Guild Wars 2

First allow me to clear the air, I’m not here to shout for nerfs, buffs, or any Dev work; what I am here to do is ask the simple question of “What is the Engineer’s role in the game.” I’ve been an Engineer from launch. I love the Engineer. I love the class so much I don’t have another level 80 anything. I love being my big white charr engineer. However I have noticed that in the time that I’ve played, and the builds I’ve explored the Engineer seems to always end up leaving me saying “So…what was the point of that ability.”. I’ll begin with turrets, then jump to WvW Nade build.

Turrets are without a doubt the highlight staple of our class. Turrets were a selling point in the promo video. Turrets are what an engineer uses. Yet what is the point of turrets outside of leveling? I’m a bit confused here. Turrets don’t really have a purpose at 80 (at least the dmg ones). The rocket Turret seems to be the most useful one considering it’s the only one with real damage. Not sure here but did they correct the ground targeting for turrets? If not it seems silly using them in a build at 80. Actually I’d be willing to wager that you’re special build usually doesn’t last longer than a month after you get frustrated with the lack of utility a turret brings. Lets consider the list of turrets we get

• Thumper (Not exactly sure what we do with this at 80. Can’t really Farm with it, PvE Dungeons with it, LOL at WvW with it) Yay we get a 40-60 cd knockdown.
• Flame (This turret is awesome…in the Supply Crate)
• Net (Now it’s not that bad actually. Quick CD, immobilize, but not exactly that great if someone can break stun which 70% of the lvl 80 populace uses)
• Rocket (Best turret, good range, good DPS, just a good turret)
• Healing(Overcharge is the best. Another good turret.)
• Rifle(Uhh fire faster?)

Overall the turrets just seem like a joke. I rarely see them.

The WvW Grenade build is arguably the most favored build for many engineers. However there are some major downsides to the grenade build. Yes it’s good DPS. Yes it’s condition dmg is really good. Yes paired with a rifle you have tons of CC and plenty of Utility. It seems like this is great. Yet, what is the downside? Skillshot. Some players will argue that it’s better this way. Imagine this I have 2 beers in 2 different refrigerators both beers are the same, however the refrigerators are on two different floors and one is behind a locked door (which you have the key to). The only benefit to the upstairs refrigerator is that’s a major brand name refrigerator comparable to all major brands. The downstairs one is a USSR model, still keeps your beer cold though. Getting tired? Well the point was to show that you have to put in a little extra effort to be comparable to other things. The point is Why. Why is that other people can simply click on someone and push buttons and we have to predict where they’re moving aim fire and push buttons all while on the run. It just seems so tedious and annoying.

Overall I’d say I’m confused on this class. When we find something that gives us some structure we lose it. This class when compared to the others is the class that requires the most effort to play well while offering an average reward. It’d be like working 45-50 hrs a week only to walk away with 300 dollars a week compared to a normal job of 40 hrs a week making double that. What’s the point? I’m convinced we’re all suckers for pain and punishment with this class.

**EDIT: Just wanted to add in here. The best question to ask is Why is it that you don’t see many engineers. That’s a great place to start. If you think that being the least played class is cool and we’re least played for a good reason that’s silly.

Miffinator.3046:

Overall I’d say I’m confused on this class. When we find something that gives us some structure we lose it. This class when compared to the others is the class that requires the most effort to play well while offering an average reward.

**EDIT: Just wanted to add in here. The best question to ask is Why is it that you don’t see many engineers. That’s a great place to start. If you think that being the least played class is cool and we’re least played for a good reason that’s silly.

We have a higher skill floor than every other class in the game. we are not a class that you can simply pick up and play. You will have to play this class for hundreds of hours to be average at it, but once you play the Engineer enough, you’ll realize that we are actually in a fair spot. Sure Warriors can punch out numbers like nobody has every seen, in PvE, but when it comes to PvP, they are arguably the worst class. We aren’t the best at anything, and we are’t the worse at anything.
To answer the second part. This is opinion based, but from what I have seen. Most people will get their Engineer to around 50, and go back to another toon, or roll another character. Most people do not see end game with the Engineer, because they feel the class is weak. Anet is probably looking at the percentage of classes created, and assuming that everything is all fine and dandy. Until they look at the amount of time played per class, they will continue to be ignorant. What is it people say? Ignorance is bliss, and Anet is full of ignorance. Well… minus the second bit.

The point is Why. Why is that other people can simply click on someone and push buttons and we have to predict where they’re moving aim fire and push buttons all while on the run. It just seems so tedious and annoying.

Because we have condition spam, easily attainable 25 stacks of vulnerability, huge damage and 1,500 range. Grenades are best for area denial and running away. Using it in 1v1 situations is difficult, but definitely possible. In general, switch to another kit or weapon for close up.

I’m not sure what class you’re playing, but a fully geared DPS grenade spammer is the best zerg buster in the game. That’s one role right there.

Donut.6914:

I’m not sure what class you’re playing, but a fully geared DPS grenade spammer is the best zerg buster in the game. That’s one role right there.

*for a PvP or WvW setting.

They do, I tried to make a more AOE based build the other day you know to do prep and lay down some damaging effects to kill before the enemies got to me. Well I have mine, the toolbelt mines, the thumper, the bomb kit. I was highly disappointed with the timer on the pickup of the thumper, It take 40 seconds out of combat for that thing to recharge! Who the heck thought up that one!? It’s bad enough that the average down time of the picked up turret is more then ten seconds but to add that many onto one of the best ones for close up AOE damage is just not cool.

This was in PVE mind you.

Specterryu Quipter.8412:

Miffinator.3046:

Overall I’d say I’m confused on this class. When we find something that gives us some structure we lose it. This class when compared to the others is the class that requires the most effort to play well while offering an average reward.

**EDIT: Just wanted to add in here. The best question to ask is Why is it that you don’t see many engineers. That’s a great place to start. If you think that being the least played class is cool and we’re least played for a good reason that’s silly.

We have a higher skill floor than every other class in the game. we are not a class that you can simply pick up and play. You will have to play this class for hundreds of hours to be average at it, but once you play the Engineer enough, you’ll realize that we are actually in a fair spot. Sure Warriors can punch out numbers like nobody has every seen, in PvE, but when it comes to PvP, they are arguably the worst class. We aren’t the best at anything, and we are’t the worse at anything.
To answer the second part. This is opinion based, but from what I have seen. Most people will get their Engineer to around 50, and go back to another toon, or roll another character. Most people do not see end game with the Engineer, because they feel the class is weak. Anet is probably looking at the percentage of classes created, and assuming that everything is all fine and dandy. Until they look at the amount of time played per class, they will continue to be ignorant. What is it people say? Ignorance is bliss, and Anet is full of ignorance. Well… minus the second bit.

Have to agree with that assessment that people find the engineer weak especially when reaching the upper levels. I noticed something wrong with the upper levels when I reached level 60 and then suddenly everything changed when I reached level 75 until november. I’m wondering if someone somewhere along the lines didn’t do the basic math for the base scores properly for the engineer and that’s why they do less damage on enemies 60+ then other classes in PVE.

I’ve noticed that on my other toons. I have a thief and ranger and they both outdo my engi in everything in PVE easily without blinking and not for trying. I’ve using the best setup for my playstyle, I’m using exotic gear and the right kind of traits to improve overall damage. It’s just my other two “adventurer” classes are naturally built with better traits, better skillset damage bonuses and can kill things in three shots with the right setup, meanwhile my engi and other engis i’ve watched in PVE all take an average of ten abilities or more to kill the same mobs. Ignorance I’d say is definitely part of the problem. I’d also put forth that the people who come onto these forums and mistake what I’m talking about (pure PVE) with what they experience in PVP aren’t helping the matter in the PVE realm of things.

The fact is that Engineers are just fun. I’ve rolled over 1,250 hours as one, and only around 30 combined as the other classes. Not one day goes by when I don’t laugh out loud at how ridiculous the combination of kits and weapons are. Dropping nails, pulling someone with a magnet, wacking them with a prybar — then fumigating them and dropping an acid bomb, then bopping out to the shooting them with a bolt of lightening from your belt buckle… I mean, come on, what other class can come close to this much fun.

Nothing can beat that.

I actually put the Thumper turret to great use. Net and Rocket are awesome when you use them both together as they become ridiculous CC machines.

Soon.5240:

The fact is that Engineers are just fun. I’ve rolled over 1,250 hours as one, and only around 30 combined as the other classes. Not one day goes by when I don’t laugh out loud at how ridiculous the combination of kits and weapons are. Dropping nails, pulling someone with a magnet, wacking them with a prybar — then fumigating them and dropping an acid bomb, then bopping out to the shooting them with a bolt of lightening from your belt buckle… I mean, come on, what other class can come close to this much fun.

Nothing can beat that.

Favorite stupid build so far: Full power and crit damage Elixir Gun with net turret. Stupidest build I’ve made to date, but god kitten it is it funny to kill people with it xD

I like turrets quite a bit. They’re kitten in WvW (I actually tried that earlier; going to try modifying my build slightly and ditching Deployable Turrets) and as durable in dungeons as dryer lint run through a lawnmower, but they’re still the one skillset I like most about the Engineer.

That said, yes, Turrets definitely need work. So does most of the class in general – the ongoing Kit Refinement fiasco alone tells me all I need to as far as whether the Engineer was ready for release or good enough at a once-over, many of our abilities are weakened knockoffs of other classes’ skills, and there’s just nowhere the class really shines except for being okay.

It’s still the only class I’m really interested in, though, and I wish Anet would look at these boards sometime; maybe things would change in a way that would bring the class more in line with the others in terms of effort-reward or identity.

I’ll post again PVE is not fine, I’m talking PVE and PVE is what they have to correct for nerfing for 7 months.

PVP WVW are both perfectly okay because they’ve been balancing that at the expense of PVE play, now they have to fix PVE because it shouldn’t take any class three times as long to kill enemies like it does right now. I’ve observed it even in other engineers around me in 60+ zones so I have to laugh at people who constantly make the argument that everything’s fine just because they do some PVP WVW match, that’s not the case at all, balance encompasses EVERY part of gameplay.

Healing is a joke mainly because of the design of the game so support for engineers is bad anyway simply because of the way healing is designed (nerfing a class doesn’t ever help with a poorly designed system of support, no direct heals to speak of doesn’t help either especially when they take away the direct heals like the EG AOE refinement fields direct heal in PVE).

CC is a joke for boss fights, it’s just like dodging for some reason there’s this need to completely break mechanics after they make them essential in the game so when a boss does an attack somehow you’re stuck in place (happened to me in the temporary Frost and Flame dungeon constantly) No other game has ever done that cept WoW to my knowledge. Why have machanics like dodge if you can’t use them. This is on top of the nerfs they’ve done to the skills on engineer.

So it’s really frustrating sometimes to play PVE in any other part of the game other then events. because we have nerfs to deal with as well as breakage from them taking away certain CC’s we used to have and not completely fleshing out the class, and no amount of PVP WVW balance is going to make this go away.

But the Thumper turret is awesome.

The Thumper’s great for comedic relief.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Soon.5240:

The fact is that Engineers are just fun. I’ve rolled over 1,250 hours as one, and only around 30 combined as the other classes. Not one day goes by when I don’t laugh out loud at how ridiculous the combination of kits and weapons are. Dropping nails, pulling someone with a magnet, wacking them with a prybar — then fumigating them and dropping an acid bomb, then bopping out to the shooting them with a bolt of lightening from your belt buckle… I mean, come on, what other class can come close to this much fun.

Nothing can beat that.

Favorite stupid build so far: Full power and crit damage Elixir Gun with net turret. Stupidest build I’ve made to date, but god kitten it is it funny to kill people with it xD

Full rabid exotic equivalent armor and the elixir gun will melt zombies in Orr like hot peanut butter, I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t done it myself. I wish Fumigate was more like FT 1, though, and with SUCH low damage, I really feel it should be a 1 sec cool down, or 2 at most. Because conditions are broken as heck in this game.

Miffinator.3046:

**EDIT: Just wanted to add in here. The best question to ask is Why is it that you don’t see many engineers. That’s a great place to start. If you think that being the least played class is cool and we’re least played for a good reason that’s silly.

There are probably a lot of reasons. Difficult profession to learn, doesn’t feel powerful at low levels, doesn’t feel strong the first few dozen PvP games, doesn’t feel strong in PvP at all without a good team, difficult profession to create your own builds with—engineer is just hard, period.

There are other reasons. It’s a fantasy game—people want to use swords and magic. There’s the bug list. Our weapon animations are uninspired, except for flamethrower 1, and that’s not a high dps kit. Turrets—the first thing most people try—have serious problems.

If you can get past all of that, you realize that most of the engineer kits were designed by some awesome kid a year out of grad school and they’re all incredibly fun. Then you become an engineer diehard and post in the WvW and PvP forums about the worst bugs to try to get the attention of the devs.

tigirius.9014:

I’ve noticed that on my other toons. I have a thief and ranger and they both outdo my engi in everything in PVE easily without blinking and not for trying.

Hehe, I must use all the wrong skills on my alts because my thief always felt weak in PvE.

Chaba.5410:

tigirius.9014:

I’ve noticed that on my other toons. I have a thief and ranger and they both outdo my engi in everything in PVE easily without blinking and not for trying.

Hehe, I must use all the wrong skills on my alts because my thief always felt weak in PvE.

Yea, thief builds in PvE are a lot different than PvP builds for sure, but thiefs are pretty crazy in PvE IMO. Well by PvE I mean questing/storyline. I haven’t done a dungeon with one yet. I’ve done the craziest pulls(and lived) with my thief. Ironically I made it to ultimately WvW with and find I LOVE the thief in PvE.

Miffinator.3046:

The WvW Grenade build is arguably the most favored build for many engineers. However there are some major downsides to the grenade build. Yes it’s good DPS. Yes it’s condition dmg is really good. Yes paired with a rifle you have tons of CC and plenty of Utility. It seems like this is great. Yet, what is the downside? Skillshot. Some players will argue that it’s better this way. Imagine this I have 2 beers in 2 different refrigerators both beers are the same, however the refrigerators are on two different floors and one is behind a locked door (which you have the key to). The only benefit to the upstairs refrigerator is that’s a major brand name refrigerator comparable to all major brands. The downstairs one is a USSR model, still keeps your beer cold though. Getting tired? Well the point was to show that you have to put in a little extra effort to be comparable to other things. The point is Why. Why is that other people can simply click on someone and push buttons and we have to predict where they’re moving aim fire and push buttons all while on the run. It just seems so tedious and annoying.

I totally agree with you on that point, the grenade should not use ground trageting but should be throw like they are when your character is underwater !!

Tareck.4853:

Miffinator.3046:

The WvW Grenade build is arguably the most favored build for many engineers. However there are some major downsides to the grenade build. Yes it’s good DPS. Yes it’s condition dmg is really good. Yes paired with a rifle you have tons of CC and plenty of Utility. It seems like this is great. Yet, what is the downside? Skillshot. Some players will argue that it’s better this way. Imagine this I have 2 beers in 2 different refrigerators both beers are the same, however the refrigerators are on two different floors and one is behind a locked door (which you have the key to). The only benefit to the upstairs refrigerator is that’s a major brand name refrigerator comparable to all major brands. The downstairs one is a USSR model, still keeps your beer cold though. Getting tired? Well the point was to show that you have to put in a little extra effort to be comparable to other things. The point is Why. Why is that other people can simply click on someone and push buttons and we have to predict where they’re moving aim fire and push buttons all while on the run. It just seems so tedious and annoying.

I totally agree with you on that point, the grenade should not use ground trageting but should be throw like they are when your character is underwater !!

NO! Definitely not! Ground targeting allows it to be this powerful. Making it like under water would be a GIANT nerf. Also, ground targetting allows for area denial, which is the whole point.

grenade kit just needs 75% faster flight time and it’s pretty perfect. A low chance blast finisher would be nice tho, engineer in general are weak for finishers that don’t have drawbacks attached to them

Donut.6914:

I’m not sure what class you’re playing, but a fully geared DPS grenade spammer is the best zerg buster in the game. That’s one role right there.

Nope. Necro>>>>Grenadier as zerg buster.

Yes, I play both fully equipped and extensively in WvW. EU T1 and T2.

PS: Unless you go full elixirs the new Southsun Cove is a pita for Engineers with all the conditions being thrown around. Way to go Anet.

blurps.2340:

PS: Unless you go full elixirs the new Southsun Cove is a pita for Engineers with all the conditions being thrown around. Way to go Anet.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

I actually don’t have much trouble in Southsun Cove, and I’m running a 20/0/30/0/20 Turrets, Toolkit and Static Discharge build at the moment.

Well, except for Reef Drakes. Man, kitten Reef Drakes.

SSC is actually a lot of fun. Veteran Karkas are like mini-boss fights in themselves. I"m glad that Engineers have Mine Field to knock out all those ridiculous boons they give themselves.

blurps.2340:

PS: Unless you go full elixirs the new Southsun Cove is a pita for Engineers with all the conditions being thrown around. Way to go Anet.

CF 409 is available at the 2nd tier for elixirs. Medkit has #4 for frequent cleanse. Our new respanked healing turret is also pretty great for conditions. Haven’t noticed a problem.

Remillard.8691:

blurps.2340:

PS: Unless you go full elixirs the new Southsun Cove is a pita for Engineers with all the conditions being thrown around. Way to go Anet.

CF 409 is available at the 2nd tier for elixirs. Medkit has #4 for frequent cleanse. Our new respanked healing turret is also pretty great for conditions. Haven’t noticed a problem.

You have to equip elixirs for 409 to be useful, 3 at least. Med Kit #4 cures one condition on a 15s cooldown.

409 build, Med Kit and healing turret are mutually exclusive by the way.

blurps.2340:

Remillard.8691:

blurps.2340:

PS: Unless you go full elixirs the new Southsun Cove is a pita for Engineers with all the conditions being thrown around. Way to go Anet.

CF 409 is available at the 2nd tier for elixirs. Medkit has #4 for frequent cleanse. Our new respanked healing turret is also pretty great for conditions. Haven’t noticed a problem.

You have to equip elixirs for 409 to be useful, 3 at least. Med Kit #4 cures one condition on a 15s cooldown.

409 build, Med Kit and healing turret are mutually exclusive by the way.

Yes, you do have to have an elixir out. I was taking issue with your assertion that you have to go full elixirs. Additionally, I do understand that the medkit and turret are mutually exclusive.

My personal experience though does not bear out your assertion that the area is difficult for engineers due to conditions being placed on the character. I run healing turret, CF 409, a one or two elixirs, mixing up as I go (usually at least Elixir R as the stunbreak is great in so many situations — thinking particularly here of the reef drakes with their pull — though sometimes switch to C for the F-key reflect wall which is particularly useful against either karka or those reef riders.)

So, no, you do not have to go full elixirs to get adequate condition removal. You can be choosy with what you haul around.

You DO have to make sure you address the situation. Going in and expecting to have to do nothing at all is a mistake. But you have options, as presented.