Guild Wars 2

@Elaezyair:

Exactly what part do you wish to take into account?

The part where they admit to not properly staffing despite the massive initial sales? No sympathy here, you’re a business, staff appropriately.

The part where some classes are deemed more important than others, when all are incomplete or were not given their due attention to launch in a stable, working state?
Again, no sympathy, you sold it, it should be working to a minimum level of completion.

The part where he’s saying for us to be patient and wait for the next patch, regardless of our play preferences, because more fixes are coming?
Once more, it’s 3 months into the games lifespan and things are not working as they ought, and not in insignificant ways. We’re not talking balance here either, we’re talking fundamental breaks in core functions (Kits being woefully considered in current implementation is arguably a bug versus feature choice failing; by all means, choose whichever you feel is less compelling to give benefit of doubt)

I for one am sick to death of the precept that game designers or game publishers are somehow rockstar people who should be judged by different standards than those who generate and create in other fields or mediums. They are, indeed, just people and I AM sympathetic for the wealth of misery that gets visited upon them from unhappy customers over truly bizarre things.

But expecting things to work or deliver as advertised is not one of those cases and while I feel for the poor guys on the front lines, then the message of discontent and distemper must be communicated to their decision makers as a clear message that they need to allocate resources appropriately.

A-net was understaffed in support too on launch and that was a massive failing. So the excuse now for the updates and corrections is that they learned nothing and continue to under-staff game design (or by extension, code resources, to bug fix)?

By all means I’m taking those statements into account and Jon, if you are reading, I feel for you if you are critically under resourced like that, truly. I’ve been there and it’s terrible and I deeply wish you better support.

But from the point of getting the experience and satisfactory delivery for my faith and dollar as a consumer?

No one cares if you are understaffed, they care about the results provided, just like in every other business transaction they spend money for every day.

We feel sympathy for you the person, good sir, but we feel no remorse for a company that took money and failed to deliver.

At least I don’t. The opinions of others may vary.

Lol, 2 people working on class changes. I think I’ll play this game more casually then… it is still a lot of fun but it they want the game to be a success in the long run they’ll have to try harder.

No Deployable Turrets fix. WTF ANET.

Drusus.6723:

@Elaezyair:

Exactly what part do you wish to take into account?

The part where they admit to not properly staffing despite the massive initial sales? No sympathy here, you’re a business, staff appropriately.

The part where some classes are deemed more important than others, when all are incomplete or were not given their due attention to launch in a stable, working state?
Again, no sympathy, you sold it, it should be working to a minimum level of completion.

The part where he’s saying for us to be patient and wait for the next patch, regardless of our play preferences, because more fixes are coming?
Once more, it’s 3 months into the games lifespan and things are not working as they ought, and not in insignificant ways. We’re not talking balance here either, we’re talking fundamental breaks in core functions (Kits being woefully considered in current implementation is arguably a bug versus feature choice failing; by all means, choose whichever you feel is less kitten to give benefit of doubt)

I for one am sick to death of the precept that game designers or game publishers are somehow rockstar people who should be judged by different standards than those who generate and create in other fields or mediums. They are, indeed, just people and I AM sympathetic for the wealth of misery that gets visited upon them from unhappy customers over truly bizarre things.

But expecting things to work or deliver as advertised is not one of those cases and while I feel for the poor guys on the front lines, then the message of discontent and distemper must be communicated to their decision makers as a clear message that they need to allocate resources appropriately.

A-net was understaffed in support too on launch and that was a massive failing. So the excuse now for the updates and corrections is that they learned nothing and continue to under-staff game design (or by extension, code resources, to bug fix)?

By all means I’m taking those statements into account and Jon, if you are reading, I feel for you if you are critically under resourced like that, truly. I’ve been there and it’s terrible and I deeply wish you better support.

But from the point of getting the experience and satisfactory delivery for my faith and dollar as a consumer?

No one cares if you are understaffed, they care about the results provided, just like in every other business transaction they spend money for every day.

We feel sympathy for you the person, good sir, but we feel no remorse for a company that took money and failed to deliver.

At least I don’t. The opinions of others may vary.

Agreed.

I don’t care if Arenanet is understaffed, this patch is unsatisfactory on every level.

:(

trolls on the balancing team. this is a joke, right?

I had a feeling that this patch was going to be a load of crap.

The most positive change is a 2x increase on tool kits magnet ability? Are you serious? I’ve never seen a serious engineer even use the tool kit. And now that i think about it, i havn’t seen many engineers at all (/sarcasm I wonder why that is). At least maybe we could pull people off walls now.

By the way, thanks for the nerfs. That is no doubt the solution to a underpowered and underplayed class.

I’m not quite sure where this Warrior and Thief Wars 2 game is going.

Y U NO FIX MORTARS ANET??!?!?

Eleazyair.5716:

Jon Peters made this statement in the Ranger forums.

“We made the improvements we had time to test.
[…]
There are >500 skills in this game, 480 traits, and 2 designers working on this.”

Jon Peters generally doesn’t seem to be the one to blame. He’s probably trying as good as humanly possible with the manpower he has, and as a thanks he is surrounded by kitten (<-lol, nice censoring btw ;p) storms now.
ANET however badly needs to hire more game designers if this is indeed the problem behind the unsatisfactory changes/fixes.
Or at least take a break and don’t promote and put out patches this frequently if you obviously don’t have the manpower to deliver something being worth called a patch.
I’d rather have a decent patch every two months, rather than a monthly change of bandages.

Lol, all the QQ. I’m glad I never pvp.

This is a huge let down. The only build I could find that I really enjoyed and made me incredibly viable in pvp was nerfed to dust. No not only did they nerfed the grenades, but rune of the monk, rune of the water, AND elixir b boon duration nerf. All of which I used, it’s like they watched me pvp nonstop and delivered a nerf bat update just for me

I have the next 2 days off starting tomorrow. I was planning on leveling my engineer to 80 and trying to new pvp. Looks like I will be looking for a new main class.

Everything good we gets is nerfed and that’s a fact.

Lady Grey.4125:

Lol, all the QQ. I’m glad I never pvp.

Yea…forgive us for wanting to take our skills to the next level and fight an intelligent sentient opponent. But a class that is far from overpowered and has been that way for along time is nerfed over and over. Until theres1 true viable build….then they nerf that?

The whole understaffed, we didn’t have enough time, whahhh whahhh whahhh excuse is just a load of kitten kittene.

Its not the fact that they failed to fix huge fundamental gameplay flaws with the profession its the fact that they instead put there efforts into nerfing the most widely used skill.

I just don’t get the thought process!?
You sit down and say “what changes should we make to the engineer?”
“hmm well almost every Engineer seems to just use nades…”
“…you are right…and they complain tht nades are slow”
“……hmm..I know lets make them faster but also lets nerf them down”
“YAY…good idea that way it just seems like we changed them but really they are just the same…..slow but hit hard = fast but hit soft”
“But what about all the other stuff ppl complain about in Engineer forums?”
“Engineer Forums??? Who cares! All the other important professions complain about nades that is what matters”
“Yeah I mean we did just make Engineers so we could have a those 2 rows of 4 in the character creation screen”
“Of course it would have looked so stupid with 4 in one row and 3 in the other”
“yeah soooo stupid”
“We are so smart”
“Yes…we are so smart”
“Now lets go hop back on our thiefs and gank ppl”
“yeah”
“yeah”
“Jon!?”
“Yes?
“I love you”
“…..we’ll talk later”

CriSPeH.8512:

The whole understaffed, we didn’t have enough time, whahhh whahhh whahhh excuse is just a load of kitten kittene.

Its not the fact that they failed to fix huge fundamental gameplay flaws with the profession its the fact that they instead put there efforts into nerfing the most widely used skill.

I just don’t get the thought process!?
You sit down and say “what changes should we make to the engineer?”
“hmm well almost every Engineer seems to just use nades…”
“…you are right…and they complain tht nades are slow”
“……hmm..I know lets make them faster but also lets nerf them down”
“YAY…good idea that way it just seems like we changed them but really they are just the same…..slow but hit hard = fast but hit soft”
“But what about all the other stuff ppl complain about in Engineer forums?”
“Engineer Forums??? Who cares! All the other important professions complain about nades that is what matters”
“Yeah I mean we did just make Engineers so we could have a those 2 rows of 4 in the character creation screen”
“Of course it would have looked so stupid with 4 in one row and 3 in the other”
“yeah soooo stupid”
“We are so smart”
“Yes…we are so smart”
“Now lets go hop back on our thiefs and gank ppl”
“yeah”
“yeah”
“Jon!?”
“Yes?
“I love you”
“…..we’ll talk later”

Starting to believe that’s how it really went down also

Oh and I would like to thank BURNWEED for giving us that extensive list of engineer problems. I didn’t even know that much stuff was wrong, makes this issue that much worse

Chicken.7912:

Jon Peters generally doesn’t seem to be the one to blame.

The guy who brushed aside three pages of verified Necromancer bugs by claiming that the Necromancer players should just “master Death Shroud”? I’d say he’s done his share to deserve the flak he’s getting.

The saddest part about this patch is that both the Engineer and the Necromancer got rear-ended something fierce. The only two professions I play. :’(

Has anyone tried out the new speed of the nades? Is it enough to make it so we can reliably hit a moving target, or is it pretty much useless?

Shajin.5492:

Has anyone tried out the new speed of the nades? Is it enough to make it so we can reliably hit a moving target, or is it pretty much useless?

I see no difference in flight speed at all. Broke out the stopwatch and can see no change.

Engineer is getting more and more useless as much as the Arena.net team working on their own game.
Suggestion to arena.net : Why don’t you just delete few classes and just keep Warrior, Mesmer, Thief?

Wow. The mods really deleted heaps of posts in this thread. I guess they don’t want to know a certain developer is a liar?

It seems a bit insane that you cannot refer to devs who post in the forums by name. It makes 0 sense.

For PvP, engineers were not nerfed nearly as much as the other two viable bunker professions (well, they weren’t actually nerfed—just some very advantageous bugs got fixed). Since bunkers have been causing problems recently, my guess is that Anet wanted to prevent all the guard + ele players from just hopping on to the next best bunker. FoTM is bad.

I think everyone was expecting a buff, and instead there were just bug fixes, which were much more necessary. It will take maybe three more patches this size before the rest of the bugs are fixed, and only then will they be able to consider buffing the profession in general.

Might have to start taking toolkit over flamethrower now…crazy. Very few people use grenades in PvP, so that one made me scratch my head. The nerf to Elixer R was probably necessary, since there are very few skills that can do stuff like that and they’re all on long CDs—but it makes it even less likely that I’ll ever take it.

Stumbled across an interesting quirk just now.

Patch notes say:

• Bomb Kit, Med Kit, Tool Kit, and Elixir Gun: These skills can now be equipped in the air.
• All kits can be stowed in the air now.

This is partially correct. You can stow kits in the air by using the kit’s secondary ability called “Stow ____ Kit.”

There’s a bit of a problem, though:

• Med Kit’s “Stow Med Kit” ability still doesn’t work – it just re-equips Med Kit.
• The “Drop bundle” hotkey (weapon swap) stows current active kit and switches to your weapon.
• The “Drop bundle” button’s effect was not fixed in the patch and still provides the error message “You cannot drop bundles while in the air!”
• You cannot stow the Med Kit in the air unless you switch to another kit.

Oh and tested, Elixir S is still broken and not fixed. Reads as 48s but on use still get the 60s cool down.

CriSPeH.8512:

The whole understaffed, we didn’t have enough time, whahhh whahhh whahhh excuse is just a load of kitten kittene.

Its not the fact that they failed to fix huge fundamental gameplay flaws with the profession its the fact that they instead put there efforts into nerfing the most widely used skill.

I just don’t get the thought process!?
You sit down and say “what changes should we make to the engineer?”
“hmm well almost every Engineer seems to just use nades…”
“…you are right…and they complain tht nades are slow”
“……hmm..I know lets make them faster but also lets nerf them down”
“YAY…good idea that way it just seems like we changed them but really they are just the same…..slow but hit hard = fast but hit soft”
“But what about all the other stuff ppl complain about in Engineer forums?”
“Engineer Forums??? Who cares! All the other important professions complain about nades that is what matters”
“Yeah I mean we did just make Engineers so we could have a those 2 rows of 4 in the character creation screen”
“Of course it would have looked so stupid with 4 in one row and 3 in the other”
“yeah soooo stupid”
“We are so smart”
“Yes…we are so smart”
“Now lets go hop back on our thiefs and gank ppl”
“yeah”
“yeah”
“Jon!?”
“Yes?
“I love you”
“…..we’ll talk later”

+1
i think i heard that conversation aswell . . . in a bad dream . . .
lol nice job anet . . now i gotta use 25gb to reinstall deleted games cos i thought this would be awesome. . . [shakes dust off smuggler and evie]
i’ll still play the game just dont expect me to buy any gems

This truly bothers me because I was such a monster with grenades in pvp. They were my main source of damage and I could go in on moving targets all day long. Like stated in this thread not many use them in pvp, people say they are only for stationary targets. But they forget that some people are good enough to truly bring out their potential, something I noticed so few used in pvp, and took such great pride in. Thank you ANET, for taking a rather large dump on my dreams

buff
nerf
buff
fix
buff
buff
buff
nerf
nerf
nerf
nerf
fix
nerf
buff
buff
buff
fix
huh?
fix
huh?
buff
fix
fix
fix
huh?
nerf
5 who cares

Great, I saw much good fixes. Greandes become faster that’s good, and damage deacreased in pvp(regime, how i think they meant) .

Tool kit: magnet+shield – good. But it also not very useful, if the toughness incresed with wearing that kit it would be better, give him that shield held always in left hand and it would be +Armor! Why not?

Also it would be better for some buffs during wearing different kits, like boon duaration and heasling power for Elixir Gun, Med Kit, and posibillity to retrieve friends faster. And other.

Didn’t understand everything about buffs, but trait drink of Elixir R is really fixed, i saw it already while playing in pve. It didn’t work at all before.

But the Flamethrower could be better if it has fixed sight of fire, if i pull camera at high level I MISS ALL the damage to the target, that was redicilous.

I have mixed feelings after this patch, but didn’t see much of nerfs or buffs of the pro.

P.S. Thank u for u still working on the game. I wish u cool mind and great health)

Vabbi)

i loled hard on this patchnotes and i said it before no stats on kits, so Anet do not listen to the player it is a pitty and again the nerf bat hit the Engi great work Anet!

Before the patch i was hoping to begin playing more on my engineer with the Commander dorito whom i was only playing during guildevents due to the fact that the class was borked. Im not interested in the other classes and i had high hopes for the 30+ fixes to the class, right now after the relase of the fix i can say that im going to be playing the same or less amount of hours of GuildWars 2. Im not interested in the content stuff like Halloween,New Shore kitten or the incomming Christmas patch where we will get gingerbread cookies and milk + new gem outfit as elves and santas. No i was interested in a bugfix and in a buff overall of the class : Engineer.

I think i will just do what i did before and wait and watch, do the events for the community im in and hopefully there will be a better game on the horison that i can look forward too.

Thanks.

Tbh this was a fairly balanced change.

Grenades in spvp move faster, which decreases spread at all ranges btw. This was needed and useful. This combined with grenade barrage being fixed/buffed to work with grenadier puts at grenades at a net buff in spvp. Remember that with rifle out, grenade barrage scales with rifle stats/sigils.
Grenades recieved no nerfs in wvw/pve at all, only buffs.

toolkit changes
Magnet: Now quite useful in wvw.
Gear shield: 1 second of added block, good.

Smoke bomb: Reduced aoe. Meh, it was only ever good in melee range anyway. Went from 4 blinds over 3 seconds to 3 blinds over 4 seconds. This one could go either way tbh as blind doesn’t benefit from being over-applied. If it was a nerf, it was a pretty dam light nerf.

Toss Elixir-R. Meh, this was the only real nerf tbh. Elixir R is still our best stunbreaker so w/e.

All of the other changes were neither here nor there and fairly worthless to boot. Elixir S is still bugged, even though they said they fixed it. Go figure.

3 blinds over 6 seconds.

Elixir R was doubly nerfed in the nerf to downed state health and the cooldown nerf. The stun break is still amazing, sure, but the throw is nearly worthless for rezzing now.

Grenades aren’t as massive a deal. It was just a big kitten YOU, especially now that we’re dealing more damage to ourselves from retal from each grenade with both carrion/rabid. It was unexpected and not needed in any way.

All in all I feel like roaming engis outside of extremely niche builds are a thing of the past now. We’re now forced into a support role when the meta is going to QUICKLY swing towards burst DPS (because of the downed state health nerf).

Dark days. After 1700 games on the engi I gotta hang up my rifle and roll something else. We aren’t viable roamers and are sub-par support

Faster greandes, thats a buff then you have the damage nerf…. the faster grenades is a buff for spvp and because damage was not nerfed in WvW/PvE is was a very nice buff.

Spvp alot of skills and classes had damage nerfs and tanking nerfs. With the Guardian bunker bug/exploit fixes and Eles super heal mode nerfed Engineers just moved up a great deal they were good bunkers before might be top dog now.

Calm down. Read what happened to the other classes it was a good balance patch.

Ostricheggs.3742:

3 blinds over 6 seconds.

Elixir R was doubly nerfed in the nerf to downed state health and the cooldown nerf. The stun break is still amazing, sure, but the throw is nearly worthless for rezzing now.

Grenades aren’t as massive a deal. It was just a big kitten YOU, especially now that we’re dealing more damage to ourselves from retal from each grenade with both carrion/rabid. It was unexpected and not needed in any way.

All in all I feel like roaming engis outside of extremely niche builds are a thing of the past now. We’re now forced into a support role when the meta is going to QUICKLY swing towards burst DPS (because of the downed state health nerf).

Dark days. After 1700 games on the engi I gotta hang up my rifle and roll something else. We aren’t viable roamers and are sub-par support

Nope, read it again:
Smoke Bomb: This skill’s radius has been reduced to 180 from 240 when traited. Smoke Bomb is now active for 4 seconds, pulsing every 2. This change also affects the Autodefense Bomb Dispenser trait.

Blind tick at 0 (when bomb detonates), tick at 2, tick at 4.
Compare to pre-nerf:
tick at 0, tick at 1, tick at 2, tick at 3.
If overlap happened in pre-nerf (and overlaps did happen if you were kiting a melee) you would effectivley loose a tick.

Grenades were only “nerfed” in spvp, where they were pretty bad at high level play anyway. They werent really nerfed though, they were changed to have a higher speed == tighter grouping and easier to hit. Grenade barrage burst was buffed everywhere. In wvw and pve grenades were buffed only. Seeing as the main arena for grenades was wvw, I see this as a net buff.

Honestly, bunker engis (which are based mostly around knockdowns anyway) are almost exactly as viable as they were pre-patch.. We didn’t get hit nearly as bad as bunker eles. Engi roamers in wvw got buffed straight up through changes in grenade kit and tool kit.

they should post these patch notes on the screen before choosing class in character creation, there would be much less work on the class, because nobody would play it.

to whomever, who states that granades nerf for pvp was actually a buff – first you have to play pvp to be able to state something, your opinion in that regard is worthless otherwise. Players are not mobs, they move, dodge, jump, block, and Anet made this skill from hard to hit into not even worth hitting, cause of the smaller dmg.

Saw the engineer notes ==> Rerolled thief for pvp. Soon there will be only Warriors and thieves running around pvp, seems like it’s one of Anet’s goals.

Xplosiv.1502:

they should post these patch notes on the screen before choosing class in character creation, there would be much less work on the class, because nobody would play it.

to whomever, who states that granades nerf for pvp was actually a buff – first you have to play pvp to be able to state something, your opinion in that regard is worthless otherwise. Players are not mobs, they move, dodge, jump, block, and Anet made this skill from hard to hit into not even worth hitting, cause of the smaller dmg.

Saw the engineer notes ==> Rerolled thief for pvp. Soon there will be only Warriors and thieves running around pvp, seems like it’s one of Anet’s goals.

First of all, most engineers in high level tournaments don’t even use grenades. They use bunker builds. To use your own words: ‘you have to play pvp to be able to state something’ — you obviously don’t.

Second, most glass cannon grenade builds (which no one uses in tournaments btw) could do in excess of 1880 damage/grenade toss. Now they do 1700 damage/toss. Here’s the icing on the cake. They buffed grenade barrage, so your burst damage (which is what counts) goes up. And since grenade barrage actually works with weapon stats/sigils, the buffed grenade barrage can do even more damage. You really should take your own advice on this one.

30 bullet points announced for the inge….and we get this?!

Great.. Our class wasn’t top-notch, but basically we got nerfed!
Where is the flamthrower fix? Weaponstats? Traits?
No lets increase the cd of throw elixer R…

Great.. Our class wasn’t top-notch, but basically we got nerfed!
Where is the flamthrower fix? Weaponstats? Traits?
No lets increase the cd of throw elixer R…Arenanet, I expected so much from you. You brought this great game, and now you just do no care about it anymore? Does nobody of the devs play engineer? Is that the problem? And if that’s not, tells us what is!

It seems to have become a pattern in Anet’s way of communication towards the players in that they act very excited and start boasting about the things to come and then it turns out that what they’re actually introducing is …. meh. Or bad. Or just besides the point. Like in this case: “OMG, you guize, we have 30 bullet points of changes to your engineer profession!” And then, come patch day, it turns out that the changes are just completely useless.

I mean, these engineer patches are bland. Bland bland blandy McBlanderson. If there was a Blandsville, these patch notes would be its mayor. If there was a brand of Bland, these patch notes would be in all its advertisements. If you look up bland in the dictionary, these patch notes would be given as an example.

I am quite disappoint.

I don’t see this as big nerf guys, and i exclusively play WvW on my Engi. Yes grenades damage got nerfed, but the speed got buffed which make it a more reliable option in any type of PvP. I would much rather hit my target more, then do more damage if i hit. The Tool Kit buffs also help. 3 sec of block is nothing to laugh at, and now with the 1,200 range pull we can easily get people out of position.

I don’t really see a increase or decrease in our effectiveness. All in all it was a bug fixing patch.

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Tbh this was a fairly balanced change.

Grenades in spvp move faster, which decreases spread at all ranges btw. This was needed and useful. This combined with grenade barrage being fixed/buffed to work with grenadier puts at grenades at a net buff in spvp. Remember that with rifle out, grenade barrage scales with rifle stats/sigils.
Grenades recieved no nerfs in wvw/pve at all, only buffs.

toolkit changes
Magnet: Now quite useful in wvw.
Gear shield: 1 second of added block, good.

Smoke bomb: Reduced aoe. Meh, it was only ever good in melee range anyway. Went from 4 blinds over 3 seconds to 3 blinds over 4 seconds. This one could go either way tbh as blind doesn’t benefit from being over-applied. If it was a nerf, it was a pretty dam light nerf.

Toss Elixir-R. Meh, this was the only real nerf tbh. Elixir R is still our best stunbreaker so w/e.

All of the other changes were neither here nor there and fairly worthless to boot. Elixir S is still bugged, even though they said they fixed it. Go figure.

Anyone trying to claim grenades were buffed is completely uninformed.

Faster grenades. I broke out the stopwatch. Can not tell a difference. (in fact, I was getting slower numbers. Seem to remember timing at 1.5s air time for 1500 range. clocked at 1.7-1.8 now. I’ll admit, human error is a possibility here). But frankly 10-15% of 1.5s is .15-.22 of a second.
Human reaction time is 2-4ms. Even if true, this is a completely negligible change. It will make no difference in landing or missing grenades. especially at closer 100-900 range.

Grenade barrage already was throwing 8 grenades with grenadier. that is a tooltip fix, not a buff. It did get a range buff. although due to spread, you do not want to be throwing it at max range.

Damage was nerfed… it deserved it… but it was done completely wrong.
Grenade damage was nerfed directly. Grenadier wasn’t nerfed. Grenadier was the problem. The vul stacking was the problem.

Grenades without grenadier are now completely useless. this is a giant problem in engineer design. we have all these kits, but they suck without traiting for them. You CAN’T run grenades, flamethower, elixir R.
We have LESS versatility then other professions because our traits are so specific, with a few key super strong traits.

grenade damage was indirectly nerfed in pve/wvw due to legendary/ascended weapon buff as well. Granted, this was reverted. but it still coming. We now have have an expiration date if kits are not fixed fast. flamethrower is already unusable due to poor base damage. EG is marginal.