Guild Wars 2

Hi guys!

In the feedback thread of BW3, Karl asked not only for our opinions about DH but also for the core traits of guardian. I think, there were some really good suggestions for improvements for the core traits, too.

We got some response/changes about DH, do we get the same about core traits before HOT launch?

Well, here is hoping Roy shared the feedback about Brutal Blade with Karl… seeing as Sword Wave was the #1 cited example as to why that change needed to happen.

Easy to get discouraged considering we haven’t heard from Karl for weeks…. Meanwhile, Roy is actively engaged in the Rev forums, last post was at most 2 days ago.

It is sad that only Roy seems to have time to chat, but I have to believe its because Karl is so busy making the changes we’ve request that he just doesn’t have time to tell us about it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Dragonhunter-updates-post-BWE3-launch

It’s a Sticky in our subforum.

Velho.7123:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Dragonhunter-updates-post-BWE3-launch

It’s a Sticky in our subforum.

That is for Dragon Hunter, OP specifically asked for core changes.

Guardians are and will remain i a good spot for some time I fear…

Alent.4780:

Easy to get discouraged considering we haven’t heard from Karl for weeks…. Meanwhile, Roy is actively engaged in the Rev forums, last post was at most 2 days ago.

It is sad that only Roy seems to have time to chat

It’s not Roy, it’s the Rev. Rev has priority atm for obvious reasons.

Saiyan.1704:

It’s not Roy, it’s the Rev. Rev has priority atm for obvious reasons.

Well, yes, we can clearly see that, but just because they are new doesn’t mean the rest of the player base should be cast aside and forgotten. Are you really implying that it is impossible to reply to some of the suggestions that they have asked us for? Why even ask in the first place if they don’t have time for anyone but Rev?

Alent.4780:

Saiyan.1704:

It’s not Roy, it’s the Rev. Rev has priority atm for obvious reasons.

Well, yes, we can clearly see that, but just because they are new doesn’t mean the rest of the player base should be cast aside and forgotten. Are you really implying that it is impossible to reply to some of the suggestions that they have asked us for? Why even ask in the first place if they don’t have time for anyone but Rev?

Maybe if players toned down sensationalism, devs would be more likely to engage us. The playerbase has been cast aside and forgotten because … Revs? Are people to take this seriously? Devs HAVE replied and implemented LOTS of suggestions that they have asked us for. Just because they aren’t the specific things on certain players priority lists doesn’t mean people should be dishonest.

Specifically for this, I do fault Karl on his ambitious goal to consider core changes … this I think is simply not realistic and in all honesty, what core changes have they NOT heard us already talk about dozens of times?

Obtena.7952:

Maybe if players toned down sensationalism, devs would be more likely to engage us. The playerbase has been cast aside and forgotten because … Revs? Are people to take this seriously? Devs HAVE replied and implemented LOTS of suggestions that they have asked us for. Just because they aren’t the specific things on certain players priority lists doesn’t mean people should be dishonest.

Specifically for this, I do fault Karl on his ambitious goal to consider core changes … this I think is simply not realistic and in all honesty, what core changes have they NOT heard us already talk about dozens of times?

Its sensational to point out the fact that the rev forum is active while other forums, Guardian included, have been left to languish? When was the last time devs actually implemented a change we asked for? And don’t say shields because literally know one asked for cool down reduction. All I’m asking for is a little communication, if features have to wait I understand! There is no reason to break out the soap boxes, I think we can all agree an active conversation would be nice, but thus far we’ve gotten a post or two at the start of a thread and then zero comments on our feedback.

Alent.4780:

Obtena.7952:

Maybe if players toned down sensationalism, devs would be more likely to engage us. The playerbase has been cast aside and forgotten because … Revs? Are people to take this seriously? Devs HAVE replied and implemented LOTS of suggestions that they have asked us for. Just because they aren’t the specific things on certain players priority lists doesn’t mean people should be dishonest.

Specifically for this, I do fault Karl on his ambitious goal to consider core changes … this I think is simply not realistic and in all honesty, what core changes have they NOT heard us already talk about dozens of times?

Its sensational to point out the fact that the rev forum is active while other forums, Guardian included, have been left to languish? When was the last time devs actually implemented a change we asked for? And don’t say shields because literally know one asked for cool down reduction. All I’m asking for is a little communication, if features have to wait I understand! There is no reason to break out the soap boxes, I think we can all agree an active conversation would be nice, but thus far we’ve gotten a post or two at the start of a thread and then zero comments on our feedback.

You’re other post, including this one is very sensational, as well as demonstrating you’re lack of understanding for the mechanics of changes in MMO’s in general. I’m going to leave you and your friends to scream at walls on the forums while the rest of us use the keys we have been given by Anet to open the doors. GL.

Obtena.7952:

You’re other post, including this one is very sensational, as well as demonstrating you’re lack of understanding for the mechanics of changes in MMO’s in general. I’m going to leave you and your friends to scream at walls on the forums while the rest of us use the keys we have been given by Anet to open the doors. GL.

Fantastic rebuttal sir, I am glad you are willing to address my points….

Or, you know, insult me. That works too.

You didn’t have points. Dude was talking about core skills, you decided to talk about something not relevant to the thread about how we are abandoned, ignored and forgotten by devs because Revs.

Actually, there is a relevant complaint here, you just haven’t applied your rage properly to address it; there is no way the devs are going to address core skills during HoT release; the very idea they would do so indicates to me they are overly confident about how error/bug free and well balanced all the new elite specs are going to be.

Some updates to Virtue’s would also make sense. Not sure if anyone’s noticed but unless you spec into Virtue’s, the class skill is pretty bad(both active/passive’s).

Baseline

Passives

Justice: In addition to burning, why not grant the Guardian Fury.

Resolve: Increase the base healing/scaling(this would help being so dependent on Monk’s Focus/Medi’s)

Courage: Grant yourself protection for an X. amount of time when struck. (ICD of course).

Actives

Justice: AoE Swiftness and Fury for a small duration. (4-5 seconds)

Resolve: AoE Regen and burst healing. (work on the base/scaling)

Courage: Longer duration of AoE protection and a shorter duration of Resistance.

This could make virtue’s baseline too strong but it’s just a thought.

Arken.3725:

Some updates to Virtue’s would also make sense. Not sure if anyone’s noticed but unless you spec into Virtue’s, the class skill is pretty bad(both active/passive’s).

Baseline

Passives

Justice: In addition to burning, why not grant the Guardian Fury.

Resolve: Increase the base healing/scaling(this would help being so dependent on Monk’s Focus/Medi’s)

Courage: Grant yourself protection for an X. amount of time when struck. (ICD of course).

Actives

Justice: AoE Swiftness and Fury for a small duration. (4-5 seconds)

Resolve: AoE Regen and burst healing. (work on the base/scaling)

Courage: Longer duration of AoE protection and a shorter duration of Resistance.

This could make virtue’s baseline too strong but it’s just a thought.

This is a good point, and great ideas! Many other classes get decent usage out of their class mechanic without having to trait into it like we usually do. For guardians, it seems like we’re shooting ourselves in the foot by not taking the Virtues trait line. Also, we have some pretty high cool-downs on our virtues if they’re not traited (the fact that they’re shared to party members doesn’t justify such long cool downs in my opinion). 50 seconds for a 1.6k base aoe heal, 75 seconds for a single aegis application…

A little bit of change, and rolling certain effects (like improved passive on VoR) into base-line would encourage some build diversity. Base cooldowns should be slightly lower. Still higher than DH cool downs, because these are instant, but still lower than what they are now, such as 25 seconds, 45 seconds, 65 seconds.

Arcaedus.7290:

Arken.3725:

Some updates to Virtue’s would also make sense. Not sure if anyone’s noticed but unless you spec into Virtue’s, the class skill is pretty bad(both active/passive’s).

Baseline

Passives

Justice: In addition to burning, why not grant the Guardian Fury.

Resolve: Increase the base healing/scaling(this would help being so dependent on Monk’s Focus/Medi’s)

Courage: Grant yourself protection for an X. amount of time when struck. (ICD of course).

Actives

Justice: AoE Swiftness and Fury for a small duration. (4-5 seconds)

Resolve: AoE Regen and burst healing. (work on the base/scaling)

Courage: Longer duration of AoE protection and a shorter duration of Resistance.

This could make virtue’s baseline too strong but it’s just a thought.

This is a good point, and great ideas! Many other classes get decent usage out of their class mechanic without having to trait into it like we usually do. For guardians, it seems like we’re shooting ourselves in the foot by not taking the Virtues trait line. Also, we have some pretty high cool-downs on our virtues if they’re not traited (the fact that they’re shared to party members doesn’t justify such long cool downs in my opinion). 50 seconds for a 1.6k base aoe heal, 75 seconds for a single aegis application…

A little bit of change, and rolling certain effects (like improved passive on VoR) into base-line would encourage some build diversity. Base cooldowns should be slightly lower. Still higher than DH cool downs, because these are instant, but still lower than what they are now, such as 25 seconds, 45 seconds, 65 seconds.

This is part of the issue of why Guardian’s (dps mostly) are forced into both Valor/Virtue’s. You literally only have 1 line that you can be flexible with which shouldn’t be,

I feel Guardian Virtues design is still a legacy of GW2 release combat that have yet to catch up with GW2’s combat developments over the past years. On a whole part of the traited virtue bonuses need to be made baseline. What I would look at is:

• Inspired Virtue Baseline.
• VoR removes 1 condition Baseline (Absolute Resolution adds 2 additional removals to bring it back up to 3 in total).
• VoR & VoC CDs reduced to VoR 45 sec & VoC 50 sec (Please remove the elite feeling CDs & these will still have longer Cds the DH virtues).

Get the base virtues in a good position & then balance traits around these base virtues. Make them wanted untraited & give them the WOW factor when traited.

JimmydT.7281:

We got some response/changes about DH, do we get the same about core traits before HOT launch?

You know the answer and let me told you something, I prefer a quiet Devs doing his job then a daily reply about nothing.. plus remember how bad DH is atm, give Karl some time to fix it then ask for core.. he is human he can’t do tons of things at same time (oh gosh am I defending Karl? kitten !)

Sarif.1827:

Well, here is hoping Roy shared the feedback about Brutal Blade with Karl… seeing as Sword Wave was the #1 cited example as to why that change needed to happen.

Maybe not at launch but I believe this is an upcoming change

Obtena.7952:

I’m going to leave you and your friends to scream at walls on the forums while the rest of us use the keys we have been given by Anet to open the doors.

ahahah thanks for the laugh and bye bye.

ps: as always forgive my english <3
edit: typo happen

They are at least changing the way pets and minions work so that will affect spirit weapons as well. I don’t think we should get too excited about other changes to the core specializations. I made some suggestions in the beta feedback thread regarding some traits and utilities that definitely need to be addressed. Like signet utilities and retaliation/symbol traits.

Bezagron.7352:

I feel Guardian Virtues design is still a legacy of GW2 release combat that have yet to catch up with GW2’s combat developments over the past years. On a whole part of the traited virtue bonuses need to be made baseline. What I would look at is:

• Inspired Virtue Baseline.
• VoR removes 1 condition Baseline (Absolute Resolution adds 2 additional removals to bring it back up to 3 in total).
• VoR & VoC CDs reduced to VoR 45 sec & VoC 50 sec (Please remove the elite feeling CDs & these will still have longer Cds the DH virtues).

Get the base virtues in a good position & then balance traits around these base virtues. Make them wanted untraited & give them the WOW factor when traited.

No, the current virtue traits need to be made baseline, at least for the user. Virtue traits can expand the guardian virtues to affect other players and add additional functionality.

A guardian virtues should be as important as a mesmer shatters, or warrior/necro F1 skills.

It is annoying that running virtues traitline is mandatory on every single guardian build whether it be PvE, PvP, WvW or whatever because it makes our bad virtues usable.

If you want Guardians to be independent of Medi’s for sustain, you need change how our Virtue’s function. A very low hp/s on resolve is regeneration and a single block every 40 seconds is almost unnoticeable.

Edit: Plenty of other changes would be well received I think by many.

-Speeding up Hammer’s auto

-Maybe changing how symbols work since they seem to be too static in such a dynamic game.

-Speeding up Scepter auto so it can’t be strafed/turning smite into a symbol.

-Changing sword auto from a projectile to an actual melee hit.

-Changing Mace auto #3 to cleave and maybe having Protector’s strike act like other blocks that ONLY trigger within melee range.

-Allowing you to move while casting Empower.

-Changing Cleansing Flame to remove a few conditions on the Guardian itself.

Again, these are just a few with so many I could name that I feel to be completely outdated/subpar including more skills, traits and utilities.

Edit again: Also, losing the boon duration from the Virtue’s line was pretty rough, this should be brought back.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

It is annoying that running virtues traitline is mandatory on every single guardian build whether it be PvE, PvP, WvW or whatever because it makes our bad virtues usable.

Its not really mandatory, granted it does add allot of utility support onto them which feels like it should be there anyway.

Ive seen guardians do quite well without virtues traitline.
Granted they either had a shoutbuild or were running a very offensive build.

rbbthole.9074:

JimmydT.7281:

We got some response/changes about DH, do we get the same about core traits before HOT launch?

You know the answer and let me told you something, I prefer a quiet Devs doing his job then a daily reply about nothing.. plus remember how bad DH is atm, give Karl some time to fix it then ask for core.. he is human he can’t do tons of things at same time (oh gosh am I defending Karl? kitten !)

Yes, now i know the answer! ;-) Time is running out. See u tomorrow in Maguuma!

Hunter.4783:

Bezagron.7352:

I feel Guardian Virtues design is still a legacy of GW2 release combat that have yet to catch up with GW2’s combat developments over the past years. On a whole part of the traited virtue bonuses need to be made baseline. What I would look at is:

• Inspired Virtue Baseline.
• VoR removes 1 condition Baseline (Absolute Resolution adds 2 additional removals to bring it back up to 3 in total).
• VoR & VoC CDs reduced to VoR 45 sec & VoC 50 sec (Please remove the elite feeling CDs & these will still have longer Cds the DH virtues).

Get the base virtues in a good position & then balance traits around these base virtues. Make them wanted untraited & give them the WOW factor when traited.

No, the current virtue traits need to be made baseline, at least for the user. Virtue traits can expand the guardian virtues to affect other players and add additional functionality.

A guardian virtues should be as important as a mesmer shatters, or warrior/necro F1 skills.

So we want:

• Inspired Virtue
• Virtue of Retribution
• Power of the Virtuous
• Supreme Justice
• Absolute Resolution
• Permeating Wrath
• Indomitable Courage

With what Battle Presence granting virtue bonuses to allies. Isn’t this just a bit to strong. I felt like my above idea enhanced base virtue enough to make them worthwhile for their actives while not making them to powerful with reduced CDs. I feel:

• Virtue of Retribution & Power of the Virtuous still make great minor traits for this specialisation.
• I would prefer to see Supreme Justice turned into a active VoJ enhancement trait & Permeating Wrath turned into the passive VoJ enhancement trait. So PW gains 3 strikes to trigger & SJ active burn increase by 1 sec & add activating VoJ reduces virtues on CD by 1 sec.
• Again partly the same with regarding Absolute Resolution & Battle Presence roll in all the passive enhancements into Battle Presence making that the passive trait enhancement & adjust Absolute Resolution into the active VoR enhancement. Or just merge them into the one trait.
• Indomitable Courage needs no change.
• A new minor that provides a small duration (5 sec) of swiftness on virtue activation.
• Swap Glacial Heart into the Honor specialisation which makes sense with Writ of Persistences & place Honorable Staff in Virtues as it has greater synergy with back line support & what weapon you would typically want when playing consecrations.

Overall I would like to see a slight reduction of just virtue traits & more play style themed traits. eg.

• VoJ’s Virtue offensive game play line - Unscathed Contender, Supreme Justice (VoJ’s active enhancement), Permeating Wrath (VoJ’s passive enhancement).
• VoR’s Virtue support game play line - Retaliatory Subconscious, Absolute Resolution (VoR’s active enhancement), Battle Presence (VoR’s passive enhancement).
• VoC’s Consecration game play themed line - Master of Consecrations, Honorable Staff (Swapped with Glacial Heart from Honor), Indomitable Courage (Stun break option for consecration game play).

-Power of the Virtuous is in a bit of an odd place since Guardian’s don’t really have multiple long-lasting boons (especially meditation) so this feels out of place.

-Virtue of retribution is also a bit weak in the sense retal only works on high power builds that can sustain incredibly well. Again, not suited very well for anything but bunker and even then, your power is average at best.

-I can agree with your suggestion for Permeating Wrath.

-A lot of traits should be either merged/changed. Again, to gain dependency from Meditations, you’d need another form of decent sustain and upping the base/scaling on resolution would be a good step.

-Overall, the passive’s(mostly courage) should be changed since a single block every 40 seconds is really unnoticeable at best.

Here are the patch notes:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guardian-core-changes-at-HOT-release

Guardian
Smite: Fixed a bug that caused all impacts to fall within a smaller than intended radius when casting this skill.