Sup guys,
An idea for a little psychological experiment hit me and I’m hoping that some of you guys could help out!
What I’m looking to find is what its like fighting against a Mesmer (Shatter, Lockdown, and/or Condi) as an Engineer? I have a few questions going forward:
Along with anything else you’d like to add. My plan is to make a thread in the Mes forums detailing and explaining how fighting us feels for other classes, and hopefully learn some things along the way (especially since I know like nothing about Engineers). Thanks in advance for any assistance!
In my experience (4/4/6 Lockdown Mesmer) Engineers are.. difficult. I always run focus, so my spinning Phantasmal Warden does wonders eating/blocking turret and rifle shots and yet I have a really hard time fighting them nonetheless. A good engineer can sustain themselves just long enough so that their condis take me down before I take them down. Fighting turrets is a pain as I tend to have to dance around a lot and can’t get as close as I’d like. It doesn’t help that I have no idea what’s going on on the Engi’s side, so it makes it much harder to predict them. In this fight, if I don’t land two or three interrupts within about 15 seconds of eachother, the engi will never die.
a few things in my experience:
when running bruiser (cele in pvp), i typically eat shatter alive unless they decide to target me in a teamfight before i can scare the kitten out of them. i cannot fight phants, i have to run, i dont think ive ever won a duel against a phant mesmer as a bruiser. same for condi shatter, but i havent exactly had much experience actually fighting it so i know im not playing it right… 10 torment stacks is just plain ridiculous when i already cleared 6-8 and the 4-8 bleeds too. pu condi is terribad and lasts a long time but cant kill, so that ones a bit of a stalemate.. you dont see many of those in pvp, more a wvw thing.
i dont play condi engi all that much, but i was able to win agianst a phant mesmer using tk/nades p/p rabid, it surprised me but those mesmers arent set up to clear condis. i dont remember getting any good fights against a shatter mesmer. or condi shatter. or pu condi.
as for turret engi, mesmers will have a hard time dislodging him from a point and will prolly lose any on point fight, dont fight it. the same is true of most classes. catch him elsewhere, or win a fight for your team elsewhere and come back when you have a clear advantage.
i dont play static discharge bursty builds cuz i hate sd so idk how they fare.
the first thing i think when i see a mesmer is… shatter ? PLS SHATTER PLS@@@
Engineer can handle mesmers relatively well due to massive aoe and massive condition.
Also they are all range and aoe, so it makes meesmer’s life alot tougher.
Also, engineer has easy access to range poison, which can cause alot of trouble to mesmer’s survivability due to mesmer’s lack of cleanse.
Mesmers, honestly?
Pretty easy pickings, Phant or otherwise.
- Make them sit still and they’re dead. Unless they’re running around like a Mythbuster chasing C4, they’re dusted and gone in the wind inside of three solid hits.
- As long as you time your condition cleanses right, they won’t be able to get on top of you.
- They can’t heal themselves worth a puppy. Not only are their heals silly and ineffectual, but they all have a gosh darn cast time that basically telegraphs exactly when they’re in trouble. Good time to interrupt with a crowbar, Overcharge Shot, or assorted gadget. Poor sods.
- Just don’t get confused which one is the real one; it’s always going to be the moron that runs away from you as though he’s got a jump cable attached to his bullocks. Any daft Mesmer that tries to take on an Engineer in close-range deserves a Darwin award. It’s usually only a newbie mistake to not notice the purple butterfly trails around the mirages anyway.
- If the Phantasms start giving you trouble, don’t fret. It’ll only take two untraited grenade throws to deal with them.
- If I’m in an event with them on my side? I hate them. I HATE THEM. Their bloody Phantasms suck up all of my friendly AoE’s that could be benefiting PEOPLE that ACTUALLY need them. 5 possible targets – three of them are wasted on the stupid Mesmer’s Phants, one going to myself, then the lone spare going to whoever’s got the best luck in the cluster.
It’s infuriating when I’m trying to run a HGH/support build so I can beef up other people and keep their conditions off.
Argh, mesmers. First, I’m not all that good. Second, I run bomb condi so my range attack is very limited. Third, I still have issues figuring which is which (I’m trying to line up time with a mesmer friend to duel with so I can practice, heh). Last time I dueled one on point, I finally managed to call target on the right one, when a teammate on the other side of the map called target on someone else, and that was that. The smart mesmer will stay ranged, forcing me to eventually LOS if I can’t ID the real one and pull him toward me or chase him down. If I can get the mesmer in melee range, then I can deal with him/her. But the ones I’ve fought lately are too smart for that.
Thanks so much for the support guys, reading these are a big help!
Just wanted to chime in on something @Kusumura pets and NPCs aren’t prioritized for friendly boons/heals. It will always go to nearby players first.
Thanks so much for the support guys, reading these are a big help!
Just wanted to chime in on something @Kusumura pets and NPCs aren’t prioritized for friendly boons/heals. It will always go to nearby players first.
Yes, this was fixed quite a while ago.
It also help find the Mesmer since it is most likely the one with the most buffs.
As a person who plays both classes, I find that a good Lockdown mesmer can beat an engie 80% of the time. It’s all about the right interrupts.
As a Burst Engie, I know this when coming up to fighting a mesmer with Mantra of Distraction because I know how the build works. My tactic is to put my worst foot forward first so they spam their interrupts on that and then try to hit them hard during MoD’s cooldown.
Sword/Sword is too obvious when it comes to interrupt speed. Sword/Pistol has a better chance of winning. That being said, the Offhand Sword Phant can really be a jerk, but then again, the Offhand Pistol Phanta has the advantage of not needing to in close to do a lot of damage. Which means it avoids grenades and bombs unless I purposefully target it, which smart engies will always do.
If the mesmer is using GS, the first thing I want to do is get out of Line of Sight so he has to come closer. If he doesn’t I’ll just stealth up and charge head on towards him/her. Hit them with a prybar which puts the mesmer in panic mode and they spam skills leading to damage ticks from confusion brought on by the prybar. If the mesmer doesn’t pop his invul in that second, I follow that up with an Overcharged Shot at which point the mesmer will either Blink or Decoy their way out of that to get better positioning on me.
After that it’s a matter of making sure I dodge into his/her clones during shatters and put on a brave face, not being afraid to risk taking damage when dealing with the mesmer. That posture usually leaves the mesmer feeling like their pressure isn’t enough and that they are the ones getting pressured. Then they’d try to get away from you, which also serves you because you didn’t want the mesmer close to you anyway.
As a mesmer the best way to handle all this is to wait for the moments when the Engie thinks it’s safe to get close and just make them regret trying it. Dodge through them and shatter (dodging through ranged characters really messes with the effectiveness of the ranged weapon, sometimes putting things on cooldown way before they’ve activated or finished activating). When you do the “dodge-through”, make sure it’s a daze shatter then follow it up with a burst shatter, some engies will decide this is the best time to pop that stun break, be ready with that interrupt because immediately they come out they are going to heal and you don’t want that. If they do manage to heal, don’t worry about it though, put some phants on them and interrupt the big skills and you’ll be fine, they are on the retreat now.
FOR CONDI MESMERS
Playing a condi mesmer myself. I found my chances of winning to be 50/50. Landing a burst of condis on the engie on the outset can put you on the lead against them. I find the slow “let my clones do the damage” thing doesn’t work against good engies. They’ll just out-sustain it and cleanse the big condis as soon as they land.
The best course of action is to burst them with condis and THEN use your close to try to cover them. This means, confusion shatter, then use staff to spawn more clones and make sure you land chaos storm.
As an Engie, I know all mesmers want to play the slow methodical game of PeeUuuu! So I just throw all I can at them and when I hit their Scepter 2, I dodge to avoid the torment or I immediately cleanse if I can’t dodge. It’s even worse if I use Elixir gun. The cleanse speed is real because the speed of application is slow.
(edited by Dirame.8521)
Thanks so much for the support guys, reading these are a big help!
Just wanted to chime in on something @Kusumura pets and NPCs aren’t prioritized for friendly boons/heals. It will always go to nearby players first.
Oh? Fair enough! Happy to admit that maybe it’s my olden style thinking that’s at fault since I just got back into the game from about a year and a half ago.
I can only speak from a WvW perspective since I rarely meet decent mesmers in PvP.
Anyways, since I run s/d zerker:
>What is the first thing that comes to mind when you’re about to face a Mesmer?
“Free kill ahead”
>How do you feel about your odds of winning?
Free stomps. their clones / phantasms pop to s/d voleys and actually ensure that I always get multiple hits per bolt on them. and since they are revealed, I can focus on bursting him down. The real question is if he tries to escape or accepts his fate.
>Strategies and tactics?
none, just the usual rota s/d brings along.
> Which type of Engi build do you feel best fights Mesmer?
s/d zerker. The build is rather situational and pretty squishy, but dealing with mesmers on it is quite easy.
>What Engi skills (weapon or utility) are most important to have in this fight?
Analyze + static discharge. as long as he’s revealed, it does not matter how often he switches position with a clone, tries to stealth or blink around. and the s/d bolts ensure that his phantasms don’t live long enough to apply pressure, and/or clones can’t be used to be shattered effectively.
>How do you feel about Mesmer in general?
A pest if you need to clear them off of a tower or keep. Apart from that they oppose no threat.
Disclaimer: I don’t hate mesmers. they are useful for a zerg and quite competent roamers. It just happens that I’m running a hardcounter for that class in particular, but I can clearly see how effective they perform if they don’t have to deal with bouncing / homing projectiles & reveal. their lack of stability makes a fight with engis in general not easier as well.
Sup guys,
An idea for a little psychological experiment hit me and I’m hoping that some of you guys could help out!
What I’m looking to find is what its like fighting against a Mesmer (Shatter, Lockdown, and/or Condi) as an Engineer? I have a few questions going forward:
- Which type of Engi build do you feel best fights Mesmer?
- What Engi skills (weapon or utility) are most important to have in this fight?
- How do you feel about Mesmer in general?
Noticed I didn’t answer all the questions so I’m going to do that now.
Which type of Engi build do you feel best fights Mesmer?
Condi builds for the most part but Burst builds can to.
What Engi Skills are most important?
If it’s Pistol/Shield then it’s Static Shield. If it’s Rifle then it Overcharged Shot and the immob. Elixir S, Tool kit, Rocket Turret, Flame Turret, Slick Shoes, Grenades and to a certain extent Rocket boots.
How do you feel about the Mesmer in general?
The good ones are fun to fight. They can beat Engies but you just have to know how to do it.
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