Guild Wars 2

First, I have a level 80 warrior, thief, guardian, and have played them all in WvWvW.
When you compare those 3 professions, can you see what is missing from 1 of them?
Cripple, immobilize, stun, root, slow, etc.

Compared to every other profession, they have many abilities that are able to be spammed: cripple/slow on less then a 5-10 second CD often from range. Guardians on the other hand who have almost no range at all barely have any of this. We all know guardians are probably the least mobile profession in the game, compared to all the other low CD teleporting abilities of other professions and I am fine with that, but what really bugs me is after all that work of getting to a player, we have such little ability to keep them near us.

Guardians:
No cripples,
Hammer has a 45s CD trait that slows targets for 4seconds….
Hammer has a 2s immobilize that is impossible to use from more then 300 range without it failing
Hammer’s ring of warding is a joke, considering you can jump over, dodge roll through it, teleport through it.
Greatsword has a pull on 24s CD
Bane signet 45s cd 2s knockdown

Warriors:
1h sword 8.5s cripple on 15s CD
Hammer 8.75s cripple on 15s CD
Longbow 3.75s immobilze on 25s CD
Axe throw 5s cripple 10s CD
greatsword 5s cripple 15s CD
riffle 6.5s cripple 10s cd

Thieves:
dagger ranged 5s cripple 4 imitative
short-bow 2s cripple 4 initiative
sword 1s immobilize 3 initiative

Many more examples can be posted from all of these professions. The point is, guardians are the only profession that is basically melee only. We have no range, we should have MANY MORE ways of keeping our targets near us because of this. We take so much damage just getting to something and can be kited easily. I would like to see cripple added to the melee abilities across the board for guardian.

Agreed.
Yes…it’s true we have loads of tools to get in front of our enemies and very few to stop/snare/slow em, we got some with some huge cd.
So the major problem is not getting into em, but keep staying close to an escaping enemies.
Totally true, sadly.

Hm, I have never had a problem of getting kited. I usually have speed boons up a majority of the time. But I think any flaw can be made up with builds (except range—those dayum archers on high ground). But as with any build, you cant do everything. I use retreat, save yourselves, and JI as my utilities and use gs and sword/sheild for weapons. I have two sources of speed boons and 4 moves I can use to close the gap between me and my opponent. Very few (if any at all) classes can run faster than us it’s just a matter of catching up to them. But you can do that with JI, binding blade, sword #2, and gs #3. But I built myself around not being kited and closing the gap—if you dont want the utilities I mentioned/weapons then…you have to accept that your build has some flaws. But yes, it’d be great if we generally had more stuff.

Guardians have two blinks. One with 600 range and a 10 second cooldown (sword) and one with 1200 range with a 45 second cooldown. No, guardians do not have much CC relative to a warrior, but that’s class mechanics. Warrior is built to be great at CC. However, comparing a guardian to a thief, guardians have plenty of control. In fact, AOE control. I don’t see the need considering a guardian can close an 1800 range gap in an instant, which is even more powerful than the leaps or rushes that a warrior has mind you, and the guardian isn’t built to “chase” things.

Every class can run away from a guardian if he decides he wants to live. Even with having boons remove conditions (it only removes 1 not all), you will get left in the dust because you can’t keep your enemies near you.

We have no ranged attacks, we should have more control when in melee range. And I do use judges intervention and 1hand sword. But sadly, any profession can run away with ease if they start to lose.

Back when the Greatsword Symbol was nerfed I proposed that instead of it granting Retaliation, it grant a different boon to allies and cause a cripple to those enemies caught inside of it. It could even increase in intensity based on how close the target was to the center of the Symbol. I would love to see something akin to that added to the Guardian weapon choices.

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Shadowscamp.8065:

Guardians have two blinks. One with 600 range and a 10 second cooldown (sword) and one with 1200 range with a 45 second cooldown. No, guardians do not have much CC relative to a warrior, but that’s class mechanics. Warrior is built to be great at CC. However, comparing a guardian to a thief, guardians have plenty of control. In fact, AOE control. I don’t see the need considering a guardian can close an 1800 range gap in an instant, which is even more powerful than the leaps or rushes that a warrior has mind you, and the guardian isn’t built to “chase” things.

They can close the gap but what happens after the gap has been closed? It opens again as soon as the target, unless it is another melee intense build, decides to dodge roll away or teleport or whatever they decide to do.

I think our trait, which is a 4th item trait could be reduced. 50% chance on crit to apply a 4s slow with a 45s CD, that is a bit much. It should be 15s CD in my opinion. And have it apply to all weapons not just the hammer.

The problem really is that all other professions have much better break stun abilities/remove all condition heals/etc.

People still talking about 1234887 blink ability or teleport.
No one doubt it.
We’re talking about keep closer to the target when blinked to em and immobilize/knocked him.
As other said, we have some CC but huge cooldown make them lackluster, and since most of profession have Chill/Cripple almost spammable we need them too, there is no excuse about not giving them only to Guardians.
And BTW as much we have speed, enemies got speed too, if they want to escape, trust me they will, except they get bursted down in some secs.

Hammer has a circle wall, a gap closer, a knockback, and a snare. A greatsword has a mobile AOE, an AOE snare and pull, albeit an unreliable one, and a gap closer. A sword has a blink, a scepter has a single target snare. A shield has an AOE knockback. A staff has a knockdown wall. You can pair all these things with projectile reflection/absorption. I’m not quite sure what the issue is. You can prevent ranged damage, you have four gap closers, two snares, one pull, and two walls. That paired with the guardian aesthetic of preventing damage is incredibly powerful already.

Edit: Guardians have SO many condition removals. SO many. And plenty of them are AOE for your allies as well. As well as healing and AOE healing.

Shadowscamp.8065:

Hammer has a circle wall, a gap closer, a knockback, and a snare. A greatsword has a mobile AOE, an AOE snare and pull, albeit an unreliable one, and a gap closer. A sword has a blink, a scepter has a single target snare. A shield has an AOE knockback. A staff has a knockdown wall. You can pair all these things with projectile reflection/absorption. I’m not quite sure what the issue is. You can prevent ranged damage, you have four gap closers, two snares, one pull, and two walls. That paired with the guardian aesthetic of preventing damage is incredibly powerful already.

If you look at it on paper it makes sense but in practicality it doesn’t actually work like that. Play any serious WvW or sPvP and you will see that if a target wants to get away from you, they very easily can. Absolutely no way to keep a competent player locked down as a Guardian.

Animus.6073:

Shadowscamp.8065:

Guardians have two blinks. One with 600 range and a 10 second cooldown (sword) and one with 1200 range with a 45 second cooldown. No, guardians do not have much CC relative to a warrior, but that’s class mechanics. Warrior is built to be great at CC. However, comparing a guardian to a thief, guardians have plenty of control. In fact, AOE control. I don’t see the need considering a guardian can close an 1800 range gap in an instant, which is even more powerful than the leaps or rushes that a warrior has mind you, and the guardian isn’t built to “chase” things.

They can close the gap but what happens after the gap has been closed? It opens again as soon as the target, unless it is another melee intense build, decides to dodge roll away or teleport or whatever they decide to do.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but do that many classes have more manueverable options as us? The only thing we need really is close the gap and have a speed boon on.

Close gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy doesn’t have speed boon. Win.

Close gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy has speed boon→doesn’t matter cause we are at the same speed and I can touch him. Win. (Winning meaning, actually knowing how to fight and win in close combat)

Close the gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy does some teleport.
Close gap with leap of faith. Win.

Close the gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy does some telport.
Close gap with leap of faith.
Guy does another teleport.
Close gap with sword #2. Win.

Close the gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy does some teleport.
Close the gap with leap of faith.
Guy does some teleport.
Close gap with sword #2.
Guy does some teleport.
Bind blade him and pull him back. Win.

Now if he can teleport away after all that WITH speed boon. Then yes, idk what you can do then. we need lower cds or whatnot, but I’ve never had that happen.

As again…we’re not talking about walls, protection, gap closer ability, we have all of them.
The problem is after u reach ur target, and ur single CC or warding/pull has finished u have no chance to stay closer to ur target and if he wants to escape, it will.
Don’t forget u mentioned massively knockdown, cc, circle of warding, teleporting, but u forget u have to build into it loosing something else.
And again…we got some CC, right, but VERY HUGE CD compared on how faster others profession can apply Chill/Cripple with almost every build.
The problem is just that, still viable, but still we have a little issue with ppl escaping from ur engage.

As for being crippled, signet of resolve/virtue traiting/rune of lyssa all 6. Helps. Or whirl combo finisher to JI so you remove condition and close the gap.

@ ArcTheFallen

Rare is the case u can burst some ppl down if they try to escape, once u finish ur gap closer, he teleports, ok u go closer to him again, but he will keep escaping simply cuz they can, simply cuz we have massive CD on CC skills.
What then if they apply snare to you while running away? You will answer “condition removal”…well they can re-apply chill/cripple faster that u can remove that.
I wish i have some chill/cripple ability too on proc or skills that can be spammable as like other profession do.
I think is reasonable asking to do something that all profession already do, why do we have to be “Different?”
That’s the same argument about ranged weapon, everyone got it, except guardian since they say “you’re a support/tank and you don’t need it” etc.

I don’t know, the person would have to have a lot for my build. 2 stun breakers, 3 condition removers, 4 ways to close the gap, 3 speed boon buffs. Ah, but what am I saying, I don’t play spvp, but it’s worked for me in encounters all around from front lines to gankers to drifters in numbers up to 3. But yes you do lose different things with the build I’m suggesting, and I do not use hammer. But idk, if you just want to get to the opponnet and finish them, this could be a consideeration.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Animus.6073:

Shadowscamp.8065:

Guardians have two blinks. One with 600 range and a 10 second cooldown (sword) and one with 1200 range with a 45 second cooldown. No, guardians do not have much CC relative to a warrior, but that’s class mechanics. Warrior is built to be great at CC. However, comparing a guardian to a thief, guardians have plenty of control. In fact, AOE control. I don’t see the need considering a guardian can close an 1800 range gap in an instant, which is even more powerful than the leaps or rushes that a warrior has mind you, and the guardian isn’t built to “chase” things.

They can close the gap but what happens after the gap has been closed? It opens again as soon as the target, unless it is another melee intense build, decides to dodge roll away or teleport or whatever they decide to do.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but do that many classes have more manueverable options as us? The only thing we need really is close the gap and have a speed boon on.

Close gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy doesn’t have speed boon. Win.

Close gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy has speed boon->doesn’t matter cause we are at the same speed and I can touch him. Win. (Winning meaning, actually knowing how to fight and win in close combat)

Close the gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy does some teleport.
Close gap with leap of faith. Win.

Close the gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy does some telport.
Close gap with leap of faith.
Guy does another teleport.
Close gap with sword #2. Win.

Close the gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy does some teleport.
Close the gap with leap of faith.
Guy does some teleport.
Close gap with sword #2.
Guy does some teleport.
Bind blade him and pull him back. Win.

Now if he can teleport away after all that WITH speed boon. Then yes, idk what you can do then. we need lower cds or whatnot, but I’ve never had that happen.

All of those situations can and do happen. However, I don’t see any situation you listed where the opponent snares/stuns/slows/knockbacks/knockdowns/blinds. Every profession has access to at least half of these abilities and in WvW or sPvP, you will not find people that don’t take these abilities and use them as escape mechanisms as much as offensive mechanisms. Add the natural dodge roll and blinks/teleports/repositions on top of any of that CC and your target will leave you in the dust.

Ocelot.3148:

@ ArcTheFallen

Rare is the case u can burst some ppl down if they try to escape, once u finish ur gap closer, he teleports, ok u go closer to him again, but he will keep escaping simply cuz they can, simply cuz we have massive CD on CC skills.
What then if they apply snare to you while running away? You will answer “condition removal”…well they can re-apply chill/cripple faster that u can remove that.
I wish i have some chill/cripple ability too on proc or skills that can be spammable as like other profession do.
I think is reasonable asking to do something that all profession already do, why do we have to be “Different?”
That’s the same argument about ranged weapon, everyone got it, except guardian since they say “you’re a support/tank and you don’t need it” etc.

And for cd, the point is to kill them before they have another chance to cd. Hopefully in excahge with a lot of skills to leave and run, they dont have as many other skills to help in other areas that could lead to their death.

I’d rather the Guardian get more interesting ways to CC its opponents, rather than doing a copy-paste of Warriors. How cool would it be to have a grandmaster trait that snares nearby enemies (say, 400-600 range) for 1s whenever you crit? Heck, I’d rather they toss Glacial Heart into Zeal as a grandmaster so they can actually make it useful.

@ ArcTheFallen

So if you want avoid snare/cripple as u think you just need to go deeper in some traits sacrificing something else and BUY A WHOLE SET of rune to do that job?
What about instead giving the same chance to apply cripple/snare as other profession?
It sounds so much unfair and unbalanced to you or just a natural question?

Shadowscamp.8065:

Hammer has a circle wall, a gap closer, a knockback, and a snare. A greatsword has a mobile AOE, an AOE snare and pull, albeit an unreliable one, and a gap closer. A sword has a blink, a scepter has a single target snare. A shield has an AOE knockback. A staff has a knockdown wall. You can pair all these things with projectile reflection/absorption. I’m not quite sure what the issue is. You can prevent ranged damage, you have four gap closers, two snares, one pull, and two walls. That paired with the guardian aesthetic of preventing damage is incredibly powerful already.

Lets break this down.
1. Hammer has a circles wall, that any player can dodge roll through, jump over, teleport through, or us stability and walk through it and /laugh.

2. Hammer has a knockback, that flings the target AWAY FROM you. Even though it knocks them down they havetime to get up and run before you have time to get to them, so this ability really is pointless unless you are knocking someone off the edge.

3. Hammer has an immobilize, not a snare. 2s, the thing is, its casted, slow, and you can jump over it.

4. Hammer has a gap closer? Oh please tell me what that is? Mighty blow is not a gap closer.

5. Staff has a knockdown wall, that they can just run around? Also who uses staff as a secondary it is the most waste of a weapon for guardian unless you are support.

6. Greatsword does have a nice gap closer, but its a on a longer cd that most other classes. It is also only 600 range

7. Greatsword does have a pull, but its ranges is only 600, by the time you try to use it, the [insert other profession] has already gone 900+ range

8. Greatsword does not have an aoe snare

9. 1hand sword flashing blade is nice, 10s cd, but again 600 range.

Our problem that you are not following, is we lack holding power. For a class that is based all around melee only, we have very little in the form of CC on targets.

Thieves can spam skills. That’s their thing. That’s why they’re built around initiative, not cooldowns. Necromancers spam conditions ‘cause that’s their thing. Warriors have a few gap closers and good CC, but on fairly large cooldowns, but that’s also their thing. Rangers do ranged damage, ‘cause well, that’s also their thing. Engineers have MASSIVE control, but that’s also their thing. Mesmers have decent control, but also cannot be pinned down because that’s their thing.

I have nothing to say about elementalists.

Either way, you don’t need to close the gap to initiate the fight. You can also use only one of your skills to close the gap and then you have plenty more gap closers once they try to run away. You also have some decent (sometimes) control over them while you’re next to them. You’re arguing “yes, we have lots of gap closers”, but you -also- want to always be able to keep them from running from you so you don’t have to use them?

What’s going on here?

Animus.6073:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Animus.6073:

Shadowscamp.8065:

Guardians have two blinks. One with 600 range and a 10 second cooldown (sword) and one with 1200 range with a 45 second cooldown. No, guardians do not have much CC relative to a warrior, but that’s class mechanics. Warrior is built to be great at CC. However, comparing a guardian to a thief, guardians have plenty of control. In fact, AOE control. I don’t see the need considering a guardian can close an 1800 range gap in an instant, which is even more powerful than the leaps or rushes that a warrior has mind you, and the guardian isn’t built to “chase” things.

They can close the gap but what happens after the gap has been closed? It opens again as soon as the target, unless it is another melee intense build, decides to dodge roll away or teleport or whatever they decide to do.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but do that many classes have more manueverable options as us? The only thing we need really is close the gap and have a speed boon on.

Close gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy doesn’t have speed boon. Win.

Close gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy has speed boon->doesn’t matter cause we are at the same speed and I can touch him. Win. (Winning meaning, actually knowing how to fight and win in close combat)

Close the gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy does some teleport.
Close gap with leap of faith. Win.

Close the gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy does some telport.
Close gap with leap of faith.
Guy does another teleport.
Close gap with sword #2. Win.

Close the gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy does some teleport.
Close the gap with leap of faith.
Guy does some teleport.
Close gap with sword #2.
Guy does some teleport.
Bind blade him and pull him back. Win.

Now if he can teleport away after all that WITH speed boon. Then yes, idk what you can do then. we need lower cds or whatnot, but I’ve never had that happen.

All of those situations can and do happen. However, I don’t see any situation you listed where the opponent snares/stuns/slows/knockbacks/knockdowns/blinds. Every profession has access to at least half of these abilities and in WvW or sPvP, you will not find people that don’t take these abilities and use them as escape mechanisms as much as offensive mechanisms. Add the natural dodge roll and blinks/teleports/repositions on top of any of that CC and your target will leave you in the dust.

I get what you are saying, but I assume that you can handle that when it comes. The build I have has two stun breakers and 3 condition removers. And most of those they’d have to “engage” in combat to do. Hit and run I guess makes sense, but

Knockdown→JI close the gap
→Save Yourselves, Leap of Faith or Sword #2

There’s many situations I know, but I really don’t think other classes can that have THAT much more on us than we can prepare for. it’s just we are more strictly pinned down and do not have a lot of variety in options.

I’m not asking a boost or nerf or fix.
I’m just asking the same possibility to apply CC to defense/attk my enemies as other , ALL other professions do.

Oh right, we have aegis too guys. Time it well, free blocks.

SKuDDer.1860:

Shadowscamp.8065:

Hammer has a circle wall, a gap closer, a knockback, and a snare. A greatsword has a mobile AOE, an AOE snare and pull, albeit an unreliable one, and a gap closer. A sword has a blink, a scepter has a single target snare. A shield has an AOE knockback. A staff has a knockdown wall. You can pair all these things with projectile reflection/absorption. I’m not quite sure what the issue is. You can prevent ranged damage, you have four gap closers, two snares, one pull, and two walls. That paired with the guardian aesthetic of preventing damage is incredibly powerful already.

Lets break this down.
1. Hammer has a circles wall, that any player can dodge roll through, jump over, teleport through, or us stability and walk through it and /laugh.

2. Hammer has a knockback, that flings the target AWAY FROM you. Even though it knocks them down they havetime to get up and run before you have time to get to them, so this ability really is pointless unless you are knocking someone off the edge.

3. Hammer has an immobilize, not a snare. 2s, the thing is, its casted, slow, and you can jump over it.

4. Hammer has a gap closer? Oh please tell me what that is? Mighty blow is not a gap closer.

5. Staff has a knockdown wall, that they can just run around? Also who uses staff as a secondary it is the most waste of a weapon for guardian unless you are support.

6. Greatsword does have a nice gap closer, but its a on a longer cd that most other classes. It is also only 600 range

7. Greatsword does have a pull, but its ranges is only 600, by the time you try to use it, the [insert other profession] has already gone 900+ range

8. Greatsword does not have an aoe snare

9. 1hand sword flashing blade is nice, 10s cd, but again 600 range.

Our problem that you are not following, is we lack holding power. For a class that is based all around melee only, we have very little in the form of CC on targets.

QFT. The issue is not getting to the target. It is staying on top of it, like any melee class/profession should be able to do.

Quote @ SkuDDer
Quote @ Animus

@TheArcFallen

Wtf means we got aegis? Does it relate to gapcloser or cc the opponent?

SKuDDer.1860:

Shadowscamp.8065:

Hammer has a circle wall, a gap closer, a knockback, and a snare. A greatsword has a mobile AOE, an AOE snare and pull, albeit an unreliable one, and a gap closer. A sword has a blink, a scepter has a single target snare. A shield has an AOE knockback. A staff has a knockdown wall. You can pair all these things with projectile reflection/absorption. I’m not quite sure what the issue is. You can prevent ranged damage, you have four gap closers, two snares, one pull, and two walls. That paired with the guardian aesthetic of preventing damage is incredibly powerful already.

Lets break this down.
1. Hammer has a circles wall, that any player can dodge roll through, jump over, teleport through, or us stability and walk through it and /laugh.

2. Hammer has a knockback, that flings the target AWAY FROM you. Even though it knocks them down they havetime to get up and run before you have time to get to them, so this ability really is pointless unless you are knocking someone off the edge.

3. Hammer has an immobilize, not a snare. 2s, the thing is, its casted, slow, and you can jump over it.

4. Hammer has a gap closer? Oh please tell me what that is? Mighty blow is not a gap closer.

5. Staff has a knockdown wall, that they can just run around? Also who uses staff as a secondary it is the most waste of a weapon for guardian unless you are support.

6. Greatsword does have a nice gap closer, but its a on a longer cd that most other classes. It is also only 600 range

7. Greatsword does have a pull, but its ranges is only 600, by the time you try to use it, the [insert other profession] has already gone 900+ range

8. Greatsword does not have an aoe snare

9. 1hand sword flashing blade is nice, 10s cd, but again 600 range.

Our problem that you are not following, is we lack holding power. For a class that is based all around melee only, we have very little in the form of CC on targets.

We do have holding power, it’s all about timing of our abilities. Like, if someone is not more than 900 away from me, I’m not going to use JI. When I first encounter an opponent, I have aegis due to virute of courage (we all do!) so a free block when the battle begins, use short range gap closers when they are nearby. When they reach outside our combat comfort zone, whip out JI, speed boons to catch up. As long as you can get in range of the opponent, bind them, drag them back->we can do a lot of things while some gap closers are on cool down and btw sword #2 is very very short. Not only that but shield #5 can give you a second or two by knocking the opponent down when you are near.

Ocelot.3148:

Quote @ SkuDDer
Quote @ Animus

@TheArcFallen

Wtf means we got aegis? Does it relate to gapcloser or cc the opponent?

Lol, you guys are confusing me, first you were talking about “catching up” so I mentioned gap closers.

Then someone mentioned knockback or skills to put you down so aegis helps with that. It helps with combat and deflecting moves that could put more of a gap between you two.

Then you tell me we need holding power which is relevant to combat. And I mentioned above what you can do and it’s about what to use and when.

The only three professions that have legitimate blinks are mesmers, thieves, and guardians. Mesmers cannot be pinned down. That’s a fact. Thieves are also VERY hard to pin down. However, every class has condition removal, and if you don’t run it, then you’re kind of screwed in many cases. If a warrior blows his gap closers on you, then he has a very hard time of escaping, depending on his weapon set.

However, all of these annoyances of condition removal and running also applies to other classes. If a warrior wants to run, he can (sometimes). If a thief wants to run, God knows he can. If a mesmer wants to run, you’ll NEVER catch them. A ranger can’t really run that well, I don’t think. A Necromancer is incredibly difficult to kill. A dagger/dagger elementalist has incredible mobility, but a staff elementalist is basically stuck there. A guardian prevents all your damage, but yes, guardians don’t really have a whole lot in terms of escapes. But you’re only looking at this from a guardian standpoint. From every other class, this is also true. The only really good chasing profession is a thief, because that’s what they do. If anyone wants to PURELY chase anyone who is ONLY running besides a thief, basically your only option is a ranger or a staff elementalist. This applies to ALL classes.

Edit: An Engineer is also incredibly good at kiting.

Aegis vs Knockdown?
From when you can time aegis or predict when the opponent do it?
I think you know that aegis block 1 ing skill attack between one trillion skills made to you.
So sir, your sentence makes no sense.

And about holding power it’s not true, if a guy want to escape from you, it will do, even if u right-time ur skills, except it goes down in your “exaggerate burst”

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Animus.6073:

Shadowscamp.8065:

Guardians have two blinks. One with 600 range and a 10 second cooldown (sword) and one with 1200 range with a 45 second cooldown. No, guardians do not have much CC relative to a warrior, but that’s class mechanics. Warrior is built to be great at CC. However, comparing a guardian to a thief, guardians have plenty of control. In fact, AOE control. I don’t see the need considering a guardian can close an 1800 range gap in an instant, which is even more powerful than the leaps or rushes that a warrior has mind you, and the guardian isn’t built to “chase” things.

They can close the gap but what happens after the gap has been closed? It opens again as soon as the target, unless it is another melee intense build, decides to dodge roll away or teleport or whatever they decide to do.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but do that many classes have more manueverable options as us? The only thing we need really is close the gap and have a speed boon on.

Close gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy doesn’t have speed boon. Win.

Close gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy has speed boon->doesn’t matter cause we are at the same speed and I can touch him. Win. (Winning meaning, actually knowing how to fight and win in close combat)

Close the gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy does some teleport.
Close gap with leap of faith. Win.

Close the gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy does some telport.
Close gap with leap of faith.
Guy does another teleport.
Close gap with sword #2. Win.

Close the gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy does some teleport.
Close the gap with leap of faith.
Guy does some teleport.
Close gap with sword #2.
Guy does some teleport.
Bind blade him and pull him back. Win.

Now if he can teleport away after all that WITH speed boon. Then yes, idk what you can do then. we need lower cds or whatnot, but I’ve never had that happen.

Lets break this down:
Fight —> get cc —> break cc —> JI —> get cc’d, goodbye
Fight —> enemy teleports (range 900+) —> forced to use JI —> cc’d —> break cc —> enemy teleports, goodbye
Fight —> stealths, goodbye
Fight —> crippled —> break stun —> crippled, kited like a boss.
and so on.

Like I said before every class that wants to run from us, easily can do so without having any form of cripple/snare, we will always lose this.

Alright, so I agree in regard to theifs and mesmers are hard to kill if they decide to escape. Lol Ocelot, aegis was just a fun insert. Don’t take that part seriously, but on other regards, other than thief and mesmer which obviously has a lot of get away options, give me a build a class could have that can get away from us. I mean, I want to believe you but I just want to see the build say “Oh, ur right” and leave it at that. Anyways, just trying to help!

As the title displays, guardians cc is lacking. We might be able to close the gap, but with no real CC, we will never keep things near us.

How about warriors 8.75s cripples, their sword leaps, and their infinite speed?
Rangers can jump backwards, teleport, and speed away after crippling you
Engineers can do 1 of 100 things to get away from you.

And less, “oh yeah, he’ll get away” I need details. The way I’m imagining it is these classes have access to all their skillsets and weapons from the sounds of it.

Hm, can I like meet up with one of you guys in WvW and have a friendly match? I really want to see what you guys mean. Because there are exceptional people I have faced to make me wonder how to keep up with them those being mesmers and theifs which I cannot really lock down on their location when they clone/stealth

SKuDDer.1860:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Animus.6073:

Shadowscamp.8065:

Guardians have two blinks. One with 600 range and a 10 second cooldown (sword) and one with 1200 range with a 45 second cooldown. No, guardians do not have much CC relative to a warrior, but that’s class mechanics. Warrior is built to be great at CC. However, comparing a guardian to a thief, guardians have plenty of control. In fact, AOE control. I don’t see the need considering a guardian can close an 1800 range gap in an instant, which is even more powerful than the leaps or rushes that a warrior has mind you, and the guardian isn’t built to “chase” things.

They can close the gap but what happens after the gap has been closed? It opens again as soon as the target, unless it is another melee intense build, decides to dodge roll away or teleport or whatever they decide to do.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but do that many classes have more manueverable options as us? The only thing we need really is close the gap and have a speed boon on.

Close gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy doesn’t have speed boon. Win.

Close gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy has speed boon->doesn’t matter cause we are at the same speed and I can touch him. Win. (Winning meaning, actually knowing how to fight and win in close combat)

Close the gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy does some teleport.
Close gap with leap of faith. Win.

Close the gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy does some telport.
Close gap with leap of faith.
Guy does another teleport.
Close gap with sword #2. Win.

Close the gap with JI with speed boon.
Guy does some teleport.
Close the gap with leap of faith.
Guy does some teleport.
Close gap with sword #2.
Guy does some teleport.
Bind blade him and pull him back. Win.

Now if he can teleport away after all that WITH speed boon. Then yes, idk what you can do then. we need lower cds or whatnot, but I’ve never had that happen.

Lets break this down:
Fight —> get cc --> break cc —> JI --> get cc’d, goodbye
Fight —> enemy teleports (range 900+) --> forced to use JI —> cc’d --> break cc —> enemy teleports, goodbye
Fight --> stealths, goodbye
Fight —> crippled --> break stun —> crippled, kited like a boss.
and so on.

Like I said before every class that wants to run from us, easily can do so without having any form of cripple/snare, we will always lose this.

Hm..for crippling, we have some options in condition removers, combo finisher condition removers, and there’s dodging if you know what cripples you plus 3 forms of aegis (Ocelot don’t bash me now) and I know you cannot really predict which move does what, but out of those 3 aegis you can hopefully avoid getting hit by certain moves to avoid dmg and inflicted conditions. Sometimes it’s a matter of how fast you can kill them before they run away. But alright, I’ll give up haha I use an awkward build anyways, hope the devs hear you guys out!

EDIT: I think I’m wrong about aegis protecting from conditions so ignore that.

You can not possibly dodge crippled from these attacks.

I think OP should play guardian more then 15mins before coming on here and saying stuff like that.

Guardian mobility is excellent we got tons of teleport ability,leaps,blink,immobilize,speed buff,Knockdown even a hook. Oh and i forgot we got even the ability to give weakness if someone with a lot of endurance is a problem.

I rather have all those tools available then a simple condition cripple that can be removed easily.

Everyone coming on those forum saying guardian suck, we got no gap closer, nothing to catch enemies need to learn how to play seriously we are one of the strongest class in the game this include wvwvw. Nobody can run away from a guardian that know how to play in wvwvw except maybe thief.

Guardian’s the least mobile?

Oh god, no. Guardian’s have good mobility and decent immobilizers.

Natas.1306:

I think OP should play guardian more then 15mins before coming on here and saying stuff like that.

Guardian mobility is excellent we got tons of teleport ability,leaps,blink,immobilize,speed buff,Knockdown even a hook. Oh and i forgot we got even the ability to give weakness if someone with a lot of endurance is a problem.

I rather have all those tools available then a simple condition cripple that can be removed easily.

Everyone coming on those forum saying guardian suck, we got no gap closer, nothing to catch enemies need to learn how to play seriously we are one of the strongest class in the game this include wvwvw. Nobody can run away from a guardian that know how to play in wvwvw except maybe thief.

Thanks, but again for the 10th time, its not about gap closers, its about controlling/keeping targets at your melee weapon after you get to them. We have no viable CC in melee range. No slows/snares/cripples on any of our weapons.

we got tons of teleport ability

As far as I know we have Judge’s intervention.

Knockdown

The knockdown on hammer flings the target outside of melee range, so its useless, the knockdown on the signet no one uses due to the long CD and it being bad in general.

immobilize

one in hammer, which is a joke, 2s has to be casted, moves in a line at a very small speed, and one on a signet that no one uses.

speed

Everyone has speed, so this is pointless

blink

no?

The real problem is that we have no snares/cripples, while most other professions have 2-8.75s snares/cripples and have many more ways to remove conditions then guardians.

Slows don’t exist. That’s what cripples are in for.

Guardians have plenty of snares.

Still don’t see the issue here.

Slows exist, they are called chills. Let me enlighten you: Glacial Heart

Please enlighten me, what snares do we have? None of our melee 1-5 do cripples.

SKuDDer.1860:

viable CC in melee range. No slows/snares/cripples on any of our weapons.

Uh, coming from a profession that doesn’t have gap closers or immobilizers it seems like you just want everything. My greatsword has 2 closers but no cripple- UNFAIR!

Let’s see how a guardian can close/stay close:

GS: Leap of Faith, Binding Blade
Hammer: Zealot’s Embrace, Ring of Warding
Staff: Symbol of Swiftness, Line of Warding
Scepter: Chains of Light
Sword: Flashing Blade
Utilities: Judges Intervention, Save Yourselves, Retreat, Signet of Wrath, Bane Signet

Yeah, my heart bleeds for your lack of ways to outmanuver your opponent.

Then call it a chill. And why exactly do you want a guardian who sets people on fire to be able to also apply a condition called a “chill”?

And in regards to snares:
Hammer.
Scepter.
Greatsword.

I agree with Dibrom. Guardian has SO many things going for it.
But you just want more.

Let me break your reasoning:

Dibrom.6408:

Let’s see how a guardian can close/stay close:

GS: Leap of Faith, Binding Blade
Leap of faith yes, binding blade no. Binding blade has to be cast first to hit the target then second to pull them back and only has a 600 range, if someone is running or teleporting this ability cannot be used as a gap closer.

Hammer: Zealot’s Embrace, Ring of Warding
Zealot’s embrace, no. this ability has to be casted, then the spell has to go from the player to the target in a line, so this is assuming the person running from you runs in a straight line and doesn’t dodge roll, because its easy to side step this ability. Ring of warding, absolutely no, you have to stop moving to cast this, small radius, and players can jump over it, dodge through it.

Staff: Symbol of Swiftness, Line of Warding
How does symbol of swiftness help? speed is not the issue. Lind of warding, no 45s cd very short range, and you can just run around it.

Scepter: Chains of Light
This one is decent, but who is going to use scepter? the rest of scepter is a joke.

Sword: Flashing Blade
This is what I use and it is ok, its only 600 range so again… its easy to get out of that with a teleport

Utilities: Judges Intervention, Save Yourselves, Retreat,
Signet of Wrath, Bane Signet

Yeah, my heart bleeds for your lack of ways to outmanuver your opponent.

Shadowscamp.8065:

Then call it a chill. And why exactly do you want a guardian who sets people on fire to be able to also apply a condition called a “chill”?

And in regards to snares:
Hammer.
Scepter.
Greatsword.

I agree with Dibrom. Guardian has SO many things going for it.
But you just want more.

Shadow, if you knew guardians like I do, you would know they already have the chill in their traits (for hammer only), its just on a way-to-long of a cooldown, 45s

….You just said that a guardian’s CC is avoidable.
Much like… Every other class’ CC.

Also, “the rest of scepter is a joke”.
Isn’t that more of a -you- problem then?

And your reasoning revolves around them getting away. Yet a guardian has, as we have pointed out, many gap closers.
Many.
You don’t blow those at the beginning of a fight. You use them when they’re running away.

Also, I’m aware that guardians have a traited chill. And.. You’re complaining that you don’t have CC. You’re telling me that if I “knew guardians like you do”, then I’d know that guardians have a chill. But isn’t that counterproductive to your argument? Of course, in my opinion, the “chill” effect is a little out of place, in regards to the fact that guardians literally set people on fire. They sneeze and they set people on fire. Regardless, it exists. So there’s another CC to add to your list.

Everything you’re saying just makes me think that you want easy mode.

Again. Waiting for an issue to pop up here.

Crippling is for the WEAK kitten Would Batman cripple an enemy? No! Why would he waste his time with something like that! Whats the purpose of crippling? to extend the distance between you and an enemy. Why the hell would you want to do something like that? What are you doing, running away? You know who also runs away? COWARDS. are you a coward? If so, get out of this sub-board, you are not welcome as a guardian. You should be ashamed of yourself kitten We are GUARDIANS. We throw ourselves at the enemy. If they run, we chase them down using our own strengths, not using some skill that hampers their own. This is what it means to have HONOR. There is no value in a fight where neither side is at their strongest. We are not thieves, we do not hide silently in the dark waiting for the right time to strike!

A great man once said “I’m the god kitten Batman.” What he meant was that though as simple as his strengths might be, he always proved to be victorious over those that maintained a clear difference in power. He did not scream “OP” when Clayface could stop his movement, nor did he complain on the forums when the Penguin started using these OHKO weapons called “guns.” No, he DEALT WITH IT. He did not need cheap gimmicks to win fights, he just needed his own strengths.

TL:DR: YOU’RE kittenING BATMAN. START ACTING LIKE HIM.

AND STOP USING ZEAL AND VIRTUES. THEY SUCK IN PVP!