Guild Wars 2

Here is a genius idea. Fix the most broken autoattack in the game in Guard scepter. Its been what, since beta that this has been in game? No attack in the game is more broken and worthless than scepter autoattack. How about next patch we finally take care of this obviously “MINOR” problem that clearly has no effect on gameplay at all!

They could take some of that heatseaking they removed from the thief bow and apply it to the guardian scepter. If it’s going to have the slowest projectiles in the game, they need to have at least a bit of homing…

Longbow 1 on ranger has broken-ness trumped here. It’s actual time is double it’s tooltip, and it’s slow enough that nobody should ever be hit by it. Oh, yeah, it’s damage falls dramatically as baddies close.

I’ll grant scepter second place though.

A change will appear, eventually.

Staff plays nicely for a range weapon right now, it’s doesn’t hit as far as the Scepter would, but is much more reliable with its AoE AA and Orb that make it a really good option offensively along with buffing, healing and CC capabilities as everybody knows.

Or simply don’t go ranged and enhance closing gaps on melee sporting a Sword for a 600 range teleport and/or Judge Intervention along with it for a crazy ground covering distance.

I’m sorry, you are posting in the wrong place. Anet do not frequent this forum.

Go post your idea on a random twitter account, you have more chance of Anet responding than posting in the guardian forum.

i think slowest attack still goes to necro staff auto … dat kitten was slow
i remember almost being able to outwalk it

Raptured.9307:

i think slowest attack still goes to necro staff auto … dat kitten was slow
i remember almost being able to outwalk it

The speed got buffed, not sure how it compensates to scepter auto now but the problem is that necro`s got more options to ranged dps which are a guaranteed hit or otherwise viable dps to moving targets. Guardians do not however… if a target moves at 1200 range, we do 0 dps. No way to change this.

It’s very obvious that #1 skills on most ranged weapons need some re-tuning on their attack speeds vs. damage stats. It’s actually an across-the-board problem affecting almost everything, the only exceptions are the Rifle, the Ranger’s Shortbow, and the Mesmer’s Greatsword.

1. skills for Longbows, Pistols, Staffs, and Scepters across professions have a very slow rate of fire for the damage they do. Unsurprisingly, those sets tend to not get used very much. I don’t know what they’re smoking to have not addressed this yet.

The staff would be quite fitting for a ranged weapon if its auto-attack had longer range and a narrower cone (something which is also frequently mentioned). As it is now, it’s relatively decent for a ranged weapon, I guess.

Cameirus.8407:

I’m sorry, you are posting in the wrong place. Anet do not frequent this forum.

Go post your idea on a random twitter account, you have more chance of Anet responding than posting in the guardian forum.

Doth my eyes deceive me? I do believe that’s a dev. looking into scepter.

Also. Scepter isn’t terrible in PvE when creatures aren’t moving, the only issue is that it’s boring to use and really only has two dps options. In WvW you’d may as well fight with a plastic picnic spoon, because you’ll rarely hit anything.

I knew my sacrifice yesterday would call upon the revered Developer, but alas, I did not expect it so happen so shortly after.

Please look at ranger’s Ricochet (mainhand axe) auto as well. Its damage is outright horrendous.

Necro staff deserves similar treatment. Necros and guardians have very weak ranged autoattacks.

JonPeters.5630:

I’ll take a look at how it compares to Necro staff auto. I will say that when this does hit it is the highest DPS #1 skill in the game. We wanted it to feel this powerful but difficult to land but the effect may be too exaggerated. I’ll play some PvE and PvP scepter Guardian later today.

Jon

Thanks for responding Jon, I think its long overdue.

It maybe the highest dps in the game WHEN it hits. Problem is in pvp it never does really. The attacks are so slow and tend to miss the target even if they move slightly.

Also smite is just as bad. Sometimes the attacks do not register. Fixing skills 1 and 2 for scepter would be a big improvement. I’d actually use the weapon!

This video explains everything:

My biggest problem with the scepter, is how boring to play it is. Guardian’s scepter is desperately needing of some extra functionality, maybe by having one of its three skills a follow-up sequence skill, or an interrupt somewhere there, or anything. :P

Aza.2105:

JonPeters.5630:

I’ll take a look at how it compares to Necro staff auto. I will say that when this does hit it is the highest DPS #1 skill in the game. We wanted it to feel this powerful but difficult to land but the effect may be too exaggerated. I’ll play some PvE and PvP scepter Guardian later today.

Jon

Thanks for responding Jon, I think its long overdue.

It maybe the highest dps in the game WHEN it hits. Problem is in pvp it never does really. The attacks are so slow and tend to miss the target even if they move slightly.

Also smite is just as bad. Sometimes the attacks do not register. Fixing skills 1 and 2 for scepter would be a big improvement. I’d actually use the weapon!

What is shown in the video can be done with every single projectile based attack in the game. Go play Necromancer with a staff and you’ll QQ, your scepter is perfectly viable.

Noerknhar.3826:

Aza.2105:

JonPeters.5630:

I’ll take a look at how it compares to Necro staff auto. I will say that when this does hit it is the highest DPS #1 skill in the game. We wanted it to feel this powerful but difficult to land but the effect may be too exaggerated. I’ll play some PvE and PvP scepter Guardian later today.

Jon

Thanks for responding Jon, I think its long overdue.

It maybe the highest dps in the game WHEN it hits. Problem is in pvp it never does really. The attacks are so slow and tend to miss the target even if they move slightly.

Also smite is just as bad. Sometimes the attacks do not register. Fixing skills 1 and 2 for scepter would be a big improvement. I’d actually use the weapon!

What is shown in the video can be done with every single projectile based attack in the game. Go play Necromancer with a staff and you’ll QQ, your scepter is perfectly viable.

Please stay on topic, if you have necromancer problems then post it on the necro forums and hope a developer gets back to you.

JonPeters.5630:

I’ll take a look at how it compares to Necro staff auto. I will say that when this does hit it is the highest DPS #1 skill in the game. We wanted it to feel this powerful but difficult to land but the effect may be too exaggerated. I’ll play some PvE and PvP scepter Guardian later today.

Jon

Since you mentioned necro staff #1, can you play him with staff after playing guardian with scepter?

And I see Guardians in my party use that auto attack all the time. >_<

@Jon
Thx for posting

The clip above shows one of the issues and the second issue is that you can simply outrun the orb on skill one.

If you are at 600 range or more it can be done by just running away from the guardian and if you are closer than 600 all you need is to get swiftness to outrun it.

Most of the issues can be solved by just adding speed and it would become much more viable.

O_O ………….

<- Surprised but glad that this got looked at

JonPeters.5630:

Ok Necro staff is 22% faster than this skill. I think we just missed upping this when we did our pass to up projectile velocity on skills that were absolutely too sluggish. That being said it looks like you can fire one of these orbs every .8 seconds whereas Necro staff fire rate is 1.3 seconds. Grasp does pass through targets in a line so I feel that differential is fairly warranted. I can’t promise when this is going to be fixed, but I can say I WILL fix it.

Best news I’ve heard all day. It being the highest DPS #1 skill in the game doesn’t really make Guardians feel better when it’s also probably the most frustrating one we have due to the slow speed, and also the only real long range weapon we can use.

That also means necro staff won’t get any fix……

drawing circles in a corner

What is this I don’t even

Afya.5842:

That also means necro staff won’t get any fix……

drawing circles in a corner

What needs to be fixed with Necro Staff? (As a Guardian, I am sometimes oblivious to issues with other classes)

If player and target have speed buff both will run faster than the orbs from scepter, the orbs will be always behind the caster.

Whoah O_O

Looking forward to it :o

Jon, can you post some numbers backing up the claim that Scepter 1 is the highest DPS auto in the game? Cause unless I’m missing something huge, I’m not seeing it.

I’m in the mists right now at the target golems with a steady weapon setup and no armor/trinket/traits. Scepter 1 hits the Light Golem for 68 damage a pop. If I stand there and attack for say, 10 seconds, I should get 12-13 hits depending on how accurate I am with this stopwatch. Say 12.5 attacks, times 68 damage per, for 850 damage over 10 seconds or 85 DPS.

However, if I switch to greatsword, I can get off 4 autoattack cycles in 10 seconds. At 89-89-133 damage every swing (ignoring the might stack), that, 311 damage per chain, and 1244 damage over the 10s for 124.4 DPS. And that’s just Guardian GS1, not even looking at folks like Thief Dagger1 or Warrior Axe1 (which is actually the highest #1 in the game).

Am I missing something here that makes Scepter 1 the highest DPS #1 attack in the game?

Kami.7369:

Afya.5842:

That also means necro staff won’t get any fix……

drawing circles in a corner

What needs to be fixed with Necro Staff? (As a Guardian, I am sometimes oblivious to issues with other classes)

Also the auto #1 imo. Even it’s 22% faster than guardian scepter(lol), you can still dodge it without dodging. And from experience I think guardian’s scepter actually trace the target, I mean it turns. Necro’s staff however, goes in a straight line. The piercing isn’t that useful imo (some may argue) as it’s not a main source of damage and all it does is pull the mob behind your actual target.

I’m guessing he meant ranged auto. Glad this is getting looked at, I enjoy scepter but it’s weak atm

wow after all this time scepter is finally getting projectile buff…. cant wait!

Broadicea.8294:

Jon, can you post some numbers backing up the claim that Scepter 1 is the highest DPS auto in the game? Cause unless I’m missing something huge, I’m not seeing it.

I’m in the mists right now at the target golems with a steady weapon setup and no armor/trinket/traits. Scepter 1 hits the Light Golem for 68 damage a pop. If I stand there and attack for say, 10 seconds, I should get 12-13 hits depending on how accurate I am with this stopwatch. Say 12.5 attacks, times 68 damage per, for 850 damage over 10 seconds or 85 DPS.

However, if I switch to greatsword, I can get off 4 autoattack cycles in 10 seconds. At 89-89-133 damage every swing (ignoring the might stack), that, 311 damage per chain, and 1244 damage over the 10s for 124.4 DPS. And that’s just Guardian GS1, not even looking at folks like Thief Dagger1 or Warrior Axe1 (which is actually the highest #1 in the game).

Am I missing something here that makes Scepter 1 the highest DPS #1 attack in the game?

I think you should try comparing ranged weapons as you can’t compare ranged dps to melee dps.

Aveneo.2068:

I think you should try comparing ranged weapons as you can’t compare ranged dps to melee dps.

“I will say that when this does hit it is the highest DPS #1 skill in the game.” That’s a pretty unambiguous statement. But I went ahead and looked at some other ranged weapons anyway. Ranger SB 1 can get off 20 shots in 10 seconds for 43 damage, which is 86 DPS. Ranger LB 1 can get off 9 shots in 10s for 98 each, so 88 DPS. 88 is higher than 85 (guardian’s scepter1), so uhhh, QED?

Edited to add: perhaps there’s a skill coefficient to modify the base crit chance, but with this same steady weapon tests in the mists I’m still seeing the same 4% base that my character currently has (for scepter 1).

Aza.2105:

It maybe the highest dps in the game WHEN it hits. Problem is in pvp it never does really. The attacks are so slow and tend to miss the target even if they move slightly.

Also smite is just as bad. Sometimes the attacks do not register. Fixing skills 1 and 2 for scepter would be a big improvement. I’d actually use the weapon!

Don’t guardians have multiple immobilizes and stuns?
Have you tried chaining these into close range scepter spam?

Guardians don’t have stuns…warrior have it.

JonPeters.5630:

I will say that when this does hit it is the highest DPS #1 skill in the game.

Is it really?

What about warrior and necro axe? Guardian staff? Greatsword? It’s not even aoe and not really highest dps =\

Necro axe is terrible, why are you bringing necro axe up? Its autoattack is among the worst in the game after Ricochet.

I think you may have meant necro dagger. And necro dagger is melee and doesn’t cleave like other melee weapons.

fadeaway.2807:

Aza.2105:

It maybe the highest dps in the game WHEN it hits. Problem is in pvp it never does really. The attacks are so slow and tend to miss the target even if they move slightly.

Also smite is just as bad. Sometimes the attacks do not register. Fixing skills 1 and 2 for scepter would be a big improvement. I’d actually use the weapon!

Don’t guardians have multiple immobilizes and stuns?
Have you tried chaining these into close range scepter spam?

Yes they have a few, but even when immobilized sometimes all of the aoe does not hit. And its a very long duration. Meaning even if the target is immobilzed for 2 secs, they may only get hit by 3 of the hits out of 15. IF it hits.

Having never played a guardian, and mostly focused on my thief, I was previously unaware of this entire realm of ultra-mega-broken-catastroph-fun. Now that my beloved shortbow has gotten a similar treatment, I am very much having a hard time articulating something more eloquent than “WTF!?!” in reaction.

Here’s to hoping this discussion thread is the start of some good changes all around to these benighted weapons.

Excelsior!

-Gralsh

Afya.5842:

Kami.7369:

Afya.5842:

That also means necro staff won’t get any fix……

drawing circles in a corner

What needs to be fixed with Necro Staff? (As a Guardian, I am sometimes oblivious to issues with other classes)

Also the auto #1 imo. Even it’s 22% faster than guardian scepter(lol), you can still dodge it without dodging. And from experience I think guardian’s scepter actually trace the target, I mean it turns. Necro’s staff however, goes in a straight line. The piercing isn’t that useful imo (some may argue) as it’s not a main source of damage and all it does is pull the mob behind your actual target.

The Guardian Scepter does not track at all.

JonPeters.5630:

I’ll take a look at how it compares to Necro staff auto. I will say that when this does hit it is the highest DPS #1 skill in the game. We wanted it to feel this powerful but difficult to land but the effect may be too exaggerated. I’ll play some PvE and PvP scepter Guardian later today.

Jon

Jon, while I agree that the Guardian scepter autoattack is off and appreciate you looking into it, I wanted to add that this phenomenon is actually widespread on ranged weapons across professions. I also think you’re overestimating the DPS that the Scepter #1 is capable of generating, it certainly is not the highest in the game and is probably beaten handedly by most melee sets.

Most ranged weapons have autoattack skills that seem poorly tuned on the speed vs. damage scale. By this I mean they have too long an aftercast and/or too slow a projectile speed for the damage they do. This seriously affects Longbows, Pistols, Staffs, and Scepters for most professions. Strangely, rifles and the ranger’s shortbow seem to be fine in comparison, because they fire quickly for their stats. Consequently, as an example, the warrior’s rifle obliterates the thief’s pistol in overall effectiveness. This basically means these weapons are very situational and not terribly competitive. I believe this to be the main reason those specific weapons are complained about so much on the forums, even if most players don’t realize why.

IMO this is one of the biggest offenders to class balance and build diversity in the game.

If you make projectiles in this game fast enough to where they have to actually be dodged in order to dodge, then there is no problem. If you are going to leave them so slow that simply jiggling the left and right buttons will allow a target to never be hit, then you need to make the projectiles track. Otherwise, your entire projectile mechanics system is simply broken.

JonPeters.5630:

I’ll take a look at how it compares to Necro staff auto. I will say that when this does hit it is the highest DPS #1 skill in the game. We wanted it to feel this powerful but difficult to land but the effect may be too exaggerated. I’ll play some PvE and PvP scepter Guardian later today.

Jon

Sounds good, except the forum trolls have no clue what they just asked you to do and you’re going to ‘fix’ something that isn’t broken.

I hope you see this: The problem isn’t that it’s difficult to land, the problem is that some fool that is strafing left to right very quickly can avoid scepter 100% of the time. There is a video of it somewhere and if anyone would post it or send it to you, you can assess for yourself the issue.

Obtena.7952:

JonPeters.5630:

I’ll take a look at how it compares to Necro staff auto. I will say that when this does hit it is the highest DPS #1 skill in the game. We wanted it to feel this powerful but difficult to land but the effect may be too exaggerated. I’ll play some PvE and PvP scepter Guardian later today.

Jon

Sounds good, except the forum trolls have no clue what they just asked you to do and you’re going to ‘fix’ something that isn’t broken.

I hope you see this: The problem isn’t that it’s difficult to land, the problem is that some fool that is strafing left to right very quickly can avoid scepter 100% of the time. There is a video of it somewhere and if anyone would post it or send it to you, you can assess for yourself the issue.

Yeah, I just did this today on my dd ele against a guard while i was capping a point. It was so funny watching the orbs flying past me while i simply moved left and right.

autoduck.2837:

Obtena.7952:

JonPeters.5630:

I’ll take a look at how it compares to Necro staff auto. I will say that when this does hit it is the highest DPS #1 skill in the game. We wanted it to feel this powerful but difficult to land but the effect may be too exaggerated. I’ll play some PvE and PvP scepter Guardian later today.

Jon

Sounds good, except the forum trolls have no clue what they just asked you to do and you’re going to ‘fix’ something that isn’t broken.

I hope you see this: The problem isn’t that it’s difficult to land, the problem is that some fool that is strafing left to right very quickly can avoid scepter 100% of the time. There is a video of it somewhere and if anyone would post it or send it to you, you can assess for yourself the issue.

Yeah, I just did this today on my dd ele against a guard while i was capping a point. It was so funny watching the orbs flying past me while i simply moved left and right.

Guardian isn’t a class that stands aside and snipes the points. He is INSIDE the point within 600 range of his opponent. The projectile speed fix is so that people wouldn’t be able to outrun the projectile while running away or so. The quick strafing doesn’t work within scepters intended range. It has 1200 range so it would be viable in PVE.
No guardian makes that mistake if he is even a bit more experienced.

oh my…

Hicci.8761:

autoduck.2837:

Obtena.7952:

JonPeters.5630:

I’ll take a look at how it compares to Necro staff auto. I will say that when this does hit it is the highest DPS #1 skill in the game. We wanted it to feel this powerful but difficult to land but the effect may be too exaggerated. I’ll play some PvE and PvP scepter Guardian later today.

Jon

Sounds good, except the forum trolls have no clue what they just asked you to do and you’re going to ‘fix’ something that isn’t broken.

I hope you see this: The problem isn’t that it’s difficult to land, the problem is that some fool that is strafing left to right very quickly can avoid scepter 100% of the time. There is a video of it somewhere and if anyone would post it or send it to you, you can assess for yourself the issue.

Yeah, I just did this today on my dd ele against a guard while i was capping a point. It was so funny watching the orbs flying past me while i simply moved left and right.

Guardian isn’t a class that stands aside and snipes the points. He is INSIDE the point within 600 range of his opponent. The projectile speed fix is so that people wouldn’t be able to outrun the projectile while running away or so. The quick strafing doesn’t work within scepters intended range. It has 1200 range so it would be viable in PVE.
No guardian makes that mistake if he is even a bit more experienced.

Ah, I’m guessing you are the guardian who is more experienced. Thanks for letting everyone know.

He may be referring to the fact that when the scepter auto and Smite both hit, the scepter is the highest DPS weapon in the game. It beats, by a WIDE margin, the damage output on warrior greatsword, even.

Doth my eyes deceive me? A dev on the guardian forum?

Reset the Dev counter back to zero, lets hope it never reaches the 3month mark again!

- Guys from other classes, you have your own class forums, please post your issues there, this is the guardian one, so its for guardian issues please.

Nice to see the devs acknowledge an issue thats been around since beta. If they paid a bit more attention to the community on their own website, and less to reddit, twitter and the like, maybe a few more broken issues would be looked at.

I dont think this solves the problem entirely, as others have said the whole projectile system needs looking at, but scepted was awful, I shoudl never be able to run faster than my own projectiles!

Scepter 1 does hit hard, esp if built right. The problem is not the dmg, its that it never hits. it misses NPCs half the time unless stationary.