Guild Wars 2

Reduced immobilize duration on Net Turret by 1s.
yep, turrets needed a nerf. good job anet.
./sarcasm off

After all, it isn’t like they’re static, destructible, with an absurd hitbox and have the only function to immobilize.

Oh, wait, they are exactly like that. And this is, like, the third nerf in a row. No, excuse me, one was a tooltip fix.

I was expecting something a lot worse his was kinda funny, in all seriousness net turret is only good in a 1v1 and maybe a 2v2 provided they ant bursty types, so that could be a reason to nerf it a bit for the 1v1 factor but for a game that is apparently not balanced around 1v1s i say “the kitten”

Turrets are so op that they are destroyed with one greatsword roll.

ukuni.8745:

I was expecting something a lot worse his was kinda funny, in all seriousness net turret is only good in a 1v1 and maybe a 2v2 provided they ant bursty types, so that could be a reason to nerf it a bit for the 1v1 factor but for a game that is apparently not balanced around 1v1s i say “the kitten”

A lot worse? It was supposed to be a 3s immobilize every 10s, it will be 2s every 13s.
From 30% immobilize to ~15.3%. They halved its only effect in a couple months.

While still retaining all the weaknesses and bugs.

I think the reason for nerfing was pretty horrible. Someone did a net shot to supply crate on a dev and he forgot to block or turn invulnerability on for counterplay. Getting nerfed because of a very specific combo, and its also an indirecterf to the supply crate drops.

Its okay we’ll live through the nerf and just avoid net turret and its bugs in general, but I really wish they would think twice on it.

My theory is that it’s because of stacking immobilize. I don’t think that this won’t be the last immobilize skill change/nerf we see in the future…. then later down the road they’ll change how immobilize works again… and the 3s will stick : /

the best thing about this is that other classes who have weapon swap have similarly strong immobilizes (like nec pet lmao) (not even going to mention sword / LB war with the immob utility – stack 12 s immob yolo every 25s max)

Happy they didnt nerf HT though thats the last straw keeping kitten together

i still find it stupid engineers shouldnt be pusnished for people not using stun breakers

why not nerf stun and knockback spamming warriors or mesmer’s dazing illusions instead

plus how hard is it to cleanse the immobilize after you get rid of the stun

stun break+use a Block or condi cleanse why was that so hard ?(blocks alone last 3-4 seconds)

ok i ll accept th duration nerf but
why the long fire rate then?
now net turret wont even be used since it ll never shoot a target before dieing
specially with the glorious ai that makes them useless in groups

So a CC based elite is very potent at CC? Who knew.
Better yet lets do a collateral nerf to a utility skill that was actually close to, well at least entertaining and that isn’t used seriously.

Boy they must really rage if they get hit by moa morph, or a warrior who essentially IS a walking supply crate (mad healing, imob on longbow, stun,stun,stun).

Manuhell.2759:

ukuni.8745:

I was expecting something a lot worse his was kinda funny, in all seriousness net turret is only good in a 1v1 and maybe a 2v2 provided they ant bursty types, so that could be a reason to nerf it a bit for the 1v1 factor but for a game that is apparently not balanced around 1v1s i say “the kitten”

A lot worse? It was supposed to be a 3s immobilize every 10s, it will be 2s every 13s.
From 30% immobilize to ~15.3%. They halved its only effect in a couple months.

While still retaining all the weaknesses and bugs.

when i said alot worse i ment a long rant about nerfs, but it wasnt, just a guy voicing the obvious, the OP’s post made me laugh a bit inside and the fact that anet is oblivious to the issue adds to it, but yea i dont think any one is going to notice this change since no one cares about turrets in there current state.

the nerf is to supply crate. not net turret. if you are using the actual net turret in pvp, rethink your strategy. as for pve the only scenario i use net turret is for the first boss in grawl fractal so slight nerf there.

ellesee.8297:

the nerf is to supply crate. not net turret. if you are using the actual net turret in pvp, rethink your strategy. as for pve the only scenario i use net turret is for the first boss in grawl fractal so slight nerf there.

Yeah, let’s nerf engineers only 1 good elite. i’m also not using the actual turret, and won’t be using especially after this well needed nerf. man, those turrets were so OP!

the engineer’s one good elite that absolutely devastated 1v1s and really turned around team fights.

@There are a couple of outlier abiliies on engineer that are really strong.

Engineer nerf coming in, we will become either more pathetic then now ?

1: Engineer

ellesee.8297:

the engineer’s one good elite that absolutely devastated 1v1s and really turned around team fights.

With a 180s cooldown, a rather flashy cast animation and turrets that end destroyed in the first 10 seconds.

But sure, if there is even one good effect, that must be nerfed. We aren’t supposed to do something good.

so the nerf applies once every 180 seconds. big deal. engis are one of the best pvp classes in the game right now and borderline overpowered. the supply crate and poison grenade nerf were needed. we have tons of poison with pistol 2 and a whole minute of poison with the grenade if they stood in the aoe, of which there were 3. even after these changes we will still be one of the best classes in pvp. supply crate will still be nothing short of amazing after the nerf. stop whining. think about the good things: box of nails buff. battle/energy combo.

kitten fanboys any nerf by ANET is glorified by them,Engineer is not overpowered, our equivalents of signets (trait skills) have very long cooldown, dmg is a joke, skills and sigils bugged (DO I HAVE TO REMIND – THAT INCREASE OF BOON STIL DOES NOT WORK ON SOME TRAITS – STILLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AFTER FREAKING 2 YEARS ) Ehhh I have no more words to add…..

ellesee.8297:

so the nerf applies once every 180 seconds. big deal. engis are one of the best pvp classes in the game right now and borderline overpowered. the supply crate and poison grenade nerf were needed. we have tons of poison with pistol 2 and a whole minute of poison with the grenade if they stood in the aoe, of which there were 3. even after these changes we will still be one of the best classes in pvp. supply crate will still be nothing short of amazing after the nerf. stop whining. think about the good things: box of nails buff. battle/energy combo.

And everytime one decides to use net turret, before removing it forever from his utility bar.
The supply crate nerf wasn’t needed at all – at least, not before making turrets actually useful. If people can’t dodge a giant crate falling from above or use a stun breaker after that it is just their fault, especially with the long cooldown it has got.
The only thing i concur with is the poison grenade – but it is still another nerf that won’t be repaid in any way.

And a quarter second reduction on a crappy skill makes it just a crappy skill that can be casted faster.
Especially when it was instant to start with.
Battle/energy? That’s new only if you use the rifle, anyway.

And while you do say that engineers are one of the best classes in pvp (and that’s just your opinion), facts say that we’re one of the least played classes. And we continue getting nerfed in any game mode despite of that.

Of course, the thing about engineers is that they lack the WTF BURST OMG that other classes have. In my turret control builds, I’ve chained supply crate to lock down opponents before, and the end result of that lockdown was to safely use blowtorch and wait 10 seconds for the burn to take full effect.

If we had a killshot or backstab or eviscerate or mindrack or pistolwhip or 100 blades or something along those lines, this would be an extremely lethal control. But we don’t… also the whole control chain is reliant on opponents neither breaking stun nor cleansing the immobilize, which gives it two points of failure as compared to the standard single failure point that most CC has.

maciora.9542:

kitten fanboys any nerf by ANET is glorified by them,Engineer is not overpowered, our equivalents of signets (trait skills) have very long cooldown, dmg is a joke, skills and sigils bugged (DO I HAVE TO REMIND – THAT INCREASE OF BOON STIL DOES NOT WORK ON SOME TRAITS – STILLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AFTER FREAKING 2 YEARS ) Ehhh I have no more words to add…..

we don’t have anything equivalent to a signet. that’s a silly comparison.
damage is not a joke. where did you get that idea? is your damage a joke? take a look at all the great builds here on this forum.
bugged sigils isn’t an engi problem. what skills are bugged?
what boon duration traits are bugged? what boon duration traits do we even have besides potent elixirs?

@manuhell
nobody uses the actual net turret in pvp. if you do you’re gimping yourself. i will still use net turret int he only scenario that i actually use it after the nerf. so nothing’s changed.
you can be sure i’ll be using battle/energy with my p/p. i got rid of battle for energy because i took prot injection over vigor. now i get the best of both worlds.
box of nails isn’t a crappy skill. i use it now even with the long cast time.
engineers being one of the best pvp classes isn’t just my opinion, it’s the opinion of a lot of high level pvp players. that’s why it’s getting nerfed. and these nerfs are so small i don’t even know why anyone is complaining.
we may be the least played class in pve, but in pvp there’s been a huge influx of engineers to solo and team queues. why do you think that is?
you can’t write off supply crate because oh yeah i can dodge it so anyone who can’t deserves to be absolutely annihilated. it’s an undeniably powerful elite that wins 1v1s and turns teamfights around. that is the definition of an ability that needs a nerf. and we didn’t even get a huge nerf to it. it stil functions the same way except of a 1 second immobilize reduction every 180 seconds. really? you’re gonna cry over this?

Turrets are so broken that if we continue to nerf them they will circle around to op… Bold strategy.

Overall this was a minor hit to supply drop, not many engis have room on there bar for net turret anyways. It just sucks that we don’t have access to another form of CC like knockback or knockdown, stun, chill, imbob, or daze… Oh wait

IMO this change does nothing to effect playstyle at all, even if you ran net turret.

I think you missed the point of the thread. Why/ where the hell did this come from? You are correct, it does nothing to change play style at all. Ironic the dec. 10th patch was aimed at creating build diversity… and here we are literally being told to not even look at turrets.

^
Ill agree with that, build diversity was hit a bit. I just dislike QQ posts (not the OPs fault)

I normally dislike qq threads as well but this is really out of left field.

I never use turrets so I do not care. B

ellesee.8297:

@manuhell
nobody uses the actual net turret in pvp. if you do you’re gimping yourself. i will still use net turret int he only scenario that i actually use it after the nerf. so nothing’s changed.

And neither in pve, yet they’re nerfing it there too.

ellesee.8297:

you can be sure i’ll be using battle/energy with my p/p. i got rid of battle for energy because i took prot injection over vigor. now i get the best of both worlds.

As can other classes. It changes nothing, basically.

ellesee.8297:

box of nails isn’t a crappy skill. i use it now even with the long cast time.

You, and no one else, it would seem. The area is so small people have no problem to move out, assuming they even care to do it – that bleeding is terribly poor, the only issue is the cripple.

ellesee.8297:

engineers being one of the best pvp classes isn’t just my opinion, it’s the opinion of a lot of high level pvp players. that’s why it’s getting nerfed. and these nerfs are so small i don’t even know why anyone is complaining.
we may be the least played class in pve, but in pvp there’s been a huge influx of engineers to solo and team queues. why do you think that is?

Because we’ve got a couple builds that are relatively easy to use and still effective, as the whole point of pvp is literally standing on a point. And bombs are perfect to do that.

ellesee.8297:

you can’t write off supply crate because oh yeah i can dodge it so anyone who can’t deserves to be absolutely annihilated. it’s an undeniably powerful elite that wins 1v1s and turns teamfights around. that is the definition of an ability that needs a nerf. and we didn’t even get a huge nerf to it. it stil functions the same way except of a 1 second immobilize reduction every 180 seconds. really? you’re gonna cry over this?

Undeniably? The only thing it is useful for is the initial stun and immobilize, and they just nerfed it. Those turrets get destroyed in seconds. Be it pve or pvp.
And we have a long list of bug for them, yet fixing them has never been a priority. Just nerfing them, again and again.

You say that it turns fight? Battle Standard and Tome of Courage with his full heal do this as well. Are they nerfing their ress or full heal? No.

lol lots of people who use tool kit in pvp use box of nails regardless if they are power or condi. it has a lot of uses. now it’s even better because the ridiculous cast time is halved. please just speak for yourself.

using battle/energy for my p/p was directed at your funny comment: “Battle/energy? That’s new only if you use the rifle, anyway.” i hope you know that if you use both battle/energy now, only one of them will work.

“the whole point of pvp is literally standing on a point”. lol that’s the silliest thing i’ve read all day. what rank are you? do you even pvp?

are you telling me a 1200 range giant aoe stun plus an additional immobilize that also provides aoe burning and heals is bad? they nerfed the immobilize by ONE second every 180 seconds. GAMECHANGER.

battle standard and light of deliverance both have really, really, really long cast times. and they’re hardly used. probably because they have really, really, really long cast times. now supply crate. that’s used 100% of the time. what a silly comparison.

ellesee.8297:

lol lots of people who use tool kit in pvp use box of nails regardless if they are power or condi. it has a lot of uses. now it’s even better because the ridiculous cast time is halved. please just speak for yourself.

They didn’t halve it. They’re reducing it from 1s to 3/4s.

ellesee.8297:

using battle/energy for my p/p was directed at your funny comment: “Battle/energy? That’s new only if you use the rifle, anyway.” i hope you know that if you use both battle/energy now, only one of them will work.

Yep, i admit i hadn’t thought about that. I thought you was talking about using a rifle with it.

ellesee.8297:

“the whole point of pvp is literally standing on a point”. lol that’s the silliest thing i’ve read all day. what rank are you? do you even pvp?

I was around rank 40, but i stopped playing it because i was finding it quite boring after a while. Always the same maps, always the same game mode. More variety would be appreciated.
And yes, the point of pvp is standing in a point and staying alive. It doesn’t matter if you would be useless two meters out of there or if you can’t kill anything. As long as you’re inside there and alive.
And that’s why bombs are fine to use there, and turrets are so bad in every other mode.

ellesee.8297:

are you telling me a 1200 range giant aoe stun plus an additional immobilize that also provides aoe burning and heals is bad? they nerfed the immobilize by ONE second every 180 seconds. GAMECHANGER.

No, i’m saying that a 1200 range giant aoe stun plus an additional immobilize is bad for a 180s cooldown, as the turrets won’t last more than a couple seconds; and even if there are the bags to heal yourself there, the presence of turrets makes that whole area a giant target – especially with pve bosses – making said heal risky to get, and potentially useless.
They nerfed the immobilize there and at the actual net turret, with the third nerf in a row, and they’re still doing nothing to address all the problems and the insane list of bugs they’ve got.

ellesee.8297:

battle standard and light of deliverance both have really, really, really long cast times. and they’re hardly used. probably because they have really, really, really long cast times. now supply crate. that’s used 100% of the time. what a silly comparison.

They were used all the time when i used to do pvp. Along with stability.
Obviously they’ve got appropriate cast times…what do you expect, full area heals and area ress + buffs being instant? And people can’t even do anything about the banner once it has been cast as it is indestructible, unlike turret.

Also, the major effect from supply crate can be dodged or removed with a stun breaker. And supply crate is always used for a simple reason: it is the only decent elite we’ve got. Elixir X is too random to be reliable, and mortar…heh, is mortar.

And those nerfs will be inflicted upon pve as well, where turrets are already bad enough…

^
This cat fight is funny guys, and for a “nerf” that’s not even a “nerf”

The community has spoken and accept for a few outliers we are ok with the net turret change… accept it.

They directly nerfed me and maybe two other Engineers!

Honestly I chuckled after reading it, thanks for the laugh ArenaNet!

Its still stupid and NO i won’t accept this hilariously bad line of balancing. They nerf a elite by killing off a skill that struggled to be useful anyways? That is no good policy(talk about kicking someone on the ground). Whats next, are they going to halve the medkit heal because it gives such a large heal in supply drop? I mean everyone is using healing turret anyways, medkit isn’t competitive so you should switch to heal turret anyways. No harm done eh?

They have goofed up badly with immobilize stacking and now they are band aiding.

Id rather they remove the turret completely from supply drop instead of nerfing the utility skill that it actually is because of its appearance in a 180 sec recharging elite. And 3 down to 2 seconds, given how slow it attacks is huge. A 1/3rd nerf on anything is big.

Or had they had any decent fiber but still wanted to go through with this they could have reduced its refire rate at an equal measure meaning no hit in up time for it as a turret, but the immobilize hitting with the elite will still wear off sooner. Goal achieved.

But no, who uses skill type X anyways, lets just hammer (balance) it out with a sledgehammer since noones ever going to use that anyway. What a wonderful vicious cycle. Wonder why we get stale metas?

Im sorry but the principle annoys me greatly, and since i actually DO play and experiment with things such as medkit and gadgets and the like i don’t want them to turn careless with things that are not “meta”.

Manuhell.2759:

You, and no one else, it would seem. The area is so small people have no problem to move out, assuming they even care to do it – that bleeding is terribly poor, the only issue is the cripple.

I know a great many, including myself who currently use this skill. It is spectacular to slow down those coming at you as you cast box of nails then swap to EG and instantly cast acid bomb. Another common use is to slow down pursuers on your tail just before you use rocket boots, to make sure you put good space between you and the group if you need good space.

No one I know uses it for the bleed, that is just a small bonus. Everyone I know uses it for the AoE cripple.

Rezzet.3614:

i still find it stupid engineers shouldnt be pusnished for people not using stun breakers

Very many stun breakers do not cleanse immobilize. Some of ours do not.

ellesee.8297:

the nerf is to supply crate. not net turret.

No, they very specifically stated it is to net turret. They net turret just happens to drop from supply crate also. I doubt they have a system that allows the game to recognize if the turret came from supply crate or was places by a player as a utility skill.

Hambow warriors can apply a aoe stun+damage every 7.5 secs

It’s beyond belief that the same Anet that sees no problem with that thinks a single target immob every 10 secs needs nerfing.

Anet are really not interested in balance. They have a few classes they want everyone to play in tPvP (war, mes, necro, guardian) and other classes will be configured to make sure they don’t get in the way of that.

Honestly most immobilize skills will likely be seeing some kind of nerf in the future simply due to the strength of the condition itself. Engineer was basically just the first to get it due to the strength of the turret as a lockdown mechanic. The combination between the supply crates 2 second stun, followed up by an immediate immobilize by the net turret it drops with it was essentially the equivalent of putting down a net turret and over charging it immediately. Putting those two together meant you could literally just lock someone down. Granted sometimes it’s not who you want, but still you can’t deny the strength of it. A player unable to move or dodge is a player that is as good as dead. Most of the people in this thread who are complaining about the change will likely not even see the difference, seeing as the duration of the immobilize will now be the same as Net Shot. Plus honest to god, who runs Net Turret as a utility anyway, save for the few Engineers who still don’t understand that Turrets still aren’t a hugely viable option in terms of build diversity, but are trying to make it work anyway.

If they nerf immob application by strength, net turret would be way down the list, even considering supply crate.

There are classes out there that can keep me immobilised about twice as long as it takes them to kill me, even when I have 25k health and 1900 toughness.

I don’t see how it’d be way down the list in terms of strength. Both Supply Crate and Net Turret allows for the combination of a hard CC and an immobilize, hence why it had the duration reduction. They still either have to wait it out, or use some sort of stun break/condi cleanse to remove both; just now the base immobilize duration matches the duration of the stun. Pin Down on Warrior Longbow also is getting it’s own sort of nerf this upcoming patch as well, though it’s in the form of a longer cast time, and the addition of an actual tell animation.

As for getting immo-stacked to death, Engineers can do it just as well as any other profession that has multiple immobilizes. Hell even with the 1 second reduction, Net Shot, Net Attack and Net Turret give you a 7 second immobilize. Which is more than enough time for anything to kill you, or your target if your stacking it on them.

my personal opinion of this is it is lowering the skill ceiling for other classes.
We as Engineers are the superior profession when it comes to countering every situation we encounter.
Example: Getting stun loads. switch to more stunbreakers. Getting condi to death get more condi cleanse.

Other classes struggle with this and I think they all want to sit in their cookie cutters and moan when we get hard countered.

So supply crate drops once every 180s. It requires a nerf how dare a mechanic that can pin you down have such a ridiculous CD. (Hammer is quicker and can hold you down much longer)

What I think is the fact they lowered the immobilize time it will actually hurt people.

Just as a theory:
a 10 second imob on a 30 second CD is far less effective than a 3 second imob on a 10 second CD.
The longer a duration on something the easier it is to counter. You will use a CD for it.
If you have multiple Imob on shorter CDs and duration they stack better. Imob for 2 seconds, enemy pops CD, pop another they move a little pop another.

Overall the nerfs to engineers are getting a little silly. Poison nade stacking…. Are we serious, people cant dodge out of the pool in one pulse? Turrets OP but spirits that move aren’t? CC that can be ranged op and does 0 damage, but hammer spam isn’t?

There is a serious lack of skill appearing from the faceroll classes. And their voices are screaming louder than ours.

What we have to remember is our class requires skill. We are adaptable we can maintain ourselves in the game. We will keep bugging the faceroll and win with skill determination and class.

So do not fret my fellow engineers, when the time comes and the nerfs stop and the buffs roll in we will march triumphantly into WvW, PvP and PvE and control them all.

My friend I agree that engineer being the most diff class out there. Being constantly nerfed – it will become useless. Even we, uberplayers can not play with some long cooldowns etc, we will be forced to play build we hate, not like etc. I like playing alchemist with 2 elixirs (+1 healing + 1 elite – should not be random – either should be chosen or left only tornado!) and one kit. I dont want to play more kits , it was viable playing one – should I be forced to play multikit build ? Committing this time to play my eng, i was experimenting but ANET is nerfing it beyond recognition, what will be next? FLamethrower evenmore pathetic and slow or what? Have enough slowly, but I am very close to stop playing……

Come on let’s be serious.

They nerfed supply crate which was having way more immobilize than it really should (oh sure you can stun break, cleanse etc but we could say that of almost EVERY broken skill).

They happened to nerf supply crate by nerfing net turret, but it really had less to do with the turret.

Turrets need help. So do pets and suffer from similar “stupidity”. They just act up.
But that is a whole different issue to solve for.

I’d gladly take this nerf and get ANet starting to come up with an answer for the greater AI problem that hits engineers, rangers etc.

We’ve been taking nerfs on turrets for months and they still haven’t fixed almost anything about them. Heh, one of the few fixes was changing the tooltip instead of the skill itself.
What makes you think they’ll finally fix them after this?
Or should we wait after the next nerf? Or the one after that?

What makes this ridiculous is that the exact second they feel something even remotely get strong on a profession outside of warrior, they are quick to discuss a nerf. Yet they in now way show any of this initiative with the lengthy list of bugs or needed fixes.

I had a conversation with Josh Davis and explained that situation while comparing it to the Warrior immobilize capabilities. To make it short, he explained to me the Devs think the immobilize condition is a bit over the top and they look at possible solutions to limit its impact for both Pvp and Pve.

But yeah I think reducing the condition duration is not a good idea, active counterplay sounds a more approriated solution to me.

That 4 second stun nerf on a 3 minute cooldown was needed to stop the current meta of engineer train going through all of WvW. It’s not like Anets favorite class can stun more everyfew seconds or something.