Guild Wars 2

Too all of you arguing with the Elitists.

The Elite “wear zerk and nothing else or you are useless” people are a minority. Yes they play well, yes they are obsessed about saving a few minutes on a run, yes they are narrow minded and arrogant and no amount of discussion and debate will ever change their mindset. So why bother even trying to have an intelligent conversation with them? We suck, play bad, and are completely selfish cause we choose not to be like them, end of story. Just ignore their party requests on LFG, block them in Game chat when you meet them, kick them from your party when they joi, pretend they don’t exist and disregard whatever they say when you see them on the forums. ThenTyria becomes world of tolerance and acceptance towards all races and professions where everyone can have fun without being judged by arrogant narrow minded intolerant people.

Julie Yann.5379:

Too all of you arguing with the Elitists.

The Elite “wear zerk and nothing else or you are useless” people are a minority. Yes they play well, yes they are obsessed about saving a few minutes on a run, yes they are narrow minded and arrogant and no amount of discussion and debate will ever change their mindset. So why bother even trying to have an intelligent conversation with them? We suck, play bad, and are completely selfish cause we choose not to be like them, end of story. Just ignore their party requests on LFG, block them in Game chat when you meet them, kick them from your party when they joi, pretend they don’t exist and disregard whatever they say when you see them on the forums. ThenTyria becomes world of tolerance and acceptance towards all races and professions where everyone can have fun without being judged by arrogant narrow minded intolerant people.

Honestly players who play how they want and dont give a kitten about the party in an mmo have no respect from me. Its the people playing with all these trash builds who are narrowminded. They refuse to listen to reason just because they’d rather play a lazy build face tanking everything and not learning to play the game.

You might think your helping with supportive tanky builds, but all your really doing is encouraging bad play from your group.

spoj.9672:

Julie Yann.5379:

Too all of you arguing with the Elitists.

The Elite “wear zerk and nothing else or you are useless” people are a minority. Yes they play well, yes they are obsessed about saving a few minutes on a run, yes they are narrow minded and arrogant and no amount of discussion and debate will ever change their mindset. So why bother even trying to have an intelligent conversation with them? We suck, play bad, and are completely selfish cause we choose not to be like them, end of story. Just ignore their party requests on LFG, block them in Game chat when you meet them, kick them from your party when they joi, pretend they don’t exist and disregard whatever they say when you see them on the forums. ThenTyria becomes world of tolerance and acceptance towards all races and professions where everyone can have fun without being judged by arrogant narrow minded intolerant people.

Honestly players who play how they want and dont give a kitten about the party in an mmo have no respect from me. Its the people playing with all these trash builds who are narrowminded. They refuse to listen to reason just because they’d rather play a lazy build face tanking everything and not learning to play the game.

That’s why you ask to play with like minded people. Many of us don’t care what the other guy is playing. That gives us the freedom to play what we want to play. You guys are the only ones saying “Play this or you suck and we will kick you.” Which seems more open to you?

It’s not about being lazy or being unwilling to learn. It’s about having fun, that’s what games are for. For a lot the of people the robotic zerk speedrun is not fun, and being told to play a certain build because it is considered the best and it is the only one that you find acceptable is not fun. Basically you are no fun, that’s why we don’t join your groups. All we want is for all of you to stop preaching and insulting everyone for not adhering to your idea of what things should be.

yes they are narrow minded and arrogant and no amount of discussion and debate will ever change their mindset.

Oh really? Is that why recently, high-end dungeoneers (+ observers like myself) have moved off from the war/guard/mes meta and now accept the use of every single class in an organised dungeon group now? What changes our mindset is evidence, and since you never provide any for … anything … why should we believe what you say when you try to convince people that, say, PVT is fine for dungeons?

Zerkers I’d say are actually the most open-minded people in the game, since we run it in dungeons for maximum efficiency, so if somebody can show us how to be even more efficient, we embrace it.

We suck, play bad, and are completely selfish

We never claimed you sucked. You are however a bad player and selfish.

Just ignore their party requests on LFG, block them in Game chat when you meet them, kick them from your party when they joi, pretend they don’t exist and disregard whatever they say when you see them on the forums. ThenTyria becomes world of tolerance and acceptance towards all races and professions where everyone can have fun without being judged by arrogant narrow minded intolerant people

“A world of tolerance and acceptance, except for the people I can’t tolerate and accept”. What?

Julie Yann.5379:

Too all of you arguing with the Elitists.
[…] debate will ever change their mindset. So why bother even trying to have an intelligent conversation with them? […] Just ignore their party requests on LFG, block them in Game chat when you meet them, kick them from your party when they joi, pretend they don’t exist and disregard whatever they say when you see them on the forums.

Actually, i think it’d be harder to have an intelligent conversation with you, but maybe it is just me.

Okay, this is getting silly.

It has nothing at all to do with efficacy of builds. It’s essentially the same debate as “why bother with vanity skins when they don’t do anything for you? Just wear whatever clown outfit gives the best stats and be happy.” It’s a functional mindset versus a sensual mindset (lol gross).

The people that run non-meta builds (basically, anything but Berserker) aren’t doing so because they’re terrible at the game necessarily. There’s a huge wealth of build styles out there that aren’t PVT, though this applies equally to PVT. They play that way because it’s enjoyable to them. Something about seeing green numbers fly up everywhere is extremely agreeable to some people. Others really like seeing the boon bar explode when they’re around. Some people just like being able to facetank things because not exploding into a fleshy heap on the floor when a boss swats you is fun.

The people that run the most efficient builds do so because that’s what’s fun for them – the fastest time, the biggest hits, whatever. At least, I hope that’s why they’re doing it. It may not be the same sort of visceral fun, but an impressive clear time is definitely rewarding.

The important thing is that neither of these viewpoints are wrong. It’s just a different set of priorities. Your priorities are no more or less valid than any others; it’s your play time, the only one that decides what’s fun for you is you. Furthermore, neither of these viewpoints indicates a bad player. There are plenty of people who have made insanely creative builds for different kinds of content that completely break the mold. They didn’t do that by being bad, they did it by exemplifying the same things that people who create on-meta builds value – creativity, experience, experimentation and so on. Their priorities are just different; they build for what they find enjoyable.

Personally, I ran full berserker from November of last year until two months ago, but I stopped because it bores me to absolute tears nowadays. So I experimented with various alternatives, some more supporty and some more selfish (in the sense of lack of group synergy), and I finally made a completely bonkers one that has it all; over 1k healing power, medium survivability stats, 100% Might duration and 80% general boon duration, and 60% of a sword/focus berserker’s DPS. It’s the most fun I’ve had in a while. Are you going to tell me I’m bad for using 1600 hours of experience to build the perfect build for my own enjoyment that is also one of the least selfish for group benefit? Get out.

Likewise, berserker build pedants won’t get any negative comments from me, because if that’s how you like to play, great.

Though if you kick me from a pug that isn’t advertised as a berserker exclusive group, you’re a prick.

foofad.5162:

Okay, this is getting silly.

It has nothing at all to do with efficacy of builds. It’s essentially the same debate as “why bother with vanity skins when they don’t do anything for you? Just wear whatever clown outfit gives the best stats and be happy.” It’s a functional mindset versus a sensual mindset (lol gross).

The people that run non-meta builds (basically, anything but Berserker) aren’t doing so because they’re terrible at the game necessarily. There’s a huge wealth of build styles out there that aren’t PVT, though this applies equally to PVT. They play that way because it’s enjoyable to them. Something about seeing green numbers fly up everywhere is extremely agreeable to some people. Others really like seeing the boon bar explode when they’re around. Some people just like being able to facetank things because not exploding into a fleshy heap on the floor when a boss swats you is fun.

The people that run the most efficient builds do so because that’s what’s fun for them – the fastest time, the biggest hits, whatever. At least, I hope that’s why they’re doing it. It may not be the same sort of visceral fun, but an impressive clear time is definitely rewarding.

The important thing is that neither of these viewpoints are wrong. It’s just a different set of priorities. Your priorities are no more or less valid than any others; it’s your play time, the only one that decides what’s fun for you is you. Furthermore, neither of these viewpoints indicates a bad player. There are plenty of people who have made insanely creative builds for different kinds of content that completely break the mold. They didn’t do that by being bad, they did it by exemplifying the same things that people who create on-meta builds value – creativity, experience, experimentation and so on. Their priorities are just different; they build for what they find enjoyable.

Personally, I ran full berserker from November of last year until two months ago, but I stopped because it bores me to absolute tears nowadays. So I experimented with various alternatives, some more supporty and some more selfish (in the sense of lack of group synergy), and I finally made a completely bonkers one that has it all; over 1k healing power, medium survivability stats, 100% Might duration and 80% general boon duration, and 60% of a sword/focus berserker’s DPS. It’s the most fun I’ve had in a while. Are you going to tell me I’m bad for using 1600 hours of experience to build the perfect build for my own enjoyment that is also one of the least selfish for group benefit? Get out.

Likewise, berserker build pedants won’t get any negative comments from me, because if that’s how you like to play, great.

Though if you kick me from a pug that isn’t advertised as a berserker exclusive group, you’re a prick.

This ^^, that’s what I’ve been trying to say but was unable to resist troll in me.

I agree with what you’ve said but you also have to consider the people you are grouping with. It might be a mixed class and doesnt matter what build group. But some of those players might not want to spend hours in dungeons. The fun dissapears no matter how much you love your build if the content becomes frustrating. And the problem is many people are so selfish with their own priorities in a group environment that they cause frustration to their party members by making the dungeon far harder/longer than it needs to be.

You can have plenty of fun with your weird builds in open world pve and whatever, but in dungeons its really unfair to punish others just for your own personal enjoyment, regardless of whether your teammates are doing the same thing or not. I dont see how anyone can find completing content, where you actually have to be on your toes and dodge, boring.

spoj.9672:

I agree with what you’ve said but you also have to consider the people you are grouping with.

That goes BOTH ways. Your not going to enjoy being held back by non-zerker people, they aren’t going to enjoy being pulled through by full zerker people. The difference is that non-zerk people aren’t telling you how to gear and play while the zerker camp seems to have no problem doing that to everyone else.

Obtena.7952:

spoj.9672:

I agree with what you’ve said but you also have to consider the people you are grouping with.

That goes BOTH ways. Your not going to enjoy being held back by non-zerker people, they aren’t going to enjoy being pulled through by full zerker people. The difference is that non-zerk people aren’t telling you how to gear and play while the zerker camp seems to have no problem doing that to everyone else.

@ bold
Really?

The difference is that non-zerk people have no problem slowing down the group and not fully contributing while the zerker camp isn’t opposed to switching to zerk gear to accommodate a group setting.

BTW, I would still like to know how PVT support (boons, heals, and other utilities) is superior to zerk support (boons, heals, and other utilities).

Seetoo.9316:

@ bold
Really?

Yeah, RLY! I can see why that’s a surprise to you but … believe it or not, people in non-zerker gear aren’t the leeching, selfish baddies you all paint them to be. They actually like playing the game.

Zerker elites rushing non-zerker baddies through content is just the flipside of the non-zerker baddies dragging down Zerker elites.

Seetoo.9316:

BTW, I would still like to know how PVT support (boons, heals, and other utilities) is superior to zerk support (boons, heals, and other utilities).

I’m sure you’re so genuinely interested. I suggest you try it yourself.

Gasp the zerk camp could possibly have a non zerk preference but uses zerk in pve group content anyway because its “faster”.

My preference is actually magi gear (not zerk? UNBELIEVABLE!!) for the vigor on crit, more hp and bigger (not really) heals. I wasn’t told zerk was better, I learned it on my own (more hp didn’t prevent oneshots when they hit, and the healing power added contributed to over heals, specially after learning the dungeon).

So I guess your question about how PVT is better support than Zerker is just a poor attempt to bait me? Glad I gave it the appropriate response.

Zerker, from a pragmatic point of view, you’ll get to a point in the game where you’ll know most of the mechanics of every mob type, dungeon, boss, etc. out there, and will know what to do to counter said mechanics. At that point there will be absolutely 0 point in getting defensive stats such as vitality and toughness as you’ll rarely down again. In my opinion, it is better to skip straight to the point and wear zerker armor and learn the mechanics the hard way, I may go down and die a few times but hey, I deal tons of damage and will eventually stop dying.

I am always in zerker armor when roaming open world and when dungeoning, but i keep spare armor (not PVT, I’m a crit junkie so I can’t stand anything that takes away from my crit chance) with defensive stats to deal with content that requires/recommends it, such as WvW or things like the Queen’s Gauntlet.

Although you’ll most likely not be part of speed run crews (just assuming so because the majority of players aren’t), Zerker, imo, is still the way to go (unless you’re doing condition builds, but since this is the Guardian forums you’re unlikely to go that route anyway). It’s just more fun, I see big numbers to satisfy my ego, and it keeps me on my toes when I’m facing a difficult foe.

Obtena.7952:

spoj.9672:

I agree with what you’ve said but you also have to consider the people you are grouping with.

That goes BOTH ways. Your not going to enjoy being held back by non-zerker people, they aren’t going to enjoy being pulled through by full zerker people. The difference is that non-zerk people aren’t telling you how to gear and play while the zerker camp seems to have no problem doing that to everyone else.

I facepalmed. Only way I can see that being an issue is when experienced players force the others to skip trash mobs. But thats common practise for most groups, and most people wont skip if the majority of the group says they think its too risky. The zerker players who tolerate other gear in pugs often run the dungeon how the whole group wants to, they just give advice and tips to make it easier. There is no possible way that can take the enjoyment away from less experienced players. Unless they are stubborn idiots who only want to do things their way no matter how bad it is.

Had a case of this months back when I was pugging TA for tokens. I was leading the group through, they all new the dungeon but I was able to provide strategies to make things a little smoother and easier. We got to the final boss (Up path tree with the mortar plants). I said we can melee this, as I have enough reflects on my guard. Everyone in the group except one agreed and they thought it would be fun to try (players that had never melee’d it before). The warrior decided that he would play how he wanted and call us idiots because its safer to range it. I counter argued its perfectly easy melee and faster. Anyway we preceded to melee it with no problems while the stubborn warrior sat at max range with a rifle. After that path, he raged calling us idiots for meleeing it and left the group. The other members shared their shock with his reaction and asked me to do another path with them.

spoj.9672:

I facepalmed. Only way I can see that being an issue is when experienced players force the others to skip trash mobs. …. There is no possible way that can take the enjoyment away from less experienced players.

Considering the attitudes I have seen in this thread, I doubt everyone who believes non-zerkers drag them down in team have as polite an attitude towards the non-zerker people they team as you seem to have. This is the ‘dragging through’ I’m referring to. Of course, there is a spectrum of attitudes on both sides and I don’t want you to think I feel every zerker-only supporter is a jerk about it either.

I do think there is a lack of respect. As much as zerker supporters feel non-zerkers don’t respect their time and effort, it’s clear that zerker supporters don’t respect non-zerkers desire to play how they wish to play.

What confuses me the most is that I don’t understand the concept to begin with. Maybe it’s driven by a lack of trinity but it seems to me that zerkers philosophy is sort of “I team, but it’s a formality because we all handle ourselves. That’s why we don’t need defensive stats”. Whatever drives it, you can’t universally apply that thinking to everyone because the fundamental idea of the team is to support each other.

The negative attitude is disheartening. You aren’t going to remove people that want to use gear not dictated by ’what’s best’ or they don’t feel comfortable using. Therefore, the reactionary response of kicking, insults, whatever, is not appropriate … a preventative one of careful team choices or organized raiding is.

Obtena.7952:

spoj.9672:

I facepalmed. Only way I can see that being an issue is when experienced players force the others to skip trash mobs. …. There is no possible way that can take the enjoyment away from less experienced players.

Considering the attitudes I have seen in this thread, I doubt everyone who believes non-zerkers drag them down have as polite an attitude towards the non-zerker people they team as you seem to have. This is what I’m referring to.

Thats just forum trolling though. I think you will find most so called “elitists” on these forums are very tolerable and polite ingame when pugging. You cant be too picky when pugging some dungeons and being kitten doesnt get you anywhere.

spoj.9672:

Obtena.7952:

spoj.9672:

I agree with what you’ve said but you also have to consider the people you are grouping with.

That goes BOTH ways. Your not going to enjoy being held back by non-zerker people, they aren’t going to enjoy being pulled through by full zerker people. The difference is that non-zerk people aren’t telling you how to gear and play while the zerker camp seems to have no problem doing that to everyone else.

I facepalmed. Only way I can see that being an issue is when experienced players force the others to skip trash mobs. But thats common practise for most groups, and not all people do it. The zerker players who tolerate other gear in pugs often run the dungeon how the whole group wants to, they just give advice and tips to make it easier. There is no possible way that can take the enjoyment away from less experienced players. Unless they are stubborn idiots who only want to do things their way no matter how bad it is.

Had a case of this months back when I was pugging TA for tokens. I was leading the group through, they all new the dungeon but I was able to provide strategies to make things a little smoother and easier. We got to the final boss (Up path). I said we can melee this, as I have enough reflects on my guard. Everyone in the group except one agreed and thought it would be fun to try (players that had never melee’d it before). The warrior decided that he would play how he wanted and call us idiots because its safer to range it. I counter argued its perfectly easy melee and faster. Anyway we preceded to melee it with no problems while the stubborn warrior sat at max range with a rifle. After that path, he raged calling us idiots for meleeing it and left the group. The other members shared their shock with his reaction and asked me to do another path with them.

Moral of the story is…. we have stubborn idiots in both camps. I think the whole problem stems from these guys(the said idiots). We are not dismissing the fact that zerk builds are more efficient or saying that all Zerk players strictly do speed runs (I know I have been trolling you guys, please forgive me).

We are trying to say that not all non zerk builds result in a kittene dungeon run and that not running a maximum efficiency is alright as long as the run goes smoothly (no wipes and reasonable time frame) but from the arguments I have seem on the forums the zerker camp won’t accept that. To them we should all be ashamed because we are not trying to shave a few seconds off a fight.

I ran a dungeon once with a team of 5 tanky Guardians, no one wiped. The bosses took a long time to kill but it was just so fun seeing all the baddies kill themselves against our perma-retaliation/reflect. Was it efficient, probably not, did everyone in the party enjoy it YES!!. Did the run go smoothly YES!!

Seetoo.9316:

Obtena.7952:

Seetoo.9316:

I’m saying that “IF (conditional statement, not absolute) you are good enough to NOT NEED the VT in PVT” then the only reasons you ARE wearing PVT are:
- you couldn’t be bothered to get a zerk set
- PVT is your preference

OR

… you are teaming with people you have to support better or carry more. Not everyone you pick up for team is running the zerkers (or capable of using it), therefore, you might not be able to either.

How are you supporting better with PVT?
Can you body block AoE’s?
Can you body block cleaves?
Can you body block a boss from reaching your party members?
Does the amount of reduction given by protection scale with how much toughness or vitality the caster has?

If support means giving your party boons (like prot, regen, and vigor) and heals (like healing breeze), then a guy in zerk will provide just as much support as the guy in PVT.

Baiting??

See bold above (that’s from you, not me). I asked how, and you never answered (or just ignored the question)

I wouldn’t think it would be that big a mystery for an experienced player to see the advantages of PVT while supporting a less skilled team over Zerkers, so yeah, I call baiting.

Seetoo.9316:

How are you supporting better with PVT?
Can you body block AoE’s?
Can you body block cleaves?
Can you body block a boss from reaching your party members?
Does the amount of reduction given by protection scale with how much toughness or vitality the caster has?

If support means giving your party boons (like prot, regen, and vigor) and heals (like healing breeze), then a guy in zerk will provide just as much support as the guy in PVT.

Except I did give examples of how I define support (boons and heals), ending with saying a guy in zerk will give the same support as the guy in pvt.

So I ask again (swapping out the word “support” for “boons and heals”). How are boons and heals from a guy in PVT better than boons and heals from a guy in zerk? The only supports that scale are regen and healing, and both sets don’t have healing power.

If you want really specific examples of “group support”
Casting VoC or Stand your Ground before Kholer pulls. My stats don’t matter here.
Casting Hold the Line on top of the hammer chain for protection when you have to face tank Spider Queen’s melee so she doesn’t drop poison fields. My stats don’t affect the amount of reduction protection gives.
Casting Wall of reflect for the harpy fractals. My stats don’t affect how long the wall lasts or how often I can cast it.

Will the people parading around the benefits of PVT ever switch to zerker gear in the future?

Considering how boring Berserker got for me, I doubt I’ll go back any time soon. But I don’t use PVT, I’m using Celestial armor with zerk accessories and clerics rings.

foofad.5162:

Considering how boring Berserker got for me, I doubt I’ll go back any time soon. But I don’t use PVT, I’m using Celestial armor with zerk accessories and clerics rings.

Why is it boring? You can do exactly what your doing with your celestial gear, but you have less useless stats? Healing power scales really badly (except on necro well of blood).

Threads like this are always amusing to read.

haviz.1340:

Threads like this are always amusing to read.

Its an endless debate and as much as I know I cant persuade people. I still enjoy telling them how wrong they are.

spoj.9672:

haviz.1340:

Threads like this are always amusing to read.

Its an endless debate and as much as I know I cant persuade people. I still enjoy telling them how wrong they are.

Maybe change a mind here and there in the audience, not usually the mind of a poster though. We posters tend to be fairly set in our ways.

Play what you want. Advertise any expectations up front. Be excellent to one another.

Llyren.3904:

Play what you want. Advertise any expectations up front. Be excellent to one another.

NO! If you are not playing zerk you are slowing everyone down and being very selfish for not paying any consideration to us by choosing selfish stats! How dare you not be considerate towards my precious time?

troll hat off

If only more people understood what you just said. The next argument is probably going to be “By not picking the best stats you are not being excellent towards me”

spoj.9672:

Healing power scales really badly (except on necro well of blood).

That quote right there shows just how LITTLE you understand.

Amins.3710:

spoj.9672:

Healing power scales really badly (except on necro well of blood).

That quote right there shows just how LITTLE you understand.

Oh please….

I probably should of said except on a few select abilties. Still, its a terrible stat for pve.

spoj.9672:

Amins.3710:

spoj.9672:

Healing power scales really badly (except on necro well of blood).

That quote right there shows just how LITTLE you understand.

I probably should of said its a terrible stat for pve.

I fixed your statement for you, just so you know the only fact in it.

Amins.3710:

spoj.9672:

Amins.3710:

spoj.9672:

Healing power scales really badly (except on necro well of blood).

That quote right there shows just how LITTLE you understand.

I probably should of said its a terrible stat for pve.

I fixed your statement for you, just so you know the only fact in it.

Wait, your agreeing with me and then saying I dont understand? What? It is a terrible stat but that doesnt change the fact that it actually makes certain abilities heal for alot. I would never support a build doing that, but it doesnt change that it can.

spoj.9672:

Amins.3710:

spoj.9672:

Amins.3710:

spoj.9672:

Healing power scales really badly (except on necro well of blood).

That quote right there shows just how LITTLE you understand.

I probably should of said its a terrible stat for pve.

I fixed your statement for you, just so you know the only fact in it.

Wait, your agreeing with me and then saying I dont understand? What? It is a terrible stat but that doesnt change the fact that it actually makes certain abilities heal for alot. I would never support a build doing that, but it doesnt change that it can.

No, I’m not agreeing w/ you.

You made a blanket statement about a stat, for which I wholeheartedly disagree.

I put your statement into Context.

I think its been mentioned before, If you’ve advertised a run at the beginning to be full zerk speed clear, then its perfectly fine to kick anyone who isn’t full zerk or interested in a speed clear. You’ve set your parameters and intentions clearly, and before the run, so everyone should be on the same page.

If you don’t advertise as such, don’t be surprised or resentful after the fact if the thief decides he wants to run in full wayfarer’s with a splash of sentinels. At that point, your group is just going for completion, and not for time. Its the kicking of people in this situation that I think is what is rubbing people the wrong way in these discussions.

Amins.3710:

No, I’m not agreeing w/ you.

You made a blanket statement about a stat, for which I wholeheartedly disagree.

I put your statement into Context.

You edited my post and said that my quote of “healing power is a terrible stat” is a fact. I think I just lost braincells trying to work out how you thought that was disagreeing with me.

spoj.9672:

Amins.3710:

spoj.9672:

Healing power scales really badly (except on necro well of blood).

That quote right there shows just how LITTLE you understand.

Oh please….

I probably should of said except on a few select abilties. Still, its a terrible stat for pve.

Clearly you need a lesson in Reading Comprehension.

You stated healing power Scales Horribly…. I disagreed.

Then you say, except on a few select abilities… I still disagree…

Then you state its terrible stat for PvE… I agreed.

…… I fixed your comment by putting context to it …….

Healing Power is a horrible stat for PvE ~ONLY~ because it’s not needed in PVE… which is where I agree w/ you. However, this thread isn’t just about PVE (though that is the majority of debate going on)…. IE OP’s Title.

If you’re going to start tellin people just how wrong they are, please do try to keep up.

Amins.3710:

spoj.9672:

Amins.3710:

spoj.9672:

Healing power scales really badly (except on necro well of blood).

That quote right there shows just how LITTLE you understand.

Oh please….

I probably should of said except on a few select abilties. Still, its a terrible stat for pve.

Clearly you need a lesson in Reading Comprehension.

You stated healing power Scales Horribly…. I disagreed.

Then you say, except on a few select abilities… I still disagree…

Then you state its terrible stat for PvE… I agreed.

…… I fixed your comment by putting context to it …….

Healing Power is a horrible stat for PvE ~ONLY~ because it’s not needed in PVE… which is where I agree w/ you. However, this thread isn’t just about PVE (though that is the majority of debate going on)…. IE OP’s Title.

If you’re going to start tellin people just how wrong they are, please do try to keep up.

Why dont you try to structure your posts a bit better then.

Healing power scaling is terrible. But that doesnt mean that you dont need it for some builds in spvp and WvW. You knew I was talking about pve so why pick holes? No need to be so pedantic about my comment. I was stating an opinion and you seem to have a problem with that.

Julie Yann.5379:

Too all of you arguing with the Elitists.

The Elite “wear zerk and nothing else or you are useless” people are a minority. Yes they play well, yes they are obsessed about saving a few minutes on a run, yes they are narrow minded and arrogant and no amount of discussion and debate will ever change their mindset. So why bother even trying to have an intelligent conversation with them? We suck, play bad, and are completely selfish cause we choose not to be like them, end of story. Just ignore their party requests on LFG, block them in Game chat when you meet them, kick them from your party when they joi, pretend they don’t exist and disregard whatever they say when you see them on the forums. ThenTyria becomes world of tolerance and acceptance towards all races and professions where everyone can have fun without being judged by arrogant narrow minded intolerant people.

A good chunk of people are just lying about running in a group full of zerkers.

Even though I hardly believe they are actually doing that, after all, many bosses on the few hard content we have has dots and aoe dmg that would chew them alive (I’m thinking on higher fractals, or the late Aetherblade Retreat final boss or event, to some extent, Arah).

Most arent even dungeon masters and run to an extention the same paths… or run dificult without knowing one of their team mates are support builds.

However, all this discussion does bring up something really important: Game is being dumbed down.

ok, we have some expectional hard content, but most became zerg and win.
Not only that, a zerker has the same support skills as a support build, wich makes it even more important to buff scalling from other stats.

Healing scaling, for example, is so bad that it is close to irrelevant.
Vit/Toughness while it does help, it doesnt make you a real tank, since most bosses will 3 shot you (instead of 2 shot you in zerker).

Other stats needs to be viable and bosses mechanics needs to punish a group that chooses to go all dps. Bosses should hit weaker, but more constantly, for example.

Zerker for trash or to some dps race boss is ok as a design. But currently, it’s zerker for the vast majority of content. And this shouldnt happen.
I remember back during launch when devs were saying that there are no trinity, but there would be CC/Support/Control roles.

spoj.9672:

foofad.5162:

Considering how boring Berserker got for me, I doubt I’ll go back any time soon. But I don’t use PVT, I’m using Celestial armor with zerk accessories and clerics rings.

Why is it boring? You can do exactly what your doing with your celestial gear, but you have less useless stats? Healing power scales really badly (except on necro well of blood).

Healing Power scales one for one on two of my heals, Selfless Daring and Empower. It also scales well on Orb of Light. I also use a lot of regeneration, and use a hammer which yields lots of water finishes. I’d say I get a lot of use out of it.

Instead of a full DPS scholar runed berserker where maybe the best I would do in terms of party synergy is Pure of Voice, and all I have to think about is hitting things and not getting hit, I’m constantly looking for the best times to apply heals and boons to my party as well. There’s another layer of engagement, and it’s more fun that way. Plus my damage is still adequate, and because I bring so much might to a team I don’t feel the slightest pang of remorse over it.

Also I don’t have to switch armor for WvW which is nice.

I’m a zerker guardian with scholar runes and i also bring might to my team, OH MY GOD THIS IS GAMEBREAKING.

No, really, healing power sucks in PvE. :/

spoj.9672:

Amins.3710:

No, I’m not agreeing w/ you.

You made a blanket statement about a stat, for which I wholeheartedly disagree.

I put your statement into Context.

You edited my post and said that my quote of “healing power is a terrible stat” is a fact. I think I just lost braincells trying to work out how you thought that was disagreeing with me.

My head hurts now.

spoj.9672:

Healing power scaling is terrible.

There you go again.

I disagree.

Oxxy.7068:

I’m a zerker guardian with scholar runes and i also bring might to my team, OH MY GOD THIS IS GAMEBREAKING.

No, really, healing power sucks in PvE. :/

Not like me, you don’t. You’ve got EM, right? 3-4 stacks at peak.

I have 12 stacks running permanently by myself just with staff. 100% might duration means you lose the stacks right as the cooldown comes up again. I also run hammer, which means 40 second fire blasts. Also, if I do run EM, it lasts twice as long, yielding 6-8 stacks on average. I can get a team to 12 might stacks at the beginning of a fight and work up to 25 by myself and keep them up indefinitely as long as there are things to kill. I also run Permeating Wrath, so my condition damage is now over a thousand, and I’m burning everything in the room as well as pulling the already above average AOE damage from the hammer. My AOE damage is a lot better than the typical sword/focus + greatsword DPS matchup.

And anyway, this isn’t an argument about what’s better. “Best” is only a priority for me in as much as I make the best possible build to suit my other goals, of which “fun to play” ranks highest. Healing Power isn’t strictly needed, because you can sleepwalk through most content with your traits shotgunned all over the board and it won’t matter. But green numbers are fun, and the only people that complain about them are the berserkers who are angry that I’m not running full berserker.

Amins.3710:

spoj.9672:

Healing power scaling is terrible.

There you go again.

I disagree.

I know, you dont need to repeat yourself. Especially when not giving any counter arguement.

swiftpaw.6397:

My head hurts now.

Mine too haha. Im probably being trolled but whatever.

Amins.3710:

spoj.9672:

Healing power scaling is terrible.

There you go again.

I disagree.

‘I disagree’ does not = correct.

spoj.9672:

swiftpaw.6397:

My head hurts now.

Mine too haha. Im probably being trolled but whatever.

It’s ok man we’ve all been there. Between Magic find advocates, people kittening about TA F/U being too hard and threads about getting kicked at the end of a dungeon… we’ve all had that moment where we go.. ‘wtf am I doing even arguing with this lot.’

spoj.9672:

Amins.3710:

spoj.9672:

Healing power scaling is terrible.

There you go again.

I disagree.

I know, you dont need to repeat yourself. Especially when not giving any counter arguement.

Please, tell me where in sPvP or WvW Healing Power < Zerker.

You can’t. Everyone Know’s you need to have it unless you’re fighting in small roaming groups out in WvW or you already have other solid Bunker’s for point control s/tPvP

The scaling is NOT bad in any fashion…. weither or not ~you~ need it for a ~specific encounter~ is the question at hand…. IE in PvE…. Different Story.

But you’re still making blanket statements about a stat which is just, wrong.

If you cannot understand this simple point… I don’t know what more to say to you other than… enjoy being wrong and I truly hope we meet on the field one day because I’ll trump your PvE Zerker Ideology w/ a solid thump to the head from my PvT/Celestial Build.

swiftpaw.6397:

‘wtf am I doing even arguing with this lot.’

Now you get it! There’s no argument, because you’re both coming at your playtime from a different angle entirely. Your priorities are different. What’s valid for you isn’t valid for them, and vice versa, and the important thing to remember is that neither of you are wrong. What’s a good choice for you may not be for someone else.

Is a blanket statement like.. something I can sleep under. It sounds so nice and warm and inviting. It’s used so often I almost forget it’s used in hostility. Blankets are so cuddly I want one now