Guild Wars 2

Have an idea i want some feed back in.

Our signature abilities are Consecrations in my opinion. Other glasses have Signets, Shouts, and other utilities similar to how our Meditations function.

Most professions have they’re… specialization if you will. Thieves have stealth, Mesmers confuse and are hard to focus on, Necro drain life and cause conditions, Warriors are all fight, Engi have a variety of tools., etc etc etc. All of these make tactical sense except for the guardian.

I made a point in another thread that skills like Sanctuary, Shield of Absorption, Line of Warding, and Wall of Reflection actually served to get you killed more often then provide an opportunity to change the course of battle. Reasons being that its flashy and causes alot of focus on you, its a very short duration and a very long cool down, and worst of all… To use these moves you are forced to become immobile or limit your range of movement to fully take advantage of the skill.

Sometimes it helps, bad players throwing them selves into Interrupts and/or if you have a well coordinated team to back you up as your preforming these skills. Or they shoot against the walls we put up, but not only are they short but they’re easy to see, and dont usually kill themselves as often as they did. Players are getting smarter, especially since this time into the game alot of players have experienced other professions and can see into their moves.

This is a “i want a buff thread”. But before every either goes “HELL YEAH, WE SUCK WE NEED BUFF” or “U WANT US OP? WE ALREADY GOOD”

Know that i dont want a dmg buff. I dont want a ranged weapon.

I want consecrations changed to have more tactical effectiveness to go along with our classes description of being masters of tactics and of supporting allies.

I’d like to propose some changes to the Consecrations.

Sanctuary

Right now it heals you, has a ranged of 120, is on a 2min CD, and is planted on the ground. And well Its a bubble.

I’d like Anet to toss out the healing that comes with it, increase the ranged to 130 (so you cant attack out of it). I bet people are raging right now…

Now i know im going to get soo many “LOL PALLY BUBBLE” when i say this but…

Sanctuary should be centered on you and allow you to move. It should function like a force field. Allowing you to stop attacking for a duration of time but be immune to dmg and push people out of your way. Imagine your running around with a bubble around you and you can walk up to players and push them back as you get closer. Imagine puncturing zergs, shielding allies as you ran from a group (allies could hop inside and attack outside but not you maybe?), Just about to puncture through the gate, sanctuary bubble and protect the main zerg as they push through the broken gate into either the Guild Claimer or the next gate/waves of enemy defenders. It makes more tactical sense and effectiveness. Allow for more strategy and zerg fighting methods. (oh and i’d increase duration/reduce CD but thats just me, too long right now to be good, being able to be effective once every 2min is kinda boring)

You shouldnt heal from it(maybe traited?) and you shouldnt attack. Most experience guardians by now have realized that guardians isnt about dmg as much as Support Dmg or Sustained Dmg. Thats fine. But i want to emphasize the “Tank” feeling around the guardian.

Wall of Reflection

Similar to the change to sanctuary. Make it usable on the move. Your allies are being bombarded by arrow carts or a bunch of ranged players, pop Wall of reflection and instead of just standing they’re casting it, making things worse on yourself when trying to run away, make it like a “Cone Force Field” it protects at a certain angle around what your character is Facing in front of him. Think of a sanctuary cut in half down the middle that move around in a circle around your character depending on the direction your facing.

Line of Warding

Not too bad of a skill already, the cast time is eh but thats not the end of the world. Personally i think this next suggestion is more for the “Fun Factor” behind guardian but… Make it a like in front of you that you have “wave” back and forth in a “fan-like” fashion to “Swat away” players. No dmg, just interrupts. You channel a straight line in front of you and wave it back and forth causing people to be pushed. Line of Warding could be really cool like that i think, more fun, more usable in the “retreating situation”, and enjoyable.

(Continued Next Post….)

What im trying to suggest to Anet is that i understand if we did too much dmg or were too tanky/healy at a range it could be majorly OP. But they’re nerfing buffs and all our other skills and our signatures still get little love unless from those Pure Support Heal Guards that get no badges and watch all their friends have fun.

The Guardian right now has no specialization really, other professions can tank, dps, and heal better. And even still other professions have moves that reflect projectiles and can protect/support players better then our own consecrations can sometimes.

The Guardian should be styled around (and bear with me) The Jedi from Star Wars.

We should be pushing and pulling alot. Its not about dmg for us, its about tactical control. Consecrations leaving you immobile on the battlefield or limiting your movement range puts the control in the enemies hands and gets you kill.

Not only that but it makes us unique as a class. To give us what seems like alot of healing/boons is kinda a joke (and i mean that with respect) but every class heals and does boons so when you give em to other people it takes away from our own uniqueness.

TL;DR – Guardians should be more like Jedi. Masters of Interruption and Control. Pushing and Pulling. Defensive CC’s. Not Dmg or Healing/Boons. And we dont need a ranged weapon. We need Unique Skills that going in suit with our description of being a Tactical Class

always appreciate the feed back, thanks guys.

- Tzenjin

i kinda agree for a action mmo, concecrations compared with abilities of other classes take to much time even when traited, about mobility theres a trait that allows yout to choose were you want your concecration skill “ground targeted”, after that you need to wait for 96seconds or 120seconds if not traited.

and yes.. theres something lacking on guardian, i belive most use shouts and not concecrations.

Aeolus.3615:

i kinda agree for a action mmo, concecrations compared with abilities of other classes take to much time even when traited, about mobility theres a trait that allows yout to choose were you want your concecration skill “ground targeted”, after that you need to wait for 96seconds or 120seconds if not traited.

Being castable at a chosen location isnt really solving that problem. You’ll either make the mad dash to it or try and protect a siege weapon but casting it farther away from yourself with only like a 7sec duration (from trait) isnt helping the major problem that ur stuck in a shell with players just waiting for it to come down and attack you. (Unless you teleport out, Merciful Intervention is the only moved coupled with Sanctuary that i find “makes sense”… Bubble up, protect yourself, port out. but that takes 2 utilties just to make work. Too much prep/risk for failure not to mention the long CD you’ll encounter if it messes up)

Its more the fact that the defensive factor around sanctuary making you immobile doesn’t make sense nor does it actually serve to “protect you” or offer you an advantage in the battle besides time.

I personally think Guardian can be really good healer for pvp wvw if u spec to it.

Punny.9210:

I personally think Guardian can be really good healer for pvp wvw if u spec to it.

Ever seen a Engi stacked for toughness/healing power with a pistol/shield…

Medpacks for 2.5k that they can throw a total of 9 out, thats the tip of the iceberg. not to mention their ranged and at a lot more of an advantage staying up in a battle to be able to produce the heals. Faster CDs too.

have u tried the healing from spirit weapon
i dont have healing gears so i cant give u what numbers would be but this’s how i play if i wanna heal

i use Bow of truth with command and and 3# staff with symbol healing.
bow of truth really give awesome aoe heals.

http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.3.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.55.58.59.0.0.0.0.0.156.160.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.198.202.205.215.0.0.20.0.0.30.10

Never got into Spirit Weapons, used the sword and hammer a bit but didnt like them

They attacked twice as slow, often missed against a moving target, and sometimes bug out (more the spirit shield command).

If were talking about AoE Heals…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Super_Elixir

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Turret (dont forget the command abilities it has to heal)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Med_Kit (3 every ability use. 3 abilites to use. 12 sec CDs. Heals over 2.5k. Total Healing Potential… 2.5k x3 = 7.5k x 3 = 22.5k healing every 12 secs if you were to use them in Burst)

u should try before u compare lol

what i like about it those symbol heal and spirit weapon heal are not " Regen buff ". u gain heal from both directly.

I have. A full Toughness/Vit Engi can heal through most anything and provide alot more support through it to allies and a constant rate especially actually healing.
(i dont mean they’re invincible zomg op, i mean that they can regen more hp at a faster rate and are thus more defensible. Combine with Immobilize/Snare which they have enough of and its very hard to catch an engi if hes determined to stay alive)
I also wasnt even touching the boons/condition removals they have.

You can also do the math and see that they have superior stacking ratio from healing power. Our best healing move is the dodge minor trait, it has a 1:1 ratio with Healing power

i dont understand why u need to talk about ur Engi.

if u really have a 80 guardian with gears u can just go and try and then compare to your engi . i would like to know though.

i never ask what your engi can do but i just give a option how i play healer guadian

Well i have both.

I play a PTV 10/10/30/20. I dont stack healing power as much because it stack rather bad with a guardian and i dont believe just healing and taking less dmg by stacking toughness actual saves you more then it prolongs the time needed to kill you.

More so when you choose to become immobile. If you are standing still, your are at a disadvatage (as a guardian). with no range or stealth we’re always visible (in fact the most visibly noticeable profession) so when ur forced to hide in a shell that you can really do much with. You give the enemy time to plan, regroup, set-up attacks.

Ever had a power necro double Well you as your sanctuary comes down? Its a death sentence. All the effort spent casting it and healing within it is wasted.

Something is horrible wrong with consacration if all Guardians are using mostly shouts and meditation.

Using consacration is inviable right now. CD is far too long to even consider it.
And when you do it, it is short, have a cast time, imobilize you and more often have LOL effect.

Sanctuary is a sanctuary, it should stays as it is: A place you consacrate to be safe.
However, it’s bubble is far too small, HUGE CD and lasts for far too little. You can use it, though, to lock people in corners or block narrow passages… but so can line of waring with a far smaller CD.

Hallowed Ground is good. Longer CD, but it also lasts longer. Problem with it as the “stand your ground shout”, allows you to get the same effect, with a shorted CD and with an added bonus that you can use shouts to remove condition.

Flame Circle is ok. Cleanse you and everyone, does dmg.

But you know what’s the problem with all this ok consacration?
No syncronization.
If you use shouts, you hacve a soldier rune that lets you get the added benefit of conditional removal.
If you use meditation you can trait and get an awsome healing (nearly 2k), and of course, far shorted CD.

When you use consacration…. well, you get consacration, long CD and nothing else.

Consacration is not working as intended. It can’t be.

i dont get what you are talking . its just totally off topic

u dont play it doest mean guadian cant heal

if u are talking about pvp all my chars wearing full berzerg with full dps.

Reihert.1509:

Something is horrible wrong with consacration if all Guardians are using mostly shouts and meditation.

Using consacration is inviable right now. CD is far too long to even consider it.
And when you do it, it is short, have a cast time, imobilize you and more often have LOL effect.

Sanctuary is a sanctuary, it should stays as it is: A place you consacrate to be safe.
However, it’s bubble is far too small, HUGE CD and lasts for far too little. You can use it, though, to lock people in corners or block narrow passages… but so can line of waring with a far smaller CD.

Hallowed Ground is good. Longer CD, but it also lasts longer. Problem with it as the “stand your ground shout”, allows you to get the same effect, with a shorted CD and with an added bonus that you can use shouts to remove condition.

Flame Circle is ok. Cleanse you and everyone, does dmg.

But you know what’s the problem with all this ok consacration?
No syncronization.
If you use shouts, you hacve a soldier rune that lets you get the added benefit of conditional removal.
If you use meditation you can trait and get an awsome healing (nearly 2k), and of course, far shorted CD.

When you use consacration…. well, you get consacration, long CD and nothing else.

Consacration is not working as intended. It can’t be.

I agree with you on most points.

In a previous thread i had made. I argued that Smite Condition was a more “Defensive Move” and served more to your survival advantage when traited for Monks Focus then Sanctuary. And i still do.

With a 2.5k Heal on a 16sec cooldown that can crit (mine crits for 3k-4k) that also removes a condition. And it can be used on the move.

I really believe that move (when traited) is far superior. The only thing sanctuary would be better at is protecting siege weaponry from enemys or blocking a single treb shot.

Punny.9210:

i dont get what you are talking . its just totally off topic

u dont play it doest mean guadian cant heal

if u are talking about pvp all my chars wearing full berzerg with full dps.

Off topic?…

im sorry i cant understand what you’re saying… please use proper grammar.

i cant understand what point your trying to make. Whether the guardian CAN heal or CANT. I know he can, its just other professions do it better. This was more the around the tactical idea of Sanctuary and Consecrations and similar immobilizing/defensive moves…

Please try and phrase your question a little better for me, no offensive intended.

i was giving a idea how i play and then u started throwing ur engi stuffs which is totally off topic in Guardian forum.

I mentioned Engi’s because their ability to heal allies outshines our own.

You mentioned a good guardian healer, but with long CDs, few actual target healing ability, and tactically illogical heals that it doesnt measure up to the capability of the Engineer.

It was more a point to show that we are not the strongest healer and isnt the focus around our class. (Atleast not from what i’ve seen)

You are right however that this is a little off topic to the main point i was trying to make about Consecrations and their effectiveness (particularly the bubble and wall).

This is also a WvW and PvP point of view.

Sanctuary also is viable in sPvP but again is limited by a long cooldown and is really only useful because the score system takes advantages of areas you have to control for points so the usefulness of sanctuary is accredited to the coincidence that that wraps around the point of capture rather then the fact that sanctuary is a good defensive move over-all.

To me Healing =/= Defense, its more of a buffer or way to increase lasting longer in hopes of finding an opportunity to escape/defend/regroup. And a guardian should be by definition a defensible Tank Class.

I see us right now as a sponge more then anything.

I play a bubble-blowing guardian in WvW. I agree with you that ground denial is one of guardians’ specialties. However, I do think that consecrations, when traited with ground targeting (which I find to be essential), will do exactly what you envision them doing: Jedi’ing with people.

One thing I find about consecrations as a whole is that they are powerful, but have very specialized uses. Unlike shouts, which are used to buff and defend allies and can be used in any situation, sanctuary and wall of reflections are more effective at disrupting the enemy, which requires you to pick your spot as you can’t disrupt your enemy in every situation. Therefore, I find they are most useful to be cast not at places where you want to go, but rather at places where you don’t want the enemy to be.

For example, I find that wall and sanctuary are rarely useful at holding your team’s line when they are already retreating, but work much better when you want to initiate a push, either in an open-field standoff or out of a tower/keep. They are temporary fire-suppressants that gives a huge advantage to your team for a short period of time. However, if your team is not well-coordinated and aren’t pushing, then it’s just a shiny thing that sits there looking pretty for a few seconds. Sanctuary and things like line of ward can also be cast directly into the middle of enemy formations, which cause momentary panic and confusion for a few seconds. Those few seconds can decide which side breaks and retreats, and which side collects bags.

Of course, sanctuary, being my favorite utility skill, is one of the only skills in the game that completely denies passage to a non-stabilized enemy for an extended duration, which is around 12 seconds fully traited. Although the area is small, it can be used very well to hold off choke points such as tower gates, stairs, and some cliffside passages. You can knock people off siege weapons, walls, cliffs, and so on. Usually, the only times that I actual go run into it is when the primary function has been fulfilled – disrupted the enemy line, or in solo/2v2 situations, which can buy you some time against annoying thieves, for example.

That said, the only two consecration that I use regularly are wall and sanctuary. I will pull out hallowed ground once in a while for specific situations, and never found purging flames to be really all that special for my play style. I would like to see a little more functionality from those two skills (make them more fun to play with), and maybe increase the radius of the sanctuary bubble… just a little =).

Reihert.1509:

When you use consacration…. well, you get consacration, long CD and nothing else.

I disagree, you get COMBOS. Our only combo fields that aren’t light are consecrations. Wall of Reflection is also our longest lasting light field, available with any weapon loadout. If you have people around you, those two fire fields can also be AoE might, AoE burning, single target burning. If you have a Wall of Reflection on the playfield, you’re also enabling ridiculous amounts of condition removal and a healthy dose of retaliation on top of the incredible damage it can reflect.
Even with Hallowed Ground, yeah Stand Your Ground might be better in a lot of situations but for holding a point, Hallowed Ground can be a game changer, not to mention if you have Altruistic Healing (and who doesn’t these days?) every second an ally is in there, you get healed for each ally!

I can’t take Wall of Reflection off my bar. I also use the Consecrated Ground trait with Wall of Reflection and Purging Flames. It’s supremely useful.

Yes I’m assuming there’s people around using finishers but that’s exactly what the combo fields are for. They aren’t stand alone as you say.

Telegraph.7509:

I play a bubble-blowing guardian in WvW. I agree with you that ground denial is one of guardians’ specialties. However, I do think that consecrations, when traited with ground targeting (which I find to be essential), will do exactly what you envision them doing: Jedi’ing with people.

One thing I find about consecrations as a whole is that they are powerful, but have very specialized uses. Unlike shouts, which are used to buff and defend allies and can be used in any situation, sanctuary and wall of reflections are more effective at disrupting the enemy, which requires you to pick your spot as you can’t disrupt your enemy in every situation. Therefore, I find they are most useful to be cast not at places where you want to go, but rather at places where you don’t want the enemy to be.

For example, I find that wall and sanctuary are rarely useful at holding your team’s line when they are already retreating, but work much better when you want to initiate a push, either in an open-field standoff or out of a tower/keep. They are temporary fire-suppressants that gives a huge advantage to your team for a short period of time. However, if your team is not well-coordinated and aren’t pushing, then it’s just a shiny thing that sits there looking pretty for a few seconds. Sanctuary and things like line of ward can also be cast directly into the middle of enemy formations, which cause momentary panic and confusion for a few seconds. Those few seconds can decide which side breaks and retreats, and which side collects bags.

Of course, sanctuary, being my favorite utility skill, is one of the only skills in the game that completely denies passage to a non-stabilized enemy for an extended duration, which is around 12 seconds fully traited. Although the area is small, it can be used very well to hold off choke points such as tower gates, stairs, and some cliffside passages. You can knock people off siege weapons, walls, cliffs, and so on. Usually, the only times that I actual go run into it is when the primary function has been fulfilled – disrupted the enemy line, or in solo/2v2 situations, which can buy you some time against annoying thieves, for example.

That said, the only two consecration that I use regularly are wall and sanctuary. I will pull out hallowed ground once in a while for specific situations, and never found purging flames to be really all that special for my play style. I would like to see a little more functionality from those two skills (make them more fun to play with), and maybe increase the radius of the sanctuary bubble… just a little =).

Concerning the solo/2v2 that exactly the problem. It only buys you time. Just to take more dmg right after it comes down. The worst part about it is you have to say inside it, you move and you’ve wasted the skill. Even warriors block everything and move at the same time with their shields. But when your immobilizing yourself and limiting your movement range of movement i find that to be a major weakness.

The thief can re-stealth and regen all his initiative by the time your bubble comes down and heals you (most likely no where near full hp), a thief could use that to set up a trap or jump you from stealth. A warrior (equipping a rifle) could take the time after seeing the Sanctuary or WoR and just stop firing, step back, gain distance and bam a couple seconds later your having to deal with an even big disadvantage due to increased distance.

Thats why we need in usuable while moving. We dont need ranged, we dont need swiftness 100% of the time. We just need some more applicable defense in order to allow for our own tactics/set-ups.

Ranger or Warrior pelting me with bullets, the moving WoR would reflect that but it wouldnt be wasted because we could still gain distance towards our target.

Sanctuary could help for a more successful and strategic retreat. Actually watching and protecting your allies’ backs as absorb the projectiles from the incoming zerg on your tail. Or use it a moving/pushing turtle shell to annoy and stall the opponent and disrupt them.

With Zerg v Zerg fights as big as they are i definitely feel you on the size issue. They’re small and easily avoidable (imo) and soon players should know not to shoot into it and how to side-step past annoying things.

Im just constantly surprised how our unique/signature abilites are the ones least used and are (IMO) the most non-defensive abilities.

For allies, yes a sanctuary is nice! They dont waste a utility that takes 2min to come back and they get healing! But it sucks for the guardian who is either caught off guard or ganked with those abilities.

I guess in a nutshell i want to see some Offensive Viability through consecrations. Because right now is seems as if these skills are only really giving effectiveness when your team is losing, is now retreating, and a zerg is hot on their tails.

Which ends up with the guardian valiantly dieing in the process of blocking that zerg or protecting. At by which point your allies have already left you in the dust and are high-tailing it outta there.

I see all these guardians out there, playing like warriors. They only take advantage of healing (like in AH and MF of Valor Tree) because it supplements an already low hp-pool class and gives it better survivability while saving good dmg for the fight.

But Healing =/= Defense. Those guardians are only using the constant healing in the same way the warriors are set with a larger hp-pool. Its a buffer. A time increaser.

But things like AH and MF are better for Defense and ultimately would save you more because your still mobile and offensive during it, coupled with the healing they provide it makes tactical sense. Which in turn scares the enemy and causes panic. An enemy watching you heal inside a bubble isnt at a panic, in fact, it gives them a “breather” or “break” to reformulate a plan of attack to take you down.

Edit: Sry for double post, i wasnt able to add on to my last post for some weird reason lol

Wizardauz.3761:

Punny.9210:

i dont get what you are talking . its just totally off topic

u dont play it doest mean guadian cant heal

if u are talking about pvp all my chars wearing full berzerg with full dps.

Off topic?…

im sorry i cant understand what you’re saying… please use proper grammar.

i cant understand what point your trying to make. Whether the guardian CAN heal or CANT. I know he can, its just other professions do it better. This was more the around the tactical idea of Sanctuary and Consecrations and similar immobilizing/defensive moves…

Please try and phrase your question a little better for me, no offensive intended.

Your english make little sense mate. Judge not lest ye be judged..

seithan.4823:

Wizardauz.3761:

Punny.9210:

i dont get what you are talking . its just totally off topic

u dont play it doest mean guadian cant heal

if u are talking about pvp all my chars wearing full berzerg with full dps.

Off topic?…

im sorry i cant understand what you’re saying… please use proper grammar.

i cant understand what point your trying to make. Whether the guardian CAN heal or CANT. I know he can, its just other professions do it better. This was more the around the tactical idea of Sanctuary and Consecrations and similar immobilizing/defensive moves…

Please try and phrase your question a little better for me, no offensive intended.

Your english make little sense mate. Judge not lest ye be judged..

Was my english really that terrible to warrant you to come onto this thread just to point that out?…

And i didnt mean to belittle him, i only wished to be better informed about the question he posed. Because of this i wasnt able to fully come to a conclusion on what exactly he meant to convey.

And yes, im not perfect. I can make a mistake. In fact i used “Your” when i should of used “You’re” and im leaving it in their for everyone to laugh and make fun of me about. Im wrong. Your right. Happy now?

Please play english teacher else where when im theorycrafting. Thank you.

Punny.9210:

i dont understand why u need to talk about ur Engi.

if u really have a 80 guardian with gears u can just go and try and then compare to your engi . i would like to know though.

i never ask what your engi can do but i just give a option how i play healer guadian

I think what he’s trying to say is, your healing is fecal matter compared to Engineer options.

Engineer has targeted heals if he traited for it.
Guardians have nothing like that unless you want a 2 minute cooldown heal bubble that needs two traits to be targeted and reduced cooldown.

Wake the kitten up.