Firebrand!?!?

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: LetoII.3782

LetoII.3782

Personally I’d promote him to head of the shiny floors team.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

Cast times are bad all 3/4 that can be interrupted.

The necromancer subforum says “#&%$!@ you!”

3/4th second cast is fast by our standards.

Sanity is for the weak minded.
YouTube

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: LetoII.3782

LetoII.3782

Cast times are bad all 3/4 that can be interrupted.

The necromancer subforum says “#&%$!@ you!”

3/4th second cast is fast by our standards.

Trade ya for death shroud and spectral armor

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

healer guard is kind of a niche forebrand brings it in line with druid tempest and scourge.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: RabbitUp.8294

RabbitUp.8294

healer guard is kind of a niche forebrand brings it in line with druid tempest and scourge.

The only healing firebrand has is locked behind a 45s cooldown tome, good luck with that.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Fashion Mage.3712

Fashion Mage.3712

healer guard is kind of a niche forebrand brings it in line with druid tempest and scourge.

The only healing firebrand has is locked behind a 45s cooldown tome, good luck with that.

That cooldown can be reduced quite a bit via traits I think.
The main issue is that healer guardians are not even remotely tanky, and thus will not be able to function with the minimal range from the new tomes. If you’ve ever played a healer guardian in PvP, it becomes clear that standing in close-range for too long will get you killed almost as fast as a glass staff ele. If something is squishy, they either need mobility or long-range to survive. The Firebrand has neither and doesn’t look remotely tanky to me.

A damage/support spec will never, ever function in close range (outside PvE) unless it’s also tanky, in which case it’s broken because it just excels at everything. Bad design is bad, as usual.

(edited by Fashion Mage.3712)

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Tongku.5326

Tongku.5326

healer guard is kind of a niche forebrand brings it in line with druid tempest and scourge.

The only healing firebrand has is locked behind a 45s cooldown tome, good luck with that.

That cooldown can be reduced quite a bit via traits I think.
The main issue is that healer guardians are not even remotely tanky, and thus will not be able to function with the minimal range from the new tomes. If you’ve ever played a healer guardian in PvP, it becomes clear that standing in close-range for too long will get you killed almost as fast as a glass staff ele. If something is squishy, they either need mobility or long-range to survive. The Firebrand has neither and doesn’t look remotely tanky to me.

A damage/support spec will never, ever function in close range (outside PvE) unless it’s also tanky, in which case it’s broken because it just excels at everything. Bad design is bad, as usual.

I kinda agree. The axe range. or rather complete and total lack of it kinda kills it. At 130 you cant hit anything thats even semi-mobile. Add to that jumping around, switching directions on the fly, etc. etc. and it becomes a useless weapon outside of PvE where targets are too stupid to move.

On all my specs I avoid all 130 range stuff pretty much across the board because of the above mentioned reason.

Heavy Deedz – COSA – SF

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: RabbitUp.8294

RabbitUp.8294

healer guard is kind of a niche forebrand brings it in line with druid tempest and scourge.

The only healing firebrand has is locked behind a 45s cooldown tome, good luck with that.

That cooldown can be reduced quite a bit via traits I think.
The main issue is that healer guardians are not even remotely tanky, and thus will not be able to function with the minimal range from the new tomes. If you’ve ever played a healer guardian in PvP, it becomes clear that standing in close-range for too long will get you killed almost as fast as a glass staff ele. If something is squishy, they either need mobility or long-range to survive. The Firebrand has neither and doesn’t look remotely tanky to me.

A damage/support spec will never, ever function in close range (outside PvE) unless it’s also tanky, in which case it’s broken because it just excels at everything. Bad design is bad, as usual.

It can be reduced by 15%, down to 38.25s. Hardly any difference. Then the tome itself have very minimal healing. You might as well play DH and use Wings.

The only perk is the trait that lets you keep Virtues’ passive effect, which should have been a core class trait.

I mainly pve, so I mostly judge the spec for that content, but I don’t see anything promising. It’s the same thing they did with alacrity on Ventari, the bare minimum, with Chrono still being the better choice for both buffs.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Fashion Mage.3712

Fashion Mage.3712

It can be reduced by 15%, down to 38.25s. Hardly any difference. Then the tome itself have very minimal healing. You might as well play DH and use Wings.

The only perk is the trait that lets you keep Virtues’ passive effect, which should have been a core class trait.

I mainly pve, so I mostly judge the spec for that content, but I don’t see anything promising. It’s the same thing they did with alacrity on Ventari, the bare minimum, with Chrono still being the better choice for both buffs.

Their cooldown can be reduced by 15% by the trait in virtues (assuming it reduces the cooldown of the tomes and not their skills) and reduced by a further 33% in the Firebrand line, but yes, the healing that the healing tome offers looks kind of garbage, but I suppose its possible that it has absurd scaling with healing power or something.

For PvE, it just offers condition cancer and quickness, so nothing particularly special as far as I can tell. For PvP, it puts a squishy damage/support spec with longish cast times into close range without instant-cast virtues to get them out of trouble (or the DH’s Wings of Resolve/Shield of Courage), so that’s probably as bad as it sounds. For WvW, it’s probably a good boon bot since the tomes are better versions of shouts now and mindless stacking is all that’s needed in that so range isn’t as necessary.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: RabbitUp.8294

RabbitUp.8294

The 33% trait affects tome skills. The tomes themselves are virtues, they don’t have the tome skill tag.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Fashion Mage.3712

Fashion Mage.3712

The 33% trait affects tome skills. The tomes themselves are virtues, they don’t have the tome skill tag.

Lel, looks like you’re right, nevermind then.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: benny.1796

benny.1796

So again we get most lazy most borring spec in next expansion.

Tomes? Support? Why support cause we have already very good support????

Just look at those amazing other elite specs bringing somethin NEW to their specs….

Again lazyness at its best.

Pretty sure Firebrand will be worst in raids(and unwelcomed), wvw roaming if we dont get excellent tome surviving skills …. (remember DH pre hot when it was crap??)

I am not hyped. at all…

People who tested a while ago (don’t know if it’s true) said it could provide decent condi DPS and perma quickness at the same time.

More condition damage. Thats what we need. vomits

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Magnuzone.8395

Magnuzone.8395

So again we get most lazy most borring spec in next expansion.

Tomes? Support? Why support cause we have already very good support????

Just look at those amazing other elite specs bringing somethin NEW to their specs….

Again lazyness at its best.

Pretty sure Firebrand will be worst in raids(and unwelcomed), wvw roaming if we dont get excellent tome surviving skills …. (remember DH pre hot when it was crap??)

I am not hyped. at all…

People who tested a while ago (don’t know if it’s true) said it could provide decent condi DPS and perma quickness at the same time.

More condition damage. Thats what we need. vomits

Ye its so sad

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Unknown.3976

Unknown.3976

U don’t necessarily have to go the condi route, the power route seems viable as well.

as we all know, there’s a firebrand trait that grant quickness whenever u drop aegis. You pair it with wrathful spirit (which grants retaliation when aegis ends), plus the recently buffed retaliation traits for further empowerment.

Condi is not necessarily the end-all, be-all; power-based firebrands seems intriguing and might even end up as a better hybrid/support spec. We might even see the return of the Mace.

Righteous Instinct + Retribution +Wrathful spirit + Stalwart Speed seems like a powerful combo. of course, until we get to test it, this is all speculation.

(edited by Unknown.3976)

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: RabbitUp.8294

RabbitUp.8294

U don’t necessarily have to go the condi route, the power route seems viable as well.

as we all know, there’s a firebrand trait that grant quickness whenever u drop aegis. You pair it with wrathful spirit (which grants retaliation when aegis ends), plus the recently buffed retaliation traits for further empowerment.

Condi is not necessarily the end-all, be-all; power-based firebrands seems intriguing and might even end up as a better hybrid/support spec. We might even see the return of the Mace.

Righteous Instinct + Retribution +Wrathful spirit + Stalwart Speed seems like a powerful combo. of course, until we get to test it, this is all speculation.

Hybrid looks very appealing, but firsg we need the right gear set for it, something without any precision.
Like Power, Ferocity, Condi or 4-stat with Expertise

(edited by RabbitUp.8294)

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: NotoriousNaru.1705

NotoriousNaru.1705

U don’t necessarily have to go the condi route, the power route seems viable as well.

as we all know, there’s a firebrand trait that grant quickness whenever u drop aegis. You pair it with wrathful spirit (which grants retaliation when aegis ends), plus the recently buffed retaliation traits for further empowerment.

Condi is not necessarily the end-all, be-all; power-based firebrands seems intriguing and might even end up as a better hybrid/support spec. We might even see the return of the Mace.

Righteous Instinct + Retribution +Wrathful spirit + Stalwart Speed seems like a powerful combo. of course, until we get to test it, this is all speculation.

Hybrid looks very appealing, but firsg we need the right gear set for it, something without any precision.
Like Power, Ferocity, Condi or 4-stat with Expertise

Any stat set without vitality for guardian is no good seeing as we have a base health pool of 11k(pvp). If there were no new stat combos introduced with the xpac, Sage’s amulet seems the most promising for a hybrid firebrand.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: FrownyClown.8402

FrownyClown.8402

Decided to read up on this specialization finally. Sounds like an op core ele. Its too bad that if you build anything without condi you are losing out on Tome of Justice damage.


Bad Elementalist

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

“To make your firebrand a supporting healer, consider taking the Loremaster and Archivist of Whispers traits. These will allow you to use Tome of Resolve—and its significant healing skills—more frequently.”

source:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/developer-diary-elite-specializations/

60 sec more frequently hahaha

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: otto.5684

otto.5684

U don’t necessarily have to go the condi route, the power route seems viable as well.

as we all know, there’s a firebrand trait that grant quickness whenever u drop aegis. You pair it with wrathful spirit (which grants retaliation when aegis ends), plus the recently buffed retaliation traits for further empowerment.

Condi is not necessarily the end-all, be-all; power-based firebrands seems intriguing and might even end up as a better hybrid/support spec. We might even see the return of the Mace.

Righteous Instinct + Retribution +Wrathful spirit + Stalwart Speed seems like a powerful combo. of course, until we get to test it, this is all speculation.

Hybrid looks very appealing, but firsg we need the right gear set for it, something without any precision.
Like Power, Ferocity, Condi or 4-stat with Expertise

Any stat set without vitality for guardian is no good seeing as we have a base health pool of 11k(pvp). If there were no new stat combos introduced with the xpac, Sage’s amulet seems the most promising for a hybrid firebrand.

I am expecting the most prominent sPvP build will be condition + quickness support + some healing using sage amulet.

PvE it will be somewhat similar, with more focus on 100% up time on quickness and aegis.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Darknicrofia.2604

Darknicrofia.2604

In PvE I expect FB could be completely DPS oriented

In the new benchmarks qT released, Guardians are already pushing tempest for close to #1 DPS on large hitboxes, Viper FB utilizing Zeal/Radiance/FB should easily outdamage the current power spec

Darknicrofia Sage – Bad Gerdian, Merciless Legend, Platinum NA Solo Que

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Knighthonor.4061

Knighthonor.4061

Support and healing is my favorite role for most of my fun time in the game when I played. Loved the druid. Hope the healing is fun as well

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Unknown.3976

Unknown.3976

In PvE I expect FB could be completely DPS oriented

In the new benchmarks qT released, Guardians are already pushing tempest for close to #1 DPS on large hitboxes, Viper FB utilizing Zeal/Radiance/FB should easily outdamage the current power spec

Why would that be? Retaliation Guards are entirely power-based. Many of the Condi Traits are competing for the same slots as those retaliation traits; U can only pick either one. And burn guard is already a thing, it’s just not optimal, firebrand might make it barely optimal but I don’t see it being top dps; the axe is pretty subpar for a condi wpn, those condi durations are woefully short (1 sec), FB probably have to rely on Tomes to maintain respectable dps.

(edited by Unknown.3976)

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Darknicrofia.2604

Darknicrofia.2604

I think you’re entirely underestimating the impact the GM trait Loremaster will have on overall group and personal DPS

Darknicrofia Sage – Bad Gerdian, Merciless Legend, Platinum NA Solo Que

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Tenrai Senshi.2017

Tenrai Senshi.2017

I have a few concerns with firebrand. Flavor wise I actually think it’s quite cool, but aside from that, there’s a lot that doesn’t’ seem very practical.

- The first is the huge cooldown on tomes, which will limit their use quite drastically. Considering this is one of the highlights of the elite spec, it’s a bit sad to see such high cooldowns.

- Next is the fact that if we swap out DH, we basically lose what little mobility we had with wings of resolve, and get nothing to compensate for it. There are still no movement speed traits, and no new forms of mobility offered (I would have been happy if one of our mantras was just a short range teleport). I still see no reason why the devs neglect mobility for guardians, when every other class has much better access to it.

- Lastly, with the loss of DH, we also lose our active shield, which was a key factor in staying alive with Guardian in many situations. Couple this with the above mentioned loss of mobility, the lack of movement speed and the fact that Axe itself offers no forms of mobility or gap closers at all, and it becomes hard to imagine how we’d cope with a melee condition oriented build. (Sure, we get a pull to replace a gap closer, but pulls are less reliable and can be countered by stability, whereas gap closers are much more reliable as engage tools).

All-in-all, I can see Firebrand being great with a few tweaks, but right now it feels like a great idea that has not been 100% implemented well. Perhaps the beta weekend will change my opinion though.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Brutaly.6257

Brutaly.6257

(I would have been happy if one of our mantras was just a short range teleport).

I was actually thinking the exact thing this morning.

Why not making Mantra of Solace a 500+500+800 (numbers for illustration only) teleport and it heals in an aoe of the FB at the target area. Mantra with long casting as it is now and the teleports being instant.

This would also be a great compensation for the clunkiness in the tomes and casting times of the mantras.

This change alone would/could make it some what more pleasant to play in wvw and pvp.

EDIT: And it would also be one of the coolest skills in the game. I would drop my thief roamer for this tbh.

(edited by Brutaly.6257)

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

I have a few concerns with firebrand. Flavor wise I actually think it’s quite cool, but aside from that, there’s a lot that doesn’t’ seem very practical.

- The first is the huge cooldown on tomes, which will limit their use quite drastically. Considering this is one of the highlights of the elite spec, it’s a bit sad to see such high cooldowns.

- Next is the fact that if we swap out DH, we basically lose what little mobility we had with wings of resolve, and get nothing to compensate for it. There are still no movement speed traits, and no new forms of mobility offered (I would have been happy if one of our mantras was just a short range teleport). I still see no reason why the devs neglect mobility for guardians, when every other class has much better access to it.

- Lastly, with the loss of DH, we also lose our active shield, which was a key factor in staying alive with Guardian in many situations. Couple this with the above mentioned loss of mobility, the lack of movement speed and the fact that Axe itself offers no forms of mobility or gap closers at all, and it becomes hard to imagine how we’d cope with a melee condition oriented build. (Sure, we get a pull to replace a gap closer, but pulls are less reliable and can be countered by stability, whereas gap closers are much more reliable as engage tools).

All-in-all, I can see Firebrand being great with a few tweaks, but right now it feels like a great idea that has not been 100% implemented well. Perhaps the beta weekend will change my opinion though.

Thats why I dont get this spec, it supposed to be melee condi/support spec but with no active defenses with 300 range mantras with no movement trait nor boon (except final elite for crappy 5 sec swiftnes), 1400 heal per heal mantra use (1400+1400+1800=4600heal), axe symbol cripple(which is worst cause some classes are immune to them).
Tomes are 30,60,90 cd with maybe 2000 heal in f2(all 5 skills used) no block in f3.

After this test weekend when ppl will realize how firebrand has no survival I suggest:

Mantra trait gives 5 sec of swiftness on all mantras baseline.(this will make firebrand finally good movement elite)
All tomes act like engineer kits(you can go inside or out as you like but when you use it for the first time u use stablity and stun break of a virtue and virtues (not tomes) go on 90 sec recharge.)
F3 reflect bubble also acts like ward so noone can go inside it.
F1 needs to be nerfed cause of Kit change.
Add trait that gives protection for 3 sec after aegis has been used.
Add superspeed to some F3 skill
Increase cd’s of tome skills.

This will make this class desirable and complicated.

(edited by Ragnarox.9601)

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Rodzynald.5897

Rodzynald.5897

Overall Firebrand appears to be good, as a concept that is. PvE is a completely different game where you can go with pretty much everything and do relatively well aside from raid content. But in WvW and PvP I see Firebrands as something that gets into the fray, burns down cooldowns and then ends up as a chicken ready for slaughter if his support didn’t work out well enough to empower the team.
In every game we can see that mobility > healing/staying power. Sooner or later someone/something will kill you when you make a mistake and if you don’t make mistakes, there will be a situation when you will be forced to a point you will fail if those beside you can’t fight well even with your support. Devs were so bent over granting a lot of things to everyone, but guardians/necros don’t have a good way for FREE mobility (free because I am not talking about guard teleports which need a target so it’s bound to the fact if a certain situation favors you at a given moment).
Druid has a staff with a strong mobility tool that heals along the way, easy access to celestial form for massive ammounts of healing while being able to outsustain enemies. No wonder it is a top pick among high ranks, a strong skirmisher that can always burst heal or escape from a fight on demand without giving out much.

Now I don’t know who is in charge of guardian class, but it really makes me wonder how it was a good idea to implement such short range on tomes and mantras? If that’s the deal, then Firebrand should come with a free +4k health or at least a significant boost to toughness because I already see that red bullseye over my head all the time and with lack of mobility all my boons are going to be stripped by spellbreakers, corrupted by necros, stolen by thieves or whatever. Until now I could do some nice kiting as a DH, sometimes with wings or greatsword, it was a nice combo, a reliable one. Now our survival will depend on how well your team fights. You may boost their combat capabilities with FB but that doesn’t mean the enemy team/side won’t have a FB too who, let’s say, is on the same level as you. As I like to say sometimes "you can’t and you won’t carry a deadweight for too long" (actually "deadweight" is replaced here, I tend to use a rather... juicy word but let’s be nice here)

So in the long run it is a dang good spec as an idea of how it looks. But for quality’s sake, who makes a support in short range? Ventari rev is not an exception, it has a staff which is good now, and the build is more of a bunker than a hard support.

If staff nerf is not reversed, at least make it a strong support melee weapon like rev’s but with guardian themed skills.
#1 First skill chain could be: 1. Hit your foe 2. Hit your foe again and grant vigor (2-3 seconds - more frequent dodges so we don’t have to tank it up all the time) 3. Hit your foe for the third time and grant aegis to you and your allies (OR) Hit your foe for the third time and perform a 600 range cone that heals allies.
#2 Just a burst of heal and damage around you in 600 range
#3 So you tap your staff or smth, symbol as it is, but it follows you as you move and grant superspeed in the last second of the duration of the symbol (2s) (but only if traited - that’s more mobility for staff to kite instead tanking damage to the face against unblockable attacks)
#4 Let it heal as it is now, but now you can move around (at least whirling wrath speed)
#5 Ward’s cool as it is, solid skill.

Guardian is meant for jolly crusading.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Brutaly.6257

Brutaly.6257

  1. First skill chain could be: 1. Hit your foe 2. Hit your foe again and grant vigor (2-3 seconds – more frequent dodges so we don’t have to tank it up all the time) 3. Hit your foe for the third time and grant aegis to you and your allies (OR) Hit your foe for the third time and perform a 600 range cone that heals allies.
  2. Just a burst of heal and damage around you in 600 range
  3. So you tap your staff or smth, symbol as it is, but it follows you as you move and grant superspeed in the last second of the duration of the symbol (2s) (but only if traited – that’s more mobility for staff to kite instead tanking damage to the face against unblockable attacks)
  4. Let it heal as it is now, but now you can move around (at least whirling wrath speed)
  5. Ward’s cool as it is, solid skill.

I hope the devs read this, it would be a huge improvement.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Ghotistyx.6942

Ghotistyx.6942

1. Or just keep it the same and add a healing component to the attack
2. Worse than it is now
3. let this meme die
4. w/e
5. ya

Fishsticks

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Rodzynald.5897

Rodzynald.5897

1. Or just keep it the same and add a healing component to the attack
2. Worse than it is now
3. let this meme die
4. w/e
5. ya

What’s wrong with 2 and 3? Besides, with this change you could nicely chain 3 and 4
As for #2 it would be a safe heal, no risk of projectile hate and you would be sure to land it right among your team for an AoE blast heal with damage for about 7 sec cooldown untraited.

Guardian is meant for jolly crusading.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: momophily.3814

momophily.3814

I keep seeing the term “best”, best at what? You need to define your game mode. I hate Raids and SPvP then i love Fractals, WvW and open world. What is best for me in a WvW raid will not be best in a true PvE Raid instance and probably will not be the best in fractals. Like wise, i don’t run my fractal build in WvW either. Don’t assume your content is the only content.

What Firebrand brings is options that may or may not be optimal in a give game mode. I hope it has the Condi DPS to shine in PvE and it will certainly broaden the support options. I’ve also wanted to play a true condi Guard for sometime, so i’m happy about the Axe.

But whether this elite spec will outshine other specs/classes in a give role remains to be seen. Everything else is speculation until after PoF drops and we’ve had a chance to evaluate each class by the community and how they stack up aginst each other. Even after the event this weekend is over, we’ll have a better idea. But that won’t be enough for a true evaluation.

(edited by momophily.3814)

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

haha sooo following stream for Firebrand:

-Firebrand mantras are cone and not 360 aoe -> cone 300 range. -1
-Tomes have huge cd’s – I am worried you cant cast skills while walking -1
- Huge fire dmg on F1 to Heavy golem. +1
- No defensives, its gonna be glass canon not a tank, do dmg or die there is no escape. -1
- Again no movement speed (wish they add rune of the lynx then to wvw and pve https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Lynx) -1
- I’ll probably go for celestial armor combo for wvw.
- They did not show 4th mantra.
- RF still better than elite. -1
- F2 heal is not that great. -1
- Heal still sucks.

We will see tomorrow.

The stream:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/167733328?t=15m00s

(edited by Ragnarox.9601)

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: phokus.8934

phokus.8934

Irino failed at designing Firebrand. I don’t understand how they can overlook the obvious that Guardian’s need.

I post from a phone so please excuse any references to ducks or any other auto corrections.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

Irino failed at designing Firebrand. I don’t understand how they can overlook the obvious that Guardian’s need.

Noone understands guardian cause we are in a good spot from 2012.
Firebrand seems excellent on static golem. They forgot that ppl move in wvw and pvp…. Plus 300 cone….. Its like staff nerf, FB is condi turtle lootstick.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: phokus.8934

phokus.8934

Irino failed at designing Firebrand. I don’t understand how they can overlook the obvious that Guardian’s need.

Noone understands guardian cause we are in a good spot from 2012.
Firebrand seems excellent on static golem. They forgot that ppl move in wvw and pvp…. Plus 300 cone….. Its like staff nerf, FB is condi turtle lootstick.

Yeah that’s exactly what I mean. How can they sit in a room and design a class that is frontline based on the axe skills, mantras that are in a cone, utterly subpar healing, no movement speed increases, no real defensive skills, and call it a good balanced PvP spec.

I’m probably being overly salty here but a kitten smells like a kitten no matter how you dress it up.

I post from a phone so please excuse any references to ducks or any other auto corrections.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Myxam.2790

Myxam.2790

Why support cause we have already very good support????

Ahahahahaha

Its not laughable we are best at support, I actually was hoping to get healing spec more.

Best at support? Which support are you talking about? Damage support? Druid has it. Healing support? Druid also has it. Also revenant and ele heal better. Quickness? Chrono has it. Only thing we have is buffs and revenant do that better than we do and even they are not in the meta.

You are mixing healing with support. Healing is healing, support is support.
Look at wvw and pvp, support guardian is always wanted. When a Druid you are instantly kicked out of raids in wvw and you should know why.
Our dps is not meta. And we have no healing spec.
Elite spec gives us another support spec saddly.

If every player didn’t have access to enough healing to be self-reliant if skilled enough, there’s no need for the distinction between Healing and Support. Support is anything that benefits allies other than oneself.

The only reason we’re desired in WvW is our AoE Stability, which no other class can give without restrictions in ways its applied. That’s it. Its not the healing, because that’s done with primarily Water Fields and Finishers because they have a larger effect number than any class is capable of, and since WvW is less about your personal DPS and more about how much Stab, HP, and the number of bodies hitting targets.

Guardian is pretty bottom barrel when it comes to Support in PvE, PvP, or WvW. Heck, Warriors at this point do everything they’d be capable of in WvW (CC, Healing, Condi Removal).

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: momophily.3814

momophily.3814

But kiss goodbye to our WvW role after the Warrior elite boon strips… Guardian is now a class that may do ok DPS (I hope in Condi, cause it’s not there in Power). But a class that is undesirable in most game modes, as other classes outshine the guard’s original/sub-par “support” through boons. Meaning other classes will be taken while the guard collects dust as it is irrelevant.

We were alright support at launch, but now support guard is a joke. It’s actually the Core guardian that is the “support” problem and its reliance on bland boons that every other class produces, it cannot keep up with the new support Elite Specs. And our new “support” options are not helping. Not enough effect, to short of range and just doesn’t cut it in melee. The only thing it may do right in support is its protection application. But very few people want to run hammer do to its speed and the fact that targets move.

Combine that with the abysmal range and the complete lack of mobility (short of the DH virtue and 2 target dependent blinks… which isn’t enough) and we’re going to continue to struggle.

The guardians Core design of being a main source of group boons is what is actually going to hold it back. Support has evolved to the 2017 meta and this class is still playing in the 2012 game.

The only hope Guardian has in the next expansion is if they are on top of the DPS meters with Condi damage. If FB isn’t, stick a fork in it.

(edited by momophily.3814)

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

Irino failed at designing Firebrand. I don’t understand how they can overlook the obvious that Guardian’s need.

because it’s a fallacy that elite specs are designed to fill some needs?

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Baseleader.4128

Baseleader.4128

Just goes to show how ppl love to whine on the forums. Firebrand looked very good, loads of new stuff, high condi DPS, lot of support. It’s gonna be a beast in WvW

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: LetoII.3782

LetoII.3782

Burning, stability, aegis, Regen, swiftness, quickness.

Which is the new stuff?

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: momophily.3814

momophily.3814

Just goes to show how ppl love to whine on the forums. Firebrand looked very good, loads of new stuff, high condi DPS, lot of support. It’s gonna be a beast in WvW

If you look at it in isolation, in terms of the Guardian in a bubble and only confined against one game type. Ya, it may be a good DPS build for high end PvE. And it will probably expand our options in WvW.

But my enthusiasm ended once I started comparing it against what other classes have received through the two Elite Specializations. I’m looking forward to having a Burning/Bleed weapon and another Burn utility; but a condi weapon is something Core guardian should have had. HoT addressed some of the problems with Guard but fell short of many other elite specs in terms of dedicated endgame damage or dedicated support. Now we get a second elite spec that again addresses a Core missing element, which also removes our mobility “fix” from HoT, and adds sub-par support that is less effective than the current support classes. existing power creep in GW2 suggests that our new elite support should be equal to, or better than the current top support options. If not, what’s the point?

New skills need to impact and drive the current meta; or at the very least, compete with it. If not, don’t bother giving us a lack luster options that is at best 3rd or 4th place. probably lower.

Keep the Axe, that part is probably fine and I’m honestly looking forward to the Condi build. But the support is kitten compared to the current support meta, on a class that was designed around group support, with the gain of a dedicated support elite spec… I want an option that will make the guardian relevant to the current meta as a support option in Raids or WvW. I don’t want the 4 or 5th string selection in terms of support. I want this:
“Guardians are devoted fighters who protect their allies and smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their virtues. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfless defenders who know how to empower their allies to achieve victory.” https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/guardian/

(edited by momophily.3814)

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: RabbitUp.8294

RabbitUp.8294

Just goes to show how ppl love to whine on the forums. Firebrand looked very good, loads of new stuff, high condi DPS, lot of support. It’s gonna be a beast in WvW

“loads of new stuff, lot of support”

If you can’t specify, it just goes to show you have no leg to stand on. We know every single skill and trait of firebrand, we don’t need a dev stream to wow at.

Yes, it looked good burning those low health golems. Did you see it in wvw getting boonstripped to hell and blown up in seconds? Did you see it in raids being a watered-down chrono? Did you see it in pvp trying to fight at 300 range with no mobility or defences?

(edited by RabbitUp.8294)

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

Just goes to show how ppl love to whine on the forums. Firebrand looked very good, loads of new stuff, high condi DPS, lot of support. It’s gonna be a beast in WvW

“loads of new stuff, lot of support”

If you can’t specify, it just goes to show you have no leg to stand on. We know every single skill and trait of firebrand, we don’t need a dev stream to wow at.

Yes, it looked good burning those low health golems. Did you see it in wvw getting boonstripped to hell and blown up in seconds? Did you see it in raids being a watered-down chrono? Did you see it in pvp trying to fight at 300 range with no mobility or defences?

Why do people assume that the spec was even built for PVP/WvW focus? We already know from past experience that Anet isn’t doing this. For example, scrapper was a PVP focused spec. It doesn’t even make sense to say that the spec isn’t good because it doesn’t do this or that. That’s been true of the game since day one with the core professions.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

Just goes to show how ppl love to whine on the forums. Firebrand looked very good, loads of new stuff, high condi DPS, lot of support. It’s gonna be a beast in WvW

“loads of new stuff, lot of support”

If you can’t specify, it just goes to show you have no leg to stand on. We know every single skill and trait of firebrand, we don’t need a dev stream to wow at.

Yes, it looked good burning those low health golems. Did you see it in wvw getting boonstripped to hell and blown up in seconds? Did you see it in raids being a watered-down chrono? Did you see it in pvp trying to fight at 300 range with no mobility or defences?

Why do people assume that the spec was even built for PVP/WvW focus? We already know from past experience that Anet isn’t doing this. For example, scrapper was a PVP focused spec. It doesn’t even make sense to say that the spec isn’t good because it doesn’t do this or that. That’s been true of the game since day one with the core professions.

So FB is meant to be raiding spec, for 5% ppl? Compared to DH which is raid, wvw,pvp this is then straight downgrade and that is not good. Guardians are ignored so many years.

And look Weaver and Scourge got new barrier mechanic, ok for scourge but why weaver, they have so many defensive stuff + healing, this will make them gods, and guardian does not get barrier at all. Such an irony.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

guys, it is ANet @ balance and skill design… nothing much to say….just look asside, bow your head and move along, and keep wishing someday we have a dev that likes to play guardian.

DH was all about build to achieve power creep momentum, and players after noticing the condi being the easiest way to spam and win wth lesser effort and risk, players wanted conditions, Anet need to make FB better than core as well, so they added fire stuff in a core guardian on steroids…. so players could feel the need of getting the new shinny stuff.

P.S how u guys are hoping to deal with range damage skills or burst, blost are useless against those an some are unblokcable.
ANet even managed to kill the SW SoA dome…SW skills lost alot of good things with this changes… the SW dome is far more useless now when it works than before.
The old SW’s would even fit better on a FB than the command only effect…

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

(edited by Aeolus.3615)

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: RabbitUp.8294

RabbitUp.8294

Just goes to show how ppl love to whine on the forums. Firebrand looked very good, loads of new stuff, high condi DPS, lot of support. It’s gonna be a beast in WvW

“loads of new stuff, lot of support”

If you can’t specify, it just goes to show you have no leg to stand on. We know every single skill and trait of firebrand, we don’t need a dev stream to wow at.

Yes, it looked good burning those low health golems. Did you see it in wvw getting boonstripped to hell and blown up in seconds? Did you see it in raids being a watered-down chrono? Did you see it in pvp trying to fight at 300 range with no mobility or defences?

Why do people assume that the spec was even built for PVP/WvW focus? We already know from past experience that Anet isn’t doing this. For example, scrapper was a PVP focused spec. It doesn’t even make sense to say that the spec isn’t good because it doesn’t do this or that. That’s been true of the game since day one with the core professions.

It won’t have a place in raids either.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Fashion Mage.3712

Fashion Mage.3712

Yes, it looked good burning those low health golems. Did you see it in wvw getting boonstripped to hell and blown up in seconds? Did you see it in raids being a watered-down chrono? Did you see it in pvp trying to fight at 300 range with no mobility or defences?

^This.

If guardians actually pop up in raids, it’ll be because they can share signet passives. I don’t see why anyone would want to bother with 300-range cone support over just using a druid or chronomancer.

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: momophily.3814

momophily.3814

Just goes to show how ppl love to whine on the forums. Firebrand looked very good, loads of new stuff, high condi DPS, lot of support. It’s gonna be a beast in WvW

“loads of new stuff, lot of support”

If you can’t specify, it just goes to show you have no leg to stand on. We know every single skill and trait of firebrand, we don’t need a dev stream to wow at.

Yes, it looked good burning those low health golems. Did you see it in wvw getting boonstripped to hell and blown up in seconds? Did you see it in raids being a watered-down chrono? Did you see it in pvp trying to fight at 300 range with no mobility or defences?

Why do people assume that the spec was even built for PVP/WvW focus? We already know from past experience that Anet isn’t doing this. For example, scrapper was a PVP focused spec. It doesn’t even make sense to say that the spec isn’t good because it doesn’t do this or that. That’s been true of the game since day one with the core professions.

This is a flawed thought process. No class should be designed around a single game mode, but to assume that a class and elite spec should be able to function in Raids, WvW and SPvP is expected; as that is roughly half the available game content… what eles are they designing it for? Living world season 4?

Yes, it looked good burning those low health golems. Did you see it in wvw getting boonstripped to hell and blown up in seconds? Did you see it in raids being a watered-down chrono? Did you see it in pvp trying to fight at 300 range with no mobility or defences?

^This.

If guardians actually pop up in raids, it’ll be because they can share signet passives. I don’t see why anyone would want to bother with 300-range cone support over just using a druid or chronomancer.

Yes this exactly. The new elite spec has to complete with existing options, you can not evaluate a class in a vacume.

(edited by momophily.3814)

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

Just goes to show how ppl love to whine on the forums. Firebrand looked very good, loads of new stuff, high condi DPS, lot of support. It’s gonna be a beast in WvW

“loads of new stuff, lot of support”

If you can’t specify, it just goes to show you have no leg to stand on. We know every single skill and trait of firebrand, we don’t need a dev stream to wow at.

Yes, it looked good burning those low health golems. Did you see it in wvw getting boonstripped to hell and blown up in seconds? Did you see it in raids being a watered-down chrono? Did you see it in pvp trying to fight at 300 range with no mobility or defences?

Why do people assume that the spec was even built for PVP/WvW focus? We already know from past experience that Anet isn’t doing this. For example, scrapper was a PVP focused spec. It doesn’t even make sense to say that the spec isn’t good because it doesn’t do this or that. That’s been true of the game since day one with the core professions.

So FB is meant to be raiding spec, for 5% ppl?

I dunno … maybe it is. Does that change what I said? My point is pretty simple. I don’t think Anet designs any spec with the intention to be spectacular for any aspect of the game, no less every aspect. That’s simply not what happens if you look at the history of the game. These are just flavours for a profession; they aren’t necessarily bandaids for something a profession lacks, or that people want. I mean, that much should be obvious to anyone following this game since it’s release. To complain about it is nonsense.

This is a flawed thought process. No class should be designed around a single game mode, but to assume that a class and elite spec should be able to function in Raids, WvW and SPvP is expected; as that is roughly half the available game content… what eles are they designing it for? Living world season 4?

That is my point; Anet doesn’t design classes around the different aspects of the game. They are not designing FOR anything, other than exactly what their idea is for the spec. It’s up to the players to decide how they want to use that toolset … and if the spec is indeed only good for 5% of players who raid, then so be it. That simply demonstrates to Anet the boundaries of how that spec’s bundle of skills,traits and effects are used with the current content of the game. I see nothing here that indicates there is a problem. If anything, outlining those boundaries are a great indication of an opportunity for Anet to expand game content.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

Firebrand!?!?

in Guardian

Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

Well after some testing in wvw here are my thoughts:

F1 is ok maybe they will nerf it.
F2 need some slight changes:
– 3 needs to have blast effect so we can do 4 (waterfield)→3
- heals are not that strong, in celestial I heal 850 with skill 1 so at least we need some blast to blast that water.
F3 have enormous cd, it needs to be shaved a bit.

Mantras: well they are fun but elite needs aegis like heal. Its nothing special to take instead RF. or at least some protection + swiftness not on final.

Mantra trait is not that good compared to giving quickness buff to party.
Legendary lore trait should be grandmaster and with slight buffs, tome cd trait should swap places with it.