Guild Wars 2

I like a lot of these changes, it definitely shows that you are considering the feedback.
some additional comments based on the upcoming changes.

Longbow

good changes, they addressed all of my personal issues except for 2 things.

first I think deflecting shot also needs to be fireable behind you. I found it very annoying trying to shoot at someone who wasn’t directly in front of me “sometimes they were just to my right:” and the ability would just not go off instead of my character turning where he needed to and then firing. I also have an additional utility idea but I’ll address that later.

the cd on hunter’s ward is too long currently. I’m fine with it being on the long side because of the great cc it offers but its really overkill right now. 30 sec cd please.

Virtues

Justice: This needs better utility. the other virtues have obvious utility effects with movement and a mobile barricade, but justice active effect still only opens up the target for conditions. It feels too much like the base justice except there’s a graphic effect and a range limitation. It needs to have a more solid impact in the world. A suggestion I am really fond of is changing it to a flip skill with a pull. with this change there’d always be incentive to use the active regardless of build, and it would synergize well with our other skills.

resolve: solid changes and I look forward to playing with it again, my only complaint is I’m not personally fond of ground target abilities, I would prefer the leap being a fixed distance similar to leap of faith.

courage: again solid changes, if I could complain about anything it’d be the fact that attacks it stops are not actually “blocked”, they’re absorbed so we don’t gain the benefit from all our on block traits. It’s irked me for a long time that for a profession where aegis, and blocks are suppose to be one of the defining qualities so many of our skills that say they block attacks actually don’t.

Traits

pure of sight: this should not be a trait, it should be baseline for the bow, or removed and replaced with something more useful. aside from the fact that its difficult to gain the bonus with attacks outside of bow, and maybe scepter so many of our other skills and utilities require us to get in close to be effective so its counter intuitive.

heavy light: initially I was fine with this trait but after messing around with it I agree with others that its too random and therefore hard to use reliably. I would really rather see the KB applied to a specific skill. like deflecting shot. perhaps if deflecting shot hits an enemy within the threshold it pushes them back, but as a result the projectile stops so you’ll miss out on blocking projectiles. I’d even be happy with the damage being severely reduced or removed if it meant we got a reliable knockback.

defenders dogma: My main gripe with this trait is related to how I feel about blocks or lack thereof in the guardian. with the blocks we have available now this trait isn’t that impressive. if the blocks from courage’s barrier, zealots defense were actually blocks then maybe I’d like it. and the payoff when you do block isn’t that great either unless you take zealots aggression and the other passive VoJ traits.

Traps

mechanics:
I’m mostly fine with traps, and don’t understand those saying they’re a garbage mechanic or should be made ground target skills. If you did that then they’d be pretty much the same as wells, consecrations, and symbols. I am not fond of any ground target skills for one. part of that is because of how I play, turning exclusively with the mouse so when I have to ground target something not only do I momentarily lose the ability to turn quickly, but I often have a hard time finding my mouse because its hidden most of the time.

my feedback to make traps easier to use would be to make there effects instantaneous or front end heavy. IE ensure that the main effect of each trap happens immediately upon activation with no delay. That way even if the enemy dodges upon seeing the trap go off the majority of the damage or conditions have already been applied. There would be no need to hope the enemy stands still in the trap, once they set it off we reap the rewards.

despite what a lot of trap complainers try to say, most enemies (players and npc’s) are going to try and run to your position to attack you so its not that hard to drop a trap and lead them onto it. and if you are fighting someone who is pure ranged and never approaches you well then being a guardian you’re perfectly capable of running or JI to them to drop a trap. or maybe don’t depend on traps for every fight. not every tool is perfect for every situation.

trap utility:
I haven’t thoroughly played with all the traps, but based on what I know

Lights judgement: I like this trap and have used it the most. it offers good burst potential and the fact that the bright lights cause a lot of players to scatter. Keeping in line with my overall trap suggestions perhaps changing it to apply 20 stacks of vuln on the first tick instead of 10 would be nice.

fragments of faith: solid looking trap, no criticism

test of faith: it should have an additional effect on enemies who are inside it that would entice them to leave the trap. if we had more reliable knockbacks and pulls like suggested above this might not be necessary.

procession of blades: needs to have more severe conditions on it, and/or longer duration. not fond of this trap.

purification: I can’t really comment on this trap since I’ve never used it. the idea of having to wait for an enemy to set it off to get the full effect just sounds horrible even if it does have a minor heal prior.

thats about it. anything I didn’t mention I’m currently happy with the direction its going and have no current feedback.

The change to piercing light is nice in some ways but bad in others.

Traps needed something to reduce their CD true, but the loss of access to bleeds hurts condition & celestial guardians allot.
The only thing that kept it from being good before the change was the fact that most traps don’t hit more then once.
If they had changed to to effect all hits with the sword & the bow as well as traps then it would have been awesome.

The daze is also nowhere near enough to keep enemies in traps.
It either needs to stun or immobilize enemies.

I’m happy about the longbow changes. More mobility from F2 is also nice, and trap changes are first step in the right direction. The rest I’d need the beta weekend to try out.

I’ll drop some trap suggestions since the dev seems to want some of that from us:
First off, I like traps as a mechanic/skill type. I like how arming time has ben added to them, and if you’d go the route of thrown traps ( I hope not) the arming time should go up to keep them from being grenades.

Condi removal: give 1 condi removed per pulse to purification and lights judgment. Thst should end up similar to medi guards condition removal.
Stun breaker:. Put one on laying down Fragments of faith. That’s the most defensive trap so it’d fit with its playstyle.

Damage: increase procession of blades damage to where it was with bleeds, which did like 2k damage iirc. Maybe add an inital pulse of damage (not cripple) to test of faith since the triggering enemy would only hit the blades ince, unlike the enemies that followed.

Other: I’d like longer duration on test of faith, to more often force ene ies across the blades and to cut off chokepoints even better.
On purification, I have a suggestion for reducing the risk: replace the heal on laying down the trap with a 10 second troll ungesnt style heal (but only at like 2-3x the current inital heals strength in total), but have that heal end prematurely if the trap is triggered. Currently " toe-bombing" (laying trap under the feet of the enemy) is the best way to use purification I found, my suggested change would favor pre-laying more and decrease the penaly in ranged vs ranged fights.

Obtena.7952:

These changes only confirm my suspicions; DH is a ranged spec and it’s intent is to enhance that kind of play. So many comments would not exist here if people could wrap their heads around that fact.

your suspicions are that an elite spec getting a longbow is a ranged spec?

your intellect fascinates me.

Darknicrofia.2604:

Obtena.7952:

These changes only confirm my suspicions; DH is a ranged spec and it’s intent is to enhance that kind of play. So many comments would not exist here if people could wrap their heads around that fact.

your suspicions are that an elite spec getting a longbow is a ranged spec?

your intellect fascinates me.

It should because many people haven’t even gotten that far.

But all kidding aside, it seems that it wasn’t clear to people this was intended with all the calls for various elements not aligned to that concept. There should be no question now with the proposed additional crippling effects, etc…

Those changes are really good but I don’t get the shortened duration of traps … I guess the 1 second placement was too much of a PVP tell?

Obtena.7952:

But all kidding aside, it seems that it wasn’t clear to people this was intended with all the calls for various elements not aligned to that concept. There should be no question now with the proposed additional crippling effects, etc…

The new cripple on Virtue of Justice’s passive is amazing.

Those changes are really good but I don’t get the shortened duration of traps … I guess the 1 second placement was too much of a PVP tell?

Don’t knock it. The precision with which some players can read casting emotes is terrifying. I’ll take any edge they’re willing to give me when it comes to slipping traps into play once the fight is underway. I fully expect the stealth from Runes of the Trapper to be used dropping 1 trap to mask dropping another trap nearby and then building some distance with the speed buff and 6 second of stealth.

Nike.2631:

Obtena.7952:

But all kidding aside, it seems that it wasn’t clear to people this was intended with all the calls for various elements not aligned to that concept. There should be no question now with the proposed additional crippling effects, etc…

The new cripple on Virtue of Justice’s passive is amazing.

Those changes are really good but I don’t get the shortened duration of traps … I guess the 1 second placement was too much of a PVP tell?

Don’t knock it. The precision with which some players can read casting emotes is terrifying. I’ll take any edge they’re willing to give me when it comes to slipping traps into play once the fight is underway. I fully expect the stealth from Runes of the Trapper to be used dropping 1 trap to mask dropping another trap nearby and then building some distance with the speed buff and 6 second of stealth.

Unless traps get some more utility and become allot more front end heavy I doubt many people will want to use em, especially at higher end where many other options are more viable.

As for the changes to justice, yes it is great and will even help melee guardians allot by providing a spammable cripple.

Nike.2631:

Isarii.2804:

It’s baffling. Between Longbow and having to kite people into traps, it makes absolutely no sense that Dragonhunter doesn’t have access to a 25% movement speed increase.

It’s less baffling when you keep in mind all the cripple the DH is doing.
x1 speed vs x.5 beats x1.25 speed vs. x1.

Sorry but that explanation doesn’t hold water. Necros have plenty of access to BOTH chill and cripple yet Anet still gives then access to running speed both as a trait and utility skill. Lack of improved running speed or reliable swiftness in general is the number one reason I retired my Guardian. I guess I just got tired of being tethered to travellers runes just to improve my quality of life.

draxynnic.3719:

All this trap hate…

The game is releasing in a month, a week, and a day. This is not enough time to replace the traps with something different even if they wanted to.

And as for wanting to: It’s fairly clear that dragonhunter is guardian/ranger, likely intended at least in part as something for people who like ranger gameplay but don’t want a pet. Guardian utilities already have many of the functionalities of non-pet-based ranger utilities, with traps being the ranger functionality that guardians don’t have, so that’s what the dragonhunter gets.

If you don’t like the traps, there’s nothing forcing you to use them. Guardian has plenty of other utilities to choose from even if you choose to go dragonhunter, and vanilla guardian is still an option.

I can understand that for many guardian players, it’s disappointing that the elite specialisation they get is essentially a secondary profession rather than a direct expansion of the core guardian playstyle, like chronomancer is an expansion of the mesmer playstyle. I was disappointed too, until I recognised that what we have is in fact a secondary profession.

Personally, I’d rather look forward to a future elite specialisation that is more to our tastes than to gripe about the one that’s been designed. If you really hate the idea of traps that you feel you’ll never ever use them, this may not be the specialisation for you… but other people will enjoy it. The next one may be what you’re waiting for.

They completely reworked the Tempest skill Rebound so they can do the same for Traps.

Traps in there current form are 100% completely unquestionably useless. Fact.

Obtena.7952:

These changes only confirm my suspicions; DH is a ranged spec and it’s intent is to enhance that kind of play. So many comments would not exist here if people could wrap their heads around that fact.

If only the devs would wrap their heads around that fact and give us a set of skills that are not melee focused.

Arnath.2319:

They completely reworked the Tempest skill Rebound so they can do the same for Traps.

Traps in there current form are 100% completely unquestionably useless. Fact.

Its statements like these that make me giddy to finally run DH after HoT goes live and imagine the screams of frustration when people blunder into my traps.

Hexalot.8194:

Sorry but that explanation doesn’t hold water. Necros have plenty of access to BOTH chill and cripple yet Anet still gives then access to running speed both as a trait and utility skill. Lack of improved running speed or reliable swiftness in general is the number one reason I retired my Guardian. I guess I just got tired of being tethered to travellers runes just to improve my quality of life.

And despite those tools Necromancers are complete garbage at disengaging. Probably something to do with us having much more useable teleports than Necros.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Much to your dismay, Revenant’s do need a weakness.

Every class needs a weakness. The lack of a 25% speed trait has always been one of those weaknesses for Guardian. Sorry it’s the straw that broke your back, but homogenizing the classes until the main difference is the color of their FX isn’t a desirable goal. Maybe you’ll see it on a Guard Espec at some point, but it’s not looking like this is that day.

Nike.2631:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Much to your dismay, Revenant’s do need a weakness.

Every class needs a weakness. The lack of a 25% speed trait has always been one of those weaknesses for Guardian. Sorry it’s the straw that broke your back, but homogenizing the classes until the main difference is the color of their FX isn’t a desirable goal. Maybe you’ll see it on a Guard Espec at some point, but it’s not looking like this is that day.

While I think most of us understand this, it’s not just an effectiveness thing, it’s a quality-of-life thing too, as it also affects out-of-combat performance and generally class enjoyability.

Granted the Revenant’s weakness is low amounts of condi-removal, and we need one too (mobility, in our case), but does the Revenant’s lacklustre condi-removal affect it outside of combat? No, not really, as unless you are in combat you won’t be receiving condis, at least not in any way that actually matters enough.

This is why the tying it to the Unscathed Contender trait is such a popular choice. Aegis has minimal up-time in combat, and as a result this trait is actually rather weak despite it’s sizable damage bonus. But the theme of it is perfect for a passive 25% movement speed bonus, as having +25% movement speed while under the affects of Aegis, would mean you’d benefit from actually being to get around open world content at an acceptable rate, just like any other class, without being forced to spec Shouts and Staff, or use Traveller Runes, but Guardian’s in-combat mobility, the classes obviously intended weakness, would remain garbage as Aegis tends to drop the second in goes up in combat anyway.

It helps that it’s a traitline that pretty much all Guardians use too (as it’s the only way to make Virtues relevant), similiar to how the Warrior’s version of it (25% movement speed while wielding a melee weapon) is in a line that all Warriors use too (as it’s how they get their weapon swap CD bonus).

KotCR.6024:

While I think most of us understand this, it’s not just an effectiveness thing, it’s a quality-of-life thing too, as it also affects out-of-combat performance and generally class enjoyability.

I realize people forget it’s there, but in WvW there’s no such thing as out of combat – you’re fighting or you’re MOVING to achieve objectives. One of the reason people want it so bad is because it’s very, very powerful.

And in sPvP, which is the main mode for balancing decisions, permanent out of combat speed is HUGE, because it lets you rotate and capture with much greater efficiency. It’s arguably more impact than any other ability in the game in the hands of an map-aware player.

This is why the tying it to the Unscathed Contender trait is such a popular choice. Aegis has minimal up-time in combat, and as a result this trait is actually rather weak despite it’s sizable damage bonus. But the theme of it is perfect for a passive 25% movement speed bonus, as having +25% movement speed while under the affects of Aegis, would mean you’d benefit from actually being to get around open world content at an acceptable rate, just like any other class, without being forced to spec Shouts and Staff, or use Traveller Runes, but Guardian’s in-combat mobility, the classes obviously intended weakness, would remain garbage as Aegis tends to drop the second in goes up in combat anyway.

It helps that it’s a traitline that pretty much all Guardians use too (as it’s the only way to make Virtues relevant), similiar to how the Warrior’s version of it (25% movement speed while wielding a melee weapon) is in a line that all Warriors use too (as it’s how they get their weapon swap CD bonus).

While that’s a slick implementation I can tell you two reasons Devs frown at it. Unscathed Contender is a good/strong trait already. You don’t have to tie a pork chop around its neck to get Balthazar’s hounds to play with it. Adding one of the most sought after buffs available would make it way overtuned. And second being in a line that get used constantly is a reason to NOT put the effect there.

I do think we’re see it in an Espec one day, and when we do we’re going to hear shouts that “the new spec is MANDATORY!!?!” because of the speed buff .

Nike.2631:

KotCR.6024:

While I think most of us understand this, it’s not just an effectiveness thing, it’s a quality-of-life thing too, as it also affects out-of-combat performance and generally class enjoyability.

I realize people forget it’s there, but in WvW there’s no such thing as out of combat – you’re fighting or you’re MOVING to achieve objectives. One of the reason people want it so bad is because it’s very, very powerful.

And in sPvP, which is the main mode for balancing decisions, permanent out of combat speed is HUGE, because it lets you rotate and capture with much greater efficiency. It’s arguably more impact than any other ability in the game in the hands of an map-aware player.

It would only affect roamer’s in WvW, who currently seem to be happy just abusing the imbalanced Mesmer at the moment with full buff stacks, expensive food, and stealth spam to make up for their serious lack of skill and poor-play (seriously, in WvW 90% of roamers I encounter are playing Mesmer, it says alot about how poorly overtuned that class is right now, but that’s another topic – ironically, they don’t have that passive 25% speed bonus yet though, which should speak about how Guardian’s having a 25% passive move-speed bonus OOC may impact balance less than you think).

But the majority of WvW fights in the zerg, and zerg always has 10 minutes of Swiftness (+33% speed, superior to the +25% offered in traits) all the time anyway from blasting Lightning Fields, Elementalist Staffs, Warrior and Ranger Warhorns, and Guardian Staffs, anyway, so the trait wouldn’t impact the game at all in this area – and it’s these guys that are usually the ones taking the Forts and the Keeps and the big objectives, not the roamers, the only people whom it would truly benefit.

As for sPvP, while I can understand your concerns there, and I might even agree with them somewhat, if it became an issue, there’s no reason they could literally just not have the Trait offer the 25% movement speed bonus in sPvP only, while it still offering it in other game modes. Other skills and traits have sPvP splits, no reason to not have one here at the cost of greatly inconveniencing Guardians over any other class in non-sPvP content.

Nike.2631

I do think we’re see it in an Espec one day, and when we do we’re going to hear shouts that “the new spec is MANDATORY!!?!” because of the speed buff .

Yes, I can see that happening too (though, it’s not true of course, taking the Mesmer example from earlier, again), but that’s all the more reason to put it on a core traitline, one that Guardians tend to take anyway, rather than limiting it to an elite spec.

KotCR.6024:

It would only affect roamer’s in WvW…

Um… ‘getting there’, especially ‘getting there faster’ affects every scoring activity in the mode. From running suppy to reinforcing a tower under assault to racing to catch up after being killed and your body overrun, speed is second only to sheer numbers in ruling the board and you definitely DON’T always move in groups that include a convient swiftness-spammer .

Make no mistake: I want it. I even want it for the Dragonhunter because any version of sustained 25% speed buff would turn the spec from “I’ll never…” to “OMG2OP, must have!! ((slaver/drool/foam at the mouth))” which might make people finally shut up about traps skills they clearly don’t know how to use — actually it would no doubt make them redouble their complaining that they finally got the Precious but woe is me it’s tied to traps…

But I don’t expect we’ll get it, so my effort is focused on refining the tools we do have .

Dragon Hunter skill line need more interaction with the bow.
->Bulwark -> Scrap shield of courage bonus and add it base line. Add Bow Specialist talent. Bow skills recharge 20% faster and auto attacks grant swiftness. All guardians weapons have the recharge talent and guardian is the only class without perma swift. This talent fix both.
->Dulled senses -> Knockbacks on dungeons sometimes causes troubles. Change it for knockDOWN.
->Big game hunter -> Change it for: Increase bow damage by 10% and bow skills cause vulnerability.
Also, i will like the whole trap concept go away… but i guess is too late for this. First, if i was hunting big dragons, use silly little traps on their feet seems like a waste. Also, we are ranged. We don’t want to go into melee to use our skills. Traps need to be ranged or changed for another thing. Like tricks ala Thief (know to hide or run vs a dragon seems like a good idea) or some kind of rally point (similar to necro wells).
The new elite skill need to go away. It affect 1 target, is a trap (so you need to go melee). Give us something ranged. Like, a super snipe shoot or we grow wings and levitate 5 secs above the ground making us invulnerable to melee hits.

Honestly I’d almost settle for a rune set including 25% movement speed that just doesn’t totally suck for DPS.

Umm so what exactly changed will dulled senses? Seems like the same skill on the wiki.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dulled_Senses
Did it change in BW1 or 2?

Traps:
Don’t make it throwable, that would make the name trap totally pointless.
Instead, there are some ways around it:
- Once activated, it does continous damage, not only once
- Make the effect stronger: Higher damage, shorter CD, better support

Or replace them with movement skills, because guardians are lacking these skills. Teleportation might be good, but it always needs a target. So if you want to get away from a zerk, you can’t, because you need a target in front of you.
It will also makes more sense, since Dragon hunters are supposed to be mobile characters, how else can they dodge a “dragon’s” charge ?

Nike.2631:

TRAPS

I am perfectly happy with the Dragonhunter getting traps as their additional utility skill-type, but the traps themselves still need a little more payout for the risks.

• Purification. As it’s name suggests it needs to address conditions. Add “Placing this trap removes 1 condition from the Dragonhunter. When this trap is triggered convert 1 condition on the Dragonhunter to a boon.”
• Fragments of Faith. Still the gem of the set.
• Light’s Judgment. It’s right there in the name… Add “Triggering the trap creates a light field.”
• Test of Faith. Add “Placing this trap is a stunbreak. Triggering the trap creates a light field.”
• Procession of Blades. Spin to win! Add “First and final damage pulse are whirl finishers.”
• Dragon’s Maw. Needs more cowbell! Add “Downed enemies in the attack radius are killed at the end of the duration.” (using tech seen in the Daredevil Elite)

Adding a cleanse convert to the healing trap, a stun break to what is arguably the weakest of the traps, and a little more indirect condition cleansing through light fields will go a long way towards making trap-heavy or even all traps builds have the survivability to actually use the traps line.

Was going to post the same thing until I saw this post. +1

Wow, thanks, Karl! I really appreciate your continuing work on this elite specialization, and I appreciate even more the obvious evidence that you’ve taken our feedback into consideration. I’ve still got a few things that I would really like to see happen to finish everything out nicely, but first, a couple highlights:

• Reduced cooldown on the Virtues is exactly what we needed; could we please get this on Shield of Courage, as well? As the E-Spec’s only really defensive skill, a 75 second wait in between casts really just feels too long. Alternatively, maybe find a way to tie a shortened recharge into the use of something else — like each pulse from SoJ’s tether reduce SoC’s recharge by a couple seconds, or something.

• Wings of Resolve removes immobilize at start — oh thank goodness. It desperately needed that.

• SoC now blocks melee attacks as well — Yes!! Thank you so much!!

• LB 4 gets more, instead of less, burning and is fireable behind the character — again, thank you so much for listening!!

• Lower cast on traps — once again, fantastic; we needed this desperately. The long cast times were killing us. And I do have a number of recommendations for these (but they might require another post).

• Traits — these are far improved over what we previously had, and for that I am very grateful. There are still some out-of-place and/or weak ones, though, and I feel like we’re missing one or two that we really ought to have to fully finish the class, as it was intended/as we’d like it to be.

So, Suggestions for Improvement:
In General, what these amount to, is the plea that most of our skills be given some more interesting and powerful mechanics, rather than just bigger damage/healing numbers and smaller cooldowns. Yeah, everyone loves big numbers, but honestly it seems to me that those can always and easily be changed, but the main things that make a class fun to play are: Interesting mechanics/synergy (skills that do something, other than just damage/heal), and frequent access to those mechanics (skills that don’t have prohibitively long cooldowns).

• Longbow — I would really like to see:

1. LB1 become a chain attack (to a single target, either with or without a small explosion radius or minor piercing) — even single shot --> Double Shot —> Triple Shot would be so much more interesting, useful, and thematically fitting than what we have.
2. LB2 is actually fine, so long as it does enough damage to compensate for its root and cast time. Although, there’s always the possibility of modifying its functionality to deal a little less outright damage but, for instance, drop a small fire field underneath each struck enemy, or a damaging symbol, or something of that nature, just for the bonus mechanical interest.
3. LB3 is where I would really love to see an update to make it the gloriously interesting, unique, and versatile skill it could be, and to really make use of its skill-shot functionality and intended diversity of purpose. I would really love for the projectile to move pretty quickly but leave behind a veil for a second or two that continues to block projectiles. This way, it could actually be fired at an opponent (and would effectively block their projectiles as intended), but it could also be much more effectively fired across the field of battle to protect an ally, or hinder a different enemy. It would also allow it to be useful even against strafing opponents, or while strafing, since one could fire it while moving to the opposite side of the veil. Bonus points for letting the veil be a static or light field.
4. LB4 is great. Thanks again for the increased burning and projectile speed.
5. LB5 is pretty great, too, although sometimes pretty difficult to land. Rather than improve that, I would actually love to see this have a flip skill that shadow-stepped/teleported the Guardian to the center of its AoE. That way, it could have an interesting dual function: Offense, if you caught opponents in it, or defensive kiting, if a powerful melee enemy outran it and reached you as you finished casting it. It also would offer an interesting choice between cancelling or finishing the ability even against an enemy that had already avoided it.

Virtues

Spear of Justice is still a little lackluster and pointless, honestly. Making it unblockable is an excellent and mechanically interesting choice, but right now, striking an opponent with it offers essentially nothing to either power or condition builds (compared to what you lose from the much stronger passive effect), and even traiting Big Game Hunter doesn’t really do enough to fix that. It would be nice if the burning its tether caused lasted longer, so that the damage over time could ramp up better the longer the tether held for, but it seems to me that the most thematically fitting and interesting way to fix this is to simply allow the spear to have a flip skill that pulls opponents, or, as an excellent alternative, let the spear taunt enemies it strikes. Even better (but probably too powerful), would be to implement both of these: taunt on impact, plus a flip skill that pulls. Or, since DH is a ranged spec, it could always function like “Point Blank Shot”, causing knockback on impact based on the target’s nearness (no KB past about 600 range, obviously) — and then flip over to a pull skill after a short CD (say, 5 seconds, to prevent too much chain control). This would fit the feeling of a huge, powerful spear impacting on an opponent and then tethering them to the Dragonhunter. Further, it would offer something unique, powerful, and interesting/useful on SoJ use for almost every style of play, and which would fit with both LB and Traps, as well as a great many other weapons. In this case, I am all for less damage and cooler/more powerful mechanics/control. It’s got a chain, after all; I would love to make some use of that for control. And the ability to push and pull enemies into traps or away from me would be awesome.

Wings of Resolve: It would really be perfect (and it seems fitting) if this could both remove immobilize and be a stun break at the start, while also evading during the animation. Lower the heal accordingly. I mean, sure, it’s great to have such a giant heal off of this, but I think that really we’d all much rather have some more utility and reliability on this skill (in a way that fits) than just a bigger heal. Could it maybe also be a Leap Finisher?

Shield of Courage I’m still hoping for a small AoE knockback on cast for this. Alternatively, causing the shield to proc a retaliatory attack on enemies whose attacks it blocks might also be interesting. Along with that AoE KB, it’d be great if activating it counted as a Blast Finisher. Finally, someone had written that the blocks from this shield actually register in-game as an “absorb” instead of a “block,” causing it to fail to proc any of our on-block traits (which seems to actually be an issue with a great number of our attack-stopping abilities). If this is the case, could you please devote whatever attention is necessary to fix this issue?

Traits
These have come a long way from what they first were, and I’m excited for most of the changes. There are a couple of really important things I would love to see happen, though, which are:

Zealot’s Aggression as the new GM Minor Trait, and Pure of Sight added to Heavy Light. In an elite specialization focused, among other things, on ranged/area control and announced as giving us access to cripple, it just seems a little silly that we would have to use a Major trait slot to actually have any sort of reliable cripple access. Also, as has been repeatedly discussed, Pure of Sight is just a weak and boring Minor trait. Could we please at least have the cripple on Justice passive portion of Zealot’s Aggression as the new GM Minor trait?

Then we could have a new Major trait, replacing Zealot’s Aggression in the Master tier, with this functionality: Inflict Bleeding when you strike a crippled foe. Deal more damage to crippled enemies. That way, our GM Minor will supply broad and reliable cripple access without being too powerful, and we will again have the promised access to bleeding that so many of us were looking forward to, rolled into a Master trait that is useful for both condition and power (as well as hybrid) builds.

Defender’s Dogma still seems entirely unfitting and out of place for the spec, as well as being really rather weak. Couldn’t we have something like, “Gain Swiftness when you activate a Virtue?” Or some other, more fitting functionality? Possibly, “Your Virtues recharge faster whenever you apply Cripple to an opponent?” Or… something else that fits?

Hunter’s Fortification, finally, really doesn’t need the damage reduction; so many attacks apply conditions so often that it’s very rarely going to be in effect, and, honestly, even if it were in effect all the time, a flat damage-reduction trait on an offensive e-spec seems sort of out of place. Could we please just move the condition cleanse portion of this to Bulwark, where it obviously fits and belongs, and replace it with some other, more fitting/powerful GM trait? Considering that the Daredevil — an elite spec focused on evades and having almost unlimited access to them — has a Master tier trait that removes a condition on evade (and considering the passive condition removal options other classes have — and even our own, on Pure of Voice), I really don’t think this would be overpowered. We really don’t have that much access to blocks, especially if we try to run a build without Focus. This trait is good, but it just feels far too weak and unfitting for the GM tier (and also Bulwark needs the help, anyway, since it’s far too weak and silly at the moment). In a Damage and Control focused E-Spec, we should be able to use our GM tier for one or both of those roles, not waste it on situational condition cleanse.

In place of Hunter’s Fortification (once the condi removal is rolled into Bulwark), I would really love to see a trap-focused GM trait — something like, “Gain swiftness and remove movement-impeding conditions when you place a trap. Gain quickness when a trap activates (1 sec. ICD).” This would match the play style of traps perfectly, and it would be a powerful option for trapper builds, allowing them the mobility and spike potential to make full use of their traps and unique play style, while still not giving them the powerful healing and support options of other utilities. However, if it’s impossible to implement a second trap-related trait, then something like the following would also be an interesting and powerful option: “Taunt nearby enemies and gain quickness when activating a Virtue.” Just imagine the possibilities, both defensive and offensive, with this! And, it would encourage the actual use of the Virtue Actives, something that currently is not really incentivised enough in the specialization.

Big Game Hunter: It’s true, this allows power builds to deal more damage to tethered enemies, but it’s really still a little bit weak (especially for condition builds or anyone relying on Zealot’s Aggression for cripple) for the trade-off. Also, we have a number of other ways to apply Vulnerability already — although this is also a powerful and fun option. Still, I think this trait could use a little work. I would love to see one or more of the following ideas implemented, and if the vulnerability on hit or something needs to be removed to balance it, then so be it.

1. BGH could also simply allow the user to retain Justice’s passive after activation. This is the simplest and most obviously powerful option.
2. BGH could cause the burning pulsed by the tether to double in either duration or frequency, allowing it to also be a powerful option for condition builds.
3. BGH could cause each (or every other) pulse from the tether to steal a boon from the affected target (and give it to the Guardian, obviously — in a shortened duration, or smaller-stacks form, if necessary). This, I think, is by far the most interesting option, and it fits the idea of a vengeful hunter taking down big game by weakening them with a powerful magic spear on a magic chain. Plus, it would let the DH offer Guardians something unique that they currently have no access to: A way of dealing with enemy resistance/stability/etc., thereby making it a worthwhile trait and empowering both SoJ’s active and even traps/etc. (since if you strip the enemy’s stability, Dragon’s Maw is that much more powerful).

One final note, if you’ve made it this far: Could we please see some updated/reworked more exciting/flashy/Guardian-like animations and visual FX for the Longbow? Right now most of the animations and projectiles just feel rather less than inspiring and don’t really fit the “Light-Magic-Hunter-of-Giant-Powerful-Foes” theme that we’re supposed to have going on.

That’s all I’ve got time for right now, but I’m really looking forward to this Elite Specialization and the direction it’s heading. Thanks again for your time and receptivity to feedback, Karl (and everyone else working on this)! God bless!

[Edited for a couple minor things.]

I know it’s not really the best idea to compare the elite specializations, but I still can’t shake the feeling that Traps are a little light on effects compared to what we’ve seen on the the others. I mean, comparing something like Test of Faith to just about any other elite’s utilities makes me feel bad.

If I felt like the traps had significant strength or effects already (like Fragments of Faith) to justify their simplicity, it would be a different story. Right now they’re just lacking.

Give Procession of Blades two whirl finishers and maybe even another small buff to damage and that would be great. This is a straightforward trap and I don’t think it needs frills, but some of the other maybe do.

We just need a reason to want to take Traps despite how difficult they can be to wield; something to balance out the risk vs. reward.

Minor traits of other Elite specs:
Herald
Improved Endurance Regeneration (while using class mechanic)
Improved Boon Duration (global bonus that works at all times)
Work with every Build, synergy with Runes that provide boons, stacks with Runes that provide Boon Duration.

Chronomancer
Improved recharge(Alacrity) (while using class mechanic)
Improved Movement Speed (global bonus that works at all times)
Reduced Movement-impairing conditions
Work with every build, stacks with Runes that reduce Condition Duration on you.

Reaper
Extra Chill on Fear (similar to an extra sigil)
Improved Chill Duration (equivalent to an extra sigil)
Reduced damage from Chilled foes
Work with every build, synergy with Sigils/Runes that cause Fear, stacks with Sigils/Runes that increase Chill Duration.

Berserker
Instant Adrenaline gain once (Not that great of a trait)
Improved Attack Speed (while using class mechanic)
Work with every build.

Tempest
Swiftness on Overload (while using class mechanic)
Protection on Overload (while using class mechanic)
Work with every build. Same action provides both boons.

Daredevil
Health gain on successful Dodge (while using class mechanic)
Endurance gain on Steal (while using class mechanic)
Work with every build. Synergy with Runes that provide Boons on Dodge.

Scrapper
Boon on Revive/Finish (while using class mechanic)
Improved Stun Duration on foes (equivalent to an extra sigil)
Reduced Stun Duration on you (equivalent to part of a Rune’s effect)
Work with every build. Stacks with said Sigil and Rune.

Dragonhunter
Defender’s Dogma
1. Does NOT work anymore the moment you press F1.
2. Has no effect if you were already at full stacks of Justice. (20% of the time)
3. Inflicts only 1 stack of Burning for only 1 second to only 1 foe on your next attack.

Pure of Sight
1. Among the damaging skills, does NOT work with over 60% of them because said skills can never reach beyond that range threshold in the first place.
2. Only works on at most 1 skill on each of our Melee weapons, said skill having 15-30s cooldown on said weapons, and whose damage value is only worth 1 auto-attack.
3. You still have to fulfill the range threshold requirement on the skills it even works with. (Which means it does not always work on skills it even affects)
There are more builds where this does NOT work than builds where this works.

If you still do not see why so many people here find Dragonhunter Minor traits lackluster(even useless) you must really not be Pure of Sight.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Minor traits of other Elite specs:
Herald
Improved Endurance Regeneration (while using class mechanic)
Improved Boon Duration (global bonus that works at all times)
Work with every Build, synergy with Runes that provide boons, stacks with Runes that provide Boon Duration.

Chronomancer
Improved recharge(Alacrity) (while using class mechanic)
Improved Movement Speed (global bonus that works at all times)
Reduced Movement-impairing conditions
Work with every build, stacks with Runes that reduce Condition Duration on you.

Reaper
Extra Chill on Fear (similar to an extra sigil)
Improved Chill Duration (equivalent to an extra sigil)
Reduced damage from Chilled foes
Work with every build, synergy with Sigils/Runes that cause Fear, stacks with Sigils/Runes that increase Chill Duration.

Berserker
Instant Adrenaline gain once (Not that great of a trait)
Improved Attack Speed (while using class mechanic)
Work with every build.

Tempest
Swiftness on Overload (while using class mechanic)
Protection on Overload (while using class mechanic)
Work with every build. Same action provides both boons.

Daredevil
Health gain on successful Dodge (while using class mechanic)
Endurance gain on Steal (while using class mechanic)
Work with every build. Synergy with Runes that provide Boons on Dodge.

Scrapper
Boon on Revive/Finish (while using class mechanic)
Improved Stun Duration on foes (equivalent to an extra sigil)
Reduced Stun Duration on you (equivalent to part of a Rune’s effect)
Work with every build. Stacks with said Sigil and Rune.

Dragonhunter
Defender’s Dogma
1. Does NOT work anymore the moment you press F1.
2. Has no effect if you were already at full stacks of Justice. (20% of the time)
3. Inflicts only 1 stack of Burning for only 1 second to only 1 foe on your next attack.

Pure of Sight
1. Among the damaging skills, does NOT work with over 60% of them because said skills can never reach beyond that range threshold in the first place.
2. Only works on at most 1 skill on each of our Melee weapons, said skill having 15-30s cooldown on said weapons, and whose damage value is only worth 1 auto-attack.
3. You still have to fulfill the range threshold requirement on the skills it even works with. (Which means it does not always work on skills it even affects)
There are more builds where this does NOT work than builds where this works.

If you still do not see why so many people here find Dragonhunter Minor traits lackluster(even useless) you must really not be Pure of Sight.

this was good. +1

some really good changes so far but there are still some things that need a bit of work.

Virtues:
I’d like to see a leap finisher aswell as a stun break (at the start of the cast) added to f2.
Following this up I hope you consider lowering the cooldown of f3, 75 seconds base is just to high (maybe put it on 60?). I’d also like to see this beeing made into a blast finisher.

Longbow:
Sounds pretty good so far, I really like the “new” Deflecting Shot and Symbol of Energy, only thing I’d like to see is a bit more “oomph” for True Shot (knockdown on the first target it hits, daze/stuns – something!)

Traps:
As others have suggested Purification really needs to either remove ~3 conditions or convert 2 conditions into boons, also make it triggerable by allies.
We need more utility on the traps, stunbreaks/stability and/or “defensive” conditions like weakness and chill.
Dragons Maw should be able to hit 5 targets.

Traits:
Good changes so far, but I really would appreciate for Bulwark beeing baseline.
We still could use a longbow cd reduction trait, but not flat -20%, be creative! Less cooldown for every enemy hit with True Shot (~2%?) less cooldown for activating a virtue (~5%?) surpise us.
Defenders Dogma is kinda anti synergy, maybe change this to still burn when f1 is on cooldown or just change it to “after blocking an attack, your next attack burns your target for 1 second”.
If bulwark would be made baseline we have space for a new trait, maybe some kind of movement enhancing trait which we are begging for for so long?
Example 1: For every active trap you gain 10% increased movementspeed (capped at 25%).
Example 2: For every virtue on cooldown you gain 10% increased movementspeed (capped at 25%).

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Minor traits of other Elite specs:
Herald
Improved Endurance Regeneration (while using class mechanic)
Improved Boon Duration (global bonus that works at all times)
Work with every Build, synergy with Runes that provide boons, stacks with Runes that provide Boon Duration.

Chronomancer
Improved recharge(Alacrity) (while using class mechanic)
Improved Movement Speed (global bonus that works at all times)
Reduced Movement-impairing conditions
Work with every build, stacks with Runes that reduce Condition Duration on you.

Reaper
Extra Chill on Fear (similar to an extra sigil)
Improved Chill Duration (equivalent to an extra sigil)
Reduced damage from Chilled foes
Work with every build, synergy with Sigils/Runes that cause Fear, stacks with Sigils/Runes that increase Chill Duration.

Berserker
Instant Adrenaline gain once (Not that great of a trait)
Improved Attack Speed (while using class mechanic)
Work with every build.

Tempest
Swiftness on Overload (while using class mechanic)
Protection on Overload (while using class mechanic)
Work with every build. Same action provides both boons.

Daredevil
Health gain on successful Dodge (while using class mechanic)
Endurance gain on Steal (while using class mechanic)
Work with every build. Synergy with Runes that provide Boons on Dodge.

Scrapper
Boon on Revive/Finish (while using class mechanic)
Improved Stun Duration on foes (equivalent to an extra sigil)
Reduced Stun Duration on you (equivalent to part of a Rune’s effect)
Work with every build. Stacks with said Sigil and Rune.

Dragonhunter
Defender’s Dogma
1. Does NOT work anymore the moment you press F1.
2. Has no effect if you were already at full stacks of Justice. (20% of the time)
3. Inflicts only 1 stack of Burning for only 1 second to only 1 foe on your next attack.

Pure of Sight
1. Among the damaging skills, does NOT work with over 60% of them because said skills can never reach beyond that range threshold in the first place.
2. Only works on at most 1 skill on each of our Melee weapons, said skill having 15-30s cooldown on said weapons, and whose damage value is only worth 1 auto-attack.
3. You still have to fulfill the range threshold requirement on the skills it even works with. (Which means it does not always work on skills it even affects)
There are more builds where this does NOT work than builds where this works.

Thank you, Turtle Dragon; that was clearly and concisely written, and the comparison makes the appropriate point.

Hence my repeated pleas to make the new Master and GM minor traits offer “Swiftness when you activate a Virtue” and “Justice’s passive effect also cripples,” respectively.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Minor traits of other Elite specs:
Herald
Improved Endurance Regeneration (while using class mechanic)
Improved Boon Duration (global bonus that works at all times)
Work with every Build, synergy with Runes that provide boons, stacks with Runes that provide Boon Duration.

Chronomancer
Improved recharge(Alacrity) (while using class mechanic)
Improved Movement Speed (global bonus that works at all times)
Reduced Movement-impairing conditions
Work with every build, stacks with Runes that reduce Condition Duration on you.

Reaper
Extra Chill on Fear (similar to an extra sigil)
Improved Chill Duration (equivalent to an extra sigil)
Reduced damage from Chilled foes
Work with every build, synergy with Sigils/Runes that cause Fear, stacks with Sigils/Runes that increase Chill Duration.

Berserker
Instant Adrenaline gain once (Not that great of a trait)
Improved Attack Speed (while using class mechanic)
Work with every build.

Tempest
Swiftness on Overload (while using class mechanic)
Protection on Overload (while using class mechanic)
Work with every build. Same action provides both boons.

Daredevil
Health gain on successful Dodge (while using class mechanic)
Endurance gain on Steal (while using class mechanic)
Work with every build. Synergy with Runes that provide Boons on Dodge.

Scrapper
Boon on Revive/Finish (while using class mechanic)
Improved Stun Duration on foes (equivalent to an extra sigil)
Reduced Stun Duration on you (equivalent to part of a Rune’s effect)
Work with every build. Stacks with said Sigil and Rune.

Dragonhunter
Defender’s Dogma
1. Does NOT work anymore the moment you press F1.
2. Has no effect if you were already at full stacks of Justice. (20% of the time)
3. Inflicts only 1 stack of Burning for only 1 second to only 1 foe on your next attack.

Pure of Sight
1. Among the damaging skills, does NOT work with over 60% of them because said skills can never reach beyond that range threshold in the first place.
2. Only works on at most 1 skill on each of our Melee weapons, said skill having 15-30s cooldown on said weapons, and whose damage value is only worth 1 auto-attack.
3. You still have to fulfill the range threshold requirement on the skills it even works with. (Which means it does not always work on skills it even affects)
There are more builds where this does NOT work than builds where this works.

If you still do not see why so many people here find Dragonhunter Minor traits lackluster(even useless) you must really not be Pure of Sight.

+1000000

They really should merge defenders dogma & pure of sight into other traits then create something that is actually useful & nice like other classes have.

Gwaihir.1745:

This is a beta testing for dragonhunter thread. Please keep non related spirit weapon shield fixed in their own topics.

viable spirit weapons would make dragonhunter very powerful in pvp/wvw. knock back from range with the thread of minions

Here’s my 2 cents

Minor Master
Defender’s Dogma:
Blocking an attack causes justice to reach its maximum charge.In addition each time you block an attack while justice is on cooldown, your cooldown will reduce by 1s (1S ICD)

Minor Grandmaster
Zealot’s Aggression: Moved to Minor Grandmaster, Same effects

Major Adept
Dulled Senses: Remove the vulnerability, add Pull, Knockdown, Launch to the list

Major Master
Pure of Sight: Moved to Major Master: Deal bonus damage to enemies beyond the range threshold (Damage Increase: 10%,Range Threshold: 300) and while you are casting True Shot you will gain 2 stack of stability

Major Grandmaster
Heavy Light: Deflecting Shot now can knockback enemies and you gain 2s of quickness when Deflecting Shot Knockback an enemies that are within the range threshold (Range Threshold: 300)

One of the thing that dh is really lacking right now is synergy with the traps in general (i dont know why we dont have a trap gm trait or a good master trait focused on traps) and other weapons.

On the other hand i would really like to see is more options to deal when you get engage while you are using the longbow, because let’s be honest we dont have many option to counter engage or disengage with the longbow (something that we can control when to use it and not RNG)

Add a trait to fire traps from the longbow up to 900 range. Double the activation time for a launched trap.
Guards already have consecrations and symbols to place on themselves or close, sticking a trap under me blocks me from placing a symbol since the enemy will then avoid that area and never trigger the trap. Do this and you will solve the lb traps synergy issues and the symbol traps synergy issues.

Noctis.3426:

Here’s my 2 cents

Major Master
Pure of Sight: Moved to Major Master: Deal bonus damage to enemies beyond the range threshold (Damage Increase: 10%,Range Threshold: 300) and while you are casting True Shot you will gain 2 stack of stability

Major Grandmaster
Heavy Light: Deflecting Shot now can knockback enemies and you gain 2s of quickness when Deflecting Shot Knockback an enemies that are within the range threshold (Range Threshold: 300)

I really like these ideas. The Pure of Sight makes enemies want to get closer to you which can trigger traps. Heavy Light gets rid of the random proc which is awful and gives straight knockback. This feels like what the skill should be.

A note on traps. I really feel that when they trigger they should also trigger some kind of combo field. Maybe not all of them, but at least a light and fire field need to be in there somewhere. Or is the lack of this supposed to be the selfishness of the spec? If we are selfish we need to more ways to only cleanse conditions from us and a heal that isn’t aoe. Too many things are at odds with DH.

An honest question. Why are we given a long range weapon (which I’m glad we’re getting) mixed with skills that require use to be close to the action to set and then run back when we are the slowest class in the game?

I’m sorry Karl, but DH will never make it to pvp with how it is now. In my honest opinion you would have to completely revamp DH to even make it a formidable spec compared to the ONLY viable spec, which is bunker guardian.

The traits do nothing in regards to the only viable spec and are laughable. Dragonmaw effects one target which is lol. The skills on LB are just not only offensive yet sluggish. It offers nothing that in a team fight or 1v1 that any other class can’t do better. Just no point in even having this class.

Remake the class and call it Palandin imo. I just don’t understand a lot of the design behind the class and is laughable compared to every other specialization.

If I wanted to go into details as to why its bad, I would have to type a 10 page essay and rather not do that and seem like every other forum poster. I wish more thought was put into DH like the other specs in regards to effectiveness and truly bringing a much more dynamic play with guardian. But it seems stationary and non-dynamic boring play seems to be the moral behind guardian.

One thing that comes to mind, as a trait when we have virtues on cd those around us gain their passive effects. Giving us an edge on buffs that have been stolen from us by other classes like rev.

As it stands, many elite specializations would be much, much better off if we weren’t forced into taking their trait line.

I agree with the objective, of course – each additional elite spec released shouldn’t be a flat addition to the class where players pick and choose the best from each -, but doing this by putting the entire choice into the trait line itself instead of its own UI element seems lazy.

The trait line for elite specializations should be a part of the elite specialization, just like the weapons or the utilities it provides. You can be a Dragonhunter without a bow, and you can be one without traps – why should you be forced into the trait line?

This inherently rules out a lot of interesting builds. I’d love to try a burn-based Dragonhunter, but the trait line is never going to replace Zeal, Radiance, or Virtues. I’d love to try a Bunker Dragonhunter using Valor, Honor, and Virtues with traps, but the idea of giving up any of those lines for the Dragonhunter one is basically laughable. A power based Dragonhunter using Zeal and Virtues is about the only time I can think of where the Dragonhunter line might hold its own, and even then – is it really better than Radiance?

I expect it’s far too late for this to be changed, but forcing the trait lines onto elite specs into making them simply another option absolutely destroys build versatility for these specializations, and this is probably the single largest reason so many people in every class are unhappy with what they’re getting.

The Scrapper gets Reveal on a 19 second cooldown as there F5, meanwhile Dragonhunters have to sacrifice a crucial skill slot for disgustingly bad Trap on a 45 second cooldown to gain access to reveal.

The Scrapper also gets a AOE bubble reflecting projectiles that is move-able as there F3 on a 24 second cooldown, while Wall of Reflection is on a 40 second cooldown and only reflects from one direction. Our Shield weapon bubble absorbs not reflects not move-able and its on a 24 second cooldown.

Whats the point in playing the Guardian or the Dragonhunter in HoT?

Every other profession can now do everything we can do but 10000% better.

What role does the Guardian/Dragonhunter play in raids? There is no reason to bring us anymore with all the overpowerd elite specs coming.

Arnath.2319:

The Scrapper gets Reveal on a 19 second cooldown as there F5, meanwhile Dragonhunters have to sacrifice a crucial skill slot for disgustingly bad Trap on a 45 second cooldown to gain access to reveal.

The Scrapper also gets a AOE bubble reflecting projectiles that is move-able as there F3 on a 24 second cooldown, while Wall of Reflection is on a 40 second cooldown and only reflects from one direction. Our Shield weapon bubble absorbs not reflects not move-able and its on a 24 second cooldown.

Whats the point in playing the Guardian or the Dragonhunter in HoT?

Every other profession can now do everything we can do but 10000% better.

What role does the Guardian/Dragonhunter play in raids? There is no reason to bring us anymore with all the overpowerd elite specs coming.

i agree with you 100%. no need for guard atm. since the beginning of the elite spec´s i´m thinking of switching my main profession… as much as i love the guard, there is no reason to play him anymore when you see all other professions do your stuff 10 times as good as you do..

InViictuZz.1705:

i agree with you 100%. no need for guard atm. since the beginning of the elite spec´s i´m thinking of switching my main profession… as much as i love the guard, there is no reason to play him anymore when you see all other professions do your stuff 10 times as good as you do..

Traitors will not be missed.

No, more seriously, if the new shiny calls to you, go play it. But don’t think for one second those singular abilities here and there somehow take away the gestalt effectiveness of the Guardian. Other professions finally getting a chair doesn’t mean Guardian will lose its seat at the table.

until the ranger rise from his ashes and take his place at the table. just kidding or am i

PD: i am going to leave some ideas to improve the LB1 and LB2

Puncture Shot: now PS will track down the target (which means that now it will work like a homing missile) and leave a mark on a successful attack, when the mark is complete (two successful AA) the next longbow skill will detonate it and will trigger different effects depending with which skill you detonate it

LB1: Cripple (Number of Targets: 3 Radius: 180 Duration: 1s)
LB2: Damage (something like gunflame, the main target is not going to be affected again by the damage, Number of Targets: 3 Radius: 180)
LB3: Blind (Number of Targets: 3 Radius: 180 Duration: 4s)
LB4: Burning (2 stack for 5s Number of Targets: 3 Radius: 180)
LB5: immobilize (Number of Targets: 3 Radius: 180 Duration: 1s)

True Shot: Reduce the skill damage by 25-30% and now the damage will bypass any negative multipliers/damage reduction

Nike.2631:

InViictuZz.1705:

i agree with you 100%. no need for guard atm. since the beginning of the elite spec´s i´m thinking of switching my main profession… as much as i love the guard, there is no reason to play him anymore when you see all other professions do your stuff 10 times as good as you do..

Traitors will not be missed.

No, more seriously, if the new shiny calls to you, go play it. But don’t think for one second those singular abilities here and there somehow take away the gestalt effectiveness of the Guardian. Other professions finally getting a chair doesn’t mean Guardian will lose its seat at the table.

I know there are fans of Dragonhunter, and there are aspects I don’t mind. I like the idea of getting longbow.

I think anet and others are missing the sentiment that is being shared. It isn’t that Guardian will really be replaced. We’ll always have a spot in dungeons and I think we’ll play a role in raids, but those roles will be traditional. Dragonhunter itself just doesn’t have as coherent a focus as the other specializations. It feels all over the place. It doesn’t mean it can’t be good, it just means it is more scattered and for a class that has always been in a “good place” being scattered takes us, in specialization form, from the top middle to closer to the bottom of classes that are effective (only speaking when we are specialized).

Guardian’s won’t die out, but I don’t see a ton of true Dragonhunters (meaning having a longbow and traps) running around all the time. I do see Guardians with some traditional builds and a long bow running around.

Point: Guardians will not die because at their core they are in a good place, but when Dragonhunter is looked at spec against others it is not in that happy place. It is well below it. This is not hate, this is an opinion that is being said rather loudly on the forums, but also in the game. Anet needs to make some more changes to the spec to give it a true purpose. A selfish back line support class with utilities that are more useful at the front of the line and requires us to give up offensive heals (mediations) and cleanses is not a good idea. The longbow I’m on board with except the random proc knockbacks.

I love the dammed if you do dammed if you don’t situation Anet is having to dance through — Dragonhunter is “all over the place” to some Guardian players because it’s not more of the same while other players favoring other professions are complaining Dragonhunter is basically the only Espec that genuinely brings something new to its core profession and why can’t their Espec offer a whole new playstyle like Guards are getting? The grass really is greener over the hill I guess.

I think you’ll be a ‘true Dragonhunter’ just fine running Longbow but not traps or traps without longbow. I’m planning a ‘zerg-leader’ build with longbow + consecrations, a longbow + spirit weapons build for open world, and a traps/pure melee. All of them will clearly be Dragonhunters.

I still stand by a mobility flip skill gained via a trait when a trap is placed. Would effectively allow you to kite with a longbow and lay traps, since you would no longer be on top of the trap rather 500 or so range away true shorting the sucker that just stepped into your trap. See my other post for my idea on this more fully.

“Add a trait allowing for Spear of Justice’s Tether, when it fades to pull the tethered enemy to the Guardian.”

Something I suggested in a different thread, but prospectively I think it can help bring synergy towards the range of LB and DH Virtues and Traps.

Further reflection I had considered the possibility of this being an added effect to Big Game Hunter.

Another thought I had was Wings of Resolve not breaking channels, so you can use it with True Shot or any skill with a cast-time on Dragonhunter to keep the mobility going. A well placed True Shot coupled with Wings of Resolve could theoretically fire over a Wall of Reflection for instance.

Instead of spear of justice doing the pull many people I know would prefer if they changed the longbow number 5.

Instead of a AOE with a long cast time and long CD that is very easy to avoid it should be similar to hammer number 3. (just faster and with a wider wave)

Basically it would be a targeted wave with a decent sized cone that cripples & teathers every target it hits (up to 5) then gains a flip over skill which pulls them all to your location & immobilizes them again.
The cool down could be say 25 seconds, the first cripple/tether would be say 5 seconds & the immobilize would be 3 seconds.

That would make the bow much more friendly with traps & be something quite useful (imagine the combo’s it could be used for)

Isarii.2804:

As it stands, many elite specializations would be much, much better off if we weren’t forced into taking their trait line.

I agree with the objective, of course – each additional elite spec released shouldn’t be a flat addition to the class where players pick and choose the best from each -, but doing this by putting the entire choice into the trait line itself instead of its own UI element seems lazy.

The trait line for elite specializations should be a part of the elite specialization, just like the weapons or the utilities it provides. You can be a Dragonhunter without a bow, and you can be one without traps – why should you be forced into the trait line?

This inherently rules out a lot of interesting builds. I’d love to try a burn-based Dragonhunter, but the trait line is never going to replace Zeal, Radiance, or Virtues. I’d love to try a Bunker Dragonhunter using Valor, Honor, and Virtues with traps, but the idea of giving up any of those lines for the Dragonhunter one is basically laughable. A power based Dragonhunter using Zeal and Virtues is about the only time I can think of where the Dragonhunter line might hold its own, and even then – is it really better than Radiance?

I expect it’s far too late for this to be changed, but forcing the trait lines onto elite specs into making them simply another option absolutely destroys build versatility for these specializations, and this is probably the single largest reason so many people in every class are unhappy with what they’re getting.

I’m not sure why this hasn’t been more of the focus of elite spec angst, because its the one common theme underlying a lot of the issues people have been having. Shoehorning the elite specializations into our existing trait system has created a ton of headaches. It seems like this was a system that was intended to be independent, but for whatever reason got crammed into our trait lines and it just doesn’t fit. It removes a lot of flexibility and seriously limits what you can do with the elite spec.

Plus its forcing players to trade base functionality of their class for the elite. Unless the elite does more than the base trait line people will generally ignore it. I don’t think elites were meant to be played this way, rather, we should have gotten something we could have added to our existing class to change it in a certain way if we wanted the option of changing or specializing our play style.

Can we please have more people shrieking “I can’t possible move off my 3 trait lines of choice to substitute in anything” a few more times in case the Devs were unclear exactly where to drop the nerf-bat? If a single step in every direction is downhill, you’re sitting on a high spot that’s gonna get hammered down…

The biggest source of the angst isn’t that Especs require choices, its that they named them “elite” which makes people immediately think they’re supposed to be an upgrade.

The reason why you are seeing things that way is because Dragonhunter traitline is trash. It’s really that simple.

You can check on Mesmer, Engineer, Reaper and even Daredevil, they will not even think twice about(and be more than happy to) throwing away one of their core traitline for their new Espec because what is being offered is so much better. You will not even see that kind of complaint(traitline should not be tied to Espec) from them because this is not a problem that concerns them.

If Dragonhunter had Minor traits that said
+25% Movement speed, (like Chronomancer)
or Alacrity when using a Virtue, (like Chronomancer)
or +20% Burning Duration and -10% damage from Burning foes, (like Reaper)
or Apply Cripple when you CC, (like Reaper)
or Swiftness on Virtue, (like Tempest)
I assure you, people wouldnt even bat an eye on throwing out Radiance, Valor or even Virtues to take it.
But instead, we end up with Dont-Press-F1 Dogma and No-Melee-Weapon of Sight.
And apparently, giving us Zealot’s Aggression as Minor trait would be considered too OP. Every 5th attack, provided you did not use F1, causing 1s of Crippled on 1 foe is so OP compared to a flat out increase in Movement Speed, Condition Duration or Stun Duration like other professions, right?

Soon you will see “Oh-This-is-Superspeed-Weeee!” Scrapper opponents running away from you in PvP, you wont even be able to catch up to them, and your arrows are already saying “Out of Range”.
Then the Scrapper on your team will say
“I just ran all the way to cap Far, why arent you capping Home yet?”
Then you will reply
“But I’m still running towards Home…”

Nike.2631:

I love the dammed if you do dammed if you don’t situation Anet is having to dance through — Dragonhunter is “all over the place” to some Guardian players because it’s not more of the same while other players favoring other professions are complaining Dragonhunter is basically the only Espec that genuinely brings something new to its core profession and why can’t their Espec offer a whole new playstyle like Guards are getting? The grass really is greener over the hill I guess.

From the complaints lately, it isn’t just a grass is greener. Its more like the grass is greener and its coming to get you because the dev gods never loved you. With the release of the Scrapper you’d swear the world is coming to an end.

The complaints are so myopic, envious, emotionally charged, and flat out incorrect that it is baffling. At what point did the median age of the forums become prepubescent? I consider myself a smart person, but darn it other people aren’t supposed to be this dumb.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Nike.2631:

I love the dammed if you do dammed if you don’t situation Anet is having to dance through — Dragonhunter is “all over the place” to some Guardian players because it’s not more of the same while other players favoring other professions are complaining Dragonhunter is basically the only Espec that genuinely brings something new to its core profession and why can’t their Espec offer a whole new playstyle like Guards are getting? The grass really is greener over the hill I guess.

From the complaints lately, it isn’t just a grass is greener. Its more like the grass is greener and its coming to get you because the dev gods never loved you. With the release of the Scrapper you’d swear the world is coming to an end.

The complaints are so myopic, envious, emotionally charged, and flat out incorrect that it is baffling. At what point did the median age of the forums become prepubescent? I consider myself a smart person, but darn it other people aren’t supposed to be this dumb.

Really though you have to admit that if you look at the skills/traits the DH brings & how it interacts with core guardian stuff it ranges from uninspired to just plain bad compared to many(or most) of the other classes and their elite specs.

Even the thief got much better stuff with the daredevil & they have the same designer.

That tells allot of us that they either don’t play the guardian all that much or simply did not put nearly as much thought into it as was done for other classes.

It interacts poorly with the my-god-touch-nothing meditation meta build. There’s lots of other things Guards do that have enough flex to them that you can shuffling things and have something interesting to work with. I’m not kidding when I say this constant “but it’s not exactly like medi-meta!” is going to get medi-meta nerfed.