Guild Wars 2

I use a combination of PVT and Cleric’s armor. I did all the content and people love to have me in their group. Here are the facts: if things go bad, there is the Guardian who can save me, I rez the hell out of my group. I support my group with constant buffs.

The argument of using only Berserker gear is childish and doesn’t compare to the reality in the game. Fact is there are people going down, be cause they run out of vigor, and can’t dodge anymore, they are out of their utility skills and have aggro from boss. There am I, the Guardian saving him/her. Often this happens with with offensive players. I don’t say this is bad, but as a Guardian it is extremely useful.

Often I read, ‘as a good player, you can easily use Berserker’. This is not true: as a very experienced Dungeon player I often am the last man standing (let’s say situations like the Wurm at the beginning of Twilight Arbor), rezzing ppl. Buffing them, giving them health and might, vigor etc. There are many, many pionts in this game, where you simply just can wait and die, be cause you are out of energy, out of your utility etc.

Also I noticed, since i have a kittenload of toughness, that I aggro bosses. Sometimes the whole battle. Other players like it, be cause they don’t have to worry and can do full damage. Don’t forget: if you have full offensive stats and no defense (aside from dodge and maybe 1-2 utilities with longer cooldowns), if you have to dodge and fight for your survival, you don’t do damage. So just to point that out: a dead berserker does zero damage, a constantly dodging, evading berserker does less damage as one who can stay in front, stand there and keep up constant damage.

Booting someone from a group for not gearing the way you want is dumb. However, arguing that people should put up with people they’d rather not group with is equally dumb.

So please stop shooting idiot pistols at one another. You’re missing your targets and lowering the collective I.Q. of the community around you.

Kirschwasser.3972:

Amins.3710:

Obtena.7952:

You know what the best part is …

Even if someone was wearing PVT gear in a dungeon vs. something else, you wouldn’t even notice it. So much for the macho elitism.

+1
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Actually it’s painfully easy to notice, so long as there’s a moment where he’s the only one attacking a given mob.

That’s not true because the damage someone does is a perception. To make that statement, you need a quantitative way to measure a certain performance level for a player in a specific encounter AND determine what fraction of their performance is due to gear vs. their own skill. You, nor anyone else, has access to a tool like that. If a player is not performing to your standard, it could be a number of factors, gear being only ONE.

Furthermore … how many dungeons are there were a team has the opportunity to observe a single person fighting a mob with everyone else just sitting back and telling him how much they suck because they are making assumptions about his gear? Don’t bother … that’s a rhetorical question.

Seetoo.9316:

But that’s exactly what selfish means. To not care for the greater good of the group because your own preference takes higher priority.

Sorry for the double post but this statement really burned me up. It’s completely ignorant.

When do you start to recognize that a person who knows they are not capable or ready to wear zerker gear in teaming scenarios who is NOT wearing zerker DOES care for the greater good of the team?

It’s sad to see this elitism. In MOST cases I have seen, a player will use the gear they feel most successful in because they WILL want to do their best. As much as a player can be undergeared, their can also be overgeared. I don’t want zerker monkeys for teamates in PUGS. I want people comfortable in their own skin. No one has anything to prove.

CptAurellian.9537:

PVT is useless in open world and deserves a kick in dungeons/fractals.

Clumsy.6257:

anyone that uses pvt in a dungeon/fractals absolutely deserves a kick, using pvt would slow down the group and waste peoples time, nobody cares if your running around open world in full pvt though

Ahh… so the WoW crowd really has made it to GW2. Good to know.

Obtena.7952:

Kirschwasser.3972:

Amins.3710:

Obtena.7952:

You know what the best part is …

Even if someone was wearing PVT gear in a dungeon vs. something else, you wouldn’t even notice it. So much for the macho elitism.

+1
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Actually it’s painfully easy to notice, so long as there’s a moment where he’s the only one attacking a given mob.

That’s not true because the damage someone does is a perception. To make that statement, you need a quantitative way to measure a certain performance level for a player in a specific encounter AND determine what fraction of their performance is due to gear vs. their own skill. You, nor anyone else, has access to a tool like that. If a player is not performing to your standard, it could be a number of factors, gear being only ONE.

Furthermore … how many dungeons are there were a team has the opportunity to observe a single person fighting a mob with everyone else just sitting back and telling him how much they suck because they are making assumptions about his gear? Don’t bother … that’s a rhetorical question.

… Or I can look at one member of his class and weapon damaging a mob compared to watching him attack and damage a mob and go “Oh, hey, he’s like twice as slow.”

Or, as aforementioned, changing up my gear without changing my build and noticing that my damage was plummeting as a result.

And how many dungeons are there with that opportunity? A few times in TA, AC Story, SE p3…

Kirschwasser.3972:

… Or I can look at one member of his class and weapon damaging a mob compared to watching him attack and damage a mob and go "Oh, hey, he’s like twice as slow.

What you are describing is a well organized test. It’s not something that ever happens making a team and doing content. Even if you COULD do what you say in a realistic team content setting, how do you even know if that difference is skill or gear related?

The only reason I’m challenging you on this is for the point I made in the first place … you’re not going to be capable in a PUG situation to measure someone’s capability (or lack of) to kick them based on gear. Until we get damage meters, it’s nonsense to suggest you should kick anyone for lacking damage, much less having the ‘wrong’ or ‘selfish’ gear.

Because the circumstances are able to be replicated on myself. You can even go to training dummies, if you don’t want to do a “live” test.

Your missing the point. I’m not saying you can’t make comparisons for builds and gear in a controlled setting. I’m saying you can’t make comparisons for builds and gear in a dynamic, team-building exercise while doing content. That’s not a controlled testing environment and again, even if you could, how would you separate any difference as skill or gear related?

This goes again to my point … if overzealous teams think potential teammates should be kicked because they are using ‘selfish’ or ‘wrong’ gear, you better have a REALLY repeatable and reproducible method to determine what their gear is without asking them BEFORE you take them on in your team.

And I’m saying that I personally feel I do notice it when fights are dragging on for way longer than usual.

It wouldn’t be such a problem if bosses weren’t such atrocious HP sponges.

Tolmos.8395:

CptAurellian.9537:

PVT is useless in open world and deserves a kick in dungeons/fractals.

Clumsy.6257:

anyone that uses pvt in a dungeon/fractals absolutely deserves a kick, using pvt would slow down the group and waste peoples time, nobody cares if your running around open world in full pvt though

Ahh… so the WoW crowd really has made it to GW2. Good to know.

I hate both, WoW and PVT gear on PvE.
Care to explain your point?

It was a shallow attempt to insult people that hold certain opinions.

Granted, people that say “these people deserve a kick” are kinda being kittens, but it’s their party, do what you want.

Kirschwasser.3972:

And I’m saying that I personally feel I do notice it when fights are dragging on for way longer than usual.

It wouldn’t be such a problem if bosses weren’t such atrocious HP sponges.

I can agree with that … but I really find it hard for you to be able to single any particular person out as the culprit for whatever lack of damage your feeling and then feel justified in kicking them, assuming they aren’t full zerkers! That’s just pure speculation and it’s scapegoating. If you want fast fights, be specific when making PUGs or don’t PUG at all.

Kirschwasser.3972:

Granted, people that say “these people deserve a kick” are kinda being kittens, but it’s their party, do what you want.

Eww, I can’t believe people think like this! It’s THEIR party? Unless I missed something, no one ‘owns’ a party or invests any more into being in that party than anyone else in it. I’m hoping I’m just misunderstanding here … but everyone contributing to the party deserves to be in it unless they are being malicious, AFK or something similar.

Kirschwasser.3972:

It was a shallow attempt to insult people that hold certain opinions.

Or a simple observation that a particular type of player has begun to surface in GW2… the type of player that WoW’s community is known to be infested with.

Kirschwasser.3972:

It was a shallow attempt to insult people that hold certain opinions.

Granted, people that say “these people deserve a kick” are kinda being kittens, but it’s their party, do what you want.

Like i said earlier in this thread, i never kicked someone because of his or her gear, but to be honest, i probably didn’t enjoyed having said person on my group, because let’s be realists here, no matter what reasons if you did not enjoy having someone on your group you’re most likely not inviting him or her again.

Ah, keep in mind that i’m talking about people with experience, which should have some knowledge about the game mechanics, i’ve got nothing against helping new peeps that just started out to clear a dungeon, they’re definitely not going to make their gear appear out of nothing, so… yeah.

Imbune.5497:

subclavian.5839:

I do take issue with people that try to force everyone to play the game their way. Accusing people of selfishness for not dressing in full zerker, requiring armor checks and achievement points to run dungeons, kicking non-DPS builds etc is simply raising the barrier of entry and making things needlessly difficult, imho.

Hit the nail right on the head there.

You can take the raid out of the game but you can’t take the raid mentality out of the player it seems. Oh noes-you’re in pvt; now we’ll take a full 5 minutes longer on the dungeon run! Those 5 minutes will put me at a great disadvantage 2hours from now, 3 days from now, 1 month from now, 1 year from now-be sure I will be worse off and you’ll be the sole reason. I suggest stop arguing with these types of ppl-the thought process of someone who believes that is obviously immature, and due to the anonymous and safe nature of the internet it festers arrogance of epic proportions. Maybe when they grow up they’ll realize how silly they were, but for now let the kids be kids….because you can’t do anything to an immature mind on the internet anyway-noway to show them reason.

Also, how silly would it seem for you to be seen arguing with a child in real life? So why bother arguing with them in the internet? They will (most of them….I hope) grow out of it in time.

Regarding OP: personally I like knights armor, zerker weapons with variable trinkets depending on the class for my ‘one set to rule them all’

I was like this at some point. I was so incredibly irate with people that slowed MMO efficiency down. I worked hard for my gear, studying my class and then mastering my class that I felt everyone wasting time was wasting mine. Then a friend pointed something out to me and I actually thought about it: what does this time saved accomplish? The answer is practically nothing. The time saved adds up little by little but what’s 30 minutes saved in 2 months? What’s 2 hours saved in 3 weeks? I’m not really accomplishing anything in this game and those 2 hours are accomplishing very little in a game I’m using to not accomplish anything IRL….

So my attitude is drastically changed. When bad players waste my time by being bad and I’m stuck taking 30-45 minutes on a 12-15 minute run it’s pretty frustrating but when I’m taking 15-20 minutes on a on a 12-15 minute run I could care less.

Back on topic I should be hitting 80 Guardian in the next few days. I’ve played guard in PvP quite a bit but I haven’t touched it for PvE outside leveling and living story stuff I could do. My followup question to OP’s is if I were to go with hybrid of Knights(or PVT if I decide to) and berserker what do I use for Weapons? Is it more efficient to go Knights or Zerker?

Obtena.7952:

Kirschwasser.3972:

And I’m saying that I personally feel I do notice it when fights are dragging on for way longer than usual.

It wouldn’t be such a problem if bosses weren’t such atrocious HP sponges.

I can agree with that … but I really find it hard for you to be able to single any particular person out as the culprit for whatever lack of damage your feeling and then feel justified in kicking them, assuming they aren’t full zerkers! That’s just pure speculation and it’s scapegoating. If you want fast fights, be specific when making PUGs or don’t PUG at all.

Kirschwasser.3972:

Granted, people that say “these people deserve a kick” are kinda being kittens, but it’s their party, do what you want.

Eww, I can’t believe people think like this! It’s THEIR party? Unless I missed something, no one ‘owns’ a party or invests any more into being in that party than anyone else in it. I’m hoping I’m just misunderstanding here … but everyone contributing to the party deserves to be in it unless they are being malicious, AFK or something similar.

If I’m inviting you to do content with me and I have certain expectations, I am well entitled to kick you for failing to meet those expectations. I sent the invitation, I was the organizer.

… So long as I’ve informed you of these expectations.

Tolmos.8395:

Kirschwasser.3972:

It was a shallow attempt to insult people that hold certain opinions.

Or a simple observation that a particular type of player has begun to surface in GW2… the type of player that WoW’s community is known to be infested with.

A simple observation made with an entirely snarky tone.

So… not a “simple observation”.

Kirschwasser.3972:

… So long as I’ve informed you of these expectations.

That’s fair. Unfortunately, I don’t see people with that kind of rigorous approach to forming teams. That’s what makes statements being made about kicking people from team because of there gear so offensive to me. That whole approach to gauging someone because of gear is flawed in the first place. Think of this …

You find some Guardian in full zerker … get him in team and you find he needs ALOT of reviving. He met your expectation for gear. Do you kick him? Do you regret not getting someone in ‘not-zerker’ gear that knows how to play and stay alive, therefore making a smoother and faster run? I bet you would. The dying zerker guy is a much bigger liability than the guy that knows his limits and gears appropriately. People making PUG teams should be looking for players, not gear stats.

Gear is a TERRIBLE indicator of someone’s skill or potential performance.

Kirschwasser.3972:

Tolmos.8395:

Kirschwasser.3972:

It was a shallow attempt to insult people that hold certain opinions.

Or a simple observation that a particular type of player has begun to surface in GW2… the type of player that WoW’s community is known to be infested with.

A simple observation made with an entirely snarky tone.

So… not a “simple observation”.

So, wait.. being snarky immediately makes it a “complex observation”? Bah, semantics!

Yet another completely unproductive thread spent with people using circular arguments to try and prove their point. I am pretty sure that no amount of “proof” from either side is ever going to exist to convince someone who already has their mind made up. Furthermore since the criteria for “fun” is subjective and will vary from person to person there actually can be no right or wrong way. If a person when forming a group makes it clear what their expectations are and you try to join the group or trick them into thinking you meet those expectations when you don’t,then and only then are you being selfish. First time runners of dungeons should probably avoid the all zerker route, because it does provide at least a small cushion for mistakes, but you should also make it known that you have not tackled that particular content if for no other reason than to have some of the mechanics explained. I doubt highly that there are really that many people out there that would kick someone for being inexperienced if they express a genuine desire to learn the encounters. If a person’s choice is to play using a certain gear set and they still know the encounters, it does not make that person selfish by default just because of their gear choice so long as they are not trying to pass themselves off as something they are not. Communication as always is the key, so long as people know where they stand with one another as far as expectations then there really can never be any disappointment. “You” like to run all zerker pain trains fine and “you” don’t, also fine. Everyone wins and everyone is happy.

Kirschwasser.3972:

And I’m saying that I personally feel I do notice it when fights are dragging on for way longer than usual.

It wouldn’t be such a problem if bosses weren’t such atrocious HP sponges.

No you don’t. You think you do, and assign the blame to the one PVT pug on your party.

Let’s run the numbers. Say for example a typical 12-min dungeon run. Now usually half the time will be spent running from place A to place B, skipping through cut scenes, dodging rolling stones/standing on pillars or whatever puzzle the dungeon has. All this has nothing to do with PVT armor. So you spend around 6 mins in a typical 12-min run actually fighting, where DPS makes a difference.

Then let’s say the PVT guy does half damage of your typical full-zerker (for those of you who think PVT can’t even do half damage, https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Best-PvE-tank-bunker-build/first#post2508972 ), and that’s being very stringent. Since you have 5 members on a party, that constitutes a 10% drop in DPS. 6 min = 360 sec. 360 divided by 9/10 is 400. So instead of finishing a run in 12 mins, you finish it in 12 min 40 sec, a 5.3% increase in time spent.

If you’re running dungeons religiously 4 hrs a day like a second job, you end up wasting 12 min per day because you took on a PVT pug. Bathroom breaks take longer than that. The time you spend posting wall-of-texts on zerker elitism in this thread takes longer than that. Are you seriously suggesting your time is so precious that taking 12 extra mins per day is going to kill you? Do you have to be at the gym in 26 mins? If time is so precious to you, shouldn’t you not spend 4 hours a day playing video games?

All those anecdotes cited by zerker fanboys about how a 12 min run dragged into 30~40 mins because one guy had the gall to wear PVT are simply lies. No gear has that much effect in the game, unless you’re constantly dying and requiring others to spend time rezzing you. Which you will, if you’re a noob wearing zerker because everyone on the boards say you should.

I’m not saying that a single person in PVT gear is going to drag down the entire dungeon, otherwise I’d never run my own Cleric’s gear.

I am saying, however, that the difference in one person’s performance between gearsets is demonstrably different and if you had, say, three people geared out that way, the dungeon would indeed take much longer.

My time isn’t precious, but I don’t like staring at the same boss for near to five minutes because he was designed as a lazy hp sponge and we’re not kitted out to shred the sponge. Some of the zerker elitists and fanboys are kittenheads about it, but the fact still remains that it’s more efficient and ends fights faster. If people’s playstyles favor other stat spreads, that’s fine. I wear Cleric gear in dungeons many times because I like support and sometimes I’m just not on the ball enough to keep myself alive.

However, my damage output is demonstrably lower and battles take noticably longer. Even in dungeon parties I’ve run before.

You can handwave everything as being super complex and being unable to be proven because of all of these variables, but you can’t handwave the simple fact that you do tons more damage on bosses and most bosses are hp sponges that don’t pose a threat to anybody, Zerker gear or no.

I just want to re-iterate that I support people that want to play gear other than Zerker’s, I just accept the reality that it’s less overall efficient.

Kirschwasser.3972:

I just want to re-iterate that I support people that want to play gear other than Zerker’s, I just accept the reality that it’s less overall efficient.

I agree wholeheartedly. But please stop treating people in PVT like they’re hitler.

subclavian.5839:

Kirschwasser.3972:

I just want to re-iterate that I support people that want to play gear other than Zerker’s, I just accept the reality that it’s less overall efficient.

I agree wholeheartedly. But please stop treating people in PVT like they’re hitler.

I think I’ve done quite the opposite. The only thing I’ve said is that I feel the lack of damage is demonstrably noticeable. I certainly haven’t gone the route of calling PVTers selfish or implying that they’re nooby nooblords from Noobulon VIII.

Kirschwasser.3972:

Noobulon VIII.

Been there. Decent cheese danishes but nothing to write home about.

Kirschwasser.3972:

nooby nooblords from Noobulon VIII.

This will be my new “jerk answer” to every new person in game…for the rest of time!! This is great lol.

lol sorry, that wasn’t directed at you personally, but zerker elitests in general.

The PvE zerker trend is due to a terrible miscalculation on Anet’s part, and I refuse to believe that’s how they intended for GW2 to be played. It promotes a passive and reactionary style of gameplay where dodging red circles and recognizing animation sequences are the most valuable skills a noob can master.

Recent living world events such as the aetherblade retreat and queen’s pavalion have been trying to remedy that, but as long as the traditional dungeons are still full zerkerfests, nothing will change.

subclavian.5839:

lol sorry, that wasn’t directed at you personally, but zerker elitests in general.

The PvE zerker trend is due to a terrible miscalculation on Anet’s part, and I refuse to believe that’s how they intended for GW2 to be played. It promotes a passive and reactionary style of gameplay where dodging red circles and recognizing animation sequences are the most valuable skills a noob can master.

Recent living world events such as the aetherblade retreat and queen’s pavalion have been trying to remedy that, but as long as the traditional dungeons are still full zerkerfests, nothing will change.

So situational awareness and proper usage of GW2’s primary feature (dodging) should be derided? I think it’s the exact opposite. Traditional trinity gameplay encourages only two things: the tank to not die and the cleric to help him in that endeavour. Occasionally, mechanics are thrown into the mix, but it’s incredibly simplistic, isn’t it? Or, at least, more simplistic than GW2’s dodge mechanic, which forces players to think independently from the zerg.

That said, you’d be absolutely shocked at how many people are incapable of dodging. Tons. Most pugs, actually. This is why people think that PVT or defensive gear is necessary. They use tankier gear to supplement their poor gaming ability through the gear providing themselves a larger margin for error. If people know how to dodge and know mechanics, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to run anything but Berserker gear. This is also why groups tend to kick players who run such specs. If the entire team is fine without a healbot, then what is the defensively-specced player bringing to the table? Essentially nothing, and they are subsequently carried by the rest of the team. I think that deserves a kick from group, don’t you?

Nope.

Because for all your well-written rhetoric about independent thought and not running with the zerg, you sure seem to want everyone to be the same. Let people play how they have fun. Guild runs or other organized play, do whatever you want, but if you’re pugging don’t chastise people for daring to go against the grain. As someone showed above, it’s not like it’s costing you much time.

subclavian.5839:

Kirschwasser.3972:

And I’m saying that I personally feel I do notice it when fights are dragging on for way longer than usual.

It wouldn’t be such a problem if bosses weren’t such atrocious HP sponges.

No you don’t. You think you do, and assign the blame to the one PVT pug on your party.

Let’s run the numbers. Say for example a typical 12-min dungeon run. Now usually half the time will be spent running from place A to place B, skipping through cut scenes, dodging rolling stones/standing on pillars or whatever puzzle the dungeon has. All this has nothing to do with PVT armor. So you spend around 6 mins in a typical 12-min run actually fighting, where DPS makes a difference.

Then let’s say the PVT guy does half damage of your typical full-zerker (for those of you who think PVT can’t even do half damage, https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Best-PvE-tank-bunker-build/first#post2508972 ), and that’s being very stringent. Since you have 5 members on a party, that constitutes a 10% drop in DPS. 6 min = 360 sec. 360 divided by 9/10 is 400. So instead of finishing a run in 12 mins, you finish it in 12 min 40 sec, a 5.3% increase in time spent.

If you’re running dungeons religiously 4 hrs a day like a second job, you end up wasting 12 min per day because you took on a PVT pug. Bathroom breaks take longer than that. The time you spend posting wall-of-texts on zerker elitism in this thread takes longer than that. Are you seriously suggesting your time is so precious that taking 12 extra mins per day is going to kill you? Do you have to be at the gym in 26 mins? If time is so precious to you, shouldn’t you not spend 4 hours a day playing video games?

All those anecdotes cited by zerker fanboys about how a 12 min run dragged into 30~40 mins because one guy had the gall to wear PVT are simply lies. No gear has that much effect in the game, unless you’re constantly dying and requiring others to spend time rezzing you. Which you will, if you’re a noob wearing zerker because everyone on the boards say you should.

Yes, but what you left out is that 40s = massive ego increase, which is priceless to mindless neanderthals.

Boonprot.6274:

I think that deserves a kick from group, don’t you?

Actually NO. If you make the team, you are committing to run with someone. If you join a team, you are committing to stay. If you feel there is a reason to not have someone in a team, don’t invite them in the first place. You have to set the expectation with the people in your group of what you want from them.

Even if you don’t believe that ‘good manners’ gaming approach, here are a few pragmatic points that would prevent any meaningful application of that ‘kicking-on-gear’ theory anyways:

1. You don’t actually know what gear people are using, unless you ask
2. The difference in gear has an almost negligible affect on time saved to run a dungeon
3. You will have almost no ability to determine who in the team is responsible if you THINK your run is too slow (HINT: it’s probably a FEW people, not just one)
4. You will have no ability to determine if it’s skill or gear making a person ‘bad’ even if you can pinpoint someone as the source of your non-optimized team.
5. Gear is a bad (the worst?) measure of capability to begin with

Did I forget any?

There are two ways to make teams:

1. Just grab any 4 people
2. Plan and organize roles, find people, test and optimize your gameplay

If you are in group 1 (aren’t most people?), your expectations aren’t that high anyways so have no justification to kick anyone unless they are AFK and leeching.

I don’t know. If a heavily defensively-specced player brings nothing to my group, that means I’m carrying them with my group members. I don’t see why I should carry a player who is either too stubborn to spec properly, or too inept to dodge.

Kirschwasser.3972:

Obtena.7952:

Kirschwasser.3972:

Amins.3710:

Obtena.7952:

You know what the best part is …

Even if someone was wearing PVT gear in a dungeon vs. something else, you wouldn’t even notice it. So much for the macho elitism.

+1
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Actually it’s painfully easy to notice, so long as there’s a moment where he’s the only one attacking a given mob.

That’s not true because the damage someone does is a perception. To make that statement, you need a quantitative way to measure a certain performance level for a player in a specific encounter AND determine what fraction of their performance is due to gear vs. their own skill. You, nor anyone else, has access to a tool like that. If a player is not performing to your standard, it could be a number of factors, gear being only ONE.

Furthermore … how many dungeons are there were a team has the opportunity to observe a single person fighting a mob with everyone else just sitting back and telling him how much they suck because they are making assumptions about his gear? Don’t bother … that’s a rhetorical question.

… Or I can look at one member of his class and weapon damaging a mob compared to watching him attack and damage a mob and go “Oh, hey, he’s like twice as slow.”

Or, as aforementioned, changing up my gear without changing my build and noticing that my damage was plummeting as a result.

And how many dungeons are there with that opportunity? A few times in TA, AC Story, SE p3…

I always notice it too. It’s really easy to tell given I’ve just hit the 1000 mark for dungeons run. I don’t even have to watch for the guy to jump on a single mob and painfully try to kill it.. I just know the speed at which the run should be going and then look around and see, especially when the rest of my members are friends or guild members who’s gear I already am aware of. I then ask them to ping or tell me what it is they are running, and it’s either PVT or MF, although I have seen some clerics guys too. I haven’t been wrong yet.

Here’s a proper DPS Guardian VS some Risen Giants: http://youtu.be/NoXwp94Bltk

Would any of you PVT Guardian advocates mind recording and posting a video of your “tank” spec VS a Risen Giant? We will also get to see how good of a player you are, so we can see if your PVT is a crutch for poor skill level or not. Post a video if you aren’t afraid

Oh kitten its brazil runs and hides

Hide yo kids, hide yo wife.

I find that for PvE full zerk gear is the way to go (Guardian is the only class that I can say that about without reservation.) The Guardian can easily survive pretty much anything in zerk gear because of all the damage mitigation and heals you can get through traits. For WvW you might want to have a second set with a little more toughness/vitality without necessarily going full PTV.

With my guardian I run a mix of knights and zerkers for more dps with alittle survivability. I don’t see any point to running pvt gears in dungeons when it just slows things down, unless your into that sort of thing which is your choice of how you want to play.

@brazil:
Kind of an unfair example, don’t you think? For enemies that initially have low damage but increase their damage throughout the battle (risen giants and that champion risen abomination), I agree finishing the battle quicker is better. Fortunately, most enemies aren’t like that

On the other hand, I challenge you to play this game on an unreliable 3G network (I travel alot) and see how well-timed your dodges are.

subclavian.5839:

@brazil:
Kind of an unfair example, don’t you think? For enemies that initially have low damage but increase their damage throughout the battle (risen giants and that champion risen abomination), I agree finishing the battle quicker is better. Fortunately, most enemies aren’t like that

On the other hand, I challenge you to play this game on an unreliable 3G network (I travel alot) and see how well-timed your dodges are.

Actually, prolonging fights by using Soldier’s gear does nothing but give enemies more opportunity to kill you and your party. In every single case in this game, the faster you can kill an enemy the better off you will be. I gave a perfectly fair example and a lot of people use Risen Giants for DPS tests.

There is a fellow in my guild that lives in Europe, plays on a laptop, and has terrible internet problems that result in pretty obvious lag (we can see him teleporting around the map, he disconnects a lot, he doesn’t show up in the party UI all the time). He rarely makes mistakes. He plays with the same builds I use, never misses Feedbacks at Lupicus, never misses blocks on his Guardian, etc. He never complains, doesn’t talk much, and plays extremely well no matter what type of internet problems he has. Lag is a bad excuse and Soldier’s Gear is selfish option. You are putting your group at more of a risk, crippling your own skill level, and being lazy above all else.

Your friend from europe must have awesome telekinetic powers because I find it hard to dodge attacks when I see the animation 2 seconds after the hit. But whatever, that’s not the point.

The point is if DPS builds become the norm and everything else is considered “selfish”, GW2 will cease to be an RPG and turn into a modern day version of Raiden. A role playing game that doesn’t allow you to play actual roles in combat (except wearing silly outfits), does that sound like fun to you?

Obtena.7952:

There are two ways to make teams:

1. Just grab any 4 people
2. Plan and organize roles, find people, test and optimize your gameplay

If you are in group 1 (aren’t most people?), your expectations aren’t that high anyways so have no justification to kick anyone unless they are AFK and leeching.

I would say most people are in group three below.

3. Advertise the PuG, with specific requests such as “must wear funny hat” or “tell me your favorite color of crayon”, both of which are funny but real examples. Other examples can include such things as must be this geared to ride this ride, must read chat, must use voicechat, the use of a specific language, age based, level based, no Charr or Charr only, and yes build and gear restrictions.

I do believe in a good manners approach to gaming in general, finding it more relaxing. Joining a group that was advertised with a specific request, when one is unwilling to meet the request, strikes me as poor manners.

subclavian.5839:

Your friend from europe must have awesome telekinetic powers because I find it hard to dodge attacks when I see the animation 2 seconds after the hit. But whatever, that’s not the point.

The point is if DPS builds become the norm and everything else is considered “selfish”, GW2 will cease to be an RPG and turn into a modern day version of Raiden. A role playing game that doesn’t allow you to play actual roles in combat (except wearing silly outfits), does that sound like fun to you?

So you cant for whatever reason play outside of pvt gear, that’s fine.. but that doesn’t make it a better set, or somehow lessen it from being a poor choice. That fact of the matter is, Zerker still does more. You can talk of ideals and perceptions of how the game is and what it could become, ceasing to be an RPG and other doomsday notions, but that will never change the reality. The reality is that unfortunately for you, zerker set is the better choice in dungeons.

swiftpaw.6397:

The reality is that unfortunately for you, zerker set is the better choice in dungeons.

Of course. But there’s a fine line between choosing a suboptimal build and being selfish.

swiftpaw.6397:

The reality is that unfortunately for you, zerker set is the better choice in dungeons.

The debate here (at least to me) isn’t if PVT or zerkers is better. It’s if you kick people from team for what gear they are wearing, especially considering the 5 points I listed.

Llyren.3904:

I do believe in a good manners approach to gaming in general, finding it more relaxing. Joining a group that was advertised with a specific request, when one is unwilling to meet the request, strikes me as poor manners.

Sure and there isn’t a reason for doing that, just like it’s unreasonable to kick someone who doesn’t wear the gear you want part way through a dungeon.

Obtena.7952:

swiftpaw.6397:

The reality is that unfortunately for you, zerker set is the better choice in dungeons.

The debate here (at least to me) isn’t if PVT or zerkers is better. It’s if you kick people from team for what gear they are wearing, especially considering the 5 points I listed.

Llyren.3904:

I do believe in a good manners approach to gaming in general, finding it more relaxing. Joining a group that was advertised with a specific request, when one is unwilling to meet the request, strikes me as poor manners.

Sure and there isn’t a reason for doing that, just like it’s unreasonable to kick someone who doesn’t wear the gear you want part way through a dungeon.

I completely agree that it is not appropriate to make up new requests mid-run to justify kicking.

I do not agree that it is inappropriate to kick when you believe that the requests you started the group with have have been violated. Even if it takes you until mid-run. Even if the request was something such as the wearing of a silly hat.

Anyone can start their own group on gw2lfg if they want, put in any requests they like, and help make it a friendlier dungeon running experience out there by the tone of their requests.

Wow I am off topic though. Back on topic I suggest trying a few builds out with rare level equipment before investing in exotics, much cheaper, and it will help you decide what you prefer. There are also some cheaper level 76-79 exotics that can often help you get a feel.

Do not pigeonhole yourself to one build/gearset only, it will be changed. Every game, every time.

Kirschwasser.3972:

I just want to re-iterate that I support people that want to play gear other than Zerker’s, I just accept the reality that it’s less overall efficient.

Depends on the group and the individual, dead/downed do no damage.

Hi Kirsch.

~Nuum

Niim.9260:

Kirschwasser.3972:

I just want to re-iterate that I support people that want to play gear other than Zerker’s, I just accept the reality that it’s less overall efficient.

Depends on the group and the individual, dead/downed do no damage.

The trick to play with zerker gear is to not die. I mean, it is the main idea in this game (or any game, actually), in general.