Guild Wars 2

Saiyan.1704:

If you choose Guardian because you think you’ll do more healing than class A B C… .. Then you misunderstood what the Guardian is.

We prevent X amount of damage while, as a bonus, also aiding in damage output.
We’ll still grab that sword and enter battle by your side… better yet… we’ll be front line!!!

We Are Not not going to put a bandaid on you and say that things are going to be better – The Druid

- If people are looking for a Healer Class, Druid is your calling.

- If people are looking for a class that’ll offer “support” while also deal damage, Guardian or Dragonhunter is your calling. It isn’t hard to wrap your head around – Guardian isn’t the ‘Kings of Support!’ class.

I have no issues with another profession offering more heal than I do. However, I DO have issues with a class mitigating more damages then me!

My problem isn’t necessarily that other classes can do healing better than we can. It’s that despite that we still have half of our loadout dedicated to weak allied heals on high cooldowns.

If they don’t want Guardians to be masters of healing, then fine. If that’s the case though, then get rid of useless allied heals that aren’t worthwhile such as Merciful Intervention, Sanctuary, Bow of Truth, Signet of Mercy, Faithful Strike (the mace autoattack heal), Orb of Light and Empower on staff, Shield of Absorption on shield, Virtue of Resolve active (without Absolute Resolution), Zealous Blade, Battle Presence, etc. If we’re not meant to be able to spec for our allied healing, then give us new abilities with our skills that we can put to better use. Or, at the very least, they need to make these skills actually scale significantly with healing power, so that people who do want to run healer builds on their Guardian can do so and actually be effective at it.

Our class has too many skills and traits that were nerfed for fear of power creep long ago that haven’t been adjusted to match a changing meta. Given the number of skills we have that are dedicated to healing allies, it just doesn’t make sense for Anet to be introducing other classes and specs that can be really good at healing allies while still leaving us with so many skills that will continue to be unused because of how completely obsolete they are.

Black Box.9312:

Our class has too many skills and traits that were nerfed for fear of power creep long ago that haven’t been adjusted to match a changing meta. Given the number of skills we have that are dedicated to healing allies, it just doesn’t make sense for Anet to be introducing other classes and specs that can be really good at healing allies while still leaving us with so many skills that will continue to be unused because of how completely obsolete they are.

This. People should stop pretending that having the option to be decent at healing wasn’t intended for guardians.

Thoses allied heals are not useless !

Since the rework of traits, the new Force Of Will etc, you can now heal a lot with the good build. Pure of heart in nomad or cleric heal for 1k7 , and the 3 of mace proc aegis with communal defenses. You can do a 2k heal per second, and 20k in burst heal (staff empower + merciful interv or heal shout + one dodge or two for example).

I made two video of this, if you want to see it just tell me =)

Also work in SPvP: i healed lord and allies for 500k value, in the end of game.

Saiyan.1704:

If you choose Guardian because you think you’ll do more healing than class A B C… .. Then you misunderstood what the Guardian is.

We prevent X amount of damage while, as a bonus, also aiding in damage output.
We’ll still grab that sword and enter battle by your side… better yet… we’ll be front line!!!

We Are Not not going to put a bandaid on you and say that things are going to be better – The Druid

- If people are looking for a Healer Class, Druid is your calling.

- If people are looking for a class that’ll offer “support” while also deal damage, Guardian or Dragonhunter is your calling. It isn’t hard to wrap your head around – Guardian isn’t the ‘Kings of Support!’ class.

I have no issues with another profession offering more heal than I do. However, I DO have issues with a class mitigating more damages then me!

Guardians are both the spiritual successor to the Monk class, which was removed from GW2 because they didn’t want dedicated healers, and the literal inheritor of Monk magic in the game’s lore. The ankh symbol of healing magic is plastered all over the class’s icons as well as two of the three pieces of starting armor for the class. Yes, Guardians are focused more in-game on protection and support while dealing damage, but if you try to tell me that any other class should have been first in line for a dedicated healing specialization, I really don’t think you understand what a Guardian is.

Saiyan.1704:

If you choose Guardian because you think you’ll do more healing than class A B C… .. Then you misunderstood what the Guardian is.

We prevent X amount of damage while, as a bonus, also aiding in damage output.
We’ll still grab that sword and enter battle by your side… better yet… we’ll be front line!!!

We Are Not not going to put a bandaid on you and say that things are going to be better – The Druid

- If people are looking for a Healer Class, Druid is your calling.

- If people are looking for a class that’ll offer “support” while also deal damage, Guardian or Dragonhunter is your calling. It isn’t hard to wrap your head around – Guardian isn’t the ‘Kings of Support!’ class.

I have no issues with another profession offering more heal than I do. However, I DO have issues with a class mitigating more damages then me!

Trying to justify why guaridans elite should not resemble Druids is beyond idiocracy. As people have mentioned guardian has certain lore to it and skills that are meant directly for healing. Yet they bring out a healer elite spec on another class? Why?

It’s like giving guardians a juggernaut elite and then giving warriors a hesl specialization. Makes no sense at all.

lilz shorty.1879:

Saiyan.1704:

If you choose Guardian because you think you’ll do more healing than class A B C… .. Then you misunderstood what the Guardian is.

We prevent X amount of damage while, as a bonus, also aiding in damage output.
We’ll still grab that sword and enter battle by your side… better yet… we’ll be front line!!!

We Are Not not going to put a bandaid on you and say that things are going to be better – The Druid

- If people are looking for a Healer Class, Druid is your calling.

- If people are looking for a class that’ll offer “support” while also deal damage, Guardian or Dragonhunter is your calling. It isn’t hard to wrap your head around – Guardian isn’t the ‘Kings of Support!’ class.

I have no issues with another profession offering more heal than I do. However, I DO have issues with a class mitigating more damages then me!

Trying to justify why guaridans elite should not resemble Druids is beyond idiocracy. As people have mentioned guardian has certain lore to it and skills that are meant directly for healing. Yet they bring out a healer elite spec on another class? Why?

It’s like giving guardians a juggernaut elite and then giving warriors a hesl specialization. Makes no sense at all.

The lore that Guardians follow is not determined by players; that is solely Anet’s playground. There is nothing indicating an elite healer spec should belong to Guardians or not belong to Rangers or any other class. Anet determines what is appropriate as an elite spec and why. In fact, Anet has already answered you question Why we weren’t the recipient of a strong healing spec:

They already told us that these elite specs are something that strays from the current classes in terms of gameplay. Therefore, it makes MUCH sense that Guardians aren’t getting THE healing elite spec that people normally associate with a paladin-like class.

Well actually Dragonhunter fits to guardian guardian lore coz it’s pretty sure Eir is dead and Braham is going to take his longbow. After this it’s Braham who is going to teach you the spec. It’s the only reason for dragonhunter i think.

Dragonhunter would need to heal on every damaging skill it uses, be it bow or trap, to even begin to compete with the Druid. Druid is too strong for a backline support and will get nerfed, but I doubt Dragonhunters will come out on top. They’re really the final nail in the coffin after Herald and Scrapper being far more durable and supporty, while nearly anything will out dps a Dragonhunter.

All that leaves is crowd control. For a specialisation with a longbow and traps, I’d have thought we’d be good in that respect. Nope. Traps don’t fit the class, at all.

I will be speccing Dragonhunter. I need the longbow – it’s what I’ve wanted since my first beta weekend (of the game, not the expansion)! However, I’ve had to sacrifice an entire traitline while testing this. I enjoy support guardian (I know, feel free to shoot me) and the longbow itself gives me a solid backline weapon with some decent crowd control and projectile destruction; I’m happy with this part. However, I get a bunch of traps I’ll never touch and I lose a whole line of traits that synergise perfectly with the rest of the core profession… for a bunch of stuff I’d rather not have slotted!

The minors? Unlocking the new stuff feels wasted. Virtue of Resolve becomes weaker. Traps are useless. Blocking an attack buffs justice? It’d be a nice choice, but forced… it doesn’t work. Bonus damage, range… traps are melee and most guardian weapons are melee… dead weight. The adept traits are all pretty bad: stun, damage and an immobilise. Master traits offer a bit more, but when compared to other professions… they don’t hold a candle. As for the grandmasters… Heavy Light is still a huge issue. If slotted, the player can’t choose when the knockback happens. We’ve all played this game, we’ve all had that longbow Ranger use a knockback when it’s not needed. Please give us some control over this.

Anywho, Dragonhunter just doesn’t compare to any of the other elite specialisations (apart from Tempest, but it doesn’t compare to a vanilla Elementalist). It lacks synergy with the core profession and the Guardian will offer less than other professions in every single role.

/rant

P.S. Dragonhunter is still a bad name. I know it won’t be changed, but we have Guardians running around with a silly name, with unwanted skills, unable to do what the name suggests with the skillset they’ve just been given!

Greek.4396:

Druid = REAL backline support

Dragon Hunter was all but an illusion

Sponsored by The Official Mesmer Forum Guild

~Shattering Hopes and Dreams since 2013~

/joke on
We are Karlified !!!!!!
/joke off
Everything is lost ;-)

lilz shorty.1879:

Trying to justify why guaridans elite should not resemble Druids is beyond idiocracy. As people have mentioned guardian has certain lore to it and skills that are meant directly for healing. Yet they bring out a healer elite spec on another class? Why?

And on a ranger of all things.
Having the ultimate support ability stolen from guardians and given to rangers makes me sick.

Obtena.7952:

The lore that Guardians follow is not determined by players; that is solely Anet’s playground. There is nothing indicating an elite healer spec should belong to Guardians or not belong to Rangers or any other class.

Actually, there is. As has been stated many time through this thread, guardians are the spiritual successors of monks. Rangers are a mainly martial profession that have never been known for being healers at all. ANet can make up any lore they want, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t going to be gaping holes in the lore they make and use.

Obtena.7952:

They already told us that these elite specs are something that strays from the current classes in terms of gameplay. Therefore, it makes MUCH sense that Guardians aren’t getting THE healing elite spec that people normally associate with a paladin-like class.

What elite specializations offer is supposed to be different but still similar in some ways. This can be seen with (for example) reapers, who still focus on things like debuffing but do it in a different way and in a more specific way (melee with a focus on chill). Dragonhunters are just flat-out trying their kitten hardest to be rangers, and druids are monks who are forced to have ranger as a secondary profession (and whom blatantly stole most of Tome of Courage).

Fashion Mage.3712:

Raven.9603:

Mostly a Ranger here. If I could give you Celestial Avatar (its yours thematically) I would in a heart beat.

Guardians signed up to be guardians. Rangers signed up to be rangers. Now look at us

Exactly what I thought, because obviously guardians would like playing ranger-wannabes while rangers love playing guardian-wannabes. ANet’s typical inscrutable logic.

I find it a bit ironic too. It’s like if Irenio and Karl conspired to do a role change between their professions, except that the former came up with a conceptually awesome elite spec, and the latter’s creative juices just weren’t flowing.

But it’s not just Guardian. Maybe except for Daredevil (which, I must add, still has lackluster/glitchy animations), Karl’s elite specs look really bland and boring compared to the others.

Guess there is a reason why Druid Staff attacks are supposed to be Solar but blue instead of white’yellow/golden, maybe it was intended to be a Guardian thing and they decided to switch in early conception?

Arnath.2319:

Druid is insanely over powered and will be mandatory in all game modes

okay

Sunshine.4680:

Guess there is a reason why Druid Staff attacks are supposed to be Solar but blue instead of white’yellow/golden, maybe it was intended to be a Guardian thing and they decided to switch in early conception?

Coincidentally, the old leaked longbow had a skill which could knockback or pull people depending on the stance of the longbow. Glyph of Tides does pretty much exactly the same thing.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Obtena.7952:

The lore that Guardians follow is not determined by players; that is solely Anet’s playground. There is nothing indicating an elite healer spec should belong to Guardians or not belong to Rangers or any other class.

Actually, there is. As has been stated many time through this thread, guardians are the spiritual successors of monks. Rangers are a mainly martial profession that have never been known for being healers at all. ANet can make up any lore they want, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t going to be gaping holes in the lore they make and use.

Is that what Anet thinks, or what players decide makes sense to them? Again, Anet determines and owns the concept of the class. What players decide/interpret/think has likely little to no influence on this. The only problem here is that players aren’t aligning what they think the class concept should to the class concept that Anet has created.

Obtena.7952:

Is that what Anet thinks, or what players decide makes sense to them? Again, Anet determines and owns the concept of the class. What players decide/interpret/think has likely little to no influence on this. The only problem here is that players aren’t aligning what they think the class concept should to the class concept that Anet has created.

They literally use monk magic. To quote someone commenting on guardian magic: "It’s a pile of Elonian protection magic, mixed with a little monk training, wrapped up in some crazy ritualist hoo-ha from Cantha. A real grab bag of “you can’t hurt me”. They’re called guardians, and simply put, they mean trouble". Not to mention the rather large number of skills/traits named after or referencing monk prayers: Shield of Absorption, Shield of Judgment, Ray of Judgment, Smite Condition, Judge’s Intervention, Contemplation of Purity, Smite, Save Yourselves used to be called Martyr, Healing Breeze/Receive the Light, Symbol of Wrath, Banish, Smiter’s Boon, Heal Area/Protective Spirit/Pacifism/Light of Deliverance from Tome of Courage, Zealot’s Fire, Monk’s Focus, Bane Signet, Signet of Judgment, and whatever else I missed. How the hell could anybody not see the connection guardians have with monks? I’m sure even you and your persistent whiteknight-ing can’t deny it, especially since ANet doesn’t deny the relation monks and guardians have. They’ve done nothing but enforce it lore-wise. I can’t comment on druids since the lore on them is so vague, but gameplay-wise rangers have never had anything to do with healing since Guild Wars 1 (outside Healing Spring) right up until now.

I hear a lot of crying about the awkward and OP tomes…Which most of you skipped all the time while using nothing but Renewed Focus and crying about how you don’t have any better Elites.

So the devs took them away and gave you a frankly outstanding shout and a signet that can literally heal everyone alive near you to 100% while adding to your existing passive healing.

You can throw around Aegis and retaliation nearly all day. You can condition cleanse and give stability. You can trait to mak your sigils heal allies and burn enemies, and you get a lot of sigils. Not only that, but you’ve got good projectile protection.

Dragon Hunter gives Guadians multiple ways to be better at the same things they were already good at. More deflection, the change to perma and cripple enemies in melee when things get nasty and the party needs a second to recover. More damage. A gap closer that also heals in AoE so you can reinforce someone about to die and ninja bounce between ranges.

Oh, and you still have all your stuff from before that made you so survivable in melee, otherwise known as the place to be when you want to drop traps and make them fire off instantly.

Is DH going to give you something to make you a special unicorn? You were already the special unicorn. You’re taking the waambukance to the boo hoo train because other classes are catching up.

If your kitten is really that painful, just use Signet of Courage.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Obtena.7952:

Is that what Anet thinks, or what players decide makes sense to them? Again, Anet determines and owns the concept of the class. What players decide/interpret/think has likely little to no influence on this. The only problem here is that players aren’t aligning what they think the class concept should to the class concept that Anet has created.

How the hell could anybody not see the connection guardians have with monks?

I don’t see how it’s relevant. Is that the connections and lore that Anet are using to create DH? I don’t think so. Does that lore exclude Rangers from having Druid? I don’t think so either.

Anet creates the lore and concepts they want; why should they be restricted to conform to something outside of GW2, even if it’s GW1?

Anyways, it’s clear you’re using a specific version of lore that doesn’t coincide with what Anet is using for the concept of the classes they design, so the discussion about how Druid relates to Guardians really doesn’t mean much. Just have to shrug your shoulders if people are hinging the demise of the Guardian/DH on technicalities of lore. It’s weak.

Obtena.7952:

Fashion Mage.3712:

Obtena.7952:

Is that what Anet thinks, or what players decide makes sense to them? Again, Anet determines and owns the concept of the class. What players decide/interpret/think has likely little to no influence on this. The only problem here is that players aren’t aligning what they think the class concept should to the class concept that Anet has created.

How the hell could anybody not see the connection guardians have with monks?

I don’t see how it’s relevant. Is that the connections and lore that Anet are using to create DH? I don’t think so. Does that lore exclude Rangers from having Druid? I don’t think so either.

Anet creates the lore and concepts they want; why should they be restricted to conform to something outside of GW2?

As another thread recently pointed out, the wings, spear, and shield you get in Dragonhunter are very reminiscent of the Paragon class, and considering HoT is going into the site of Nightfall, I think it’s really a nice touch.

And while Anet can tweak lore, some of it, as ancient superstition (e.g. Bloodstone being stones with stored magic the dragons eient eat rather than the source of all magic, and the original four schools of magic now seen as ancient superstition), I can’t think of an outright retcon like WoW has done in the past.

As for Druids? To me they seem like Melandru’s answer to Guardians being all angelic and Dwayna-y, or Necros and their obvious connection to Grenth’s (at least for the Six).

Obtena.7952:

Is that what Anet thinks, or what players decide makes sense to them? Again, Anet determines and owns the concept of the class. What players decide/interpret/think has likely little to no influence on this.

I disagree here.
Guardian threads asking for Dps used to be common untill we got meditations buffed.
Guardian threads asking for a better long-range weapon were also common… Dragonhunter.

Very little noise has ever been made about our lackluster healing. consequentially, it’s gone through 3 years of “in a good place” backsliding through power creep.

Obtena.7952:

Anyways, it’s clear you’re using a specific version of lore that doesn’t coincide with what Anet is using for the concept of the classes they design, so the discussion about how Druid relates to Guardians really doesn’t mean much. Just have to shrug your shoulders if people are hinging the demise of the Guardian/DH on technicalities of lore. It’s weak.

Lol, when I use lore that you don’t like or that puts holes through ANet’s BS then it’s “using a specific version of lore” that doesn’t coincide with what ANet is doing. I’ll leave you alone to your white-knighting and delusion.

Mercurias.1826:

So the devs took them away and gave you a frankly outstanding shout and a signet that can literally heal everyone alive near you to 100% while adding to your existing passive healing.

Tome of Courage already could heal everyone around the user to 100%. I don’t want overpowered abilities, I want interesting ones. Signet of Courage will never be as interesting and fun as Tome of Courage, and I can definitely say it’s not as good as Tome of Courage either.

Mercurias.1826:

You can throw around Aegis and retaliation nearly all day. You can condition cleanse and give stability. You can trait to mak your sigils heal allies and burn enemies, and you get a lot of sigils. Not only that, but you’ve got good projectile protection.

Engis and mesmers are capable of doing most of the things you’ve listed. Also don’t bring symbols into a comparison between what guardians can do and what other classes can’t.

Mercurias.1826:

Oh, and you still have all your stuff from before that made you so survivable in melee, otherwise known as the place to be when you want to drop traps and make them fire off instantly.

A big part of what makes guardians have nice survivability in melee are meditations and instant virtues. Do you know which slot meditations take up? Do you know which slot traps take up? That’s right, utilities. I’m assuming you’re not talking about bunker guardians, because no sane bunker guardian would ever take DH.

Honestly it doesn’t really sound like you know much about guardians and I’m assuming you’re just QQing because you dislike playing against them.

LetoII.3782:

Obtena.7952:

Is that what Anet thinks, or what players decide makes sense to them? Again, Anet determines and owns the concept of the class. What players decide/interpret/think has likely little to no influence on this.

I disagree here.
Guardian threads asking for Dps used to be common untill we got meditations buffed.
Guardian threads asking for a better long-range weapon were also common… Dragonhunter.

Very little noise has ever been made about our lackluster healing. consequentially, it’s gone through 3 years of “in a good place” backsliding through power creep.

Don’t confuse the difference between feedback concerning the concept of the class and the design of the class. You are referring to elements of design and the value of player feedback has much more influence and value than it does for the concept.

For example; the concept of the DH is things like “it has traps, uses LB and is broadly conceived as a hunter”. The design are things like ‘this trap cripples’ and ‘this trait gives bonus to damage’. Very different levels of realization.

Design follows concept. People wanting to get rid of traps, for example, don’t understand how that’s less likely to happen than simply addressing elements of the traps themselves.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Lol, when I use lore that you don’t like or that puts holes through ANet’s BS then it’s “using a specific version of lore” that doesn’t coincide with what ANet is doing. I’ll leave you alone to your white-knighting and delusion.

You don’t see that you’re using lore outside of GW2 to justify whatever you think something should be. In fact, you can justify ANYTHING if you want to do that, which is why it’s a weak argument to use it to request change. The lore IN GW2 is what Anet wants it to be, not what you think it should because this thing you experienced in GW1. Some of us are not bound by that restriction … I never played GW1. If a particular experience drives what the concept should be, then it makes sense it’s Anet’s, not players.

Nike.2631:

You really should never be seeing classes called out specifically in an LFG.

“LF good reflect” maybe. But classes by name? Why?

Are you kidding me?
What about: LF metazerk ele or OS guard or thief or ps war. People are constantly looking for specific classes. Druid gets added to that list (guard, os war, thief, ele) and everyone loses their mind. People have to let it sink in before screaming fire and murder.

Druid has no party-wide:

Might
Quickness
Stability
Protection
Aegis
Long duration Reflection

These are what Guardians have.

Why afraid losing to Druid, which would ONLY be useful in raid and nothing else?
Offensive and Defensive buffs are much more important than healing in 95% of the game contents.

Aomine.5012:

Why afraid losing to Druid, which would ONLY be useful in raid and nothing else?

It’s not that people are afraid. It’s more like they think they can use ‘DRUID’ as a reason to complain about Guardians/DH to get things changed, hopefully the way they want it. A very unrealistic and obvious ruse. There is actually no reason to bring up tools from class A to discuss improvements to class B. They are independent of each other.

Mercurias.1826:

Dragon Hunter gives Guadians multiple ways to be better at the same things they were already good at.

Name 2 things that Dragonhunter has that improve the base class enough to sacrifice an existing traitline.

Good luck. You’re gonna need it.

Aomine.5012:

Druid has no party-wide:

Might
Quickness
Stability
Protection
Aegis
Long duration Reflection

These are what Guardians have.

Why afraid losing to Druid, which would ONLY be useful in raid and nothing else?
Offensive and Defensive buffs are much more important than healing in 95% of the game contents.

Choosing DH you have no party-wide:

Might
Quickness
Protection
Fury
Regen
Resistance
Retaliation
Swiftness
Vigor

…

If you choose Dh actually you lose 33% Guardian usefulness .

Black Box.9312:

Mercurias.1826:

Dragon Hunter gives Guadians multiple ways to be better at the same things they were already good at.

Name 2 things that Dragonhunter has that improve the base class enough to sacrifice an existing traitline.

Good luck. You’re gonna need it.

The ability to do damage at 1200 range without the target just walking sideways out of it would have to be one…

A second heal skill on F2 seems like a good candidate for number two.

The new fortification trait in conjunction with aegis-o-rama on Fragments of Faith wont’ suck.

There will be people who leverage what it gives and people who will bemoan its not a straight upgrade to what we have now. You’ve made it abundantly clear which group you’re in.

Jackums.3496:

Guardian possesses vastly superior AoE boon support, which is infinitely more valuable than healing in most game modes where focused healing isn’t needed or good.

That said, I don’t know where this mass delusion has come from amongst the Ele and Guardian players who think “their role” has been stolen. Neither class was ever a healer, and neither class does or should own such a role.

And apparently you think rangers should have that role, for some reason. Guardians can spec to be healers in PvP, eles can spec to be healers in WvW, and they can both spec to be healers in PvE (except it’s currently unneeded there). Tempests also further reinforce that eles can be healers.

I couldn’t really care less if healing is valuable or not in most areas of the game. The two closest things to dedicated healers in the game pre-expansion are elementalists and guardians, and thinking that a dedicated healer spec is more fitting on a ranger is completely ridiculous. The fact that druids stole Tome of Courage from guardians really says something.

Nike.2631:

There will be people who leverage what it gives and people who will bemoan its not a straight upgrade to what we have now. You’ve made it abundantly clear which group you’re in.

Well, enjoy your boring trash spec, I guess. I’ll continue to enjoy the base profession as well as chronomancers and druids.

Aomine.5012:

Druid has no party-wide:

Might
Quickness
Stability
Protection
Aegis
Long duration Reflection

These are what Guardians have.

Why afraid losing to Druid, which would ONLY be useful in raid and nothing else?
Offensive and Defensive buffs are much more important than healing in 95% of the game contents.

How do you people know that the game will not change in a way where heals will be more important than protection and aegis?

You base your whole “logic” on the game as it is at the moment. A game where zerker meta rules everything, and you simply have to avoid damage. They said various times that will not be the case in HoT.

Now, I’m not saying the druid will or will not replace guardian. I hope every class will be viable or else its not healthy for the game.

My hopes are that there would be more classes able to fill the current guardian’s role, without that meaning guardians won’t be able to do it as well. I think that’s what they try to acomplish in the first place.

For instance, Guard can offer protection, aegis quickness and team might. Druid can offer much more healing and AoE controll to make up for the lack of protection and aegis, and spotter/frost spirit/Glyph of empowerment to make up for the lack of team might and quickness.

Same could go for lets say ventari, mesmer/chrono etc etc…

Greek.4396:

What drives me crazy is Druid’s Celestial form.

That literally could of been a rework of the Guardian’s support tombs. I would of loved if Dragon Hunter offered that in addition with our virtues but sadly that is not the case.

This. I can not agree more. When I seen the druid go into that Celestial form all I could think of is wtf.. that is what my Guardian was suppose to do.

I liked summoning the tome and spamming “Feel my Wrath!” as you send out pretty ribbons and swirling healing thingy effects. Sure it was a bit niche and gimmicky, but a rework of it being mobile and doing big heals was the solution. Especially in high level content.

Elite specs are suppose to compliment the current specs of the profession, and offer a addition play style. Dragon Hunter and Druid do this, However, they are in stark contrast from their base professions.

A Ranger who had a bow now gets s staff, doing damage, conditions, pet themed skills now totally flips a coin and goes straight heal heal heal heal! Oh here, have a new pet! Now go back and heal heal heal! All without doing major reworks to the core profession and all the issues rangers currently have (including pet AI)

Guardian has great damage, support, conditions, Crowd control. The elite goes stark contrast! Now get to the back of the line and pew pew. Here, have a trap! Lay it at your feet! Now pew pew from 1200 range. Ok??

Also Keep in mind: What does the druid do it everyone is 100% health and is able to manage themselves for a majority of the encounter? What if someone gets cleaved and insta killed? Sure they have a few condis and stuff, but the elite is nearly 90% healing.

Sunshine.4680:

Guess there is a reason why Druid Staff attacks are supposed to be Solar but blue instead of white’yellow/golden, maybe it was intended to be a Guardian thing and they decided to switch in early conception?

Now that you mentioned it, this started to disturb me a bit; until now they have stayed very true to their classes colour schemes

Urgh another “Ranger finally got something nice so let’s QQ” thread.
Just back off and let us be viable for once.

Bryzy.2719:

Urgh another “Ranger finally got something nice so let’s QQ” thread.
Just back off and let us be viable for once.

I wouldn’t mind it if rangers were viable as ranged dps (even though they already are in PvP, but whatever), but rangers suddenly gaining one of the best (if not the best) healing specs in the game will always be utter nonsense to me. I didn’t sign up as a guardian to be a ranger wannabe, and I don’t think most rangers signed up to be guardian/monk wannabes.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Bryzy.2719:

Urgh another “Ranger finally got something nice so let’s QQ” thread.
Just back off and let us be viable for once.

I wouldn’t mind it if rangers were viable as ranged dps (even though they already are in PvP, but whatever), but rangers suddenly gaining one of the best (if not the best) healing specs in the game will always be utter nonsense to me. I didn’t sign up as a guardian to be a ranger wannabe, and I don’t think most rangers signed up to be guardian/monk wannabes.

Nobody told you to be anything. Guardian is already strong af. Now they have the DH, which is another type of gameplay added to the class. No body ever said it was a beter version of the class or that everyone has to play their elite spec.

If you watched the strawpoll that was on twitter, you could see that the top meta classes atm (war, ele, guard, thief) were the lowest ranked for their elite specs.
I think that has been a good job by Anet. This brings more balance. This is how the non-meta classes must have felt for a LOOONG time.
Again, no class has had a downgrade with their elite spec, but just additions (some of which could be meta now).

But the best thing is to just wait and let it sink in before judging.

Nike.2631:

There will be people who leverage what it gives and people who will bemoan its not a straight upgrade to what we have now. You’ve made it abundantly clear which group you’re in.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Well, enjoy your boring trash spec, I guess. I’ll continue to enjoy the base profession as well as chronomancers and druids.

You say that like it’s a bad thing. Creating a new flavor-of-the-month that everyone flocks to is a FAILURE of design. Creating something that gets people to spread out across builds following their personal tastes is a success.

Believe me, not only will I be enjoying the two variations of Dragonhunter builds I’ve posted, I’m gonna be PvPing like a madman helping build the metrics in my own tiny way: if they suck they get buffs (or at least avoid the nerf bat) and if they kick butt the sheer glee after all the trash talk thrown at them will be a warm fuzzy spot in my war stories for years to come. I literally cannot loose.

Jackums.3496:

Guardian possesses vastly superior AoE boon support, which is infinitely more valuable than healing in most game modes where focused healing isn’t needed or good.

That said, I don’t know where this mass delusion has come from amongst the Ele and Guardian players who think “their role” has been stolen. Neither class was ever a healer, and neither class does or should own such a role. Both classes will continue to offer greater group boon support, as well as being immensely more capable of dealing with focus fire in PvP game modes (which Ranger will continue to be mediocre at).

Following the release of HoT, Herald will be superior at providing every boon other than Aegis.

It’s a little funny that over in the Ranger forums that I hail from there’s so much complaining about how Druid will supposedly be useless because all it does is heal and then there are Guardians over here calling it OP and being jealous of it. Whenever Anet does anything it just seems to make EVERYONE angry. Why can’t they win? XD

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Aomine.5012:

Druid has no party-wide:

Might
Quickness
Stability
Protection
Aegis
Long duration Reflection

These are what Guardians have.

Why afraid losing to Druid, which would ONLY be useful in raid and nothing else?
Offensive and Defensive buffs are much more important than healing in 95% of the game contents.

How do you people know that the game will not change in a way where heals will be more important than protection and aegis?

You base your whole “logic” on the game as it is at the moment. A game where zerker meta rules everything, and you simply have to avoid damage. They said various times that will not be the case in HoT.

Now, I’m not saying the druid will or will not replace guardian. I hope every class will be viable or else its not healthy for the game.

My hopes are that there would be more classes able to fill the current guardian’s role, without that meaning guardians won’t be able to do it as well. I think that’s what they try to acomplish in the first place.

For instance, Guard can offer protection, aegis quickness and team might. Druid can offer much more healing and AoE controll to make up for the lack of protection and aegis, and spotter/frost spirit/Glyph of empowerment to make up for the lack of team might and quickness.

Same could go for lets say ventari, mesmer/chrono etc etc…

I base my points on “actual real life experience”, not some imagination of “future contents need this and that”, which is hardly arguably at this point since no-one has tried it before. Developers opinion =/= facts. All I can say is we’ll see.

Do you think Fractal 50 foes don’t hit like truck? Even with that standard of damage healing is not needed. (Because you’d have die anyway, it’s better to “mitigate” the damage entirely). Let me ask you, do you really think Ele is afford to be hit and then healed up in difficult contents? One successful aegis equates to 10k+healing. That’s why healers are useless in the original game to begin with.

Yes, Druid may be needed in Raid, but for 95% of other contents, Guardians can do better.

With icebow being dead aegis will be really important if you want to melee stuff in high level fractals. Guardian will stay as viable as ever.

Treetoptrickster.4205:

It’s a little funny that over in the Ranger forums that I hail from there’s so much complaining about how Druid will supposedly be useless because all it does is heal and then there are Guardians over here calling it OP and being jealous of it. Whenever Anet does anything it just seems to make EVERYONE angry. Why can’t they win? XD

If Balance patches were something you could win, you’d see it every time. But instead, they’re things that are necessary for the health of the game, just like amputating gangrene and changing your diet are good for bodily health. I don’t really see people universally excited about either of those options

Treetoptrickster.4205:

It’s a little funny that over in the Ranger forums that I hail from there’s so much complaining about how Druid will supposedly be useless because all it does is heal and then there are Guardians over here calling it OP and being jealous of it. Whenever Anet does anything it just seems to make EVERYONE angry. Why can’t they win? XD

This result isn’t all that surprising. As I’ve said before, rangers don’t want to be guardians and guardians don’t want to be rangers. When ANet uses bad logic, they get bad results.

The Druid actually makes sense in the context of the Ranger. It’s pretty much an extension of the Nature Magic traitline, the one based on boons and spirits.

When the Druid enters the Celestial Avatar form they become a player controlled Water Spirit/Stone Spirit/Spirit of Nature hybrid, and are as limited as such. In Nature Magic, there are some traits that hint towards a healing support Ranger, namely the two regeneration traits, the increased reviving speed, and the f2 pet based area healing (of which is explored further with the Druid being able to heal via its’ pet).

It just may seem a little jarring from what the GW1 Ranger was because the Nature Magic traitline (attribute) didn’t exist outside of the Nature Ritual spell type and even then the summon did all work. So you could argue that this kind of Ranger is new to GW2 and wouldn’t fit in with GW1, but it has been a core part of it from GW2’s release and therefore is justified. If it was the Warrior or Thief getting the Druid treatment then that would be completely ridiculous.

There is a general feeling of a support class within Nature Magic, it just gets drowned out by the other 4 core specializations. But that is why the Druid exists, so that the potential within Nature Magic can be explored further. If Nature Magic didn’t exist then I would agree that the Druid has no real basis as a Ranger specialization outside of maybe the flashy nature based spells that take a page from Lightning Reflexes.

That said, the Druid’s Celestial Avatar mechanic would be a worthy fit for the Guardian. I just don’t think it’s really stepping over boundaries into Guardian territory as much as the Dragonhunter steps over into Marksmanship and Skirmishing. The Guardian will probably get a Monk flavoured specialization in the future, its’ just not the time with the Herald and Druid filling that space at the moment. Since the Dragonhunter seems to reference the Zeal end of the spectrum, I wouldn’t be surprised if the next specialization was a healing/support based one with inspiration from Valor and/or Honor.

Mercurias.1826:

Obtena.7952:

Fashion Mage.3712:

Obtena.7952:

Is that what Anet thinks, or what players decide makes sense to them? Again, Anet determines and owns the concept of the class. What players decide/interpret/think has likely little to no influence on this. The only problem here is that players aren’t aligning what they think the class concept should to the class concept that Anet has created.

How the hell could anybody not see the connection guardians have with monks?

I don’t see how it’s relevant. Is that the connections and lore that Anet are using to create DH? I don’t think so. Does that lore exclude Rangers from having Druid? I don’t think so either.

Anet creates the lore and concepts they want; why should they be restricted to conform to something outside of GW2?

As another thread recently pointed out, the wings, spear, and shield you get in Dragonhunter are very reminiscent of the Paragon class, and considering HoT is going into the site of Nightfall, I think it’s really a nice touch.

And while Anet can tweak lore, some of it, as ancient superstition (e.g. Bloodstone being stones with stored magic the dragons eient eat rather than the source of all magic, and the original four schools of magic now seen as ancient superstition), I can’t think of an outright retcon like WoW has done in the past.

As for Druids? To me they seem like Melandru’s answer to Guardians being all angelic and Dwayna-y, or Necros and their obvious connection to Grenth’s (at least for the Six).

As far as I am aware, Heart of Thorns deals almost entirely with the Magumma Jungle. Elona is nowhere near there. Elona is connected to the same continent by way of the Crystal Desert, far south of Ascalon. (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elona)

If this was supposed to be the spiritual successor to the Paragon, then they failed. They should have introduced more shouts or even have Refrains attached to existing shouts, so you turn Guardian shouts into flip skills. The Dragonhunter is boring beyond imagining. I don’t care that Ranger got the Druid. I care that the Druid/Scrapper/Reaper/Mesmer/Herald/Berserker are all much more creative and/or feels like they are a natural extension to the class. The three specs that our Dev worked on are all consistently on the bottom of most rankings on the rank the specs thread. Its just sad. That is my opinion.

If you talk about the common guardian, there’s actually not a class taht can be a defensive support like the guardian.

The Druid will be a healer, not a defensive support, why don’t give any buff to defend your allies, something that the guardian do.

If youtake the example of the Dragonhunter is slowly beconing a dps specializzation more thana backline supporter.
But it can be a backline supporter if you play the DH with the actual common guardian support build + longbow to attack the enemy by range.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Treetoptrickster.4205:

It’s a little funny that over in the Ranger forums that I hail from there’s so much complaining about how Druid will supposedly be useless because all it does is heal and then there are Guardians over here calling it OP and being jealous of it. Whenever Anet does anything it just seems to make EVERYONE angry. Why can’t they win? XD

This result isn’t all that surprising. As I’ve said before, rangers don’t want to be guardians and guardians don’t want to be rangers. When ANet uses bad logic, they get bad results.

Pretty much this, in my opinion. It feels like a lot of us made Guardians because we want to do the whole healing/support thing, while most rangers simply don’t.

Personally, I don’t think Druid is OP, and I seriously doubt Guardians will be pushed out of viability by it or any of the other new classes. Nor do I think there’s anything inherently wrong with the idea of the Dragonhunter, and it does give something new to the class. I am jealous, though, not because I begrudge rangers having a viable specialization, but because regardless of viability, the Druid does the things I really want to do.

Crazy to see how this thread has blown up!

It seems there’s a lot of good opinions here. I think now, after some distance, I am honestly just enviously that the Druid seems like a really cool, interesting dynamic for the Ranger whereas the Dragonhunter just feels… so out of place.

Like there’s no cohesion, appeal, or cool aesthetic too it. It is not the case, I am sure, but it feels like DH is a secondhand specialization compared to the awesome that appears to be the Druid. Maybe the Druid will be terrible in practice, but boy, does it look way more holistic than ‘Trap Guard’.

That’s just weird to me. If you’re acquainted with archer gameplay from other MMOs, the Dragonhunter promises to be a beast, mixing ranged hard-hitting “turret” style shots, the ability to swat down other missiles, ranged area-denial with an ally buff component, an a multi-target cage. We get three extra signets as a class mechanic, a great pool of weapons to play against the longbow, several powerful lines of utility skills (meditation, shout, and consecration), and (drawing on existing lines) some amazing traits for every role. Multiple sources of cripple and some interesting traps will make it harder for foes to close and give them some reason to regret doing it.

I’m looking forward to having a great time with the Dragonhunter. And while people here are eyeing the Druid enviously, don’t think for a moment there aren’t Ranger players eyeing us getting longbow/traps gameplay without the ball-and-chain that is bad pet AI and feeling equally envious of us.

The DH traits need some realignment and the traps need some QoL to provide a stunbreak and some condition cleanse but if it gets those DH is going to be a smooth launch that can build popularity over time as more people get a feel for what it offers.

Greek.4396:

Druid = REAL backline support

Dragon Hunter was all but an illusion

When the new car smell is finally let out and people have an actual chance to kick the tires the Druid’s monomaniacal focus on green numbers is gonna wear thin fast.

The one thing is does incredibly well does not excuse the many things it does not at all..