Guild Wars 2

VIVorcha.7853:

Even ignoring the balance issues, the sheer number of bugs with the class (like Super Speed not actually giving double speed) and the constant unnecessary nerfs make this a less desirable option compared to other professions.

When was the last time engineers actually got a justified nerf or a significant buff?

Dude. We get it. You’re unhappy with the class.

You can stop posting now. Consider your message received.

yup, a really loud one :P

there isn’t a better way of finding out if something is good or bad than by trying it yourself things might look good(or bad) on paper and actually be the complete opposite, js

PS: Super speed is working as intended, tool-tip is misleading but it has been explained countless times how it actually works! Engineers arent as bad as a few players make it out to be, that aren’t as faceroll is a completely different issue

Phineas Poe.3018:

VIVorcha.7853:

Even ignoring the balance issues, the sheer number of bugs with the class (like Super Speed not actually giving double speed) and the constant unnecessary nerfs make this a less desirable option compared to other professions.

When was the last time engineers actually got a justified nerf or a significant buff?

Dude. We get it. You’re unhappy with the class.

You can stop posting now. Consider your message received.

Given that Arenanet has yet another unnecessary nerf for engineers incoming and no plans to fix bugs for the class, I’d say my message has not been received at all.

VIVorcha.7853:

Given that Arenanet has yet another unnecessary nerf for engineers incoming

Source?

Phineas Poe.3018:

VIVorcha.7853:

Given that Arenanet has yet another unnecessary nerf for engineers incoming

Source?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Condition-nerf-incoming

VIVorcha.7853:

Phineas Poe.3018:

VIVorcha.7853:

Given that Arenanet has yet another unnecessary nerf for engineers incoming

Source?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Condition-nerf-incoming

How is this even a definite? In the SOTG they didn’t even mention shaving Engineers it was more Necros and Rangers. But we’ll see anyway.

if you hate engineers so much can you please just go roll another class? guarantee within a month we’ll see a “The Lament of the Guardian” thread.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that Engineers are one of the best classes. Have you tried any other class? Warrior is easier to play but just as (or often more) effective. That means its better.

Our toolbelt skills are weaker than normal utility skills, our weapons aren’t that great because Arenanet wants to force us to use kits, our downed skills fail at their primary function, and 50% of our skills are useless when untraited. That’s a problem with the class, as I’ve said many, many, MANY times.

VIVorcha.7853:

Phineas Poe.3018:

VIVorcha.7853:

Given that Arenanet has yet another unnecessary nerf for engineers incoming

Source?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Condition-nerf-incoming

I don’t see an ANet post in that thread.

So I’m an idiot because I can tell the difference between conjecture and an official post?

Phineas Poe.3018:

So I’m an idiot because I can tell the difference between conjecture and an official post?

Let me be clearer: I’ve seen Jonathan Sharp’s post. But it says nothing about nerfing Engineers. Show me a red post that says we are going to be nerfed.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Phineas Poe.3018:

So I’m an idiot because I can tell the difference between conjecture and an official post?

Let me be clearer: I’ve seen Jonathan Sharp’s post. But it says nothing about nerfing Engineers. Show me a red post that says we are going to be nerfed.

Engineers are a condition class. He said that conditions were holding down classes like the warrior and they were going to “shave down” condition classes.

how could i have been so blind? obviously engineers need to be able to run two utilities in one slot! having only one and a half utilities per slot isn’t enough. obviously we need to be able to do 50k damage with every single one of our abilities untraited. and even though most top tournament teams who play with prize money on the line run an engineer, they are just a disgusting underpowered class. stupid anet. we need buffs! more buffs!

“After we shave down the condition spam classes slightly” Yeah I’d say that includes us considering we’re either doing burning or bleeding. In fact, since we’re still obviously a soldier class we’re stuck in the middle actually on everything. You can’t have a weapon without one or the other going on in this class unless you just like torturing yourself.

It’s pretty clear. Oh and I hope for heaven’s gates that they definitely keep it out of PVE because they still haven’t fixed the condition nerf they gave us a year ago before the fractal patch came out when we were all in here again talking about how bad it was (long before it was a PVE PVP separation every balance patch mind you).

VIVorcha.7853:

He said that conditions were holding down classes like the warrior and they were going to “shave down” condition classes.

And yet we have zero clue how the form of that change will take. It may affect the Engineer. It may not. They may be addressing a few specific skills or they may be toning down a condition across all classes.

The point is: we don’t know. And if you want to continue basing your argument on conjecture that’s your call, but it doesn’t make me an idiot because I won’t follow along.

ellesee.8297:

how could i have been so blind? obviously engineers need to be able to run two utilities in one slot! having only one and a half utilities per slot isn’t enough. obviously we need to be able to do 50k damage with every single one of our abilities untraited. and even though most top tournament teams who play with prize money on the line run an engineer, they are just a disgusting underpowered class. stupid anet. we need buffs! more buffs!

You neglected to mention two vital things, which, conveniently, go against the point you’re making:

1. You can’t choose the toolbelt skill. That makes it significantly less useful than it could be.
2. Our utilities are balanced on the assumption that you will also make use of the toolbelt. As such, the utility itself is not as powerful.

Also, I never said that Engineers can’t perform well under any circumstances at all.

so you think engineers perform adequately and yet you are here crying and moaning for buffs. next thread.

ellesee.8297:

so you think engineers perform adequately and yet you are here crying and moaning for buffs. next thread.

Please leave, since you clearly don’t read anything that anybody here says.

Engineers require much more effort and button mashing to get an adequate performance than any other class.

The amount of skill required should correlate with the performance you get, but Engineers don’t seem to work that way.

so essentially your reasoning for making this whine thread is that you’re too lazy to press buttons. did i get that right? the class is fine. otherwise people wouldn’t be risking prize money playing it. l2p, etc etc.

So remember that period of time last year when the only dev interaction with the engineer forum was to close threads that had gotten ugly?

Yeah, maybe we shouldn’t let that happen again. The engineer community is generally pretty helpful to each other—but we’re getting into an “anet hates us” vs. “learn to play” phase, and I just fail to see how that’s useful, even if either side has an element of truth.

VIVorcha.7853:

A more skilled player should always beat a less skilled player.

A less skilled warrior can beat a more skilled engineer.

And no. Our toolbelt is nowhere near as amazing as all the diehard Engineer fans claim it is.

Our toolbelt skills are much weaker than normal utilities. The toolbelt would actually be useful if it gave four skills that were as powerful as utilities.

So the whole thread’s purpose was for Engineer to get better results for skill; or better reward for the risk.

There’s been a lot of talk about that recently especially with builds in the PvP meta – that will soon propagate to the WvW and PvE meta – that have featured vastly lower skill floors with good reward – Spirit Rangers, Mace Warriors and Terror Necros.

In fact Terror Necros and Mace CC warriors have already made it into the WvW “stun train with Epidemic bomb” WvW zerg meta so there is that.

I’m just not sure whether buffing Engineer to lower its skill floor is the way to go

I believe that the class is cheapened and left the worse for wear whenever a low-skill, high reward build emerges. Look at the nerfs Dhuumfire received shortly after the Aetherblade/Dhuumfire patch as a result of community backlash. Necros then received nerfs to the way their life force pool worked that left the Necro community in a tizzy because they felt that their survivability that was lacking was nerfed in favour of buffs to damage, which most Necros felt were sufficient.

Would you want that happening on the Engineer class also?

Because similar things have happened to the Engineer class in the past.

When HGH builds were popularised by Ostricheggs, there was also an explosion of people using Engineers in PvP and elsewhere. This was because HGH finally offered a relatively “safe” build with boon-based survivability and DPS, whilst touting a relatively low skill floor – if you could hit your Grenades, the rest of the build is just mashing Elixirs on CD and reserving Toolbelt elixirs for condi cleanse.

(Post continued, field too long)

Enter the boon-hate patch that left HGH and Elementalists (and to a lesser extent, Guardians) out in the cold. Larcenous Strike and Corrupt Boon and to a lesser extent, Destruction of the Empowered (Warriors still could be too easily kited due to little snare mitigation). Various nerfs to Elixir S, R followed in subsequent patches to essentially make HGH Engineers a lot more vulnerable.

For elementalists, the 0/10/0/30/30 build had hits to Bountiful Power, Cantrips, RtL, and Evasive Arcana (again). Boon based mitigation and DPS is now a lot riskier than ever, because of boon hate. In fact if you have even read the Elementalist forums recently you will find that the forum there is now largely toxic because they feel that they were overnerfed in survivability whilst the Fresh Air trait that was supposed to bring in some damage was insufficient to compensate their fragility. Balanced builds like D/D can no longer be run safely because the TTK is too long before D/D eles can be condispiked and killed, or stunlocked and killed.

Arenanet seems to want to be driving towards a game where everything has a soft counter, and these are good first steps. Obviously in the case of Elementalist, there can and will be mis-steps; although in the Elementalist’s case, the mis-steps here emerged as a fundamental flaw in the trait design of the Elementalist that will take a long time to fix.

Be glad that Engineers are not in this situation right now.

Engineer is a class right now that features:

• Okay reward for skill invested
• Okay survival that is predicated on timely skill management
• Pretty good build variety because our design is such that our utilities dictate our traits and playstyle, rather than the other way around.

On the other hand, the current “meta” Warrior CC triple stance build features:

• Excellent reward to skill invested ratio (If you miss a skull crack, you don’t lose Adrenaline, so wait another 7 seconds to hit another). Most of this reward comes from the bugged Sigil of Paralyzation – something that is already slated for bugfixing.
• High active and passive defense (Signet of Healing has too much passive regen loaded into its passive, whilst triple stance offers long periods of immunity (8+ seconds) to various forms of damage (Zerker stance and Endure pain) and CC (Balanced Stance)
• Poor build variety because Cleansing Ire and Burst Mastery are too necessary not to take, and that’s 50 points already. Mace and/or Hammer are central to the build and that dictates the last 20 points.

What I’m inferring from your suggestions, VIVorcha, is for the reward aspect to be buffed to “Warrior level”, and perhaps even the skill floor lowered to “Warrior level”. I believe that the backlash against your posts stems from the fear that we will be given the Elementalist treatment, where successive nerfs will expose fundamental flaws with our Trait design that will leave us too fragile in survivability or too anaemic in DPS.

VIVorcha.7853:

ellesee.8297:

so you think engineers perform adequately and yet you are here crying and moaning for buffs. next thread.

Please leave, since you clearly don’t read anything that anybody here says.

Engineers require much more effort and button mashing to get an adequate performance than any other class.

The amount of skill required should correlate with the performance you get, but Engineers don’t seem to work that way.

Just wondering, if you’re looking for a simple straight forward easy class why are you playing engineer? whats keeping you tied to this class when u could be playing warrior or guard. they are much much easier and more “effective”

VIVorcha.7853:

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that Engineers are one of the best classes. Have you tried any other class? Warrior is easier to play but just as (or often more) effective. That means its better.

Our toolbelt skills are weaker than normal utility skills, our weapons aren’t that great because Arenanet wants to force us to use kits, our downed skills fail at their primary function, and 50% of our skills are useless when untraited. That’s a problem with the class, as I’ve said many, many, MANY times.

EDIT: My original comment was too harsh but even when I tried to come up with somewhat of a constructive argument, I could already hear your retort and I just gave up.

Two things. 1: Engineer build variety is exactly nul in PVE. Throw out all of the arguments and you’ll see that it is all zerker builds in PVE because everything else is completely useless. 2: engineers do take three times the effort to do anything. Take the AOE heal of the turret for example, you have to drop overload and then do a finisher and explode the turret before you get the same healing most classes get with simply dropping their equivalent AOE heal. I realized this while playing my Guardian yesterday. It’s seriously that imbalanced.

and before another leetist comes on here and tries to justify making a weaker class more difficult to play for the sake of making it more difficult to play let me explain something, it’s a game, we shouldn’t have to get carpel tunnel to play our class effectively nor should we have to do twelve things to the warrior/guardian/ranger/necro/elementalists 1 thing to do the same effective damage output in PVE or PVP. It’s a complete farse to even be arguing that. This class needs major work and nerfing conditions is the last thing it needs. It needs serious buffs especially in PVE.

anyway as for healing turret are you seriously going to cry about pressing two buttons for a 15 sec cooldown heal that also heals your party and removes multiple conditions and is a blast finisher and provides a water field. TWO BUTTONS kitten BUFF ENGIS

ellesee.8297:

anyway as for healing turret are you seriously going to cry about pressing two buttons for a 15 sec cooldown heal that also heals your party and removes multiple conditions and is a blast finisher and provides a water field. TWO BUTTONS kitten BUFF ENGIS

My Ranger probably would, at least in WvW (skill-lag ftw)

15 for the healing burst overcharge. Never mind hitting the 3 second firing window.

The turret itself is 20 sec recharge unless you pick it up (forgoing the blast finisher).

tigirius.9014:

Two things. 1: Engineer build variety is exactly nul in PVE. Throw out all of the arguments and you’ll see that it is all zerker builds in PVE because everything else is completely useless. 2: engineers do take three times the effort to do anything. Take the AOE heal of the turret for example, you have to drop overload and then do a finisher and explode the turret before you get the same healing most classes get with simply dropping their equivalent AOE heal. I realized this while playing my Guardian yesterday. It’s seriously that imbalanced.

and before another leetist comes on here and tries to justify making a weaker class more difficult to play for the sake of making it more difficult to play let me explain something, it’s a game, we shouldn’t have to get carpel tunnel to play our class effectively nor should we have to do twelve things to the warrior/guardian/ranger/necro/elementalists 1 thing to do the same effective damage output in PVE or PVP. It’s a complete farse to even be arguing that. This class needs major work and nerfing conditions is the last thing it needs. It needs serious buffs especially in PVE.

The problem is that if you make each individual part/kit match the other professions in performance, a good player can clear the field as he is in essence running a one man party.