Guild Wars 2

My guardian has accumulated dust for awhile but I’m thinking of bringing her out again to see some light. Last time I’ve played her, I had her geared out using the 0/0/30/30/10 Anchor build with knights gear and zerker accessories.

I’d like to respec her to do some more DPS but was wondering if there is a good DPS build that does not give up AH. I feel like I’ve gotten used to using that trait. Currently, I’m using:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|2.0.0.0.0.0|6.0.0.0.0.0|1g.0.1g.0.1g.0.1g.0.1g.0.1g.0|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.cg.67|0.0.u46b.u289.a1|0.0|0.16.19.18.1i|e

I sort of like the idea of using “squishy” (but high DPS gear) and defensive traits/utilities. It gives me the option to be more defensive if the situation calls for it. Does anyone have any suggestions that could improve things (other than giving up AH)?

Just to clarify, I’m playing her mostly for dungeons.

The fantastic thing about Guardians is you can have AH in almost any dps build… because you also get 30% crit dmg from the same tree. Your other points can be used where ever you feel comfortable… such as 20 points in power for more dmg to burning targets and 5% more dmg on gs w/heals. If you want even more survivablity run 20 points in the vitality tree for shout CD and might on crit.

Then you can pretty much go crazy with your gear. Guardians are naturally tanky, even more so with AH active. Plus the meta these days is to do as much dps as possible, so the build fits well into that.

As for weapons, if you really want to max dps I believe the highest rotation you can do is between gs/sword-focus. If you want more team support, gs-staff, and if you want to hybrid suitability and dps, gs-hammer. Sword and focus you use the 3-5 skills, switch and symbol/auto with gs. GS/staff- pop staff 4, atk with gs. GS/Hammer – dps with greatsword/use hammer on bosses/pulls you know your party will have trouble on.

Why not go 10/25/30/0/5? You could run AH. If you opt for a hammer the symbol gives a constant stream of healing. Its not as high dps as other optioins but nothing shameful.

Fallengrace.9821:

The fantastic thing about Guardians is you can have AH in almost any dps build… because you also get 30% crit dmg from the same tree. Your other points can be used where ever you feel comfortable… such as 20 points in power for more dmg to burning targets and 5% more dmg on gs w/heals. If you want even more survivablity run 20 points in the vitality tree for shout CD and might on crit.

Erm what? The only DPS build that can take AH is 10/30/30/0/0 (or its close relative mentioned by Relentliss) and that one is just egoistic and does not profit a lot from AH. Any builds that are suitable for groups have much better support but no AH, since you will always miss at least one of the three things: DPS, good support or AH.

If you really really really want to go AH i think 15/15/30/10/0 Hammer+GS would be a good choice. And do you know what’s kind of funny? Five points on honor alone would give you more surviability than AH and twenty points on honor would give more dps due to the perma symbol of protection.

TL;DR – Lol valor.

I will say it again points in virtue are really a waist not taking vigorous precision is foolish as well. A DPS build is essentially 10 25-30 x x 0. A few things to note. If I had to choose between AH and nothing I would run without AH. Why you ask? Well I do advocate running whatever you need to survive. That being said in a real DPS build AH isn’t going to do all that much. You usually will not be putting out as many boons as shout support. Your light field from GS is going to provide a lot of those ticks from buffing party members. If you are really glassy you probably wont even notice the the increased healing.

If you are going to go down valor do it for the meditations. In a group it will not be as useful as a support build but you will be straight DPS. Considering most of out roles (save stability) can be covered by other nobody is really going to notice unless the party hits snag.

Up to you. Run what you need to survive but no more.

What then is the alternative to a non-AH DPS build that isn’t glass? Would it be wiser to do the opposite of gearing defensively but using offensive traits/utilities? I have tried a zerker guard with a DPS build and didn’t like it (it was a long time ago so I can’t quite remember the stat distribution).

AH is a huge waste of trait points imo.

Because it’s the only trait you’re looking for in that line, and even then it’s not like AH is so godlike as some ppl describe it.

Even if you’re spamming boons (hammer auto all the time) those little greeen numbers won’t save your back from dieing more than a well timed dodge or F2/3 pop – unless you’re running heavy on Healing Power but if we’re talking about DPS builds, i’ll give that you’re using at very least a Knight/Zerk combo, if not full zerk.

Also, AH promotes bad play. Because you start using skills “To heal myself by applying boons with AH” not for their actual use – see SYG and shouts. It’s also very selfish, because (on paper) it will just help you to survive longer.

Freeing those 30 pts also gives a TON of new build options. Especially involving Radiance (RHS) and Zeal/Virtues.

It will also “force” you to improve, because, for example, you won’t use anymore SYG for the (minimal) healing due to applying Retal/Stability to 5 targets, but for the actual Retal/Stability needs.

My 2 cents.

For the other question:

What then is the alternative to a non-AH DPS build that isn’t glass? Would it be wiser to do the opposite of gearing defensively but using offensive traits/utilities? I have tried a zerker guard with a DPS build and didn’t like it (it was a long time ago so I can’t quite remember the stat distribution).

30 pts in radiance (Blind exposure, powerful blades, RHS) and 20 in honor (superior aria, EM) fixed.
Then pick up 2 of:
-10 in zeal, fiery wrath
-10 in virtues, master of consacretions
-10 more in Honor for PoV

So either
10/30/0/20/10 < personal favourite
10/30/0/30/0
0/30/0/30/10

Gear, Knight or Zerk armor as you find more comfortable with.
Zerk trinkets.
Zerk weapons.

If you’re not running PoV or simply want extra survivability, Soldier runes.
Otherwise, any DPS option (Ruby orbs, scholar, Ranger) is valid.

Sword/Focus + GS,Hammer,Scepter/Focus as needed.
Shelter, SYG, Retreat, WoR, RF as standard skills.

This is what I’m currently using, its very similar to what you currently have:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJAWRlYgyC33xKEf4ESWhCE7BGBfd01DHiiYIA-j0CBYLBiiAgwAK5pIaslhBt6KjlXJSbDT5CW7CSFTIVKgnmAA-w

Same build, using the site you used:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.4|1.1g.h15.0.0.0|6.1g.h15.0.0.0|1g.71m.1g.71m.1g.71g.1g.71g.1g.71h.1g.71h|2v.0.2s.0.2t.0.2v.0.3v.0.2v.0|0.0.u56b.u28b.a1|54.8|v.16.18.19.1i|e

0/0/30/30/10

v, vi, ix
ii, viii, xi
I

I find that I can do a fairly high amount of damage (101% crit damage), whilst also being very tanky (1590 toughness/2801 armor ) whilst also providing an almost permanent 12-20 stacks of might just by myself (5 from empowering might, 12 from empower, 3 from justice), healing/regen/condiclears (PoV anyone?)/BOONS AND MORE BOONS.

With a 40% crit chance (51% with stacks) and plenty of fury from my party, I am critting all over the place, which procs my food and sigils, so I am also healing myself/doing more damage.

While 14k hp is kind of low (usually sits at 15k thanks to wuv wuv boosts) I find that I have no problem at all with this amount, and I also have 360 healing power, (500hp dodge roll heals with perm vigor is nice, also increases healing and regen ticks.

1866 power and 2977 attack are still very reasonable, and coupled with the 101% crit damage, I really do end up doing a nice amount of damage.

Overall, im currently loving this build, its been working great for me in dungeons/pve/fractals and also very well in Wuv Wuv (small teams/zerging it out) but when I want to solo roam, all I do is swap the shouts to meditations and swap out the traits in honor for the meditation traits, (swap some in valor to personal preference too, I like the heal on aegis removal) and just take out staff for a good old sword/focus.

~I am actually using the cheep assed dragon candy thing that gives the 66% chance for life steal, not the omnom, but I couldn’t find it in the build craft (second link) site

Also,

0/0/10/30/30 works just as well, if you would prefer to go more into your virtues rather then AH (75% boon duration is lovely ey, and the extra condition clears/stability or stun breaks are great sometimes)

(if you wanted more toughness, you can switch out the rings to be cav, you loose 5% crit chance and 80 power for 200 toughness/armor, and if you wanted even more, you can swap out some of the armor for knights pieces and drop a bit of crit damage)

And there you go, Reasonable DPS, Reasonable Support, and AH

spalt.6938:

What then is the alternative to a non-AH DPS build that isn’t glass? Would it be wiser to do the opposite of gearing defensively but using offensive traits/utilities? I have tried a zerker guard with a DPS build and didn’t like it (it was a long time ago so I can’t quite remember the stat distribution).

Hammer with 15/15/0/20/20. If Berserker is too offensive for you you can try Soldier armor and Berserker trinkets.

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

And there you go, DPS, Reasonable Support, and AH

Scratch DPS, then it’s correct.

spalt.6938:

What then is the alternative to a non-AH DPS build that isn’t glass? Would it be wiser to do the opposite of gearing defensively but using offensive traits/utilities? I have tried a zerker guard with a DPS build and didn’t like it (it was a long time ago so I can’t quite remember the stat distribution).

The current skeleton that most guard builds are based off of now is:

10(II)/15(VI)/0/5/10(VI) (30 unspent trait points)

From here the core playstyle starts with spaming your virtue of justice. Doing so will:

• blind nearby foes and put 3 stacks of vuln on them
• give 3 stacks of might to the party
• have the next out going attack of each party member burn, procing your 10% damage to burning foes trait

and this recharges every time something you have damaged dies.

Between this, and blinds from 1h sword/focus or GS you can keep silver mobs chain blinded to avoid damage while killing them. For Bosses, your survivability should come from knowing when to dodge (you have vigor on crit hits) and using Virtue of Courage/Retreat to Aegis as well as Shelter/Renewed focus.

Purging Flame replaces Pure of Voice/Solider runes in the old AH build. It removes 3 condis on the onset, reduces condi duration while standing in it, and is a fire field that can be blasted for might stacks (your second option will be traiting your Virtue of Resolve to remove 3 condis which is rechargeable with Renewed Focus that’ll get discussed later).

Due to the usefulness of Purging Flame and Wall of Reflection, you’ll always want Master of Consecrations, but if there’s ever a fight where those aren’t needed (Simin in Arah 4 comes to mind) you can swap in Unscathed Contender for more DPS.

Other utilities you’ll commonly see on your bar:

• Retreat -> aegis for bosses, running through trash
• Stand your Ground -> Stability
• Judge’s Intervention -> trash runs, target something out of range ahead of you, teleport then untarget
• Shield of the Avenger -> when Wall of Reflection isn’t enough (mostly in fractals)
• Bane Signet -> for the passive when there’s nothing better to bring
• Hallowed ground -> not a common option, but a long duration fire field to blast + stability can be useful to some groups

Renewed Focus will almost always be your elite (exceptions do exist, such as the jade maw’s agony at high levels)

For your healing skill, I find that the signet overheals you in most cases so prefer shelter, which beyond healing can also be used to just outright avoid damage. But this is really up to personal preference.

Options from Here:

GS build:
20(II, VII)/25(VI, X)/0/5/10(VI) (10 open points)

Traits obviously focusing on buffing the GS damage. The most likely place to put the 10 extra points is in virtues to gain Absolute Resolution to have your Virtue of Resolve act as a second condi removal (or the only one to free up purging flame’s spot on your bar if you don’t need much removal). If you find yourself not needing vigor, you can drop the 5 in Honor and go 25 Virtues for more Damage.

This build would probably feel the most similar to the old AH build as you’ll have the stronger passive heal on your Virtue of Resolve and a passive heal on your GS attacks (add in life steal food for even more passive heal)

Other options would 5 in honor for Superior Aria (faster aegis/stability), The other 5 would go into Radiance for Signet Mastery or Perfect Inscription (to buff the Signet Heals CD or the Signet Heal and Bane Signet’s Passive) or Zeal for more damage on your Symbol of Wrath.

Weapon Swap is likely a staff would probably work best, here you can put a stacking sigil (perception is probably best) to easily tag trash for a quick charge. Also has might stacks before a fight and CC options with line of warding.

Sword/Focus Build
10(II)/30(VI, X, XI)/0/10(II)/20(VI, IX)

While losing the passive heal from GS attacks, you gain an extra blind and the focus shield and zealot’s defense to help mitigate damage.

Your auto attack will do more damage then the GS (also zealot’s defense is a channeled skill, so while the numbers look bigger, it’s actually less damaging, save it for the defensive use) Also you’ll get some burst damage from the focus shield if it doesn’t break.

On weapon swap either staff for the same usage as the GS build (stack bloodlust over perception due to the higher crit chance with right hand strength) or use a GS for utility (binding blade) and burst damage (Symbol of Wrath + Whirling Wrath)

More DPS options would be dropping the honor line for 20 in Zeal (increase the GS burst with Zealous Blade) or 30 in virtues (Unscathed Contender)

continued below

Hammer Build
15(II)/15(VI)/0/20(III, VII)/10(VI) (10 open points)

Most useful for difficult content where the 100% protection up time will be useful (high level fractals). Always make sure the auto attack chain finishes unless you really need to dodge.

10 open points can go into radiance (more damage), Valor (Strength in Numbers) for more party defense, or Radiance (Absolute Resolution condi cleanse).

The point of a hammer build is for the protection up time, so you’ll probably not want to swap your weapon much, but bring whatever you think will give you the most utility – staff for line of warding in addition to ring of warding and might stacks (assuming the party isn’t blasting a fire field for these); GS for the pull; sword/focus for blinds/shield.

The ideal armor is berserker + scholar runes (ruby orbs if you can’t afford scholar). but mixing in some knights pieces (do this on armor not on trinkets – also the higher toughness of knights will make any passive healing from life steal food/VoR stronger then soliders would without sacrificing as much DPS) will help you to avoid feeling like glass while your learning how to cycle your blinds/aegis/shelter/renewed focus/dodges/reflects to avoid damage. After some practice I’m sure you’ll find yourself not needing the extra defense and you can start moving to a pure berserker gear set up.

Hope this helps!

PS, feel free to send me a whisper in game if you have any questions.

I’ve been pugging 40+ fractals for a really long time smoothly with 0/30/30/0/10, I switch unscathed defender and consecration duration/cds often, I use several weapons but scepter/focus damage is real nice with aegis kept up, i’m all about maximizing single target dps while still being able to block projectiles when I need to, some boss fights I do with 100% berserker and like 11k hp.

Altruistic healing I could care less about altho it does save me sometimes esp on stuff like dredge trash with gs/staff, I just want the crit damage and the toughness helps me a bit being full zerk often.

I use +endurance food on lava boss and some other times to make life easier without the vigor procs on crit.

@CptAurellian, Other then the fact that I *know* I have DPS, I’m using the kitten build right now for gods sake, who are you to say that I don’t? are you using the exact same build as me? have you used the exact same build as me before? No? Maybe? you probably aren’t and your short reply does nothing to back up your statement that I have "no dps"

As for your previous post that "The only DPS build that can take AH is 10/30/30/0/0" Oh, it looks like your wrong, because I’m not using that and I have dps.

At 1st I use AH too them try rebuild and now I use this non AH build I dont have any problem with dungeons or fractals 40+ (obviously for fractals I change in some parts shouts for wall or spirit shield)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJAWRlYgCCXFSLEfIFRuAbGEEgVFiH2DMmxOC-jkxAY/ARFCUyrIasthioxqsxUuER1A-w

when I need more range just do this litle change

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAW7flYgCCXFSLEfIFRuAbGEEhVFiH2DMmxOC-j0xAYfBZiAMVIQJviox2GKiGryGT5SEVDA-w

AH is interesting at first but I think we have other options that bring good dps survivability and basic group support for pve like most people here post too.

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

@CptAurellian, Other then the fact that I know I have DPS, I’m using the kitten build right now for gods sake, who are you to say that I don’t? are you using the exact same build as me? have you used the exact same build as me before? No? Maybe? you probably aren’t and your short reply does nothing to back up your statement that I have “no dps”

As for your previous post that “The only DPS build that can take AH is 10/30/30/0/0” Oh, it looks like your wrong, because I’m not using that and I have dps.

I’ve seen guardian’s do 7k auto attacks (12k sword waves) and 40k+ whirling wraths. Using that as a benchmark, where does your build fall in terms of DPS?

Yes CptAurellian didn’t do anything to back up his statement of you doing no DPS, but you also didn’t do anything to back up your statement that it WAS good DPS.

Sure you quoted your stats, but that is only half of it. Critical Damage does not scale as well as damage multipliers, and that’s where the Valor line falls short of the other 4. Zeal and Radiance each have 10% modifiers that can easily be maintained (to burning foes and foes with conditions).

While your build does have a 10% modifier from elusive power, vigorous precision can end up working against you there. It is similarly hard to keep up Unscathed Contender for the 20% mod. Also your build isn’t using Scholar runes so there is another potential 10% mod lost.

Using that rational, it is very reasonable for CptAurellian to assume that your build isn’t doing good DPS without strong evidence to the contrary.

Also your build falls in support options as opposed to most of the builds I listed. Pure of Voice + 3 shouts can only cure 3 condis before putting itself into cooldown. Purging Flame + Absolute Resolution, you can cure 9 very quickly (recharging VoR with Renewed Focus) while creating a field where condi time is lessened and can be blasted for might stacks.

PoV/AH builds become even less effective when the situation requires Wall of Reflection as your down to only able to clean 2 condis (and only 2 shouts to get AH buffs from). The newer builds have no problem taking Wall and Purging to maintain both reflects and condi cleanse.

I did play the 0/0/30/30/10 build back when it was popular. I have switched to 10/30/0/10/20 since then. I find myself able to do better DPS and support my party better with the new build.

That said, the new builds do require a much more active play style. Back when I did AH I was easily able to tank some hits that would likely one or two shot me now and proceed to heal up with empower/shouts/empowering might/etc. The thing is, I’ve now spent enough time playing that I can see those hits coming and avoid the damage though dodges/aegis/blinds/etc.

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

@CptAurellian, Other then the fact that I know I have DPS, I’m using the kitten build right now for gods sake, who are you to say that I don’t? are you using the exact same build as me? have you used the exact same build as me before? No? Maybe? you probably aren’t and your short reply does nothing to back up your statement that I have “no dps”

As for your previous post that “The only DPS build that can take AH is 10/30/30/0/0” Oh, it looks like your wrong, because I’m not using that and I have dps.

Even a full giver player has DPS. It’s just very, very, very bad DPS. While your AH build may not be on that level, it is not on a level I’d call good, hence “DPS”. AH puts out some mediocre damage, but the traits alone are something like 20-25% (no time for a really exact calculation today) below the output of the weakest build I regard as DPS (Brazil’s old one). Trinkets, secondary weapon and runes make the gap even larger.

Oh, and before you ask: Yes, I do have played some similar builds for quite some time until they got boring. They are no DPS.

First off, thank you everyone for all the detailed input! You’ve given me all a lot to think about.

I think at this time, I will try out first Natsu’s build. It gives me greater leeway for possibly making mistakes while still practicing on the class. At the very least, it can give significant buffs to party mates through might and shouts even though it may be far from max/high dps builds.

I am, however, interested in trying durend’s sword/focus build some time in the future. I do not have an exotic sword available for use at this time (and have not in fact used sword ever, except to unlock the skills) so at the very least I’ll wait till there are enough dungeon tokens for it.

Hallowed Ground since the patch is pretty good at boost the DPS of hybrid/support builds:

3x Hammer Blasts in the fire field now gives 9 might stacks for 24 seconds ( minimum ).
Stability is applied 11 times proc’ing AH 11*{Number_of_Allies} – so with 5 allies that’s 4-4.5k (Master of Consecrations) of healing for yourself over it’s duration without investing in Healing Power.

The amount off kittened builds being thrown around in here is insane.

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

@CptAurellian, Other then the fact that I know I have DPS, I’m using the kitten build right now for gods sake, who are you to say that I don’t? are you using the exact same build as me? have you used the exact same build as me before? No? Maybe? you probably aren’t and your short reply does nothing to back up your statement that I have “no dps”

As for your previous post that “The only DPS build that can take AH is 10/30/30/0/0” Oh, it looks like your wrong, because I’m not using that and I have dps.

you may have decent DPS due to the raw 30 critdmg from valour, but that build is utter trash because no condition cleansing + consecration traiting.

also my advice to OP is to read durend’s post because it’s detailed and provides sound advice in general.

guanlongwucaii.3162:

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

@CptAurellian, Other then the fact that I know I have DPS, I’m using the kitten build right now for gods sake, who are you to say that I don’t? are you using the exact same build as me? have you used the exact same build as me before? No? Maybe? you probably aren’t and your short reply does nothing to back up your statement that I have “no dps”

As for your previous post that “The only DPS build that can take AH is 10/30/30/0/0” Oh, it looks like your wrong, because I’m not using that and I have dps.

you may have decent DPS due to the raw 30 critdmg from valour, but that build is utter trash because no condition cleansing + consecration traiting.

also my advice to OP is to read durend’s post because it’s detailed and provides sound advice in general.

Where is condition cleansing even needed in the dungeons? I can’t think of anywhere it helps much, regarding consecrations though I agree and that’s why i’d always do 0/30/30/0/10 instead of 10/30/30, alot of fights I can keep up aegis the whole way for unscathed defender if I choose that instead of consecrations trait.

Anicetus.1253:

The amount off kittened builds being thrown around in here is insane.

Well, OP did ask for builds with AH, it is pretty obvious that anything in here is kittened. lol

Incomingray.8075:

guanlongwucaii.3162:

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

@CptAurellian, Other then the fact that I know I have DPS, I’m using the kitten build right now for gods sake, who are you to say that I don’t? are you using the exact same build as me? have you used the exact same build as me before? No? Maybe? you probably aren’t and your short reply does nothing to back up your statement that I have “no dps”

As for your previous post that “The only DPS build that can take AH is 10/30/30/0/0” Oh, it looks like your wrong, because I’m not using that and I have dps.

you may have decent DPS due to the raw 30 critdmg from valour, but that build is utter trash because no condition cleansing + consecration traiting.

also my advice to OP is to read durend’s post because it’s detailed and provides sound advice in general.

Where is condition cleansing even needed in the dungeons? I can’t think of anywhere it helps much, regarding consecrations though I agree and that’s why i’d always do 0/30/30/0/10 instead of 10/30/30, alot of fights I can keep up aegis the whole way for unscathed defender if I choose that instead of consecrations trait.

AC – spiderqueen weakness and bleeding, ascalonian ghost trash mob condi spam
CM – LOTS of bleeds and condis
TA – trash mobs do some condis, vevina while tafu existed, etc
SE – nokk, poison golem, p3 1st boss, destroyer of worlds – lots of condis
COF – not so much, mainly a bit of easily avoidable burning, some minor condis from other trash
HOTW – some cripples and chill
COE – burning from alpha, golems bleed/burn, etc
Arah – ……….

just a cursory glance at dungeons in general. not taking condition removal is not wise.

guanlongwucaii.3162:

AC – spiderqueen weakness and bleeding, ascalonian ghost trash mob condi spam
CM – LOTS of bleeds and condis
TA – trash mobs do some condis, vevina while tafu existed, etc
SE – nokk, poison golem, p3 1st boss, destroyer of worlds – lots of condis
COF – not so much, mainly a bit of easily avoidable burning, some minor condis from other trash
HOTW – some cripples and chill
COE – burning from alpha, golems bleed/burn, etc
Arah – ……….

just a cursory glance at dungeons in general. not taking condition removal is not wise.

Fair enough I guess I don’t do much regular dungeons and when I do it’s with a pretty solid group and my 10 in virtues purging flames helps enough when there is a bit of condition drama, it just never seems to be too big of a deal… in high level fractals however conditions are a total non-issue and I guess that’s what I do mostly.

I’ve never had interest in doing Arah i’m guessing that’s the one where I may want to switch up my build a little bit if my group has bad condi removal.

If you insist that you must have AH, I’d I’d consider:

0 / 0 / 30 / 20 / 20

or

0 / 30 / 30 / 5 / 5

Gguang, so my build is trash because it doesn’t have condi clears or concentration traiting?

Lets see, if you had even looked at it, PoV with 3 shouts is condition clensing, and is easily enough when the rest of your party will have clenses too,

Concentration traiting? why? im not bloody using concentrations am I? sure, if I wanted to put them on I can easily just swap out unscathed contender for them cant I?

@Erich, yeah 0/0/30/20/20 is pretty nice, and that extra 3 clears on resolve is great =p
as for 0/30/30/5/5 I find that the survivability drops off significantly as I’m of the opinion that radiance is an almost useless tree ^^

get mad

consecrations are amazing utility, Wall of Reflection is one of the best utilities out there and purging/hallowed are strong as well. most pug guardians don’t know how to use wall though

and you said you were using a 10/30/30 spec, which has no traited consecrations. and if you moved 10 points out of any traitline to take MoC your build would have garbage dps anyway if you wanted to keep AH.

Yep, I’m not exactly getting mad, but that’s for assuming though,

I know that, and I know how to use them, and as it happens, I just like boons more most of the time, that’s just me personally though.

Also, I said I was using a 0/0/30/30/10, not 0/0/10/30/30, I merely said that you could take that instead if you didn’t want ah and wanted a bit more support/utility.

Anyway, I really think you should actually read posts properly before you start posting elitist stuff all over the place and trying to shut down perfectly viable builds just because they aren’t what you are using.

@op, glad you are giving it a try, and yeah, its not a “Max DPS” build, its just the build I prefer to play that has a reasonable amount of dps, whilst also providing enough support and survivability to keep myself alive and also all those “Max DPS” people who, from my last year of playing this game, I have found spend more time dead then anything ^^

it’s not a reasonable amount of dps.

any build is viable in most forms of PvE but only a few are optimal. no point discussing the suboptimal builds because I can just as easily say that I run 30/0/0/10/30 guardian and that it works “fine”.

the 0/0/10/30/30 is even less DPS than the terrible AH spread while providing only a bit more support than a normal 10/30/0/5/25 spread in terms of boon duration (lol healing).

if OP is looking for a defensive spread that works well in PvE it has already been suggested, hammer 15/15 builds are all providing good support while also doing good damage, and also have great survivability.

those arguing against zerker/glass/max DPS builds, you do have to realize where they’re coming from. and too often when you come across them with your “spending more time being dead than anything” excuses, it’s more often than not they’re just copynig whatever they read online, or not even traiting properly, and they don’t properly avoid mechanics that they need to avoid. everyone needs to practice somewhere sometime.

if someone can survive just as well as you while doign twice the DPS, why the hell not? again, people have different playstyles and OP was asking for a build that can survive well and do MAX DPS WHILE surviving. and that’s what people offered. no need to get your undies in a bunch cause of a few bad runs. [added: hell, i’m practicing goign more DPS than i’m used to and i do land flat on my face a few times, but then i ask questions, i figure out what i’m doing wrong and learn and yes, EVOLVEEEE.

so @OP, don’t believe that all “DPS-ers” are bad. at the same time, from the sounds of it you do want to do damage and not just “support” either. so, i’d say best is find a combination of DPS vs sustainability that you’re comfortable with and go from there. try out different traits each time, try out different gear when you can afford to. learn the instances and hopefully you find find people who are patient enough to help you when you need it and that you’re open and willing to learn.]

The gist of this whole conversation being that if you want to run AH, you’re better off not trying to be DPS at the same time, and vice versa. Any build with any acceptable amount of DPS will not only lose out on a lot of valuable guardian support options in order to fit in AH, but you won’t even get that much benefit out of AH itself. On the other hand, if you’re actually trying to build to make AH effective, you’re investing so much into AH that your DPS will be crap.

One or the other is what we’re saying. And typically the consensus is that for PvE at least, DPS is much more useful than self-regen.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The gist of this whole conversation being that if you want to run AH, you’re better off not trying to be DPS at the same time, and vice versa. Any build with any acceptable amount of DPS will not only lose out on a lot of valuable guardian support options in order to fit in AH, but you won’t even get that much benefit out of AH itself. On the other hand, if you’re actually trying to build to make AH effective, you’re investing so much into AH that your DPS will be crap.

One or the other is what we’re saying. And typically the consensus is that for PvE at least, DPS is much more useful than self-regen.

In high level fractals mainly(48 and up) 0/30/30/0/10 I find is high single target dps with scepter/sword primarily if you play it right, in full zerk, 75% crit, it is a steady reliable stream of dps especially if you can keep aegis up most boss fights which I can, the toughness you get with the crit damage helps work with being in full zerkers, AH actually does help keep me alive sometimes being so squishy with 11k hp(esp on trash), on the fights where my group needs projectile blocking or some condition cleansing(never needed in fractals really) I can always do that.

I could drop some points out of valor for a bit more dps but I just don’t think it’s worth it, being around 75% crit without fury I think i’m getting good value from my crit damage in the valor tree, I really believe this build has acceptable dps and doesn’t sacrafice too much utility(esp fractals where condition cleansing is irrelevant).

WvW healing is my main thing but i’ve always done high level fractals on the side(pugging, makes the toughness/strength in numbers more helpful) and I feel really good about my build, I just don’t see its shortcomings or how some of you could say it’s a bad build, what am I really missing? How much more single target damage do you think I could do than this setup?(without being unreasonably squishy, again I like many pug fractals) Scepter with unscathed up with this build just seems like such nice numbers scrolling by the entire boss fights, I can switch to sword alot of times.. the few fights where projectile blocking is real crucial I can go without unscathed and use master of consecrations.

Incomingray.8075:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The gist of this whole conversation being that if you want to run AH, you’re better off not trying to be DPS at the same time, and vice versa. Any build with any acceptable amount of DPS will not only lose out on a lot of valuable guardian support options in order to fit in AH, but you won’t even get that much benefit out of AH itself. On the other hand, if you’re actually trying to build to make AH effective, you’re investing so much into AH that your DPS will be crap.

One or the other is what we’re saying. And typically the consensus is that for PvE at least, DPS is much more useful than self-regen.

In high level fractals mainly(48 and up) 0/30/30/0/10 I find is high single target dps with scepter/sword primarily if you play it right, in full zerk, 75% crit, it is a steady reliable stream of dps especially if you can keep aegis up most boss fights which I can, the toughness you get with the crit damage helps work with being in full zerkers, AH actually does help keep me alive sometimes being so squishy with 11k hp(esp on trash), on the fights where my group needs projectile blocking or some condition cleansing(never needed in fractals really) I can always do that.

I could drop some points out of valor for a bit more dps but I just don’t think it’s worth it, being around 75% crit without fury I think i’m getting good value from my crit damage in the valor tree, I really believe this build has acceptable dps and doesn’t sacrafice too much utility(esp fractals where condition cleansing is irrelevant).

WvW healing is my main thing but i’ve always done high level fractals on the side(pugging, makes the toughness/strength in numbers more helpful) and I feel really good about my build, I just don’t see its shortcomings or how some of you could say it’s a bad build, what am I really missing? How much more single target damage do you think I could do than this setup? Scepter with unscathed up with this build just seems like such nice numbers scrolling by the entire boss fights, I don’t have to dodge out or anything and I can switch to sword alot of times.. the few fights where projectile blocking is real crucial I can go without unscathed and use master of consecrations.

If you had actually done high level fractals, you would know that AH is useless and that the valor line in general isn’t helping you. It gets to the point where even with strength and numbers and protection, trash and bosses a lot of the time will simply one hit you (see: 60+). Sword/Scepter is also incredibly horrible for fractals like ascalon and dredge, where you need to be able to cleave effectively.

So yes, your build is bad. AH is not worth taking, and you would be better off with points elsewhere. You aren’t helping your team, and you’re hardly helping yourself. I mean, you don’t even have 5 points in honor. Really?

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

If you had actually done high level fractals, you would know that AH is useless and that the valor line in general isn’t helping you. It gets to the point where even with strength and numbers and protection, trash and bosses a lot of the time will simply one hit you (see: 60+). Sword/Scepter is also incredibly horrible for fractals like ascalon and dredge, where you need to be able to cleave effectively.

So yes, your build is bad. AH is not worth taking, and you would be better off with points elsewhere. You aren’t helping your team, and you’re hardly helping yourself.

True I haven’t done 60+ but levels before it I can cleave just fine with my build on ascalon and dredge, the trash is easy and dies fast in every pug I join(no I do not use scepter on the trash), I find it hard to believe it gets that much more difficult at 60, but I guess I don’t care much cause 40s and 50s are high enough for me anyways i’m not a hardcore pve’er, if my build is bad at 60 then so be it i’ll probably never know.

Most of fractals is burning down a single target, I find it hard to believe that I could do significantly more single target damage than full zerk scepter in this setup

I’m pretty sure I help my team with consecrations when it’s needed and the damage is high and constant, have you done scepter or sword with 30 in radiance 30 in valor and 100% zerkers? I’m getting the most out of the crit damage and I pug so I benefit from the valor.. it is not a bad build, it’s not all about lev60 fractals also.

It is a bad build, because AH is a bad trait. Sword does not cleave well enough for dredge, especially not on the clown car (mostly on the clown car). You’re investing 30 points into a trait line which has one useful trait, and that trait just so happens to be in the Adept traits (it’s arguable how useful it is as well). This means, that you have taken 30 points out of useful lines, which is gimping your build for no reason than for an unnecessary crutch.

First of all, you don’t even have 5 in honor. Why? Why would you not take the ability to have permanent vigor, its possibly the most powerful minor trait a guardian has. 0 points in Zeal, another powerful trait line. You no longer have the ability to take +10% damage, or to make your spirit weapons (shield of the avenger) last longer. You’ve taken extra points out of virtues and/or honor, which both have very useful traits varying between condition removal, elite skills last longer, 2H cooldown, bubble on res, shout cooldowns and spirit weapon cooldowns.

No build with 30 in Valor is a good PvE guardian build, and no good guardian would run a build like that. You’re sacrificing too many trait points for a bad trait that doesn’t do anything other than promote poor play (see: crutch). The crit damage from valor is not as good as base damage modifiers, which you’ve completely neglected.

Incomingray.8075:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The gist of this whole conversation being that if you want to run AH, you’re better off not trying to be DPS at the same time, and vice versa. Any build with any acceptable amount of DPS will not only lose out on a lot of valuable guardian support options in order to fit in AH, but you won’t even get that much benefit out of AH itself. On the other hand, if you’re actually trying to build to make AH effective, you’re investing so much into AH that your DPS will be crap.

One or the other is what we’re saying. And typically the consensus is that for PvE at least, DPS is much more useful than self-regen.

In high level fractals mainly(48 and up) 0/30/30/0/10 I find is high single target dps with scepter/sword primarily if you play it right, in full zerk, 75% crit, it is a steady reliable stream of dps especially if you can keep aegis up most boss fights which I can, the toughness you get with the crit damage helps work with being in full zerkers, AH actually does help keep me alive sometimes being so squishy with 11k hp(esp on trash), on the fights where my group needs projectile blocking or some condition cleansing(never needed in fractals really) I can always do that.

I could drop some points out of valor for a bit more dps but I just don’t think it’s worth it, being around 75% crit without fury I think i’m getting good value from my crit damage in the valor tree, I really believe this build has acceptable dps and doesn’t sacrafice too much utility(esp fractals where condition cleansing is irrelevant).

WvW healing is my main thing but i’ve always done high level fractals on the side(pugging, makes the toughness/strength in numbers more helpful) and I feel really good about my build, I just don’t see its shortcomings or how some of you could say it’s a bad build, what am I really missing? How much more single target damage do you think I could do than this setup?(without being unreasonably squishy, again I like many pug fractals) Scepter with unscathed up with this build just seems like such nice numbers scrolling by the entire boss fights, I can switch to sword alot of times.. the few fights where projectile blocking is real crucial I can go without unscathed and use master of consecrations.

And where are you getting boons from with a trait spread like that? You’re gimping your own DPS and forgoing support for your allies in exchange for a trait that will regen you when you get a boon, except you have no consistent boon application so you won’t even get that regen. Not to mention you don’t even have 5 in Honor so you won’t get vigor application, which means you will likely die more, not less.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

It is a bad build, because AH is a bad trait. Sword does not cleave well enough for dredge, especially not on the clown car (mostly on the clown car). You’re investing 30 points into a trait line which has one useful trait, and that trait just so happens to be in the Adept traits (it’s arguable how useful it is as well). This means, that you have taken 30 points out of useful lines, which is gimping your build for no reason for than an unnecessary crutch.

First of all, you don’t even have 5 in honor. Why? Why would you not take the ability to have permanent vigor, its possibly the most powerful minor trait a guardian has. 0 points in Zeal, another powerful trait line. You no longer have the ability to take +10% damage, or to make your spirit weapons (shield of the avenger) last longer. You’ve taken extra points out of virtues and/or honor, which both have very useful traits varying between condition removal, elite skills last longer, 2H cooldown, bubble on res, shout cooldowns and spirit weapon cooldowns.

No build with 30 in Valor is a good PvE guardian build, and no good guardian would run a build like that. You’re sacrificing too many trait points for a bad trait that doesn’t do anything other than promote poor play (see: crutch). The crit damage from valor is not as good as base damage modifiers, which you’ve completely neglected.

I use GS or hammer/staff on trash and like I said it’s easy, why do you assume I use sword, I don’t see how the trash in 40s/50s fractals is a big deal, it isn’t for me with my build, on dredge I swap out some pieces of berserker, I use sigil of stamina so I can dodge all the time, sorry but trash in fractals is a non-issue for me, again maybe at 60 it magically becomes super difficult but i’m doubting it.

5 in honor: I do not need this at all, I used to have it, I always have it 99% of my playtime which is WvW so i’m very familiar with its worth, on lava boss I use +endurance food so I can tank him infinitely on whatever level, do not need at all, lava boss is the one place.

condition removal, elite skills last longer, 2H cooldown, bubble on res, shout cooldowns and spirit weapon cooldowns.

I dont need that stuff in fractals 40s/50s, it goes fine without it all for me, I used to use all that stuff in various builds, I just feel it’s all unnecessary in the usual pugs of people who know what they’re doing.

Again i’m not going down valor to get altruistic healing, I just want the toughness and crit damage at the end rather than zeal tree, strength in numbers is helpful, altruistic healing does help keep me up in some situations.

I don’t see the extra damage id get from zeal line worth it compared to getting the toughness/crit damage together as i’m usually full zerk(with 75 or more crit% before fury, how is 30% crit damage so much worse than the damage modifiers?).

My build is definitely a pug-born fractals build but I find it’s a good one and my runs go smoothly and I know my single target damage is high and helping melt the bosses.. i’m not a liability on trash and I do my job with consecrations when I need to.

condition removal, elite skills last longer, 2H cooldown, bubble on res, shout cooldowns and spirit weapon cooldowns.

I dont need that stuff in fractals 40s/50s, it goes fine without it all for me, I used to use all that stuff in various builds, I just feel it’s all unnecessary in the usual pugs of people who know what they’re doing.

You don’t need AH either, and yet here we are. Useful utility vs useless utility. You’re there on a guardian to provide utility and damage; and with your build you aren’t optimally doing either.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

And where are you getting boons from with a trait spread like that? You’re gimping your own DPS and forgoing support for your allies in exchange for a trait that will regen you when you get a boon, except you have no consistent boon application so you won’t even get that regen. Not to mention you don’t even have 5 in Honor so you won’t get vigor application, which means you will likely die more, not less.

Well I don’t die much, hardly ever, on trash with the 2handers I put out boons and activate VoJ and other virtues if I need the trickle heals to help me a bit, my allies dont need more support than I give them in my experience and again where am I really gimping my damage that badly picking up more crit damage at such a high crit%? The toughness that comes with it and emergency trickle heals from AH let me get away with pugging in full zerkers more consistently.

Again I admit i’m a WvW player and don’t take pve as serious as you guys obviously do, and I only do 40s/50s fractals maybe to you guys thats low, but really the build performs well, I have just barely enough survivability to almost never go down while wearing full zerk most of the time, my single target damage is far from a liability, I crit all the time and have high crit damage, i’m missing a couple of damage modifiers yeah but i’m not going to pug in full out glass cannon mode, it’s a good pug build.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

You don’t need AH either, and yet here we are. Useful utility vs useless utility. You’re there on a guardian to provide utility and damage; and with your build you aren’t optimally doing either.

No, you’re right, I could just leave that last slot empty and not stress out about it too much, but it does help keep me up in some places, the alternatives just don’t appear to be so great, my utility is fine without whatever you think i’m missing imho, at least for fractals 40/50.

I’m not trying to be optimal, the reality is that i’m one of the many people who pug fractals and I can really use the toughness in a full zerk setup, to me it seems like if I was to bump up my damage much more i’d be a bit too squishy for 50’s fractals, i’m getting the most out of crit damage since im between 70-95% crit chance alot of the time.

My build works good for me, you can’t say full zerk full crit damage with rh strength and unscathed defender up most of the time is not excellent single target dps can you? Sure some zeal would bump it up a bit more but again, too squishy.

If I ran with a consistent group that was all on the same page and had a system, I would optimize my damage/group buffs more and duck out of valor probably.

Op id like to offer a piece of info and then a build. Piece: on a guardian, zerkers armor will do more damage than any other armor set, even if u pick tank traits with zerker and another armor with all dmg increasing traits. With that in mind, if u gotta run the same build you have now in order to live in zerkers armor, do it. As you get better though slowly migrate towards more damage oriented traits.

Build: I myself havent arrived to the lvl of play some of these awesome dps guys have, so ive been runnin a build between yours and theirs. I love the hammer and i assume u like it cuz i saw it in ur build. I run 0/30/30/10/0 Siggy cooldowns and grandmaster trait, vuln on blind, AH, toughness to allies, remove a condition every 10s, and larger symbols. I find vigor on crit, larger symbols, and remove a condition a must have in my hammer build. After that its just adding toughness for some mitigation, AH cuz its soo close, and the siggy stuff because it benefits my utils. Utils i run power, heal, dmg reduction siggys and the med that converts all conditions to boons (really hate conditions). In the end u get better dmg that the standard build like u run, you keep some dmg mitigation, you keep AH, and theres alot of condition removal (i run the sigil for removal on crit too as well as melandru runes).

Currently im trying taking 10 out of valor and putting in honor for longer symbols. Also the lower hp that comes with zerkers than say soldiers may take some getting used to i guess, but i dont find it a problem.

Perspective from a dungeon runner; typing from a phone, sorry for typos

Incomingray.8075:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

You don’t need AH either, and yet here we are. Useful utility vs useless utility. You’re there on a guardian to provide utility and damage; and with your build you aren’t optimally doing either.

No, you’re right, I could just leave that last slot empty and not stress out about it too much, but it does help keep me up in some places, the alternatives just don’t appear to be so great, my utility is fine without whatever you think i’m missing imho, at least for fractals 40/50.

I’m not trying to be optimal, the reality is that i’m one of the many people who pug fractals and I can really use the toughness in a full zerk setup, to me it seems like if I was to bump up my damage much more i’d be a bit too squishy for 50’s fractals, i’m getting the most out of crit damage since im between 70-95% crit chance alot of the time.

My build works good for me, you can’t say full zerk full crit damage with rh strength and unscathed defender up most of the time is not excellent single target dps can you? Sure some zeal would bump it up a bit more but again, too squishy.

If I ran with a consistent group that was all on the same page and had a system, I would optimize my damage/group buffs more and duck out of valor probably.

When you are able to keep up aegis there is absolutely no use for AH.
Anyway, all we’ve been saying is that your build has kitten dps. Basically because it has kitten dps. That is an undeniable fact you can’t argue against. Y
On a second note you build is just worse than a real dungeon build in all perspectives. Vigor alone is more survivability than a 5k/second heal. You deliver bad damage and give less support than any normal build. Theres just absolutely no reason to use such trash traits.

Anicetus.1253:

When you are able to keep up aegis there is absolutely no use for AH.
Anyway, all we’ve been saying is that your build has kitten dps. Basically because it has kitten dps. That is an undeniable fact you can’t argue against. Y
On a second note you build is just worse than a real dungeon build in all perspectives. Vigor alone is more survivability than a 5k/second heal. You deliver bad damage and give less support than any normal build. Theres just absolutely no reason to use such trash traits.

Alright so can you explain to me please, what build do you do for higher single target dps? I looked at your vids and saw I believe 10/25/0/10/25 and when I do tests my 0/30/30/0/10 seems to do not much less, yours more with boons mine crits more often.. can you explain to me where a build like that is so much more dps than mine? Or what build it is that beats mine by so much without making me extremely squishy? I’m not a hardcore PVE player and i’m having a hard time figuring this out.

Remember i’m just talking about 40/50 fractal pugging also… I need the toughness in alot of areas.

Also please understand vigor is not important to me anymore, I know the content, I dont need that many dodges, I use sigil of stamina with 2h on trash and I use +endurance food on lava boss thats it.

Also stop going on about altruistic healing and how useless it is, you know i’ve stayed away from that trait my whole life in WvW pretty much, i’m more in it for the extra toughness/crit damage and the fact that it helps me with being squishy when things go wrong in pugs, I can actually self heal quite a bit with the right utilities/weapon, I could leave the 30th slot in valor empty on a bunch of fights and it wouldn’t matter, yeah I could have 10 in zeal instead but it just isn’t that huge of a damage boost over 10% crit damage to not have AH when I do need it.

I don’t have an answer to any of this but just wanted to chime in regarding pugging level 40 through 50 fractals. I didn’t even know people would bring let alone pug those levels. I’m guessing you can’t be carried at that level and you have to know the content….

So I guess my question is, does it matter at those levels? Serious question because I stopped at 6!!!!!! I just can’t stomach PvE No disrespect, just not my thing which is why I’m asking.

‘Good’ damage is pretty relative. I don’t really get why I’m reading you can’t get ‘good’ damage with AH … there is still 40 points left to get at least 2 high Multipliers, power and high crits if I like for 1H weapons … let’s be objective here. The OP isn’t asking for the BEST DPS build. He’s asking for good DPS with AH. You can do it if you aren’t jaded by the highest full hit and crit Whirling Wrath numbers.

Scholar runes give their damage bonus only when you’re above 90% health.

Small, trickle heals help ensure that you stay above 90% health.

AH gives small, trickle heals.

Therefore, AH helps enhance your damage if you use Scholar runes.

Berner.7289:

Scholar runes give their damage bonus only when you’re above 90% health.

Small, trickle heals help ensure that you stay above 90% health.

AH gives small, trickle heals.

Therefore, AH helps enhance your damage if you use Scholar runes.

Just a run a 10/30/30/0/0 AH build. That will actually bring good damage. Of course you lost reductions to shouts and consecrations, which is a pretty big hit on our utility. But go for it. Have all kinds of fun.