Guild Wars 2

Foefaller.1082:

Vizardlorde.8243:

Or you know the thief could dodge through the 4 traps once and kill the guardian. If the thief is carrying a sword he can even ignore DM with shadow return lol. The trick might work once in a match but after they know you are not a meditation guardian you are as good as dead if you are running zerker.

This might be true if all the DH traps pulsed once ala necro marks and almost every currently existing trap skill and that’s the end of it, but they don’t. Light’s Judgement keeps pulsing 25 vuln stacks and revealed for 10 second, Procession of Blades strikes multiple times before disappearing, Fragments of Faith leaves behind pickups you can run over for aegis, Dragon’s Maw leaves a ring of Warding, and it isn’t triggering Test of Faith that does damage, it’s trying to walk out of the area after it’s been triggered. That leaves just the Heal trap, which would still heal the Dragonhunter by at least 6k once someone triggers it.

This makes for some interesting points.

• DM trap may not be dodgeable even if you know where it is.
• Players will need Stability or a Teleport to get out of DM once it procs.

I see it being powerful against classes with little to no stability or teleport options. I also see it as a wasted elite for players who do.

Thanks for the correction, DM does have a Slow. I was distracted with the poor performance of the trap in the stream at the time that I failed to notice its perks.

This is confusing. You either get a power creep and cry or cry about the update being a sidegrade. Some even go as far as to call it underpowered because it doesn’t fit their bunker guard that does 0 damage to begin with and is usually tied down to staff/x.

Ive played all of the guard builds and can already come up with some really cool builds that mix the core and DH together. How they’ll fair depends on what the coming elites look like, but I’m fairly confident in DH whooping some serious kitten vs reaper/chron

Honestly I’m perfectly fine with it being a sidegrade as I think all elitespecs should be. Im just letting people know that expecting the traps to be amazing in pvp is setting yourself up for disappointment. Traits could be refined but even if they launched as what they showed us it would be ok for the most part.

I can see traps working brilliantly in PVE and WvW, pvp probably ok in hotjoins and SHold. At least we didn’t get the necro shouts that are useless under realistic conditions and strong in a situation where you are assured to die. They also got the most insulting might generating skill in the game (4-20 stacks of might for 4 seconds on a 25 sec cooldown) Greatsword AA gives longer might…

Even in conquest, just one duration trap (the meat grinder or Jesus beam) will be sufficient to make their presence known. Even Blade Barrier will work well if you place the outline of the trap to cross through the middle of the contest point. That’s a technique used by hybrid guardians running purging flames, as the mechanics are interchangeable. Fragments of faith also pairs well with any aegis trait, and could be the basis of some interesting playstyles. DM is basically LB5 without needing the longbow, and you could even pop that mid fight after someone has used their escape options to control the fight for point.

Just because necro shouts are best use with 5 enemies doesn’t mean it has to be a 1v5. You could have 4 allies with you. They also, as of the current information, have other, nasty ways to gain much longer lasting might, a la spamming ds1 and hitting chilled enemies. All the elite specs should be interesting, and I’ve basically reserved at least one of each profession to take advantage of them. Some builds might even double dip depending on what exactly is offered.

Ragnarox.9601:

Static npc thief for showing pvp trap skills?
That warrior in stream is bad….only one trap in pvp? GG

You saw dragonhunter with below mediocre warrior, what about skilled players??

Overall….bad. 2/10 (viable in pve)

with this 6/6/6 they destroyed most of our usefull builds like
2/1/6/1/4
0/1/6/6/1

You won’t be able to slot in more than one trap if you want to stay viable in PvP, so at least they were playing the real build.

Going 00666 for bunker is actually a really huge buff.

Yea, I don’t know why people are under the impression that you HAVE to run five traps. This isn’t medi, try mixing and matching kitten lol.

Right now my sPvP Dragonhunter build is shaping up to carry Light’s Judgment as my area-denial tool (to be pre-cast in narrow passages or on point) and Fragments of Faith as my mid-brawl cast to score a chain of Aegis block/triggers. Getting the Virtue of Justice burn 5-6 times in a row (step on a shard, burn, step on the next shard, burn, step on the third shard, burn…) seems like the only way to make Defender’s Dogma pay off big time.

The only serious downside is the spec has no native CC break, so unless a trap gains that or a trait adds it to all traps, the third utility slot is going to be a non-trap chosen to address that deficiency. And the Elite is still going to be stay Renewal because invulnerability and virtue reset still beats a dragon eating your foes (no matter how cool that might look…).

Consider zeal and/or honor lines. Zeal offers retal and damage on aegis, while honor offers a heal on aegis and shouts, allowing you to take advantage of SYG as stab and stun break, perhaps even Healing Breeze depending on how it interacts with the trait. It really seems like Frag is going to be your heavy use utility in battle, so might as well make the most of it. Virtues also seems like an option, and although it doesn’t necessarily mesh with aegis the best (or maybe unscathed contender is sufficient for a different purpose), you do get a condition cleanse and stun break/stab out of it.

The reaction of some people to the stream is quite amusing…

First, they didn’t intend to show high level play. It was to show the skills in a non-test-dummy environment. Regardless of their performance we can still draw some conclusions. It also didn’t matter much the Thief didn’t fight back because it was more about seeing the potential of the new Traps.

Second, how can anyone assume that Traps or DH are supposed to replace the current meta? One the one hand, Meditations quite obviously cater a totally different role and playstyle, on the other hand it would be extremly bad if DH automatically replaced currently strong builds.

What I got from the stream:

• There will be situations where I personally want to use the Longbow. But it might not be in Conquest PvP. Maybe more so in Stronghold or WvW.
• 2 Traps (Test of Faith plus any of the two damaging Traps) will be a pain in Conquest for decapping squishy Roamers even if the Guardian is not on the cap point. Even without having the Trap trait.
• They didn’t show it – and I personally didn’t think much about it before the stream – but Test of Faith will be a drag on Temple or Khylo where you can pre-ward the entrance to cap points. Should also be annoying as hell if you’d block the stairs on Foefire or the small doorway on Forest.
• Wings of Resolve and Shield or Courage are indeed awesome.

Lol even worse than I expected. Gj Anet. Not sure you could have designed a more lame class if you tried.

Sylent.3165:

So don’t play it problem solved for you and the people that want to play dh. I think the class looks great, I’ll play it. You don’t like it? Don’t play it. Everyone is happy

No it is problem compounded. The game has been very stale and Guardian the stalest and needs a boost. Anets solution – introduce an ineffective elite class that you can’t even play cause its so ineffective.

Relentliss.2170:

Sylent.3165:

So don’t play it problem solved for you and the people that want to play dh. I think the class looks great, I’ll play it. You don’t like it? Don’t play it. Everyone is happy

No it is problem compounded. The game has been very stale and Guardian the stalest and needs a boost. Anets solution – introduce an ineffective elite class that you can’t even play cause its so ineffective.

May I ask you in which way the Dragonhunter is ineffective and why guardians need a boost? As far as I know guardians are part of the meta throughout every single game mode. I understand the dragonhunter elite specialization may not live up to everyone’s expectations but to say that guardians need a boost is something I can’t wrap my head around.

The purpose of the dragonhunter in PvP is obvious. Playing with traps, knockbacks and cripple are aimed at territory control. For a PvP game mode that is all about having all nodes under control I don’t see how this elite specialization is remotely ineffective. You might be right that it is inefficient for running around and killing people. Nevertheless, the dragonhunter’s effectiveness comes into play in PvP with the right team set-up and focusing on the goal of conquest.

@ Noah

Think he means that compared to other skills in allot of areas traps are just underwhelming.

There is also the fact that they have such long cool downs (something guardian already had enough of)

Lastly here is also the fact that you never want to use more then one on your skill bar because doing so means you lose self sustain, stability, condition cleanse etc… for damage that can be easily avoided by dodging.

Pitman.9210:

He had 17k hp in the video. What amulet was he using? That seems a little bit high even for zerker.

They got rid of stats being tied to trait lines so it’s anybodies guess.

They haven’t said weather they are just baking the extra stats into the amulets or giving them gems or a secondary piece to equip.

Until they tell us specifics there is just no way of knowing because that’s a good 800 or so stat points that we don’t know what is being done with.

Arken.3725:

I don’t think that Shield of Courage actually blocks but rather just destroys, maybe i’m missing something. Also the potential strafing of the LB auto is worrisome as well. I don’t think the new elite will replace RF, it’s too niche. Also, the remark of nerfing the immobilization was surprising to hear.

This worries me as well.

Given the cool down shield of courage has you would at least think they would make it count as a block or heck even a reflect.

And the cool down on wings of resolve is also quite lengthly, I mean 60 second Cd for a 3 second immobilize ? If they nerf the immobilize then they better lower the CD or nobody will want to use it.

Relentliss.2170:

Lol even worse than I expected. Gj Anet. Not sure you could have designed a more lame class if you tried.

besides the dev that played hambow did a few(but huge) mistakes, they were not showing a true performance in DH pvp, just an idea of how could it be used, but imo, in a real spvp tpvp IMO would be far inferior than the video, i noticed several easy counters to traps and and probably to the class, , but i fear specter/ofhhand still far superior to bow.

i still have the idea that players wanted the bow in guardian just to be another pew pew zerker ranger outside pvp.

Dirame.8521:

Black Box.9312:

The bow looks neat. I found it funny that the only trap he used in the warrior duel was the elite trap, and how incredibly ineffective it ended up being.

Overall, still not impressed. I’m really bummed that we won’t be able to just take the bow and leave the elite spec in the dust, because I have no interest in the traps or traits.

Ineffective? He used it at several good moments that saved him from getting pummeled. Don’t let your judgement be clouded by the rest of the video being unimpressive.

I know we all wanted to see something that we couldn’t possibly come up with but I think that’s really up to us find out when the expansion launches.

Every time he used it the warrior did exactly what you’d expect: He used a stunbreak and walked right out of it just fine. It’s just not going to outclass Renewed Focus, and none of the traps are going to outclass meditations. They just have no chance.

It wasn’t meant to simulate high level play? Does that mean that it’s safe to assume that traps will be even more underwhelming against players that actually know how to play the game?

Saiyan.1704:

Foefaller.1082:

Vizardlorde.8243:

Or you know the thief could dodge through the 4 traps once and kill the guardian. If the thief is carrying a sword he can even ignore DM with shadow return lol. The trick might work once in a match but after they know you are not a meditation guardian you are as good as dead if you are running zerker.

This might be true if all the DH traps pulsed once ala necro marks and almost every currently existing trap skill and that’s the end of it, but they don’t. Light’s Judgement keeps pulsing 25 vuln stacks and revealed for 10 second, Procession of Blades strikes multiple times before disappearing, Fragments of Faith leaves behind pickups you can run over for aegis, Dragon’s Maw leaves a ring of Warding, and it isn’t triggering Test of Faith that does damage, it’s trying to walk out of the area after it’s been triggered. That leaves just the Heal trap, which would still heal the Dragonhunter by at least 6k once someone triggers it.

This makes for some interesting points.

• DM trap may not be dodgeable even if you know where it is.
• Players will need Stability or a Teleport to get out of DM once it procs.

I see it being powerful against classes with little to no stability or teleport options. I also see it as a wasted elite for players who do.

Thanks for the correction, DM does have a Slow. I was distracted with the poor performance of the trap in the stream at the time that I failed to notice its perks.

So basically, if Light’s Judgment is the anti-Thief trap with the pulsing Revealed, then Dragon’s Maw is the anti-Engineer trap with the Ring of Warding that pops even if they roll through it?

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

@ Noah

Think he means that compared to other skills in allot of areas traps are just underwhelming.

There is also the fact that they have such long cool downs (something guardian already had enough of)

Lastly here is also the fact that you never want to use more then one on your skill bar because doing so means you lose self sustain, stability, condition cleanse etc… for damage that can be easily avoided by dodging.

I partially agree with you. It would be nice if the dragonhunter traits offered more sustainability. One of those changes I envision is to change one of the adept trait to allow traps to transfer your conditions to enemies. Stability is already almost permanent if you use Hunter’s determination so I don’t see how we need more of that.

Other than the dragonhunter elite specialization players can still invest in two other specializations. By investing into the Virtues traitline there is enough opportunities to get condition removal, stability and stunbreaks.

Foefaller.1082:

Saiyan.1704:

Foefaller.1082:

Vizardlorde.8243:

Or you know the thief could dodge through the 4 traps once and kill the guardian. If the thief is carrying a sword he can even ignore DM with shadow return lol. The trick might work once in a match but after they know you are not a meditation guardian you are as good as dead if you are running zerker.

This might be true if all the DH traps pulsed once ala necro marks and almost every currently existing trap skill and that’s the end of it, but they don’t. Light’s Judgement keeps pulsing 25 vuln stacks and revealed for 10 second, Procession of Blades strikes multiple times before disappearing, Fragments of Faith leaves behind pickups you can run over for aegis, Dragon’s Maw leaves a ring of Warding, and it isn’t triggering Test of Faith that does damage, it’s trying to walk out of the area after it’s been triggered. That leaves just the Heal trap, which would still heal the Dragonhunter by at least 6k once someone triggers it.

This makes for some interesting points.

• DM trap may not be dodgeable even if you know where it is.
• Players will need Stability or a Teleport to get out of DM once it procs.

I see it being powerful against classes with little to no stability or teleport options. I also see it as a wasted elite for players who do.

Thanks for the correction, DM does have a Slow. I was distracted with the poor performance of the trap in the stream at the time that I failed to notice its perks.

So basically, if Light’s Judgment is the anti-Thief trap with the pulsing Revealed, then Dragon’s Maw is the anti-Engineer trap with the Ring of Warding that pops even if they roll through it?

How is DM the anti engi? ill just keep at nade range or use flamethrower, isnt maw placed aoe near guardian place? can be noticed by sound and animation?

Relentliss.2170:

Lol even worse than I expected. Gj Anet. Not sure you could have designed a more lame class if you tried.

Relentliss.2170:

No it is problem compounded. The game has been very stale and Guardian the stalest and needs a boost. Anets solution – introduce an ineffective elite class that you can’t even play cause its so ineffective.

You’re going to find a lot of people who didagree. I was sold by the change in virtues alone. I’m skeptical of a couple of mechanics like F3 shield destroying projectiles instead of blocking them and whether or not DM will be effective at all. But overall, I liked what I saw. As did others.

Care to make some points as to why DH is inferior instead of saying it visually doesn’t appeal to you? Since you’ve played hybrid guardian before, 2k trap bleeds and 5k burn ticks sounds like it would apeal to you.

Saiyan.1704:

Relentliss.2170:

Lol even worse than I expected. Gj Anet. Not sure you could have designed a more lame class if you tried.

Relentliss.2170:

No it is problem compounded. The game has been very stale and Guardian the stalest and needs a boost. Anets solution – introduce an ineffective elite class that you can’t even play cause its so ineffective.

You’re going to find a lot of people who didagree. I was sold by the change in virtues alone. I’m skeptical of a couple of mechanics like F3 shield destroying projectiles instead of blocking them and whether or not DM will be effective at all. But overall, I liked what I saw. As did others.

Care to make some points as to why DH is inferior instead of saying it visually doesn’t appeal to you? Since you’ve played hybrid guardian before, 2k trap bleeds and 5k burn ticks sounds like it would apeal to you.

Im not sold on the condition numbers, they seem too good to be true, especially with how burn ticks for 1-2k in condi builds now and theirs is ticking for 5k.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Saiyan.1704:

Relentliss.2170:

Lol even worse than I expected. Gj Anet. Not sure you could have designed a more lame class if you tried.

Relentliss.2170:

No it is problem compounded. The game has been very stale and Guardian the stalest and needs a boost. Anets solution – introduce an ineffective elite class that you can’t even play cause its so ineffective.

You’re going to find a lot of people who didagree. I was sold by the change in virtues alone. I’m skeptical of a couple of mechanics like F3 shield destroying projectiles instead of blocking them and whether or not DM will be effective at all. But overall, I liked what I saw. As did others.

Care to make some points as to why DH is inferior instead of saying it visually doesn’t appeal to you? Since you’ve played hybrid guardian before, 2k trap bleeds and 5k burn ticks sounds like it would apeal to you.

Im not sold on the condition numbers, they seem too good to be true, especially with how burn ticks for 1-2k in condi builds now and theirs is ticking for 5k.

the burning scale with intensity so if you manage to put 7-8 stacks of burning (as guardian with blocks and skills its easy) you can have 4-5k dps for short time and an average of 2-3k dps unless you enemy dont have any cleanse left then you can go even higher

regarding bleeding . now with geomancy sigil i can get 6 stacks so with 1 traps if i manage to immobilize my target on the trap it can be 16 stacks but if he dodges it 0 stacks . dont see the point on the condi guard
if anet wants to see more hybrid or condi guard they needs more condi abilities with chill, cripple, and torment to cover our burning
else it will be the same as of today small niche (very small)

If a condition that normally did 1k dps average is now doing 3k dps average something is seriously wrong or condi engineers and rangers are going to have ridiculous dps.

Vizardlorde.8243:

If a condition that normally did 1k dps average is now doing 3k dps average something is seriously wrong or condi engineers and rangers are going to have ridiculous dps.

Eh not really.

If you look at the ways guardian applies burning they have lots of ways to apply short duration burns.

Engineer mostly deals with long duration burns via the trait which has a 10 second CD. Though they do have some short duration burns via flame thrower & flame turret.

Ranger mainly applies burns via their spirit & torch. So yea if you stand near their spirit or in the aoe burn the torch applies then it will stack up. Otherwise you would need to be focus fired by several ppl when their spirit is up.

Personally I’m more worried about D/D ele, they have a rather good way to stack burns (at least short duration ones) via drakes breath.
Add that to traits and other means of applying burning and they could deal some nasty condition damage.

We didn’t see the warrior use combustive shot at all did we? Some hambow warrior he was…

Vizardlorde.8243:

Im not sold on the condition numbers, they seem too good to be true, especially with how burn ticks for 1-2k in condi builds now and theirs is ticking for 5k.

Actually, I don’t think the numbers will change much at all. That 5k burns and 2k bleeds were done out of condition stacking; condition applications. Exaust the Guardian’s virtues and skill utilities via cleanses and we’ll be done for.

Black Box.9312:

It wasn’t meant to simulate high level play? Does that mean that it’s safe to assume that traps will be even more underwhelming against players that actually know how to play the game?

Yes………….

Aeolus.3615:

How is DM the anti engi? ill just keep at nade range or use flamethrower, isnt maw placed aoe near guardian place? can be noticed by sound and animation?

Because engineers don’t have a lot of stability, and the Maw is a ward, not just a stun. Nade range is 900 while scepter or longbow is 1200 and flamethrower is even less. Traps are invisible to enemy players (I don’t understand why so many people forget, it’s not like the mechanics have changed ever) so you won’t know what is there until you’ve already activated the trap, and I doubt the majority of players can reactively dodge on a half second activation, particularly when the animations aren’t instant either.

The GOOD Dragonhunter players are going to be the ones who can not only place their traps in strategically unavoidable spots but also master time-on-target fire of the Longbow 5 skill so its nails you in place just as you put one toe over the trigger line of their traps.

(I also like the threat of being able to drop traps mid-combat and the other player sees it and now knows, ‘step there and bad things happen.’ They won’t know which trap it is, so do they risk it or do they concede that space to you? Unlike marks they aren’t labeled even if you know they are there…)

Scepter’s ranged root is also going to be a nasty compliment to trapper gameplay and is another weapon that actually benefits from the Pure of Sight minor trait. If they do any sort of review to improve its auto-attack, we’re going to see “scepter-hunters” a lot.

And as much as people hate spirit weapons, sending the sword/hammer out is about the only attacks we have that’ll reach as far as the bow. And both hit pretty hard when someone is unable to move away… Longbow 1 & 5 again…

Saiyan.1704:

Vizardlorde.8243:

Im not sold on the condition numbers, they seem too good to be true, especially with how burn ticks for 1-2k in condi builds now and theirs is ticking for 5k.

Actually, I don’t think the numbers will change much at all. That 5k burns and 2k bleeds were done out of condition stacking; condition applications. Exaust the Guardian’s virtues and skill utilities via cleanses and we’ll be done for.

the numbers are gonna change as no 25 stacks limits so ppl can stacks above that

consider 2 LB rangers which can do 30-40 vulnerability while their thief finished the target
consider condi necro and sb ranger doing nice bleeding stacks poison and burning
consider 2 mtd mesmer stacking above 25 torment and confusion …
conditions are gonna be much worse now if apply by smart players
also power builds get buffed too with dmg modifier and trait ability combined
thus its hard for me to see how we can manage now to protect from being burst is 1 sec or getting 20 burning stacks , or 25 torment, or 30 bleeding

Well you’re talking about team coordination, which is exactly what anet is aiming for iirc. The same could be said about a reaper and a dragonhunter timing their kitten so that any thieves that may try to stealth gank the reaper get whiffed and essentially oneshotted thanks to the insta 25 vuln. I will say though that conditions will need a whole lot of fixing lest they absolutely dominate power builds.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Aeolus.3615:

How is DM the anti engi? ill just keep at nade range or use flamethrower, isnt maw placed aoe near guardian place? can be noticed by sound and animation?

Because engineers don’t have a lot of stability, and the Maw is a ward, not just a stun. Nade range is 900 while scepter or longbow is 1200 and flamethrower is even less. Traps are invisible to enemy players (I don’t understand why so many people forget, it’s not like the mechanics have changed ever) so you won’t know what is there until you’ve already activated the trap, and I doubt the majority of players can reactively dodge on a half second activation, particularly when the animations aren’t instant either.

You mean reliable range right? cause AFAIK nades are 1500 range traited but only work effectively on large targets like jormag cause of the spread.

Vizardlorde.8243:

You mean reliable range right? cause AFAIK nades are 1500 range traited but only work effectively on large targets like jormag cause of the spread.

Isn’t grenade range being reduced for HoT?

messiah.1908:

Saiyan.1704:

Vizardlorde.8243:

Im not sold on the condition numbers, they seem too good to be true, especially with how burn ticks for 1-2k in condi builds now and theirs is ticking for 5k.

Actually, I don’t think the numbers will change much at all. That 5k burns and 2k bleeds were done out of condition stacking; condition applications. Exaust the Guardian’s virtues and skill utilities via cleanses and we’ll be done for.

the numbers are gonna change as no 25 stacks limits so ppl can stacks above that

consider 2 LB rangers which can do 30-40 vulnerability while their thief finished the target
consider condi necro and sb ranger doing nice bleeding stacks poison and burning
consider 2 mtd mesmer stacking above 25 torment and confusion …
conditions are gonna be much worse now if apply by smart players
also power builds get buffed too with dmg modifier and trait ability combined
thus its hard for me to see how we can manage now to protect from being burst is 1 sec or getting 20 burning stacks , or 25 torment, or 30 bleeding

I share your concerns regarding condi damage spike potential for sure. But Condi teams still require a whole lot more coordination and focus targeting abilities than self-sustain, low maintanence builds.
Cleanses completely kill condition builds while Celestials hybrids; if their conditions don’t put out, can rely on raw damage.

To be honest, three celestial classes poses more if a thread than 2 condi torment Mesmers or poison stacking Rangers.

I’m curious if a Condi could actually replace a Zerker dps class; or even a cele, given condi having great node-assaulting/node-defending roles. Current hybrid Guardians are great at these roles but not so much everywhere else. I fear the meta wont need a condi class at all.

Saiyan.1704:

messiah.1908:

Saiyan.1704:

Vizardlorde.8243:

Im not sold on the condition numbers, they seem too good to be true, especially with how burn ticks for 1-2k in condi builds now and theirs is ticking for 5k.

Actually, I don’t think the numbers will change much at all. That 5k burns and 2k bleeds were done out of condition stacking; condition applications. Exaust the Guardian’s virtues and skill utilities via cleanses and we’ll be done for.

the numbers are gonna change as no 25 stacks limits so ppl can stacks above that

consider 2 LB rangers which can do 30-40 vulnerability while their thief finished the target
consider condi necro and sb ranger doing nice bleeding stacks poison and burning
consider 2 mtd mesmer stacking above 25 torment and confusion …
conditions are gonna be much worse now if apply by smart players
also power builds get buffed too with dmg modifier and trait ability combined
thus its hard for me to see how we can manage now to protect from being burst is 1 sec or getting 20 burning stacks , or 25 torment, or 30 bleeding

I share your concerns regarding condi damage spike potential for sure. But Condi teams still require a whole lot more coordination and focus targeting abilities than self-sustain, low maintanence builds.
Cleanses completely kill condition builds while Celestials hybrids; if their conditions don’t put out, can rely on raw damage.

To be honest, three celestial classes poses more if a thread than 2 condi torment Mesmers or poison stacking Rangers.

I’m curious if a Condi could actually replace a Zerker dps class; or even a cele, given condi having great node-assaulting/node-defending roles. Current hybrid Guardians are great at these roles but not so much everywhere else. I fear the meta wont need a condi class at all.

i dont know if its gonna be problem as we yet to know how each profession can counter condi builds with cleanse.
as for now i dont see many new cleanse skills and i see more ways to put conditions
necro can now stack chill – the best cc condi out there against melee classes.
mesmer does 50% more torment dmg and got now 4 clonses with 1 shatter (ip) so 8 stacks of torment and 4-8 confusion
guardian can stacks nice burning to a 5k dps (short one) (as for my testing my hybrid guard can down golem on the mist as fast as zerk med guard – so what now will be?…)
thief with traps – more poison, immobilize and bleeding

so every class got more abilities to proc conditions but we hardly got more abilities to cleanse them (maybe 1 more)

will it shift the meta to more condi oriented? i dont think so as power build got more dmg modifier as thief with 20%+10% dmg in the same trait line , guardian 40%, mesmer 40% etc… so they will do much more dmg

so anet buff condi and power all together and power was on the upper hand and probably will be
but may so that team coordinated with 1 condi class or even 2 can do new things on the pvp arena. like guard with traps on points along side cele build like dd or engi or even thief traps

remember ppl how we used to farm with group of traps ranger on gw1
consider ranger , thief, guardian with all the traps on points – could be death sentence for whom stepping on it (immobilize, burning, bleeding , poison, cripple , vulnerability)

Genesis.8572:

Vizardlorde.8243:

You mean reliable range right? cause AFAIK nades are 1500 range traited but only work effectively on large targets like jormag cause of the spread.

Isn’t grenade range being reduced for HoT?

Yes, the trait and skill overhaul which changes nades to 900 range (among many other things. You should check it out) will happen before hot does. So especially when talking about elite specializations, you should keep in mind the non-elite specializations and how those changes will affect and be affected.

The gameplay wasn’t bad at all. It’s interesting since you probably won’t ever see Hunters Ward being used. The fight could have easily went the Guardian’s way if the use of Deflecting Shot was utilized properly(Reflecting Pin-down). I will say there is a loss of sustain when using LB in comparison to Sc/Focus.

As stated many times above, meditations will probably be the go-to skills for the meta until more testing can be done. As far as I can see, the LB isn’t as strong as I originally thought when utilized against a competent opponent. It’s good, just not as insane as I thought it would be which is how it should be.

Nick.6972:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but, last time I checked, Guardian wasn’t even a part of the meta.
What does this add to the Guardian, knowing it’s less optimal than Meditation Guard?

Medi Guard is meta in a lot of comps. Has been for many months.

Already seeing my build PVP DH same med build but with LB and GS keeping distance from the Reaper till i get the chance to jump and burst and get out wen he gets back to F1 Reaper form avoiding those gap closing skills and that 5 GS skill
Rune of the Ogre, Sigils in each of Generosity (hell i’m not keeping that chill on me sending it back) Sigil of Rage in GS (if lucky it activates and i attack faster and increase the chance of transfer) and Sigil of Fire in the LB (why not add some juice to the weapon ) as for the traits il get analyzing to find a good lines and choices.
Sry no trap use hell i’m not gonna be stuck with a 45 sec fail trap cooldown

Fragments of Faith is gonna be vicious in the hands of any close-range DH. A blind, damage, and 5-6 ‘smart’ applications of Aegis?

Saiyan.1704:

Care to make some points as to why DH is inferior instead of saying it visually doesn’t appeal to you? Since you’ve played hybrid guardian before, 2k trap bleeds and 5k burn ticks sounds like it would apeal to you.

Traps?!?! Really how lame. They didn’t seem to work for Rangers why would they work for guardian? Not that I could use them anyways as I have to use my main skills for things like gap closers and healing, because I am slow as a turtle and have the health of a mosquito. So basically I got a bunch of new skills I will not be able to use because of the ingrained class faults.

As to the class itself. TBH bows would not be my first choice but I am fine with the decision. I just do not see anything exciting in the tree they have made for DH or much cross over to the other playstyles. Once you have gone DH you seem to have kitten whatever your other weapon is or your tankiness.

Your 5k burn ticks will last a month then be nerfed down to 500. Seriously, if a dot is taking 1/3+ of a person’s health how long do you think that will stay in a game? And if I am burning someone for 5k I can bet Eles and Engi’s will be burning for 25k. Everytime I find something Guardian does that is kinda cool it gets given to another class and they can do it much better. Burning is currently the most powerful damage, it does not need a pvp buff.

Relentless , you hate everything about the game and complain about everything universally so why should we be surprised your going to continue to add negative feedback and offer no real intellectual responses? If you would theory craft and stop complaining you could find something you enjoy.

And trap ranger works in anything below tourney lvl game play

Relentliss.2170:

Saiyan.1704:

Care to make some points as to why DH is inferior instead of saying it visually doesn’t appeal to you? Since you’ve played hybrid guardian before, 2k trap bleeds and 5k burn ticks sounds like it would apeal to you.

Traps?!?! Really how lame. They didn’t seem to work for Rangers why would they work for guardian? Not that I could use them anyways as I have to use my main skills for things like gap closers and healing, because I am slow as a turtle and have the health of a mosquito. So basically I got a bunch of new skills I will not be able to use because of the ingrained class faults.

As to the class itself. TBH bows would not be my first choice but I am fine with the decision. I just do not see anything exciting in the tree they have made for DH or much cross over to the other playstyles. Once you have gone DH you seem to have kitten whatever your other weapon is or your tankiness.

Your 5k burn ticks will last a month then be nerfed down to 500. Seriously, if a dot is taking 1/3+ of a person’s health how long do you think that will stay in a game? And if I am burning someone for 5k I can bet Eles and Engi’s will be burning for 25k. Everytime I find something Guardian does that is kinda cool it gets given to another class and they can do it much better. Burning is currently the most powerful damage, it does not need a pvp buff.

i agree with you that anet will see the difulcty on conditions with no cap. but if they will nerf it they will have to nerf also the direct dmg to par it with conditions.
also we got new boon resistance which is new way to handle conditions and few for trait/skills to cleanse conditions
also dont forget that till now hybrid guard wasnt consider in the pvp arena. maybe now it will be and players will must to pay attention to the burning stacks or they will lost 5k tick like when condi necro manage to put full signet and fear on you

also regarding traps they will work on guard who’s job is to protect the point or support the point with traps all over the area … will it be meta ? no . will it be playable . yes

They could give guardians new condi for us only….spirit fire. So they can nerf plain fire and buff spirit fire as is, because eles will be too OP with burning stacks. (cele’s are OP as hell now )

Ragnarox.9601:

They could give guardians new condi for us only….spirit fire. So they can nerf plain fire and buff spirit fire as is, because eles will be too OP with burning stacks. (cele’s are OP as hell now )

I would love to see this, one of the big problems with condi guards is our lack of conditions. Even in HoT with the burning changes and bleeds on traps condi guards are unlikely to be viable. We need a consistent condi that can be applied on multi targets consistently that isn’t tied to unreliable traps.

Maybe the first minor trait in DragonHunter that gives us the new Virtues can also give us a mechanic that applies “Spirit Fire” on weapon auto attack critical strikes or something like that.

Arnath.2319:

Ragnarox.9601:

They could give guardians new condi for us only….spirit fire. So they can nerf plain fire and buff spirit fire as is, because eles will be too OP with burning stacks. (cele’s are OP as hell now )

I would love to see this, one of the big problems with condi guards is our lack of conditions. Even in HoT with the burning changes and bleeds on traps condi guards are unlikely to be viable. We need a consistent condi that can be applied on multi targets consistently that isn’t tied to unreliable traps.

Maybe the first minor trait in DragonHunter that gives us the new Virtues can also give us a mechanic that applies “Spirit Fire” on weapon auto attack critical strikes or something like that.

We already have bluish fire when we activate our virtue. Btw eles getting trait “dodge to remove fire condition” so we are more kittened vs ele as now (even now we cant win vs ele)

Ragnarox.9601:

Arnath.2319:

Ragnarox.9601:

They could give guardians new condi for us only….spirit fire. So they can nerf plain fire and buff spirit fire as is, because eles will be too OP with burning stacks. (cele’s are OP as hell now )

I would love to see this, one of the big problems with condi guards is our lack of conditions. Even in HoT with the burning changes and bleeds on traps condi guards are unlikely to be viable. We need a consistent condi that can be applied on multi targets consistently that isn’t tied to unreliable traps.

Maybe the first minor trait in DragonHunter that gives us the new Virtues can also give us a mechanic that applies “Spirit Fire” on weapon auto attack critical strikes or something like that.

We already have bluish fire when we activate our virtue. Btw eles getting trait “dodge to remove fire condition” so we are more kittened vs ele as now (even now we cant win vs ele)

It doesn’t have to be fire, any unique condi that only we can use will be good.

For example the greatsword five skill ‘Binding Blade’ is damage over time and can be applied to multiple enemies at once.

For Example, Dragon Hunters first trait:
“The guardian’s resolve has further increased, allowing virtues to be manifested as physical aspects. In addition all critical strikes made with your main hand and off-hand weapons apply ‘Binding Blade’. ‘Binding Blade’ now stacks.”

Arnath.2319:

Ragnarox.9601:

Arnath.2319:

Ragnarox.9601:

They could give guardians new condi for us only….spirit fire. So they can nerf plain fire and buff spirit fire as is, because eles will be too OP with burning stacks. (cele’s are OP as hell now )

I would love to see this, one of the big problems with condi guards is our lack of conditions. Even in HoT with the burning changes and bleeds on traps condi guards are unlikely to be viable. We need a consistent condi that can be applied on multi targets consistently that isn’t tied to unreliable traps.

Maybe the first minor trait in DragonHunter that gives us the new Virtues can also give us a mechanic that applies “Spirit Fire” on weapon auto attack critical strikes or something like that.

We already have bluish fire when we activate our virtue. Btw eles getting trait “dodge to remove fire condition” so we are more kittened vs ele as now (even now we cant win vs ele)

It doesn’t have to be fire, any unique condi that only we can use will be good.

For example the greatsword five skill ‘Binding Blade’ is damage over time and can be applied to multiple enemies at once.

For Example, Dragon Hunters first trait:
“The guardian’s resolve has further increased, allowing virtues to be manifested as physical aspects. In addition all critical strikes made with your main hand and off-hand weapons apply ‘Binding Blade’. ‘Binding Blade’ now stacks.”

The number of conditions that effects AoE is more important than how many unique conditions a person has. ArenaNet gave us bleeds via traps which is fine and dandy, but unless Permeating Wrath gets an overhaul we may still be useless in team fights.

The reason we’re any kind of useful in 1v1’s is because of our numerous burn on block abilities. Specifically 9 blocks + a Shelter. That’s a lot of burn applications. Place a burn Guard in a 3+ Zerg scenario and these burn applications gets split up. Add any type of team cleanse synchronizations and we greatly under perform compared to the meta.

It’s like your ISP telling you you’ll get 5mbs downstream when in reality, it’s really just 1mbs. In other words, 5k burns and 2k bleeds may not mean anything in 3v3+ Skirmish scenarios.