Unique class party wide buffs

Unique class party wide buffs

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Posted by: J envy.5270

J envy.5270

Since Heart of Thorns came out, i’ve noticed an increase in a unique profession trait party wide buffs, they are not the be and all, but i find this traits have given some classes more edge than others. Guild Wars 2 is and was never perfectly balanced, i main my Engineer, but i play all 9 classes and their specializations in all game modes, and even i sway to which classes gets buffed and stay away from those that get nerfed with every balance patch.

Here is short list of the unique trait buffs that i remember:
1. Warrior’s have Empower Allies (9s): Increases power of nearby allies by 150 points.
2. Guardian’s have Strength in Numbers (6s): Nearby allies gain up to 150_toughness_ based on your effective level. Guardians also have Virtue of Resolve due to the Battle Presence trait: Nearby allies gain Virtue of Resolve’s passive effect.
3. Revenant’s have Assassin’s Presence (9s): Increases ferocity of nearby allies by 150 points.
4. Ranger’s have Spotter Increased_Precision_ (9s): 150 Precision
5. Elementalists’ have Soothing Mist You and nearby allies regenerate health while you are attuned to water. which is increased by 100% effectiveness by the grandmaster trait Soothing Power.
6. Necromancer’s have Vampiric Presence Vampiric Aura (9s): Siphon health when you hit…..and…..Last Rites (9s): You do not lose health while downed.

not sure if this fits but just in case i added it:
7. Mesmer’s have Alacrity from the Chronomancer trait line: 33% Skill Recharge Rate.(was 66% but got nerfed, QQ….still useful in all parts of the game though)

So some are offensive traits, some are defensive, some are useful in all facets of the game, some only in WvW or World PvE. But atleast all 7 classes have this unique party buff traits.
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So that leaves 2 classes without unique profession trait party buff. The thief & engineer.

The Thief has Lotus Training (4s): 10% Condition Damage, Unhindered Combatant (4s): -10% Incoming Damage, -10% Incoming Condition Damage, and Bounding Dodger (4s): 10% Damage….but all of these are SELF ONLY profession trait buff….yup just like before HoT came out, thiefs are still pretty selfish when it comes to party buffs. They got alot of party wide stealth skills but that don’t count.

The Engineer has Streamlined Kits: Equipping a kit creates an attack or spell and grants you swiftness, Kinetic Battery: After evading a strike, your next tool belt skill is instantly recharged, and Adaptive Armor: Adapted Armor (10s): Condition Damage Reduced: 20% & 60 Toughness (Maximum Stacks: 5)….like the thief, these are SELF ONLY trait buffs.
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I’m sure there are other problems that i have missed and other problems this 2 professions have, but maybe just a suggestion to Anet for future skill balances and changes….give this 2 professions a unique party wide trait buff, and maybe they will not be neglected in some parts of the game. Maybe give the engineer a 150 Condition Damage party wide buff from his condition trait line (Firearms), doesn’t have to be a major trait, since some of the other professions have their unique party wide trait buffs as minor traits.

As for the thief, i really don’t have any good ideas that will match the thief, you can give 150 expertise, or 150 concentration party wide buff, but i just don’t see it matching the thief/daredevil class.
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Suggestions???

TL’DR: its not that long take a minute to skim through it. Thanks.

Kamote
Guild Wars Vet since 05
multi-class all game modes

(edited by J envy.5270)

Unique class party wide buffs

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Posted by: Rude.9485

Rude.9485

Just wondering why did you include just those 3 Engineer skills in the example? Like why those 3 in particular?

EDIT: Yeah I see what you mean now youre absolutely right.

(edited by Rude.9485)

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Posted by: J envy.5270

J envy.5270

its just the 3 that i remember in my head that show a unique buff in my boon/buff bar. If i left out other things feel free to add them.

Kamote
Guild Wars Vet since 05
multi-class all game modes

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Making Pinpoint DISTRIBUTION distribute among the group a 150 condi buff would be nice I would kind of like a bit more than that out of a group party buff though, because a lot of raids that just wouldn’t be all that valuable (you don’t stack condi classes when it’s not needed). Maybe a 10% condi duration buff instead? I don’t know.

Unique class party wide buffs

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Posted by: J envy.5270

J envy.5270

well i haven’t raided since december, when pvp season 1 started i just lost focus in raids and just never got back to it. But even then, 150 condi dmg may not be that big of a deal, but it is still something.

Yes 10% condi duration is better, but anyone can get 100% duration on there top dealing conditions between vipers gear, food and traits. Well atleast for me one of my builds is the viper condi engi for pve and i have 100% burning and bleeding duration, which are my top dealing conditions

Kamote
Guild Wars Vet since 05
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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Yeah exactly, Duration in general is better than condi Damage stat, but what does it mean? Tradeoff vipers for sinisters? How much condi damage does that add? worth it?

In the end I think something more generic and all encompassing is needed. Something that surely carves a niche, and condi is not something that’s consistent.

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Posted by: J envy.5270

J envy.5270

You do have a point, I’m just basing my example from the other traits by other professions. There is +power, +precision, +ferocity, +toughness, then there are the other types like the ones on necro, mesmer, and ele.

I’ve read alot of posts and hate about people posting all vipers necros in t4 lfgs, which i honestly don’t care, i make my own group., but its still a problem for others.

Even back then when i was still raiding, necros may not have been popular back then, but there was the almight burnzerker warrior, who did much more dps than i did apparently, with way way less effort.

Point is, I can find a place in raids when i do decide to raid again by looking for a guild/people with like minds. But, in general, speaking for the engineer class, i know they’re not in the best spot for raids, since others classes can do what they can better (apparently), which would not deter me from playing my main, but changing other players mindset wouldn’t be easy. But if Anet makes a change on the next balance patch and gives the thief and the engineer party wide buffs, people may start accepting them more.

I remember back in the early months of GW2 when i was farming CoF p1 on my warrior, and i will only group up with 4 zerk warriors and 1 mesmer, its that kind of mentality. Back then necros were trash they never get in groups and ranger was close behind necro in the uselessness category. But look how much that has changed now with Druids and Reapers in the frontline of must have’s for raids,fractals,etc..

Kamote
Guild Wars Vet since 05
multi-class all game modes

(edited by J envy.5270)

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

Eh? Scrapper was given all the party AoE buffs with gyros. Healing, damage reduction, condi cleanse and stealth. What more do you ask?!

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Posted by: Mork vom Ork.2598

Mork vom Ork.2598

Eh? Scrapper was given all the party AoE buffs with gyros. Healing, damage reduction, condi cleanse and stealth. What more do you ask?!

This thread is about unique party wide buffs, i.e. buffs that only your class can give to the party.
All of the buffs you mentioned are standard, almost every class has the ability to buff a group with them.

Thiefs can share venoms by the way, and eles can share auras. This leaves Engineer/Scrapper as the only class without a unique group buff mechanic.

Still loving the smell of Napalm
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Unique class party wide buffs

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Posted by: J envy.5270

J envy.5270

Eh? Scrapper was given all the party AoE buffs with gyros. Healing, damage reduction, condi cleanse and stealth. What more do you ask?!

1. other classes can do all that you said
2. what i am asking for anet is something like Spotter from ranger, or Assassin’s Presence from Revenant…..this are not Skills or boons, These are traits that are party buffs.

i hope you atleast skim-read the main post, cuz your comment doesn’t agree.

Kamote
Guild Wars Vet since 05
multi-class all game modes

Unique class party wide buffs

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Posted by: J envy.5270

J envy.5270

Yeah i thought about thief venoms, but those are types of skills, they are not unique trait party buffs. Yes venoms are buffs but the thief would rather use his precision and power signets to maximize dps than use venoms, and those other meta builds from other professions would still have access to their trait buffs regardless of their utility skills, that’s why i didn’t consider venoms as one of them.

Aura’s are the same, it works well with D/Wh auramancers but it will force tempests to either use shout utility skills or always be overloading their attunements(hence, won’t work with Staff Ele meta builds).

Trait buffs will increase party dps regardless of the each class utilities. This is why i wasn’t sure to consider the Mesmer in the list, as Alacrity is in between, luckily alacrity is used widely on all game modes, and as far as i remember chronomancer meta builds revolve around making the most use of alacrity as party wide buffs.

Kamote
Guild Wars Vet since 05
multi-class all game modes

(edited by J envy.5270)

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Posted by: Ryn.6459

Ryn.6459

Tbh with a simple +150 stat we wont make it. I think we need a flat +5% damage increase around us. Like shaped charge or shsrpshooter or excessive energy work party wide.

Learning English, any correction is very welcome.

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Posted by: Ryn.6459

Ryn.6459

Oh also. With the amonut of utility we already have. A simple buf on bomb kit so we reach thief dps would be the easiest solution. Iirc we are just 2k short.

Learning English, any correction is very welcome.

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Posted by: guildabd.6529

guildabd.6529

Let us share kits.

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Posted by: J envy.5270

J envy.5270

Oh also. With the amonut of utility we already have. A simple buf on bomb kit so we reach thief dps would be the easiest solution. Iirc we are just 2k short.

well the idea here is to give the engineer and the thief a fair nod like the other classes have in terms of hard pve content t4 fractals and raids(even when i don’t raid at all).

Those little trait party buffs that the other classes have, have their uses like 150 power isnt all the great either, but its still 150 power, 150 toughness sounds worthless outside wvw zerging but its better than nothing….get my point? So 150 condi damage isn’t the best but its still something, maybe enough to consider thief or engi in that type of content by pugs or elitists. Personally it doesn’t affect me but i’m looking out for the rest of engi and thief community who like to do this type of content.

Increasing bomb dps is a whole another can of worms that i don’t really want to get into, i’m just trying to focus on the trait party buffs which is unfair that some classes do but NOT ALL. Like i said in my OP, the game has and still is not balanced across the board, some are buffed some are nerf’d, but with every patch those things can change dramatically or not at all, but here is to being optimistic.

Kamote
Guild Wars Vet since 05
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Posted by: Dreaminspace.2638

Dreaminspace.2638

Here would be my recommendation:

Tool Trait Line:
`Swap Adrenal Implant and Excessive Force.
`Increase Excessive Force to 20% (+10%)
`Rename Adrenal Implant to Adrenal Injectors.
`Adrenal Injectors increases group endurance regeneration by 33% (-17%).

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

If you want unique, and we limit ourselves to traits.

  • warrior, power.
  • rangers, precision. With druid, condi/power damage increases.
  • ele, a persisting heal,
  • guardian, toughness, and a persisting heal + boosted endurance regen
  • necro, life steal, no bleeding out
  • mesmer, alacrity, and damage reduction
  • revenant, ferocity, and condi/power damage reduction. With Herald, boon duration

So either healing power or condi duration.

But serious question. How is that actually that much of a disadvantage? And why are you focusing on buffs that appear on the bar. Warrior has banners that put buffs on the bar and can enhance every stat except condi duration.

With elixir x you stole the unique elites of 3 classes. You also can use 8/9 combo fields on a single build. Only ranger has access to even that many, but half of those are bound in what pet he uses.

Also if you are going to include Mesmer’s alacrity, then you have to include your super speed.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

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Posted by: J envy.5270

J envy.5270

If you want unique, and we limit ourselves to traits.

  • warrior, power.
  • rangers, precision. With druid, condi/power damage increases.
  • ele, a persisting heal,
  • guardian, toughness, and a persisting heal + boosted endurance regen
  • necro, life steal, no bleeding out
  • mesmer, alacrity, and damage reduction
  • revenant, ferocity, and condi/power damage reduction. With Herald, boon duration

So either healing power or condi duration.

But serious question. How is that actually that much of a disadvantage? And why are you focusing on buffs that appear on the bar. Warrior has banners that put buffs on the bar and can enhance every stat except condi duration.

With elixir x you stole the unique elites of 3 classes. You also can use 8/9 combo fields on a single build. Only ranger has access to even that many, but half of those are bound in what pet he uses.

Also if you are going to include Mesmer’s alacrity, then you have to include your super speed.

Ok so let me give you the reason why i’m only focusing on that small bit and not everything thats wrong abut the engineer.

1. 7 of the classes i mentioned has that unique to the profession buff that is NOT a BOON, NOT a CONDITION, NOT a UTILITY SKILL….these are traits that have party buff built on them, and you will really notice them as they have UNIQUE SKILL ICONS that show up in your boon/buff bar.

2. I don’t want the either the thief or the engineer to build around this 1 buff, i want it to be there regardless of there META builds, as an additional unique buff, which means they are not just any boon that other classes have access to. So the thief/engineer can still use a META build with META utility skills and still have access to this trait buffs.

3. Which brings me to the point why i was not sure to add mesmer alacrity, i added it because it is available only because of the chronomancer trait line, and it is an effect that are unique to chronomancers, UNLIKE superspeed that awhole lot of other classes have ACCESS to. Alacrity is closer to aegis as guardians have an ALMOST EXCLUSIVE BOON which is aegis, but other classes have rng access to aegis so its not exactly comparable to alacrity, and also aegis is a boon, alacrity is not, it is an effect but it is not considered a boon.

4. I am not trying to fix all the problems of the engineer, that would take forever as even Anet themselves have never balanced the game. Each class/specialization has their own uniqueness and different playstyles, If the engineer has access to skills like banners then banners won’t be unique to the warrior class.

5. Yes, engineers have alot of access to combo fields and blasts and finishers, and i don’t have any issues with those, i am not saying that the engineer’s skills are bad or needs or be buffed (i’m not), the point of this post is not to make the engineer like have warriors skills or ranger skills and so forth, the point of this post is to have a unique trait buff that only the engineer or the thief has access to much like spotter, etc.

Kamote
Guild Wars Vet since 05
multi-class all game modes

Unique class party wide buffs

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Posted by: Xyonon.3987

Xyonon.3987

Eh? Scrapper was given all the party AoE buffs with gyros. Healing, damage reduction, condi cleanse and stealth. What more do you ask?!

Healing is weak, HT does it better, protection lasts only for a short time, condi cleanse is not aoe, stealth is not needed in raids.


@op

The common ideas are the best ones so far:

→ super speed grants a damage boost (a high one since it’s hard to maintain, also affects condi dmg)
→ expert examination adds an unique debuff on the enemy: daze stun knockback trigger it

Those are the best ways for engis to get a dmg boost. Not just by an aura, but by either super speed or cc.


offtopic @ opener: if you type “-” 3 times, you get a full line

greez!

Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”

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Posted by: Wondrouswall.7169

Wondrouswall.7169

-> super speed grants a damage boost (a high one since it’s hard to maintain, also affects condi dmg)

I like this idea. Maybe place this onto Applied Force and have the unique buff be applied when super speed is applied so it’s not overwritten as other classes have access to it?

Buff duration could be (and capped at) 10s so it would match the ICD on Shocking Speed and have extra application through Bypass Coating.

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Posted by: J envy.5270

J envy.5270

super speed granting a boost in damage as a party buff sounds good, but it maybe too hard for devs to put in place compared to a simple 150 condi dmg or condi duration increase. But i like the idea that it is in the scrapper trait line because i’ve hated how limiting the scrapper trait line is. Too many unnecessary traits and lacks dps too the point that going scrapper is a dps loss, which sucks.

Kamote
Guild Wars Vet since 05
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Posted by: Xyonon.3987

Xyonon.3987

All those +150 “useful stat” traits are like +5% dmg for most of the time 5-6 players, or even more in the case of the Rev.


For a super speed based boon, we’d need to know what the uptime is and then if it’s worth to pick for example another gyro instead of a 3rd kit for more super speed etc.

If we could (we can’t :P) sustain perma super speed for 5 ppl, it should be at least a 5% modifier. In a realistic case I’d rather stick to 10% wich sounds a bit much but over the whole duration is imo totally reasonable.


I think “granting super speed” is easier to manage than “while under the effect of super speed of a scrapper”. So it may be enough to grant this buff for a few seconds, regardless of the super speed duration. That way it would also be easier to balance in terms of duration rather than % bonus.

The bonus should be power and condition damage % bonus, just like grace of the land, so condi scrappers are a thing too (fairness).

greez!

Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”

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Posted by: J envy.5270

J envy.5270

Yeh i agree with how good super speed = more dps as a party buff looks good, but like i said, it maybe easier to say on paper but for the devs to actually inputing codes to make that happen as an actual Unique Trait Party Buff like spotter and empower allies and so forth, would be pretty hard.

Normal skills in the game are already buggy, much more for the idea that having a trait the only works to increase dmg for not just the engineer/scrapper but also for up to 5 people in his/her party/squad. That’s the problem i just don’t see Anet being able to accomplish. AFAIK its never been done, and no changes in the game tell me that they are capable of making such change.

I like the idea don’t get me wrong, i’m just being realistic thats all.


The point of my original post is NOT to make engis really amazing that they would be in the frontlines of being picked for hard core PVE content(which i would want personally), but rather to make just 1 little change and have that party buff unique to the engieer class and another one for the thief class, just because it is not right that these other classes have such buffs that help groups to accomplish certain content while the 2 classes i mentioned have no such thing.

1 little trait change may not make the thief or the engineer the best 2 professions in terms of pve hardcore content, but atleast they have been shown equal treatment. It’s one thing that for the most part scrapper gyros plain suck, its another thing where other classes increase party dps without even having to change there META builds, while others get less priority for not having any party buffs(selfish builds = more personal dps = less party dps)


Its simple really, If you raid(because i don’t, or haven’t since December)would you get a warrior with no empower allies or a druid with no spotter or a herald with no assassins promise in your raid group? Why would you when its a must. It’s not a utility trait where they are forced to change utilities for certain bosses, its not. Those buffs are always there no matter what utilties they use or what weapons they use. Its always there increasing party dps, and it may not be Super DPS increase, but in any mmo, every single buff/increase to dps = can never be a bad thing.

Kamote
Guild Wars Vet since 05
multi-class all game modes

(edited by J envy.5270)

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

If you want unique, and we limit ourselves to traits.

  • warrior, power.
  • rangers, precision. With druid, condi/power damage increases.
  • ele, a persisting heal,
  • guardian, toughness, and a persisting heal + boosted endurance regen
  • necro, life steal, no bleeding out
  • mesmer, alacrity, and damage reduction
  • revenant, ferocity, and condi/power damage reduction. With Herald, boon duration

So either healing power or condi duration.

But serious question. How is that actually that much of a disadvantage? And why are you focusing on buffs that appear on the bar. Warrior has banners that put buffs on the bar and can enhance every stat except condi duration.

With elixir x you stole the unique elites of 3 classes. You also can use 8/9 combo fields on a single build. Only ranger has access to even that many, but half of those are bound in what pet he uses.

Also if you are going to include Mesmer’s alacrity, then you have to include your super speed.

Ok so let me give you the reason why i’m only focusing on that small bit and not everything thats wrong abut the engineer.

1. 7 of the classes i mentioned has that unique to the profession buff that is NOT a BOON, NOT a CONDITION, NOT a UTILITY SKILL….these are traits that have party buff built on them, and you will really notice them as they have UNIQUE SKILL ICONS that show up in your boon/buff bar.

2. I don’t want the either the thief or the engineer to build around this 1 buff, i want it to be there regardless of there META builds, as an additional unique buff, which means they are not just any boon that other classes have access to. So the thief/engineer can still use a META build with META utility skills and still have access to this trait buffs.

3. Which brings me to the point why i was not sure to add mesmer alacrity, i added it because it is available only because of the chronomancer trait line, and it is an effect that are unique to chronomancers, UNLIKE superspeed that awhole lot of other classes have ACCESS to. Alacrity is closer to aegis as guardians have an ALMOST EXCLUSIVE BOON which is aegis, but other classes have rng access to aegis so its not exactly comparable to alacrity, and also aegis is a boon, alacrity is not, it is an effect but it is not considered a boon.

4. I am not trying to fix all the problems of the engineer, that would take forever as even Anet themselves have never balanced the game. Each class/specialization has their own uniqueness and different playstyles, If the engineer has access to skills like banners then banners won’t be unique to the warrior class.

5. Yes, engineers have alot of access to combo fields and blasts and finishers, and i don’t have any issues with those, i am not saying that the engineer’s skills are bad or needs or be buffed (i’m not), the point of this post is not to make the engineer like have warriors skills or ranger skills and so forth, the point of this post is to have a unique trait buff that only the engineer or the thief has access to much like spotter, etc.

You lost me at number two. Half of the meta builds do not use their party buff trait. If you are going to request that type of buff you have to deal with the consequences of it being bound to single trait line. For instance guardians and elementalists can’t use their buff in their meta builds because they come from low dps lines.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)

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Posted by: J envy.5270

J envy.5270

What i meant for #2 was that i don’t wan’t the engineer to build around a party buff, like for example i don’t want the engineer to put as much super speed in his skill bar just to put out enough support for the party. To make it even clearer, in PVE a warrior does not build around Empower Allies. The traits comes with his trait line for his meta build while he brings banners and other utilities to increase his and his party’s dps outside of empower allies.

To make this even clearer, when someone says META build, it does not automatically mean PvE, there are meta builds for WvW and PvP as well, unless i specified META PvE like i did above.

Yes, the empower allies, spotter, assasins promise is part of meta builds in pve…..while the Guardians’ Strenth in Numbers, and Eles’ Soothing Mist is part of WvW Meta builds, and have been part of PvP Meta builds occasionally, all in all they all have their uses.
—-
My original post addresses mostly problems that occur in PvE but i did mention that not all the trait party buffs that i wrote down are offensive, some are defensive, some are used in WvW and PvP only. Although i would rather get an offensive trait party buff for my engineer, honestly i’ll take anything as my main problem lies in the fact that 7/9 classes that i mentioned in my OP has atleast 1, while thief and engineer has none to show for.

Kamote
Guild Wars Vet since 05
multi-class all game modes

(edited by J envy.5270)

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

What i meant for #2 was that i don’t wan’t the engineer to build around a party buff, like for example i don’t want the engineer to put as much super speed in his skill bar just to put out enough support for the party. To make it even clearer, in PVE a warrior does not build around Empower Allies. The traits comes with his trait line for his meta build while he brings banners and other utilities to increase his and his party’s dps outside of empower allies.

To make this even clearer, when someone says META build, it does not automatically mean PvE, there are meta builds for WvW and PvP as well, unless i specified META PvE like i did above.

Yes, the empower allies, spotter, assasins promise is part of meta builds in pve…..while the Guardians’ Strenth in Numbers, and Eles’ Soothing Mist is part of WvW Meta builds, and have been part of PvP Meta builds occasionally, all in all they all have their uses.
—-
My original post addresses mostly problems that occur in PvE but i did mention that not all the trait party buffs that i wrote down are offensive, some are defensive, some are used in WvW and PvP only. Although i would rather get an offensive trait party buff for my engineer, honestly i’ll take anything as my main problem lies in the fact that 7/9 classes that i mentioned in my OP has atleast 1, while thief and engineer has none to show for.

That is also a lie. For necromancer their party buff isn’t meta in any game mode. So 7 becomes 6. You keep adding mesmers to the total but you shouldn’t, their buff requires traits and the skill bar to spread alacrity. So 5 out of 9. Hardly a trend.

Also what trait are you willing to give up for this party buff? Since the only unique buff left to you is condi duration which firearms trait would you drop?

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
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(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)

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Posted by: J envy.5270

J envy.5270

well, now your just being nit picky. I’m not saying i’m the best at anything, but i have played all 9 classes a really good amount across all game modes(some more than others obviously, but i play all classes to learn them, learn strengths and weaknesses, and changes every patch).

I remember using necromancer backline when WvW was still bursting with people(aka up until 2nd bday of GW2), and i remember full well that it had the blood magic trait line which made use of vampiric. It may not be current Meta of Meta’s but it was a meta, frankly i still use blood magic on my necro when i WvW on zerg fights.

I’m not trying to be confrontational i was mostly trying to clear out things, but my whole point as i have said a million times, is to get a message to Anet of giving engis and thiefs a unique trait party buff. The minor details aren’t really the whole point so i hope to move past that.
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As far as the mesmer alacrity is concerned, please refer back to the original post, i haven’t changed it since i posted the topic a few days ago and i remember saying that i wasn’t sure about the mesmer. But alacrity as i said, comes from the chronomancer trait line, 2 ways to get it: shatter skills and wells if traited. This means that even if you decide not to use wells with skills 6,7,8,9,0 you would still have access to alacrity.

Chronomancers in PvE tend to put as much quickness and alacrity in their builds to support the party, which is great as they are not sacrificing their best PvE build to give support which ultimately makes them a favorite for raids, which gives insane amount of Alacrity uptime(i remember it being almost 100% back when i was raiding in december lol).
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Overall, i want the conversion about this topic to be more constructive so i will stay neutral about this. As far as where the unique trait is gonna go traitwise, for me its not as important as long as it finds its use(whether pve,pvp,wvw). It could be condi dmg, condi duration, healing, vitality….although i do have my personal preference as shown in my other replies, its not as important as Anet first implementing it(their choice), and finally get some equality in terms of having a trait party buff.

Kamote
Guild Wars Vet since 05
multi-class all game modes

(edited by J envy.5270)

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

well, now your just being nit picky. I’m not saying i’m the best at anything, but i have played all 9 classes a really good amount across all game modes(some more than others obviously, but i play all classes to learn them, learn strengths and weaknesses, and changes every patch).

I remember using necromancer backline when WvW was still bursting with people(aka up until 2nd bday of GW2), and i remember full well that it had the blood magic trait line which made use of vampiric. It may not be current Meta of Meta’s but it was a meta, frankly i still use blood magic on my necro when i WvW on zerg fights.

I’m not trying to be confrontational i was mostly trying to clear out things, but my whole point as i have said a million times, is to get a message to Anet of giving engis and thiefs a unique trait party buff. The minor details aren’t really the whole point so i hope to move past that.
__________________________________________________________________

As far as the mesmer alacrity is concerned, please refer back to the original post, i haven’t changed it since i posted the topic a few days ago and i remember saying that i wasn’t sure about the mesmer. But alacrity as i said, comes from the chronomancer trait line, 2 ways to get it: shatter skills and wells if traited. This means that even if you decide not to use wells with skills 6,7,8,9,0 you would still have access to alacrity.

Chronomancers in PvE tend to put as much quickness and alacrity in their builds to support the party, which is great as they are not sacrificing their best PvE build to give support which ultimately makes them a favorite for raids, which gives insane amount of Alacrity uptime(i remember it being almost 100% back when i was raiding in december lol).
__________________________________________________________________

Overall, i want the conversion about this topic to be more constructive so i will stay neutral about this. As far as where the unique trait is gonna go traitwise, for me its not as important as long as it finds its use(whether pve,pvp,wvw). It could be condi dmg, condi duration, healing, vitality….although i do have my personal preference as shown in my other replies, its not as important as Anet first implementing it(their choice), and finally get some equality in terms of having a trait party buff.

I wasn’t being nitpicky. I was saying that your idea isnt as easy as it seems. When I mentioned alacrity I meant that you might not want a buff that requires an entire trait line, plus several utilities to pull off. A condi party buff would take away from the meta traits in engie condi builds. Healing power or vitality would be in a line that wasn’t used, which is what happened to necro party buff. You need to find where the trait will go and whether it interferes with most meta builds.

You don’t want them giving you what you want but having them take away what you wanted even more.

I’m still not sure you want what you are suggesting. But I’ll bump your cause either way.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)

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Posted by: J envy.5270

J envy.5270

honestly Anet can just combine Sharpshooter and hematic focus, as one trait, as they have done so before with others. Then just place the new minor trait(whether its 150 condi dmg or 150 expertise or w/e it may be). In the end, if the engi finally gets a trait party buff(w/e it may be) in any of the future patches, its a win in my book.

We can always discuss how good or how bad the said trait was after we have tested it personally.

Kamote
Guild Wars Vet since 05
multi-class all game modes

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Posted by: gnollbane.3620

gnollbane.3620

A passive buff like necro, but this one summons a mine and med packs on your ally crit hits 4cd. Basically bunker down aoe buff for your group

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Posted by: Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

I think the reason why the engineer don’t have this kind of trait is because it’s the sole profession that rely on technology, turning their back to magic. These kind of trait feel like a magical aura affecting allies. The Engineer have to rely on “tools” that they create to affect their surrounding, this is exactly what we see with turret and gyro.

No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.

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Posted by: gnollbane.3620

gnollbane.3620

Danir you could easy work the idea of a aoe party buff into a technology side of things.
O, I have a gadget on my arm that puts this aoe buff onto my party and gives X.

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Posted by: DGraves.3720

DGraves.3720

1. Thief has Venom share which is actually a unique pay buff without an icon. No other class has anything close.

2. The concept behind engineer being a jack of all trades diminishes “unique buffs”. Technically all the throw elixer options are unique buffs depending in the effect. But it’s random which makes it so poor.

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

1. Thief has Venom share which is actually a unique pay buff without an icon. No other class has anything close.

2. The concept behind engineer being a jack of all trades diminishes “unique buffs”. Technically all the throw elixer options are unique buffs depending in the effect. But it’s random which makes it so poor.

1. Venom share produces an icon.

2. He meant party buffs, but you are correct in that engineer has a tendency to use technology to copy the effects of others classes (water fields or moa even).

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

honestly Anet can just combine Sharpshooter and hematic focus, as one trait, as they have done so before with others. Then just place the new minor trait(whether its 150 condi dmg or 150 expertise or w/e it may be). In the end, if the engi finally gets a trait party buff(w/e it may be) in any of the future patches, its a win in my book.

We can always discuss how good or how bad the said trait was after we have tested it personally.

Fine, I’ll play your game.

Remove stimulant supplier, make it “modern medicine” allies receive 150 vitality by being in your presence.

Look at the list on the bottom of this page https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Effect
You want something like the aoe effects in that list. Technically thief already has venoms, it’s engineer that is lacking.

But it’s not uncommon for engineer to be left out, after all they are the only class without signets.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)

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Posted by: DGraves.3720

DGraves.3720

1. Thief has Venom share which is actually a unique pay buff without an icon. No other class has anything close.

2. The concept behind engineer being a jack of all trades diminishes “unique buffs”. Technically all the throw elixer options are unique buffs depending in the effect. But it’s random which makes it so poor.

1. Venom share produces an icon.

2. He meant party buffs, but you are correct in that engineer has a tendency to use technology to copy the effects of others classes (water fields or moa even).

I didn’t know there was an icon for venom share. I thought it was only for the venom effect itself. Won’t check. Will just agree.

I’m aware. But that’s the niche design.

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

1. Thief has Venom share which is actually a unique pay buff without an icon. No other class has anything close.

2. The concept behind engineer being a jack of all trades diminishes “unique buffs”. Technically all the throw elixer options are unique buffs depending in the effect. But it’s random which makes it so poor.

1. Venom share produces an icon.

2. He meant party buffs, but you are correct in that engineer has a tendency to use technology to copy the effects of others classes (water fields or moa even).

I didn’t know there was an icon for venom share. I thought it was only for the venom effect itself. Won’t check. Will just agree.

I’m aware. But that’s the niche design.

I am confused what the different between icon and venom effect means to you. Venom sharing is baseline now, so whenever you use a venom an icon appears on everyone’s bar that counts the uses left.

I think he was looking for niche effects. Because so far the JOAT design of engineer has left it with no unique abilities in exchange for access to almost all effects of the other classes. To reverse this so OP will understand

Here is a list of abilities engineer can mimic, and how many other classes have access to the effect.

  • Convert conditions: 2; Guardian and Necromancer
  • Being able to convert/remove 12 conditions: 4; Necromancer, Guardian, Ranger/Druid, Warrior
  • 9 combo fields: 1; Ranger and unlike engi he can’t access them all in the same build
  • Transfer incoming damage: 2; Mesmer, and Ranger
  • Stealth: 3/4?; Mesmer, Druid/Ranger, Thief, and Underwater Elementalist
  • Avoiding lethal damage: 3, Elementalist, Berserker, Necromancer
  • Boon removal: 3; Mesmer, Necro, and Revenant
  • Super speed: 3; Revenant/Herald, Ranger, and Tempest
  • Elixir X: 0, as it confers access to 5 elites; Tornado and Whirlpool from Elementalist, Rampage from Warrior, Plague from Necromancer, and Moa from Mesmer
  • Elixir U: 0, as it confers access to 4 utilities; Haste and Smokescreen from Thieves, Frenzy from Warrior, and Wall of Reflection from Guardian
  • Reveal: 3; Ranger, Herald, Dragonhunter

The only things it hasn’t managed to steal are:

  • Conditions/Control Effects: slow, fear, torment and taunt. Unsurpisingly these effects can be found on Ranger, Revenant, Necromancer, Mesmer, and Warrior. Because engie still has top condition dps in raids, they are of course going to give them to condition builds that are lackluster, and can match their flavor. (For instance torment greatly improved the mesmer scepter, and psychological pain is a very mesmery thing).
  • Dark Fields, Boon Corruption: You’ll probably get dark fields because Anet is lazy and wants you have access to all fields. But never corruption, that stays with necro alone.
  • Teleport/Shadow step: These are as magical as you can get. They have heritage to gw1 and the schools of magic. If you get them for some reason it will only be in an elite spec and there will need to be an in game reason.
  • Signets: You won’t get these because they are magic, you will mimic these but the skill type will not be signet.

I’m still in favor of OP getting his trait. But there are reasons why Engie shouldn’t have everything. Thought apparently there are reasons why Engie should be able to use other classes elites on shorter cooldown and longer duration.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)

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Posted by: Rude.9485

Rude.9485

I think Engineer would work with like a technological portal thematically.

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Posted by: DGraves.3720

DGraves.3720

I am confused what the different between icon and venom effect means to you. Venom sharing is baseline now, so whenever you use a venom an icon appears on everyone’s bar that counts the uses left.

Range of Effect / Persistent Effects. Vampiric Aura for instance produces an icon specifically for Vampiric Aura. Venom Share never will produce a range of effect icon saying “you’re in a venom share area” or “you’ve been effected by venom share” or anything like that.

It’s a technical activation thing. The point is that Venom Share is the class buff for thieves. There is a field, it’s just invisible, and only appears upon activation of a skill.

(edited by DGraves.3720)

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

I think Engineer would work with like a technological portal thematically.

Scarlet is a perfect example of an in game reason why engineer would be able to make portals. However the watchwork devices are already available to everyone.

It’s a long way until they can do ground targeted teleports.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

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Posted by: J envy.5270

J envy.5270

i personally dont consider thief venoms as a unique trait party buff, first of all venoms come from utility skills not the trait line like empower allies and so forth.

I know what your gonna say next, “what about alacrity?”, yes i have thought about that and i have mentioned it before as well as my original post, that i wasn’t sure whether to add alacrity. Second, venoms act more like tempest aura than it is alacrity. Alacrity can be used without having to use wells, venoms are not. Third, venoms are so different from spotter and empower allies that the only thing they have similiar to each other is that both of them are considered a buff, party buff yes, but not a unique trait party buff.

Also i’ve never seen venom share thiefs used in PvE (where thiefs are being somewhat neglected), i have seen a fair share of venom share thiefs in WvW zergs, and in unranked PvPs(not esports compatible), but thats about as far as i’ve seen venoms used overall.

Obviously i would prefer engineers be prioritized to have a trait party buff over a thief as i main an engi, but i also play all classes for all game modes and i understand that it’s not fair for thiefs too(mostly for PvE purposes).

Kamote
Guild Wars Vet since 05
multi-class all game modes

(edited by J envy.5270)

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Posted by: Rude.9485

Rude.9485

I think Engineer would work with like a technological portal thematically.

Scarlet is a perfect example of an in game reason why engineer would be able to make portals. However the watchwork devices are already available to everyone.

It’s a long way until they can do ground targeted teleports.

Honestly Id be fine with like a Mesmer sort of portal really if they can make it somewhat unique.

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Posted by: DGraves.3720

DGraves.3720

I think Engineer would work with like a technological portal thematically.

Scarlet is a perfect example of an in game reason why engineer would be able to make portals. However the watchwork devices are already available to everyone.

It’s a long way until they can do ground targeted teleports.

Honestly Id be fine with like a Mesmer sort of portal really if they can make it somewhat unique.

#insertportalgun

Copyright issues galore!

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

I think Engineer would work with like a technological portal thematically.

Scarlet is a perfect example of an in game reason why engineer would be able to make portals. However the watchwork devices are already available to everyone.

It’s a long way until they can do ground targeted teleports.

Honestly Id be fine with like a Mesmer sort of portal really if they can make it somewhat unique.

#insertportalgun

Copyright issues galore!

Scarlet was a Engie/Mes dual class like gw1 characters, but yeah expect some day Engies have a new trait with portal tools.

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: J envy.5270

J envy.5270

Engi has some useless gadgets like battle ram, that can be switched to a portal gadget.

Kamote
Guild Wars Vet since 05
multi-class all game modes

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

Engi has some useless gadgets like battle ram, that can be switched to a portal gadget.

The only issue I can see with them gaining it is that everyone already gained access to the watchwork portal consumables. Also mesmer would flip their kitten if engie had both moa and portal.

However. I already said that engie is likely to gain dark fields somehow (after all they have 8/9). And all classes that have dark fields also have teleport/shadowstep.

Now mesmer gained access to dark fields with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gravity_Well
And for our world antigravity fields are more often science fiction (non magical) than fantasy (magical).

It’s possible that engie could get some type of gravity based elite spec that gave them access dark fields and also shadowstep.

The spec could be based in magnetism becaue engie has always shown the ability to produce magnetic fields. And because magnetism can affect gravity.

So a shadowstep would be a sped up version of
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetic_Leap

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

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Posted by: J envy.5270

J envy.5270

Yes theres the watchwork portals but those are pricey….Engineers already have alot of skills that are copied from other classes whats one more useful skill compared to the number of useless skills that the engineer has:

like….Purge Gyro, Shredder Gyro, Throw Mine, Personal Battering Ram…and imo these healing skills are pretty useless to me to(med kit, AED)…

Kamote
Guild Wars Vet since 05
multi-class all game modes

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Posted by: Artaz.3819

Artaz.3819

Vulnerability applied by Engineer now does break bar damage. (It needs to be a “special” debuff to accommodate for Vulnerability being overwritten) Done.

EDIT: And fix Rifle (1200 range and remove the clunky feel – Net Shot cast time/travel time was the first step and hopefully one of many)

(edited by Artaz.3819)

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Posted by: Xyonon.3987

Xyonon.3987

Vulnerability applied by Engineer now does break bar damage. (It needs to be a “special” debuff to accommodate for Vulnerability being overwritten) Done.

Still wouldn’t give us a solid spot :/ It’s definityl not cc we lack.

Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”

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Posted by: J envy.5270

J envy.5270

Yup, we got tons of cc as it is.

Kamote
Guild Wars Vet since 05
multi-class all game modes