Guild Wars 2

I have been really liking the guardian, but I haven’t really liked the weapon options so far. I have been reading a lot of threads about weapons, but I still seem to feel unclear on the consensus of how all the weapons perform in pve.

Originally I was going to run with a mace and shield build, but I feel I am handicapping myself with a shield in pve content (it can be handy in pvp and I am sure it has some situational uses though), so I thought the next closest option would be to go for a two hander, so I boiled my primary weapon choices down to hammer or greatsword.

What is the general consensus for level 80 dungeoning and pve? what is the most effective weapon? I gathered that the hammer is about aoe and control, and greatsword more about burst damage. If I want to focus on Hammer, what trait lines are recommended in general? I know greatswords greatly prefer Zeal but I find many other traits other than the vulnerability 3 point talent very underwhelming.

with best regards,
Moski

For dungeons, greatsword with 4/5/0/0/5 is the general build, taking the 10% damage against burning foes trait in zeal. Hammer is best used in fractals, and you need 4 points in honor to maximize your dps and your protection uptime, something like 3/5/0/4/2, or 5/5/0/4/0, or 3/3/0/4/0 depending on the fight. Keep in mind that, at least with greatsword, you shouldn’t camp only one weapon; use your switch to maximize your dps again. And even in fractals, you’ll probably use hammer/ greatsword.

I love the aesthetics of hammer, especially with the ley line hammer, but there is absolutely no reason to use a hammer in a dungeon. The symbol of protection is pretty useless and the only hammer specific trait, Glacial Heart, is equally pointless.

Run hammer for roaming fun, by all means, but anything less than GS in dungeons , and other effective dps situations, is a waste of time. GS Aoe is also superior.

Hammer, tbh, needs a 10% dps buff trait refix to be useful.

In a dungeons you are better of staff might stacking and switching to GS.

Valor and Honor lines are pretty useless. You will only kill more slowly and increase opportunities for your own death. Use the traits build above and try speed runs if you want some health ( as guardian baseline health is = lowest in the game) The 25% constant speed buff is pretty schmexy.

Id also switch in and out of Absolute Resolution and Supreme Justice in the 10 point virtue slot for defense/ cleansing and dps respectively, depending upon the situation.

Thank you for the responses so far, I think I will just have to face the music and go with a greatsword, although knowing me I’ll mess around with one handed sword as well for a bit. What type of spells are recommended to take along, I take consecrations are fairly good to accompany with these kinds of builds rather than shouts? (even though stand your ground is always handy I suppose)

I must confess I have been away from GW2 a long while, but are just the guardians pushed into berserker, or is this a problem with all the classes in the game currently? Starting to wonder if I picked the wrong class again (first time I was a necro)

For sake of accurate information, there are more than one trait that increases hammer effectiveness in different ways beyond Glacial Heart.

Hammer is a symbol synergistic weapon that actually gets a majority of its consistent damage from the auto attack + symbol it places, so doing any other skills beyond auto tends to decrease it’s dps. I think even mighty blast decreased dps, but decent small burst dmg to land in pvp, with fast refresh.

These five all help hammer damage in different ways to include more ticks, ease of hitting more targets, 10% damage buff, or extra proc of damage.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Writ_of_Exaltation (sure why not if getting persistence)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Writ_of_Persistence (consistent dps increase)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Symbolic_Power (good, but far into zeal, third hit gets 10% dmg as well as symbol ticks last I knew)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glacial_Heart (meh at most, but I think it provided a aoe dmg hit along with the chill application)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Symbolic_Exposure (each stack gives 1% extra damage, up to about 4 with consistent auto if I remember right)

You also have some healing abilities on it to pull some defensive ability out, but not normally needed in pve dps type content.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Writ_of_the_Merciful (layer with other heal effects for best return)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Altruistic_Healing (multiple targets in range give more return, also blast finisher buffs apply heals as well, which hammer is plentiful)

Hammer actually has really good dps, but with cycling between greatsword/sword, you are able to use cooldowns of greatsword for bursts which heighten the dps, then camp sword auto for decent high dps on auto attack, as well as providing blinds and projectile blocks which are good utility (as well as vulnerability stacks if traited).

Hammer normally isn’t advised in group content because the constant light fields interfere with fire fields that provide might stacks in combat, but honestly, if your group is that organized, they wont need that many might rebuffs mid combat.

Problem with hammer isn’t the dps, it’s the lack and burst and the light field spam. That said, yes consecrations are usually the best choice, you have to use the right ones at the right moment so when starting ask an experienced party member what to bring if you don’t remember. Projectiles heavy fight= WoR, conditions being thrown out: purging flames, etc. Remember both purging flames and hallowed ground are fire fields so if you play with an lh ele, make him happy by throwing one if you don’t need anything else. You should always, or almost always, have one shout on your bar, wich is retreat, because aegis is one of your role as a guard. For max dps utilities where you don’t need consecrations, save yourselves ( especially with power of the virtuous) and bane signet are a good choice. Judge intervention for large skipping portions because it’s fun to use. Think i covered it all, check DnT forums and obal’s guide for further information.

To answer your last question, all classes are put into berserker in group content pve. ( Except world bosses, because you can’t crit them, i’m speaking about dungeons). Every armor set is viable in the game, but stacking personal stats doesn’t help your team to survive, and you’re just being selfish stacking all those personal traits and letting your teammate dying. Berserker is just the best set for group support, and also the funniest to play imo, especially as a guard. Berserker is a group oriented set because it gives up all the survivability from gear to boost your team dps, and you rely on others teammates to cover your mistakes. Guardian is really great to play in meta parties because you can really keep your 4 teammates alive and it’s rewarding to help newcomers through a dungeon when they don’t know when to dodge and still survive because you give them aegis at the right time and protect them with a WoR. You can still put some tankier gear when learning, but warn your team before.

Thank you for the elaborate info on the hammer and enlightening me on the role situation for dungeons. Think I may stick with Greatsword for pve dungeoning along with a sword/focus setup (or maybe a scepter would be better if range is favored?). Not really sure yet what to pick for WvW but I guess without trait costs that isnt a big deal anymore.

Scepter is better on large hitbox lupi ( ac endbosses, lupicus, etc), otherwise prefer sword. I kinda skipped the WwW section, let me elaborate a bit more:
For solo roaming or small scale, meditations are powerful and fun, with gs/ sword focus, same as pve. I use a mace/ shield/ greatsword build for small scale, emphazing on boon spam with shouts along with good condi removal, the build is a variant from boonway, look up on the forum. For large scale, zergs and such, all 2 handed weapons works wonder, staff/ hammer is the most supportive you can get. Check Healway and Boonway builds, and if you have any specific question or just want to do some dungeons with me so i can provide general advices ( and if you’re EU) pm me.

Have fun!

Permanent protection from hammer is not only good for fractals you know. Even not for the protection, with right traits hammer/greatsword does more damage than sword + focus/greatsword combo. Aside from the superior damage to sword + focus, hammer has the cooldown blast finishers in the game aside from thief and has both soft and hard CC built in. As for the permanent light field “getting in the way” of fire fields, those who might stack from fire fields almost always does it before combat and they should. Aside from smoke and fire fields which are used out of combat for valid reasons, there aren’t much better fields than light field aside from water fields which are extremely rare and situational.

To sum up, don’t choose between hammer and greatsword as they make a very good combo. Instead, choose hammer to sword + focus, as aside from blinds and optional and long cooldowned Shield of Wrath, there isn’t much sword + focus can offer comparing to hammer.

Pregnantman.8259:

Permanent protection from hammer is not only good for fractals you know. Even not for the protection, with right traits hammer/greatsword does more damage than sword + focus/greatsword combo. Aside from the superior damage to sword + focus, hammer has the cooldown blast finishers in the game aside from thief and has both soft and hard CC built in. As for the permanent light field “getting in the way” of fire fields, those who might stack from fire fields almost always does it before combat and they should. Aside from smoke and fire fields which are used out of combat for valid reasons, there aren’t much better fields than light field aside from water fields which are extremely rare and situational.

To sum up, don’t choose between hammer and greatsword as they make a very good combo. Instead, choose hammer to sword + focus, as aside from blinds and optional and long cooldowned Shield of Wrath, there isn’t much sword + focus can offer comparing to hammer.

Interesting, I was considering that yesterday. How do you use the two in combination?

You camp hammer auto, and switch to greatsword for the burst ( 2>3>4>5> auto attack>2) then switch back and repeat. That said, hammer is still inferior to sw/f or sc/f in dungeons, because you lack burst, and since you need 4 points in the honor traitline you loose interesting traits, like absolute resolution or multipliers. For longer dungeons fight, the light field spam cripples the ability of LH eles to keep might at 25.

See http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/12646847-guardian-dps-build-theory-by-obal-dekeyz for more.

Regarding which utility skills a Guardian should bring:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/DPS-guardian-1/first#post4234782

Hammer Pros:
- Easy to use; just auto attack, use Hammer #2 after every second auto attack chain if there’s a field to blast
- Gives everyone permanent Protection which greatly increases the margin of error for your whole team; this makes a Hammer Guardian a good PUG carrier
Hammer Cons:
- Constantly produces a light field which can overwrite more useful field, especially fire fields; usually not a problem in PUGs as they don’t know what fire fields and blast finishers are anyway

Greatsword Pros:
- Highest possible damage
- Blind (= 3 stacks of Vulnerability with trait)
- Pull

I don’t always use hammer, but when I do, I throw mighty blow into my rotation at the beginning and end of my hammer swap. Interrupting the AA chain will decrease overall dps, but if it’s used before the chain and right before swapping to GS it will add a bit more burst.

Also, try to keep an eye out for when you lay the symbol down to swap. For large zergs (like Tequatl) when you can’t see your attack animation, you may want to be familiar with the AA chain on the skillbar to know when to MB or swap.

Thank you for the response again Oxtred and the other posters. I think I made up my mind and will stick with the greatsword for now in PvE for sure, hammer is very tempting for other situations though, but the lightfield is apparently a killer, which I can understand! I gotta say again I find it a real shame ,as thematically a hammer just feels more “guardian”-ey than a sword, but it is how it is in the end.

If you really want to use hammer, you could do it with a group you trust and just bring hallowed ground before starting your auto attack chain, that way the light fields won’t override the fire one. Still lack burst, but you won’t make your eles sad, and won’t be forced into a weaponset you don’t like.

I’ve had good luck with hammer in PUGs I don’t really trust to get through the encounter easily. It never hurts to have an assortment of weapons, and just swap when you feel the need. You can change your traits/gear on the fly to match whatever the situation.

yeah I’ll just bring most weaps along, can always change if it goes south :-)

Main problem I and most others I know have with the hammer is 3 fold

1 : light field can override fire & water fields. (has been said above)
&
2: Auto attack chain is so godaweful slow. (they could easily keep the protection up time & damage potential more or less the same by reducing the cast time of the last hammer swing to 1/2 second but also reducing the pulses the symbol does by 1.)

3: Damage potential is lower then greatsword.

This makes the hammer good for pug groups & WvW but not something you would want to bring very often in spvp (other then for some very specific builds)

I think a lot of people under estimate hammer damage. It is actually higher than sword auto attack dps if I had done my math and animation times right.

It lacks the burst potential of other weapons, such as greatsword, but you swap to the GS for the burst abilities and go back hammer and you maintain that burst dps just as you would with swapping gs and going back sw/foc for auto. Greatsword auto is actually slightly lower, discounting might stacks it provides than hammer. Again assuming I did animation and damage calculations correct.

Hammer is slow, but since it has an overlapping symbol the whole duration of the auto attack it doubles up the damage while it is going, providing a higher “unmodified” dps.

Again the problem is utility and situation/need of hammer skills. sword or scepter also work well for higher off burst sustain auto dps (counting smite as part of the “auto attack”) but the sword also provides extra projectile blocking utility and blinds for survival.

Negating projectiles or adding another layer of blinds to prevent an attack as a whole is normally better than taking damage at all, even if it reduced by 33% with protection boons, thus sword tend to win out for the meta build, but hammer has it’s place. As much so scepter, depending on the fight and if blinds or projectiles are even needed or work.

Also consider mob size, as smite tends to miss half of the hits on normal and smaller sized targets. If it is large, you may get more auto/smite out of scepter than sword. Again not everything is about dps but consider utility and situation as well.

mace and staff have the lowest dps, even if you include symbols as a secondary ticking dmg while auto attacking. They do provide, how ever, other mechanics such as heals, blocks, and might boons, when needed.

Normally you don’t need might boons due to fire field blasting and other classes providing enough combined might, and heals are not as readily necessary in pve, but in pvp they see a lot of use.

So when it comes down to it, hammer is not a bad choice and provides a easily obtained passive utility with out hurting dps. Sword on the other hand provides more “skilled” active use of utility that can complete negate some attacks, and scepter is pretty much just raw damage, unless you count immobilize to keep targets stationary, which HAS come in handy in some fights, such as the aetherblade cannons breaking shield stacks.

Following the meta build in pve will serve you well when it all comes together, that is why it is the meta build.

But, bottom line: use what you need, when you need, don’t ignore options cause someone told you something else is “best”.

I agree CMF, when I was doing some dps testing the hammer comes out quite well since it gets sustained dps over time rather than burst. However, as several folks already pointed out that lightfield is a real dealbreaker, which is a shame because otherwise it is a weapon that offers so much control otherwise (whether you need that control can be debated and argued about since as you said blinds and other things can be better).

Part of me really hopes arenanet realises some of the faults in weapons (doesnt only go for Guardian from what I have experienced), but something tells me they feel it is “fine” , real shame.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Main problem I and most others I know have with the hammer is 3 fold

1 : light field can override fire & water fields. (has been said above)
&
2: Auto attack chain is so godaweful slow. (they could easily keep the protection up time & damage potential more or less the same by reducing the cast time of the last hammer swing to 1/2 second but also reducing the pulses the symbol does by 1.)

3: Damage potential is lower then greatsword.

This makes the hammer good for pug groups & WvW but not something you would want to bring very often in spvp (other then for some very specific builds)

Well for PvE all of the three problems are solved practically.

1. Fire fields are almost never used in combat for might stacking and anyone who intends to might stack knows/should know it is good practice to do it out of combat not to mess with other people’s rotations and therefore their personal dps. So the light field hammer provides shouldn’t compete against fire fields in any way if the might stacker(s) know what they are doing. As for water fields, they should be used in combat. However the water fields that can be put down are scarce and practically even less so as an Elementalist has to switch to staff water attunement which is a dps loss. The water fields that can be put down then can be provided by the likes of Rangers and Engineers in which have a very large field comparing to our tiny symbol to begin with. All you or the group has to do is back few steps away and blast.

2. Being slow doesn’t really matter in PvE, as long as you have high DPS. Obal calculated that Hammer camping is only second to Greatsword camping – with right builds – so even with its slow attack, hammer beats any of our weapons terms of dps aside from Greatsword.

3. As I said above, Greatsword is our highest damage weapon but even it has its weakness – its auto attack. For this reason, in PvE Greatsword is coupled with other weapons which have superior auto attack damage to compensate and maximize damage. According to obal’s work and my personal observations, Hammer/Greatsword combo does the best damage in PvE a Guardian can have. Greatsword is the best dps weapon we have, but Hammer/Greatsword duo has even greater potential.

Note: Although Hammer doesn’t have blinds, its Protection isn’t negated by the likes of Dredge and bosses. And quite frankly, there are too many people who can spam blind easier than us in the meta but noone even remotely close in terms of practically and simplicity to provide permanent Protection.

We use in combat stacking against long bosses, maybe that’s not common in pugs though. It’s not a matter of DPS, It’s a matter of burst. Most bosses will be dead just when you drop your 3rd symbol, and you need to re stack might for the others. Also, the best dps for guardian is scepter. But yeah, hammer is a great weapon. It’s just not suited for dungeons.