Guild Wars 2

Karl McLain.5604:

Greetings all!
Now that the betas are over and we’ve been working through quite a bit of feedback, we now have the chance to give you the list of changes that will be available for the next beta.
…
Traps:
We’re continuing to work on trap usability, functionality and improve visual effects. There’s not a whole lot in this update, but we continue to appreciate your feedback on these abilities.

Traps (general): Reduced the cast time of all traps to 1/2 second, down from 1 second.

Purification: Fixed an issue that caused this ability to not function correctly with Runes of the Trapper.
…
Cheers,
-Karl

Any update on our traps-tech? The natives are getting restless (read restless as ‘going into gran mal seizures’).

Also is there an ETA on Trapper Runes being made available in sPvP since they have such an impact on the Dragonhunter’s utility choices?

(and any word on super-speed getting fixed?)

Nike.2631:

It interacts poorly with the my-god-touch-nothing meditation meta build. There’s lots of other things Guards do that have enough flex to them that you can shuffling things and have something interesting to work with. I’m not kidding when I say this constant “but it’s not exactly like medi-meta!” is going to get medi-meta nerfed.

Except people aren’t arguing that it’s just “not as good as medi”. They’re arguing that it’s just terrible in comparison to anything that is currently played at the competitive level.

It would be a different story if Guardians were dominating the meta. But Medi Guard is all but dead, and Bunker Guard is slowly being pushed out the door again by more self-sufficient classes that can function without the need for significant allied support. We’re not asking for the world. We’re just asking for something that can actually effectively work with the game we’ve been given.

Black Box.9312:

Except people aren’t arguing that it’s just “not as good as medi”. They’re arguing that it’s just terrible in comparison to anything that is currently played at the competitive level.

It would be a different story if Guardians were dominating the meta. But Medi Guard is all but dead, and Bunker Guard is slowly being pushed out the door again by more self-sufficient classes that can function without the need for significant allied support. We’re not asking for the world. We’re just asking for something that can actually effectively work with the game we’ve been given.

+16

Black Box.9312:

Nike.2631:

It interacts poorly with the my-god-touch-nothing meditation meta build. There’s lots of other things Guards do that have enough flex to them that you can shuffling things and have something interesting to work with. I’m not kidding when I say this constant “but it’s not exactly like medi-meta!” is going to get medi-meta nerfed.

Except people aren’t arguing that it’s just “not as good as medi”. They’re arguing that it’s just terrible in comparison to anything that is currently played at the competitive level.

It would be a different story if Guardians were dominating the meta. But Medi Guard is all but dead, and Bunker Guard is slowly being pushed out the door again by more self-sufficient classes that can function without the need for significant allied support. We’re not asking for the world. We’re just asking for something that can actually effectively work with the game we’ve been given.

+1k

The traps are more more or less crap. (only one people seem to like is fragments of faith)
The traits have very little cohesion with other guardian traits. (especially compared to what other classes got)
The bow is kinda meh. (its getting better but 5 is still a bit off)

Overall the spec feels like
1: It wasn’t thought out
or
2: The people designing it don’t play guardian much if at all and don’t even realize how it plays (The daredevil that Karl worked on feels awesome)
or
3: All of the above.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Black Box.9312:

Nike.2631:

It interacts poorly with the my-god-touch-nothing meditation meta build. There’s lots of other things Guards do that have enough flex to them that you can shuffling things and have something interesting to work with. I’m not kidding when I say this constant “but it’s not exactly like medi-meta!” is going to get medi-meta nerfed.

Except people aren’t arguing that it’s just “not as good as medi”. They’re arguing that it’s just terrible in comparison to anything that is currently played at the competitive level.

It would be a different story if Guardians were dominating the meta. But Medi Guard is all but dead, and Bunker Guard is slowly being pushed out the door again by more self-sufficient classes that can function without the need for significant allied support. We’re not asking for the world. We’re just asking for something that can actually effectively work with the game we’ve been given.

+1k

The traps are more more or less crap. (only one people seem to like is fragments of faith)
The traits have very little cohesion with other guardian traits. (especially compared to what other classes got)
The bow is kinda meh. (its getting better but 5 is still a bit off)

Overall the spec feels like
1: It wasn’t thought out
or
2: The people designing it don’t play guardian much if at all and don’t even realize how it plays (The daredevil that Karl worked on feels awesome)
or
3: All of the above.

karl is our dev, you can’t be dev to 3 classes. One class must suffer and that is “we are in a good spot” class (guardians)

Why can’t someone be the dev to 3 classes? I doubt any of us know what the workload is involved with that and also, we don’t know how those dev teams are structured and can’t assume he’s the ONLY one working on those 3 classes; I don’t think over-extension is the culprit here.

You actually did nail it though … how do you make an elite spec without being OP’ed on a class that’s already where is should be for balance? You’re seeing it. Vanilla is already quite good. The complaints here don’t factor in what the target concept is.

I’m only talking from a tPvP perspective here. 3 things I would like to see changed.

1. True shot should not root us in place, guardians have a hard time surviving with low mobility and its going to make that worse with 2 of the LB skills completely rooting us in place(true shot/hunter’s ward).

2. Hunter’s Ward needs a shorter cooldown, 45 seconds is way too much. The CC aspect of the skill is OP, but it roots you in place for a good 3ish seconds and its not that hard to avoid the CC by avoiding the aoe while it casts. I would like to see this at 40 seconds like ring of warding/line of warding.

3. I like the cooldown changes to Spear of justice and Wings of resolve. I would like to see 2 things happen to Shield of courage. First, reduce the cooldown from 75 seconds to 60 seconds. Secondly, make it instant cast(only courage, spear/wings keep their cast times). This is mainly because Shield of courage is the main stun break for medi/offensive pvp specs. If you get locked down and constantly CC’d you need to be able to pop f3 instantly to break stun,get stab and shelter/rf. Having a cast time on our stun break/stab makes it extremely hard to get out of Oh kitten situations. If you make Shield of Courage instant cast, it will make these DH virtues much better than the original ones.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

The traps are more more or less crap. (only one people seem to like is fragments of faith)
The traits have very little cohesion with other guardian traits. (especially compared to what other classes got)
The bow is kinda meh. (its getting better but 5 is still a bit off)

Overall the spec feels like
1: It wasn’t thought out
or
2: The people designing it don’t play guardian much if at all and don’t even realize how it plays (The daredevil that Karl worked on feels awesome)
or
3: All of the above.

See, I agree with all of that. But I also know things are still up in the air. Karl made a huge change to Tempest this week to make it more fun and thematic and I think that change is gonna give the Tempest a real unique identity compared to the core profession. I hope Dragonhuter can have a similar ‘a-ha!’ moment before HoT launches.

To me, the longbow is close. All shots need to fire behind you, the symbol needs to be a bit larger to facilitate buffing from the rear line, and #5 needs to cage the targets without multiple ticks of damage warning them what’s coming. That’s skill is pretty much the all-new all-different defining skill for how other players are going to think of the Dragonhunter’s bow, and it needs to fill them with fear. “Oh crap, its a Dragonhunter. I could get caged at any moment…”

The traits aren’t as close as the bow, but they’re close. Pure of Sight needs to get the hell out of the minor slot so Dragonhunter can support melee trappers builds without them getting a dead minor. Triggering a trap causing daze is cute, but that’s all it is: cute. If we’re getting one trap trait, it needs to be dramatic. Like longbow 5 changes – people need to not be laughing at the traps line, they need to fear it. You want people’s hackles going up when they realize they’ve probably just walked into a mine field and one wrong step will get them killed. It also wouldn’t hurt if Dragonhunters had access to a taunt so we could pull people into our traps.

And the traps themselves just aren’t there yet. A judicious sprinkling of cleanses on purification, a stunbeeak somewhere, anywhere in the line, and more light fields to give us a way to start and finish our own cleansing combos when running a ‘pure Dragonhunter’ will give the us some breathing room on an espec that’s still going to take planning, forethought, and some serious skill cap to fully utilize. And Dragon’s Maw needs something (I advocate it kills downed characters, but something). Something again that makes people flinch when they see what they’re up against. Something that puts that little shiver of fear into them. Work with us Karl , ’cause some of us really want to like the Dragonhunter.

I don’t think Traps should get condi cleanse or any supportive features. We already have access to plenty of that in our other skills, Traps are meant to be different, offer something different.

Whats the one thing Guardians lack? Conditions.

This quote taken from the Dragonhunter reveal post… “the new elite specialization gives them access to some conditions and functionality normally reserved for professions of a more physical nature.”

I think Traps should be our most superior damage skill option with lots of bleed, burning, cripple and other condis mixed in.

Traps need a major rework, similar to how Tempest Rebound just got a revamp, but i think it would be a mistake to offer us even more support on top of our already impressive supportive core skills

(i still think traps should be changed to marks, or symbols, or wells, or wards)

Obtena.7952:

Why can’t someone be the dev to 3 classes? I doubt any of us know what the workload is involved with that and also, we don’t know how those dev teams are structured and can’t assume he’s the ONLY one working on those 3 classes; I don’t think over-extension is the culprit here.

You actually did nail it though … how do you make an elite spec without being OP’ed on a class that’s already where is should be for balance? You’re seeing it. Vanilla is already quite good. The complaints here don’t factor in what the target concept is.

For example: because if you like 1 class mechanic like thieves and you have guardians too for balance you just can’t be objective enough about them. You just can’t be dev to 2 or 3 classes that counter each other. Karl don’t like guardians, he doesn’t know how to balance them properly. Elite spec traits are not synergetic to guardian traits at all. Its just big mess. While thieves are just opposite to us. Their elites are good and work well with old traits.

Just look at Shield changes…they decreased cd’s. And that’s not even balance. That’s like you are working all day on thieves and you forgot about guardians and just change some cd’s and say “hey it’s fine now”.
Traps are just bad.
Guardians need new virtue f4 like all new elites. F4 – passive – 25% movement speed active : chill and immobilize for 3 sec (25 sec cd)

Just look how they balance things on guardians…they decrease cd’s. Thats easiest job to do, like you don’t even want to bother going deep into it to understand what the real problem is.

I am just mad because they want to solve our problems just to decrease our cd’s. Its just unprofessional and easiest job to do while real problems still persist.

Karl McLain.5604:

Greetings all!
Now that the betas are over and we’ve been working through quite a bit of feedback, we now have the chance to give you the list of changes that will be available for the next beta.

Virtues:
This specialization will ask that you make a trade-off of instant-cast abilities in order to gain access to a more physical aspect of them. With that goal in mind, we want to ensure that the virtues are rewarding while, while still maintaining some risk about them. In this iteration we’ve shored up a bit of the risks. We’ve lowered recharges of both Justice and Resolve while specialized as a Dragonhunter, in addition to lowering the cast times and improving battle effectiveness.

Spear of Justice: Increased missile velocity by 100%. Reduced the casting speed from 3/4 second to 1/4 second. Updated skill facts when virtue traits are equipped. Fixed a bug that caused this trait to not trigger with Wrath of Justice. Reduced recharge from 25 to 20. This ability is now unblockable.

Wings of Resolve: This ability now removes Immobilize at the beginning. Cooldown has been reduced from 50 seconds to 30.

Shield of Courage: Reduced the cast to 0.25 seconds. The after-cast of this ability has been reduced by 200 ms. This ability now blocks all attacks from the front, while attacks from behind will strike the guardian.

Longbow:
As with the virtues, we want to continue to ensure that the longbow feels rewarding. A few of the missile velocities felt slow and not as deadly as they could be, so we’ve been making steps at increasing both velocity and lethality, while ensuring that there’s a bit of utility to go around.

Puncture Shot: Increased missile velocity by 66%

True Shot: Damage increased by 12.5%

Deflecting Shot: Reduced missile velocity by 25%. Reduced after-cast by 300
milliseconds. Increased base damage by 13%. Destroying a projectile with this ability increases the damage it deals by 100%. Increased the blocking radius by 33%. The attack radius of this ability has not been increased.

Symbol of Energy: Increased missile velocity by 60%. Increased symbol damage by 10%. The initial burning impact now inflicts two stacks of burning, up from one. This skill can now be fired behind you.

Traps:
We’re continuing to work on trap usability, functionality and improve visual effects. There’s not a whole lot in this update, but we continue to appreciate your feedback on these abilities.

Traps (general): Reduced the cast time of all traps to 1/2 second, down from 1 second.

Purification: Fixed an issue that caused this ability to not function correctly with Runes of the Trapper.

Traits:
We’ve updated the trait line a bit to be more in line with other profession trait lines.

Piercing Light: This trait has been reworked. While activating, traps will now daze enemies in the radius for 1 second. Trap recharges are reduced by 20%.

Hunter’s Determination: This trait has been reworked to apply aegis to the guardian and drop a Fragments of Faith trap at their location when controlled.

Hunter’s Fortification: This trait has been reworked to remove conditions when blocking attacks. In addition, receive less damage when you have no conditions on you.

Dulled Senses: This trait has been updated: Enemies you knock back are crippled. Enemies you cripple are also inflicted with vulnerability.

Zealot’s Aggression: This trait now allows Justice’s passive effect to cripple, in addition to dealing extra damage to crippled enemies.

Heavy Light: This trait has been updated: Longbow arrows knock back when enemies are within the range threshold. Gain stability when you knock an enemy back.

Cheers,
-Karl

Hi Karl,
I think its about time you admit traps are a boring mechanic, hated by the vast majority of the player base and its time to change them for something else
The fact that there are very minor changes this times around tells me you guys have NO IDEA what to do with traps.

Addition:

Shield of courage – Please reduce cooldown to 50 seconds. Its supposed to be a strong standalone ability even when not traited in virtues.

Puncture shot: Increase damage by 20% please. I really felt like i was attacking like a wet noodle during the last beta.

True shot – Rooting effect needs to go. Staff 4 for revs no longer roots cuz it was found “awkward”. How about we give our poor dragonchumps the same treatment?

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Instead of spear of justice doing the pull many people I know would prefer if they changed the longbow number 5.

Instead of a AOE with a long cast time and long CD that is very easy to avoid it should be similar to hammer number 3. (just faster and with a wider wave)

Basically it would be a targeted wave with a decent sized cone that cripples & teathers every target it hits (up to 5) then gains a flip over skill which pulls them all to your location & immobilizes them again.
The cool down could be say 25 seconds, the first cripple/tether would be say 5 seconds & the immobilize would be 3 seconds.

That would make the bow much more friendly with traps & be something quite useful (imagine the combo’s it could be used for)

Would require some tweaking, I like the idea of the cone hitting up to five targets and tethering them (not the actual F1 tether but a separate line that probably doesn’t do much except mark the target). Cripple/Tether on 5 seconds is good, 3 second immobilize on 5 targets is a bit too high for a weapon skill, 1 second at least maybe 2 seconds pending. The biggest draw behind the Longbow, much like my suggestion for Spear of Justice would be having the bow and traps interact together rather than being split.

However. Something to not about Dragonhunter is that the feedback concerning the spec should be catered strictly towards making that line useful, the balance of Guardian in general should be its own topic. That’s a whole other discussion.

Ragnarox.9601:

Obtena.7952:

Why can’t someone be the dev to 3 classes? I doubt any of us know what the workload is involved with that and also, we don’t know how those dev teams are structured and can’t assume he’s the ONLY one working on those 3 classes; I don’t think over-extension is the culprit here.

You actually did nail it though … how do you make an elite spec without being OP’ed on a class that’s already where is should be for balance? You’re seeing it. Vanilla is already quite good. The complaints here don’t factor in what the target concept is.

For example: because if you like 1 class mechanic like thieves and you have guardians too for balance you just can’t be objective enough about them.

That’s why there is peer review and teamsm which I’m certain Anet does.

How to fix Dragonhunter:

Put it on Warrior.

Replace with Berserker on Guardian.

/end

Sykper.6583:

However. Something to not about Dragonhunter is that the feedback concerning the spec should be catered strictly towards making that line useful, the balance of Guardian in general should be its own topic. That’s a whole other discussion.

The whole point that many people are making is that the Dragonhunter already feels like an entirely separate identity. It has very little synergy with the base class. So it really actually is kind of important that we talk about the balance of the class as a whole, because if some base Guardian things (like Spirit Weapons, for example) were fixed, then maybe it would be a little more desirable to play a backline ranged support build.

That’s the whole point for elite specs… they aren’t supposed to feel like you’re playing vanilla profession. To say it has little synergy with the base class is a good think if you think about it; the DH is already restrictive enough without excluding other traitlines because of ‘synergy’.

Black Box.9312:

Sykper.6583:

However. Something to not about Dragonhunter is that the feedback concerning the spec should be catered strictly towards making that line useful, the balance of Guardian in general should be its own topic. That’s a whole other discussion.

The whole point that many people are making is that the Dragonhunter already feels like an entirely separate identity. It has very little synergy with the base class. So it really actually is kind of important that we talk about the balance of the class as a whole, because if some base Guardian things (like Spirit Weapons, for example) were fixed, then maybe it would be a little more desirable to play a backline ranged support build.

To be honest I am a bit jealous given just how different your elite specialization is compared to some of the others which seem like just slight improvements or trade-offs. But I get your point in terms with how the base profession’s mechanics might not synergize well just because they are poor. Almost seems like Spirit Bow for instance would be something DH could use for instance in this regard.

Just don’t want the entire discussion to shift over to ‘Can we get Medi-Guard more viable’ and not talk about anything DH related.

Arnath.2319:

I don’t think Traps should get condi cleanse or any supportive features. We already have access to plenty of that in our other skills, Traps are meant to be different, offer something different.

Whats the one thing Guardians lack? Conditions.

This quote taken from the Dragonhunter reveal post… “the new elite specialization gives them access to some conditions and functionality normally reserved for professions of a more physical nature.”

I think Traps should be our most superior damage skill option with lots of bleed, burning, cripple and other condis mixed in.

Traps need a major rework, similar to how Tempest Rebound just got a revamp, but i think it would be a mistake to offer us even more support on top of our already impressive supportive core skills

(i still think traps should be changed to marks, or symbols, or wells, or wards)

I agree with the bleeding burning & cripple on some traps, but I do feel that a couple of them should be more supportive or at least have a mix of support and offense.

For instance.

Procession of Blades, it should bleed on each hit and cripple on activation.

Test of Faith, it should pulse damage & create a burning fire field within it’s radius.

Light’s Judgment, should do a bit more damage, bleed enemies (short duration) and apply protection with each pulse.

Dragon’s Maw, should effect up to 5 enemies and do a couple stacks of bleeding.

Purification, should just be a copy paste of healing spring with a light field instead of a water field.

I’m a little unclear on the lust for condi damage on traps. The ranger traps rely on condi damage and that’s part of the reason they’re held in such poor regard, while the last set of changes the DH traps got was straight up and substantial buffs to their direct damage. While longbow 4 does some burn, the other skills are all direct damage. Why not stick with a more power/precision based set of traps rather than splitting the stat focus?

Nike.2631:

I’m a little unclear on the lust for condi damage on traps. The ranger traps rely on condi damage and that’s part of the reason they’re held in such poor regard, while the last set of changes the DH traps got was straight up and substantial buffs to their direct damage. While longbow 4 does some burn, the other skills are all direct damage. Why not stick with a more power/precision based set of traps rather than splitting the stat focus?

Its not that people want them to rely completely on condition damage, they want them to have some condition damage.

That way they will be fine if you want to use pure power/prec/feroicity. But if you want to use rampager or carrion they will be fine too.

As for how many traps most of us think should have this, procession of blades, dragons maw and test of faith are the clear cut offensive ones which could stand to do this.
The others people would like some more support on

Nike.2631:

I’m a little unclear on the lust for condi damage on traps. The ranger traps rely on condi damage and that’s part of the reason they’re held in such poor regard, while the last set of changes the DH traps got was straight up and substantial buffs to their direct damage. While longbow 4 does some burn, the other skills are all direct damage. Why not stick with a more power/precision based set of traps rather than splitting the stat focus?

Actually, I love my Ranger’s traps (and they’re useful in PvP) precisely because they apply so many conditions, as well as creating useful combo fields. It does certainly look like they’re trying to go a more power-oriented route with the Dragonhunter, in order to make it feel a little more unique, and I’m mostly okay with that, but I don’t really see why we can’t do both.

As to the reason for people asking for it, I think there are a few reasons: First, cripple and bleeding access was promised as part of the elite spec, and neither was really properly delivered; cripple access is improving, but bleeding has been entirely removed, and it contributed a pretty significant amount of damage to the traps, as well as a useful cover condition. Second, Guardians feel like they apply a lot of burning, but it’s really almost entirely from passive Justice procs. It would be nice to have a couple other utilities that offered some condition damage, and that of perhaps a different variety. Finally, conditions and the fields that apply them are often a powerful means of offensive (and sometimes defensive) utility, which is something that the traps are currently very weak in but will require in order to be useful.

Again, though, I don’t see why we couldn’t or shouldn’t have both. A fairly easy solution which I will continue to advocate (with more synergy and general use than the old bleed-on-trap-hit trait) is to make “Justice’s passive also cripples” our GM Minor trait, and in it’s place in the Master Major slot put a trait that offers: “Inflict bleeding when you strike a crippled foe. Deal more damage to crippled foes.” Then the traps can remain largely power based, but condition builds of all weapon and utility varieties will have wide access to bleeding, should they desire it. Finally, some of the traps really could use a combo field, a finisher, and/or some other utility/damage effect to make them feel more fully-packed and worthwhile.

Sykper.6583:

Black Box.9312:

Sykper.6583:

However. Something to not about Dragonhunter is that the feedback concerning the spec should be catered strictly towards making that line useful, the balance of Guardian in general should be its own topic. That’s a whole other discussion.

The whole point that many people are making is that the Dragonhunter already feels like an entirely separate identity. It has very little synergy with the base class. So it really actually is kind of important that we talk about the balance of the class as a whole, because if some base Guardian things (like Spirit Weapons, for example) were fixed, then maybe it would be a little more desirable to play a backline ranged support build.

To be honest I am a bit jealous given just how different your elite specialization is compared to some of the others which seem like just slight improvements or trade-offs. But I get your point in terms with how the base profession’s mechanics might not synergize well just because they are poor. Almost seems like Spirit Bow for instance would be something DH could use for instance in this regard.

Just don’t want the entire discussion to shift over to ‘Can we get Medi-Guard more viable’ and not talk about anything DH related.

It’s not just that the base class mechanics are bad, it’s that the ones we are going to get being bad as well. Say what you will about the theme being a different flavor (it is, although I don’t like the theme either, but that’s a different argument entirely), it still just doesn’t do anything to improve on what we have, and vice versa. It’s just too different, and clashes not only with the theme of the base class but the mechanics as well. It really does seem like somebody just wanted to play Ranger with their heavy armor character, all while conveniently forgetting that the standalone Guardian plays nothing like a Ranger.

My take on Traps: I dont think Traps should be Fields or Finishers. Traps are hard to control as is because they are enemy triggered. You would need to run back into the Trap to drop a Field in the case where Traps are Finishers, or to use a Finisher there in the case the Trap is a Field just to combo. I dont find it convenient.

Traps do need more powerful effect though.

Traps Changes
Purification
Initial Heal and Trap Heal amounts swapped.
Initial Heal: 6,458
Trap Heal: 1,499
Heal yourself and imbue your light into a trap. Enemies that trigger this trap are damaged and lose a boon. The light returns to you for a second heal and you lose a condition.

Fragments of Faith
No change. Only satisfactory trap so far.

Test of Faith
Creates a barrier(Ring of Warding) when triggered.

Procession of Blades
Each hit bleeds enemies. This is the only Trap that the original trap trait worked well with. Make this effect baseline only into this Trap instead.

Light’s Judgement
Add Blind here on top of Revealed. Pulsing Blind, just like Thief’s Black Powder.

Dragon’s Maw
Inflict 5 stacks of Bleeding and Vulnerability when the Barrier ends.

Would be nice if Karl would actually respond. He has taken the time to interact with the two other professions he is managing (Ele/Tempest, and Thief/Daredevil). Yet the guard thread is left silent… As usual.

eleshazar.6902:

Would be nice if Karl would actually respond. He has taken the time to interact with the two other professions he is managing (Ele/Tempest, and Thief/Daredevil). Yet the guard thread is left silent… As usual.

Well I love Guardians and I know why he’s ignoring us, because if I was him I would also ignore thieves and especially eles saying “they are in a good spot”

eleshazar.6902:

Would be nice if Karl would actually respond. He has taken the time to interact with the two other professions he is managing (Ele/Tempest, and Thief/Daredevil). Yet the guard thread is left silent… As usual.

tink i mentioned this before, they held off dragonhunter changes from BWE2 until BWE3 so essentially wat u saw in BWE2 was already old DH stuff.

they said sumthing like “it was too late to submit all the changes in time for BWE2 but we’ll see them in BWE3”

in reality, they wanted to work on the other profs, ignore guards for a bit under the guise of “well u haven’t rally seen the latest DH, so just wait until after that before we talk DH again”

conspiracy theory frum me? sure. too far from the truth? nah

Trying to patch or fix a bad mechanic only creates a bad mechanic that does not work.

1) Make Traps Symbols this has been strongly suggested by the community.

2) Give the Symbols range like Necro Staff Mark skills, and Ranger traps used to be.

3) Get rid of bouncing Arrows on the Longbow, no reason to make the Longbow like a Thief Short-bow Trick Shot you are taking away a unique resource of the thief . I’m sure you can come up with something better than a Guardian version of Trick Shot.

As it stands right now the current staff wielding Necro can out DPS and Heal a Dragonhunter specialty class using Staff ( ranged piercing) Marks (ranged traps) and Wells (Ranged Symbols) with higher hit points and functionality.

Jaxom.7310:

eleshazar.6902:

Would be nice if Karl would actually respond. He has taken the time to interact with the two other professions he is managing (Ele/Tempest, and Thief/Daredevil). Yet the guard thread is left silent… As usual.

tink i mentioned this before, they held off dragonhunter changes from BWE2 until BWE3 so essentially wat u saw in BWE2 was already old DH stuff.

they said sumthing like “it was too late to submit all the changes in time for BWE2 but we’ll see them in BWE3”

in reality, they wanted to work on the other profs, ignore guards for a bit under the guise of “well u haven’t rally seen the latest DH, so just wait until after that before we talk DH again”

conspiracy theory frum me? sure. too far from the truth? nah

That being said the one thing we could provide feedback on last Beta and now is Traps. I understand Karl wanting us to wait and try the new changes regarding everything else, but Traps remain untouched.

Considering this is the last Beta weekend i hope Karl can push through a Trap revamp in time for testing, THIS is what he should be talking to us about now.

Either Karl is keeping quite because the devs have no idea what to do to fix Traps, or they are still working hard to change them and their not ready for us to test it yet.

I still want this question awenserd from Karl:

What role will the Dragon Hunter play in raids? Will they be a viable option?

Arnath.2319:

Jaxom.7310:

eleshazar.6902:

Would be nice if Karl would actually respond. He has taken the time to interact with the two other professions he is managing (Ele/Tempest, and Thief/Daredevil). Yet the guard thread is left silent… As usual.

tink i mentioned this before, they held off dragonhunter changes from BWE2 until BWE3 so essentially wat u saw in BWE2 was already old DH stuff.

they said sumthing like “it was too late to submit all the changes in time for BWE2 but we’ll see them in BWE3”

in reality, they wanted to work on the other profs, ignore guards for a bit under the guise of “well u haven’t rally seen the latest DH, so just wait until after that before we talk DH again”

conspiracy theory frum me? sure. too far from the truth? nah

That being said the one thing we could provide feedback on last Beta and now is Traps. I understand Karl wanting us to wait and try the new changes regarding everything else, but Traps remain untouched.

Considering this is the last Beta weekend i hope Karl can push through a Trap revamp in time for testing, THIS is what he should be talking to us about now.

Either Karl is keeping quite because the devs have no idea what to do to fix Traps, or they are still working hard to change them and their not ready for us to test it yet.

I still want this question awenserd from Karl:

What role will the Dragon Hunter play in raids? Will they be a viable option?

They will remain quiet, what we see now is what we get in expansion. Thats it, no more changes, enjoy DH as you like.

Yes traps still need a major overhaul.
And the other thing needing work is the lb autos track. Thieves already do that. Crippling only on 2 targets is generally useless. If only 1 target is struck should grant a boon to the guard, both effects for 2 or more targets.
Other than that allowing for directional backwards casting is the last remaining.
If those get fixed I will be in full support of playing a viable wvw dragon hunter.

Longbow #1 needs to auto turn you towards the target when not moving, similar to ranger. Currently thats not the case. So its really awkward when even PVE creatures strafe behind you and you simply stand there.

Now imagine in PVP…

Gwaihir.1745:

Yes traps still need a major overhaul.
And the other thing needing work is the lb autos track. Thieves already do that. Crippling only on 2 targets is generally useless. If only 1 target is struck should grant a boon to the guard, both effects for 2 or more targets.
Other than that allowing for directional backwards casting is the last remaining.
If those get fixed I will be in full support of playing a viable wvw dragon hunter.

I really would have preferred seeing the ‘magic’ archer getting an auto-attack more similar to the Elementalist Fire Staff’s than just copy pasting the Thief’s shortbow, personally.

Add: ‘supersonic hop’ aka F2 isn’t any sort of saving move as it now stands. You just kind of hop up and down, it really needs to become 900 range to become viable. Hopping 600 range to an ally in wvw or away from an enemy is laughable.

All I have to say, is that I’m glad the majority of you in this thread are not in charge of making any sort of decisions towards the directions classes go.

Ghotistyx.6942:

All I have to say, is that I’m glad the majority of you in this thread are not in charge of making any sort of decisions towards the directions classes go.

Let me guess: You think Guardians are in a good spot

Ghotistyx.6942:

All I have to say, is that I’m glad the majority of you in this thread are not in charge of making any sort of decisions towards the directions classes go.

All I have to say, is that I’m glad that you aren’t either.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

My take on Traps: I dont think Traps should be Fields or Finishers. Traps are hard to control as is because they are enemy triggered. You would need to run back into the Trap to drop a Field in the case where Traps are Finishers, or to use a Finisher there in the case the Trap is a Field just to combo. I dont find it convenient.

That’s really not likely to be entirely true. In the first place, the Longbow has projectile finishers, which are good from any range and would benefit quite a bit from a fire field — or even, in the case of supporting melee allies fighting enemies caught in the traps, a light field. In the second place, there’s always the obvious possibility of stacking traps (which is normally how traps are meant to be used, anyway), so that if, for instance, Test of Faith created a fire field and Procession of Blades was a whirl finisher, a condition or hybrid Dragonhunter could get quite a bit of extra damage from simply using them together. Likewise, if Light’s Judgement were a light field, it could be combined with Procession of Blades for some aoe condition cleansing, even on yourself — which is something (self-cleansing) with the Greatsword’s Whirling Wrath, if I understand things correctly. Alternatively, since consecrations are now all area-cast, it would be relatively easy to cast one of them on top of Procession of Blades, if it were a whirl finisher, and one could always then Judge’s Intervention or GS Leap in, fire off a Spear of Justice for the immobilize (from Radiance), and hit Whirling Wrath for a second whirl while still on top of the flames. Or the blast finisher on Hammer could be used to assault an enemy caught in Light’s Judgement (if it were a light field) to start the fight with a light aura. Or etc.

In short, a few fields and finishers on traps would be fantastic for this class, rather than awkward, and would open up quite a few interesting and useful combinations while making traps generally more powerful and interesting utilities (and more in line with, say, the Ranger’s traps, at least two of which are fields). They would easily find synergy with each other, with the projectile finishers on the LB, with area-cast consecrations, and with various melee weapon options — with no bonus running back and forth required.

Hey Karl, is there any chance we could see some more unique and/or flashy animations on the Longbow, and especially a more unique and interesting auto-attack? I love the functionality of some of the skills, but the re-use of Thief Shortbow auto-attack and Ranger Barrage animations/functionality is really just not giving me the powerful, threatening, impactful, “I-take-down-giant-dragons-with-this-thing” light magic archer/hunter feeling that I was really hoping for from the announcement.

Could you possibly re-visit some of these for some stylish new visuals/sounds? (And maybe functionality on LB1? Like an attack chain? Please?)

I just have to agree with most of the people here DH still isn’t where it should be and its really just kills this elite spec for me looking at how shotty our new wep is and skills/traits.

virtues I can deal with a short cast time, fine we need a bit of risk if these are suppose to be stronger versions or more selfish versions of our previous virtues courage i wish was still instant but meh im not going cry over spilled milk

the biggest problem with DH I have in the current rendition is “whats the point” we are now going into our third beta weekend and I’m not really feeling a change i play DH for a day hate it then go play reaper, rev, or chrono cause they are feeling polished i get on DH and just drop it going back to running medi guard

Honestly why can’t I throw my traps or hell here is an idea if i have a bow equipped i can shoot traps at a target location. Yeah this is a complete shot in the dark but I’m spit balling here something to make traps worth it. I don’t really see us getting a new skill type at all at this point, but I really do think they should be worth while just like a lot of others have been saying.

As for the bow what is this suppose to do it I wanna say dmg but 3 skill are all skill shots and one of them (hunter’s ward) has WAY to much back loaded dmg and for a weapon that should be making us more mobile why is it less mobile having 2 of the 5 skills on it rooting me for a good amount of their duration true shot just doesn’t need a root at all the skill doesn’t offer enough or really any reward for stopping to cast it there are so many other skills in this game that deal the same if not more dmg and are still mobile. deflecting shot okay ill admit I like what its doing now it gets a dmg boost after destroying a projectile what I don’t like is that is that this is still a skill shot not only to have to time it just right when a range atk is coming and aiming it at my target which they can just strafe to the side since this will just follow a straight line. This is more of a scenario with LB rangers as they RF and circle around the target lest that’s what pops into my head when I see this skill in pvp.

Finally traits just have no real synergy with the core traits it just feels like its all about getting people out of your face that are in your face or dropping traps which is fine if these are our new toys we need traits to supplement them however there should still be traits that go well with other weps or and a lot of people have said a passive movement speed trait. The trait line just feels like all we are suppose to use a bow and that’s it cause if we switch to another wep a lot of the traits just kind of become worthless since we don’t have that bow equipped.

SO there is my rant on this whole perspective of DH my experience is all over the place in general form pvp to pve to wvw either way my guardian is my first 80 since the game launched really wanted a bow on this class for ages so can’t say I’m nothing but disappointing in what DH is.

Karl McLain.5604:

Additions to the initial notes:

Puncture Shot: Increased damage by 10%.
True Shot: Increased damage by 25% (instead of the 12% increase we had indicated) note: The overall damage potential of the ability wasn’t quite up to where we wanted to test it at, so here we are!
Wings of Courage: Increased leap distance to 800, up from 600. note: This has been in discussion for a bit. Now’s a good time to check it out, being as there’s a lot of conversation on it here already.

-Karl

Hi Karl, numeric buffs are always welcome, but they don`t deal with the core of the problem

Please consider:

- Making traps ground targetable. Additional functionality for all traps, right now they are subpar.

- Remove rooting effect from trueshot, it really is an awkward skill to use in a game like GW2 where mobility is kind. Channel time is fine, but the root needs to go

- Reduce cooldown on F3. I know you are afraid of possible abuse in WvW but in turn its really underwhelming for solo and 5 man content

Karl McLain.5604:

This has been in discussion for a bit. Now’s a good time to check it out, being as there’s a lot of conversation on it here already.

-Karl

You know what else has been discussed heavily for the past two beta weekends? How garbage Traps are!

Karl McLain.5604:

Additions to the initial notes:

Puncture Shot: Increased damage by 10%.
True Shot: Increased damage by 25% (instead of the 12% increase we had indicated) note: The overall damage potential of the ability wasn’t quite up to where we wanted to test it at, so here we are!

Both changes are appreciated. Still hoping for some visual and sound FX love, but the bow is getting close.

• All longbow skills need to work on targets behind you (this was still an issue for puncture shot IIRC).
• Still hoping symbol is slightly larger to assist from long range. Melees tend to scramble around. Help us help them.
• Still would like to see #5 cage foes simultaneously with the second damage tick instead of the fourth. With that kind of cooldown it needs to be far less polite about announcing itself .

Wings of [Resolve]: Increased leap distance to 800, up from 600. note: This has been in discussion for a bit. Now’s a good time to check it out, being as there’s a lot of conversation on it here already.

-Karl

Well, at 800 we can’t call it a ‘chicken hop’ anymore, but please consider…

You gave use wings! Let us SOAR!!

…I’d like to see more range on this more than any other change you could make. More than the heal (we’re selfish, remember?). More than snare duration (um, not melee, thanks). Put the extra range on the trait if need be (1200 range instead of snare? SOLD). The ability to decisively reposition both in pursuit and for escape will do more for our effectiveness as ranged combatants than any other aspect of this ability. Tune this virtue specifically for the Dragonhunter and not just as a weird echo of the Paragon.

Karl McLain.5604:

Additions to the initial notes:

Puncture Shot: Increased damage by 10%.
True Shot: Increased damage by 25% (instead of the 12% increase we had indicated) note: The overall damage potential of the ability wasn’t quite up to where we wanted to test it at, so here we are!
Wings of Courage: Increased leap distance to 800, up from 600. note: This has been in discussion for a bit. Now’s a good time to check it out, being as there’s a lot of conversation on it here already.

-Karl

Isn’t it called wings of resolve?

Nike.2631:

• Still hoping symbol is slightly larger to assist from long range. Melees tend to scramble around. Help us help them.

To be honest, I think all Symbols need to become 240 radius as baseline, like the same love Necro Marks got with the June patch. Combat is far too paced now for these tiny 180 Symbols, even in sPvP and standing in circles the gamemode, people are still hugely mobile in combat and only stick around when it’s all over.

Something needs to compensate Writ of Persistence though, maybe make the boons 2s per pulse.

Ezrael.6859:

Nike.2631:

• Still hoping symbol is slightly larger to assist from long range. Melees tend to scramble around. Help us help them.

To be honest, I think all Symbols need to become 240 radius as baseline, like the same love Necro Marks got with the June patch. Combat is far too paced now for these tiny 180 Symbols, even in sPvP and standing in circles the gamemode, people are still hugely mobile in combat and only stick around when it’s all over.

Something needs to compensate Writ of Persistence though, maybe make the boons 2s per pulse.

Necro’s weren’t alone in getting that love.
Engineer bombs also now also cover a minimum of 240 range.

The fact that they encourage so much mobility in combat & give them that change but don’t touch symbols is kinda a slap in the face.

Karl McLain.5604:

Additions to the initial notes:

Puncture Shot: Increased damage by 10%.
True Shot: Increased damage by 25% (instead of the 12% increase we had indicated) note: The overall damage potential of the ability wasn’t quite up to where we wanted to test it at, so here we are!
Wings of Courage: Increased leap distance to 800, up from 600. note: This has been in discussion for a bit. Now’s a good time to check it out, being as there’s a lot of conversation on it here already.

-Karl

Given that it’s called wings of resolve & not wings of courage your continuing to feed allot of fire to the speculation that you & very few people on the guardian design team actually play a guardian.

Allot of us are saying/thinking this because so few of the dragonhunter skills/traits have cohesion with existing guardian skills/traits.
We are also thinking/saying this because its been 3 years and guardians still have a myriad of skills that range from being useless to extremely undertuned or just badly designed.
Examples include Spirit weapon health & functionality, several of the consecrations (hollowed ground and sanctuary) , the actives & passives on a few of the signets (courage, mercy & bane) and numerous traits.

As I was saying, traps are unchanged (and will stay same) and balancing DH with some little dmg increase.

Plus they don’t know skill name properly “wings of courage LoL” (and its a class dev). Make me wonder do they play guardian at all and do they know actually what this class is supposed to do.

We are officially scr3w3d :/

Hexalot.8194:

Nike.2631:

Isarii.2804:

It’s baffling. Between Longbow and having to kite people into traps, it makes absolutely no sense that Dragonhunter doesn’t have access to a 25% movement speed increase.

It’s less baffling when you keep in mind all the cripple the DH is doing.
x1 speed vs x.5 beats x1.25 speed vs. x1.

Sorry but that explanation doesn’t hold water. Necros have plenty of access to BOTH chill and cripple yet Anet still gives them access to running speed both as a trait and utility skill. Lack of improved running speed or reliable swiftness in general is the number one reason I retired my Guardian. I guess I just got tired of being tethered to travellers runes just to improve my quality of life.

“I can’t catch anyone, give me more speed!”

“You will not be faster, everyone else will be 50% slower.” – Anet

I think it’s both hilarious and absolutely genius.

Aside from the hilarious typo that fuels the fires of the endless Guardian victim complex, those changes seem to be pretty solid.

Any update on what is happening with traps? If I’m not mistaken, the post following the second BWE mentioned that we’ll see some changes that will be discussed soon. I am eager to hear if there are any changes planned.

On that subject – many of the suggestions here revolve around adding fields and finishers to the trap abilities. I’ll add my voice to that chorus.