Guild Wars 2

I am sorry this Honor trait change nerfed many of your builds (honestly, I don’t feel it was OP, because the heals and “perma dodge” are not that unstoppable, just useful.) However, on the positive side, it will push many number crunchers to try things they didn’t try before. I used to use Blind Exposure a lot with Sword AND Mace (using 15 Radiance when not using signets) because even that one stack of invulnerability added up. This change made my current 25/15/0/30/0 Symbol build with Mace/Focus paired with Staff even more powerful all around, either solo or in a group. Still, I understand the disappointment, and although I didn’t use AH all the time, it does make it less attractive save for bigger fights-I still think it’s useful with staff (Empower), and if you continually give boons to people and yourself. AH Hammer build will still work with the Protection boon given by the Hammer, it’s just that solo self-healing in this manner did take a noticeable hit.

I don’t think builds were ruined, just more challening to play in certain conditions, so no need to throw away your gear/weapons due to this change-especially since the game is always evolving.

Star Ace.5207:

I am sorry this Honor trait change nerfed many of your builds (honestly, I don’t feel it was OP, because the heals and “perma dodge” are not that unstoppable, just useful.) However, on the positive side, it will push many number crunchers to try things they didn’t try before. I used to use Blind Exposure a lot with Sword AND Mace (using 15 Radiance when not using signets) because even that one stack of invulnerability added up. This change made my current 25/15/0/30/0 Symbol build with Mace/Focus paired with Staff even more powerful all around, either solo or in a group. Still, I understand the disappointment, and although I didn’t use AH all the time, it does make it less attractive save for bigger fights-I still think it’s useful with staff (Empower), and if you continually give boons to people and yourself. AH Hammer build will still work with the Protection boon given by the Hammer, it’s just that solo self-healing in this manner did take a noticeable hit.

I don’t think builds were ruined, just more challening to play in certain conditions, so no need to throw away your gear/weapons due to this change-especially since the game is always evolving.

I agree, you just need to tweak your build a little and try new things. I’m sticking with AH, but will mess with sword and focus a bit.

Awww i would have loved seeing a buff to signet of mercy. Oh well

Shuguard.7125:

Awww i would have loved seeing a buff to signet of mercy. Oh well

Who knows, they may change it in the future. They need to fix a lot of stuff on all professions. I would love for it/ to resurrect truly defeated players (not just downed), and at least a minute less for its cooldown. I have used it in the past, but I agree it’s hard to justify it’s slot (my gear has enough heals for its passive effect to mean that much)-I don’t think buffing it a little will in anyway make it OP, but rather, more attractive, as I am sure not too many are using it at the moment.

I don’t think Vig was supposed to work like that from the beginning. Pretty much why It got the wrecking ball. I’m going to have to rethink somethings now as well.

Honestly, if they are going to pigeonhole us into boons, at least make spirit weapons give us boons. The Vigorous Precison nerf puts a lot more pressure into our utility slots forcing us to use shouts. We had no viable alternative to “Stand Your Ground!” since forever and now the other 2 slots must be shouts too, what’s with that?

You guys should be happy with this. The Vigorous Precision nerf means that now GS loses the defense advantage it had over hammer and mace, so now there’s actually a valid reason to use those weapons.

I may have to start using hammer in some of the harder dungeons now that attack speed means less than independent boon procs.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

You guys should be happy with this. The Vigorous Precision nerf means that now GS loses the defense advantage it had over hammer and mace, so now there’s actually a valid reason to use those weapons.

I may have to start using hammer in some of the harder dungeons now that attack speed means less than independent boon procs.

Yea, and as I said before, if you’re stil spec’d for AH, the #2 Hammer skill can give out a decent amount of aoe boons in a combo field, keeping up the heals a bit, especially fire combo.

I can see where you’re coming from but also those who had a heavy hand in utilizing this trait as a way of keeping themselves alive. I see this as both a buff and nerf, less critical chance builds are now more viable while those who rely on it for a little more healing got hit hard.

Empowered Might, Selfless Daring just saying ..

Dodge – heal, crit – heal

Bakitten291:

I already HAD perm vigor. my whole basis of my build was the self healing from that trait. at 75% crit with a 1h sword over 5 seconds i would crit 7-8 times with just auto attack, thats about 490 healing done. Now it is just 70 healing. It is honestly a huge nerf for me.

This kind of capability is probably part of the reason that it got changed … permanent 490 Heal per second? I like guardian and I don’t like nerfs but that’s pretty OPed in a game where healing is rather limited.

Obtena.7952:

Bakitten291:

I already HAD perm vigor. my whole basis of my build was the self healing from that trait. at 75% crit with a 1h sword over 5 seconds i would crit 7-8 times with just auto attack, thats about 490 healing done. Now it is just 70 healing. It is honestly a huge nerf for me.

This kind of capability is probably part of the reason that it got changed … permanent 490 Heal per second? I like guardian and I don’t like nerfs but that’s pretty OPed in a game where healing is rather limited.

490 healing every 5 seconds are: 5880 heals in a minute.
i think the monk focus build can heal better than this.

but anyway, go from 5k+ heals to 840… is a massive nerf! use a midway balance is asking too much?

Obtena.7952:

Bakitten291:

I already HAD perm vigor. my whole basis of my build was the self healing from that trait. at 75% crit with a 1h sword over 5 seconds i would crit 7-8 times with just auto attack, thats about 490 healing done. Now it is just 70 healing. It is honestly a huge nerf for me.

This kind of capability is probably part of the reason that it got changed … permanent 490 Heal per second? I like guardian and I don’t like nerfs but that’s pretty OPed in a game where healing is rather limited.

Thats over 5 seconds not per second.

490 healing every 5 seconds are: 5880 heals in a minute.
i think the monk focus build can heal better than this.

It ends up being around the same amount of healing due to other factors like multiple targets and multi-hit attacks, such as zealot’s and WW, The difference is that it was constant healing compared to meditation burst healing, and also over healing was not wasted compared to meditation healing because of the fact that its always on.

Funny enough, in a game with very few character building options to keep people playing long term, each patch seems to remove several specs.

So purity of voice not fixed, AH build full crit completely destroyed, that s must be a joke right ?

^it’s not completely destroyed lol

Balthalzar.6243:

^it’s not completely destroyed lol

But a lot of weapons now are simply unusable with the AH builds…
The only weapon with some use with it now is the hammer(and its not so effective), but a Sword Ah build is pretty stupid to use, even if you use the sigil that give might on crit.

The simple fact is that AH builds were stupidly overpowered. And I play one.

I could stand there (in power/precision/tougness armor, with all power/precision/crit damage gems on it, and all power/precision/crit damage trinkets) and simply facetank the majority of situations. If I happened to be in a group that was melee heavy, it was basically God-mode. No class should be able to stand there dealing out great damage, constant party buffs, and be nigh-unkillable. Something had to give.

Having tried out the changes, I’ve found it’s not all that bad. You have to make sure your dodges are well used, but other than that, I haven’t found many issues with my survivability.

Valmarius.4150:

The simple fact is that AH builds were stupidly overpowered. And I play one.

I could stand there (in power/precision/tougness armor, with all power/precision/crit damage gems on it, and all power/precision/crit damage trinkets) and simply facetank the majority of situations. If I happened to be in a group that was melee heavy, it was basically God-mode. No class should be able to stand there dealing out great damage, constant party buffs, and be nigh-unkillable. Something had to give.

Having tried out the changes, I’ve found it’s not all that bad. You have to make sure your dodges are well used, but other than that, I haven’t found many issues with my survivability.

/agree

I have just figured out that instead of facerolling (Which come on guys – we all knew that it happened and we all knew how stupidly over-powered it was with the massive amounts of healing) you actually have to play to what the game was designed to do – dodge and be active!

So they made the dodging better, and took away the face rolling.

I see no problem – still running hammer Greatsword for the hell of it.

Balthalzar.6243:

^it’s not completely destroyed lol

yes it is. I have 53% crit with 14k hp and 3200 armor. I can’t survive now. I understand something needs to be fixed, but there is a difference between destroying selfhealing by vigorous precision and lower it.

I think the max boons vigor you could get was 4 per second (you need to hit 4 ennemis at least at the same time). Now self healing from VP is about only 5% from what it has been. WOw, just wow. I don’t remember being so broken at this point.
We have the worst mobility in the game and hp pool in the game. With VP, i could survive a bit as a vanguard and i liked it. Now i just can’t survive. Just use my scepter and run like a sissi if something went wrong because i am so useless.

i simple solution to the problem for me.

instead of 5 seconds of vigor with 5 seconds CD from vigor that is equal to 70 hp every 5 seconds from AH.

5 tick(1sec) of vigor with 5 seconds CD, that is equal to 350 hp every 5 seconds if you run a crit build.
or 4 tick(1 sec) of vigor, with 5 second CD if we want some kind of nerf.

the real problem with VP and AH is when you crit on multitarget, but with my solution, you can have only a tick regardless of the number of targets.

Empowering Might + omnomberry pie + Superior Sigil of Blood, is still very good survivability. If you haven’t tried it yet, it’s highly suggested. I’m just thinking that they basically made Empowering Might a requirement for maximizing an AH build now.

On a completely unrelated side note…why on Earth haven’t I levelled a Thief, they got buffed this patch! LMAO!

Ganzo.5079:

i simple solution to the problem for me.

instead of 5 seconds of vigor with 5 seconds CD from vigor that is equal to 70 hp every 5 seconds from AH.

5 tick(1sec) of vigor with 5 seconds CD, that is equal to 350 hp every 5 seconds if you run a crit build.
or 4 tick(1 sec) of vigor, with 5 second CD if we want some kind of nerf.

That would be nice. Nerfing self healing from VP about 50%. Not a 95% nerf ! That s kitten !

Azzan.1650:

Balthalzar.6243:

^it’s not completely destroyed lol

yes it is. I have 53% crit with 14k hp and 3200 armor. I can’t survive now. I understand something needs to be fixed, but there is a difference between destroying selfhealing by vigorous precision and lower it.

I think the max boons vigor you could get was 4 per second (you need to hit 4 ennemis at least at the same time). Now self healing from VP is about only 5% from what it has been. WOw, just wow. I don’t remember being so broken at this point.
We have the worst mobility in the game and hp pool in the game. With VP, i could survive a bit as a vanguard and i liked it. Now i just can’t survive. Just use my scepter and run like a sissi if something went wrong because i am so useless.

3200 armor?

go grab a staff, run staff/gs or hammer/staff.

I’m having no problems in WvW or PvE…

Balthalzar.6243:

Azzan.1650:

Balthalzar.6243:

^it’s not completely destroyed lol

yes it is. I have 53% crit with 14k hp and 3200 armor. I can’t survive now. I understand something needs to be fixed, but there is a difference between destroying selfhealing by vigorous precision and lower it.

I think the max boons vigor you could get was 4 per second (you need to hit 4 ennemis at least at the same time). Now self healing from VP is about only 5% from what it has been. WOw, just wow. I don’t remember being so broken at this point.
We have the worst mobility in the game and hp pool in the game. With VP, i could survive a bit as a vanguard and i liked it. Now i just can’t survive. Just use my scepter and run like a sissi if something went wrong because i am so useless.

3200 armor?

go grab a staff, run staff/gs or hammer/staff.

I’m having no problems in WvW or PvE…

I don’t want to grab a staff… Why i have to ? I play sword/focus and GS, high crit rate . Why should I change my gameplay ?

Because game-play always changes as something gets buffed/nerfed

I hate being a boring support with a staff. I like to engage into a big fight, deal some aoe dmg in melee and come back to my group with a very low health….

You only use the staff for healing, and then you switch back to greatsword.

Azzan.1650:

I don’t want to grab a staff… Why i have to ? I play sword/focus and GS, high crit rate . Why should I change my gameplay ?

Someone will tell you that you have to adapt to changes.

What im thinking now, is that you can adapt when you have a lot of choices, but now we have only few options, so play with that or play an uneffective character ^^, or stop to play at all ^^

Balthalzar.6243:

You only use the staff for healing, and then you switch back to greatsword.

the fact is that now aplayer is forced to grab the staff if it run an AH build… so where is the build differentiation? If it love to run an AH sword\GS build why he cant run it?
im not attacking you, but you are avoiding the real problem ^^

Balthalzar.6243:

Because game-play always changes as something gets buffed/nerfed

Yeah but i hate this gameplay, it is boring to stand with the ranged class and watch the fight…

Gameplay doesn’t change ! It is only one gameplay destroyed, and forcing a player to play an other way.

There’s always monks focus atleast lol

Azzan.1650:

Balthalzar.6243:

Because game-play always changes as something gets buffed/nerfed

Yeah but i hate this gameplay, it is boring to stand with the ranged class and watch the fight…

Gameplay doesn’t change ! It is only one gameplay destroyed, and forcing a player to play an other way.

You don’t have to run a staff. Get Knights gear, mix in some Valkyrie for +crit damage and + vitality, pick up Empowering Might, get some Omnomberry Pie, drop a Superior Sigil of Blood in one or both of your weapons. You’ll be fine. You have to change up a bit, sure, but you do not HAVE to run a staff in order to run an AH build.

Balthalzar.6243:

You only use the staff for healing, and then you switch back to greatsword.

If you like it why not. But I prefer to use an other weapon to have an other gap closer and high solo damage than a staff to heal and boost myself.

Staff and hammer is very effective, maybe more than my gameplay (before nerf) but i loved the sword/gs. Now it is not about being more or less effective, it is just my gameplay means nothing now.

Where is the point to play AH if a thief with 96% steal life can heal himself like a gardian would do. Let s be honest, ommonberry + sigil heal a lot more than VP (before nerfed).

LOL! Reading this i feel like guardian was nerfed to ground. I was testing today my Hammer/AH 0/15/30/10/5 build in dungeons, and I dont feel diffrence. I still tank bosses, heal like crazy, and draw aggro nice, so whats the problem? Now I can make more dodges and dodges heal me. I have permanent Vigor now. And so many boons around I dont feel heal per sec drop. Now there is no even moment without Vigor

I undestand that if someone choose GS or Sword and was spamming crit autoattack, when each one was healing him, he will cry. But now you have to choose between DPS (Sword, Scepter, GS) and more tank/healing DPS (Hammer/Mace) and full Support/Heal (staff). I am glad becasue now Hammers are in better place since they heal more from Protection and Retalition, and Sword will be DPS weapon and no more free-heal each attack.

For me it wasnt nerf- it was balance change. Ur DPS or Tank/DPS? Now Choose. And try maybe something else with traits (I grabed Empowered Might today and testing it).

crewthief.8649:

You don’t have to run a staff. Get Knights gear, mix in some Valkyrie for +crit damage and + vitality, pick up Empowering Might, get some Omnomberry Pie, drop a Superior Sigil of Blood in one or both of your weapons. You’ll be fine. You have to change up a bit, sure, but you do not HAVE to run a staff in order to run an AH build.

You know that every class can use this?
Omnom berry pie and sigil of blood have nothing to do with AH build… you dont need AH to run this combo so its not a solution to the problem.

crewthief.8649:

Empowering Might + omnomberry pie + Superior Sigil of Blood, is still very good survivability. If you haven’t tried it yet, it’s highly suggested. I’m just thinking that they basically made Empowering Might a requirement for maximizing an AH build now.

On a completely unrelated side note…why on Earth haven’t I levelled a Thief, they got buffed this patch! LMAO!

if your having a hard time surviving with this minor change, Thief would absolutely not be the class for you.

Voltron.1043:

LOL! Reading this i feel like guardian was nerfed to ground. I was testing today my Hammer/AH 0/15/30/10/5 build in dungeons, and I dont feel diffrence. I still tank bosses, heal like crazy, and draw aggro nice, so whats the problem? Now I can make more dodges and dodges heal me. I have permanent Vigor now. And so many boons around I dont feel heal per sec drop. Now there is no even moment without Vigor

I undestand that if someone choose GS or Sword and was spamming crit autoattack, when each one was healing him, he will cry. But now you have to choose between DPS (Sword, Scepter, GS) and more tank/healing DPS (Hammer/Mace) and full Support/Heal (staff). I am glad becasue now Hammers are in better place since they heal more from Protection and Retalition, and Sword will be DPS weapon and no more free-heal each attack.

For me it wasnt nerf- it was balance change. Ur DPS or Tank/DPS? Now Choose. And try maybe something else with traits (I grabed Empowered Might today and testing it).

Before nerf, i was under permanent vigor. Now i am under permanent vigor. Where is the buff ? You run with hammer so you won’t feel the difference. Did you know the dps between a sword and hammer is very low in fact ? Read the guide of brutality.

You just gain more boons with hammer and more attacks speed with sword (nice with vp every second but not anymore).

Koga.7215:

crewthief.8649:

Empowering Might + omnomberry pie + Superior Sigil of Blood, is still very good survivability. If you haven’t tried it yet, it’s highly suggested. I’m just thinking that they basically made Empowering Might a requirement for maximizing an AH build now.

On a completely unrelated side note…why on Earth haven’t I levelled a Thief, they got buffed this patch! LMAO!

if your having a hard time surviving with this minor change, Thief would absolutely not be the class for you.

Um, i’m actually in this thread disputing those that are suggesting our survivability was severely nerfed with this current patch. I’m surviving fine. Thieves aren’t much of a problem for my build. But looking around at all the Thief QQ threads, I find it funny to say the least, that they got buffed. Survival on a Thief is easymode dude. Waste your time on something else, because you aren’t going to convince me that the Thief class is difficult to play.

Ganzo.5079:

crewthief.8649:

You don’t have to run a staff. Get Knights gear, mix in some Valkyrie for +crit damage and + vitality, pick up Empowering Might, get some Omnomberry Pie, drop a Superior Sigil of Blood in one or both of your weapons. You’ll be fine. You have to change up a bit, sure, but you do not HAVE to run a staff in order to run an AH build.

You know that every class can use this?
Omnom berry pie and sigil of blood have nothing to do with AH build… you dont need AH to run this combo so its not a solution to the problem.

Of course I know any class can use this. The sky isn’t falling down Ganzo, take some meds or something. I’m offering a work-around to the player stating that he doesn’t want to use the staff. You’ll note, I also included Empowering Might in my post…or did you just flatly dismiss that part?

Voltron.1043:

LOL! Reading this i feel like guardian was nerfed to ground. I was testing today my Hammer/AH 0/15/30/10/5 build in dungeons, and I dont feel diffrence. I still tank bosses, heal like crazy, and draw aggro nice, so whats the problem? Now I can make more dodges and dodges heal me. I have permanent Vigor now. And so many boons around I dont feel heal per sec drop. Now there is no even moment without Vigor

I undestand that if someone choose GS or Sword and was spamming crit autoattack, when each one was healing him, he will cry. But now you have to choose between DPS (Sword, Scepter, GS) and more tank/healing DPS (Hammer/Mace) and full Support/Heal (staff). I am glad becasue now Hammers are in better place since they heal more from Protection and Retalition, and Sword will be DPS weapon and no more free-heal each attack.

For me it wasnt nerf- it was balance change. Ur DPS or Tank/DPS? Now Choose. And try maybe something else with traits (I grabed Empowered Might today and testing it).

Having not read the guardian patch notes last night (looked at what they did for thief, then went to mess with him) and ended up running fractals and other dungeons on my guard as we were missing heavy’s I wouldn’t have ever noticed that there was a change that effects my AH build. (I run a tanky DPS shout AH build) As with normal my health was almost always 80% or higher but for after big hits from bosses, and even then I never felt even the slightest danger of being downed (unless i afk auto atk and don’t ever dodge).

I will say this change can effect heavy DPS crit builds who wanted to be a tank too, but lets get real you shouldn’t be doing mass damage and still be tanking like a pro. If you want to be a great tank for your group, you need to give up some dps, and if you want to be dps you need to give up some heal/tankyness.

crewthief.8649:

Ganzo.5079:

crewthief.8649:

You don’t have to run a staff. Get Knights gear, mix in some Valkyrie for +crit damage and + vitality, pick up Empowering Might, get some Omnomberry Pie, drop a Superior Sigil of Blood in one or both of your weapons. You’ll be fine. You have to change up a bit, sure, but you do not HAVE to run a staff in order to run an AH build.

You know that every class can use this?
Omnom berry pie and sigil of blood have nothing to do with AH build… you dont need AH to run this combo so its not a solution to the problem.

Of course I know any class can use this. The sky isn’t falling down Ganzo, take some meds or something. I’m offering a work-around to the player stating that he doesn’t want to use the staff. You’ll note, I also included Empowering Might in my post…or did you just flatly dismiss that part?

But you cant say that AH work fine, and suggest a combo that have nothing related to AH.
For empowering might, its good indeed for the NON hammer builds but take a master honor trait on a non hammer build can have a negative side.(honor is the HAMMER traitline) When with vigorous precision, the combo was on the same traitline, so after maxed valor, you can choose you own build.

If VP + AH is OP, i have no problem with a nerf, but not a Mindless nerf that maybe will be “fixed” the next Month.

AH was OP. It was nerfed. Makes sense to me.

ref.8196:

AH was OP. It was nerfed. Makes sense to me.

This is the same old kitten. This nerf to VP + AH come after the brutality guide is stikyed. So in Fact:

• They are discouraging people to discuss builds on forum, because then they balance that build with Massive Nerfs instead of try with little changes every time.

• To balance something they destroy something else. I think that this change aim to rebalance Hammer AH build, but in fact other AH builds(without hammer) are now only kitten.

Ganzo.5079:

crewthief.8649:

Ganzo.5079:

crewthief.8649:

You don’t have to run a staff. Get Knights gear, mix in some Valkyrie for +crit damage and + vitality, pick up Empowering Might, get some Omnomberry Pie, drop a Superior Sigil of Blood in one or both of your weapons. You’ll be fine. You have to change up a bit, sure, but you do not HAVE to run a staff in order to run an AH build.

You know that every class can use this?
Omnom berry pie and sigil of blood have nothing to do with AH build… you dont need AH to run this combo so its not a solution to the problem.

Of course I know any class can use this. The sky isn’t falling down Ganzo, take some meds or something. I’m offering a work-around to the player stating that he doesn’t want to use the staff. You’ll note, I also included Empowering Might in my post…or did you just flatly dismiss that part?

But you cant say that AH work fine, and suggest a combo that have nothing related to AH.
For empowering might, its good indeed for the NON hammer builds but take a master honor trait on a non hammer build can have a negative side.(honor is the HAMMER traitline) When with vigorous precision, the combo was on the same traitline, so after maxed valor, you can choose you own build.

If VP + AH is OP, i have no problem with a nerf, but not a Mindless nerf that maybe will be “fixed” the next Month.

I dunno, I was running AH, with Empowering Might, Hammer build before the patch, built defensively (Knights gear w/ mix of Valkyrie), i’ve not noticed much of a change in my survivability. And I generally don’t run the staff. I agree, the change to VP was probably a bit much, but at the end of the day, an AH Hammer build is still exceedingly viable and one of the better builds Guardians have.

You know im sick of reading the “pick up a hammer and l2dodge” spam on this thread. I played an AH + empowering might build, its not my cup of tea. And to HAVE to spend 20 extra trait points to make a trait work is stupid. They strait out broke AH for anything that isnt an empowering might build. And as for telling people to adapt, dont bother I already have, it is just annoying to destroy a build that fit my playstyle perfectly.

Hmm..Well, It’s a huge nerf, that’s true. No, it didn’t really help us at all in terms of vigor because if you were running the build correctly, you had vigor coming out of your ears as is.

Was the build OP..? hmm..I don’t know, maybe. I thought it was fair that I was more defensive if the warrior put out so much dps, but meh.

Anyhow, my only real issue with this is, if you’re going to directly nerf how a build works, put in some interesting alternatives. Fix the bugs, combine some of our traits (ex. symbols) and put in some alternatives.

Thats the other thing, I dont see how a class with horrible mobility is supposed to be OP because of a healing mechanic. The other classes all have alot more mobility and ranged options compared gaurdian. So why does the one thing that defines our class get a nerf like that.

Araris.7839:

Hmm..Well, It’s a huge nerf, that’s true. No, it didn’t really help us at all in terms of vigor because if you were running the build correctly, you had vigor coming out of your ears as is.

Was the build OP..? hmm..I don’t know, maybe. I thought it was fair that I was more defensive if the warrior put out so much dps, but meh.

Anyhow, my only real issue with this is, if you’re going to directly nerf how a build works, put in some interesting alternatives. Fix the bugs, combine some of our traits (ex. symbols) and put in some alternatives.

i will be happy if instead of massive nerf on 360 degrees, they make little changes time to time.

Before they nerfed us on our damage (SOW uptime, retaliation signets) now our healing capabilities. i dont know why, but i dont see a big design for guardians on this, but only nerf after nerf.
if our class rely on boon, i think that our boons must be different to the others they have to last long or they have to give us better effects, for now a warrior have better buff then us, with a better uptime (might, fury and swiftness) and they can cripple and immobilize with every weapon. so Go on close range for them is not a problem.

Maybe its better if they re-create this class From the base, because nerf after nerf, we are loosing all our powers, without take into account, all that traits\skills, that are simply useless from the beginning, and there are still USELESS even after a buff.

Koga.7215:

Voltron.1043:

LOL! Reading this i feel like guardian was nerfed to ground. I was testing today my Hammer/AH 0/15/30/10/5 build in dungeons, and I dont feel diffrence. I still tank bosses, heal like crazy, and draw aggro nice, so whats the problem? Now I can make more dodges and dodges heal me. I have permanent Vigor now. And so many boons around I dont feel heal per sec drop. Now there is no even moment without Vigor

I undestand that if someone choose GS or Sword and was spamming crit autoattack, when each one was healing him, he will cry. But now you have to choose between DPS (Sword, Scepter, GS) and more tank/healing DPS (Hammer/Mace) and full Support/Heal (staff). I am glad becasue now Hammers are in better place since they heal more from Protection and Retalition, and Sword will be DPS weapon and no more free-heal each attack.

For me it wasnt nerf- it was balance change. Ur DPS or Tank/DPS? Now Choose. And try maybe something else with traits (I grabed Empowered Might today and testing it).

Having not read the guardian patch notes last night (looked at what they did for thief, then went to mess with him) and ended up running fractals and other dungeons on my guard as we were missing heavy’s I wouldn’t have ever noticed that there was a change that effects my AH build. (I run a tanky DPS shout AH build) As with normal my health was almost always 80% or higher but for after big hits from bosses, and even then I never felt even the slightest danger of being downed (unless i afk auto atk and don’t ever dodge).

I will say this change can effect heavy DPS crit builds who wanted to be a tank too, but lets get real you shouldn’t be doing mass damage and still be tanking like a pro. If you want to be a great tank for your group, you need to give up some dps, and if you want to be dps you need to give up some heal/tankyness.

As said before i have 3200 armor, 2850 attack, 51% crit rate, 60% dmg crit and 14k healh.
Am i a tank ? Did you see my hp pool ? Am i a DPS ? No like thief…. WIth the AH healing, i don’t tank but i survive only if i can attack. I dont complain about thief, but they can backstab me for 5k (dead in 3 second if I dont dodge). Is it god mod ? No. Stacking thoughness is useless if you have no health. But if you can heal yourself, that could be interesting. That was the basement of high crit build. 800 thoughness = 25% dmg reduction. 800 vitality = 8k life.

Of course, the hammer AH is still competitive. High DPS and good self healing.

GS and Sword with AH ? Useless weapon in WvW. Sword healed me nicely because of attack speed and gs because of AOE.

Ganzo has proposed soemthing like this : VP working like power on crit (1s cd internal cd so it doesnt proc like 4 time at the same time because of aoe.). That would be a nerf (totally justified), that would hurt but sword/gs would be still awesome to play.

Well done, you have just destroyed a gameplay. That s not the end of the world, of course, it is just a game but i didn’t know reducing the variety of gameplay was a part of it.

Balthalzar.6243:

^it’s not completely destroyed lol

Not it’s not.

It still works.
But we are weaker.

However, people can still dodge out of my hammer 5, my rune of the soldier still doesnt remove conditions underwater, I still have a for show shield, and my health is far too low. Not to mention our sad joke called scepter.

We relly on boons and traits synergy to keep going, however, we are weaker today. Again.