Guild Wars 2

Once you spe tools, if you play rifle turret then adrenal implant lose a lot of interrest in your build. Because surprise shot give a strong basis of vigor uptime, and both don’t stack.

I will try to make the maths obvious …

If you just spam surprise shot each time its up, you already get 30% vigor uptime : Surprise shot recharge in 6.75s, and thanks to optimized activation, it give 2s of vigueur. So you get :
0.7 × 1 + 0.3 × 2 = 1.3 energy rate instead of 1

If you only consider this, then Adrenal Implant will give you :
0.7 × 1.5 + 0.3 × 2 = 1.65 energy
(which is not so bad for now)

But now, if you add the 4 others tool belt spell, at lets say (pessimistic) 32s average cd, then this is 25% more vigor uptime, so you get :
0.45 × 1 + 0.55 × 2 = 1.55 energy

And with Adrenal Implant :
0.45 × 1.5 + 0.55 × 2 = 1.775 energy

Last but not least, if you use rifle turret and also healing turret, you will mostly blast both every 25s maybe, this is 10% more vigor uptime :
0.35 × 1 + 0.65 × 2 = 1.65

And with Adrenal Implant :
0.35 × 1.5 + 0.65 × 2 = 1.825

This is just 10.6% more evades. You still get a bonus from it, but a bad one.

Now lets say you are also spe alchemy. Then you will get 2.4s of vigor from each tool belt instead of 2s. The maths become :

Surpise shot only : 1.36 / 1.68
+4 others tool belt skills : 1.66 / 1.83
+double blast : 1.848 / 1.92

4.1% more evades from a great master trait.

And one last thing, which will speak to people aware of theorycrafting, this is about initiative : Adrenal Implant is a permanent and constant bonus, like a dps, while Optimized Activation is a concentrated and controlled bonus, like a burst. When you are running a sprint (pvp) and not a marathon, a burst thingy is better than a dps thingy.

Summarize : Take care ! Kinetic Battery or Gadgeteer can become better option than Adrenal Implant by far, not because both are good, but because Adrenal Implant can become very crap if it meet conditions which improve a lot Optimized Activation.

The whole thing about Adrenal Implant not stacking with vigor is really bad design. A grandmaster trait which makes a minor trait of the same line wortless is just bad in any way. Something has to happen to this trait line.

Well, it come both from surprise shot AND Optimized Activation. BTW, I just love my rifle turret now, because I understand the whole thing about how I felt more at ease with it than anything else instead.

Bump, water-blast, free attack which can make things procs even when I am cc or when I dodge, and now it also allow me to dodge a lot and take another grandmaster trait even if I fail it 50% of the time (instants casts should not consume Kinetic Battery >.<).

Kodama.6453:

The whole thing about Adrenal Implant not stacking with vigor is really bad design. A grandmaster trait which makes a minor trait of the same line wortless is just bad in any way. Something has to happen to this trait line.

Adrenal Implant definitely needs to be reworked. Maybe if they changed it so you gain endurance either when you deal damage or when you take damage, based on the amount of damage dealt/taken, up to a maximum of 50% gained in one hit? Or have it grant a boon(or multiple boons) when your stamina drops below 50%(with a 10s or 20s cooldown)? Or have it eliminate all cast times for toolbelt skills(that one might be a bit OP but it sure would be fun)?

Or they can just make optimized activation like it’s old version that just refunds a small amount of endurance back directly. That way it wouldn’t conflict with adrenal implant.

They do stack, but it does not appear to be additive. I used a stop watch and timed energy regen with vigor, with adrenal implant, and with both. There is a difference, but it is only slight most of the time.

digitalruse.9085:

They do stack, but it does not appear to be additive. I used a stop watch and timed energy regen with vigor, with adrenal implant, and with both. There is a difference, but it is only slight most of the time.

That’s what I thought too, but everyone keeps telling me I’m wrong even though I’m sure I’m not. Wish some red-named dude or dudette would just say one way or another, I don’t think any of them have.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Or they can just make optimized activation like it’s old version that just refunds a small amount of endurance back directly. That way it wouldn’t conflict with adrenal implant.

Don’t ask for this please … This would be a nerf.

They should make it stack with vigor, additionnally, which is not the case currently.
Without vigor, adrenal implant is one more dodge every 20s, so 3 dodges instead of 2.
Perma vigor is two more dodge every 20s, so 4 dodges instead of 2.
Perma vigor + adrenal implant should be three more dodge every 20s, so 5 dodges instead of 2.

This would be in the spirit of our class. Medium armor class + mid-range, need avoidance. Sometime I feel like ranger have a lot more of avoidance, while they are long-range ?

Your whole calculation is based on the assumption that Vigor gives 100% additional endurance regeneration, however it has been nerfed and now also only gives 50%.

Oh … didn’t noticed it at all >.<
Thanks a lot for your short but very useful intervention !
With a such nerf, it would not be a big deal if both stack multiplicatively …

So, while both don’t stack, the design of Adrenal Implant & Optimized Activation in same branch is totally broken …

adrenal implant does not stack with vigor ?

digitalruse.9085:

They do stack, but it does not appear to be additive. I used a stop watch and timed energy regen with vigor, with adrenal implant, and with both. There is a difference, but it is only slight most of the time.

A stop watch is not good test. I’ll do an ingame recording of both and review the time on a frame by frame basis.

Edit 1: The resoults are in. a 60 fps recording shows 210-214 frames to recover endurance. My counting starts in both cases on the frame where endurance is the lowestr and ends on the frame where the endurance bar glows because it got completly refilled.

Edit 2: More testing shows a constant 4 frames advantage from vigor. This is leading me to belive they are supose to stack but there is a bug that reduces the effectivnes by a lot.

Edit 3: I’m rendering a video to show side by side comparison in 25% speed.

Edit 4: Video comparison here.

Guess they changed vigor to reduce the active defensive capabilities that people could get, so i doubt they’ll made it stack with Adrenal Implant, be it additionally or multiplicatively.
Maybe they could make it so that Adrenal Implant gives an additional effect to the Vigor applied to us, like a damage reduction. Or something else. Basically making it still useful, even if with a different effect.