Guild Wars 2

it was the only utility that made engi worth using in a team

like what the hell

you can try with throw mine now

Pretty sure engineers are useful without slick shoes.

nehkz.2304:

Pretty sure engineers are useful without slick shoes.

I guess he meant it was the only skill, which gave us a sure place in raids (Gorseval).
This skill allowed the engineer to break the break bar all by himself. Now this is no longer an option so there is no need to take a engineer with you anymore.

Kodama.6453:

nehkz.2304:

Pretty sure engineers are useful without slick shoes.

I guess he meant it was the only skill, which gave us a sure place in raids (Gorseval).
This skill allowed the engineer to break the break bar all by himself. Now this is no longer an option so there is no need to take a engineer with you anymore.

As I wrote in the other thread I think engis will still have a place in raids because they give so much burn damage for epidemic and have good CC. They got a decent damage buff on blowtorch and static shot as well. Slick shoes did way more to the break bars than any one skill should be able to do. And hey engi is still a beast in the VG fight.

But yeah it would have been nice if slick shoes has some other aspect buffed as well (bigger cd reduction, apply some status like cripple or poison, extra effect on the toolbelt skill) instead of just completely destroying it as was done with the patch. “Why delete slick shoes” is a pretty apt thread title because that’s basically the equivalent of what happened to it.

Thqnks for this, engi is not viable in raids. Now with dps test golem I am sure that condi engi not offer good dps(even in 95%perfect rotation), no proffesion utility like empower allies, no boon share… so thanks anet. This one skill was ticket to gorseval and probably sloth, bot now, ehy I should take engi into my raids?? – complex rotation-not biggest dps, i will choose temp/guard/thief for this role

Bomb kit can do 18k dps with all possible buffs, boons and conditions.

Kodama.6453:

nehkz.2304:

Pretty sure engineers are useful without slick shoes.

I guess he meant it was the only skill, which gave us a sure place in raids (Gorseval).
This skill allowed the engineer to break the break bar all by himself. Now this is no longer an option so there is no need to take a engineer with you anymore.

He’s a PvPer so he’s probably talking about PvP. Hey Argi o/

Slick shoes is still pretty good, it’s just, now we have to ACTUALLY TRY when we want to chain CC someone.

guildabd.6529:

Bomb kit can do 18k dps with all possible buffs, boons and conditions.

I’ve had 23k, don’t forget food ;3

Wahoo!

It’s not as bad as you make it up to be. Slick shoes were broken, just like burnzerker was and if you don’t accept that I don’t think you can make any good balance choices in the first place. It was an exploity skill for sure – I mean how on earth would a 64s stun strong cc be balanced? Tell me …

Engi is far from being bad in raids. They are also probably the strongest fotm profession there is and same goes for dungeons.

In Raids you still want them for VG in any situation.
You still want them for Grose to solo 2 adds and have blind for no updraft while the damage still is on the top 3 of all professions.
You still can use them for Sabby due to blind, cc and simple dps. You could replace them with a tempest there, but the damage difference is small and the safety of not getting kicked into a flame wall is by far better than that. Also: Protection.
At Sloth either condi for a necro comp or simply because of the amazing condi cleanse, cc, blind in general.
Trio it’s the same again, best profession on mokittenuty, best aoe blind, range aggro pull etc etc.

In Dungeons you want to skip stuff, you want blind, you want aoe and high dps. Either Engi or Thief, both work pretty similiar here.

In high FotM you want condi profession and flexible professions. Engi is definitly the best profession here. You have everything you might need in every single fractal. You can also go condi wich gives you higher dps than an Ele (except maybe large hitboxes).
Little hint: Raid bosses have 2600 armor, fotm 50+ mobs/bosses have around 3600, some more if they are higher than 80. So it’s like they have perma protection. Deal with it

Engi doesn’t have the best dps, that’s the Ele true, but we have everything else and we have the same DpS as a thief – Engi is always a solid pick.

- Greez!

Seriously why didn’t they just cap this out at 10 like they did will Wall of terror and Line of warding.

pls keep pve related stuff out of here this is only pvp related

Argilla.8340:

pls keep pve related stuff out of here this is only pvp related

Ok PVP related. I got way more use out of Blast Gyro/Final Salvo than i did with slick shoes especially when solo Queuing. Incredibily low CD with good damage and AOE knockback. So for pvp i dont miss slick shoes. I understand for a coordinated team that lockdown with slickshoes is very good if everyone focuses the target but for 1v1 (or uncoordinated teams) i liked blast gyro much better.

Argilla.8340:

pls keep pve related stuff out of here this is only pvp related

I wish i could, really. Except…i can’t. Because those mindlessly stupid nerfs keep affecting everything else.
If anything, the issue is that the whole nerf isn’t just pvp related, as it should be.
Despite being all things pvp people constantly whined about. Essentially, devs they did what they usually do: appeasing the whining pvp crowd. And screw up anything else in the process.
Since any other mode is stuck with the useless version of slick shoes as well, tell me, what’s the point of that skill now in a raid? A single 2s knockdown on Gorseval or Slothasor with a relatively long cooldown? Oh, please.
How many people complained for the healing turret in PvE? No one, i guess. Was the survivability of scrapper a problem in PvE? No, cause people didn’t even care about using a scrapper to begin with (and even less so, now). And i could say the same for any other nerf. Oh, but we got buffs, sure. Some cooldown reduction on gadgets and elixirs…that won’t do anything. No one cares about gadgets and elixirs in PvE. No one cares because they are useless, and they’re useless because either kits can do the same things, or because they aren’t good enough to use them instead of a kit. Spending slots for a couple boons? Other classes can do that for us (whereas we can’t do the same – decrease the cooldowns all you want, tossed elixirs are still terrible). Gadgets are single skills in a class balanced over using kits, and they lose by default. The only one that had a niche use was slick shoes, and it ended in the bin. The hammer autoattack “buff”? A joke, there is no reason to use that autoattack to begin with – you would just switch to bombs for their superior damage – and might and vulnerability are likely already provided by other classes, anyway, classes that have got good group support aside from dps, unlike us. The only thing that can be tangentially useful is the pistol reductions, and even then, it will just make rotations more complex. Whereas other classes can just achieve the same results in far simpler ways, and maybe even giving some group support on the side.
I said times and times that they should have reduced the self-sustain and give some group support in return, but no, that was not what the whining crowd wanted. Let’s just screw up the other modes. That’s all balance entails in this game.

TL;DR: an engineer fed up with balance changes centered upon PvP, but that are still applied to the whole game despite being no reason to do so.

^Condi engi wants to use grenades bombs and flamethrower anyway for optimal damage. Now and with the added pistol buffs and shoes nerf there is really no reason not to use that loadout.

Also if you wanted an easy roatation chances are you wouldn’t be playing condi engi in the first place.

I do wish that the had gone lighter on the nerfs or reduced the cooldown because as it stands it doesnt justify a 40 sec cd.

pvp only?

well…

just use blast gyro… when they fix it.

If you really think engi only offers Slick Shoes for raids, maybe you need to rethink your DPS rotations. Our damage is no longer top tier but it’s still objectively good and worth bringing.

Slick Shoes was way too powerful a CC skill that it could shred break bars on its own. If you think they did this just for PvP you’re delusional. No one class should be able to handle all CC duties.

CC duty was the only role the engineer had left. Other classes are better at dps, other classes are better at group support (well, not that it would be difficult).
As you said, our damage isn’t even top tier. And it requires insane rotations to actually deal it, rotations that won’t be realistically done properly in a raid setting.
Why should someone even bother having an engineer in group, if there are far better choices around?

Engi is back to the old state – if you have a really good player, take him, if not, better replace him with a guard / ele.

Still – there are plenty of reasons why to pick a engi over a Xth ele. You have utility. That’s why you barely see thieves – they have less damage than eles but nothing to offer. Guard has perma protection and Engi with the same dps has cc, blind, heal, protection, pull, or condis where other professions can benefit from.

GW2 needs more skills like slick shoes not less. Not many skills require you to move you whole character to land a skill and has multiple different tecniques to use for different situations.

There is huge difference in slick shoe in great hands and average hands. Can’t say as much about many other CC skills.

Wahoo.

It deserved the nerf but I agree that it has been overnerfed.

It would’ve been nice if they’d let have slick shoes hit a target 5-10 times still. It shouldn’t be broken again and perform a 64s stun, but to dedicate a whole utilitiy slot ONLY for cc reall justifies one for 10s+, especially if there are still attacks like the mesmer shield #5 or even worse: rev staff #5 …

TL;DR: let slick shoes hit a target 5+ times to bring it back to live.

Greez!
- Ziggy

With this logic, Basi Venom should work for 2 secs each charge and increase charges to 5, since it’s a whole Elite Slot…..

Hey Xyo, a couple of times now I’ve seen you mention that scrapper is a strong, if not the best, FotM class. What build(s) are you running for your fractals? Just curious =)

Blast gyro. Welcome back to your engi alt

Been enjoying the kitten out of blast gyro in pvp admittedly.

I heard that slick shoes works like the pre-nerf when overcharged with gadgeteer trait. Not sure if this is intended, but if so, it’s probably still viable for fights like Gorseval. Haven’t tested myself though.

basz.6129:

Blast gyro. Welcome back to your engi alt

been using blast gyro (with final salvo) for a month now ever since BASZ.6129 mentioned it a while back. I liked it better than slick shoes back then. I like it even more now.

Wahoo!

BlaqueFyre.5678:

With this logic, Basi Venom should work for 2 secs each charge and increase charges to 5, since it’s a whole Elite Slot…..

It already works for 150 breakbar damage instead of only 100. It can also be traited to become a whole 1500 breakbar damage (condi thief). But I agree that 5+ is too much for Slick Shoes again. 2-3 times wold already be enough.

Sazdek.6830:

Hey Xyo, a couple of times now I’ve seen you mention that scrapper is a strong, if not the best, FotM class. What build(s) are you running for your fractals? Just curious =)

I simply use the normal power or condi engi builds, but I swap utilities very often, basicly for each encounter, to be able to counterplay in the best possible ways.
Against much trash, I’d go power, if you have a long fight before you, condi.

You can pm me (here or ingame) if you want more tips or infos !

Blast Gyro deals 332 defiancebar damage, so basicly a 3.32s stun. The same thing can be achieved by using the Personal Battering Ram, wich additionaly is a dps increase (the toolbelt is, the actual skill isn’t but neither is Blast Gyro). The toolbelt deals 100 damage, the ram itself 232.

I’d take the ram, unless you want the quickness / lightning field or the range of Blasty ofc! If you can make use of those things like for Matthias the speed and stability, for the Trio the range for the Saboteur, rather take Blasty.

What you also can do, is pick the Rocket Turret (YES I SAID IT!). It’s a turret so naturally it will explode and cause 150 knockback defiancebar damage. The active skill overcharge launches a rocket that does a 3s knockdown, wich is another 300 defiancebar damage. So it’s our best “defiance bar damage per slot” skill, with 450 damage (4.5s stun).
It’s toolbelt is also a huge damage spike, just make sure to not use it on long range due to the strange arc it flies.

Greez!
- Ziggy

Xyonon.3987:

Wahoo!

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BlaqueFyre.5678:

With this logic, Basi Venom should work for 2 secs each charge and increase charges to 5, since it’s a whole Elite Slot…..

It already works for 150 breakbar damage instead of only 100. It can also be traited to become a whole 1500 breakbar damage (condi thief). But I agree that 5+ is too much for Slick Shoes again. 2-3 times wold already be enough.

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Sazdek.6830:

Hey Xyo, a couple of times now I’ve seen you mention that scrapper is a strong, if not the best, FotM class. What build(s) are you running for your fractals? Just curious =)

I simply use the normal power or condi engi builds, but I swap utilities very often, basicly for each encounter, to be able to counterplay in the best possible ways.
Against much trash, I’d go power, if you have a long fight before you, condi.

You can pm me (here or ingame) if you want more tips or infos !

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Blast Gyro deals 332 defiancebar damage, so basicly a 3.32s stun. The same thing can be achieved by using the Personal Battering Ram, wich additionaly is a dps increase (the toolbelt is, the actual skill isn’t but neither is Blast Gyro). The toolbelt deals 100 damage, the ram itself 232.

I’d take the ram, unless you want the quickness / lightning field or the range of Blasty ofc! If you can make use of those things like for Matthias the speed and stability, for the Trio the range for the Saboteur, rather take Blasty.

What you also can do, is pick the Rocket Turret (YES I SAID IT!). It’s a turret so naturally it will explode and cause 150 knockback defiancebar damage. The active skill overcharge launches a rocket that does a 3s knockdown, wich is another 300 defiancebar damage. So it’s our best “defiance bar damage per slot” skill, with 450 damage (4.5s stun).
It’s toolbelt is also a huge damage spike, just make sure to not use it on long range due to the strange arc it flies.

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Greez!
- Ziggy

I was mainly referring to the pvp aspect of it and then there is the fact slick shoes can hit multiple targets i.e. More than two, is insta cast, and has a longer cc duration for only 5 seconds more of a CD. Also applies blindness

When Basi venom has. 1 sec cast time, can only be used on two targets max, lasts 1 sec per, Sigil damage will Proc second charge if procc’ed, has 40 second CD and fills an elite slot.
Now if traited Basi venom still hits less targets,

Xyonon.3987:

Wahoo!

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Sazdek.6830:

Hey Xyo, a couple of times now I’ve seen you mention that scrapper is a strong, if not the best, FotM class. What build(s) are you running for your fractals? Just curious =)

I simply use the normal power or condi engi builds, but I swap utilities very often, basicly for each encounter, to be able to counterplay in the best possible ways.
Against much trash, I’d go power, if you have a long fight before you, condi.

You can pm me (here or ingame) if you want more tips or infos !

Greez!
- Ziggy

I actually sent you an in-game mail some time ago (does mail work between EU and NA? shrug) in any case I was curious which I should bother gearing up first, the power or condi spec, though I suppose power is likely the most universally useful spec for most everything. (eventually getting a condi set regardless because…HOPE….much want)

In any case, with the power build, which utilities/kits are essential? Guessing probably grenade and bomb kit (maybe?) with the third slot being elixir gun or random utility based on encounter. Do you have links to said builds? =3 sorry if it’s a bother, always curious to see the more experienced players trait choices when it’s a class that I’m relatively newer with.

@Sazdek OMG OMG OMG OMG I’ve just seen it! 4 days ago – I’m so sorry!!!

Yes it works to pm or mail between NA and EU, so just pm me ingame if there is anything you need This time I’ll answer ya xD

This is the current max dps raid build / spreadsheet:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/All-Skills-Damage-for-Power-and-Condi-3/first#post5996853

It also has 2 very informative images wich show you the skill priority you should follow. If you got questions about that, just go ahead and ask!

I’d also agree on gearing power first. It’s better on open world and more versatile in general. But you should get a condi equip too asap, since condi engis are most wanted for VG in raids or for long boss encounters in higher fractals (high toughness).

I suggest you aim for exotic zerker armor, ascended zerker weapon(s) and trinkets first. Then go for a full exotic viper gear. Your weapons don’t have to be ascended since only 20% of your damage is power damage and the 5% damage modifier you get from exo to ascended just has a 1/5 effectiveness then → +1.25% damage wich is barely anything. Then I suggest you build yourself HOPE, trust me it’s amazing!

In the case of the power scrapper / engi it depends on where you’re playing. Solo you should go for a classy might stacking juggernaut flamethrower engi with scrapper, firearms and then either alchemy for max damage or inventions for max sustain. I prefer alchemy nowdays. As utilities it depends then on the encounter, most of the time I run with elixier U and elixier gun, but skills like toolkit, bulwark gyro, blast gyro, purge gyro, and the ram are good picks aswell. Pick what you need.

For dungeons, fotm and raids almost always go for grenades and bombs and normally elixier gun, but the EG you can switch out to adapt to the encounter for skills like bulwark or elixier U at the harpy fractal, the mine for it’s toolbelt boonstrip for the ascalon (might stackers) or dredge fractals, etc etc etc. Experiment with your utilites on your own, rather than just stick to the same things all the time. For example, I recently tried to use turrets and I find the rocket turret to be an amazing break bar wrecker with a 3s knockdown (tooltip says 2s i know) and a knockback on detonation. Also got a nice toolbelt skill (dat dmg!!).

Lil’ bit of wall’o’text, sry for that!

If you got any further questions ask them here or ingame greez!

- Ziggy