Guild Wars 2

Every MMO seems to get to this – some classes get no attention from the devs for years and years. It seems like the Engineer is becoming one of those.

We’ve got a huge number of potential builds, but only one or two that are actually viable, particularly for WvW and PvP. Some of our skills are completely redundant (e.g. turrets and turret traits) and require an overhaul to make them into real options.

We’ve got issues that go back months and months, even with acknowlegement from the devs, but have had no attention, just a vague “we want to address this in the future” platitude.

I know every class has issues, but it’s really starting to seem that a combination of being underplayed and being okay-ish in PvE is making the devs look the other way. I would like to see us truly viable in sPvP on a few different specs.

I’d say rangers have it just as bad, if not worse.

Cribbage.2056:

I would like to see us truly viable in sPvP on a few different specs.

Is this an Engineer specific issue, though?

Pretty much every class is whittled down to one or two builds when it comes to tournament PvP. And when it comes to hotjoins, I think Engineers have more options than most other classes.

I personally think Engineers aren’t so bad at all. They are a lot of fun and can be used in various ways in non-high rated matches (let’s be honest, most of us aren’t playing at the level of the top 5 %).

Compared with Elementalists they are actually very strong if you ask me…

On top of that Engineers are just a lot of fun and not overplayed like other professions ^^

I think the more you play a particular class the more you start to see the cracks in it’s balance.

While the Engineer definitely has quite a few, no other class is free of there own.
At least in the broad sense, balance is quite close in this game.
There are many potential builds that just aren’t up to par at the moment, but at least every class has a few builds that are!

My point, after all that, is basically to keep posting about the flaws you do find but be prepared to wait it out, because while it may look like we have it worse from this side of the fence, they are saying just the same thing over in the other forums and they can’t fix everything at once haha

Oh, Also, as far as PvE is concerned, I believe that there will always be a significant imbalance in build efficacy while PvE remains so simple (basically a DPS race).
Until PvE is afforded some updates in it’s complexity, PvP will be the only mode with decent build diversity.
There have been some great discussions on this topic and I’m sure the devs are looking into it. Plus, the recent dungeons have been getting better and better in my opinion, so there is certainly room for hope!

Cribbage.2056:

Every MMO seems to get to this – some classes get no attention from the devs for years and years. It seems like the Engineer is becoming one of those.

We’ve got a huge number of potential builds, but only one or two that are actually viable, particularly for WvW and PvP. Some of our skills are completely redundant (e.g. turrets and turret traits) and require an overhaul to make them into real options.

If you look back through the last year’s patch notes, you’ll see that engineers have gotten a lot of attention. It can often look negative because broken things are often prioritized from the advantageous down; i.e. when super elixir was bugged and healed for four times as much as it should have, that was something that obviously needed to be fixed quickly. On the other hand, turrets are broken in multiple ways, but not in ruining balance ways. Yes, they should be fixed, but it’s understandable that other issues have come first.

Engineer does have tournament-viable builds, probably at least 3. However, those builds have very high skill floors, so it often appears that none of the engineer’s builds are up to par.

I think the most important thing is to lobby Anet for reasonable fixes/changes. We have so many threads that are like “rebuild engineers from the ground up!” which obviously is not going to happen. The hobosack rally is a great example—people are getting together to lobby for one simple fix that’s important to them.

Partially I´m happy that engineer doesnt get as much attention as other classes.
What happened to the classes who got Anet´s attention? They either got nerfed or overbuffed.
The only kind of attention I´d like to have is for some bugs.
Turret-bugs, of course. The pathing of Static Discharge… (Both ruin the build I´d love to play :P )

I understand that there are issues that are way more grave in terms of balance.
But just as the majority I´m a bit egoistic and I´d love to see more bugfixes to my dear engineer

In terms of pvp-viability and build-variety I think that engineers are fine. After all we got at least 3 viable pvp-builds (which I admit that most of them take a good amount of know-how).
I think we can at least say that we have more builds than most other classes xD

Are you kidding me? I dont want more attention from the devs. When they pay attention to us, all they do is hamfisted nerfing.

Devs havent payed attention to us for the past months. Notice how the number of nerfs and destroyed builds went down dramatically?

I agree that balance issues in this game are relatively close, and I also agree that most classes have some unviable specs (not stupid specs, ones which should work but are just kitten).

Maybe my thinking is coloured by the break I took. I was playing Engineer pretty much from launch. I finally got to a spec I could make work in tPvP, but got a bit bored with the lack of tpvp variety and took a break. When I came back only one thing had changed substantially with the class – they changed Kit Refinement so that it no longer cast Super Elixir – in effect making my EG spec much more vulnerable to condition spec (75% of PvPers in other words).

So during my 8 month break the class went backwards. I couldn’t find a single positive change.

In the mean time, Necros had been fixed. Rangers and Eles were actually given a major overhaul just before I left. Thieves, Mesmers and Guardians were always OK (or OP depending on who you ask). Warriors I don’t know about.

But that leaves me feeling like we are the poor relation.

Actually, rangers have still been getting nerfed. They were only buffed a few times, and those were insignificant.
The main issue -pets- is still there. Until they fix that, they’re the only class hindered by their mechanic.

Snack.9315:

Actually, rangers have still been getting nerfed. They were only buffed a few times, and those were insignificant.
The main issue -pets- is still there. Until they fix that, they’re the only class hindered by their mechanic.

Thanks for you Feedback Snack, but your princess is in another castle.

actually, youre thinking of rangers. engie is at least fun to play. for example, ranger has NO viable builds for higher tier WvW.

mistsim.2748:

actually, youre thinking of rangers. engie is at least fun to play. for example, ranger has NO viable builds for higher tier WvW.

Which makes it sad how many people play them. They just want to have fun too.

I’ve already left GW2 for reasons loosely based on the uselessness of engineers. Grass is much greener over at Rift atm, but who knows what might happen in the future.

mistsim.2748:

actually, youre thinking of rangers. engie is at least fun to play. for example, ranger has NO viable builds for higher tier WvW.

Rangers are insanely fun to play. Engineers have some viable builds but are a chore to play, especially with the lame mechanic they got.

VIVorcha.7853:

mistsim.2748:

actually, youre thinking of rangers. engie is at least fun to play. for example, ranger has NO viable builds for higher tier WvW.

Rangers are insanely fun to play. Engineers have some viable builds but are a chore to play, especially with the lame mechanic they got.

got a little over 1k hours on my ranger plus a handful of guides and stuff, so id know a thing or two about that. but that doesnt change the fact the ranger is bottom of the barrell in wvw.

Iarkrad.8415:

I’ve already left GW2 for reasons loosely based on the uselessness of engineers. Grass is much greener over at Rift atm, but who knows what might happen in the future.

Complains about engineers, left the game before getting good at one

ukuni.8745:

Iarkrad.8415:

I’ve already left GW2 for reasons loosely based on the uselessness of engineers. Grass is much greener over at Rift atm, but who knows what might happen in the future.

Complains about engineers, left the game before getting good at one

This is an empty statement.

People who are bad can do quite well on other professions. I’m not a good Thief, i still do pretty kitten good when i play mine in WvW. Its called a crutch.

Having a profession require a much greater deal of experience aswell as mastery in order to rival a profession that can be played with noticeable less is unbalanced. And that is an issue.

Terrahero.9358:

ukuni.8745:

Iarkrad.8415:

I’ve already left GW2 for reasons loosely based on the uselessness of engineers. Grass is much greener over at Rift atm, but who knows what might happen in the future.

Complains about engineers, left the game before getting good at one

This is an empty statement.

People who are bad can do quite well on other professions. I’m not a good Thief, i still do pretty kitten good when i play mine in WvW. Its called a crutch.

Having a profession require a much greater deal of experience aswell as mastery in order to rival a profession that can be played with noticeable less is unbalanced. And that is an issue.

I see no reason why i should go through so much trouble for the engineer (which remains my favorite class) when ANet obviously isn’t. The engineer can be good and some things, but it almost always can be beaten by at least one class in every possible task. I do not PvP and i do not appreciate being discriminated against in WvW and dungeons. When the engineer is considered more equal to the other professions (including Warrior) in pve/wvw, i will start playing GW2 again.

Rangers and Thieves are far worse off than is the Engineer.

Swagg.9236:

Rangers and Thieves are far worse off than is the Engineer.

Thieves?

I’ll have two of whatever you’re smoking.

VIVorcha.7853:

Swagg.9236:

Rangers and Thieves are far worse off than is the Engineer.

Thieves?

I’ll have two of whatever you’re smoking.

Thieves are a garbage class. They’re a pile of sticks (straightforward and uninteresting skills) held together by glue (stealth) and sold as a house. It’s trash design. At least other classes have interesting utility. Thieves have stealth. Yes, it is a broken mechanic, but it’s ALL THEY HAVE. They are garbage. Trust me, I play [Bomb Kit].

The Engineer really is not that bad of a class. I don’t know what’s with the last few months and the engineer forum having this whole “we’re being picked on!” thing going on… but the class is fairly solid.

I mean, not Guardian/Warrior solid… but pretty solid.

Swagg.9236:

VIVorcha.7853:

Swagg.9236:

Rangers and Thieves are far worse off than is the Engineer.

Thieves?

I’ll have two of whatever you’re smoking.

Thieves are a garbage class. They’re a pile of sticks (straightforward and uninteresting skills) held together by glue (stealth) and sold as a house. It’s trash design. At least other classes have interesting utility. Thieves have stealth. Yes, it is a broken mechanic, but it’s ALL THEY HAVE. They are garbage. Trust me, I play [Bomb Kit].

They have possibly the best burst damage in the game available, and they can disengage a fight whenever they choose by stealthing and shadowstepping away.

Kirschwasser.3972:

The Engineer really is not that bad of a class. I don’t know what’s with the last few months and the engineer forum having this whole “we’re being picked on!” thing going on… but the class is fairly solid.

I mean, not Guardian/Warrior solid… but pretty solid.

Yup, we just have to jump through hoops to compete. I kinda wish we could at least get some decent condi removal outside of Elixers. Hell, throw it on an Elixer gun trait for fumigate or something.

My Guardian girlfriend just discovered the Engineer traitlines, and looked at the skills.

This is hilarious.

Anymras.5729:

My Guardian girlfriend just discovered the Engineer traitlines, and looked at the skills.

This is hilarious.

My girlfriend rolled her first Engineer alt last week. Used the scroll to boost to lv20, picked up a nice looking pistol and used a spare backslot skin she had left.

After 5min she asked me if its normal that she couldnt see her back or rifle half the time.
Poor thing.

Welp. I’d link you guys to the thread she made, but apparently it was considered ‘disrespectful or rude’ by the moderation staff kittens.

Funny story: She said nothing worse than anything we say in here, and she said it far more courteously than we typically do.

Terrahero.9358:

Anymras.5729:

My Guardian girlfriend just discovered the Engineer traitlines, and looked at the skills.

This is hilarious.

My girlfriend rolled her first Engineer alt last week. Used the scroll to boost to lv20, picked up a nice looking pistol and used a spare backslot skin she had left.

After 5min she asked me if its normal that she couldnt see her back or rifle half the time.
Poor thing.

Yeah well my girlfriend….well…screw you guys

Cribbage.2056:

Every MMO seems to get to this – some classes get no attention from the devs for years and years. It seems like the Engineer is becoming one of those.

Really?

Do you realize how many times the engineer has been improved with either a bug fix or a straight up buff?

I was going to make a list for you copied and pasted from the patch notes archived on the wiki but I couldn’t because it was 114 entries long and had too many characters for a post on this forum.

114 times since the game launched engineers have been improved by either a bug fix or a straight-up buff. And I didn’t count tooltip fixes, either. That’s all actual changes to engineer skills or traits. I also didn’t count skills that got revamped but not necessarily buffed, like Elixir U and Napalm Specialist.

Sure, some of them weren’t important (who really cares if Inertial Converter works with toss elixir skills underwater?) and some weren’t adequate to really make skills useful (Thumper Turret still sucks even after buffing the base skill and the toolbelt skill twice each) but they still happened. And some of the changes were pretty huge, like letting sigils work with kits and revamping Jump Shot and Rocket Boots. This “class they left behind” has been receiving beneficial changes at a rate of almost 10 per month since the game launched.

Now obviously, as an engineer player I’ve got my own list of pet peeves that I wish Arenanet would get to faster, but claiming that they have somehow been neglecting the engineer class is absurd.

Maybe that list would be considerably shorter if the duplicated were removed. for example they added a projectile finisher to the Harpoongun abilities, two patches in a row.

And tooltip fixes, those make up a lot aswell.

Dont forget about the stuff that was fixed, but reeeaaallly shouldve been fixed before the game even went live.

Did you cross out all the nerfs already? I hope you did, those would make up the majority of the bulletpoints.

And lets not forget all the redundant changes like “we added a range indicator to Box o Nails”. And, well.. never actually worked. Or other such pointless nonsense that just fills up bulletpoints for the sake of making it look like stuff was done. Like informing us that the change to Rampaging Brute also made it over to Elixir X.

Or the stuff they fixed two or even three times because they kept breaking it over and over.

I think you’ll end up with a considerably shorter list.

VIVorcha.7853:

mistsim.2748:

actually, youre thinking of rangers. engie is at least fun to play. for example, ranger has NO viable builds for higher tier WvW.

Rangers are insanely fun to play. Engineers have some viable builds but are a chore to play, especially with the lame mechanic they got.

I have fallen asleep at the keyboard playing Ranger, the skill floor of it is so low and the autos so strong that I can literally 1 spam things to death. I will say that GS is great fun though.

I guess it’s… refreshing? To have something so easy? I don’t know. I just can’t get over playing Double or Triple or even quadruple kit and having so many options available at hand. Playing with my friends, I will almost always be the last one to go down in Dungeons and WvW – and I often play without stunbreaks or strong condi clear or any access to Stability.

But yeah. To say that Engineer gets no attention is kind of facetious.

Elementalist is still waiting over 12 months after launch to finally get buffs to 2/4 attunements for the Focus; whilst their Glyphs, Conjures and Signets remain almost universally awful; and Arcane skills are little more than off-GCD damage bonuses. They have received nerf after nerf (bug fixes almost universally nerf Elementalist) to the point where Ele is almost too squishy and too anaemic in DPS without gimmicks like Lightning Hammer in PvE, or abuse of invuln frames from Focus to kill or be killed in a S/F Zerker glass cannon that burns 40 second utilities to initiate burst in PvP.

Engineer in contrast is “merely” waiting on Turrets and Gadgets to come to the fore, and junk traits to be reworked. We have had Juggernaut and Coated bullets be moved down in tiers, Stunbreaks shuffled out of Elixirs to other categories that lack it, and Rocket Boots reworked to actually be good. All I’m waiting on is a few QoL changes to Mainhand Weapons, bugfixes to Static Discharge to improve build variety for it, and QoL to Bomb Kit to make Forceful Explosives less mandatory.

I’d say that Elementalist is the class that’s been left behind; although the patch preview brings me some hope that I can use Staff without having to bring triple stunbreaks, and brings the possibility of using Conjures other than LH without killing myself.

Terrahero.9358:

Maybe that list would be considerably shorter if the duplicated were removed. for example they added a projectile finisher to the Harpoongun abilities, two patches in a row.

And tooltip fixes, those make up a lot aswell.

Dont forget about the stuff that was fixed, but reeeaaallly shouldve been fixed before the game even went live.

Did you cross out all the nerfs already? I hope you did, those would make up the majority of the bulletpoints.

And lets not forget all the redundant changes like “we added a range indicator to Box o Nails”. And, well.. never actually worked. Or other such pointless nonsense that just fills up bulletpoints for the sake of making it look like stuff was done. Like informing us that the change to Rampaging Brute also made it over to Elixir X.

Or the stuff they fixed two or even three times because they kept breaking it over and over.

I think you’ll end up with a considerably shorter list.

Every classes list would be considerably shorter given those qualifications. Quit playing a violin for your class and just take comfort that you’re not the ranger or Necro (in PvE, anyways)

I hope this teaser helps cheer everyone up this is what i would look like with a hammer and not just any hammer but entropy keep your heads up we got something to look forward to !

and for the second photo forgot this one

Terrahero.9358:

Maybe that list would be considerably shorter if the duplicated were removed. for example they added a projectile finisher to the Harpoongun abilities, two patches in a row.

And tooltip fixes, those make up a lot aswell.

Dont forget about the stuff that was fixed, but reeeaaallly shouldve been fixed before the game even went live.

Did you cross out all the nerfs already? I hope you did, those would make up the majority of the bulletpoints.

And lets not forget all the redundant changes like “we added a range indicator to Box o Nails”.

I specifically said in my post I didn’t count any of those things.

There have been 114 beneficial changes to the engineer, in the form of either bug fixes or buffs, since the game went live.

It is understandably frustrating that the engineer is weak in the current meta-game of warriors and necromancers where each fulfills any role that a power or condition engineer could achieve but better (and arguably easier… When was the last time you’ve heard a stun warrior say he was counting your cool-downs? When was the last time you’ve seen a necromancer saving his condition burst for after your condition removal?) . However, we have received attention – perhaps too much attention in the form of unwanted and often misguided changes, most recently in kit refinement. (Removed/Nerfed due to a Photoshopped screenshot.)

We are hardly the class that has been left behind by the game, but we are certainly the class that is least understood by the developers as detailed by the upcoming October changes where power engineers are purely static discharge – rifle turret when there are more efficient and well rounded builds. Reducing to the lowest common denominator and balancing around our old meta-builds will only decrease future build variety and stagnate the view that the profession is sub-par until new weapons, traits and utility skills are introduced- one could hope that this comes soon.

Ok, here’s your list:

Bug fixes: 35

Grenade Barrage underwater
Kit Stowing bug
Grenadier underwater
Short Fuse with Grenadier
Fixed having to double click Elixir X
Elixir S with Fast Acting Elixirs
Grenade Barrage works with Grenadier
Fumigate made cancellable
Rocket Turret can detonate underwater
Hair Trigger didn’t work with some pistol skills
Reinforced Shield reduces cooldown of Static Shield
Speedy Gadgets works with Throw Mine
Toss Elixir S no longer removes transforms
Deployable Turrets works with all turrets
Super Elixir works underwater
Packaged Stimulants fixed to not increase cooldowns
Forceful Explosives works with Evasive Powder Keg
Fireforged Trigger works with all Elixir Gun skills
Throw Mine resets properly if it times out
Automated Response works against attackers with over 100% condition duration
Deployable Turrets doesn’t increase Flame Turret cooldown
Fixed issues with mines detonating at the wrong time
Steel Packed Powder works with turret detonations
Short Fuse works with all skills underwater
Inertial Converter works with all skills underwater
Rocket Kick range corrected
Harpoon Turret works with Deployable Turrets
Fire Bomb and Smoke Bomb don’t cancel if you jump
Metal Plating and Autotool Installation always work
Jump Shot works with Rifled Barrels
Grenade Kit doesn’t remove itself after 6 minutes
Elixir C removes torment
Elite Supplies doesn’t increase Mortar cooldown
Toss Elixir U works with Acidic Elixirs
Rifled Barrels works with the Elixir Gun underwater

Cooldown reductions: 18

Mine Field
Toss Elixir C underwater
Rocket Turret
Net Attack
Flame Turret
Throw Napalm
Cleansing Burst
Regenerating Mist
Elixir U
Elixir X
Harpoon
Rumble
Personal Battering Ram
Launch Personal Battering Ram
Analyze
Rocket
Launch Ice Mortar
Autodefense Bomb Dispenser

Damage increases: 7

Rifle Turret overcharge
Thumper Turret overcharge
Thumper Turret base attack damage increase and also cripples
Rumble
Rifle Turret base attack
Surprise Shot
Harpoon

Other Buffs: 42

Throw Mine made unblockable
Big Ol’ Bomb made blast finisher
Elixir X works with Potent Elixirs
Mortar works with Rifled Turret Barrels
Gear Shield duration increased
Magnet range increased
Net Turret overcharge projectile speed increased
Grenade skills projectile speed increased
Power Wrench reduces Tool Kit cooldowns
Elixir B might duration increased
Projectile finishers added to all harpoon gun skills
Direct damage added to Flash Grenade and Poison Grenade
Bleed added to Retreating Grapple
Burn added to Timed Charge
Projectile finisher added to Grappling Line
Power Shoes effect increased to 25%
Always Prepared also increases downed damage
Sitting Duck applies vulnerability
Shrapnel activation chance increased to 15%
Acid Bomb made a blast finisher
Super Elixir healing increased
Manual detonation added for Flame Blast
Air Blast increases burn duration
Flame Jet deals extra damage to burning targets
Pry Bar inflicts more confusion for longer duration
Tool Kit turret healing abilities doubled in strength
Elixir U made instant cast and breaks stuns
Net Turret health increased
Flame Turret attack arc increased
Grenade Kit skills no longer require line of sight
Healing Turret radius increased
Throw Napalm burn duration increased
Super Speed breaks stun
Backpack Regenerator scales with healing power
Knee Shot and Sitting Duck merged
Juggernaut reduced to master
Coated Bullets reduced to master
Fireforged Trigger reduced to adept
Elite Supplies improves Mortar range and effects all Mortar cooldowns
Packaged Stimulants improves Med Kit skill healing and duration by 25%
Leg Mods no longer requires a kit equipped
Acidic Elixirs now removes boons

QoL upgrades and skill revamps that were general buffs: 12

Stowing and equiping kits in mid air allowed
Kit autoattacks enabled
Sigils work with kits
Kits upgraded to exotic base damage
Juggernaut revamped
Stabilized Armor revamped
Acidic Coating revamped
Jump Shot revamped
Modified Ammunition added
Rocket Boots revamped
Rampage revamped (effects engineers via Elixir X)
Armor Mods revamped

No nerfs, no tooltip fixes. 114 actual improvements to the engineer profession.

Stice.5204:

No nerfs, no tooltip fixes. 114 actual improvements to the engineer profession.

Thanks for putting that together! I was too lazy to actually prove to people that engineers are not forgotten. Engineer is a fun, demanding, rewarding profession that still has some bugs/issues, but has come a long way.

Engineers seem to be in a pretty good place. One of the reasons I’ve started leveling one is because I’ve seen a lot of people play completely different builds that all work fairly well. My current main is a thief and it’s been getting whined at for over a year now, so it’s being constantly nerfed and reduced to a few gimmicky builds/playstyles.

So maybe it’s just perception, but I started leveling an engineer exactly because they seem to be at a sort of sweet spot when it comes to balance. Perhaps less so in PvE and more for WvW or PvP in general.

Stice.5204:

… No nerfs …

You obviously didn’t play engineer right? Or why did you leave out such big nerfs (!) as the insaneley – multiple times – reduced damage for grenades #1 skill? Or the nerf of the Flamethrowers damage? Or the nerf of the pistol attackspeed? Or the longer shield cooldowns. No speaking about the way grenades behave now (randomly) ?!?

The overal number of “bugfixes” and “buffs” doesn’t matter – it ’s the usefulness and terms in overall balance that counts. As noticed above, Engineers are least understood. But seeing the random effects finally get removed from some of our Elixrs is a step in the right direction and they seem to finally get into it.

The only thing they need to get rid of is the punishment for their own faults in programing in terms of Substain Direct Damage on Pistol, FT, Rifle, Grenades (condition damage is fine!) – they first went over the top with all (semi)-ranged attacks / kits and then nerfed them to the ground in terms of power-scaling. *

While Bombkit and Toolkit ’s Damage is mostly fine and in line with similiar skills / attacks from other classes our ranged attacks (f. e. Pistol #1, Flamethrower #1, Grenade #1, Rifle #1) do way to little Direct Damage now even when geared / traited for (by that i mean going full Zerker) – with their normal attacks aside from some high bursts on longer cooldowns like Grenade Barrage or the kitten SD everyone has to take because their normal attacks do less damage then SD does.

Heck, I think even most Engineers would be fine if they nerfed Static Discharge a little bit and increased the Powerscaling / Usefullness for Direct Damage of Pistol, FT and Grenades by a fair Margin (by that I don’t mean overbuffing them just to get nerfed again). f. e. increasing the Power Scaling of their basic attacks.

And by fair I mean a fair amount of substain direct damage when compared to other classes and smiliar skills for example Thiefs Shortbow #1 (Taking the bounces into consideration! It ’s just like Grenades #1 was Damagewise before getting nerfed just with Autotargeting and little bit less range) or Rangers Longbow #1 with Piercing Arrows. And of course taking the amount of reduced damage if nerfing Barrage and/or taking any Nerfs corncerning any bursts into consideration as well.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Cribbage.2056:

I would like to see us truly viable in sPvP on a few different specs.

Is this an Engineer specific issue, though?

Pretty much every class is whittled down to one or two builds when it comes to tournament PvP. And when it comes to hotjoins, I think Engineers have more options than most other classes.

The thing about Tournament PvP is that unless someone else plays a certain way and wins, people aren’t going to adopt any new styles of play.

Everything is either “It doesn’t work because Teldo says it doesn’t work” or “Teldo’s build is the only build that Engineers have in TPvP”. And it just makes me sad inside.

imaginary.6241:

Stice.5204:

… No nerfs …

You obviously didn’t play engineer right? Or why did you leave out such big nerfs (!) as the insaneley – multiple times – reduced damage for grenades #1 skill? Or the nerf of the Flamethrowers damage? Or the nerf of the pistol attackspeed? Or the longer shield cooldowns. No speaking about the way grenades behave now (randomly) ?!?

The overal number of “bugfixes” and “buffs” doesn’t matter – it ’s the usefulness and terms in overall balance that counts. As noticed above, Engineers are least understood. But seeing the random effects finally get removed from some of our Elixrs is a step in the right direction and they seem to finally get into it.

The only thing they need to get rid of is the punishment for their own faults in programing in terms of Substain Direct Damage on Pistol, FT, Rifle, Grenades (condition damage is fine!) – they first went over the top with all (semi)-ranged attacks / kits and then nerfed them to the ground in terms of power-scaling. *

While Bombkit and Toolkit ’s Damage is mostly fine and in line with similiar skills / attacks from other classes our ranged attacks (f. e. Pistol #1, Flamethrower #1, Grenade #1, Rifle #1) do way to little Direct Damage now even when geared / traited for (by that i mean going full Zerker) – with their normal attacks aside from some high bursts on longer cooldowns like Grenade Barrage or the kitten SD everyone has to take because their normal attacks do less damage then SD does.

Heck, I think even most Engineers would be fine if they nerfed Static Discharge a little bit and increased the Powerscaling / Usefullness for Direct Damage of Pistol, FT and Grenades by a fair Margin (by that I don’t mean overbuffing them just to get nerfed again). f. e. increasing the Power Scaling of their basic attacks.

And by fair I mean a fair amount of substain direct damage when compared to other classes and smiliar skills for example Thiefs Shortbow #1 (Taking the bounces into consideration! It ’s just like Grenades #1 was Damagewise before getting nerfed just with Autotargeting and little bit less range) or Rangers Longbow #1 with Piercing Arrows. And of course taking the amount of reduced damage if nerfing Barrage and/or taking any Nerfs corncerning any bursts into consideration as well.

I don’t know about doing less damage with Rifle 1. Anytime I have an auto-attack battle with anyone, I usually come out on top. Also, I don’t think pistol needs more damage because that is a condition weapon. It makes up for it’s damage overtime.

imaginary.6241:

Stice.5204:

… No nerfs …

You obviously didn’t play engineer right? Or why did you leave out such big nerfs (!) as the insaneley – multiple times – reduced damage for grenades #1 skill? Or the nerf of the Flamethrowers damage? Or the nerf of the pistol attackspeed? Or the longer shield cooldowns. No speaking about the way grenades behave now (randomly) ?!?

You just cut a two-word sentence fragment off the end of my gigantic post, took it utterly out of context, and then used it as a launch pad for a 6-paragraph rant full of superfluous punctuation expressing how shocked and upset you are at the totally ignorant opinion you’re pretending I hold.

Have you considered a career in politics?

Dirame.8521:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Cribbage.2056:

I would like to see us truly viable in sPvP on a few different specs.

Is this an Engineer specific issue, though?

Pretty much every class is whittled down to one or two builds when it comes to tournament PvP. And when it comes to hotjoins, I think Engineers have more options than most other classes.

The thing about Tournament PvP is that unless someone else plays a certain way and wins, people aren’t going to adopt any new styles of play.

Everything is either “It doesn’t work because Teldo says it doesn’t work” or “Teldo’s build is the only build that Engineers have in TPvP”. And it just makes me sad inside.

Some people just have to learn to help themselves.

anybody remember the permanent stability flamethrower? those were fun times.

Okay, seriously now. Some people are really commited to this “114”.

But what does 114 mean? Its a number without any perspective. 114 positive changes over the course of about 380days.

But, how many negative changes? Nerfs, broken skills. And how would 114 positive changes compare to other professions?

Without any kind of source of comparison, or perspective, its a rather meaningless number. That in and of itself does not defeat the strong feeling people have that Engineers have been getting neglected.

Terrahero.9358:

Okay, seriously now. Some people are really commited to this “114”.

But what does 114 mean? Its a number without any perspective. 114 positive changes over the course of about 380days.

But, how many negative changes? Nerfs, broken skills. And how would 114 positive changes compare to other professions?

Without any kind of source of comparison, or perspective, its a rather meaningless number. That in and of itself does not defeat the strong feeling people have that Engineers have been getting neglected.

What does it mean? It means the assertion that the engineer is “the class they left behind” (which, you might note, is the title of this thread) is ridiculous.

Do you really need “comparison or perspective” on a list of 114 positive changes to accept that Arenanet has obviously been working to improve the overall state of the engineer since the game launched? If you go comb through the patch archives yourself and find that maybe elementalists got even more fixes is that somehow going to validate the original argument that Arenanet ignores engineer issues?

If you have a “strong feeling” that you’re being neglected by a development team that has been improving your character at a rate of nearly 10 positive changes a month, there is a name for that: confirmation bias.

Or just reality. We’ve got traits broken that were ignored since launch – like Scope – even if people insisted on them being broken. Or turrets – whose overcharges and rate of fire is broken at least since june, with a thread detailing their bug, and no fix on them yet – and we’re talking about a whole category of skills. We had a whole thread regarding bugs of the class, with things like scope written in that – and it was completely ignored.
And yes, you need comparison and perspective regarding that list- especially since some of those aren’t even buffs. Heh, the current juggernaut was even demoted as a master trait, since it wasn’t on par with the old one. Some of those ones are things we should have took for granted (kits autoattacks, seriously? i’m still waiting for grenades, by the way) like sigil on kits – that came along with a general nerf on kit attack.
Or when they upgraded the kits…that had to use an attack that depended on the highest rarity available on the engineer level. Yet they nerfed them back to exotic level after ascended items were introduced.
Also, a good part of those buffs were due to other nerfs – that you aren’t mentioning, as you said yourself. If they were even real – some patch notes were even wrong in that regard (super elixir wasn’t actually buffed at a certain patch, despite the patch notes, for example; or some fixes that weren’t actually working).
But the most annoying part it is regarding hotfixes: we must wait several months to see harmful bugs to us solved; but if it is something beneficial to us, it will be fixed in a couple hours – because we’re probably annoying some other class in pvp by having something like that (see: bugged glue bomb).
So, yep, we’re quite being ignored – as long as we aren’t annoying some other class.

No matter what class forum you go to, almost all of them will call themselves “The left behind class”
Is this a competition about which class gets the least buffs and most nerfs?