Guild Wars 2

I just tested all the turrets in our pvp lounge. I asked my friend to simply attack each turret to see how long they will last now. He was on his mesmer using great sword standing at point blank range using auto attack. Even with the metal plating trait that says turrets take 33% less damage, it took about 2 seconds or so with the GS auto attack at point blank (deals less damage the closer you are) to kill the turrets.

Unfortunately, this new change to turrets not only completely destroyed the turret engi build making it no longer viable, but using any other build that has even a single turret (such as healing turret as nearly every single engi uses) will now be completely useless with fear of it dying in 2 seconds and having to wait anywhere from 20-50 seconds depending on the turret to use it again.

Then maybe use it smartly? Turrets already died that quickly in pvp anyways, and yet, they are still good as far as I seen. placing them before or during the chaos can make a big difference sometimes.

I wasn’t showing here how to play turret engi. What I was demonstrating that an attack that virtually deals almost no damage at close range, destroys a turret in a mere 2 seconds. I didn’t test it yet but my guess is at 1200 range, the mesmer gs auto attack will kill it in one full attack. This will also affect the (litterally) only useful engineer elite skill that probably 99% of engis use. It will essentially become an aoe stun attack that drops bandages now.

Decap engi’s were an abomination that needed to be killed. I am glad A-net did the right thing and destroyed them for the benefit of the rest of us.

Eight Samurai.6840:

I wasn’t showing here how to play turret engi. What I was demonstrating that an attack that virtually deals almost no damage at close range, destroys a turret in a mere 2 seconds. I didn’t test it yet but my guess is at 1200 range, the mesmer gs auto attack will kill it in one full attack. This will also affect the (litterally) only useful engineer elite skill that probably 99% of engis use. It will essentially become an aoe stun attack that drops bandages now.

The only reason we all use it is because right now it’s the only elite we have that is very useful at all, but the crate was always pretty lackluster. Any engi worth their salt never relied on it like a crutch, and pretty much used it purely for the manner you suggest anyways: as an aoe stun.

Gern.2978:

Decap engi’s were an abomination that needed to be killed. I am glad A-net did the right thing and destroyed them for the benefit of the rest of us.

Yes turret engi is OP and very much so I totally agree. But fixing the builds and Anet being completely lazy by making the builds unplayable anymore are two different things. They could have lessened the damage of turrets, or made it scale to the engi’s stats so they couldn’t simply go bunker are just 2 right ways to fix them. If they did want to do this nerf, then they had to at least lower the cooldowns on some of the turrets too.

The right thing would be redesign them to give more active play.
Not make them useless. That would be fine only as a band-aid.

Eight Samurai.6840:

Gern.2978:

Decap engi’s were an abomination that needed to be killed. I am glad A-net did the right thing and destroyed them for the benefit of the rest of us.

Yes turret engi is OP and very much so I totally agree. But fixing the builds and Anet being completely lazy by making the builds unplayable anymore are two different things. They could have lessened the damage of turrets, or made it scale to the engi’s stats so they couldn’t simply go bunker are just 2 right ways to fix them. If they did want to do this nerf, then they had to at least lower the cooldowns on some of the turrets too.

Turrets never did very much damage, what made it abomination was all the knockbacks and the subsequent survivability for the engi that accompanied the turrets. What this meant was that a turret engi was near impossible to solo if played right (focused on being tanky not doing damage) but could still take and keep a point without killing the enemies that were at that point. Hence the name: “Decap engi.”

Turrets aren’t the same as decap lol

Gern.2978:

Eight Samurai.6840:

Gern.2978:

Decap engi’s were an abomination that needed to be killed. I am glad A-net did the right thing and destroyed them for the benefit of the rest of us.

Yes turret engi is OP and very much so I totally agree. But fixing the builds and Anet being completely lazy by making the builds unplayable anymore are two different things. They could have lessened the damage of turrets, or made it scale to the engi’s stats so they couldn’t simply go bunker are just 2 right ways to fix them. If they did want to do this nerf, then they had to at least lower the cooldowns on some of the turrets too.

Turrets never did very much damage, what made it abomination was all the knockbacks and the subsequent survivability for the engi that accompanied the turrets. What this meant was that a turret engi was near impossible to solo if played right (focused on being tanky not doing damage) but could still take and keep a point without killing the enemies that were at that point. Hence the name: “Decap engi.”

No the type of turret engi I played was not about destroying my turrets (not always). Many people don’t realize it but it’s actually the rifle turret that deals the most damage throughout a fight because it shoots very fast and goes off about once every second or so. You make it sound like there is only one type of turret engi build which is not true. And you are right if turrets are placed properly they can be very deadly, but after this it will be too risky to use so many long recharge skills then have to rely on rifle and 1 other utility or so to survive the rest of the time.

Turrets are now essentially the same as phantasmals, except they can’t move and have far longer recharge.

I hope i never have to see a turret engi again.

Gern.2978:

Eight Samurai.6840:

Gern.2978:

Decap engi’s were an abomination that needed to be killed. I am glad A-net did the right thing and destroyed them for the benefit of the rest of us.

Yes turret engi is OP and very much so I totally agree. But fixing the builds and Anet being completely lazy by making the builds unplayable anymore are two different things. They could have lessened the damage of turrets, or made it scale to the engi’s stats so they couldn’t simply go bunker are just 2 right ways to fix them. If they did want to do this nerf, then they had to at least lower the cooldowns on some of the turrets too.

Turrets never did very much damage, what made it abomination was all the knockbacks and the subsequent survivability for the engi that accompanied the turrets. What this meant was that a turret engi was near impossible to solo if played right (focused on being tanky not doing damage) but could still take and keep a point without killing the enemies that were at that point. Hence the name: “Decap engi.”

Yeah, it is really crazy how you could pull all of that survivability out of a bunker build right?

Trust me, you say “near impossible to solo” and I say “I could train a monkey to solo them”………..Most of those playing them were not particularly good at it. Most of those playing against them , were worse, in my opinion. What baffle is me is that posters complain that they have difficulty against stationary objects that they declared do no damage.

Does anyone else see the irony of a thief main player coming to the engineer subforums to bash the community and try to inflame the community?

gartz.7013:

I hope i never have to see a turret engi again.

I am still going to use my turrets, so most likely, you will still see them, at about as much as normal.

I wouldn’t worry too much. Not yet anyway. Anet stated in the specialization talk that turrets will be completely overhauled. This might simply be their pilot test to see whether it’s a go or no-go and whether they can make other changes to accommodate this change. Plus, we all know turret engies are one of the top builds (anyone who says otherwise is pretty much lying). And btw the condi damage against turrets should have been implemented long ago. Turrets (though ‘mechanical’ as it seems) are pretty much in the same league as spirits/minions/illusions. They should be damageable from condi spec point of view.

Increase in turret HP should come soon if this change proves too detrimental for the build.

DavyMcB.1603:

I wouldn’t worry too much. Not yet anyway. Anet stated in the specialization talk that turrets will be completely overhauled. This might simply be their pilot test to see whether it’s a go or no-go and whether they can make other changes to accommodate this change. Plus, we all know turret engies are one of the top builds (anyone who says otherwise is pretty much lying). And btw the condi damage against turrets should have been implemented long ago. Turrets (though ‘mechanical’ as it seems) are pretty much in the same league as spirits/minions/illusions. They should be damageable from condi spec point of view.

This has nothing to do with any overhauls.
They want to erase a perceived eyesore from their game, so everything looks clean going into the expansion.

Right now is a critical time: People get hyped for the new expansion, many players return to the game to get ready for it, etc.
They just don’t want those returning people or any potential newcomers to have the impression of a cheese build ruling pvp. The turret nerf has nothing to do with rational decisions about game balance, it’s a decision made for marketing reasons.
There was a lot of unrest in the PvP community and Arena.net simply burned a witch at the stake to appease the masses. That’s all this nerf is about.

If you believe, this change has been brought forward to improve game balance, you probably also believe, it’s justified shell a village with artillery because a single terrorist is hiding in it.
In this analogy, the village is the turret skills, the artillery is the nerf hammer and the terrorist is the sentinel amulet.

Sidizen.9048:

Well if you weren’t a turret engineer the only reason to bring a turret was for the knock back and interrupt (for most builds). Turret engineer was the most annoying build I have ever played against and now nobody will use them, how is this bad!?

I can’t test right now, but have you tested, what happens, when the turret gets blinded before it detonates?
Do you like your thumper being blinded?
Even if all you use your turrets for is decapping a point and then exploding them or decapping a point by exploding them, you are still going to feel the impact of this change.

Stupid afk turret for daily noobs was destroyed good. Other smart uses of turret remain the same even better. Ppl still cry to my whisp about OP turrets priceless:-)

Rozbuska.5263:

Stupid afk turret for daily noobs was destroyed good. Other smart uses of turret remain the same even better. Ppl still cry to my whisp about OP turrets priceless:-)

First test the blind part, then the part about builds remaining the same again…
Because if my theory is correct, you can now no longer pop your healing turret to interrupt a thief doing a smoke stomp.

Rozbuska.5263:

Stupid afk turret for daily noobs was destroyed good. Other smart uses of turret remain the same even better. Ppl still cry to my whisp about OP turrets priceless:-)

I tested turrets and they’re dead. They last seconds vs any real players and that’s it.

If you’re thinking of knockbacks I’d check to see if turrets can be blinded.

naphack.9346:

Rozbuska.5263:

Stupid afk turret for daily noobs was destroyed good. Other smart uses of turret remain the same even better. Ppl still cry to my whisp about OP turrets priceless:-)

First test the blind part, then the part about builds remaining the same again…
Because if my theory is correct, you can now no longer pop your healing turret to interrupt a thief doing a smoke stomp.

Yep. This change hit ALOT more than people thought it would hahaha. I guess theres some small comfort in that when people start to realize how many small tricks simply wont work now.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Rozbuska.5263:

Stupid afk turret for daily noobs was destroyed good. Other smart uses of turret remain the same even better. Ppl still cry to my whisp about OP turrets priceless:-)

I tested turrets and they’re dead. They last seconds vs any real players and that’s it.

If you’re thinking of knockbacks I’d check to see if turrets can be blinded.

4s is everything what I want from turrets and that work still great:-)

Turrets needed to be changed but the manner they did it was sloppy. The equivalent would be to remove the knockbacks/stuns from warrior hammer or remove rapid fir from Rangers.

Making a whole build “useless” is just lazy, but per usual for Anet balance.

Sidizen.9048:

Well if you weren’t a turret engineer the only reason to bring a turret was for the knock back and interrupt (for most builds). Turret engineer was the most annoying build I have ever played against and now nobody will use them, how is this bad!?

So the real reason people complain about turrets is the KB, and not necessarily their damage on the field… With your own logic, why not just completely either remove that trait, change it, or make it a grandmaster trait instead of a minor trait and you won’t see the knockbacks as much or at all. There is the solution if that is the case.

Kupper.8074:

Turrets needed to be changed but the manner they did it was sloppy.

No, the manner they did it was extremely highly requested and very reasonable.

Making player character skills effected by other players skills and stats investment is extremely reasonable.

coglin.1867:

Kupper.8074:

Turrets needed to be changed but the manner they did it was sloppy.

No, the manner they did it was extremely highly requested and very reasonable.

Making player character skills effected by other players skills and stats investment is extremely reasonable.

Reasonable? Hah.
There is nothing reasonable in adding ways to damage them (or to give them additional damage) without also rebalancing their defensive capabilities.
They weren’t designed to be affected by conditions or criticals, thus their hp values and defenses never accounted for it. It is merely logical.

Everyone with a brain knew what the effect would be – killing them off completely.
Cause that was what the people “highly requested”.
People didn’t want a rebalance. People wanted making them worthless. And they did so.
As turrets, they’re useless.
Sure, they may find use in some build (SD) as something you put down, use the overcharge and detonate immediatly.
But as turrets, they’re useless.

(and it isn’t like they fixed the actual issues, anyway – even if you could make them resist for more than 10 seconds, they still offer an extremely passive gameplay when used as they’re supposed to…thus, as turrets; and as i always say, nothing short of a redesign of either overcharges or turrets as a whole will fix it. Assuming they ever intend to do so; and considering they didn’t say anything about it even after nerfing them to oblivion, i assume they won’t)

Sure it is quit reasonable as I see it.

you appear to confuse your subjective opinion with that of objective fact. I for one, thought it was the right move.

I agree that they should have added health in turn. But the change was the right one in my opinion.

Turret engis were getting too ridiculous, trollish, and OP… I’m perfectly happy seeing all the engi tears flowing.

This whole deal with turrets make me completly baffled, i mean turrets by definition or standards should be set up and left so that it can give the benefits for the user of said turret, and i do understand that ther were issue with the turrets, but what is the point in turret if it last only 2-3 seconds against opponent that use only auto-attack, its not even an actual skill.
Curently turrets can only attack once since they wont live long enough to attack second time, against zerker warrior turrets can aswell not exist since he can 1-hit it with one GS auto-attack chain or two if ther is no engough crits.

And to those with the “engi tears” comments, you know fully well that its not how Anet should go with balancing of the game.

Also, if turrets are now regarded as minions than why is it only about weaknesses, what about the strong points of minions that turrets dont have, thats quite a double standard way of dealing with it.

coglin.1867:

Sure it is quit reasonable as I see it.

you appear to confuse your subjective opinion with that of objective fact. I for one, thought it was the right move.

I agree that they should have added health in turn. But the change was the right one in my opinion.

If you’re talking about the first part of my post, then i merely stated facts. They can’t have been balanced for something they were never designed to be hit for to start with.

If you’re talking about the latter part, then we just have different opinions on the matter. As now, i can’t see turrets working as turrets. They can be nice things that do some effect and detonate after that, but they are terrible at being turrets – because used as turrets, they just die far too quickly and even if they stay alive for a bit, all their gameplay is using an overcharge every now and then. No interaction, no complexity, just something extremely boring in my opinion.

Just a side note, it’s been good so far, but let’s continue to keep this thread on track with the discussion. One engi thread was already deleted because it derailed.

Also, last week they said they wanted turrets to be like all other pets in the game, yet they confirmed in previous posts that we will not be able to heal them, give them boons, and they cannot move either. I hope that anet will take this time to really look into turrets further and not just try to appease those complaining about turrets in general.

Per Grouch: We will not be able to heal them in ways that are not already available to them (ATI, Toolkit), but will be able to clear their conditions. Boons are also ‘under consideration,’ pending the results of this current change.

No i think its fair what they did with engies. Turrets still applies good damage.. that was not nerf. Healing is good. Plus still have the cele rifle build. Just more work & skills.

All they did was bring turrets into line with every other summon ie Ranger Spirits, Illusions, Minions etc.

Heimskarl that would work if theyd been designed with that in mind. But they weren’t. Neither there health or armor are designed with crits and condis in mind. Hence why they die faster than ANY non sacrifice based pet in the game now.

Shadelang.3012:

Hence why they die faster than ANY non sacrifice based pet in the game now.

I guess you don’t play a mesmer or you would of known that clones & illusions upon summoning dies upon hit by any aoe, condi or direct damage. & that’s b4 sacrifice. So i don’t know why you complaining. FYI: Even now, turrets have more life then clones.

The nerf to turrets is a solid proof that huge comunity QQ gives results on anet’s class balance. Turrets were not very used in wvw, were not very used in pve (only to blast fields) and an underpowered build in spvp. Now after the nerf the useless and underpowered skills just became even weaker.

While people were qqing about weak turrets, the realy op skills like slick shoes and tool kit were flying under the radar.

Vieux P.1238:

Shadelang.3012:

Hence why they die faster than ANY non sacrifice based pet in the game now.

I guess you don’t play a mesmer or you would of known that clones & illusions upon summoning dies upon hit by any aoe, condi or direct damage. & that’s b4 sacrifice. So i don’t know why you complaining. FYI: Even now, turrets have more life then clones.

Clone skills also have an 8-15s CD on average whether they are shattered or not, don’t conditionally limit other class mechanics, and are also primarily on weapon skills (with the exception of Mirror Images and Decoy) meaning that they don’t eat up a utility slot to use. Clones are also able to accept boons. If all the turrets had the same cooldown as Healing Turret, or maybe were packaged into a Turret Kit so I can play it off as a nice weapon set, then we’d find some equivalence. But there really isn’t.

You know what? I’m going to make another chart. I have nothing better to do tonight.

xDudisx.5914:

The nerf to turrets is a solid proof that huge comunity QQ gives results on anet’s class balance. Turrets were not very used in wvw, were not very used in pve (only to blast fields) and an underpowered build in spvp. Now after the nerf the useless and underpowered skills just became even weaker.

While people were qqing about weak turrets, the realy op skills like slick shoes and tool kit were flying under the radar.

Turrets were a huge problem for the pvp community and ruined numerous players’ experiences.

Yes, this balance change was somewhat of a band-aid fix to the problem, but the balance devs are likely spending the majority of their time and effort working on the expansion content. I personally wish they would spend more time on the current game but that is clearly not the direction anet management wants to go in.

This had to be changed at some point because it has made the past year of pvp awful. It was very much overdo for how completely overpowered the build was in terms of the skill required to completely carry a point and sometimes even a game.

CptCuddles.8912:

xDudisx.5914:

The nerf to turrets is a solid proof that huge comunity QQ gives results on anet’s class balance. Turrets were not very used in wvw, were not very used in pve (only to blast fields) and an underpowered build in spvp. Now after the nerf the useless and underpowered skills just became even weaker.

While people were qqing about weak turrets, the realy op skills like slick shoes and tool kit were flying under the radar.

Turrets were a huge problem for the pvp community and ruined numerous players’ experiences.

Yes, this balance change was somewhat of a band-aid fix to the problem, but the balance devs are likely spending the majority of their time and effort working on the expansion content. I personally wish they would spend more time on the current game but that is clearly not the direction anet management wants to go in.

This had to be changed at some point because it has made the past year of pvp awful. It was very much overdo for how completely overpowered the build was in terms of the skill required to completely carry a point and sometimes even a game.

I used to hunt turret engineers for sport. The fact that so many couldn’t is (or was) a L2P issue. Turret engi had a low skill cap to function but players like myself who actually were effective were a nightmare to deal with. I’d go into why this isn’t an issue since a shoutbow performs the same function sans QQ but it’s not necessary since Anet killed the turret engi today. As far as I’m concerned the pvp “community” can try to deal with my cele rifle… Good luck

CptCuddles.8912:

xDudisx.5914:

The nerf to turrets is a solid proof that huge comunity QQ gives results on anet’s class balance. Turrets were not very used in wvw, were not very used in pve (only to blast fields) and an underpowered build in spvp. Now after the nerf the useless and underpowered skills just became even weaker.

While people were qqing about weak turrets, the realy op skills like slick shoes and tool kit were flying under the radar.

Turrets were a huge problem for the pvp community and ruined numerous players’ experiences.

Yes, this balance change was somewhat of a band-aid fix to the problem, but the balance devs are likely spending the majority of their time and effort working on the expansion content. I personally wish they would spend more time on the current game but that is clearly not the direction anet management wants to go in.

This had to be changed at some point because it has made the past year of pvp awful. It was very much overdo for how completely overpowered the build was in terms of the skill required to completely carry a point and sometimes even a game.

You guys are always saying “turrets” ruined players’ experiences.
That’s utterly wrong. It’s not like everyone was using turrets and engineer had 201495807 different turret builds, which overshadowed all the other builds, etc.

What ruined players’ experiences was a simple build based around the interaction of Sentinel Amulet and fully traited turrets.

Also, there might still be a way to play turreteer in spite of these changes.
How about:
-swap rifled turret barrels for fortified turrets
-swap rocket turret for net turret(shorter cooldown)

Please learn to use healing turret, its not meant to be dropped and left out.
Drop, overcharge pickup is efficient and much better in every way.

It says enough that the “efficient and much better way” to use a turret is by not using it as a turret…

Manuhell.2759:

It says enough that the “efficient and much better way” to use a turret is by not using it as a turret…

It was like that long before these recent changes to turrets, since the OP is referring to it affecting other areas of Engi other than turret engi, it required a clarification.

GrandHaven it brings up a good point though. And its not the only turret that is worth LESS as a turret than it is as a disposable (although now All of them are as such).

The rifle turret is worth far more to static discharge builds than it could EVER be in ANY situation to an actual turret engineer. The build thats supposed to WANT to bring that utility.

If that isn’t evidence of a bad decision somewhere along the line I have no idea what is.

Hey! I’d like to see an improvement to the turrets please. Give them wheels, so they can run in fear. Or just make them topple if no wheels. That will certainly follow the logic of the conditions system of gw2.
Anet did a great job at keeping the pvp in gw1 balanced. But gw2 is bad from this point of view. From the “auto-balance” feature that is heavily abused (to just catch a spot in the winning team) to the major differences in survivability of various classes, to the no-cooldown but not-spammable skills of the thieves. Everything’s broken. So I think the troll of making the turrets bleed is just perfect for GW2, but it’s needing the “running in fear” really badly to be complete.

Turret Engi wasn’t OP, it was just too effective for a build which takes no skill to use. Nerf is great, if Engis wanna turret they’ll have to play smarter.

That’s not the only nobrainer. But balancing classes attempts shouldn’t lead to more illogical mechanics. The big problem I see with the turrets’ new vulnerability is in the realm of logic, not end results. It would’ve been, as other people said, to just adjust the hitpoints instead of making them vulnerable to conditions. And really, is this the only problem one can find when viewing all the classes?
Elementalists have 20 skills and can even deal massive damage from just swapping attunements. Take their attunements! Give them 1 hour cooldown.
All melee classes have strong survivability and condition removal, but not the thieves. Take all condi removal skills from all classes!
Ranger’s bows are more dumb both in efficiency and use than warrior’s and thief’s. Take the weapons away from these two classes.
Mesmers are always 4v1 in pvp. Take their clones skills away!
Don’t stop at turrets with the “balancing” the classes. There’s more to be done, as I’ve writen above.
Or… try to actually test the builds and classes (like you used to do in gw1) and actually bring balance to the game.
I was joking with all suggestions about various classes (which jokes just might happen if this way of balancing the game continues).

Black para goner.7612:

Turret Engi wasn’t OP, it was just too effective for a build which takes no skill to use. Nerf is great, if Engis wanna turret they’ll have to play smarter.

Oh, this again.
Tell me, what did this nerf accomplish in that regard? It only made them far, far easier to destroy. Even assuming one picks’em up before they die, how do you expect one to “play smart” with a total of 10 skills (including autoattack, healing skill, other utility overcharges and/or toolbelt – since you can’t have both at the same time – and the elite)? There are just not enough instruments to work with. It even ends up being really predictable, since there aren’t many ways you can chain attacks. Let alone that it ends up on relying on the autoattack for most of the time.
Get any other class (beside thieves, that would be cheating in the context of this example) and try playing with a single weapon (or attunement) and just their utilities. Tell me how much they can “play smart”, how much they’re effective.
They won’t.

As far as their current design go, using turrets as proper turrets requires them to be tanky enough to deal damage to the opponent and fire some overcharge every now and then; because it has to offset the lack of offensive capabilities engineers get by default.
Is it terribly passive and “braindead”? Sure, and it is also extremely boring. But with the current design, it is either that or nothing.
Did they do anything to change such a design? No, absolutely nothing.
And unless they start doing something in that regard, they’ll just continue to be useless, as far as being a turret goes.

I’ll just copy a suggestion i made some time ago. At least it is an example with some micromanagement and complexity involved.

Anyway, if they can fix the “braindead” AI, that’s good. Turrets could use a more active playstyle – i just don’t think these suggestions can give them one. Making them paper mache isn’t a solution, unless they plan on redesigning them completely; and neither would make them inherently more active.
The problem is about how you can have a full turret build, with a single main weapon, and still have active plays while the turrets are down, assuming that they won’t change some fundamental designs about them (like being immobile, relatively sturdy, and have their cooldown start after their death). Also, they would still have to work with the limitations of the command inputs – as now, we have at most two buttons per turret, one of which is used to destroy them.
The only way i can see, with these premises, would be to rework the overcharge system, along with shifting some power from the turret autoattacks to overcharges (not too much, though, else they become too bursty). Maybe multiple tiers of overcharges? Overcharges would work akin to chain skills as far as inputs go, assuming you’ve got the energy costs to pay for them, and there would be clear tells to understand what overcharge tier is being shot right now (albeit, unlike actual chain skills, it would only use one overcharge at a time). Tier 1 would just be a stronger autoattack with a relatively short cooldown, whereas tier 2 would be the current overcharge. In doing so, the autoattacks’ importance would be diminished, whereas the relevant attacks become more clear (and thus are more avoidable if ones wishes so).
If we want to do things more complex, turrets could have some kind of energy system. Like, they start with X energy when they’re put down, enough for a tier 2 overcharge. Turrets gain Y energy every Z seconds, and overcharges have different energy costs based on the tiers but also have lower cooldowns, thus leaving more micromanagement to the player’s hand. In doing so, there may even be a tier 3 overcharge with high energy costs, so that it needs some build-up time before it can be used after the turret has been put down (like, at least 15s, for example).
Turrets’ energy could then be displayed above each turret’s icon on the skill bar, as a sort-of boon when clicking on turrets, or may even be displayed as graphical changes on the turrets themselves (they could shift to a different model once they have enough energy to use an higher tier of overcharges).

coglin.1867:

Gern.2978:

Eight Samurai.6840:

Gern.2978:

Decap engi’s were an abomination that needed to be killed. I am glad A-net did the right thing and destroyed them for the benefit of the rest of us.

Yes turret engi is OP and very much so I totally agree. But fixing the builds and Anet being completely lazy by making the builds unplayable anymore are two different things. They could have lessened the damage of turrets, or made it scale to the engi’s stats so they couldn’t simply go bunker are just 2 right ways to fix them. If they did want to do this nerf, then they had to at least lower the cooldowns on some of the turrets too.

Turrets never did very much damage, what made it abomination was all the knockbacks and the subsequent survivability for the engi that accompanied the turrets. What this meant was that a turret engi was near impossible to solo if played right (focused on being tanky not doing damage) but could still take and keep a point without killing the enemies that were at that point. Hence the name: “Decap engi.”

Yeah, it is really crazy how you could pull all of that survivability out of a bunker build right?

Trust me, you say “near impossible to solo” and I say “I could train a monkey to solo them”………..Most of those playing them were not particularly good at it. Most of those playing against them , were worse, in my opinion. What baffle is me is that posters complain that they have difficulty against stationary objects that they declared do no damage.

Does anyone else see the irony of a thief main player coming to the engineer subforums to bash the community and try to inflame the community?

Lol what? Thief main? I have never claimed to be someone who mains a thief. The few times I even posted in the thief sub-forums I made sure to mention that I don’t main a thief. I have been far more active in the engineer forums than any other, because the closest thing to a main I have is my engineer. I have way more hours on my engineer than any other class because it is and always will be my favorite class.

Yes, I know it is a difficult concept to grasp that an engineer player could hate turret builds, especially given the number of players who lept on the turret engineer easy-mode bandwagon. But I assure you, there are a lot more of us than you think.

Sidizen if you quit pvp becuase of turret engineers I dare say you weren’t a very good pvper then.

DOZENS of people have showed how easy it is to kill turret engineers in recorded videos of actual gameplay. Using incredibly simple tactics that even a 5 year old could do. (one of the videos was actually of a 5 year old doing it -.-)

Even more have explained at the most basic level how HORRIBLE a build turret engis were.

If you had trouble with turret engineers. It wasn’t because that build was strong. It was because you were willfully ignorant.

Sidizen.9048:

I laugh at anyone who tries to defend Turret Engineer and think that this balance patch was an unneeded change. I quit PvP because of Turrets. They were awful and made the PvP so boring and annoying.

+++++++1MILLION over & over.

Engies was a pain.
step 1- crash crate
step 2- step out & go afk to make a sandwitch.
3- engineer win.