Guild Wars 2

foofad.5162:

swiftpaw.6397:

‘wtf am I doing even arguing with this lot.’

Now you get it! There’s no argument, because you’re both coming at your playtime from a different angle entirely. Your priorities are different. What’s valid for you isn’t valid for them, and vice versa, and the important thing to remember is that neither of you are wrong. What’s a good choice for you may not be for someone else.

Watching people get flabbergasted when their precious ideas on pvt are knocked around is entertaining to me. That’s about the only reason I’m here. Right and wrong is only a perception. And people hate when their perception is different to someone else’s. They feel threatened.

foofad.5162:

Oxxy.7068:

I’m a zerker guardian with scholar runes and i also bring might to my team, OH MY GOD THIS IS GAMEBREAKING.

No, really, healing power sucks in PvE. :/

Not like me, you don’t. You’ve got EM, right? 3-4 stacks at peak.

I have 12 stacks running permanently by myself just with staff. 100% might duration means you lose the stacks right as the cooldown comes up again. I also run hammer, which means 40 second fire blasts. Also, if I do run EM, it lasts twice as long, yielding 6-8 stacks on average. I can get a team to 12 might stacks at the beginning of a fight and work up to 25 by myself and keep them up indefinitely as long as there are things to kill. I also run Permeating Wrath, so my condition damage is now over a thousand, and I’m burning everything in the room as well as pulling the already above average AOE damage from the hammer. My AOE damage is a lot better than the typical sword/focus + greatsword DPS matchup.

Actually, i run sword focus + staff, that means 15 stacks of might at the start of any boss fight, plus 5 out of EM fast enough to build up 20, assuming i have a warrior with me that spams for great justice thats 3 more, now i only need 2 stacks of might to get up to 25, all this while hitting 4.2k per auto. It is not like i NEED to be in cleric to stack boons, i do have a zerk setup with water, monk and major water runes for boon duration, but i rarely use it. Why? Because most of time anything dies before i could get any advantage from boon duration.
Edit: Ah, almost forgot, i only use my staff auto to tag things before farming or stacking bloodlust, there is no reason to use staff while clearing small waves of mobs or bosses (god, i hope you don’t camp staff on bosses).

Now, i understand where you want to go with priority, but to be totally honest with you… you’re just gimping yourself, which i shouldn’t care, i mean, if i ever group up with you we’ll just finish the dungeon and move on, nothing to see here, but what i don’t like is when people in PVT and clerics come to the forums to talk about pve and say “man forget about zerker jerks, use whatever you like, it doesn’t matters anyways” when it does, actually (i mean, that’s not directed at you since you’re pretty polite for what i can see, but that’s how it goes, usually).

swiftpaw.6397:

foofad.5162:

swiftpaw.6397:

‘wtf am I doing even arguing with this lot.’

Now you get it! There’s no argument, because you’re both coming at your playtime from a different angle entirely. Your priorities are different. What’s valid for you isn’t valid for them, and vice versa, and the important thing to remember is that neither of you are wrong. What’s a good choice for you may not be for someone else.

Watching people get flabbergasted when their precious ideas on pvt are knocked around is entertaining to me. That’s about the only reason I’m here. Right and wrong is only a perception. And people hate when their perception is different to someone else’s. They feel threatened.

Its good you finally recognize this, as that is the entire point both myself and Obtena are (and have been) making to all the “Zomg I’m kicking u cuz you don’t have Zerker gear on!!!! oMG U must be bad”, “supporters”…

Amins.3710:

swiftpaw.6397:

foofad.5162:

swiftpaw.6397:

‘wtf am I doing even arguing with this lot.’

Now you get it! There’s no argument, because you’re both coming at your playtime from a different angle entirely. Your priorities are different. What’s valid for you isn’t valid for them, and vice versa, and the important thing to remember is that neither of you are wrong. What’s a good choice for you may not be for someone else.

Watching people get flabbergasted when their precious ideas on pvt are knocked around is entertaining to me. That’s about the only reason I’m here. Right and wrong is only a perception. And people hate when their perception is different to someone else’s. They feel threatened.

Its good you finally recognize this, as that is the entire point both myself and Obtena are (and have been) making.

I’m not sure why I would finally recognize this. I’m pretty sure I knew it before I even commented on the thread. If you came to that recognition just now then kudos to you >_> although you are still calling people idiots, so maybe not :/

swiftpaw.6397:

Amins.3710:

swiftpaw.6397:

foofad.5162:

swiftpaw.6397:

‘wtf am I doing even arguing with this lot.’

Now you get it! There’s no argument, because you’re both coming at your playtime from a different angle entirely. Your priorities are different. What’s valid for you isn’t valid for them, and vice versa, and the important thing to remember is that neither of you are wrong. What’s a good choice for you may not be for someone else.

Watching people get flabbergasted when their precious ideas on pvt are knocked around is entertaining to me. That’s about the only reason I’m here. Right and wrong is only a perception. And people hate when their perception is different to someone else’s. They feel threatened.

Its good you finally recognize this, as that is the entire point both myself and Obtena are (and have been) making.

I’m not sure why I would finally recognize this. I’m pretty sure I knew it before I even commented on the thread. If you came to that recognition just now then kudos to you >_> although you are still calling people idiots, so maybe not :/

Because if you knew this and were actually paying attention, you would have recognize that we’re not getting flabbergasted about our “precious ideas on pvt”… but rather debunking the whole “zomg, zeker or kicked” mentality and you would have not made that comment.

If you’re going to chime in, at least read the thread.

Amins.3710:

swiftpaw.6397:

Amins.3710:

swiftpaw.6397:

foofad.5162:

swiftpaw.6397:

‘wtf am I doing even arguing with this lot.’

Now you get it! There’s no argument, because you’re both coming at your playtime from a different angle entirely. Your priorities are different. What’s valid for you isn’t valid for them, and vice versa, and the important thing to remember is that neither of you are wrong. What’s a good choice for you may not be for someone else.

Watching people get flabbergasted when their precious ideas on pvt are knocked around is entertaining to me. That’s about the only reason I’m here. Right and wrong is only a perception. And people hate when their perception is different to someone else’s. They feel threatened.

Its good you finally recognize this, as that is the entire point both myself and Obtena are (and have been) making.

I’m not sure why I would finally recognize this. I’m pretty sure I knew it before I even commented on the thread. If you came to that recognition just now then kudos to you >_> although you are still calling people idiots, so maybe not :/

Because if you knew this and were actually paying attention, you would have recognize that we’re not getting flabbergasted about our “precious ideas on pvt”… but rather debunking the whole “zomg, zeker or kicked” mentality and you would have not made that comment.

If you’re going to chime in, at least read the thread.

Calling people idiots, I’m pretty sure you are flabbergasted. I was not specifically referring to you in regards to pvt, but you sure are flabbergasted for other reasons. Name calling suggests you are emotionally involved. Not only this, but most of your comments are quite aggressive.

swiftpaw.6397:

Amins.3710:

swiftpaw.6397:

Amins.3710:

swiftpaw.6397:

foofad.5162:

swiftpaw.6397:

‘wtf am I doing even arguing with this lot.’

Now you get it! There’s no argument, because you’re both coming at your playtime from a different angle entirely. Your priorities are different. What’s valid for you isn’t valid for them, and vice versa, and the important thing to remember is that neither of you are wrong. What’s a good choice for you may not be for someone else.

Watching people get flabbergasted when their precious ideas on pvt are knocked around is entertaining to me. That’s about the only reason I’m here. Right and wrong is only a perception. And people hate when their perception is different to someone else’s. They feel threatened.

Its good you finally recognize this, as that is the entire point both myself and Obtena are (and have been) making.

I’m not sure why I would finally recognize this. I’m pretty sure I knew it before I even commented on the thread. If you came to that recognition just now then kudos to you >_> although you are still calling people idiots, so maybe not :/

Because if you knew this and were actually paying attention, you would have recognize that we’re not getting flabbergasted about our “precious ideas on pvt”… but rather debunking the whole “zomg, zeker or kicked” mentality and you would have not made that comment.

If you’re going to chime in, at least read the thread.

Calling people idiots, I’m pretty sure you are flabbergasted. I was not specifically referring to you in regards to pvt, but you sure are flabbergasted for other reasons. Name calling suggests you are emotionally involved. Not only this, but most of your comments are quite aggressive.

You’re still dodging the the point and reflecting w/ aggressive counters.

I’m confused, who’s flabbergasted?

Again, if you’re going to chime in, at least read the thread and understand the positions people are taking.

EDIT: If you knew anything about me, you’d know that I am a supporter of Guardian DPS (for which I was one of the firsts to vocalize it and start making video’s about it)… in given contexts.

Amins.3710:

swiftpaw.6397:

Amins.3710:

swiftpaw.6397:

Amins.3710:

swiftpaw.6397:

foofad.5162:

swiftpaw.6397:

‘wtf am I doing even arguing with this lot.’

Now you get it! There’s no argument, because you’re both coming at your playtime from a different angle entirely. Your priorities are different. What’s valid for you isn’t valid for them, and vice versa, and the important thing to remember is that neither of you are wrong. What’s a good choice for you may not be for someone else.

Watching people get flabbergasted when their precious ideas on pvt are knocked around is entertaining to me. That’s about the only reason I’m here. Right and wrong is only a perception. And people hate when their perception is different to someone else’s. They feel threatened.

Its good you finally recognize this, as that is the entire point both myself and Obtena are (and have been) making.

I’m not sure why I would finally recognize this. I’m pretty sure I knew it before I even commented on the thread. If you came to that recognition just now then kudos to you >_> although you are still calling people idiots, so maybe not :/

Because if you knew this and were actually paying attention, you would have recognize that we’re not getting flabbergasted about our “precious ideas on pvt”… but rather debunking the whole “zomg, zeker or kicked” mentality and you would have not made that comment.

If you’re going to chime in, at least read the thread.

Calling people idiots, I’m pretty sure you are flabbergasted. I was not specifically referring to you in regards to pvt, but you sure are flabbergasted for other reasons. Name calling suggests you are emotionally involved. Not only this, but most of your comments are quite aggressive.

You’re still dodging the the point and reflecting w/ aggressive counters.

I’m confused, who’s flabbergasted?

Again, if you’re going to chime in, at least read the thread.

I have read the thread. The difference between me and you is that I don’t really care for the outcome. I’m not emotionally involved. If you continue being aggressive, it takes all the credibility from anything that you say, which is probably why Spoj left the thread a while back as it’s not worth the time of day. I figured I’d be nice and let you know.

swiftpaw.6397:

Amins.3710:

swiftpaw.6397:

Amins.3710:

swiftpaw.6397:

Amins.3710:

swiftpaw.6397:

foofad.5162:

swiftpaw.6397:

‘wtf am I doing even arguing with this lot.’

Now you get it! There’s no argument, because you’re both coming at your playtime from a different angle entirely. Your priorities are different. What’s valid for you isn’t valid for them, and vice versa, and the important thing to remember is that neither of you are wrong. What’s a good choice for you may not be for someone else.

Watching people get flabbergasted when their precious ideas on pvt are knocked around is entertaining to me. That’s about the only reason I’m here. Right and wrong is only a perception. And people hate when their perception is different to someone else’s. They feel threatened.

Its good you finally recognize this, as that is the entire point both myself and Obtena are (and have been) making.

I’m not sure why I would finally recognize this. I’m pretty sure I knew it before I even commented on the thread. If you came to that recognition just now then kudos to you >_> although you are still calling people idiots, so maybe not :/

Because if you knew this and were actually paying attention, you would have recognize that we’re not getting flabbergasted about our “precious ideas on pvt”… but rather debunking the whole “zomg, zeker or kicked” mentality and you would have not made that comment.

If you’re going to chime in, at least read the thread.

Calling people idiots, I’m pretty sure you are flabbergasted. I was not specifically referring to you in regards to pvt, but you sure are flabbergasted for other reasons. Name calling suggests you are emotionally involved. Not only this, but most of your comments are quite aggressive.

You’re still dodging the the point and reflecting w/ aggressive counters.

I’m confused, who’s flabbergasted?

Again, if you’re going to chime in, at least read the thread.

I have read the thread. The difference between me and you is that I don’t really care for the outcome. I’m not emotionally involved. If you continue being aggressive, it takes all the credibility from anything that you say, which is probably why Spoj left the thread a while back as it’s not worth the time of day. I figured I’d be nice and let you know.

Clearly….

Oxxy.7068:

Actually, i run sword focus + staff, that means 15 stacks of might at the start of any boss fight, plus 5 out of EM fast enough to build up 20 … (snip)

That’s cool, except that it only helps you out at the beginning of the fight. When you have 100% might duration you can keep the 12 up from Empower through the entire thing, and if you hit a fire field every 7 seconds with Mighty Blow (7 because of AA rotation speed) you can get up to 17 stacks at a time from that alone. Yes, it takes time to build up – so it’s only really a huge contribution during boss fights and the like, but it does contribute. EM shores up the difference. So basically, the difference between what you do and what I do is that you can burst up might stacks in the beginning and I can burst up might stacks and sustain them, and the longer the fight, the more likely it is that there will be 25 stacks on everyone.

Oxxy.7068:

Now, i understand where you want to go with priority, but to be totally honest with you… you’re just gimping yourself, which i shouldn’t care, i mean, if i ever group up with you we’ll just finish the dungeon and move on, nothing to see here, but what i don’t like is when people in PVT and clerics come to the forums to talk about pve and say “man forget about zerker jerks, use whatever you like, it doesn’t matters anyways” when it does, actually (i mean, that’s not directed at you since you’re pretty polite for what i can see, but that’s how it goes, usually).

Again, this is where the priorities come into play. I am gimping myself from an objective, functionalist, utilitarian mindset: What I do is not the best damage for dungeons. It’s good damage – I made sure of that – in certain settings (specifically AOE), but it’s not the best.

And you’re right, running suboptimal damage does matter, in the sense that for some people shaving seconds or minutes off of runs is very important, and maybe even the most important factor… if that’s your priority.

It’s possible that they just don’t know the facts, but no one is going to come out and say PVT is better than Berserkers for dungeons. They’ll bring up mitigating factors – less time spent down, things like that, but no one is outright kidding themselves in terms of the difference in damage output between Berserkers and everything else. That’s common sense, and educating people on how to achieve the best damage is fine. But coming out swinging and saying that they’re bad players and should be ashamed of themselves for how selfish they’re being is both unhelpful and wrong.

So, if we assume they know the facts or we provide them with the facts so they can make their own judgements, then the only avenue left is that they’re doing what they’re doing because they think it’s fun. Morally, you can’t obligate a person to sacrifice their own enjoyment for everyone else’s in the group in an environment where, from the outset, it is understood that everyone’s time and effort is valued equally. There’s no case where saying “my time is worth more than your enjoyment” is correct in Guild Wars 2.

So, all of that is to say… It does matter, to you. That’s okay, and everyone on the other side should acknowledge that it’s okay, just as it’s okay for their priorities to be different. It’s not like you’re being forced to play with each other, although I think especially with pugging people should calm down and relax their standards a bit for the sake of the community. After all, the best way to convince someone isn’t to tell them, it’s to show them – maybe you’ll convert a few people by letting in some suboptimal builds. Or maybe you’ll see something you like in their setup.

Good thing this game doesn’t have:

1. DPS meters
2. Inspect feature
3. Gear Score

What it does have:

1. Human factor
2. Emotions

Figured I’d throw that out there

-game.6519:

Good thing this game doesn’t have:

1. DPS meters
2. Inspect feature
3. Gear Score

What it does have:

1. Human factor
2. Emotions

Figured I’d throw that out there

I figure its the exact opposite.

Though I’d label the human factor as the “peoples I can’t go to the pub with” factor.
The problem with emotions is that so many people think with them. They’re not so good for problem solving, and folks get more attached to their results.

The things you list as good thing this game doesn’t have, are only bad in the hands of people one thinks are being mean, and you can /report and /ignore them.

Crapgame.6519:

Good thing this game doesn’t have:

1. DPS meters
2. Inspect feature
3. Gear Score

What it does have:

1. Human factor
2. Emotions

Figured I’d throw that out there

Expansion coming up-

Guild wars 2: Game of feels.

That’s cool, except that it only helps you out at the beginning of the fight. When you have …. [stuff]

Except it doesn’t matter since bosses die in pretty much one rotation so those might stacks at the beginning of the fight persist through the entire thing. Good examples are Slave Driver, Searing Effigy, Evolved Destroyer. You burst them down so quickly that being able to repeatedly apply boons is irrelevant since your first group stacking of boons persists for the entire fight.

There are plenty of HP sponge bosses in the game where having persistent might is worthwhile. Nobody has killed Lupi in ten seconds yet. 40~ seconds yes, but not 10.

Lupi has been killed in 17.5 seconds where he was feedbacked so hard he skipped his third phase.

Fights don’t last long.

At that point there’s no reason to bring might to begin with because you’re just going to cheese the fight with projectile reflection. I don’t even think projectile reflection cares about the reflector’s damage stats, either, so you might as well just bring three or four naked mesmers.

That does actually sound fun.

Anyway, not gonna argue with it because that’s a structured party setting and not a pug, which is mostly what I’m talking about.

foofad.5162:

At that point there’s no reason to bring might to begin with because you’re just going to cheese the fight with projectile reflection. I don’t even think projectile reflection cares about the reflector’s damage stats, either, so you might as well just bring three or four naked mesmers.

Reflects scale off of Crit damage+crit chance, but not power (hence not Might). Modifiers which affect the Mesmers base damage also affect reflects, such as Force/Slaying sigil(s) etc.

As for the reason to take Might, well; there’s 4 other people in the party who aren’t Mesmers.

Tanky stats are like training wheels for people who are not comfortable with squishiness. Otherwise go full dps to be more useful.

That is all there is to it.

colesy.8490:

That’s cool, except that it only helps you out at the beginning of the fight. When you have …. [stuff]

Except it doesn’t matter since bosses die in pretty much one rotation so those might stacks at the beginning of the fight persist through the entire thing. Good examples are Slave Driver, Searing Effigy, Evolved Destroyer. You burst them down so quickly that being able to repeatedly apply boons is irrelevant since your first group stacking of boons persists for the entire fight.

Pretty much. I mean, the only bosses that actually takes long enough for you to kill are the underwater duo at HotW, and that’s because… well… underwater. Bjarl takes long but you can swap to staff and wait till he charges a pillar to stack might again (assuming your group ins’t just throwing spiky fruits on him, poor guy), same thing applies to CoF p3 boss, you can swap to staff and empower again when his invulnerability runs out, same thing goes to the snowy fractal guy… botton line is: every single long fight i can think of is long because of game imposed pauses in the middle of the fight, allowing the party to rebuff themselves between phases.

foofad.5162:

So, all of that is to say… It does matter, to you. That’s okay, and everyone on the other side should acknowledge that it’s okay, just as it’s okay for their priorities to be different. It’s not like you’re being forced to play with each other, although I think especially with pugging people should calm down and relax their standards a bit for the sake of the community. After all, the best way to convince someone isn’t to tell them, it’s to show them – maybe you’ll convert a few people by letting in some suboptimal builds. Or maybe you’ll see something you like in their setup.

It is not like i don’t pug, not all my friends are playing this game right now and we always have to pug one or two slots, usually i am pretty chill with pugs, there is no reason to trashtalk someone ingame because of his build of choice. I’m not the kind of guy that says “your gear suck and so do you”, i don’t even like to discuss builds with people i do not know ingame unless they ask about my opinion, but this is a forum, people come here to discuss strategies and get better (and troll, most likely troll), and i don’t get the argument “the heart wants what the heart wants” about PvE gear since PvE in this game is so straight foward it hurts.

PVE is easy. You can “win” (that is, complete the objective) without any trait points at all if you wanted to. People run COF naked. Which means that you can still have fun with it and play it your way rather than the fastest way if you want, and still be rewarded for your effort.

You’re clearly more interested in finishing dungeons the fastest, most efficient way possible. That’s fine. I assume you think that’s fun or that you at the very least enjoy the rewards enough to make it worthwhile. Some people just don’t care about the monetary rewards.

I don’t want a legendary because none of them particularly appeal to me. What’s left? I have almost full ascended stuff, a couple more guild missions and I’m done with that. I have exotic everything else, in more gear combinations than I care to admit (including several full sets of berserker armor with different runes). I don’t need to run dungeons as fast as possible. Having more money is nice in case I need to buy something expensive later on is nice I guess, but the update to champions has left me with plenty of cash for that really.

So now I run dungeons for fun, and try to do it in the way that’s most enjoyable for me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not directly opposed to a functional, speed-run mindset – like I said earlier I’m just bored with it. There’s no point for me. It’s not my priority. I’ve contributed tons to that community, and had my fair share of discussions about the objectively best way to do things, so it’s not like I’m just doing this willy nilly without considering the alternative. I haven’t run Altruistic Healing since November, if that means anything.

It’s just that the bitter vehemence with which people of both camps address each other is to me, frankly, the most absurd thing in the world. We’ve had six pages now of arguments back and forth that will never, ever apply to the other side because of priorities, not because of objective right and wrong, efficient versus inefficient. It is – and this is probably the harshest I’ll ever be, mind – completely inane. Neither side has gotten anywhere, because there is nowhere to get. All that’s required is a simple understanding that people are allowed to prioritize differently and come to conclusions that make the most sense for them and their playtime.

foofad.5162:

Oxxy.7068:

I’m a zerker guardian with scholar runes and i also bring might to my team, OH MY GOD THIS IS GAMEBREAKING.

No, really, healing power sucks in PvE. :/

Not like me, you don’t. You’ve got EM, right? 3-4 stacks at peak.

I have 12 stacks running permanently by myself just with staff. 100% might duration means you lose the stacks right as the cooldown comes up again. I also run hammer, which means 40 second fire blasts. Also, if I do run EM, it lasts twice as long, yielding 6-8 stacks on average. I can get a team to 12 might stacks at the beginning of a fight and work up to 25 by myself and keep them up indefinitely as long as there are things to kill. I also run Permeating Wrath, so my condition damage is now over a thousand, and I’m burning everything in the room as well as pulling the already above average AOE damage from the hammer. My AOE damage is a lot better than the typical sword/focus + greatsword DPS matchup.

And anyway, this isn’t an argument about what’s better. “Best” is only a priority for me in as much as I make the best possible build to suit my other goals, of which “fun to play” ranks highest. Healing Power isn’t strictly needed, because you can sleepwalk through most content with your traits shotgunned all over the board and it won’t matter. But green numbers are fun, and the only people that complain about them are the berserkers who are angry that I’m not running full berserker.

How exactly did this argument switch from Healing Power to might stacking? And you’re wrong about not bringing the might stacks like you, my hammer build takes full zerk, 2x monk, 2x water, 2x [insert might duration runes], with 10 in virtues, that’s 60% might duration which pushes EM to 8 seconds and other might sources higher also obviously, virtually permanent protection uptime, and I can still blast in fire fields for maximum stackage. Just because I take full berserker’s armor does not mean I can’t also take options for boon slinging also

Right. 60%. Which is less than a hundred.

foofad.5162:

Right. 60%. Which is less than a hundred.

I can easily trait 20 more points in virtues and eat some boon duration food to push it to 100%, what’s your point?

Also, it’s not like anyone’s taking boon duration as an armor stat, how exactly is zerker armor less viable at boon slinging than other armors, or whatever you’re wearing?

And then you’ll be me, with slightly different gear. I don’t know what your point is.

I never said it was less viable at boon slinging. Not once. My original comment was in response to a guy that was claiming that he could do just as well at sharing Might as I could, using scholar runes. Scholar runes. Which you don’t use. Ergo, there’s nothing to argue about.

foofad.5162:

And then you’ll be me, with slightly different gear. I don’t know what your point is.

I never said it was less viable at boon slinging. Not once. My original comment was in response to a guy that was claiming that he could do just as well at sharing Might as I could, using scholar runes. Scholar runes. Which you don’t use. Ergo, there’s nothing to argue about.

yes, my bad sorry about that. I didn’t see the scholar rune part and took your argument as a “Berserker’s armor can’t do x,y,z as well as blank.”

My advice would be to mi and match til you get the stats you want.

I run dungeons/fractals with a few soldier pieces like boots/glove/helm/backpiece, knights on torso/legs and my gs, and the rest of my stuff is pretty much zerker.

Gives me 3k+ atk and armor, 19k life with ~30% crit chance and 65% crit dmg so I can deal nice sustained dps and not drop instantly if say a champ in fractals manages to get a good hit on me.

Play to what suits you, and once youre good with that, branch out more if you want

foofad.5162:

And then you’ll be me, with slightly different gear. I don’t know what your point is.

I never said it was less viable at boon slinging. Not once. My original comment was in response to a guy that was claiming that he could do just as well at sharing Might as I could, using scholar runes. Scholar runes. Which you don’t use. Ergo, there’s nothing to argue about.

Nope, i said i could bring might to my team, not that i could bring perma might, after all, i don’t need to, because most bosses drops in one might rotation and might stacking is not an 100% single player role in a group.

Anyhow, about your previous reply, to be all honest with you i don’t give a ratass about rewards at this point, i’ve got a crapton of gear combos and i’m rocking ascended stuff as well…
Thing is, i have fun polishing both my gameplay and build to make it the most effective possible (in PvE effective means fast), and while i do know i’m the minority here i simply can’t stand when someone asks what is better (seriously, look at the OP) and then people jump in and implying that you can be just as effective as someone with zerk in shaman gear.

@Oxxy
Dont want to intrude in this but just to make things clear.

“the most effective possible (in PvE effective means fast)” this comment is brought forward as a universal truth and im sure i misunderstand you. Its your opinion/definition of whats effective in pve. To you time is the gauge by which you measure your effectiveness.

For other players that isnt the case and the game doesnt reward speed in the individual encounter as long its cleared. So speed isnt rewarded other than on a personal level and ofc if you grind for rewards, doing multiple dungeons.

I think the point is that other players do measure their effectiveness with a different set of key performance indicators.

For me enjoyable company and zero downed players are the most important KPI:s. Hence the numbers of dungeons i can do in a given timeframe is irrelevant.

@Foofad
10/25/10/25 or 10/0/030/30?

“(in PvE effective means fast),”

hehehehehe, giggle, snort.

Effective in a PuG means able to complete with almost anyone, including being able to communicate in actual words and sentences through text or voice, and train if needed.

Effective in a Set Group, or Speed Run means Fast….Zzzzooooom!!!!!

In a Guild group depends on the Guild’s priorities, but often a mix of training and Zzzzooomm.

But its harder to complete dungeons with low dps. I think its pretty safe to assume most people would agree with effective = fast in this situation. Even people who dont build that way.

I wonder what the OP thinks about this thread 0.o?

Did we answer his/her question?

Blasino.3128:

Did we answer his/her question?

Yes: dungeoneers are horrible people.

/sarcasm

I’ve seen this elitist “my way or the highway” mentality in too many MMO’s, and I’ve seen the inevitable outcome. Perhaps this scenario sounds familiar?

[8:05PM]Player1: lf1m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR OR GTFO!!!
[8:06PM]Player2: hey I want to do that dungeon, but I don’t have that specific gear…
[8:06PM]Player1: GTFO!!!
[8:17PM]Player1: lf1m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR OR GTFO!!!
[8:25PM]Player1: lf1m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, pst
[8:25PM]Player3: I’m down, invite pls
[8:26PM]Player1: do you have specific gear?
[8:26PM]Player3: no, but I know the run and have done it many times
[8:27PM]Player1: GTFO!!!
[8:45PM]Player1: lf2m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR!!!
[9:07PM]Player1: lf1m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR!!!
[9:53PM]Player1: lf3m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR!!!
[10:47PM]Player1: lf1m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR!!!
[11:27PM]Player1: (dungeon) run full, everyone who didn’t come is missing out on our amazing 5 minute run…suckers!

Yep, having specific gear sure saves a lot of time…

JobCreator.1956:

I’ve seen this elitist “my way or the highway” mentality in too many MMO’s, and I’ve seen the inevitable outcome. Perhaps this scenario sounds familiar?

[8:05PM]Player1: lf1m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR OR GTFO!!!
[8:06PM]Player2: hey I want to do that dungeon, but I don’t have that specific gear…
[8:06PM]Player1: GTFO!!!
[8:17PM]Player1: lf1m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR OR GTFO!!!
[8:25PM]Player1: lf1m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, pst
[8:25PM]Player3: I’m down, invite pls
[8:26PM]Player1: do you have specific gear?
[8:26PM]Player3: no, but I know the run and have done it many times
[8:27PM]Player1: GTFO!!!
[8:45PM]Player1: lf2m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR!!!
[9:07PM]Player1: lf1m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR!!!
[9:53PM]Player1: lf3m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR!!!
[10:47PM]Player1: lf1m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR!!!
[11:27PM]Player1: (dungeon) run full, everyone who didn’t come is missing out on our amazing 5 minute run…suckers!

Yep, having specific gear sure saves a lot of time…

well deserved lol

That guy was a noob, real pros use gw2lfg.com yo.

@Brutaly
Yeah i get that, but not dying is also a important point of… doing things fast. The thing most people is missing here is that for anyone to do a fast run it means you also have to do it smoothly.

I wish that enjoyable company had nothing to do with all this but… i left groups a couple times because of jerks when i started playing, so yeah, i will agree with that.

Lulz
#PVECasualProblems

JobCreator.1956:

I’ve seen this elitist “my way or the highway” mentality in too many MMO’s, and I’ve seen the inevitable outcome. Perhaps this scenario sounds familiar?

[8:05PM]Player1: lf1m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR OR GTFO!!!
[8:06PM]Player2: hey I want to do that dungeon, but I don’t have that specific gear…
[8:06PM]Player1: GTFO!!!
[8:17PM]Player1: lf1m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR OR GTFO!!!
[8:25PM]Player1: lf1m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, pst
[8:25PM]Player3: I’m down, invite pls
[8:26PM]Player1: do you have specific gear?
[8:26PM]Player3: no, but I know the run and have done it many times
[8:27PM]Player1: GTFO!!!
[8:45PM]Player1: lf2m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR!!!
[9:07PM]Player1: lf1m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR!!!
[9:53PM]Player1: lf3m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR!!!
[10:47PM]Player1: lf1m for (dungeon), 5 minute run, MUST HAVE SPECIFIC GEAR!!!
[11:27PM]Player1: (dungeon) run full, everyone who didn’t come is missing out on our amazing 5 minute run…suckers!

Yep, having specific gear sure saves a lot of time…

The best part is, people complain about this even though it doesn’t affect them. At least the person advertising had the courtesy to say what he wanted before starting the run. It’s your choice to join.

You aren’t inviting me to do things with you even though I probably wouldn’t want to do them because you strike me as an unpleasant person. The things that you like shouldn’t be allowed so that theoretical situations that never actually happen will never possibly happen because I don’t like it when people like things that I don’t like.

Or something.

Wait, which thread am I in?

Obtena.7952:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

And the best gear for every situation in PvE happens to be Berserker’s gear.

That’s a matter of opinion. The best gear (and traits, etc…) is dictated by who you run with in your team. Maybe FOR YOU, it’s the best, because you are so selective about your team mates gear and skill level. For others who aren’t, more support or front line contribution might be necessary.

No. The best gear is dictated by the game mechanics. And the game mechanics indicate that defensive stats are putting groups in a disadvantage. Since there are no designated healer or tank roles in gw2 dragging the fight out will only cause more people to get downed or die, lowering the already low dps caused by PVT or cleric gear or whatever other trash stat gear you are running, even more.

PVT is garbage, cleric is garbage. If you find these stats “fun” or “useful” or god forbid “best” then you can do everyone else a favour and state right upon joining a group “hi I use pvt gear” so that the ppl can either kick you right away or decide that they don’t mind the crutch.

Zerker stats are the absolute top in pve. There is ZERO difference in support that a guardian can provide while using PVT armor in comparison to zerker. And there is little to no use for anything else. If you are having trouble learning the boss tells and dodging then take knight’s armor with zerker trinkets and overtime you’ll probably switch to zerker like every other half-skilled half-brained player that actually doesn’t want to be the black sheep of the group and wants to help make runs better.

foofad.5162:

Considering how boring Berserker got for me, I doubt I’ll go back any time soon. But I don’t use PVT, I’m using Celestial armor with zerk accessories and clerics rings.

oh and how are you finding it? I have just lvl’d a guardian and was looking a PVT gear …. but the celestial gear has got me intrigued.

ATM i am running around either naked or with a mish mash of basic everythings including weapons . I need to do something fast

spoj.9672:

But its harder to complete dungeons with low dps. I think its pretty safe to assume most people would agree with effective = fast in this situation. Even people who dont build that way.

No, it is really not safe to assume that any of our views conform with the majority.

Forums are a tiny percentage of the players. Then we have the percentage that run dungeons, and the smaller group that regularly run dungeons, not to mention the number of players run off from dungeons because for them “X is too hard”, or “Y was mean”.

I have yet to run into a “hard to complete” dungeon that did not also have one or more players that refused or where unable to communicate in the same language in text or voice. I would not be surprised if others have, but I have yet to run into any.

Low DPS makes dungeons longer, not harder per se.

Then ofc, longer fights = larger window for mobs hitting you, added to the defensive stat not being able to actually mitigate dmg effectively = risk. Which with some dodging and active defense, makes glass cannons the best route. Not arguing about this.

But DPS just makes things easier or faster.
The encouters where the only strategy is “DPS down that dude” and everything else don’t work could be counted on one hand probably.

I know that the “full zerk everywhere or gtfo” is trendy on forums right now, but not everybody needs/want/can play that way.
I personally did few runs with a zerk group organized (no, i’m not talking about cof). Didn’t have much issues for the running itself – but kitten , almost fell asleep when the runs were for 99% of encouters “come stack here – pull – Los – cleave s*it down – move to next pull”.
Never again.

Zerk is the most effective gear for most of pve content? Yes.
Is it the only and single option that the world should accept? No.

Which doesn’t mean ppl shold run bad builds, mind you.
But “not full zerk” =/= bad build. (unless you’re min/maxing the cr*p out of a build. then running everything else zerk would cripple it, yes. Though, return to point “not everyone enjoy that”)
Well, most of ppl around here seems to think this tho, so i guess there is not much point of discussion….

AndrewSX.3794:

Low DPS makes dungeons longer, not harder per se.

Then ofc, longer fights = larger window for mobs hitting you, added to the defensive stat not being able to actually mitigate dmg effectively = risk. Which with some dodging and active defense, makes glass cannons the best route. Not arguing about this.

But DPS just makes things easier or faster.

You just contradicted yourself. Opposite of easier is harder.

Anyway as much as the tactics in efficient dungeon running are pretty much the same for each encounter they are not as boring as sitting at max range pew pewing for half an hour. Id rather be actively dodging and spamming blinds to help my group a survive a los pull while we burn it down than sitting faceroll ranging.

Also a thing to note, some los pulls go very badly with low dps groups or if a high dps group fails to properly cc or blind spam. Wouldnt say thats boring. Boring is sitting at the back auto attacking with no danger, I dont want to play afk wrongbow bear ranger. I want to get stuck in and be useful while doing damage. It also takes experience/skill to read the tells and dodge perfectly consistantly in some fights. Face tanking instead of dodging is boring ;p.

Lisa.6102:

foofad.5162:

Considering how boring Berserker got for me, I doubt I’ll go back any time soon. But I don’t use PVT, I’m using Celestial armor with zerk accessories and clerics rings.

oh and how are you finding it? I have just lvl’d a guardian and was looking a PVT gear …. but the celestial gear has got me intrigued.

ATM i am running around either naked or with a mish mash of basic everythings including weapons . I need to do something fast

Time gating sucks. You can only make one Charged Crystal per day, and it takes five to make the dang things. Very annoying. In terms of actually using it though, I’m enjoying it very much, and it’s used in one of my favorite builds.

XRay.1920:

Zerker stats are the absolute top in pve.

Sigh. Nothing like coming in on page 6, reading one post and thinking your on top of things Ay?

foofad.5162:

Lisa.6102:

foofad.5162:

Considering how boring Berserker got for me, I doubt I’ll go back any time soon. But I don’t use PVT, I’m using Celestial armor with zerk accessories and clerics rings.

oh and how are you finding it? I have just lvl’d a guardian and was looking a PVT gear …. but the celestial gear has got me intrigued.

ATM i am running around either naked or with a mish mash of basic everythings including weapons . I need to do something fast

Time gating sucks. You can only make one Charged Crystal per day, and it takes five to make the dang things. Very annoying. In terms of actually using it though, I’m enjoying it very much, and it’s used in one of my favorite builds.

oh I have like about 28 charged crystals saved up I will have a look at when I get home,

Well, I’m looking at around 33 more days to make a set (armor and trinks). I’m waiting cuz of a rumor that the MF will be replaced with boon duration.

Seetoo.9316:

Well, I’m looking at around 33 more days to make a set (armor and trinks). I’m waiting cuz of a rumor that the MF will be replaced with boon duration.

Guildie did some theory crafting on Celestial armor. It’s not worth it to use anything but Helm/chest/legs as Celestial, although I wouldn’t go further than Celestial accessories for any reason. Even then, only for WvW. Exceptionally unnecessary in PvE.