Guild Wars 2

I already have a very critty high DPS and squishy thief and now i want something a bit tankier and supporty.

I’m probably going to be focusing on dungeons but being able to handle your standard PvE is of course also helpfull (In case i need to help some guildies with Temples in Orr or something)

Is guardian good for being tanky? I know of course that you can never be full tank in this game so it is not what i am expecting. I want to be able to provide a decent amount of heal aswell alongside the usual pain dealing just so that I can be usefull in a dungeon.

(if for example going zerker is more helpful for a dungeon party than going knights, then suggestions in that regard are also appreciated.) :D

Run full berserker, 0/30/0/30/10.

colesy.8490:

Run full berserker, 0/30/0/30/10.

someone didnt read. thats the guardian dps build

You probably want more of an anchor build, one that can stay in the fight and be a rallying point for your team.

i personaly recomend Knights armor with zerker jewls, this will give you a nice mix of survivablity, and damage, then if you want decent survivablity and a little more for the damage side,

0/15/30/20/5 works wonders, letting you spam virtue of justice every kill for might and blind.

if you want alot more survivable then 0/0/30/30/10 will make you quite tanky and acess to alot of party support. both builds i recomend shout utilites and either hammer or greatsword weapon. although other weapons are good to have for other situations. Hammer for tanking and greatsword for damage

If you go in CoF, you can go whit berserker and do great, if you go in fractal 40 you need to be the bunker/supporter for the healt of the party.
I’ve a build 10-30-30-0-0 whit armor Soldier and weapons and trinket knight. A build based on 1h weapons. And do great!
Isn’t a supporter, but if I need I can change in weapon and trinket cleric, mace+focus/shield and be the tank of the group, whitout problems.

There’s a lot of build that can be good in dungeon, you only need to try to make your own.

someone didnt read. thats the guardian dps build

Read:

(if for example going zerker is more helpful for a dungeon party than going knights, then suggestions in that regard are also appreciated.)

So again, run berserker.

You get survivability from your wall of reflection, shield of the avenger, block (virtue), block (retreat), protection (hold the line), protection (save yourselves, protection (hammer autoattack chain).

Stop telling him to run a suboptimal build.

Two things:

Reilem.5910:

i want something a bit tankier and supporty.

1. Guardian is the right profession for you. There are lots of tank/support builds in the builds thread.

Reilem.5910:

(if for example going zerker is more helpful for a dungeon party than going knights, then suggestions in that regard are also appreciated.)

2. The most ‘helpful’ gear/build is going to depend on who is in your team. Running zerkers with unknown noobs isn’t going to be very helpful if you have to carry them, even a bit. Zerkers will only be the most helpful if the rest of your team are highly capable of running dungeons and doing something similar.

Aven.7295:

colesy.8490:

Run full berserker, 0/30/0/30/10.

someone didnt read. thats the guardian dps build

Actually its not, its the dps centric build some berserker guardians use since they need a hp cushion from honor. Hence why i think most full berserker are full of it since they dress for dps but do not fully trait for it.

Its infact possible to squeeze out just as much or more dps from a pvt armor and berserker trinkets guardian with a different build.

troll hat on:

but everybody should be running full zerk or they are bad players

troll hat off

That being said, Guardian is the only class I have played that can actually survive well in full zerk gear. I got a full zerk set with soldier runes 0-10-30-30-10 AH/Healing Symbols build Staff/GS build. 2 Shouts remove condis on my team, AH helps keep me alive, the healing symbols helps everyone facetank a bit and always carry wall of reflection. Sometimes I swap a shout for shield of the avenger depending on the situation. With the zerk gear and trinkets I still get good sustained DPS and some nice crits.

FWIW here’s my PVE build with gives respectable damage and still allows for player improvement while getting more comfortable with the nuances of the class. It’s not super supporty though, just keeps you off the floor if you’re not a pro yet.
http://tinyurl.com/mdjavds

i think starting off, you can try knight’s gear maybe and then slowly phase it out and work your way towards zerker gear. if played right, you can output alot of dmg and still be sustainable. : )) for yoruself and yuor team.

though, i’ve also met some guards who said they started off in full zerker and thus didn’t have a transition period from being “tanky” to learnign to have to dodge a lot and fully mitigate or avoid dmg.

Brutaly.6257:

Aven.7295:

colesy.8490:

Run full berserker, 0/30/0/30/10.

someone didnt read. thats the guardian dps build

Actually its not, its the dps centric build some berserker guardians use since they need a hp cushion from honor. Hence why i think most full berserker are full of it since they dress for dps but do not fully trait for it.

Its infact possible to squeeze out just as much or more dps from a pvt armor and berserker trinkets guardian with a different build.

Obviously, you have no idea about zerker builds. Vitality is probably the last reason why any zerker player goes into the Honor line, it’s all about support. Unless you have a group which already stacks 25 might in another way, EM alone beats the 30% crit damage from Valor, for example. The only true DPS trait missing in Brazil’s build is Fiery Wrath and that’s the tradeoff between squeezing out the last bit of damage and being able to provide easy condition remove or some other support so the rest of the group does not have to do it.

CptAurellian.9537:

Brutaly.6257:

Aven.7295:

colesy.8490:

Run full berserker, 0/30/0/30/10.

someone didnt read. thats the guardian dps build

Actually its not, its the dps centric build some berserker guardians use since they need a hp cushion from honor. Hence why i think most full berserker are full of it since they dress for dps but do not fully trait for it.

Its infact possible to squeeze out just as much or more dps from a pvt armor and berserker trinkets guardian with a different build.

Obviously, you have no idea about zerker builds. Vitality is probably the last reason why any zerker player goes into the Honor line, it’s all about support. Unless you have a group which already stacks 25 might in another way, EM alone beats the 30% crit damage from Valor, for example. The only true DPS trait missing in Brazil’s build is Fiery Wrath and that’s the tradeoff between squeezing out the last bit of damage and being able to provide easy condition remove or some other support so the rest of the group does not have to do it.

Oh i do have a clue, sure there are some nice supportive stuff in there but people seem to marketing it as a max dps build (which the point of zerker gear is in the first place)

And no EM contributes with max <4,99 stacks of might (average should be around 3-4 stacks with 70% crit chance) with 0% boon duration which in a 2140 (zerker with ascended trinkets and 10 points in zeal) power build is 8% with 5 stacks (which is theoretically impossible from EM alone and 0% boon duration) and more like 5% in reality with a tiny aoe which very seldom benefits the team.

And i didnt say anything about valor but since you mentioned it valor ads in roughly 9% dps that isnt conditional like EM and elusive power.

And if its support and dps you want there are even better options in 25 points virtues since you get bot boon duration (might stacking on weapon swap) for the team and extra damage per boon. Its practically impossible to play with less than 6-8 boons at all times in a coordinated group and 4-5 in a really bad group.

Personally i go 30/30///* with zerkers and alter the last 10 points to fit the scripted content at hand. If its dps we are talking about why degrade the zerker gear by not building for damage.

All the support needed are in the utility skills and consecrations and spirit weapons are both boosted by virtues.

In short honor isnt the best support for dps centric builds either.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJARWlYgyCXFyLEfIFRuAbBYP0YG/41DHmQGC-jwxAYrARRgICAJvioxWZLiGryVIVFHZA-e

This is the build I run for PvE and Dungeons

Brutaly.6257:

Actually its not, its the dps centric build some berserker guardians use since they need a hp cushion from honor. Hence why i think most full berserker are full of it since they dress for dps but do not fully trait for it.

Its infact possible to squeeze out just as much or more dps from a pvt armor and berserker trinkets guardian with a different build.

I see what you did here.

Back to the topic, for dungeons I feel like 10/30/0/5/0 with 25 bonus points is a good starting template for a dps guardian or even you could drop 5 points from honour and radiance if you don’t like 1-h weapons.

Sorry Op for neglecting you.

If you want tanky (take a beating) and do open world pve (dps centric) at the same time a 0/30/30/5/5 might be what you are looking for.

mix berserker, pvt and valkyrie in your armor to hit you personal sweetspot in HP and toughness.

berserker weapons and a mix pvt and berserkers in your trinkets.

Use stat increasing sigils in MH and sigil of battle in OH.

I would go for 2*water and 2*monk for moving around in the world and boon duration for the team and 2*ruby orbs for some added damage.

Scepter and 1h sword as main weapons (with right hand strength those are really nice) and ofc have staff for moving around in open world.

Shelter as heal and smite conditions as condition remover and aoe. Stand your ground as supportive shout and the last one you can swap for retreat (open world running) hallowed ground, wall of reflection or shield of the avenger or anything else you might fancy.

Brutaly.6257:

mix berserker, pvt and valkyrie in your armor to hit you personal sweetspot in HP and toughness.

I have to ask that but what’s the HP/toughness sweetspot for ascalon fractal at level 79?

heh, i want to assume at lvl 79, there is no sweet spot to be had. only rough spots! hardy har har. XDDD

i will say though, everyone’s sweet spot in any given situation or in any controlled environment will vary. and mine’s definitely shifted from 16kHP/3K armor to 14kHP/2.5k armor.

and lastly @OP – i can’t speak for other classes, but for the Guardian at least, “tankiness” will not come strictly from raw stats, but rather your ability mitigate damage, to upkeep healing to remain topped up on health, to hinder your opponents from doing damage to you via… your various boons like protection, regen, vigor and using blinds and blocks to you advantage. remain mobile. be on your toes. always know your positioning and what you’re up against. then use the class mechanics, unique skills to help you overcome it all and rule the world. muahahaha/

akamon.2769:

(…)
and lastly @OP – i can’t speak for other classes, but for the Guardian at least, “tankiness” will not come strictly from raw stats, but rather your ability mitigate damage, to upkeep healing to remain topped up on health, to hinder your opponents from doing damage to you via… your various boons like protection, regen, vigor and using blinds and blocks to you advantage. remain mobile. be on your toes. always know your positioning and what you’re up against. then use the class mechanics, unique skills to help you overcome it all and rule the world. muahahaha/

Pitty we have a low health pool :] , i wish we could have like 5k+ more health or at least healing power reworked.

haviz.1340:

Brutaly.6257:

mix berserker, pvt and valkyrie in your armor to hit you personal sweetspot in HP and toughness.

I have to ask that but what’s the HP/toughness sweetspot for ascalon fractal at level 79?

Well i have no idea what so ever what his personal sweetspot is. You need to ask him, not me.

Personally i play with about 11k health when going full berserker in fractals but he asked for both tankiness and open world pve so it might be a bit different for him.

Sometimes i go with 17k with pvt armor and atm i fancy a 17k with full celestials and might stacking.

It all depends on what i find fun atm.

Okay so as i assumed zerker is still a very popular option, to be honest my real reason for not wanting to go FULL zerker is because of that pricey pricey armour. I will probably be getting most from dungeons but i remember that getting all those trinkets on my thief cost me a lot. And since i am halfway to a legendary, saving money is of the essence.

So what if I wanted to be that guy that kept making litte green 100s and 50s pop up on everyones screen (healing them). Is that more of an ele thing or can guardians do that as well? Keep in mind of course that i run with pug groups 90% of the time and if I go with anything organized and I need to provide DPS then I will switch to my thief.

So yeah going full zerk will defenitely not be a preference for me, however some of the mixing suggestions do sound interesting, (since i now run multiple dungeons i get varying tokens so I would be able to put those to good use). So are there any people that agree with the people above me? Having multiple people suggest the same thing can often seal the deal. :P

Brutaly.6257:

haviz.1340:

Brutaly.6257:

mix berserker, pvt and valkyrie in your armor to hit you personal sweetspot in HP and toughness.

I have to ask that but what’s the HP/toughness sweetspot for ascalon fractal at level 79?

Well i have no idea what so ever what his personal sweetspot is. You need to ask him, not me.

The answer is that there isn’t one. Because no amount of additional HP/toughness will help you.

Gear
I run almost full Soldier’s armor (besides the helmet => Knight’s) with full Superior runes of the Soldier. Weapons are almost always Knight’s and my trinkets are full Ascended, the unnamed stat combo (Precision/Toughness/Power).

Build
My trait setup is 0/0/30/30/10. To get some nice Healing and Vitality and for “Two-Handed Mastery”. Please note: This is personal preference, don’t judge me, I just like to have a decent health pool. And “Altruïstic Healing”, it is a dungeon build you’re looking for, isn’t it.

Explanation
I tried building a very tanky guardian. With 3.2+ k armor and 17+ k Health I think I succeeded. Along with loads of condition removal for me and my party. But when playing in genereal solo PvE or even some WvW I needed some damage (hence the precision). I managed to get 48% critical chance and 35% Critical damage, which is very nice considering I’m the Tank. On top of this, when running dungeons: there is a very high chance of warriors being involved. This allows me to have acces to fury (along with the “Save Yourselves” Shout) which in turn boosts my crit chance to 68%.

I’m almost done with my “Dungeon Master”-title using this build, I’m aiming for the Fractal Capacitor and I own multiple sets of dungeon armor. I never die during world events and manage to pack a (relatively) big punch.

Build: http://tinyurl.com/kv4zca9

Note: traits can be swapped around for “Honorable Shield”, “Mace of Justice”, choose the “Writ of …” traits making this a build that allows the use of all weapons and playstyles.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Brutaly.6257:

haviz.1340:

Brutaly.6257:

mix berserker, pvt and valkyrie in your armor to hit you personal sweetspot in HP and toughness.

I have to ask that but what’s the HP/toughness sweetspot for ascalon fractal at level 79?

Well i have no idea what so ever what his personal sweetspot is. You need to ask him, not me.

The answer is that there isn’t one. Because no amount of additional HP/toughness will help you.

Since we are talking about OP sweetspot, which is a personal preference, i assume you know him well to make that statement.

Brutaly.6257:

Since we are talking about OP sweetspot, which is a personal preference, i assume you know him well to make that statement.

You don’t have to know anyone to know that no amount of defense would help him at that high level because mobs attack too fast and some of them can actually cleave.

Obtena.7952:

Two things:

Reilem.5910:

i want something a bit tankier and supporty.

1. Guardian is the right profession for you. There are lots of tank/support builds in the builds thread.

Reilem.5910:

(if for example going zerker is more helpful for a dungeon party than going knights, then suggestions in that regard are also appreciated.)

2. The most ‘helpful’ gear/build is going to depend on who is in your team. Running zerkers with unknown noobs isn’t going to be very helpful if you have to carry them, even a bit. Zerkers will only be the most helpful if the rest of your team are highly capable of running dungeons and doing something similar.

Thats wrong. Its easier to carry a group when you have dps. If the group has low dps then the best you can do to support them is maximise your dps while providing blocks, protection, regen and reflects.

haviz.1340:

Brutaly.6257:

Since we are talking about OP sweetspot, which is a personal preference, i assume you know him well to make that statement.

You don’t have to know anyone to know that no amount of defense would help him at that high level because mobs attack too fast and some of them can actually cleave.

Which in no way contradict that it is still a personal preference and as such i cant even speculate which sweetspot OP find in his combined tankiness and open world pve build. You know, the one he asks for in his opening post.

its not a fact what hp and toughness he should use, its a personal preference, yours being that none is enough.

He asked mostly for dungeon build advice in his opening post and my remark is that there is no sweetspot (not just mine) for harder content unless you could run with tome of courage with 50k hp all the time.

Brutaly.6257:

Oh i do have a clue, sure there are some nice supportive stuff in there but people seem to marketing it as a max dps build (which the point of zerker gear is in the first place)

And no EM contributes with max <4,99 stacks of might (average should be around 3-4 stacks with 70% crit chance) with 0% boon duration which in a 2140 (zerker with ascended trinkets and 10 points in zeal) power build is 8% with 5 stacks (which is theoretically impossible from EM alone and 0% boon duration) and more like 5% in reality with a tiny aoe which very seldom benefits the team.

And i didnt say anything about valor but since you mentioned it valor ads in roughly 9% dps that isnt conditional like EM and elusive power.

And if its support and dps you want there are even better options in 25 points virtues since you get bot boon duration (might stacking on weapon swap) for the team and extra damage per boon. Its practically impossible to play with less than 6-8 boons at all times in a coordinated group and 4-5 in a really bad group.

Personally i go 30/30///* with zerkers and alter the last 10 points to fit the scripted content at hand. If its dps we are talking about why degrade the zerker gear by not building for damage.

All the support needed are in the utility skills and consecrations and spirit weapons are both boosted by virtues.

In short honor isnt the best support for dps centric builds either.

Ah, thanks for remembering lazy people like me and providing numbers, so I don’t need to do it. So, to take your numbers, 3 stacks of EM are a realistic scenario, which would provide 3.5 % more damage at 3000 power (halfway between no buffs and all possible buffs, so probably realistic). However, the EM range is not as tiny as you claim, which means that anyone who knows what he does (= is in melee range) will get it. That 3.5 % group DPS increase can be translated roughly into what would be 17.5 % of your own DPS. I don’t see many traits (except FW, which is another story I’ve already discussed in my previous post) which provide such a boost. Taking Virtues or whatever is not as effective, unless your group already has its 25 might.

spoj.9672:

Obtena.7952:

Two things:

Reilem.5910:

i want something a bit tankier and supporty.

1. Guardian is the right profession for you. There are lots of tank/support builds in the builds thread.

Reilem.5910:

(if for example going zerker is more helpful for a dungeon party than going knights, then suggestions in that regard are also appreciated.)

2. The most ‘helpful’ gear/build is going to depend on who is in your team. Running zerkers with unknown noobs isn’t going to be very helpful if you have to carry them, even a bit. Zerkers will only be the most helpful if the rest of your team are highly capable of running dungeons and doing something similar.

Thats wrong. Its easier to carry a group when you have dps. If the group has low dps then the best you can do to support them is maximise your dps while providing blocks, protection, regen and reflects.

1. My opinion is not ‘wrong’.

2. I’m not getting dragged into another “The way I play is the best” arguments with “DPS is the BEST, ALWAYS” people. High damage is preferred if everyone else in your team is equally capable of running high damage builds and taking care of themselves, splitting the aggro and relying on the intrinsic tools of the class to survive until their aggro window closes. If you team is in need of carry and getting downed, your aggro window gets alot bigger. Bigger aggro durations are not friends of people avoiding defensive stats.

OP, take that for whatever you see value in it. Be aware you aren’t going to always team the most elite players. There is some real metagame considerations you need to make choosing your gear unless you significantly restrict yourself to teaming a select group of people.

Also, LAWL at people telling Brutaly he doesn’t have any idea.

you guys are kinda funny and hate to say it but looking at it to 1 denominational. there is no right answer for what to use or the i win build/ gear. if u want to maximize ur guardian, then be able to swap out ur bar, and gear according to what ur grouped with. example, i carry 2 sets of armor and 3 wep sets, a dps set and tank set, if i have 2 guards / or another war with me then dps cause the spread of heavy armor will keep mobs bouncing around and they can take some of the hits for me.
but if i have only med and cloth armor then i put on the full tank armor, swap my bar to survivable for myself and try to hold all mobs on me allowing the softer armor to avoid the dmg,
in my dps gear my hp are around 14.6k with armor at 2.7k in the tank gear its 17.6k hp with 3.2k armor, and no i am not using knight runes or tank runes at all ;D
but my bar reflects it as well in dps, its SY purge flame, summon spirit sword,
in tank it goes to SY, HtL, SYG or SoA, depending on what mobs and bosses we fight.
so to get the most from ur guard and group learn to be more flexible.
in EQ we use to have a running joke Dead dps = 0 dps. that i have learned is int a joke but a reality of any game. so theirs my 2 cents on this topic for dungeon guards

Uhm idk if it’s been discussed.. But you can be both tanky and supporty and still run full zerker just fine.

Aven.7295:

colesy.8490:

Run full berserker, 0/30/0/30/10.

someone didnt read. thats the guardian dps build

0/30/0/30/10, take full berserker, signet of judgement, perfect inscriptions, writ of exaltation, writ of persistence, pure of voice, and last to tie it all together: Hammer

permanent AoE protection assuming boon duration runes (even better now with the massive symbols), party condition removal, massive % damage reduction, makes zerker look tanky

CptAurellian.9537:

Ah, thanks for remembering lazy people like me and providing numbers, so I don’t need to do it. So, to take your numbers, 3 stacks of EM are a realistic scenario, which would provide 3.5 % more damage at 3000 power (halfway between no buffs and all possible buffs, so probably realistic). However, the EM range is not as tiny as you claim, which means that anyone who knows what he does (= is in melee range) will get it. That 3.5 % group DPS increase can be translated roughly into what would be 17.5 % of your own DPS. I don’t see many traits (except FW, which is another story I’ve already discussed in my previous post) which provide such a boost. Taking Virtues or whatever is not as effective, unless your group already has its 25 might.

Ok so we agree on 3 stacks as a average number from EM.

Now lets break that down. 3 stacks are only true if you have 100% uptime on dps. Any time during an encounter you dont do dps the EM stacks are reduced. So if you have 20% downtime when dodging, being out of range or breaking los the gain from those stacks are reduced with 20%.

The range on em is somewhere 280 and 380 in the tests i made. Only a few encounters supports a team to be gathered so closely and when dodging/breaking los you also in general increase the range from your team, in general being close to the aggro is bad.

I was huge fan of EM as a supportive tool but after we had a discussion in my tpvp team we decided to check out how good it really was so we ran 2 fractal runs. We used a team that had 0 might in it so we could with 100% certainty determine that all the might came from the guardian and EM.

Our conclusions are thakittens highly situational and on some fights we could have 2-3 stacks on the team but in most fights we had less than 1 stack in average.

In average we had about 1 stack running on the team over time. Ofc we arent pro pvers, it was a level 30 run but we did try to play it as EM centric as possible.

Its even worse in Tpvp and the only time i think its worth taking is when you are symbolbombing with 4 frontline pushers in wvw or “maintanking” in melee.

You are overrating the value of that trait just like people overrate the value of selfless daring as a heal, the mediocre range makes them highly situational as a support tool.

with 10 points in virtues you can stack more might per time frame and also faster on the team by just triggering your own firefields with the hammer. 9 stacks from consecrations for 33s.

Btw going into honor makes it possible to have close to 25 stacks of might on the team permanently from the guardian alone with the proper runes.

Honor isnt close to virtues when it comes to support or dps.

So grab the zerker gear add 4*boon duration and two ruby orbs and feat 10/25/x/x/25 and start doing some real support while having decent dps.

Decent is the word since neither your build or mine is max dps.

Actually, in basically every single encounter in the game your team will be grouped together.

Coroner.3168:

Gear

Build
My trait setup is 0/0/30/30/10. To get some nice Healing and Vitality and for “Two-Handed Mastery”. Please note: This is personal preference, don’t judge me, I just like to have a decent health pool. And “Altruïstic Healing”, it is a dungeon build you’re looking for, isn’t it.

This build makes me cry. Poor guardian. Some much potential wasted.

My $.02, if you pug a group, write down the names and if you get kicked for less than full zerker then /ignore them.

First off, full Zerker is doable and preferable if people can stay on their feet. Its not the only way to roll though and other setups are fine if you’re not in a group of kittens. I won’t kick anyone for running any build, but if I see a guardian in back with a staff trying to heal I may put um on my ignore list.

That being said, a fun and tanky build that I’ll run once in a while is 10/30/0/30/0 Hammer with a focus on longer symbols and Protection up-time with runes. You’ll do respectable damage and give all your melee a good amount of protection as long as you keep hitting the target. Supplement this with Omnom Pie and Sigil of Blood for some extra self healing and you can stay on target a good amount of the time. Full PVT will drop your damage output by at least 20% if not 30% compared to full Zerker. With this I will run anywhere from 2 pcs to 6pcs of PVT and the rest is Zerker along with the weapons.

I wonder if we won’t see some changes in PvE that will necessitate nonZerker builds.. Having 8 viable builds where only 1 or 2 are PvE ‘meta viable’ is kind of a waste IMHO.

Blood~

colesy.8490:

Actually, in basically every single encounter in the game your team will be grouped together.

Really i havent seen what implicitely you describe, that 4 players staying in approx 280 range from the guardian for en entire encounter and its not how i run level 40 fractals but om no pve pro

But that wasnt the point, the point is that there are better ways to boost dps and give better support in virtues. Master of consecration and 6-9 stacks from hallowed ground alone is better due to might and stability.

So even with EM hitts 2-3 stack per teammember its not that good compared to virtues.

Scizzor.8137:

This build makes me cry. Poor guardian. Some much potential wasted.

Why? This build suits me perfectly, you might have managed to overlook the gear? How could I’ve maximized this build’s potential?
And as I said: "This is personal preference, don’t judge me … "

EM isnt that great but its not terrible either. Every encounter in organised groups involves stacking up pretty tightly (except legendary imbued shaman). If your going into honor for pure of voice then you may aswell take EM aswell. I would never go into honor just for EM though.

Obtena.7952:

Also, LAWL at people telling Brutaly he doesn’t have any idea.

There are a WHOLE lot of new people on our Guardian forums who really just don’t have a clue.

Amins.3710:

Obtena.7952:

Also, LAWL at people telling Brutaly he doesn’t have any idea.

There are a WHOLE lot of new people on our Guardian forums who really just don’t have a clue.

LOL at people thinking being known means they are always right. I dont know who he is or you for that matter. But im guessing WvW players? If so, you cant really claim to be experts on dungeons or PvE.

spoj.9672:

Amins.3710:

Obtena.7952:

Also, LAWL at people telling Brutaly he doesn’t have any idea.

There are a WHOLE lot of new people on our Guardian forums who really just don’t have a clue.

LOL at people thinking being known means they are always right. I dont know who he is or you for that matter. But im guessing WvW players? If so, you cant really claim to be experts on dungeons or PvE.

Yea, have to agree. Being known by bads isn’t much to brag about.

Anyway, if you want to do max damage on your guard just go 10/25/0/25/10, and since damage is 99% of what you want… yea.

spoj.9672:

Amins.3710:

Obtena.7952:

Also, LAWL at people telling Brutaly he doesn’t have any idea.

There are a WHOLE lot of new people on our Guardian forums who really just don’t have a clue.

LOL at people thinking being known means they are always right. I dont know who he is or you for that matter. But im guessing WvW players? If so, you cant really claim to be experts on dungeons or PvE.

Psst… take a look at the Sticky’s…

It helps to be informed about the people you’re making comments about.

spoj.9672:

Amins.3710:

Obtena.7952:

Also, LAWL at people telling Brutaly he doesn’t have any idea.

There are a WHOLE lot of new people on our Guardian forums who really just don’t have a clue.

LOL at people thinking being known means they are always right. I dont know who he is or you for that matter. But im guessing WvW players? If so, you cant really claim to be experts on dungeons or PvE.

You honestly need to pay attention to what the conversations are before chiming in.. You do it in almost every thread…

Yes, this is a Dungeon thread… but the DISCUSSION… is about Stats and effectiveness.

Do you really believe that changes between PvE/WvW/sPvP? IE: Does the value of Might change between scenario’s?

Brutaly.6257:

Ok so we agree on 3 stacks as a average number from EM.

Now lets break that down. 3 stacks are only true if you have 100% uptime on dps. Any time during an encounter you dont do dps the EM stacks are reduced. So if you have 20% downtime when dodging, being out of range or breaking los the gain from those stacks are reduced with 20%.

The range on em is somewhere 280 and 380 in the tests i made. Only a few encounters supports a team to be gathered so closely and when dodging/breaking los you also in general increase the range from your team, in general being close to the aggro is bad.

[…]

You are overrating the value of that trait just like people overrate the value of selfless daring as a heal, the mediocre range makes them highly situational as a support tool.

with 10 points in virtues you can stack more might per time frame and also faster on the team by just triggering your own firefields with the hammer. 9 stacks from consecrations for 33s.

[…]

Ok, I got curious and checked EM range. You are right, it is depressingly small, much smaller than I remembered. So it is true, I overestimated its effectiveness. However, you are clearly underestimating it, since most encounters either at least allow or even favor group stacking. So unless you are alone in a ~300 radius, which will be the case rather rarely, Honor is at least as strong as anything Virtues has to offer beyond the first 10 points (which one can, and depending on the target instance should, easily take anyway).

Virtues offers much more dps further down the line if you take up burning and Power of Virtuous – vs Honor, espcially if you’re using a sword…. Assuming burn isn’t being permanently put on by another class.

Beside the weakness you already mentioned, burning has others: First, the Virtues traits don’t provide much benefit against single targets, second the traits don’t affect the VoJ active iirc, and third, burning itself is pretty weak when running a DPS build. So that’s much more situational than EM.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Anyway, if you want to do max damage on your guard just go 10/25/0/25/10, and since damage is 99% of what you want… yea.

The only setup that even can be considered a max dps build with your trait distribution is when you play solely with hammer and spam skill one and use symbol traits. Which is fail to begin with since you absolutely need to swap weapons and use cooldowns to perform max dps and gs being the main secondary with suitable cooldowns. The exception might be if you run with 1h sword and spam the chain but i suspect swapping to scepter is max and swap back after two smites. But then RHS should be traited.

With all other weapons that isnt a max dps build.

Any build with points in valor isnt a max dps build.

@CptAurellian
Frankly i made testruns and watched clips for hours. I had the exact same impression as you regarding its strength but after doing tests with my team i just never use it, not even in my wvw AH build.

It takes 20-30 minutes and a couple of hours of watching clips and i honestly suggest you use that time if you have doubts in what im writing.

Same goes for elusive power and also why im not a fan of selfless daring. Elusive power is as the name says elusive and selfless daring is more of a selfish daring.

I do agree that burning is very situational and its aoe. The real killer in virtues imo is power of the virtues.

That is a multiplicative damage booster and with 25 points in virtues you can keep at least 4 boons up at all times on your own and if you add the team you have 7-8 boons at all times.

Brutaly.6257:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Anyway, if you want to do max damage on your guard just go 10/25/0/25/10, and since damage is 99% of what you want… yea.

With all other weapons that isnt a max dps build.

Any build with points in valor isnt a max dps build.

Have a look at the traits again buddy pal. Flat damage modifiers are > +% cc and Zeal doesn’t have anything going for it. Those points are also in Honor, not valor.

Sword/Focus + GS swap (generally just used to burst with then back to Sword for superior Auto attack)

typo meant honor.

Elusive power sucks big time since you need to dodge (loose dps) in order to gain dps. A dodge takes approx 1s to do and after that you need to get in range/position so in reality you loose more than 20% dps by dodging.

And due to constant vigor from crits you need to dodge every 5th second to trigger elusive power.

The only time you can speak of any gain of dps is when you facetank and dodge every 5s and use a hammer with 2h mastery so you can dodge every chain and bounce back in with mb. But that isnt top dps to begin with since spamming the chain with traited symbols is higher with the hammer.

In a dps build the idea is to share aggro so bsically you have aggro 20% of the time and the dps gain will be achieved during that time.

The gain from elusive power is just tiny.

What it is is a interesting feat for max bursting which is important in wvw/pvp but in pve its weak.

I think to many look at buildcrafts effective power and actually believe that elusive power adds a straight 10% when the reality is closer to 2%