Guild Wars 2

He was snarkily referring to Obal’s sticky on building a DPS guardian, which is all things considered an improvement over this.

Wasbunny.6531:

Please let me know if this makes sense and if anyone else has any other specific ways to maximize guardian DPS in a glass cannon build like this.

CptAurellian.9537:

There is a whole sticky on that topic …

He was letting you know there is already a sticky that has specific ways to maximize a glass cannon guardian’s dps since you stated you were looking for that information.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guide-DPS-Guardian-for-PVE/first

Ok, thanks foofad & laharl.

Since both Obal and Nemesis set out to make an ‘ultimate’ pure non-supportive DPS guardian build and arrived at two different solutions I was hoping this thread would put them equally to the test and compare at least these two builds point by point to see how either or both could be improved. It does look like Obal’s builds have been exhaustively theory-crafted and tested so maybe they are indeed the last word in guardian builds.

I guess since Nemesis has a reputation for being extremely meticulous when crunching the numbers and testing variations of a build, as well as showing proof of concept through his videos, I was hoping to see the guardian community point out specific ways in which they felt his conclusions were either accurate or mistaken.

Wasbunny.6531:

Since both Obal and Nemesis set out to make an ‘ultimate’ pure non-supportive DPS guardian build and arrived at two different solutions

Incorrect. Obal set out to make the best DPS build possible that also provided all the necessary and expected support that Guardians possess. Nemesis set out to make a non-support ranged dps build that contributes nothing to the group. Both accomplish their goal.

The problem is Obal’s build is actually, you know, good and useful whereas Nemesis build is a blight on the GW2 community.

Obal’s builds reflects theorycraft and testing by a lot of guardian players who know quite a bit about the class. His build is by no means “the last word” but most of us can still agree that Nemesis’s build has some problems. A numbers-by-numbers crunch isn’t really necessary since all that has already been done and we know what the highest DPS options are. From there it’s more a matter of what tradeoffs are worth making. Obal opted to build for consecrations and condition removal while I personally prefer the prot and vuln options. Unfortunately Nemesis hasn’t offered any real utility that the existing variants don’t have and his DPS output isn’t as good either.

Fair enough. I actually agree with most of what both of you are saying (‘blight on the GW2 community’ seems a bit harsh, hehe).

As I said in my first post I’m new to guardian so I was just curious what the most selfish, non-supportive, highest DPS glass cannon build would look like since that seems like what Nemesis was going for (in contrast to Obal’s). Really more as a novelty of theory crafting (like some kind of weird ranged guardian/thief mutant) then something I’d actually play or think is viable in most situations.

I like playing around with weird and wrong builds like necro-healers or thief-tanks so the non-supportive glass cannon guardian seemed interesting, if only as a novelty.

The highest theoretical DPS is 20/30/20/0/0 with sword/gs or 20/25/0/0/25 with Greatsword, depending on how you calculate boon uptime.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The highest theoretical DPS is 20/30/20/0/0 with sword/gs or 20/25/0/0/25 with Greatsword, depending on how you calculate boon uptime.

Thanks Guanglai!
Now I’m off to the HotM (although I should be leveling my guardian) and beat on some poor unfortunate golems.

Guardians are so supportive.

Wasbunny.6531:

Fair enough. I actually agree with most of what both of you are saying (‘blight on the GW2 community’ seems a bit harsh, hehe).

IN all fairness to everyone, including Nemesis, I think ‘blight’ is a reasonable adjective here.

Despite all the bickering, this is the first build in a guide I have seen that completely disregards the role that Guardians play in the meta; having some level of team support, mostly with boons/defense. I just don’t get the underlying concept of the build, which essentially ignores the fact that anywhere a considered build is needed, it’s usually done in a team.

This is a bowbear build. A full zerker bow bear, sure, but a bowbear nonetheless.

Obtena.7952:

Despite all the bickering, this is the first build in a guide I have seen that completely disregards the role that Guardians play in the meta; having some level of team support, mostly with boons/defense. I just don’t get the underlying concept of the build, which essentially ignores the fact that anywhere a considered build is needed, it’s usually done in a team.

I’d go even farther by saying that even if Nemesis is simply trying to make the highest DPS guardian build possible regardless of their ‘typical’ role, he seems to overlook the fact that one of the biggest DPS sources for the guardian is through the collective sharing of boons and target de-buffs, not to mention the DPS gained by keeping your teammates alive. Support=DPS much more for guardians than necros, where it’s almost mutually exclusive.

In just the suggestion I gave in my first post the collective DPS goes up 45% by just sacrificing a shorter signet cd and using a focus. And that doesn’t factor in the 6 stacks of AoE Might (the equivalent of 30 stacks when alone) that would also be adding to the collective DPS. So even if damage is the only consideration of this build I’m seeing some uncharacteristic miscalculations.

I think Nemesis unfortunately approached the guardian like it was a necromancer. When you’ve played a necromancer long enough you start to forget what boons even look like, much less the value of sharing them. Every stack of might or retaliation a guardian shares with a group is equal to five times that on an individual, and so needs to be multiplied x5 and then added when calculating DPS.

I believe he’s planning on releasing a follow-up video addressing some of the specific choices he made with the build & comparing weapon damage so we might see it change anyway.

Wasbunny.6531:

I’d go even farther by saying that even if Nemesis is simply trying to make the highest DPS guardian build possible regardless of their ‘typical’ role, he seems to overlook the fact that one of the biggest DPS sources for the guardian is through the collective sharing of boons and target de-buffs, not to mention the DPS gained by keeping your teammates alive. Support=DPS much more for guardians than necros, where it’s almost mutually exclusive.

Perhaps. What is clear from his video’s is his motivation. He was very clear to state that this gives the best combination of highest DPS with survivability. I tend to agree with that statement because camping ranged tends to help avoid hits, aggro, etc… (One of the reasons that I’m against suggestions to give Guardians more ranged weapons, but that’s a different topic)

What would be an interesting rebuttal to this video is if anyone would attempt to provide a bestter survival + DPS build …. with a melee range weapon. I’m not sure how anyone would be able to compare them though.

mahariel.4981:

Do you have obal’s posts set to hidden or something?

Why? Has Obal provided a comparative analysis of optimized DPS + Survival builds at melee and range? I haven’t seen it. I’ve not even seen a build concept like this proposed until now … so Obal probably hasn’t done this. If you know of anyone else that has, please provide the links because I’m interested before I completely dismiss this thinking of what’s being presented here.

I’m pondering the survival value of simply avoiding melee combat … something that no other Guardian builds we are used to take advantage of. Remember, the smite build is selfish but it still dodges and blocks as well as most of the other builds we tend towards and at range … IMO those things increase their survival value alot if any of the other players on your team are melee.

For me the biggest question is why Nemesis feels that, when playing with a team, he requires so much survival by going to range and sacrificing any shred of team support that isn’t already part of the base toolset. …. All this given the fact that even average players can survive with melee, getting similar if not more damage and supporting the team better.

Sword= all the ranged required for most pve. :|

J Eberle.9312:

Sword= all the ranged required for most pve. :|

Not being obtuse here but .. what does that have to do with the thread? Even if we are to interpret this statement as sword being a better DPS weapon, that still doesn’t really have anything to do with Nemesis’ build. His whole premise is that he has optimized DPS and survival. I’m really not sure that the typical Sword builds we are familiar with target those things specifically so the comparison your implying is questionable.

Don’t get me wrong: I’m not defending this build but I am defending the idea that if it is dismissed, it’s for reasons that make some sense.

Obal has provided all that is required for dungeons in his build guide. This build= not even close. It serves one purpose: To lead less knowledgeable people into wasting their time and money on something subpar.

Here is one of his grateful customers from the necro thread.

notabot.3497:

You know what I hate, when I look for a good build for something, seems to make sense, go start building it, then find out its crap. Before I got better at guardian I bought into the knights AH build that was popularized via popular youtube contributer. Yeah, it worked for pugging and I never died ect, but my dmg was terrible and I dragged the team down. Same thing happened before I got better info on the hybrid/dps necromancer video. Didn’t know much about the class so I trusted a popular youtuber… Yeah, build was underwhelming in dungeons and I wasted a fair amount of gold and time (which is a bigger deal than gold) on crap gear.

J Eberle.9312:

Obal has provided all that is required for dungeons in his build guide.

That’s nice but that’s not really a discussion related to the thread. I don’t think many people will disagree with the general feeling on the build and it’s certainly not a podium for being being beaten over the head by more “DPS for PVE” campaign rhetoric again.

The build and the guide presents some very interesting questions that shouldn’t be so quickly dismissed by anyone interested in a deeper understanding of the class.

What makes this build so bad is actually an interesting question. Also, what IS the minimum amount of support should a Guardian build have before it’s considered bad …. just like you and your friends think the answer to “the minimum amount of damage a Guardian build should have before it’s bad” is “as much as you can get”. The other interesting thing about the guide is his approach to actually making this build. It makes me wonder if there is actually a ‘bad’ approach to make a build? Are there fundamental things for certain classes that should be AVOIDED when making a build (like survival on Guardian?)

Tons of stuff to talk about.

Who is this Nemesis guy anyway? I’m not up to date on your internet celebrity personalities. All I can figure out about him is that he plays necromancer and made a video and/or guide for it at some point?

Nemesis.8593:

The entire game is filled with speed killing elite wannabe’s that die every 10 seconds, and flame and blame it on everyone else. They do that because they copy what they saw someone else do… they saw big numbers not understanding why or how… they drolled, they copied and they use it wrongly with the wrong people which is bad for everyone.

And of course they are never to blame even though they are more downed then alive… how could they, after all they copied the guy that did 54000 whirling wrath by exploiting the bug, with a perfect party composition…

I thought my guide was pretty thorough but I guess not. The builds I offer and I summed up are ones the community has deemed good with all the right support and how to use it. They aren’t even my builds and I took no credit.

I’m not really sure why he would say he doesn’t know the class well and make a guide to show it. I’m not sure why he continues to say negative things about the community as well as the stuff I had out there just simply showing numbers and how much DPS a guardian can do. Making a build guide tailored for pugging that has no support to the group is detrimental to pugs.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Who is this Nemesis guy anyway?

He’s pretty well known on the Necromancer forums I believe. His Necro guide.

He’s been a GW2 youtuber for about a year now (recently had his anniversary). He has about 10,000 subscribers and mainly does hardcore stuff; like PvP and Fractals. He likes to thoerycraft and has done builds videos on Necro (his main), Mesmer, and now the Guardian.

Scepter suffers a large dps loss purely by not being in range for friendly banners, fgj, might blast finishers etc.

I know we all hate on staff but the dps is actually fairly similar if you discount smite. Larger aoe, more convenient range, better burst with symbol.

Look, if you want to do a build that offers zero support to the group, why not run elementalist or thief ? they both offer vastly higher dps than guardian or any other classes and the case of elementalist if you really want to range staff builds are the strongest ranged dps of the game. And you’ll still do more support in the form of giving a couple might stacks and fury than whatever that scepter torch guardian can do.

This build is trying to do something the guardian class just wasn’t designed for. There is no point in bringing a guardian if you don’t take the bare minimum of support expected from the class. Other classes are better picks for raw damage and offensive support.

finally, its disgusting reading all the wannabe-elitists comments in this thread mostly from people who follow mindless the ‘meta-super-elitist-guide with 1% mo dmg than others’ after another while being way to closeminded to adjust according their own playstyle. Yey, Lemming-Power and the people are proud of it, congratulation!

Of course the PvE Part of GW2 is soooo difficult that min-max is a absolutly must-have…. maybe fractals >40, but for every other part of PvE its simply ridiculous.

spoj.9672:

blutstein.2468:

finally, its disgusting reading all the wannabe-elitists comments in this thread mostly from people who follow mindless the ‘meta-super-elitist-guide with 1% mo dmg than others’ after another while being way to closeminded to adjust according their own playstyle. Yey, Lemming-Power and the people are proud of it, congratulation!

Of course the PvE Part of GW2 is soooo difficult that min-max is a absolutly must-have…. maybe fractals >40, but for every other part of PvE its simply ridiculous.

I think your signature sums up this post quite nicely.

so you don’t like cats?

what a worthless build. weak support and not even superior DPS to the present meta builds.

please don’t use this.

blutstein.2468:

finally, its disgusting reading all the wannabe-elitists comments in this thread mostly from people who follow mindless the ‘meta-super-elitist-guide with 1% mo dmg than others’ after another while being way to closeminded to adjust according their own playstyle. Yey, Lemming-Power and the people are proud of it, congratulation!

Of course the PvE Part of GW2 is soooo difficult that min-max is a absolutly must-have…. maybe fractals >40, but for every other part of PvE its simply ridiculous.

Well if it was just 1 percent I could see some point to this. But its not. Also when you get to the high tiers of dps increasing damage percent is huge. Increasing performance by 10 percent isn’t a big increase when you are playing a cleric or bear bow, but it is when you are zerk/assassin.

Yeah, PVE is mostly face roll easy (yet I see the wvw players downed tanking with their not right for pve builds and elitist attitudes against pve…), but I pug a fair amount and many groups I play in don’t bring enough dps/part coordination. They rely on my guardian’s blinds/reflect/aegis and superior dps (to their builds, I haven’t nailed the perfect rotation yet) to get through content smoothly. I know this because when I mess up the entire party downs quickly, or if I down and they survive somehow (probably due to being defensive statted) party dps plummets to near zero even if they don’t go and res me. I’ve even seen the CoF path 1 boss actually start regening with 4 of them attacking (i had a weird lag problem where I could receive data but not send somehow, it was like spectator mode for like 15 seconds).

I bring my best because I can’t count on others being able to.

obal.3218:

I’m not sure why he continues to say negative things about the community as well as the stuff I had out there just simply showing numbers and how much DPS a guardian can do.

Because some of the PvE community have an elitest attitude? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and especially quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. I’m not sure why people can’t be more constructive in their criticism vs being destructive. To me, it shows their maturity.

Don’t take that personally Obal, because it’s not aimed at you specifically, but I can certainly see why some people in the community like Nemesis feel that way.

Now, back on the topic, and I’ll preface this with acknowledging that I have not watched the video, would this build be good if the intention for this build was to focus solo on the bosses while the rest of the team stay near him and also stay at range? What if there are other party members doing the team support instead of him? There are other classes that can do just as much support as a Guardian if not better. Also, thoughts about other applications such as PvP or WvW? This is probably reaching for straws, but perhaps these things are something that could be considered?

@fadeaway, I don’t see how you can completely discount Smite. It’s got a short CD, so you can put it down fairly often.

Meta builds can solo just fine. And if a guardian is going DPS, again, roll the meta and go SY, retreat and bane signet for the power, SY boons which will proc I believe 8%+ from POTV and retreat to keep unscathed contender up.

There is literally nothing going for this build, it’s complete and utter trash.

I look at it like this: At least it does damage.

Guy is advertising a better build than most of the other ones that float around. Would rather run into a PUG using something like this, than the typical full cleric/celestial one(s).

Exactly. 2 seconds less on the reflect and 8 seconds longer cooldown, and 3 x condition removal every half minute or so isn’t going to ruin my pug.

A pvt altruistic healing Guardian might do.

J Eberle.9312:

Obal has provided all that is required for dungeons in his build guide. This build= not even close. It serves one purpose: To lead less knowledgeable people into wasting their time and money on something subpar.

Here is one of his grateful customers from the necro thread.

notabot.3497:

You know what I hate, when I look for a good build for something, seems to make sense, go start building it, then find out its crap. Before I got better at guardian I bought into the knights AH build that was popularized via popular youtube contributer. Yeah, it worked for pugging and I never died ect, but my dmg was terrible and I dragged the team down. Same thing happened before I got better info on the hybrid/dps necromancer video. Didn’t know much about the class so I trusted a popular youtuber… Yeah, build was underwhelming in dungeons and I wasted a fair amount of gold and time (which is a bigger deal than gold) on crap gear.

In all fairness, Nemesis contributed a lot to the theory-crafting and discussion about the Necromancer. This and his efforts must be appreciated.
It is also true that, in my humble opinion, he tries to think out of the box and to unveil “undiscovered marvels”, which sometimes are not undiscovered, they are just sub-optimal.
In a game like GW2, where in fact you can play a variety of styles/builds, there is always fertile ground for new proposals/ideas. Nonetheless, I play this game (as any other) trying to be as effective as possible and, in doing this, I have fun. People think differently, and may argue that their way to have fun is different and they want to play how they want…it sounds fair to me, but do not join my party, please.

In brief: I am thankful to Nemesis once again for his efforts, I just hope not to find guardians in my party with his build.

I try to come up with unorthodox stuff all the time but I at least try to make sure there are valid reasons to run it over what is considered meta. Check out my warrior build on Guru or something, you’ll see what I mean. This is basically a “different just to be hipster” build which is why it’s getting so much flak.

On an unrelated note, anet just added a profession balance forum, might be fun.

“On an unrelated note, anet just added a profession balance forum, might be fun”

Doubtful.

I don’t think his intention is to be hipster. He thinks that this is the best solo DPS, without relying on anyone else. I am unable to defend any build really but I run pugs all the time and it’s hard to find a pug you can rely on to give you might, healing, fury, etc.

Why all the hate here? I actually found this build really refreshing. Gave it a shot today, and rediscovered my Guardian entirely …

Honestly, I don’t really know if a hammer a GS or a Scepter is 0.5252895 second fastest than the others, but I have fun using this build and I think it works great…. It provides enough survivability [Surprisingly enough… I didn’t struggle keeping myself alive at all] while still putting out really good damage

I think Nemesis has created an awesome build, even if it does lack the support part….
And he even brought some pretty spectacular results to back him up, some I’m not sure why all the hate here….

I should probably say I’m relatively new to the game, and unfortunately I’ve been a casual player for the last 2 months, so I’m not talking out of experience or knowledge….

Can anyone explain whats going on here? because personally I was really impressed with the build…. [Btw, I’m not really sure whats the current Guardian Meta …]

SrebX.6498:

Can anyone explain whats going on here? because personally I was really impressed with the build…. [Btw, I’m not really sure whats the current Guardian Meta …]

The current Guardian Meta deals probably 30% more damage while still granting a better variety of support. Thats why noone likes his build.

Molch.2078:

SrebX.6498:

Can anyone explain whats going on here? because personally I was really impressed with the build…. [Btw, I’m not really sure whats the current Guardian Meta …]

The current Guardian Meta deals probably 30% more damage while still granting a better variety of support. Thats why noone likes his build.

I don’t think it’s quite that bad, it’s just that he is breaking something that isn’t broken. He’s basically killing a bunch of useful traits for useless ones and the rest of us are basically left wondering why.

It’s like having a really fast car and taking out half the engines (is that how cars work? I dunno) just for the hell of it. It’ll still be fast compared to your average clunker but you really had no reason to screw with it in the first place.

Then let it be 10%. I don’t know. It doesnt matter.
(Just change assassins and accuracy to bloodlust, berserker and force, and you’ll do ~5% more dmg.)

My intention is the same thing guang just said.

Molch.2078:

SrebX.6498:

Can anyone explain whats going on here? because personally I was really impressed with the build…. [Btw, I’m not really sure whats the current Guardian Meta …]

The current Guardian Meta deals probably 30% more damage while still granting a better variety of support. Thats why noone likes his build.

Do you have an example for a current Meta build and perhaps a demonstration?

SrebX.6498:

Molch.2078:

SrebX.6498:

Can anyone explain whats going on here? because personally I was really impressed with the build…. [Btw, I’m not really sure whats the current Guardian Meta …]

The current Guardian Meta deals probably 30% more damage while still granting a better variety of support. Thats why noone likes his build.

Do you have an example for a current Meta build and perhaps a demonstration?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guide-DPS-Guardian-for-PVE/first

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I try to come up with unorthodox stuff all the time but I at least try to make sure there are valid reasons to run it over what is considered meta. Check out my warrior build on Guru or something, you’ll see what I mean. This is basically a “different just to be hipster” build which is why it’s getting so much flak.

On an unrelated note, anet just added a profession balance forum, might be fun.

Well, by the standards set in this thread then, you’re a blight to the Warrior community by putting the build on Guru.

Nemesis is known for making extremely well thought out necromancer guides. He applies the scientific method to his theory-crafting by hypothesizing, testing, and showing proof of concept. He clearly states the intention of each build at the beginning of each video, his motto being ‘There is no best build, only best at.’ and goes on at length (and I mean at length) to support his conclusions. He’s not afraid to ‘think outside the box’ or violate any longstanding meta for fear of ruffling any feathers. His approach is usually creative and scientific and he does it for the game and the community.

That being said, while I’ve found little to disagree with related to his past necromancer videos I think he made some rare and major miscalculations regarding his ‘Smite’ guardian build. The stated purpose of that build being basically the highest overall DPS possible by any means necessary. I simply don’t think this is the case with this build.

I think the main problem with his theory of a semi-ranged non boon sharing DPS guardian being the highest DPS possible stems from his experience as a necro. Boon sharing is non-existent for necros so is never taken into consideration when calculating their overall damage potential. For guardians almost the opposite is true.

The main errors that were made when calculating the build’s damage were ignoring the following principles when calculating DPS contribution.

• Any damage enhancing boons like Might that are supplied to the party must be multiplied by the number of party members and then added to the total DPS of the player supplying them. Example: 5 stacks of Might supplied to 5 players is equal to 25 stacks of Might on a single player.

• Percentage damage increase conditions like Vulnerability that are put on the target must be multiplied by the number of party members attacking the target and then added to the total DPS of the player that supplied it. Example: 5 stacks of vulnerability applied to a target being attacked by 5 people is equal to 25% overall damage increase, or a target with 25 stacks of Vulnerability being attacked by a single player.

• For boons to be shared you need to be near the group, usually not at range.

• To stay at range you either must be in a group or have consistent ‘gap-distancing’ abilities like knockbacks or leapbacks.

I’m finding that when these overlooked calculations are added into the equation the ‘Smite’ build is not what Nemesis stated it to be as the guardian build with the highest DPS and DPS uptime. With just a couple small changes in traits and weapon choices the damage and support / survivability go dramatically up. Mathematically with guardians, more than with any other profession, Support = DPS.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I try to come up with unorthodox stuff all the time but I at least try to make sure there are valid reasons to run it over what is considered meta. Check out my warrior build on Guru or something, you’ll see what I mean. This is basically a “different just to be hipster” build which is why it’s getting so much flak.

On an unrelated note, anet just added a profession balance forum, might be fun.

Well, by the standards set in this thread then, you’re a blight to the Warrior community by putting the build on Guru.

There is a vast difference between GK’s EA warrior build and this scepter torch nonsense. Where GK deviates from the meta he does so to increase efficiency in another, also useful, area. Where Nemesis deviates from the meta he does so to no advantage and in an extremely capricious manner.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I try to come up with unorthodox stuff all the time but I at least try to make sure there are valid reasons to run it over what is considered meta. Check out my warrior build on Guru or something, you’ll see what I mean. This is basically a “different just to be hipster” build which is why it’s getting so much flak.

On an unrelated note, anet just added a profession balance forum, might be fun.

Well, by the standards set in this thread then, you’re a blight to the Warrior community by putting the build on Guru.

There is a vast difference between GK’s EA warrior build and this scepter torch nonsense. Where GK deviates from the meta he does so to increase efficiency in another, also useful, area. Where Nemesis deviates from the meta he does so to no advantage and in an extremely capricious manner.

No, no, no, if it’s not meta, its substandard.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I try to come up with unorthodox stuff all the time but I at least try to make sure there are valid reasons to run it over what is considered meta. Check out my warrior build on Guru or something, you’ll see what I mean. This is basically a “different just to be hipster” build which is why it’s getting so much flak.

On an unrelated note, anet just added a profession balance forum, might be fun.

Well, by the standards set in this thread then, you’re a blight to the Warrior community by putting the build on Guru.

There is a vast difference between GK’s EA warrior build and this scepter torch nonsense. Where GK deviates from the meta he does so to increase efficiency in another, also useful, area. Where Nemesis deviates from the meta he does so to no advantage and in an extremely capricious manner.

No, no, no, if it’s not meta, its substandard.

You don’t quite get the concept. This is about usefulness, not loyalty to a meta build. If we found a better build tonight, we’d be using it tomorrow, just as we’ve done in the past. Then that build would be the meta because it would be what we consider peak effectiveness.

If Nemesis’s build delivered, it would be the new meta and we’d be cool with that. DnT, LoD, rT and all the efficiency focused dungeon guilds would switch to it and recommend it with no qualms. I guarantee obal would link it in his sticky, because this is about effectiveness, not some stupid blind loyalty. However, it failed to deliver thus it falls short.

^^ And it’s worth mentioning that Guanglai Kangyi’s builds are good —just not as effective as the meta. His Guardian PUG build is probably better than Nemesis’ because it provides protection and might for the party and it’s just as easy to use: I am a build link

SrebX: if you’re looking for a Berserker build that’s easy to use Guanglai’s Hammer guide is a good place to start: I am a guide link

Wasbunny.6531:

The main errors that were made when calculating the build’s damage were ignoring the following principles when calculating DPS contribution.

I’m pretty sure that Nemesis’ build falls short of being the best DPS build in most cases even when you ignore all this stuff. As long as the target isn’t a single target, doesn’t have a giant hitbox and is immobile, I’d expect the meta to do more DPS. Not to speak of all the support and the possibility of Unscathed Contender (why does he even ignore that trait in a stupid ranged build?).

People keep talking about support but that isn’t what he was advertising in his build at all. I understand the importance of it but it’s not what he was “building”

A build which offers both worse damage and worse support than the meta is pointless. Especially if it’s supposed to fill the same niche, in this case DPS.

KOPPER.1458:

People keep talking about support but that isn’t what he was advertising in his build at all. I understand the importance of it but it’s not what he was “building”

No one is claiming that he advertised support but didn’t deliver. A huge reason you bring guardian is for the unique support. The meta beats Nemesis build in support AND damage.