Guild Wars 2

I have all lvl 80 exotic qaulity condition damage gear (jewelry, wepaons, etc) and it totals 1081 condition damage. I have the focus and the mace as part of my main weapon set up for the blocks to set foes on fire. Also, I have the initail healing skill shelter for its block and the fire damage traits. I still feel like there is not enough opertunities as a Guardian to make use of the build. I am saving Karma and Laurels to buy a new gear type set but I want to know if this one is worth keeping.

condition damage on guardian is kitten you only have burning, you probably should go to tank or super DPS, even support. I use solo build, it’s all of those three mixed.

lol just discovered that forum filter transforms slurs into “kitten.” wondered why so many people use kitten to say kitten /p>

I grabed a torch laying on the ground at 68 and it had a 12 sec dot that did 7834 damage, I wanted to keep the torch so bad. I want to go mix stats and healing but that takes so much gold it seems.

Full condition dmg isn’t good for Guards. Burning sucks because it just stacks in duration. In PvE it works, but for WvW/PvP where people have multiple condition removers it’s not worth investing in.

Burning shouldn’t be your main source of damage.

i am trying to do a build with burn but not a condition build, i wanna use burn to weaken foes, but even if burn is removed i still wanna be able to do some good amount of damage, i am a offensive guardian(main) but for other classes i am open to every type of builds

the build i currently use for solo roaming pve and wvw. in dungeons i tend to go a little more group freindly.

http://tinyurl.com/c3qadng

full carrion gear, trinkets have some toughness but i will switch them too.

shattered aegis and fiery wrath are changed depending on the situation (solo vs. group fights). The build works really well for me and it focuses on applying burn to all nearby foes constantly(!) without going 30 in Virtues.

the build also generates quite some might which adds further to both damage sources. purging flames, shield of wrath, firery aura work well together.

people that say that burn sucks should try keeping burn up on all foes around you. toss in three stack of 7+ second bleeds it adds up very well. ticking for around 1.000 damage per second and a whirling wrath with decent power makes those numbers fly…. and opponents pretty nervous. i see a lot of runners (but i guess thats a guardians fate in any build)

opponents Condition removal is not really an issue since you keep applying burn constantly and tome of wrath action is epic.

dps wise its pretty simple… the longer you fight the higher the dps in this build is compared to a zerker crit build. vs. trash mobs i would say that its pretty much a draw… in orr you can cut down most trash mobs in 5 secs regardless of spec.

i tried this build with zerker gear which grants an insane damage output but you cant get any more squishy…

mace instead of sword works well too same goes for torch instead of focus.

its not OP its just a fun build. and imo its viable

Unless they made burning stackable behind my back last I checked condition damage is the worst possible way to go on a guardian.

yeah its terrible. the evidance you provided shows it clearly.

to OP: I still would recommand not spending laurels on condition damage heavy gear. unless you really sure about what you want.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.2|9.1h.h2.d.1h.h1|0.0.0.0.0.0|1h.75.1h.75.1h.75.1h.75.1h.75.1h.75|2u.0.2w.0.2t.0.1h.62.1h.62.2w.0|k25.u35b.k25.0.0|0.0|0.13.z.17.1i|e

This my burning build that I have used since the launch.
It definitely isn’t the best build out there but I’ve had fun with it.

The build focuses on burning and blocking but it also has a good critical chance.

Hopefully I can replace my ascended trinkets with carrion ones some day

I’m dubious about the choice of a mace on a condition damage Guardian build. One of the easiest ways to keep burning for a Guardian is to use Virtue of Justice’s passive, but that mace is too slow to activate VoJ often.

Anyone trying for a CD Guardian (and, admittedly, it is a rough path…but not kitten undoable as others swear), should be focusing on quick strikes. Sword is probably your best weapon of choice as a CD Guardian.

Gasu.6254:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.2|9.1h.h2.d.1h.h1|0.0.0.0.0.0|1h.75.1h.75.1h.75.1h.75.1h.75.1h.75|2u.0.2w.0.2t.0.1h.62.1h.62.2w.0|k25.u35b.k25.0.0|0.0|0.13.z.17.1i|e

This my burning build that I have used since the launch.
It definitely isn’t the best build out there but I’ve had fun with it.

The build focuses on burning and blocking but it also has a good critical chance.

Hopefully I can replace my ascended trinkets with carrion ones some day

I like it – yet i couldnt give up 5 in virtues with 15 in radiance. how do you find your surviveability?

azureai.9764:

I’m dubious about the choice of a mace on a condition damage Guardian build. One of the easiest ways to keep burning for a Guardian is to use Virtue of Justice’s passive, but that mace is too slow to activate VoJ often.

Anyone trying for a CD Guardian (and, admittedly, it is a rough path…but not kitten undoable as others swear), should be focusing on quick strikes. Sword is probably your best weapon of choice as a CD Guardian.

mace symbol ticks provide counts twords VoJ too and with JI and purging flame its enough to keep the fire burning on single target. in general you will activat VoJ a lot anyways because of the recharge on kill. weapon speed is not that important. the pbaoe burn from aegis will give a good headstart on long burns too.

I would say mace is a good choice in this build since it is the main source for surviveability – regen, heal, block + pretty good aoe attack

i seriously dont see why CD should be a rough path. if you do the math dps on carrion wil be higher then knights – given a 100% uptime on burn and you bypass armor and protection boons…

The major issue with trying to do burning damage as a guardian is that you are going to be competing with other classes that will very likely do more damage and since only one of you can burn at a time, any time you take away from others is reducing overall dps of the group.

A grand example is my condition Mesmer whom currently sits at 1663 condition damage before consumables. Condition damage is already weak and problematic enough without players trying to step on eachother’s toes.

FlyingK.9720:

The major issue with trying to do burning damage as a guardian is that you are going to be competing with other classes that will very likely do more damage and since only one of you can burn at a time, any time you take away from others is reducing overall dps of the group.

A grand example is my condition Mesmer whom currently sits at 1663 condition damage before consumables. Condition damage is already weak and problematic enough without players trying to step on eachother’s toes.

good point. but in a structured group situation there are also tons of ther things to coordinate. yet i would argue that a true long duration burn is only achievable by guards and eles who spec for arcane burns.

I like it – yet i couldnt give up 5 in virtues with 15 in radiance. how do you find your surviveability?

Biggest problem is propably the lack of condition removal (two passives and 1 on use).
Otherwise I feel I can survive quite well because of those blocks and good 16k HP.

Would moving 10 or 5 from Valor to Virtues work? It’s purity vs. inspired virtue. ^^

Asmodal.6489:

FlyingK.9720:

The major issue with trying to do burning damage as a guardian is that you are going to be competing with other classes that will very likely do more damage and since only one of you can burn at a time, any time you take away from others is reducing overall dps of the group.

A grand example is my condition Mesmer whom currently sits at 1663 condition damage before consumables. Condition damage is already weak and problematic enough without players trying to step on eachother’s toes.

good point. but in a structured group situation there are also tons of ther things to coordinate. yet i would argue that a true long duration burn is only achievable by guards and eles who spec for arcane burns.

There is no major issue there if you are traiting and gearing accordingly to get the most damage form burning foes, even if the burn isn’t your own. We get 10% damage increase to burning foes in Zeal 10 and another 5% if you rune up to Flame Legion 6. If you know there is another long duration burner in your team, it usually doesn’t matter anyways … your burning will get it’s turn on mobs where grouping is typically advantageous. If it’s just trash mobs, it’s not relevant who’s burning anyways.

Asmodal.6489:

azureai.9764:

I’m dubious about the choice of a mace on a condition damage Guardian build. One of the easiest ways to keep burning for a Guardian is to use Virtue of Justice’s passive, but that mace is too slow to activate VoJ often.

Anyone trying for a CD Guardian (and, admittedly, it is a rough path…but not kitten undoable as others swear), should be focusing on quick strikes. Sword is probably your best weapon of choice as a CD Guardian.

mace symbol ticks provide counts twords VoJ too and with JI and purging flame its enough to keep the fire burning on single target. in general you will activat VoJ a lot anyways because of the recharge on kill. weapon speed is not that important. the pbaoe burn from aegis will give a good headstart on long burns too.

I would say mace is a good choice in this build since it is the main source for surviveability – regen, heal, block + pretty good aoe attack

i seriously dont see why CD should be a rough path. if you do the math dps on carrion wil be higher then knights – given a 100% uptime on burn and you bypass armor and protection boons…

Agreed with this. Mace is a really good approach if you want to take advantage of the 30 Virtue build and not be stuck to 30 Valour if you like playing a more active defense. A 10/15/0/0/30 Mace/focus build has some significant staying power and thump to it. I would use it but unfortunately, the 30 Valour offers more flexibility and maces look crap IMO.

Asmodal.6489:

i seriously dont see why CD should be a rough path. if you do the math dps on carrion wil be higher then knights – given a 100% uptime on burn and you bypass armor and protection boons…

That is a pretty bad comparison to make, because carrion has condition damage as it’s primary and power as secondary, whereas knight’s has only power as secondary and precision as another secondary.

That being said, focussing on condition damage is probably the worst possible way to build a guardian, especially in group content. The classes who are really good at condition damage can put out 3-5 times the amount of condition damage you can, and even those are not really sought after.

Fun fact: all of those nice +x% damage traits don’t actually do anything for the burns, they only ever increase direct damage.

wintermute.4096:

Asmodal.6489:

i seriously dont see why CD should be a rough path. if you do the math dps on carrion wil be higher then knights – given a 100% uptime on burn and you bypass armor and protection boons…

That is a pretty bad comparison to make, because carrion has condition damage as it’s primary and power as secondary, whereas knight’s has only power as secondary and precision as another secondary.

That being said, focussing on condition damage is probably the worst possible way to build a guardian, especially in group content. The classes who are really good at condition damage can put out 3-5 times the amount of condition damage you can, and even those are not really sought after.

Fun fact: all of those nice +x% damage traits don’t actually do anything for the burns, they only ever increase direct damage.

so….
i dont get what you are saying – why is that a bad comparison? its the best you can get since both have two offensive and one defensive stat. which stats would you like me to compare? if condition damage is such a bad thing me “wasting” it on the max stat shouldnt be an issue right?

do you speak from experience or do you just repeat what you read somewhere else? I run a full condition spec and its completely on par with a power/precision orientated spec as well in solo or group play. telling people condition damage is the worst thing in the world is pretty much the same nonesens as was telling people healing power is a waste before the healway guardian came around.

i watch the targets very closely in dungeons and I invite you to do the same… more often then not – if i dont burn them no one else does – at least consistently.

condition damage specs are not thought after because people like big burst numbers and cant understand what sustained damge really is about.

your fun fact is not funny since it has nothing to do with anything. even on chars that run power precision i do not spec those traits since there are always better things to pick – a t least for a guardian.

Asmodal.6489:

wintermute.4096:

Asmodal.6489:

i seriously dont see why CD should be a rough path. if you do the math dps on carrion wil be higher then knights – given a 100% uptime on burn and you bypass armor and protection boons…

That is a pretty bad comparison to make, because carrion has condition damage as it’s primary and power as secondary, whereas knight’s has only power as secondary and precision as another secondary.

That being said, focussing on condition damage is probably the worst possible way to build a guardian, especially in group content. The classes who are really good at condition damage can put out 3-5 times the amount of condition damage you can, and even those are not really sought after.

Fun fact: all of those nice +x% damage traits don’t actually do anything for the burns, they only ever increase direct damage.

so….
i dont get what you are saying – why is that a bad comparison? its the best you can get since both have two offensive and one defensive stat. which stats would you like me to compare? if condition damage is such a bad thing me “wasting” it on the max stat shouldnt be an issue right?

do you speak from experience or do you just repeat what you read somewhere else? I run a full condition spec and its completely on par with a power/precision orientated spec as well in solo or group play. telling people condition damage is the worst thing in the world is pretty much the same nonesens as was telling people healing power is a waste before the healway guardian came around.

i watch the targets very closely in dungeons and I invite you to do the same… more often then not – if i dont burn them no one else does – at least consistently.

condition damage specs are not thought after because people like big burst numbers and cant understand what sustained damge really is about.

your fun fact is not funny since it has nothing to do with anything. even on chars that run power precision i do not spec those traits since there are always better things to pick – a t least for a guardian.

Your 1 stack of burn(max 1) is not going to do any noticeable damage over time compared to any other classes who specialize in conditions, and certainly a drop in the bucket compared to zerk builds.

Unless they make burning stackable, condition guardian is not a viable alternative in any type of play.

So actually, the past night I had spent some time thinking of a defensive way of using burns as a Guardian. Mainly as a way of creating something moldbreaking, both to Guardians in general, but also to Guardian burn builds in general. I’d also like some critique on ways to make this idea the best it can (and no, “dat der beeld sux” isn’t critique).

http://tinyurl.com/bd384o8

The idea is stacking acceptable amounts of condition damage and healing power, and when combined with a mace, provide multiple sources of area healing and burning, or at least multiple sources. It’s pure theorycraft glory, but I think it could be at least, interesting, to consider. There’s 10 floater points that I haven’t really decided where to put them, and honestly they could pretty much go anywhere. The main problem I ran into was stat allocation, as there aren’t many “good” types out there for this. Maybe even divinity would be ideal.

DeathPanel.8362:

Your 1 stack of burn(max 1) is not going to do any noticeable damage over time compared to any other classes who specialize in conditions, and certainly a drop in the bucket compared to zerk builds.

Unless they make burning stackable, condition guardian is not a viable alternative in any type of play.

1. What are These Builds and classes that specialize in burn?

2. I assume you did the math to back half of that Statement up. of course a zerker Build Provides more damage then carrion. But that’s like comparing carrion to soldiers. So i suggest. Not everyone linkes to be a Glass cannon.

If you check your facts i suggest starting with comparing autoattack dps and then work your way up.

Cheers

Burn is best comparable to 6 stacks of bleed, extending in duration*. It definitely doesn’t match the 12-20 stacks that some classes can manage (I think warriors and elementalists are pretty good at stacking bleed?), but it’s still a fair amount of condition damage.

The build I’m currently pursuing has about 20 points and one off-hand weapon worth of investment in burning, and I’m finding it to be pretty sufficient. (20 in radiance for renewed justice and radiant fire, along with a torch off-hand) I get very good uptime on burning, and can spread it rather nicely among allies.

So all I’m saying is, you can do pretty good burning damage and still do a lot of other things with your build.

Asmodal.6489:

1. What are These Builds and classes that specialize in burn?

Nobody does, because burn sucks. The good condition builds all specialize in bleed, and have burn as a minor perk along with it. That alone could have given you some pointers maybe.

Asmodal.6489:

2. I assume you did the math to back half of that Statement up. of course a zerker Build Provides more damage then carrion. But that’s like comparing carrion to soldiers. So i suggest. Not everyone linkes to be a Glass cannon.

See below, for a rabid engineer, which is the best at dealing condition damage. Other than that, thiefs, earth elementalists, sword/bow warriors, necros, trap/shortbow rangers, hell, even mesmers all easily beat a guardian in condition damage. And yes, that is literally every class in the whole game.

Asmodal.6489:

so….
i dont get what you are saying – why is that a bad comparison? its the best you can get since both have two offensive and one defensive stat. which stats would you like me to compare? if condition damage is such a bad thing me “wasting” it on the max stat shouldnt be an issue right?

do you speak from experience or do you just repeat what you read somewhere else? I run a full condition spec and its completely on par with a power/precision orientated spec as well in solo or group play. telling people condition damage is the worst thing in the world is pretty much the same nonesens as was telling people healing power is a waste before the healway guardian came around.

It is a bad comparison because knight’s has no primary offensive stat at all, and only precision as a secondary, which makes it inherently more defensive.

Now, let’s look at the numbers. The best class for max condition stacking currently is the engineer. With full cond damage gear, my engi gets 417 per burn, 60 per bleed and 120 per poison tick. If no one else is around applying bleeds too, engies have no problem maintaining constant burning, the full 25 stacks of bleed, poison, and 25 stacks of vulnerability on top of it, provided they use cond duration food (which every condition build does in pve).

So, in numbers, that’s
Guardian: 417/s
Engineer: 417/s + 25* 60/s + 120/s = 2037/s

Now it’s true that you won’t see as much damage from regular mobs because they usually die too fast and move around too much, and you might occasionally miss a few grenades, but the engie will always definitely outperform the guardian. They do have a rather long ramp up for all their bleeds, but for this comparison that doesn’t actually matter much, because as you are only applying burn, they can start with that too and have you beaten as early as 2 seconds, and only proceed to stack more and more after that.
This all is also not even accounting for the better aoe potential on engineer, and the vulnerability that actually makes even more of an impact than your damage, if you run with a few competent zerkers…

wintermute.4096:

Asmodal.6489:

1. What are These Builds and classes that specialize in burn?

Nobody does, because burn sucks.

I don’t like to call people out but this is just dog’s bollocks. If you had a clue, you would realize that Guardian gets burning FOR FREE. Regardless of ANY build you want to make, it’s always there supplementing your regular damage. Since burning isn’t meant to be Guardian primary damage source, it actually does ‘work’.

Comparing burning on Guardian (where it’s a secondary damage source) to other extreme condition builds on other profs (using conditions as a primary damage source) is ridiculous to begin with and not even relevant to the discussion. I don’t see why someone playing a guardian should even care that a engi or whatever gets X damage per second with a condition build. So what?

The only thing relevant here is what an Guardian has access to. Everything else is moot. I believe that a Guardian that focuses on condition damage gear and burning traits/runes/sigils can pump out similar damage as a crit Guardian while burning is up. That’s not just spouting off at the mouth either. The big downfall of burning is that it’s duration is a little short.

I’m Talking about burn and you switch it to condition damage in general. Dont Twist the Argument so ist fits your answer.

No one denies that engineer can stack more conditions. Frankly i dont care about other classes. My Point is about the viability of burn for a guardian in terms of dps.

if no One specializes in burn Great – then i can fill tha void.

Name me the stat Set you want me to compare and i do the math for you.

Asmodal.6489:

I’m Talking about burn and you switch it to condition damage in general. Dont Twist the Argument so ist fits your answer.

You where the one who brought up a “condition build guardian”, I only pointed out that it’s crap, I really don’t see how that would be considered “twisting the argument”.
Burn is worthless in terms of primary dps sources, at least for guardians.

It’s nice if it happens as a side effect of whatever you are doing anyway, but investing in it is certainly the least effective way to spend your stat budget.

Obtena.7952:

wintermute.4096:

Asmodal.6489:

1. What are These Builds and classes that specialize in burn?

Nobody does, because burn sucks.

I don’t like to call people out but this is just dog’s bollocks. If you had a clue, you would realize that Guardian gets burning FOR FREE. Regardless of ANY build you want to make, it’s always there supplementing your regular damage. Since burning isn’t meant to be Guardian primary damage source, it actually does ‘work’.

Comparing burning on Guardian (where it’s a secondary damage source) to other extreme condition builds on other profs (using conditions as a primary damage source) is ridiculous to begin with and not even relevant to the discussion. I don’t see why someone playing a guardian should even care that a engi or whatever gets X damage per second with a condition build. So what?

The only thing relevant here is what an Guardian has access to. Everything else is moot. I believe that a Guardian that focuses on condition damage gear and burning traits/runes/sigils can pump out similar damage as a crit Guardian while burning is up. That’s not just spouting off at the mouth either. The big downfall of burning is that it’s duration is a little short.

Full condition damage gear is in no shape or form “FOR FREE”, it is in fact the biggest investment you can make in your build. In fact, the Guardian is absolutely competitive in dps, just not in a condition build, which is what I was pointing out.

wintermute.4096:

Full condition damage gear is in no shape or form “FOR FREE”, it is in fact the biggest investment you can make in your build. In fact, the Guardian is absolutely competitive in dps, just not in a condition build, which is what I was pointing out.

Guardians don’t need condition damage gear to get burning. It’s literally FREE. If you are buck naked with a level 1 weapon, you get burning. CD gear only takes something we get for free and makes it better.

Your claim burning ‘sucks’ is too general to be true. If your point was that Guardian isn’t absolutely competitive in a condition build, I’m not sure that’s relevant to the discussion (or true). It’s certainly not a reason to invalidate burning builds on Guardian.

While everyone is on the subject of thrashing burn builds… here’s mine. It’s mainly for playing around in PvE. The torch is fun, the sword is great for mobility, and the hammer is my favorite.
But I am worried I have wasted stats on a lot of condition dmg.
I crafted exo carrion gear and put undead runes (they’re cheap) on all of it.
I am curious if there are some skills, stats, or anything else I failed to realize that would make this better.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUIQNAsfSlYgiCHHyMEg4ESmiC8Ate8PIk/UpIemHA;TsAgyUNZaS0ktJXTymGCcEYTwcBA

And I did notice from lvl 1 that guardians had free fire so that’s why I went with this. It’s pretty easy to keep a constant burn going.

wintermute.4096:

You where the one who brought up a “condition build guardian”, I only pointed out that it’s crap, I really don’t see how that would be considered “twisting the argument”.
Burn is worthless in terms of primary dps sources, at least for guardians.

It’s nice if it happens as a side effect of whatever you are doing anyway, but investing in it is certainly the least effective way to spend your stat budget.

well maybe its twisting an argument that You say i would think burn is the Primary Source of damage. Never said that nor would i since Auto attack dps on greatsword is around 700 with base power on a target with 2600 toughness.

yes you indeed Pointed Out its crap without any evidence. Tell me the stat Set up you would like to comprare and i will do the math for you. Seems to be the only way.

Asmodal.6489:

well maybe its twisting an argument that You say i would think burn is the Primary Source of damage. Never said that nor would i since Auto attack dps on greatsword is around 700 with base power on a target with 2600 toughness.

yes you indeed Pointed Out its crap without any evidence. Tell me the stat Set up you would like to comprare and i will do the math for you. Seems to be the only way.

So you recommend carrion gear to boost an attribute which only benefits a damage source you yourself see as secondary?

Yes… For the Same reason why soldiers is better then knights gear in terms of dps when you have Low crit damage. The Resultat counts

The reason why going full condition damage isn’t as popular as a Power/Crit/crit dmg build is because in many cases, especially group play, the stats are not there to increase the damage of your burning, but to allow you to make use of the traits which increase damage to burning targets. Since only only source can be placed on a target at a time, many other professions are able to deal a great more condition damage than guardians.

The upside is that you can help keep burning on a longer duration but that essentially means, the extra CD through stats that you’ve worked so hard to get is nullified. So this is where the notion of wasted stats come in. While you do keep the duration up, the extra bonus damage simply disappears into thin air. The main focus here would be to see if that extra damage increase on burning targets is worth the trouble of the gear.

I personally don’t like it because the effectiveness of your build greatly depends on the make up of your group where as a straight forward Power/Crit/Crit dmg build wouldn’t have the same problems.

However in saying that, I think a full condition build will work a lot better for a solo player since they’ll be able to make use of all the stats. Just in group play, especially large groups, condition damage as a stat really diminishes. I’d personally wouldn’t go full condition damage since I always play with my guild. Condition damage is just one way to play things. If you enjoy it, then just stick with it.

wintermute.4096:

So you recommend carrion gear to boost an attribute which only benefits a damage source you yourself see as secondary?

Is there a better option if you want to boost your secondary source of damage on Guardian? I think Carrion is the right recommendation.

if you decide to invest in condition damage, don’t do the obvious silly thing and put burn duration.
have mix of carrion and rabid for some half decent crit chance.

take sword/torch,

use sigils and runes to maximize your condition variety.
sigils: geomancy (bleed on swap), doom (poison on swap) + earth (bleed on crit)

and runes 4*krait or 4*orrian, for 5%inflict bleed or poison on attacker

Asmodal.6489:

DeathPanel.8362:

Your 1 stack of burn(max 1) is not going to do any noticeable damage over time compared to any other classes who specialize in conditions, and certainly a drop in the bucket compared to zerk builds.

Unless they make burning stackable, condition guardian is not a viable alternative in any type of play.

1. What are These Builds and classes that specialize in burn?

2. I assume you did the math to back half of that Statement up. of course a zerker Build Provides more damage then carrion. But that’s like comparing carrion to soldiers. So i suggest. Not everyone linkes to be a Glass cannon.

If you check your facts i suggest starting with comparing autoattack dps and then work your way up.

Cheers

The difference is I know my facts while people like you don’t. I never said any classes specialized in burn, because burn as a condition is simply bad.

Thinking carrion gear would actually help your dps be anything other than pathetic as a guardian is an astounding admission of lack of knowledge on your part.

Bottom line is. Going carrion will not only nerf your attack dps due to the lack of critical chance and crit damage% as well as power being a minor trait it will totally nerf your survival because you will have no toughness from gear.

You’ll essentially be a necro with lower life and lower condition damage.

The pitiful damage you get from burning barely registers and would account for a fraction of a normal autoattack of anyone else in soldiers/dps gear.

May as well go 30 radience, you’ll want 25 radience for Radient Power, and Right-hand strength is good for a mace build. And 10 Zeal for Fiery Wrath comes to mind, along with 15 zeal for Symbolic Exposure. 20 valor to go with your high crit chance for more crit damage, as well as Defender’s Flame and Mace of Justice. This leaves 5 in Virtues.
This should provide high condition damage while not neglecting mace damage.

Obtena.7952:

wintermute.4096:

So you recommend carrion gear to boost an attribute which only benefits a damage source you yourself see as secondary?

Is there a better option if you want to boost your secondary source of damage on Guardian? I think Carrion is the right recommendation.

If anyone were hellbent on boosting condition damage above everything else, then, yes, carrion would be a good way to do that. That does not mean it is a good thing to do in the first place.
I’d argue that even soldier’s would provide roughly the same, if not more dps under realistic circumstances, while offering a lot more defense, and with no risk of making you completely obsolete in groups. Zerker’s would leave both in the dust regardless of that, especially in groups, where the better scaling with might, fury, and vulnerability comes into play. There really isn’t a niche were burn would perform better then one of those options, in most cases it’s zerker all the way anyway.

You can argue that anything would be better for whatever scenario you like; I personally don’t see how it’s relevant to a focused discussion on burn builds. I also don’t think anyone here is the authority on what ‘is a good thing to do’ on a Guardian; as long as you know how to play your build, you aren’t at risk of ever being bad.

We aren’t putting a man on the moon here; there is room for variations. There isn’t some rule that everyone needs to play the most optimized build always. I can assure you that the guy who has optimized his burning build is more than capable of holding his own weight and supporting any group activity without being in the top 1% of damage dealing Guardians.

There are nice advantages to burning builds that people like, even if most of them are superficial. If you don’t see that, I don’t understand what you are adding to the conversation. Some people like burning builds and know how to play them better than some people that throw on Knights armor and run a shout/AH build. I’ll team the completely self-aware burner over the fumbling AH/shout guy any day.

Obtena.7952:

You can argue that anything would be better for whatever scenario you like; I personally don’t see how it’s relevant to a focused discussion on burn builds. I also don’t think anyone here is the authority on what ‘is a good thing to do’ on a Guardian; as long as you know how to play your build, you aren’t at risk of ever being bad.

We aren’t putting a man on the moon here; there is room for variations. There isn’t some rule that everyone needs to play the most optimized build always. I can assure you that the guy who has optimized his burning build is more than capable of holding his own weight and supporting any group activity without being in the top 1% of damage dealing Guardians.

There are nice advantages to burning builds that people like, even if most of them are superficial. If you don’t see that, I don’t understand what you are adding to the conversation. Some people like burning builds and know how to play them better than some people that throw on Knights armor and run a shout/AH build. I’ll team the completely self-aware burner over the fumbling AH/shout guy any day.

Wrong. There are simply builds that are not good in this game and condition guardian currently is a bad build unless they make major changes to how burn works and add more ways for guardians to apply burn.

Your statement regarding the self aware burner over fumbling AH guy is a strawman.

The same player with the same skills will simply be less effective using a condition build vs AH build.

DeathPanel.8362:

Wrong. There are simply builds that are not good in this game and condition guardian currently is a bad build unless they make major changes to how burn works and add more ways for guardians to apply burn.

That’s just too general to be true. What makes it bad? In what situations? Why? Once you answer those, you realize there is actually content in the game where the shortcomings of burning don’t have a negative impact. Burning works extremely well there.

Off hand, I can think of 4 ways Guardians can apply burning and you can access them all with the same build. It does what it’s supposed to … a secondary, parallel damage line. It should never get better because it’s role in the Guardian toolset would change.

DeathPanel.8362:

The same player with the same skills will simply be less effective using a condition build vs AH build.

The effectiveness of builds are relevant to the content they are used in and how well they suit a players style. Your statements are too general to have meaning. For example, AH/shout build is not better than my burning build for solo farming. We have a bit of a conundrum then.

Obtena.7952:

The effectiveness of builds are relevant to the content they are used in and how well they suit a players style. Your statements are too general to have meaning. For example, AH/shout build is not better than my burning build for solo farming. We have a bit of a conundrum then.

Wrong again. AH/Shout build is not gear based, meaning I can swap in clerics, knights, or berserker gear based on the situation.

While your condition based build limits you to only condition damage gear like rabid or carrion.

With a full set of berserker gear or even knights gear I can easily out farm you in a solo farming situation with an AH/Shout build.

Burning as a condition simply don’t do sufficient damage to warrant all the loss in dps and survivability to gear for it and has no useful secondary effects. You can accuse me of using that as a general statement but the bottom line is that general statement is true.

Obtena.7952:

You can argue that anything would be better for whatever scenario you like; I personally don’t see how it’s relevant to a focused discussion on burn builds. I also don’t think anyone here is the authority on what ‘is a good thing to do’ on a Guardian; as long as you know how to play your build, you aren’t at risk of ever being bad.

If other builds are better then burn builds in every scenario, then surely that is relevant for a discussion about burn builds. I did not say power builds flourish in one area, burn builds in another, I said that burn builds are definitely always inferior to power builds, and that there are a few, albeit very rare, occasions in which you maybe don’t notice it that much.

Obtena.7952:

I’ll team the completely self-aware burner over the fumbling AH/shout guy any day.

Of course, you assume that anyone running the flavor build which is strictly inferior to the working build is inherently more skilled then the one who at least displays the theoretical knowledge of how to build a working character. And naturally, you prefer grouping with him, despite the fact that one of the most severe shortcomings of burn builds is group play.

Obtena.7952:

DeathPanel.8362:

Wrong. There are simply builds that are not good in this game and condition guardian currently is a bad build unless they make major changes to how burn works and add more ways for guardians to apply burn.

That’s just too general to be true. What makes it bad? In what situations? Why? Once you answer those, you realize there is actually content in the game where the shortcomings of burning don’t have a negative impact. Burning works extremely well there.

Off hand, I can think of 4 ways Guardians can apply burning and you can access them all with the same build. It does what it’s supposed to … a secondary, parallel damage line. It should never get better because it’s role in the Guardian toolset would change.

DeathPanel.8362:

The same player with the same skills will simply be less effective using a condition build vs AH build.

The effectiveness of builds are relevant to the content they are used in and how well they suit a players style. Your statements are too general to have meaning. For example, AH/shout build is not better than my burning build for solo farming. We have a bit of a conundrum then.

What makes full condition builds frowned upon has already been noted several times in this thread but I’ll note some for you again.

- Burning only stacks in duration and can only come from one source. This means only one player is making use of the extra condition damage.

- This will cause problems if more than one member of the party is running any form of condition build. This means your primary stat suddenly loses a lot of value.

I won’t compare this to an AH/shout build because they both serve different purposes. A burn build centres towards yourself, not your group.

Polle.6908:

What makes full condition builds frowned upon has already been noted several times in this thread but I’ll note some for you again.

- Burning only stacks in duration and can only come from one source. This means only one player is making use of the extra condition damage.

- This will cause problems if more than one member of the party is running any form of condition build. This means your primary stat suddenly loses a lot of value.

I won’t compare this to an AH/shout build because they both serve different purposes. A burn build centres towards yourself, not your group.

Those are true, let me list some more though, especially for group play:

• Burn doesn’t benefit from fury
• Burn doesn’t get any +x% damage traits (on guardians, you can have at least 20% at all times, up to 40% if you can keep aegis up)
• Burn roughly gets much less then what power specs get out of might stacks
• Burn doesn’t increase it’s damage with vulnerability stacks
• Burn doesn’t get anything out of weapon sigils

The numbers on each of those points alone are substantial, and they all work together at the same time even.

For posterity it’s good you listed those things but the picture you paint has a bit of your twist that you added to it. For instance, burn doesn’t increase in damage with vulnerability stacks because condition damage already ignores armor. In my book, ignoring armor is a positive aspect, not negative. It’s not entirely true that burning doesn’t benefit from sigils either. I use smoldering to increase my duration 10%. Bleeding benefits from the same type of sigil. Still, these are mostly pedantic points.

The real point I am making is that despite all of the things that people think are bad about burning, burning builds are still very good for soloing. The best? Probably not, but suck? Definitely not. It’s a more than respectable build for anyone that optimizes it for that role and knows how to play it.

Obtena.7952:

For posterity it’s good you listed those things but the picture you paint has a bit of your twist that you added to it. For instance, burn doesn’t increase in damage with vulnerability stacks because condition damage already ignores armor. In my book, ignoring armor is a positive aspect, not negative. It’s not entirely true that burning doesn’t benefit from sigils either. I use smoldering to increase my duration 10%. Bleeding benefits from the same type of sigil. Still, these are mostly pedantic points.

The real point I am making is that despite all of the things that people think are bad about burning, burning builds are still very good for soloing. The best? Probably not, but suck? Definitely not. It’s a more than respectable build for anyone that optimizes it for that role and knows how to play it.

• Ignoring armor would be a point, if we fought things that actually had any. In practice, ignoring the neglectible armor pve mobs tend to have is never really an advantage, whereas losing out on another 25% is huge, especially since your power damage is always higher to begin with. (in fact there are numerous encounters where condition damage doesn’t work at all, like any boss with multiple resetting phases, increased damage or “burn phases” as a mechanic)
• Smoldering would be a good sigil, if you had the other 90% burn duration to extend the duration on your burns to the next second. Other then that, it does nothing at all on many occasions. (namely, virtue of justice procs when you don’t have other sources of burn available)

Note again how the above examples are considering group play especially. All together mean that a good power build can put out damage that is a multitude of what burn does, while offering more to the group in terms of support and having the same or more survivability.

To point out such a night and day difference is surely not pedantic at all, and if having such a gap in performance to the performances of better builds does not make a burn build suck, then I don’t know what does.

I don’t have a problem if anyone enjoys stuff like that while solo, or even in parties who don’t care about efficiency, but marketing it as “being able to hold it’s ground against the competition” or anything like that is simply a factually wrong statement.

I’m not sure if there is a comprehension problem here. Unless I’m being too subtle, I believe I have already said that burning builds excel in soloing. I never claimed burning builds are good for grouping. In fact, I agree that they suck in that situation for the reasons you and everyone else have already listed. In solo play, burning isn’t impacted by its restrictions as a condition damage type.

Focusing on a burning build for solo farming is an additional, reliable and consistent damage output for the kinds of mobs you will encounter. I guess if having the equivalent of a second weapon hitting for 650-700 per second ‘sucks’, so be it.