Guild Wars 2

I feel guardians are underpowered for this area. To make a decent build you have to sacrifice the shout mobilities in order to be hard enough to duel. Staff guardians were created with support in mind. Guardians need a forth virtue what can be triggered lower than resolve/aegis what teleports to he target something like virtue of intervention. Guardians have none increased movement speed trait as of this moment. I run a fairly if not most mobile build but it comes up short constantly in duels or 1v1. I find myself chasing as I use sword and shield I have stun breakers but the imbolization we have is far to short for what we deal with. Guardians are one of the most pvp underpowered classes in the game.
Discuss

Warriors said hi.

Lol nice reply.

Liu.4751:

Guardians are one of the most pvp underpowered classes in the game.

You win.

Actually, guardian is one of the strongest class in sPvP and quite balanced in WvW, maybe you should try another build.

Delete Warrior and make us all guardians after this change please.

I love my Guardian and I can live with the lack of mobility in comparison to other classes. You can’t be equal or excel in every area.

Having said that, fix the bug that prevents stacking of Symbol of Swiftness meh

stemare.2578:

Liu.4751:

Guardians are one of the most pvp underpowered classes in the game.

You win.

Actually, guardian is one of the strongest class in sPvP and quite balanced in WvW, maybe you should try another build.

But I explained why guardiands are the most underpowered class because of mobility or maybe ranged is just broken I don know but you seem to think a full zerker gunho great sword build is somehow a good build. Anet put full zerker builds for pvp and fun and easiness of making them work. I beat great sword guardians no problem same with hammer the reason being is because they have no mobility and don’t lap any conditions on. So your gonna have to explain why guardians are the strongest class in pvp in aspect compared to other classes seeming you are showing you know what this is.

Liu.4751:

stemare.2578:

Liu.4751:

Guardians are one of the most pvp underpowered classes in the game.

You win.

Actually, guardian is one of the strongest class in sPvP and quite balanced in WvW, maybe you should try another build.

But I explained why guardiands are the most underpowered class because of mobility or maybe ranged is just broken I don know but you seem to think a full zerker gunho great sword build is somehow a good build. Anet put full zerker builds for pvp and fun and easiness of making them work. I beat great sword guardians no problem same with hammer the reason being is because they have no mobility and don’t lap any conditions on. So your gonna have to explain why guardians are the strongest class in pvp in aspect compared to other classes seeming you are showing you know what this is.

I will let someone else take the spvp part. Hint though it’s mostly because we can bunker well, though we don’t supply the kill pressure of some bunkers.

As for the part about dueling, well I know a little bit about that. Your lack of mobility can be made up for, but it does require changes to your build. You haven’t posted what build you use, so I don’t think any of us can make suggestions. We are balanced though.

I would suggest using terrain to your advantage, and consider using the mobility abilities you have access to. The build I run has a leap on gs, a teleport on sword, and a teleport on JI. If you need to you can always equip a hydromancy. Are there more mobile classes, absolutely. Consider why you need the mobility though. If it’s to run away, well there is either a problem with the build or the player. If you need mobility to chase it’s because you’ve already won. I hope you won’t take that as me being mean, or disrespectful, I’m just trying to explain why I feel the way I do.

Today I’ve gotten several kills by hiding out of los, then going in with JI (36 second cd). I think if I might make a suggestion, lose the shield. It’s crap. I know there are some builds that use it, but imo if you are dueling you are far better off using a focus. For a burst precast 5, then switch to gs, hit gs2/ji at the same time. You will catch them completely by surprise most of the time and unload a ton of damage. From there you have a leap (they will almost always try to run). Just stick to them. It’s rough I know, but it’s also the price you pay to play guardian.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Liu.4751:

stemare.2578:

Liu.4751:

Guardians are one of the most pvp underpowered classes in the game.

You win.

Actually, guardian is one of the strongest class in sPvP and quite balanced in WvW, maybe you should try another build.

But I explained why guardiands are the most underpowered class because of mobility or maybe ranged is just broken I don know but you seem to think a full zerker gunho great sword build is somehow a good build. Anet put full zerker builds for pvp and fun and easiness of making them work. I beat great sword guardians no problem same with hammer the reason being is because they have no mobility and don’t lap any conditions on. So your gonna have to explain why guardians are the strongest class in pvp in aspect compared to other classes seeming you are showing you know what this is.

I will let someone else take the spvp part. Hint though it’s mostly because we can bunker well, though we don’t supply the kill pressure of some bunkers.

As for the part about dueling, well I know a little bit about that. Your lack of mobility can be made up for, but it does require changes to your build. You haven’t posted what build you use, so I don’t think any of us can make suggestions. We are balanced though.

I would suggest using terrain to your advantage, and consider using the mobility abilities you have access to. The build I run has a leap on gs, a teleport on sword, and a teleport on JI. If you need to you can always equip a hydromancy. Are there more mobile classes, absolutely. Consider why you need the mobility though. If it’s to run away, well there is either a problem with the build or the player. If you need mobility to chase it’s because you’ve already won. I hope you won’t take that as me being mean, or disrespectful, I’m just trying to explain why I feel the way I do.

Today I’ve gotten several kills by hiding out of los, then going in with JI (36 second cd). I think if I might make a suggestion, lose the shield. It’s crap. I know there are some builds that use it, but imo if you are dueling you are far better off using a focus. For a burst precast 5, then switch to gs, hit gs2/ji at the same time. You will catch them completely by surprise most of the time and unload a ton of damage. From there you have a leap (they will almost always try to run). Just stick to them. It’s rough I know, but it’s also the price you pay to play guardian.

No the running is easy. I found that out today that bunkering is the only viable not to look like you don’t know what your doing.

Weapons:
Sword(Sigil of purity 60% critical remove condition) Shield(Sigil Of nullification remove boon)

Scepter(Sigil of purity 60% critical remove condtion) Shield(Sigil Of nulifcation remove boon)

Skills:
Healing: Signet of Resolve
Utility: Sword of Justice, Judges intervention, Signet of Judgement. Renewed Focused.

Stats:
Attack : 2650
Precision: 25%
Toughness: 3150
Vitality: 16500
Condtion Damge: 125
Healing: 150
Boon duration: 20%

Traits:
0
10(II)
30(I, V, IX)
10(I)
20(V, IX)
I change the trait bonuses a tiny amount around sometimes not to a huge effect I’m trying to get it right

Sigils:
6 Runes of the guardian

People just don’t know how to move around as Guardians.

i feel the Guardian has more than a handful “viable” builds in sPvP, let alone open world PvE and WvW. i won’t say i’m a great player, but i enjoy bunker the least, and feel more successful with other builds – which do allow me to be quite mobile as a Guardian.

that being said, of course we will be outmaneuvered by other classes. at the same time, we can do other things better. i feel we’re quite “balanced” at the moment actually. nothing that’s cheese. nothing’s that’s OP. nothing entirely broken either or useless.

the idea for a 4th Virtue is interesting. and one for mobility at that. though i don’t feel the Guardians are in a bad place at all in terms of PvP/WvW.\

on the side, why take double shield? mainly because the skill CDs are shared and focus can offer some utility as well.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

People just don’t know how to move around as Guardians.

But what else can wedo when decreased combat speed and you use 2/3. Of the only fast mobility skill a guardian has

akamon.2769:

i feel the Guardian has more than a handful “viable” builds in sPvP, let alone open world PvE and WvW. i won’t say i’m a great player, but i enjoy bunker the least, and feel more successful with other builds – which do allow me to be quite mobile as a Guardian.

that being said, of course we will be outmaneuvered by other classes. at the same time, we can do other things better. i feel we’re quite “balanced” at the moment actually. nothing that’s cheese. nothing’s that’s OP. nothing entirely broken either or useless.

the idea for a 4th Virtue is interesting. and one for mobility at that. though i don’t feel the Guardians are in a bad place at all in terms of PvP/WvW.\

on the side, why take double shield? mainly because the skill CDs are shared and focus can offer some utility as well.

But why should players be forced to have a weapon they don’t wish or suit a build because the other one is considered useless. I’m tried of guardians run around spinning a great sword because fact is I’m better than them because they lack mobility. Ante didn’t create a weapon to be thrown in the trash as useless or this or that only it’s about wisdom to use them correctly rather just swapping for the almighty gs and time to prance around.

Liu.4751:

Healing: Signet of Resolve
Utility: Sword of Justice, Judges intervention, Signet of Judgement. Renewed Focused.

Stats:
Attack : 2650
Precision: 25%
Toughness: 3150
Vitality: 16500
Condtion Damge: 125
Healing: 150
Boon duration: 20%

Traits:
0
10(II)
30(I, V, IX)
10(I)
20(V, IX)
Sigils:
6 Runes of the guardian

1. Skip resolve and use shelter instead, huge blocker in 1 on 1 and also build might stacks. Resolve is only good for passive condi removal so you can use your team wide condiremovals for the team, which you have none.

2. Those stats are really on the low side. What gear do you run?

3. Why rune of the guardian? With only 10 points in honor you should have precisely 0 healing power since you dont have heal on dodge.

4. Tbh that build looks really weird for a wvw build imo. What do you play mainly, solo, small groups or zergs?

5 Have you considered sigil of generosity? Check what they do and compare with purity. Just saying

On topic. We dont need more mobility, we have almost everything else.

Btw we have no bad weapons either, just weapons that isnt suited for the individual. Shield rocks if its used properly.

I am torn on the whole mobility issue honestly. We have a decent amount but the issue is you have to stack a fair amount of mobility + CC to keep much near us in WvW (spvp should not be an issue for guardians, ever) JI is amazing, GS leep is decent, when also paired with binding blades, Sword leap however i feel is lack luster, as anything with swiftness on is just going to outrun you due to the animation of it.

What honestly decides our mobility though, is condition removal, and being able to stay clear of chill/cripple. I personally run hoelbrak runes, condition duration reduction food, and Pure of voice, along with retreat to make sure I can get swiftness and keep CCs off me to keep up with the faster classes.

Also, two hand mastery with GS/Hammer is extremely good for keeping up with people with reduced cds on a gap closer, a pull, an immobilize, and Ring of Warding.

Just keep in mind, that there are still classes that you are never going to catch if they dedicate themselves to getting away, such as GS warrior, Thief, and most Eles. Engineers can also be an issue as well, just because the amount of lock down they can have.

Brutaly.6257:

Shield rocks if its used properly.

You are right, I should have said it’s crap for me. That’s just my play style/build though. I’ve seen videos of guys that are great with it. I should have worded that better. I guess I’ve had a bad impression of shield since I first started. I wanted so bad to run a paladin holy knight style with a sword/shield. Then I realized that the focus has what seems like a shield skill. It was what I was looking for.

He seems to be asking about dueling, or small fights. I just can’t seem to see shields working well. Of course that might be because I play a heavy burst style.

Brutaly.6257:

Liu.4751:

Healing: Signet of Resolve
Utility: Sword of Justice, Judges intervention, Signet of Judgement. Renewed Focused.

Stats:
Attack : 2650
Precision: 25%
Toughness: 3150
Vitality: 16500
Condtion Damge: 125
Healing: 150
Boon duration: 20%

Traits:
0
10(II)
30(I, V, IX)
10(I)
20(V, IX)
Sigils:
6 Runes of the guardian

1. Skip resolve and use shelter instead, huge blocker in 1 on 1 and also build might stacks. Resolve is only good for passive condi removal so you can use your team wide condiremovals for the team, which you have none.

2. Those stats are really on the low side. What gear do you run?

3. Why rune of the guardian? With only 10 points in honor you should have precisely 0 healing power since you dont have heal on dodge.

4. Tbh that build looks really weird for a wvw build imo. What do you play mainly, solo, small groups or zergs?

5 Have you considered sigil of generosity? Check what they do and compare with purity. Just saying

On topic. We dont need more mobility, we have almost everything else.

Btw we have no bad weapons either, just weapons that isnt suited for the individual. Shield rocks if its used properly.

You seem to think I trying run a wvw mindnumbing build I don’t this is for pve pvp and spvp and works in wvw decently for non support play.

1. It’s not worth getting half the heal for maybe 1 block especially if i may not be in combat or being attacked at that moment. For an extra 2 seconds cool down and quicker cast time and passive condition removal what I don’t rely on much it’s a much safe bet for twice the heal. Especially if i have over 3100k armour toughness. and plenty of other condition removals to handle any lingering ccs.

3. U don’t go 30 30 20 all the time it’s a horrible imbalance to the stability of a build. it gives me that extra buff in healing power to make resolve a near 9k heal and added toughness for the melee and hard hitters.

4. well you assumed it is wow, but’s not a zerg group build. Well zerging, hasn’t much too it, you can’t see much let alone worry about dealing of taking damage it’s just a game of number skill.

5. I have but it’s quite pricey I may try it in. It’s only remove one condition but if it’s just a transfer and i don’t have huge condition damage molbiltyi is more more problem.

Bash.7291:

I am torn on the whole mobility issue honestly. We have a decent amount but the issue is you have to stack a fair amount of mobility + CC to keep much near us in WvW (spvp should not be an issue for guardians, ever) JI is amazing, GS leep is decent, when also paired with binding blades, Sword leap however i feel is lack luster, as anything with swiftness on is just going to outrun you due to the animation of it.

What honestly decides our mobility though, is condition removal, and being able to stay clear of chill/cripple. I personally run hoelbrak runes, condition duration reduction food, and Pure of voice, along with retreat to make sure I can get swiftness and keep CCs off me to keep up with the faster classes.

Also, two hand mastery with GS/Hammer is extremely good for keeping up with people with reduced cds on a gap closer, a pull, an immobilize, and Ring of Warding.

Just keep in mind, that there are still classes that you are never going to catch if they dedicate themselves to getting away, such as GS warrior, Thief, and most Eles. Engineers can also be an issue as well, just because the amount of lock down they can have.

Sword Skill number 3 is useless. It need a seriosu buff it’s a nifty skill but only useful against players who stand there at range not moving otherwise it just loose range and u’d be left stuck.

Shield skill 4 needs to block attacks upon hit it would make sense for a shield to be able to block attack while casting and the protection needs to be buffed to longer duration at baseline.
Shield skill 5 should be a none entering bubble. It doesn’t seem right that a foe cant shoot a bullet through it but can walk into it casually and stop whacking u with a hammer.

Judges intervention needs some kind of immobilising upon teleporting. Otherwise it’s 40cd for a teleport and maybe 3 max, hits before your opponent is off running away again.

Our immobilisation has to be more chains of light is a good idea but 2seconds imob is not long enough it should be 5 to 6 seconds long making anyone come across a scepter to think twice before running around like a luny. ( Immob should be increased profession wide as engineers gunk should immobilise you while your in it and a short cripple recovery afterwards.

And we need a 4th virtue what breaks stun and can teleport/immobilise I’ve seen many players just be able to run away if they stay melee their good as done.

Guardians are great in almost all aspects of the game in any game type. Giving them mobility on top of everything else they are capable of would be a slap in the face to all other classes. Your mild weakness is mobility and you have options. It’s not the devs fault you play something different or don’t choose those utilities.

What you’re asking would push the guardian class even higher on the totem pole when it’s, if not already, at the top. Be content that you have great options in everything else; damage, sustain, mitigation, healing, boons, group support/utility, and the ability to bunker.

Liu.4751:

the imbolization we have is far to short for what we deal with

Most immobilization skills last 2 seconds, excluding Necro Dagger and Warrior Sword Burst, so you cant say that Guardians are worst because of that

And they are just really strong. Guardians can take a lot of damage, while summoning symbols that give AoE boon, free burn, heal, and aegis. Excelent utility skills, it’s a shame that you can only use 3, because they are all great
They had to have a weakness, and that’s the mobility, but you can still use an AoE symbol to get speed, or a Sword/Hammer gap closer

You know what.

I’m just going to agree with every thread out there that suggests we need more cool stuff.

I’m greedy.

Blasino.3128:

You know what.

I’m just going to agree with every thread out there that suggests we need more cool stuff.

I’m greedy.

Can we get your support on the warrior forums? Thanks

@blasino lol I think the only class that really needs that type of attitude is ranger atm. Poor guys keep getting hit hard to the point of only being decent in spvp.

@liu
As far as using sword #3, and I do not like to say this often, is a L2P issue. You use it paired with an immobilize, ring of warding or just when the enemy is straight up in your face, not when chasing or trying to hit someone at mac range.

As far as an immobilize buff… No. 5 seconds of sitting still is way to strong in a game dedicated to movement and evading attacks. There is a reason there is added condition duration in this game, and you have to sacrifice things to get to it, because it can be powerful.

For judges intervention once again, no. It is literally the best gap closer in the game. Instant cast, does damage, burns, can be used to reach people at higher heights as long you can take a walking path to get there, (love teleporting onto people at the entrance to vale.) and the biggest thing is that it does not interupt skill use, meaning you can pre cast zealots defense or ring of warding, use JI and land right ontop of them as the skill activates.

Once again, there are options out there to help our mobility, you just have to use a decet amount of them to keep up with people sadly.

guardians don’t need mobility!
we have swiftness (perma with the right build), teleports (sword and meditation) leaps (gs, hammer), immobilize (scepter) and CC (GS, hammer, scepter etc.).
Maybe we need … another virtue for cripple or chilly … would be wonderfull a virtue that causes aoe chilly when activated

Bash.7291:

@blasino lol I think the only class that really needs that type of attitude is ranger atm. Poor guys keep getting hit hard to the point of only being decent in spvp.

@liu
As far as using sword #3, and I do not like to say this often, is a L2P issue. You use it paired with an immobilize, ring of warding or just when the enemy is straight up in your face, not when chasing or trying to hit someone at mac range.

more stuff

I was gonna go with a L2P comment instead of what I wrote. But you did it instead!

Yeah poor rangers indeed. I don’t know how I haven’t deleted mine yet. Every time I see her on my longon screen I think in my head, “You are taking up a precious character slot…”

I think the OP should read your post carefully Bash. I’m getting the sense that he/she doesn’t understand how some of the skills work. Zealots Defense is a great skill. It can be used offensively, or defensively. Learning when, and how to use it will make life so much easier.

I agree with pretty much everything above. The buff suggest for imobi would make it way too strong. Combat is about movement, if you don’t like movement I suggest going with something like a warrior going for a gs burst build. It’s easy to setup,, and it’s easy to pull off huge numbers. They also pay a price for their strengths though, so don’t expect to suddenly burst people down unless they are bad. (one of the funniest kills I’ve gotten so far is a warrior charging me, I used sword 2. LOL that was great)

Guardians are great in almost all aspects of the game in any game type. Giving them mobility on top of everything else they are capable of would be a slap in the face to all other classes.
snip.

I had to address this because I also play a warrior. I don’t like it nearly as much as a guardian because I feel the combat with a guardian is much more fluid and involved. You are welcome to verify it with my screenshot above showing my 80 warrior.

Giving guardians the option to have a passive movement speed increase at the cost of either a utility slot, or a trait slot (you know the same thing that every single other profession except guardian has) would not be a “slap in the face”. It would be the same thing as it is with all other classes. It would be a choice of sacrifice vs gain. THAT is what is important. Giving something without sacrifice I feel is what ruins a profession, and it’s what ruins balance. If you scroll through my posts here you will find that I do not agree that guardians are under powered, or weak, or any such nonsense so it isn’t me QQing for some buff just to be stronger.

However mobility is not a MILD weakness at all. In fact I would say that a lack of mobility is the greatest weakness a profession can have. We do have ways to build around it, but that isn’t just sacrifice for gain. It’s sacrifice for what other professions have baked into their kits. That removes the idea of sacrifice for gain, and instead makes it just a bonus.

In SPvP, and TPvP guardians are not the “top”. They are viable, unfortunately most of their viability comes from passive game play. It works so that you actually want to avoid contact with the enemy, and that seems really counter to the idea of what PvP is even about. As things stand right now there are simply better bunker builds available to other professions that not only bunker better, but offer higher kill pressure. Does this mean a guardian is “bad”, not at all. It simply means that the place of a guardian right now is changing, and that is good. It means our profession is in the process of evolution.

Be content that you have great options in everything else; damage, sustain, mitigation, healing, boons, group support/utility, and the ability to bunker.

This part is annoying to me though. You are basically combining every aspect of a class and saying “well you have access to it if you build that way, so you always have access to it.” That isn’t even close to accurate. It would be similar to me saying “well warriors have access to huge burst, massive cc, immunity to damage on a non elite, fury, condition removal, banners giving boons, a war banner that resurrects people, and passive boosts through signets while having condition damage, plenty of blocks, great stuns, and of course 100b spam.”

The reality of course is that you would need to spec for a few of those things, you don’t get all of them at once.

I’m sorry that my post was so long, but I wanted to reply to your post specifically because I feel it’s extremely biased. If it helps I think warriors are in a similar spot to guardians. They don’t have a good “place” in spvp/tpvp right now (just my opinion). Are they useless? No, but that’s because right now everything a warrior could do in those areas another profession can usually do better while bringing more to the group.

Again all of this is my opinion. Thank you for reading.

But why should players be forced to have a weapon they don’t wish or suit a build because the other one is considered useless.

That’s just how things are. If you want to just run whatever you can probably get away with it in PvE. In PvP, or WvW if you want to win duels, or just help your team the best, then you have to conform to what is viable at the time.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

Blasino.3128:

You know what.

I’m just going to agree with every thread out there that suggests we need more cool stuff.

I’m greedy.

Can we get your support on the warrior forums? Thanks

NERF warriors!

Why do people think you should be able to do everything with any weapon?

If you want to do well in multiple areas, you’re going to have to try and open your mind to other ways of playing and, more importantly, other weapons and traits. Our mobility is balanced by our outstanding survival ability, but that isn’t to say we’re “slow.” We’re just a bit slower than some others. That said, our combat mobility is pretty excellent.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

But why should players be forced to have a weapon they don’t wish or suit a build because the other one is considered useless.

That’s just how things are. If you want to just run whatever you can probably get away with it in PvE. In PvP, or WvW if you want to win duels, or just help your team the best, then you have to conform to what is viable at the time.

No you win duels by doing builds you enjoy using. I didn’t see i wanted a pve build my goal was to beat other people in a 1v1 scenario to test it there.

Why do people think you should be able to do everything with any weapon?
If you want to do well in multiple areas, you’re going to have to try and open your mind to other ways of playing and, more importantly, other weapons and traits. Our mobility is balanced by our outstanding survival ability, but that isn’t to say we’re “slow.” We’re just a bit slower than some others. That said, our combat mobility is pretty excellent.

You can do anything you want with any weapon you want and everything meaning win a duel and survive pie and wvw encounters. You sound like a annoyed gs guardian maybe hammer.

Oh yes. I’m livid. Also quite stuck in my GS ways, of course.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Oh yes. I’m livid. Also quite stuck in my GS ways, of course.

Here, here. You’re gonna have to pry the handle out of my hands after I’m dead before I let go of mine.

That being said, we don’t need more mobility. We need more ways to keep our targets in combat.

You can build for mobility at the expense of other things. Same as any other class.

Kjeldoran.3849:

guardians don’t need mobility!
we have swiftness (perma with the right build)

Here’s why you’re wrong. You’d need to spam SY, Retreat, and Staff 3 on CD with a boon-duration set in order to perma-maintain swiftness. That’s two utilities and a ghetto solo-roaming weapon that you NEED to bring if you want to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time in WvW. I agree 100% that our in-combat mobility is very good. However, our movespeed needs to be worked on.

My favourite solution would be taking Signet of Wrath, dropping the condition damage (because who honestly uses, or has ever used, condi) and turn it into a 25% movement speed increase.

Boonprot.6274:

turn it into a 25% movement speed increase.

Which would mean that all speed signets could be removed from the game if everyone has them.

Has it occured that anet might have an intention with guardians and that they have to invest heavily in gear and food to have 100% uptime on swiftness even though we infact can have 100% uptime with no staff and 0 points in virtues.

Liu.4751:

But I explained why guardians are the most underpowered class because of mobility ….

Maybe you did. That doesn’t mean you are right. I know very capable PVP Guardians … they don’t complain about mobility. Obviously what you think and the practical experience of good PVP Guardians has a disconnect somewhere. Seems to me it’s a L2P thing.

Brutaly.6257:

Boonprot.6274:

turn it into a 25% movement speed increase.

Which would mean that all speed signets could be removed from the game if everyone has them.

Has it occured that anet might have an intention with guardians and that they have to invest heavily in gear and food to have 100% uptime on swiftness even though we infact can have 100% uptime with no staff and 0 points in virtues.

Warrior doesn’t have one, they get a trait for +25% movement speed with a melee weapon. Engineer don’t have signets, but they get a trait to give themselves permanent (unkitten on stripped, which then they are, will have to trudge around for 5 seconds before reapplying) swiftness, they also have that weird +25% move speed in combat trait. Mesmers don’t have a speed signet or trait. So no, not every class has a movement signet. And if they did, it would still be a choice on whether to pack it in combat for its active or not. Movement + immobilize sounds like a very sexy signet. Much better than the +45/s burning damage signet we have now. I guess it could also increase other conditions we could apply through combo fields or sigils, but that would be negligible. That signet is taken exclusively for its active.

No, Guardians are meant to be slow. That’s why we pack a punch and are really though.

Xhyros.1340:

Brutaly.6257:

Boonprot.6274:

turn it into a 25% movement speed increase.

Which would mean that all speed signets could be removed from the game if everyone has them.

Has it occured that anet might have an intention with guardians and that they have to invest heavily in gear and food to have 100% uptime on swiftness even though we infact can have 100% uptime with no staff and 0 points in virtues.

Warrior doesn’t have one, they get a trait for +25% movement speed with a melee weapon. Engineer don’t have signets, but they get a trait to give themselves permanent (unkitten on stripped, which then they are, will have to trudge around for 5 seconds before reapplying) swiftness, they also have that weird +25% move speed in combat trait. Mesmers don’t have a speed signet or trait. So no, not every class has a movement signet. And if they did, it would still be a choice on whether to pack it in combat for its active or not. Movement + immobilize sounds like a very sexy signet. Much better than the +45/s burning damage signet we have now. I guess it could also increase other conditions we could apply through combo fields or sigils, but that would be negligible. That signet is taken exclusively for its active.

You are right, I completely forgot about mesmers. SO basically you have two professions without a passive speed increase in pve. They could just as easily remove the target requirement from sword 2, and that would be fine as it is.

I just feel like the OP doesn’t get it. YOu have good pvp guardians standing here telling yout hat you are wrong. There are videos all over this forum. We (as a profession) are balanced in combat. We can build to counter things, and in doing so it opens us up to others. Do I think every profession is balanced? Not at all, that is painfully obvious. I’m not going to complain though and say X class is op. Say what can I do better? The only “mobility” increase guardians could use is a passive out of combat movement speed. That would be great. In combat we are fine, and as the game gets more balanced Guardians role will really stand out.

It irritates me when people say that Guardian has permanent swiftness. The only way this is possible is if you go 70%+ boon duration and use Save Yourselves and Retreat, spamming them as soon as they come off cooldown. That’s very limiting.

Xhyros.1340:

Brutaly.6257:

Boonprot.6274:

turn it into a 25% movement speed increase.

Which would mean that all speed signets could be removed from the game if everyone has them.

Has it occured that anet might have an intention with guardians and that they have to invest heavily in gear and food to have 100% uptime on swiftness even though we infact can have 100% uptime with no staff and 0 points in virtues.

So no, not every class has a movement signet.

Which wasnt my point. My point was that if guardians should have a perma swiftness thru a signet the same arguement applies to all professions and if all or most get it they can just remove it. Its actually differences in professions that make people to have prefered chars.

I prefer my heavy god kitten slow guardian.

I realize it maybe was a bit unlclear but in the last paragraph in my post i tried to outline an argument that the reason why they allow guardians to be so strong, which we are, is that we infact has to invest in swiftness to get it.

It irritates me when people say that Guardian has permanent swiftness. The only way this is possible is if you go 70%+ boon duration and use Save Yourselves and Retreat, spamming them as soon as they come off cooldown. That’s very limiting.

with 60% boon duration i have 48s duration, and 48s cd on SY and retereat. If you go with staff you have about 6-7 minutes of 100% uptime on swiftness for the entire team. After that you need to take a break for like 10s.

You need 10 points in virtues and 10 points in honor to achieve it, the rest is runes and food.

If you use staff you will get permaswiftness with about 20% boonduration which requires 10 points in honor and 4 runes.

A warrior has to sacrifice more then that tbh. 30 points in boonduration and an additional 20 points, if memory serves me right, to get decreased cd on signets. And its not teamwide.

Brutaly.6257:

Xhyros.1340:

Brutaly.6257:

Boonprot.6274:

turn it into a 25% movement speed increase.

Which would mean that all speed signets could be removed from the game if everyone has them.

Has it occured that anet might have an intention with guardians and that they have to invest heavily in gear and food to have 100% uptime on swiftness even though we infact can have 100% uptime with no staff and 0 points in virtues.

So no, not every class has a movement signet.

Which wasnt my point. My point was that if guardians should have a perma swiftness thru a signet the same arguement applies to all professions and if all or most get it they can just remove it. Its actually differences in professions that make people to have prefered chars.

I prefer my heavy god kitten slow guardian.

I realize it maybe was a bit unlclear but in the last paragraph in my post i tried to outline an argument that the reason why they allow guardians to be so strong, which we are, is that we infact has to invest in swiftness to get it.

It irritates me when people say that Guardian has permanent swiftness. The only way this is possible is if you go 70%+ boon duration and use Save Yourselves and Retreat, spamming them as soon as they come off cooldown. That’s very limiting.

with 60% boon duration i have 48s duration, and 48s cd on SY and retereat. If you go with staff you have about 6-7 minutes of 100% uptime on swiftness for the entire team. After that you need to take a break for like 10s.

You need 10 points in virtues and 10 points in honor to achieve it, the rest is runes and food.

If you use staff you will get permaswiftness with about 20% boonduration which requires 10 points in honor and 4 runes.

A warrior has to sacrifice more then that tbh. 30 points in boonduration and an additional 20 points, if memory serves me right, to get decreased cd on signets. And its not teamwide.

Warriors also get 25% passive speed boost for 10 points in Discipline. Which is a pretty good tree. I get that wasn’t your point, but I didn’t know if you knew about it. To be fair I’m not a fan of comparing professions, because like you pointed out you have to look at their kits and what’s required of them to achieve certain things. I think what people mostly want from guardian is a viable option to achieve the 25% passive movement bonus.

I think it would be nice, but to say we are under powered because we lack that is wrong though.

To answer that I can say that I play warrior, ranger, thief and necro in wvw and I do understand why they have their buffs and guardians dont.

Brutaly.6257:

Yaki.9563:

It irritates me when people say that Guardian has permanent swiftness. The only way this is possible is if you go 70%+ boon duration and use Save Yourselves and Retreat, spamming them as soon as they come off cooldown. That’s very limiting.

with 60% boon duration i have 48s duration, and 48s cd on SY and retereat. If you go with staff you have about 6-7 minutes of 100% uptime on swiftness for the entire team. After that you need to take a break for like 10s.

It’s impossible to hit those two skills at the exact moment they come off cooldown even the tiniest delay means you will lose swiftness uptime. That’s why I said 70%. Even then, you are constantly having to monitor those 2 skills which is a seriously crappy quality of life issue.

Staff doesn’t provide permanent swiftness even with 300% boon duration because it doesn’t even overwrite itself. Say you run over the symbol with 1s duration remaining, now you have 2s after you leave symbol. That doesn’t work well. Or you could wait till your duration runs out before running over it, then that’s not 100% uptime either. And good luck coordinating that with a group trying to run over it, especially with the known issue of missing pulses.

You need 10 points in virtues and 10 points in honor to achieve it, the rest is runes and food.

That’s a lot to give up. No soldier’s runes, no melandru runes, etc. Same with food, there are better choices for unless you’re specifically going for some kind of boon duration/support build.

A warrior has to sacrifice more then that tbh. 30 points in boonduration and an additional 20 points, if memory serves me right, to get decreased cd on signets. And its not teamwide.

Warhorn gives 10s swiftness with 20s cooldown. You don’t need any boon duration at all to combine this with elite signet for permanent swiftness. With the warhorn trait reducing cooldown to 16s, the same trait line giving 30% boon duration means you only need to find another ~40% boon duration to give your entire group actual (not fake like staff) permanent swiftness (and this isn’t even counting your own personal swiftness from the signet…you end up with swiftness duration in minutes+). Though for warriors, boon duration runes and food are not really ideal for any build. But still, this stacks fully with other swiftness boons (unlike staff) so it’s vastly more useful in practice.

I’m far more concerned about keeping people from running away than running away from people.

Has anyone suggested stealth for guardians yet? If not…

Yaki.9563:

It’s impossible to hit those two skills at the exact moment they come off cooldown even the tiniest delay means you will lose swiftness uptime. That’s why I said 70%. Even then, you are constantly having to monitor those 2 skills which is a seriously crappy quality of life issue.

Oh no! .25 seconds of not having swiftness!!! The world will end because you failed to keep it exactly 100% up all the time! seriously, if you can keep it up pretty much 99.9999999% of the time, its perma.

Bash.7291:

Yaki.9563:

It’s impossible to hit those two skills at the exact moment they come off cooldown even the tiniest delay means you will lose swiftness uptime. That’s why I said 70%. Even then, you are constantly having to monitor those 2 skills which is a seriously crappy quality of life issue.

Oh no! .25 seconds of not having swiftness!!! The world will end because you failed to keep it exactly 100% up all the time! seriously, if you can keep it up pretty much 99.9999999% of the time, its perma.

.25 seconds every 48s is only 99.5% of the time. So I guess it’s not perma.

And don’t forget, you need to spam the heck out of that stuff because if you aren’t paying attention to the exact cooldown you’re going to get far more than 0.25s of no swiftness. In addition, entering a fight with two of your skills on cooldown to maintain this “permanent” swiftness seems a good way to suck.

Yaki.9563:

Bash.7291:

Yaki.9563:

It’s impossible to hit those two skills at the exact moment they come off cooldown even the tiniest delay means you will lose swiftness uptime. That’s why I said 70%. Even then, you are constantly having to monitor those 2 skills which is a seriously crappy quality of life issue.

Oh no! .25 seconds of not having swiftness!!! The world will end because you failed to keep it exactly 100% up all the time! seriously, if you can keep it up pretty much 99.9999999% of the time, its perma.

.25 seconds every 48s is only 99.5% of the time. So I guess it’s not perma.

And don’t forget, you need to spam the heck out of that stuff because if you aren’t paying attention to the exact cooldown you’re going to get far more than 0.25s of no swiftness. In addition, entering a fight with two of your skills on cooldown to maintain this “permanent” swiftness seems a good way to suck.

Then why does it matter to you so badly if its perma or not? I could care less since trying to get “perma” swiftness is stupid in T1 since its all zerg fights and if you dont have 1+ mins of swiftness from the zerg alone you are doing something wrong. I mean, if you want to argue semantics till your blue in the face go ahead, won’t really do much to ruin my day though. :P

You know if Anet wasn’t so stubborn in admiting they made a mistake with the whole “No Mounts” concept this silly mess wouldn’t even be discussed.

Mesmers complain about the same thing btw

The main argument is “Well then Guards and mesmers would be OP in combat”

Well what if that movement speed was only usable outside of combat? What if it was unlockable? Oh i know, lets make it cute and have people want to collect them? Sounds familiar? no more “I can’t keep up with zerg” or “Moving around open PvE is hell” threads.

Instead they keep handing everybody 25% speed traits and signets. Guards/mesmers just got the short hand of the flawed stick.

Oozo.7856:

I’m far more concerned about keeping people from running away than running away from people.

Has anyone suggested stealth for guardians yet? If not…

Sadly that’s not what most guardians are concerned with. It’s a minority that build to actively kill, and the vast majority that build to support/heal. For those kits the mobility is great already. It’s the “I want to kill someone” crowd that need the mobility. We do have options, but most of them involve abusing the hell out of terrain or a few meditations.