Guild Wars 2

Zealot’s Aggression with Defender’s Dogma sounds like pretty good synergy.

I still want my instant cast virtues though. Those having 0 synergy with RF is a major roadblock.

Also question: If dulled senses have been moved from Master to Adept, where is Soaring Devastation? Moved to Master?

I might sound like a weirdo… but i REALLY loved the old hunters fortification giving protection. It was a perfect match for the protective/support/healer build i wanted to play, and the aoe protection made it super fun.

now i got no reason to play dragon hunter after all XD

I think you guys need to delete Dragon hunter and just start over, this is all a hot mess

Name it Avenger and see how people stop complaining.

Hello. I noticed during the last beta weekend the trait “Wrath of Justice: Striking an enemy with justice’s active effect triggers signet of wrath.” Doesn’t work with spear of justice, which would be a cool combo. I hope you guys fix that.

“didn’t really portray the more selfish dragonhunter nature that likes to hold an advantage over their enemies.”

I know that elite specs are supposed to about ‘alternate presentations’ of the class, but I really did not pick Guardian to have a selfish playstyle. Most of the other specs are taking what the class is already good at and expanding it in some new nuance that’s still aesthetic to their identity. I get the whole ‘zeal’ thing but it’s just so selfish. I would’ve loved to see an offensive-styled spec like this that’s still support-based in nature, like how “Feel My Wrath” is completely offensive, but is still 100% support. You get the offensive nature, without losing the Guardian theme.

I hope we get a supportive playstyle in the future. It’s a real bummer waiting all these years for class upgrades and the one class I love most dearly is essentially getting nothing to expand the reason why I picked it. Not to decry all the work that’s gone into it, it just feels like our namesake was misunderstood.

I like that traps don’t bleed anymore. While I wouldn’t say daze is necessarily a Guardian thing either, it’s sort of thematic to barriers and knockbacks while bleeding has no precedence on Guardian.

I’ve only skimmed so I’m not sure if there’s been any talk of increasing the range on Wings of Resolve. 600 feels really sort, it’d be nice to have sort of a ‘savior from the heavens’ feel of jumping 800, maybe 1200 range to heal an ally, even if that costs the skill in another area. Perhaps making the immobilize only work at 600 or less range, so the long jump is for allies and the short hop is for enemies? Perhaps make it so the heal only triggers if you land close to/on an ally so it’s not overpowered as an escape tool?

Really sad to see how we lost our only new source of bleed in the whole class, now back to only burn.

I dont really like how necessary is take heavy light to take benefict from the rest of long bow traits using knowback→cripple, i really dont like the random auto-knockback, i want to choose when knockback my enemy and no punish my melee team mates auto knockback a enemy that they are hitting, and if i get another trait instead heavy light my another traits like dulled sens and zealot agresion are practically useless. Sorry but i think that if 2 trait are useless if i dont take a third one thar is a really bad design.

Traps are still useless and we lost our only bleed source, sorry but i agree that right now our DH is a big mess Karl and we need a lot of revamp design and not only a few touches to fix all. I think that the thematic traits of robert with reaper, chrono and bersk with a whole new traits will improve this.

The new things that will improve a DH in a guardians are the thibgs that we lack, we alredy have a lot of support , defesnive and melee traits, i will go with 3 thematic trait lines like robert spec, 3 traits to improve traps and add new condition damage guardian with all weapons like bleed on crit, confusion on blinds etc…, 3 traits to improve lb and range combat, and 3 to improve our new virtes and with senergy between them but not dependent to mix them, that all give DH reason to play it, but sadly right now i think that right now we are only try to fix a wreck building when is much better destroy it and build a good new one from scratch.

That source of bleed was garbage and a waste of a trait. Glad to see it go. These proposed changes are more aligned to what makes sense for the spec and the class. Giving bleed on traps did not.

DH with these changes would at least give a strong build for LBow, as it should have in the first place. It’s pretty clueless to continue complaining about how DH doesn’t give ‘stuff we need’; it’s that way because it was never intended to give stuff we need. If you’re trying to shoehorn elite spec into your currently fixed way of thinking about playing Guardian, OFC it’s not going to work well.

Besides, we already have that needed stuff in the 5 vanilla lines. If you want stuff you think you need, play those.

Darmikau.9413:

“didn’t really portray the more selfish dragonhunter nature that likes to hold an advantage over their enemies.”

Snip

^This. I really didn’t want a selfish ranger wannabe, but at least the devs are calling it what it is.

I’m just gonna pretend that guardians didn’t get an elite spec and wait for the next expansion. :>

Looking much better! Thanks Karl! It’s all starting to make some sense!

The only thing I don’t like is “Symbol of Energy: Removed the burning on impact (no other symbol has an additional effect, so this felt weird). Increased damage dealt by 10%.”

I always wished there were additional effects like burning with symbols solely because the symbols are easy to avoid as it is and the consequences felt so rewarding with Symbol of Energy.

I really enjoyed the burning on it but it’s not a deal breaker if it’s gone.

Here’s what Karl should have said:
Virtues:

• Spear of Justice: Increased missile velocity by 100%. Reduced the casting speed from 3/4 second to 1/4 second.

• Shield of Courage: The shielding effect now occurs the moment this ability starts. Lowered after-cast by 200 milliseconds.
  The shield now block all attacks from in front of the player for the duration, and grants aegis to allies upon expiration.

Traits:

Minor: On the Hunt: Movement speed increased 25%, grants Swiftness when you activate a virtue.

Adept – Piercing Light: The bleeding effect only really benefited a couple traps, where we wanted the effects of this trait to enhance each one in the same way.

• The bleeding functionality has been removed and will now daze stun enemies for 1 second when traps enter their ‘activating’ state.

Adept – Dulled Senses: Moved here from the Master tier! Enemies you knock back are crippled. Enemies you cripple receive Vulnerability. Reduced the vuln from 3 stacks for 5 seconds to 1 stack for 8 seconds.

Master – Hunter’s Determination: Drop a Fragments of Faith trap at your location when you’re crowd-controlled.

Master – Zealot’s Aggression: Deal extra damage to crippled enemies. Damage bonus increased from 7% to 10%. Justice’s passive effect cripples enemies (1.5s).

Grandmaster – Hunter’s Fortification: Remove conditions when blocking attacks (1 per block, ICD 1 second). Receive 10% less damage when you have no conditions on you.

Grandmaster – Heavy Light: Merged the aspect of Hunter’s Determination.
Longbow arrows knock back enemies that are within the range threshold (10s ICD). Gain stability quickness (2s) when you knock an enemy back in this fashion.[/s]

Can we get some kind of passive speed? Please?

Karl McLain.5604:

• Shield of Courage: The shielding effect now occurs the moment this ability starts. Lowered after-cast by 200 milliseconds. We’re also looking into a better functionality for the shield.
  Where we’re at: Currently, you block all attacks for allies within the radius, but you don’t get any feedback for it… so we’re looking to improve that. The shield also doesn’t really benefit you, other than missile blocking (which is good, but feels like it should do more, being that you’re giving up instant casts). The current idea is to block attacks from the front (within the shield you’re projecting), but be vulnerable from the back to ensure counter-play.

Traits:

Master – Hunter’s Determination: Drop a Fragments of Faith trap at your location when you’re crowd-controlled.

Grandmaster – Heavy Light: Merged the aspect of Hunter’s Determination.

• Longbow arrows knock back enemies that are within the range threshold (10s ICD). Gain stability (1 stack, 5 seconds) when you knock an enemy back in this fashion.

Cheers,
-Karl

Hey, thanks for the changes.

Shield of Courage should be a light field which also pulses blind to enemies in the cone area (or at least make the blind field a part of Bulwark). This ensures that enemies behind the DH can hit them, but also that it negates the damage from attackers in front of the DH. Also, incoming projectiles will still be able to hit the Guardian from behind.

Hunter’s Determination is great now.

I think the Stability proc merging into Heavy Light was a mistake. Put this into the new Zealot’s Aggression. Have the stability apply on demand was suitably effective; it worked against downed enemies, players can anticipate the True Shot projectile (counterplay), and having one rewarded for hitting multiple enemies was reasonable. With the new version; it’s somewhat RNG, doesn’t work against downed, and is kind of counter intuitive. As Assic.2746 said, the stability on knockback doesn’t mesh well since in a sense, the knockback already prevents CC.

Also, now that the burning was removed from Symbol of Energy, can it have a reduced cd?

Thanks Karl!

I love the trait rework. it was needed. the condition remove on block seems really good and gives us the option to drop virtues. this opens up a great varity of builds. thank you for listening ( also nice to see an idea of my in the changes. Also this trait setup opens up the option to go with a trap in pvp ( block trap together with going zeal valor DH for shatterd aegis).
I think im nearly fully happy. there is one thing left that needs a fix imo. This is F2. its clunky, its a bit like old jumpshot. a range increase to 900 would fix this issue i think

ty again. changes make me excited for hot guardian

Please clarify, do you want us to use Spear of Justice or not?

Half our traits encourage F1 use.
Half encourage us to never use it and rely on the passive.

Change all the traits that improve the passive effect to improve the active effect.
Or allow the passive effect to stay even after activation.

Also I hate how Dragon Hunter is no longer condi friendly, it’s just another Zeal clone now. No more bleeds, no more burning, I thought one of the goals of the Dragonhunter was to make condi guards viable? This trait line is loosing its unique flavour.

I also hate how all our traits are designed for PVP. Where is the PVE love?

The Deflecting Shot changes are perfect, Longbow is almost perfect now.

Traps are still garbage tho.

Arnath.2319:

Please clarify, do you want us to use Spear of Justice or not?

Half our traits encourage F1 use.
Half encourage us to never use it and rely on the passive.

Change all the traits that improve the passive effect to improve the active effect.
Or allow the passive effect to stay even after activation.

Also I hate how Dragon Hunter is no longer condi friendly, it’s just another Zeal clone now. No more bleeds, no more burning, I thought one of the goals of the Dragonhunter was to make condi guards viable? This trait line is loosing its unique flavour.

I also hate how all our traits are designed for PVP. Where is the PVE love?

The Deflecting Shot changes are perfect, Longbow is almost perfect now.

Traps are still garbage tho.

They don’t want us to do anything; they give us the choice. There is no PVE love because DH is a PVP spec.

When you can apply cripple with every thrid attack + on traps + on autoattack if it bounces… it will stack a lot. But for me longer duration seems better than more stacks. Mybe not with longow but with weapons which attacks are faster: GS, Sword.

Grandmaster – Heavy Light: Merged the aspect of Hunter’s Determination.
Longbow arrows knock back enemies that are within the range threshold (10s ICD). Gain stability quickness (2s) when you knock an enemy back in this fashion.

As I said on the previous site stability, which occurs here is pretty useless. Quickness on the other hand sounds cool but might be quite OP.
____________________________________________________________________
I propose:
When you successfully knock back an enemy (not only with an arrow; just knock back; you can do it with shield #5 and then swap your weapon to longbow, because only arrows will apply it) your next arrow will apply Burning Arrow.

Burning Arrow or Blazing Arrow - similar to Paragon’s skill

• Damage,
• Burning(3s); 1 target.
• When blocked it explodes and applies AoE Burning(5s); up to 5 targets.

What is important:
I propose when blocked, so when reflected, destroyed, absorbed or whatever the AoE burning wouldn’t occur. Also when the enemy is invulnerable it would not explode.

Assic.2746:

As I said on the previous site stability, which occurs here is pretty useless. Quickness on the other hand sounds cool but might be quite OP.

I propose:
When you successfuly knockback an enemy (not only with an arrow; just knockback; you can do it with shield #5 and then swap your weapon to longbow, bacause only arrows will apply it) your next arrow will apply Burning Arrow.

Burning Arrow

• Damage,
• Always a critical hit,
• Burning(3s),

That’s cool, no one really uses shield but I see where you’re trying to build some synergy. As for quickness, warriors get 6s every 15s (low health enemy) with a GM trait in Arms. I dont see 2s every 10s being that OP. It is a GM trait after all. I don’t even like the idea of knockback you don’t have control over. IMO, True Shot should have knock back if in a certain range and this trait should go the way of the dinosaur.

I like the feedback including reasons for changes. My only concern is that it seems we are going in circles with damage. Base damage is up but with less vuln, no bleeds and less burn application is there really going to be much impact one way or the other?

Also I really feel deflecting shot would benefit from changing it to a current target from a ground target skill. Would be a much quicker reaction that that way. I’m afraid human brains just aren’t equipped with the necessary response time to intercept projectiles with another projectile mid flight.

Apraxas.3685:

I might sound like a weirdo… but i REALLY loved the old hunters fortification giving protection. It was a perfect match for the protective/support/healer build i wanted to play, and the aoe protection made it super fun.

now i got no reason to play dragon hunter after all XD

The old hunters fortification was needlessly redundant. There are shouts that grant AOE protection, there’s the hammer autoattack which grants AOE protection (100% protection uptime with the right traits).

I for one, welcome the changes.

Aorin.9168:

Movement speed, Karl. Movement speed.

This.

Darknicrofia.2604:

Zealot’s Aggression with Defender’s Dogma sounds like pretty good synergy.

I agree.
But Zealot’s Aggression should be made into the Minor trait slot instead of Pure of Sight. That way our Minor traits deal with “Passive Justice”. Because Pure of Sight is a niche trait that has no synergy with many Guardian builds.
Pure of Sight should be a “choice”(Major), not forced on every player.
Zealot’s Aggression would be useful to ALL builds, because every build has access to Passive Justice.

Darknicrofia.2604:

Also question: If dulled senses have been moved from Master to Adept, where is Soaring Devastation? Moved to Master?

Zealot’s Aggression was moved to Master while Dulled Senses was moved to Adept so Soaring Devastation is still in the same place.

Aorin.9168:

Movement speed, Karl. Movement speed.

I think the reason why we are not getting movement speed is because we inflict Crippled.

Karl McLain.5604:

Hey all. Following up on what we talked about last week. Here’s a few more things that we’re looking at doing:

Longbow update

Deflecting Shot: The last time I posted, the note I had on this was a vague ‘damage increase’ thing, which met with fair opposition. We’ve had a little more time to look into the ability and have tweaked it a fair amount so that it can retain its primary defensive functionality and still reward you for reactive play. Here’s what we’ve got -

• Reduced missile velocity by 25% (it traveled too fast to really block much). Reduced after-cast by 300 milliseconds. Increased base damage by 13%. Destroying a projectile with this ability increases the damage it deals by 100%. Increased the blocking radius by 33%. The attack radius of this ability has not been increased.

• Symbol of Energy: Removed the burning on impact (no other symbol has an additional effect, so this felt weird). Increased damage dealt by 10%.

Virtues:

• Spear of Justice: Increased missile velocity by 100%. Reduced the casting speed from 3/4 second to 1/4 second.

• Shield of Courage: The shielding effect now occurs the moment this ability starts. Lowered after-cast by 200 milliseconds. We’re also looking into a better functionality for the shield.
  Where we’re at: Currently, you block all attacks for allies within the radius, but you don’t get any feedback for it… so we’re looking to improve that. The shield also doesn’t really benefit you, other than missile blocking (which is good, but feels like it should do more, being that you’re giving up instant casts). The current idea is to block attacks from the front (within the shield you’re projecting), but be vulnerable from the back to ensure counter-play.

• Wings of Resolve: We’re waiting to see how the current implementation plays out, being as the ability has a greatly increased healing application and has access to 3 seconds of immobilize.

Traits:
There’s been some merging and creation of new trait types for the Dragonhunter line. There are now a couple of direct defensive options, in addition to some stronger power/damage ones. The goal here was to give different clear avenues (damage, utility, virtues… with some overlap)

Adept – Piercing Light: The bleeding effect only really benefited a couple traps, where we wanted the effects of this trait to enhance each one in the same way.

• The bleeding functionality has been removed and will now daze enemies for 1 second when traps enter their ‘activating’ state.

Adept – Dulled Senses: Moved here from the Master tier! Enemies you knock back are crippled. Enemies you cripple receive Vulnerability. Reduced the vuln from 3 stacks for 5 seconds to 1 stack for 8 seconds.

Master – Hunter’s Determination: Drop a Fragments of Faith trap at your location when you’re crowd-controlled.

Master – Zealot’s Aggression: Deal extra damage to crippled enemies. Damage bonus increased from 7% to 10%. Justice’s passive effect cripples enemies (1.5s).

Grandmaster – Hunter’s Fortification: The area effect protection was bland and, while defensive, didn’t really portray the more selfish dragonhunter nature that likes to hold an advantage over their enemies. We’ve replaced this with a bit different defensive nature that’s also more synergistic with Hunter’s Determination.

• Remove conditions when blocking attacks (1 per block, ICD 1 second). Receive 10% less damage when you have no conditions on you.

Grandmaster – Heavy Light: Merged the aspect of Hunter’s Determination.

• Longbow arrows knock back enemies that are within the range threshold (10s ICD). Gain stability (1 stack, 5 seconds) when you knock an enemy back in this fashion.

Please keep in mind that (as before) these things won’t be in the next BWE, but in a future update. As always, thanks for your constructive feedback!

Cheers,
-Karl

Better. This is much better. Finally seeing some decent progress here, especially with the easier access to cripple without having to resort to Heavy Light/longbow combo. Some things still need more review though:

Defender’s Dogma and Pure of Sight are both way too niche to be minor traits. If they’re meant to be taken with every Dragonhunter build then they need to be widely applicable enough that they’ll actually be put to use in every build.

Daze on trap activation sounds cool, but really doesn’t solve the issue of traps being too easy to avoid, because a dazed player can still dodge out of the AoE. Make this an immobilize instead, and you’ll have something worthwhile. Since it will be in direct competition with Soaring Devastation anyway, you won’t have to worry about an overabundance of immobilize.

It’s still a little problematic that Heavy Light is so reliant on a passive ICD and isn’t an on-demand knockback for when we may potentially need an interrupt. I do like the idea of it being specifically linked to True Shot or Deflecting Shot instead of just any arrow attack that hits once every 10 seconds.

Also consider making the self-aspect of the Wings of Resolve instant as many are suggesting. It really hurts to not have that heal/triple condi cleanse when we need it, and while the condi removal on block sounds amazing, I don’t think it’ll be enough to make up for the loss of that on-demand utility that the instant Virtue of Resolve provides.

How about something like this, Karl? For Shield of Courage. Each block heals in the radius of SoC.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shield_Guardian

Karl McLain.5604:

Hey all. Following up on what we talked about last week. Here’s a few more things that we’re looking at doing:

Longbow update

Deflecting Shot: The last time I posted, the note I had on this was a vague ‘damage increase’ thing, which met with fair opposition. We’ve had a little more time to look into the ability and have tweaked it a fair amount so that it can retain its primary defensive functionality and still reward you for reactive play. Here’s what we’ve got -

• Reduced missile velocity by 25% (it traveled too fast to really block much). Reduced after-cast by 300 milliseconds. Increased base damage by 13%. Destroying a projectile with this ability increases the damage it deals by 100%. Increased the blocking radius by 33%. The attack radius of this ability has not been increased.

• Symbol of Energy: Removed the burning on impact (no other symbol has an additional effect, so this felt weird). Increased damage dealt by 10%.

Virtues:

• Spear of Justice: Increased missile velocity by 100%. Reduced the casting speed from 3/4 second to 1/4 second.

• Shield of Courage: The shielding effect now occurs the moment this ability starts. Lowered after-cast by 200 milliseconds. We’re also looking into a better functionality for the shield.
  Where we’re at: Currently, you block all attacks for allies within the radius, but you don’t get any feedback for it… so we’re looking to improve that. The shield also doesn’t really benefit you, other than missile blocking (which is good, but feels like it should do more, being that you’re giving up instant casts). The current idea is to block attacks from the front (within the shield you’re projecting), but be vulnerable from the back to ensure counter-play.

• Wings of Resolve: We’re waiting to see how the current implementation plays out, being as the ability has a greatly increased healing application and has access to 3 seconds of immobilize.

Traits:
There’s been some merging and creation of new trait types for the Dragonhunter line. There are now a couple of direct defensive options, in addition to some stronger power/damage ones. The goal here was to give different clear avenues (damage, utility, virtues… with some overlap)

Adept – Piercing Light: The bleeding effect only really benefited a couple traps, where we wanted the effects of this trait to enhance each one in the same way.

• The bleeding functionality has been removed and will now daze enemies for 1 second when traps enter their ‘activating’ state.

Adept – Dulled Senses: Moved here from the Master tier! Enemies you knock back are crippled. Enemies you cripple receive Vulnerability. Reduced the vuln from 3 stacks for 5 seconds to 1 stack for 8 seconds.

Master – Hunter’s Determination: Drop a Fragments of Faith trap at your location when you’re crowd-controlled.

Master – Zealot’s Aggression: Deal extra damage to crippled enemies. Damage bonus increased from 7% to 10%. Justice’s passive effect cripples enemies (1.5s).

Grandmaster – Hunter’s Fortification: The area effect protection was bland and, while defensive, didn’t really portray the more selfish dragonhunter nature that likes to hold an advantage over their enemies. We’ve replaced this with a bit different defensive nature that’s also more synergistic with Hunter’s Determination.

• Remove conditions when blocking attacks (1 per block, ICD 1 second). Receive 10% less damage when you have no conditions on you.

Grandmaster – Heavy Light: Merged the aspect of Hunter’s Determination.

• Longbow arrows knock back enemies that are within the range threshold (10s ICD). Gain stability (1 stack, 5 seconds) when you knock an enemy back in this fashion.

Please keep in mind that (as before) these things won’t be in the next BWE, but in a future update. As always, thanks for your constructive feedback!

Cheers,
-Karl

I love the changes .. Thank you carl for updating the community. Even though it’s not going to be implemented in teh upcoming bwe, it’s still good to know the direction and work being done. Most of the community is just feeling neglected. This kind of updates is good to help people feel heard . Keep up the great work.

I have a small note regarding a couple of the new traits regarding cripple and vaulnrability on virtue of justice passive. since this is a general thread, I went ahead and seperated that discussion into another thread. Please check it out. Looking forward to hearing your feedback on it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/DH-Virtue-of-Justice-and-Permeating-Wrath

Oh beautiful it is.

I really like some of the proposals, ankitten eutral on the others. Zealot’s Aggression is probably my favorite trait now. Hunters determination seems very interesting to a shattered aegis build and Hunters Fortification is great. Deflecting Shot and Shield of Courage are looking good.

I just sing know what to think about Heavy Light. Particularly the stability, but it’s a price worth paying Zealot’s Aggression

Hey Karl! Thank you for the update, and thank you for listening to the players! Here’s some initial thoughts and feed back for yall on these new DH updates:

-Deflecting shot: Great! The fact that you increased the damage dealt if a projectile is blocked adds a lot more incentive to use Longbow, and to use it strategically! Very smart change.

-Shield of Courage: I hope that you also increase the shielding time from 5 seconds to 5.25 seconds to account for the delay of casting it.

Traits:

-Piercing Light: Great addition! While minor, please consider upping the daze time to 2 seconds. Considering the cool down times of the traps, I think 2 seconds is a good number. Remember: Our primary complaint was that traps didn’t offer a lot of sustain. Dazing an opponent can cleverly be used as a method of sustain, as they can not attack you while dazed. 2 seconds of daze per trap activated offers a decent, but not OP amount of daze up time.

-Dulled senses: How about 2 stacks for 8 seconds? I can see this being great for pve, but in pvp you are still very very unlikely to stack more than 10 vuln on someone with this trait. Please no icd on this trait if you aren’t going to change it from 1 vuln/8s.

-Hunter’s Determination: Great trait! This opens up DH to a lot of build diversity! The theory-crafting gears are already turning!

-Zealot’s Aggression: Again, very nice job, and a lot of us are going to really appreciate legitimate access to cripple with this trait!

-Hunter’s Fortification: Like! This is going to open up a lot of build diversity. I can already see a shout build with some passive condi clear (like Strength of the Fallen), and this trait being able to cleanse a mad amount of condis! Great defensive GM trait.

-Heavy Light: I ALMOST like this trait, and I think it’s close to being in a good spot, but not quite: Simply casting true shot should give us the stack of stability, and here’s why: When you cast true shot, you kneel which is a stable position. This logically and thematically makes sense. A dragonhunter taking a knee, a very stable and steady position, as he prepares an extremely powerful arrow to fire. It does not make sense for us to receive stability when knocking someone back (thematically, this seems like something a mesmer or necro should get), and additionally, it’s a waste of 1-2 seconds of that stability, especially in a 1v1 type scenario: If you knock someone back, that’s 1 second they aren’t going to be attacking/ccing you for, plus they’re probably going to dodge after getting up. Add stability on casting true shot, and this GM will be very competitive with the other two!

Karl McLain.5604:

Please keep in mind that (as before) these things won’t be in the next BWE, but in a future update. As always, thanks for your constructive feedback!

If you dont let us test it, how are we supposed to give you guys some feedback about it?!

And then the thing with Spear of Justice, 1/4s is at least something but still, it is a casttime. As a guardian in current PvE state. You cast Shield of Wrath, swap to torch, Symbol of Faith/Feel my Wrath (yes you cant cast both at the same time, cause Feel my Wrath got 1/4s casttime as well, so you have to cast it before or after the symbol) then torch #4 and swap to greatsword. In between you can just cast your F1 to get your retal.
But if you then really need 1/4s casttime as well, then seriously f… that sh…

Remove conditions when blocking attacks (1 per block, ICD 1 second). Receive 10% less damage when you have no conditions on you.

^Well, that doesn’t do anything. You can sneeze in this game without getting a debuff on yourself. Although it’s another buff to the only viable Guardian’s heal so I can’t complain too much.

Sweety Karl, Guard is my main so I constantly check this thread looking for some good news in terms of Dh balance!
Just a QOL request: can you pls edit 1st post also? Specifing wich changes are incoming in the next BWE and wich we’ll see on the next one..
This will help us to value changes all together and have a good judge about this changes

Thorwyn.8469:

Karl McLain.5604:

Please keep in mind that (as before) these things won’t be in the next BWE, but in a future update. As always, thanks for your constructive feedback!

If you dont let us test it, how are we supposed to give you guys some feedback about it?!

They WILL allow us to test it. Just not at the upcoming BEW as implementing changes has to go through the proper channels and protocols. It’s not as simple as flipping a switch. It’s a big company that they has it’s own protocols and processing times.

x indigo x.6981:

Thorwyn.8469:

Karl McLain.5604:

Please keep in mind that (as before) these things won’t be in the next BWE, but in a future update. As always, thanks for your constructive feedback!

If you dont let us test it, how are we supposed to give you guys some feedback about it?!

They WILL allow us to test it. Just not at the upcoming BEW as implementing changes has to go through the proper channels and protocols. It’s not as simple as flipping a switch. It’s a big company that they has it’s own protocols and processing times.

Well, it is 1 1/2 weeks til the next BWE, if they did the changes already, it should be able to let us test them there.

Thorwyn.8469:

x indigo x.6981:

Thorwyn.8469:

Karl McLain.5604:

Please keep in mind that (as before) these things won’t be in the next BWE, but in a future update. As always, thanks for your constructive feedback!

If you dont let us test it, how are we supposed to give you guys some feedback about it?!

They WILL allow us to test it. Just not at the upcoming BEW as implementing changes has to go through the proper channels and protocols. It’s not as simple as flipping a switch. It’s a big company that they has it’s own protocols and processing times.

Well, it is 1 1/2 weeks til the next BWE, if they did the changes already, it should be able to let us test them there.

I believe right now they’re working on the in a theoretical manner. Determining what approach to use BEFORE implementation. The theoretical part takes processing of approval.. Then comes implementation which takes time .. then come internal testing and balancing which takes time .. then comes finalizing for BWE which takes processing too …

the week and a half is actually 6 BUSINESS days or work hours .. just because it’s a week and a half away doesn’t mean they’re living and breathing development and staying at the office 24/7 . Also when they are working, they are not ONLY working on Dragonhunter. There are other things that they are working on. It follows an agenda that’s managed internally.

I am grateful they are sharing the future plans on here so we’re kept in the light. But pressing them unrealisticly to push something they’re not ready to push only shows a lack of understanding to the corporate dynamics of running large corporation like anet.

I’m not writing this to antagonize. Please understand that a business runs in a more complex and time consuming manner than a change that an individual focused on 1 task and 1 task only can do.

Karl McLain.5604:

Adept – Piercing Light: The bleeding effect only really benefited a couple traps, where we wanted the effects of this trait to enhance each one in the same way.

• The bleeding functionality has been removed and will now daze enemies for 1 second when traps enter their ‘activating’ state.

Please don’t remove bleeding from this trait. It is good as a cover condition.

So… what about the elephant in the room?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/DragonHunter-name-feedback-merged/first

You are now on the way Karl! Traits are more creative now!

Karl McLain.5604:

• Symbol of Energy: Removed the burning on impact (no other symbol has an additional effect, so this felt weird). Increased damage dealt by 10%.

Virtues:

• Shield of Courage: The shielding effect now occurs the moment this ability starts. Lowered after-cast by 200 milliseconds. We’re also looking into a better functionality for the shield.
  Where we’re at: Currently, you block all attacks for allies within the radius, but you don’t get any feedback for it… so we’re looking to improve that. The shield also doesn’t really benefit you, other than missile blocking (which is good, but feels like it should do more, being that you’re giving up instant casts). The current idea is to block attacks from the front (within the shield you’re projecting), but be vulnerable from the back to ensure counter-play.

• Wings of Resolve: We’re waiting to see how the current implementation plays out, being as the ability has a greatly increased healing application and has access to 3 seconds of immobilize.

Symbol of Energy – I don’t know if only +10% of damage is good.

Shield of Courage – Reflect projectiles and block melee, this will be a good change.

Wings of Resolve – Community is asking for more range, you can reduce the heal.

Now the first thing we are looking for is when you are treated with some virtue traits, the cast of the traits should be instant before the animations of the new virtues.

Doomdesire.9365:

Overall I like the new changes, however I’m concerned that with

Grandmaster – Heavy Light: Merged the aspect of Hunter’s Determination.
Longbow arrows knock back enemies that are within the range threshold (10s ICD). Gain stability (1 stack, 5 seconds) when you knock an enemy back in this fashion.

you won’t be able accurately time the stabo. IMO Hunter’s Determination should keep it’s base function when merged with Heavy Light (that is, grant stabo when you hit a target with true shot). Limited to 1 stack @ 5s. This way stabo can be timed better to prevent CCs, instead of having a large random factor.

Can’t wait to see the changes in bwe3 though, keep up the good work!

You should not be concerned. what this means is a 50% uptime one-time CC shield.
this is hugh. 5 secs means you can boost this easily to 7,5s with boon duration if you are in for that. heck imagine a Herold next to it its perma stability.

In addition we have 2 on demand stability skills on top of that. and a consecration that pumps stability like nothing else.

Well as I said when they first show the DH, this will be worst elite spec. Well I guess I am almost right…

Revenant – better shield skills
Mesmer – better shield skills + wells
Warrior – better torch skills + new utilities
ranger – better staff skills
thief – better staff skills
engineer – better hammer skills
ele – 3rd from bottom – but 50% better now than other classes + shouts (again shouts haha- why not traps? lol)
Necro – 2nd from bottom (our competition) + shouts (shouts saved them-better than traps lol)

and finally last and least:

guardian – slow longbow + unused traps (like spirit weapons that noone uses hahaha) + noninstant virtues

bad luck guardians bad luck someone must lose sometimes, guess we lost this expansion.

YuiRS.8129:

Remove conditions when blocking attacks (1 per block, ICD 1 second). Receive 10% less damage when you have no conditions on you.

^Well, that doesn’t do anything. You can sneeze in this game without getting a debuff on yourself. Although it’s another buff to the only viable Guardian’s heal so I can’t complain too much.

*edit: With second reading I think you might have meant the 10% which are totally useless… if you meant the whole trait – sorry for nothing…

……………..

sorry but you have no clue.
we needed this badly. it is a solution for many problems and opens up a lot more build options simply because it removes our reliance on utility skills to cleanse condis.

This grandmaster trait is one of the most synegetic traits we will have IF it goes live!
I dreamed of a GM that removes condi when Aegis ends. this is much better!

Every traitline prifts from it. Especially those that do nothing for blocking because now you can actually take them without having zero condi removal.

Mace #3 = 1x condi cleanse on 15sec CD
Focus #5 = up to 3x condi cleanse on 36 sec CD
Retreat = cleanses condi without investing in honor in honor
VoC = Aegis cures a condition
VoC active = its a shield now that can last for 5 secs clearing 4 condis
Valor minor = 1x condi cleanse at 50% hp
Valor minor 2 = recharges VoC so another condi cleanse
Protective reviver = Clear an additional condi
shelter = 2x condi cleanse on 30 sec cd
fragements of faith = produces kitten loads of aegis
hunters determination = produces the trap that produces a kitten load of aegis
two rune sets that produce aegis = just got better
boon conversion = fire turns into aegis which clears a condi

Sometimes I wish this was reddit: I would downvote you so hard. ;-)

The changes are in total awsome. You can see that simply by the fact that it is hard to choose between them!

Hey Karl, liking allot of the changes.

There is one thing however. I was really happy to see the guardian possibly getting access to more conditions & thus be more condi viable.

Seeing as piercing light was underwhelming however wouldn’t it be great to have it also apply bleeds with sword & bow hits instead of doing a daze.

guildabd.6529:

Karl McLain.5604:

Adept – Piercing Light: The bleeding effect only really benefited a couple traps, where we wanted the effects of this trait to enhance each one in the same way.

• The bleeding functionality has been removed and will now daze enemies for 1 second when traps enter their ‘activating’ state.

Please don’t remove bleeding from this trait. It is good as a cover condition.

This ^.

If anything the bleeding should be applied by more then just traps.

Sword & bow hits make sense since they are sharp pointy things.

And its not like the other traps can’t be made to hit multiple times for smaller amounts each time.

Beeing a Guardian inherits the theme of taking blows for others e.g. like a ward or shield inbetween ally’s and foes.
I think there should be some way for us to be able to use “Taunt”. To draw Danger away from our ally’s.

My idea would be through activating “Virtue of Justice” or another skill that is not bound to a specific weapon.

I agree that the Stability on Heavy Light feels a little out of place. Would something like Super Speed be out of the question? It would help with the kiting feel and keep the self reliance without the need for boons.

Karl McLain.5604:

Symbol of Energy: Removed the burning on impact (no other symbol has an additional effect, so this felt weird). Increased damage dealt by 10%.

Karl, I get why you feel this needed a change, but can we go the other direction and pulse burn from the symbol of energy, instead?

The longbow doesn’t offer that much to a condition guardian as is, particularly against 1-2 targets because of the small number of hits on skills 4&5. This change will push it even more that direction. I don’t think pulsing fire would be overpowered for PvP because targets aren’t going to stand in it for long. Moreover, even power builds can get some decent damage because burning is so strong.

I’ve been looking forward to using this spec with my burn guardian, but between this and removing the bleeding option from traps (my favorite trait in the entire set, I would have rather added bleed to bow hits as suggested by Ragnar), I’m starting to wonder if it isn’t going to work very well. Thanks for taking the time to consider.

Bow doesn’t offer much condi damages. Can the symbol pulse 10x instead of five? If it finalized in the same amount of time that would be awesome for condi guards. Reduce damage by 1/4 to compensate, of course.

I definitely like the new trap change! That was soooo needed!

Thorwyn.8469:

x indigo x.6981:

Thorwyn.8469:

Karl McLain.5604:

Please keep in mind that (as before) these things won’t be in the next BWE, but in a future update. As always, thanks for your constructive feedback!

If you dont let us test it, how are we supposed to give you guys some feedback about it?!

They WILL allow us to test it. Just not at the upcoming BEW as implementing changes has to go through the proper channels and protocols. It’s not as simple as flipping a switch. It’s a big company that they has it’s own protocols and processing times.

Well, it is 1 1/2 weeks til the next BWE, if they did the changes already, it should be able to let us test them there.

How do you know if they did the changes already?

Arnath.2319:

Also I hate how Dragon Hunter is no longer condi friendly, it’s just another Zeal clone now. No more bleeds, no more burning, I thought one of the goals of the Dragonhunter was to make condi guards viable? This trait line is loosing its unique flavour.

I concur with this^^

I ran a rampager’s build (would’ve loved to try Sin if I had the gear available) during the last bwe and thought it had some promise but now with these recent changes it doesn’t make much sense to put condi into a DH build:/

Bandit.8279:

Arnath.2319:

Also I hate how Dragon Hunter is no longer condi friendly, it’s just another Zeal clone now. No more bleeds, no more burning, I thought one of the goals of the Dragonhunter was to make condi guards viable? This trait line is loosing its unique flavour.

I concur with this^^

I ran a rampager’s build (would’ve loved to try Sin if I had the gear available) during the last bwe and thought it had some promise but now with these recent changes it doesn’t make much sense to put condi into a DH build:/

I agree. Condi doesn’t perform as good as power for DH. That can be changed easily but adding more hits to our otherwise low hitting skills. It doesn’t have to be as high as scepter’s 16 hits, but I see it some where around 8x hits like the Sword.

Bandit.8279:

Arnath.2319:

Also I hate how Dragon Hunter is no longer condi friendly, it’s just another Zeal clone now. No more bleeds, no more burning, I thought one of the goals of the Dragonhunter was to make condi guards viable? This trait line is loosing its unique flavour.

I concur with this^^

I ran a rampager’s build (would’ve loved to try Sin if I had the gear available) during the last bwe and thought it had some promise but now with these recent changes it doesn’t make much sense to put condi into a DH build:/

Based on the pathetic amount of conditions DH had in it, it never did. In all honesty, if anyone doesn’t think they can still make a condition build with DH spec’ed, I don’t think they are paying attention to the current meta.

Obtena.7952:

Based on the pathetic amount of conditions DH had in it, it never did. In all honesty, if anyone doesn’t think they can still make a condition build with DH spec’ed, I don’t think they are paying attention to the current meta.

A couple of things. First of all, some of us don’t care so much about the meta. There’s a difference between what works pretty well and what is completely optimal. There’s also a big difference between what works in PvE vs PvP. I think you have PvP in mind, and you might be right that few players would have gone for a condi DH build (which in and of itself is useful feedback), but that doesn’t mean it might not have worked just fine for PvE content before the recently announced changes. The point here is that what modest potential DH might have had (which could have been increased for all play modes with different changes) instead got ripped out of it pretty hard.