Guild Wars 2

thanks for the grat write up

mod..please sticky this thread

What are your thoughts on a 0/10/30/20/10 build for WvW as I didn’t see this as one of your recommended builds? I guess specifically:

The Renewed Justice trait seems to be not as useful as it requires you to land the killing blow for the VoJ refresh which can be hard to do in WvW. But the 10 gives the option to reduce Signet cooldown. Any thoughts on Blind Exposure though? Especially when combined with the VoJ blind and the sword blind. Seems like it could be pretty good to quickly take down a target since you say sword/focus is good for 1v1.

10 in Virtues just seems useful for more options in the build since there seems to be several nice to have traits there (e.g. MoC for WoR or Vengeful).

Thanks for your guides BTW, if not for them, I’d probably be a regular run of the mill GS guardian.

I’ve spent the last week pouring over the original thread trying to piece together a build, and now this thread has appeared and helped be my savior. I loved the hammers look from when I first started playing the Guardian, but noticed the Greatswords much faster PvE killtime. With this build as my basis as I level my guardian up, I look forward to becoming a juggernaut on the battlefield.

Thank you Brutaly!

sticky this kitten please!

I want to further state why this deserves a sticky, besides being an awesome build that could just go in the build guides. Because this thread goes over a LOT of what makes a Guardian powerful, and Brutaly is very focused on making sure that you get a build YOU appreciate, rather than simply how to make an awesome Crithammer build.

Dracil.8365:

What are your thoughts on a 0/10/30/20/10 build for WvW as I didn’t see this as one of your recommended builds?

Its there, i think its the second one, called “razors edge” and its really nice mix of dps and support, hence the edge. Its competent for wvw and i would either use vit/pov/tough or pre/vit/heal.

Dracil.8365:

The Renewed Justice trait seems to be not as useful as it requires you to land the killing blow for the VoJ refresh which can be hard to do in WvW. But the 10 gives the option to reduce Signet cooldown. Any thoughts on Blind Exposure though? Especially when combined with the VoJ blind and the sword blind. Seems like it could be pretty good to quickly take down a target since you say sword/focus is good for 1v1.

10 in Virtues just seems useful for more options in the build since there seems to be several nice to have traits there (e.g. MoC for WoR or Vengeful).

I like everything about VoJ but it is as you say less rewarding to trait reset cd on kill in wvw.

I know people might disagree but i find blind on VoJ to be really nice especially as a frontline basher. In a crowd its basically x missed hits and it adds lots of survivability.

Sorry if i been unclear i wouldnt bring 1h sword with hammer in wvw. I need at least one ranged option so i would use the staff and if in the mode the scepter. Not 1h sword.

What i might do with a berserker gear is to go with scepter and 1h sword but thats a completely different thread and a completely different guardian.

Ah, so it is! I guess I missed it somehow. Thanks for the additional info!

This is not really related to the build, but I just want to throw this out there since it’s one of my tactics:

Scepter’s Suppressive Fire:

“In military science, suppressive fire is a fire that degrades the performance of a target below the level needed to fulfill its mission. Suppression is usually only effective for the duration of the fire.¹ Suppressive fire is not always a direct form of fire towards targets; it can be an effective visual and audible distraction. It is one of three types of fire support, which is defined by NATO as “the application of fire, coordinated with the manoeuvre of forces, to destroy, neutralize or suppress the enemy.”

How do you incorporate that in GW2? Easy. By throwing out Orbs of Wrath randomly all over the field, you are suppressing the enemies from moving forward. This is ideal for the scepter since it has a slow travel time as well as a clear visual and deal enough damage to be a dangerous threat. If the enemies start to push forward, they have to go through the sea of tennis balls especially when you have more than one guardian doing it.

I didn’t see it on the first read, but is there a strategy for which lines to go up first for someone leveling up? I just hit 60 and need to respend my points. I would assume that I should straight for AH and then the rest in Honor?

Also I have seen many mention the Runes of Divinity. Are they so great because of the crit damage bonus or the +60 to stats? If it is just the stats or mostly the stats, then how good are the Orbs as I understand they are cheaper from what I remember. # x emerald and 3 x sapphire would get you 60 precision, 60 heal, 84 toughness and 84 power. If it is the crit damage, then 3 x Beryl and 3 x Ruby would get you 120 power, 12% crit damage, 42 vitality and 42 precision.

I know that isn’t quite the same as +60 to all stats and 12% crit damage, but is it something worth looking into?

Runes of Divinity is for overall stats. I think it’s really overrated since using the orbs to cover your weakness is much better. Example: you have high attack and high armor but not enough crit. Use some Emerald or Ruby Orb to increase the precision.

Please, please, please, make this a sticky. The previous post was beautifully summed up in this one, a must read for all the guardians out there.

I’m playing the CritHammer build myself since I was convinced by your first post, TPvP, WvW and Pve, don’t even have to change my build 95% of the time, the hammer being so versatile. Thanks a lot for your work Brutaly !

You are a boon to the community, Brutaly.

And I wish people wouldn’t call this a build. That’s like calling Beethoven’s 5th Symphony a “song”.

This is an approach and a philosophy… and the most in-depth composition on approaching the Hammer since the original “Crit-Hammer” thread… which I still read when at work to familiarize myself with what to understand before I can consider myself worth a kitten in-game.

The detail you go into helps me understand how to approach builds, weapons, armor, sigils, runes, accessories, etc. for all classes in any RPG. This transcends the Guardian. Your approach to the “synergy” aspect of a toon is elegant and simple in it’s grandeur.

I thank you and wish you luck.

Thanks from all of us.

How do you feel about the hammer/gs combo in wvw? Does these two weapons works well with eacb other?

I enjoyed the hammer gameplay, but i have recently got my hand on an awesome gs skin and i had to switch to gs just so i can see the skin -_-

J am thinking leaping into the front line, hit all my cds, and switcb to hammer and start bashing…..

Thanks

How do we request for this thread to be stickied? Do we report it and request for sticky?

You have made a rather large mistake here. You say that signet of resolve is the only real choice for PvE. This is incorrect for this build. You have a trait called ‘might of the protector’ which automatically comes before Altruistic Healing. This gives you one stack of might whenever you block.

Consider Shelter, which gives you an unlimited about of blocking for a few seconds. Time this with a flurry of enemy attacks and you can easily gain many stacks of might. Couple this with the practical invulnerability this gives you, and Shelter quickly becomes the best healing skill in this build.

I think to brush it aside and pick signet of resolve is short sighted.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJASRlYgCBnCSJEfIFRWBWWpYfyDrgGveoQKyQA

Here is a build using AH that I have run sometimes in SPVP. It works pretty well. The healing is not as high as your normal AH build, but you are still pretty tanky, getting healing everytime you use a Virtue or a Symbol. On the other hand, it does a lot more damage and has more CC than your normal Crithammer build through the 2 Spirit Weapons. It is about 75% as tanky as Crithammer and 75% as offensive as the normal 20/20/0/20/10 Spirit Weapon build. Its hard to measure the CC from the glowy hammer though.

My favourite guardian weaponset is usually mace+focus, but for this build I tried hammer + staff. I did this in spvp although my intent is to play a lot of wvw once I hit 80. I just like the control capabilities with both weapons, and with the AH build staff 4 heals you pretty much full from half health or less when buffing 4 or so people.

My only issue is I don’t have a ton of crit% or crit damage. I went vit+toughness with my runes (warrior I think?) simply because 14k health without it seemed a bit low, and higher toughness for a low health class is better than more vitality.

Any suggestions on bumping up crit a bit, while still keeping a bit of tankiness? I know you suggested against it, but I was running 3 shouts:
“Save Yourself”, my oh kitten button when I’m by myself or in a group and getting ganged up on
“Stand Your Ground”, low cooldown stability for stomps mostly
and I was using “Hold the Line” for a bit of protection on low cooldown, but the duration stinks so I think I’ll swap it out for Wall of Reflection or Sanctuary

@Dracil – i used to run 0/15/30/20/5 build for the renewed justice as i too find that treat great. especially in PvE. although while playing PvE, as long as i got a hit on the target and anyone can land the killing blow, my F1 was refreshed. is this different in WvW? i eventually switched to 0/5/30/30/5 because ifor my play style, there were way too many benefits from the Honor line.

@Levian – the great thing about Brutaly and his guides are that they are really flexible. you can see by how he lists many different utilities / skills / upgrades for you to choose from and even builds so you can find one that matches your play style.

i myself run with 3 shouts (SY, Retreat and HtL usually and i’ll swap in other utilities when the situation calls for it). all shouts give boons so it works with AH. Hold the Line does have a long cooldown, ut i feel it’s quite crucial for me and my group.
i usually switch our retreat for Wall of Reflection if against lot of ranged. or add in condition removals if needed (usually purging flames, AoE conditiona removal as well as acts as a fire field —> AoE might from MB.

in terms of upping crit %, you mentioned what type of runes you’re using, but what armor are you running right now?

Beautiful write-up.

Haven’t been on the Guard forums in a while (been messing with ele and ranger too much), and am glad to see the crithammer build finally taking notice. Seems like just yesterday there were only three of us defending its validity in the sea of greatsword users and cleric healers. Now it looks as though those detractors have finally given it a try!

Great writup. Been using Berserker armor, knights jewelry, knight’s hammer with sword/shield offhand, and soldier runes recently (changed from divinity) for well over a month now. I must say for those debating wasting the gold on divinity, don’t.

While not a bad rune, the other options (soldier rune in particular) I have found to be much better options for this kind of build.

Sticky request as well. Keep up the good fight man

Why hasn’t this been given the Sticky yet?

sticky sticky sticky…

Hi Brutaly,

I was pointed in the direction of this thread just earlier today and from what I have read so far (been at work most of the day) it is blooming amazing!
Just what I was after as I dinged 80 last night and was looking for something along these lines…….

So for that THANK YOU, and please mods will you sticky this thread

Im using 0/15/30/20/5 build for renewed justice.
Cuz I also think blinding enemies is very GOOOOD for survivability.
But 15 points in radiance make me use only 20 points in honor. This is problem.
I must Choose either Empowering might or 2h mastery.
Should i use 0/5/30/30/5 build for using both trait?
If i dont have to change my build, Which trait is best choice for WvW??

As a person who has been building for this build since lvl 0 I must thank you. This indepth guide assists me in ways I hadnt thought of. Im currently 70 and am finally able to trait my empowering might. It may be a while before the build is truly realised, but I am on my way.

ID also like to thank eveningstar as he is also a staunch defender of the Guardian way of life. :P

carson yuen.6739:

How do you feel about the hammer/gs combo in wvw?

Thanks

Read the guide. Its kind of clear what i think of two melee weapons in wvw.

Zantesuken.5318:

You have made a rather large mistake here. You say that signet of resolve is the only real choice for PvE. This is incorrect for this build. You have a trait called ‘might of the protector’ which automatically comes before Altruistic Healing. This gives you one stack of might whenever you block.

Consider Shelter, which gives you an unlimited about of blocking for a few seconds. Time this with a flurry of enemy attacks and you can easily gain many stacks of might. Couple this with the practical invulnerability this gives you, and Shelter quickly becomes the best healing skill in this build.

I think to brush it aside and pick signet of resolve is short sighted.

If you want to discuss something them words like “mistake” follwed by “short sighted” is kind of diminshing.

May i sugggest smoething like.

“Personally i find shelter to be of value in when you (insert your scenario from your post) and it should be in the guide.

Can you elaborate and tell me why you left it out? Thanks in advance"

And there are a number of reasons why i left it out and ONE of those reasons is what you infact describe.

Shelter is better then the signet in very few and obscure, like the one you describe, situations and is at best a situational tool. Its even questionable in pvp and even in a might stacking build, which btw is described in the text.

I also stated very early in the guide that all if not most application of skills/gear/etc ALSO was applicable in pve.

Im am more then willing to discuss it and also add it in the guide but only if we stay on topic and dont make it personal, as i find your post to be, and i would gladly give you at least 4 more reason, of the top of my head, why shelter shouldnt be used in pve.

Tazdingo.8249:

Im using 0/15/30/20/5 build for renewed justice.
Cuz I also think blinding enemies is very GOOOOD for survivability.
But 15 points in radiance make me use only 20 points in honor. This is problem.
I must Choose either Empowering might or 2h mastery.
Should i use 0/5/30/30/5 build for using both trait?
If i dont have to change my build, Which trait is best choice for WvW??

Easy answer, read the guide, one of them are mandatory in wvw. Its in there.

@Everyone
Can you help me here? I would appriciate if we stayed on topic and discussed the guide and its content and additions you want me to do.

Builds and advice is interesting but in this thread its the guide itself thats the topic. Read it and then suggest chages if you miss something about hammer and AH.

Will start updating it tomorrow based on the fee will feedback i gotten so hopefully it will improve slightly.

And thanks for the kind words and its really cool that some of you find it useful.

Also gotten some pm if they can use in on other sites and stuff and ofc you can. The more people that reads it the less are prone to post subject like:
“worst elites ever”
“the class is dead”
So keep giving feedback as long its about the topic and not my person i will respond, discuss and also change the guide.

Thanks for the great post. I just hit 75, I switched from the GS to Hammer at 65, the last ten levels have been a breeze using the hammer.

How did you go about gearing up at 80? Dungeons? Grinding Gold? PvP? Just wondering what to start with as a soon to be fresh 80 as it seems there are unlimited options and I wanted to see how others went about it?

Its in the guide, check under armour. I got all the gear mentioned in the thread and if you read the armor chapter you also get a recommendation what to focus on and the easiest way to get them except gold to buy crafted.

kwatrich.3805:

Thanks for the great post. I just hit 75, I switched from the GS to Hammer at 65, the last ten levels have been a breeze using the hammer.

How did you go about gearing up at 80? Dungeons? Grinding Gold? PvP? Just wondering what to start with as a soon to be fresh 80 as it seems there are unlimited options and I wanted to see how others went about it?

There’s a few ways of getting gears.

Farming: you can either farm mats directly to craft the items or farm gold and buy it from the TP. It’s a pretty fast way to get gears. This is how I got my first exotic set, but it’s before DR was introduced.

Playing with TP: you can get gold by just playing the economic game and use that gold for gears.

Dungeons: 180 tokens/day for an all paths run and more if you’re redoing the paths. It’s a really fast way to gear up if you’re efficient at running dungeons.

WvW: killing enemies for badge of honor. I think this is the slowest way of gaining exotic gears, but it’s the only way if you want to PvP only.

Imo, dungeons running is the best at getting exotic gears. You can also get quite a bit of gold from finishing the dungeons and selling the goods which then can be used to buy jewelry.

Edit: forgot that you can also get gears with karma. This makes dungeons even better since you get 1800 for the first time of the day that you run that path.

well seems appreciated, someone that has any idea how to get it stickied or how to contact a moderator?

All link are down for the build :/

Grine.2931:

All link are down for the build :/

If you use the ones in the buildssection they work for me- Maybe cut and paste them works better for you.

Updated the guide with highlights to make it easier for the eye and also some corrections/clarifications and changes based on feedback.

A great thread. I read both this and the other crithammer thread with great interest. The first thread taught me a great deal about theorycrafting on this game in general, and not just for the guardian/ah way of life.

That said, I do have an opinion on Writ of the Merciful that differs from yours. I find it -incredibly- useful, and often take it instead of Battle Presence. With just my hammer having healing power, my symbol heals for (iirc, please someone correct me if I’m wrong) around 250 a tick. It really adds to your own survivability in any situation, and works great on your melee allies as well.

It’s all relative on the rest of people’s builds of course.

@Valmarius
With 1k healing power it ticks for 184hp, it almost requires that you have all writs traited for max impact and then you loose out on both 2h mastery and superior aria.

I have to disagree with you. It very situational and the heals are mediocre.

It has its uses in pve and tanking but battle presence is better, even though the amount per tick is lower, 145 per tick with 1k healing on resolve, since its 24/7 and you dont have to do anything for the team to get it and the aoe is bigger.

You could trait both though WoM and BP but then 2 h mastery and writ of persistence is out of the question (which lower the benefit from heals from the symbol) and it will lower the amount of crits and then you loose healing from AH.

Basically writ of the merciful is either for you only and it “feels” like good support or you reduce the teams freedom of movement if they want to have heals from it.

But it has its uses but in a build/theorem like this its just a secondary option and deserves to be mentioned but not prasied.

If the numbers im posted are correct, which they are, do you agree?

Im more then willing to change the guide if you prove the above wrong and i missed out on something.

Tazdingo.8249:

0/5/30/30/5 (with ranger rune) , 0/15/30/20/5 (soldier rune)
Which build is better in WvW?
Plz give me ansewr king of crithammer

This thread is about the guide not builds in wvw.

Misdirected flattery wont work, if you read the guide you will find what you are searching for and also that is one of the reasons why i wrote it was that i wouldn’t have to keep answering questions like yours, questions with no answers to give.

Read the guide, only you can answer that question.

No, no. I don’t dispute your numbers. I was working with memory only, and can freely admit I was probably incorrect.

I do still hold though (and this is only my opinion, I’m not interested in saying people are wrong) that it can be very useful depending on the build/situation. All I suggest is that people give it a go and decide for themselves.

“Writ of the merciful, heals on symbols, mainly a pve feat but worth looking at but EM, WoP and WoE are better so I doubt anyone would choose it but there is a slim chance someone might find it to be their cup of tea”

This is the original text, how should i change it so it better reflects what you are saying? Imo it already states that is has some uses worth considering.

If that doesnt shine through i missed my intent with the text, i do find it worth considering otherwise i wouldnt have mentioned it.

I don’t think you should change your guide at all. It’s fine as it is. I didn’t intend to critisize or argue.

I may have read too much into you saying there was only a ‘slim chance’ people would find a use for it.

Valmarius.4150:

I don’t think you should change your guide at all. It’s fine as it is. I didn’t intend to critisize or argue.

I may have read too much into you saying there was only a ‘slim chance’ people would find a use for it.

Well ofc i wil adjust it so its more inline with what you write, i think we actually have the same opinion but i was a bit too categorical.

Kirito.8796:

Could you make a video using this build in WvW? (if you have the time ofc)

Ofc i can make a video, and infact has several for personal use, but i have a no post policy regarding clips and pics-

Thinking of breaking that policy regarding animationskipping, or let a friend post, so people can see what i mean, but i wont post from wvw, sorry.

I feel the need to clarify one thing because this is a blatant misconception on the part of many, many people who have not actually looked at the numbers:

THE HAMMER IS THE LOWEST DPS WEAPON THE GUARDIAN HAS.

That’s right, the hammer’s DPS is even lower than the staff’s. Mighty Blow is crap damage. It takes forever to execute and barely hits above a mace auto-attack. Symbol of Protection is high damage but the hammer chain is also ludicrously slow, so your average damage is actually extremely low.

Moreover, using the hammer won’t even significantly improve your survivability, because you don’t get enough hits to proc AH heals off crits compared to GS/scepter and your healing is completely halted if you ever stop auto-attacking.

As such, I recommend you only use hammer if you are in a situation where you need protection specifically. Otherwise, for a balanced defensive set, the mace is better. It does more damage, Symbol of Faith gives an near-equivalent number of AH procs over time (7 every 9s vs 8 every 10s), and you don’t have to constantly auto-attack to keep the symbol up so you can use other skills without losing survivability.

I commend the effort you made in writing the guide (and some parts of it are good) but you should really check your numbers first. Numbers are important. So is experience. Your unfounded claims fail in both.

Thx for the feedback even though based on subjective observations instead of real measurements. sitting on the bus going back home and i will post my measurements when i get back home.

With that said this is what i can recall form my tests regarding skill number one:

Killtimes on medium golem, naked with purple weapon, and skill number one only.

10 samples (10 kills) with skill one only and not traits at all.

Average killtime was:
hammer 55s
Staff 1:30
GS 1:00
Scepter: 1:20
Mace 1:20
1h: 50s

But i will get back to you with the actual testnumbers shortly including symbols, ww, zd and mb.

this forum is just to bugged and i cant add/edit in these right now but here they are.

Will add dps comparisons due to feedback on faulty reasoning in the guide..

Average killtimes on medium golem, naked and untraited with purple weapons.

Skill 1
1h sword 51s
Mace 82s
Scepter 77s
GS 60s
Staff 95s
Hammer 51s

The reason why hammer is so strong it that it actually hits at least 7 times and procc burn once or twice on every chain and ofc the symbol and that the third hit hits hard, really hard.

If we use symbol+chain om Mace, GS and hammer (still only skill 1) and we apply the symbol whenever its off cd then average killtimes are:
Mace: 61s
GS: 60s
Hammer still 51s ofc

If we add in ww, mb and ZD as well we get this:
GS 51s
1h 46s
Hammer still 51s

This also means that when traited with 2h mastery GS will improve somewhat compared to hammer on single targets and the killtime is 48 seconds.

On the other hand when you trait writs then it will improves hammer more then GS and make it possible to have 24/7 uptime on aoe.
Add to this that the symbol on hammer has about 400 in ranges as well.

So for single targets 1h sword is the best, why i use one in tpvp btw and why its really nice combined with hammer whihc is weaker on single targets.

If you want a hybrid of single target and aoe then GS is an option.

BUT if you want max dps over times versus more then one opponent then hammer is superior.

Add to this that MB is a much more reliable source of damage than ww since its pure aoe and also is a gapcloser/target changer with really low cd.

The reason why i didnt even consider mace as an option is that the third skill of the mace isnt reliable at all as a source of dps.

If you dont believe me go to the mist and try this for yourself.

Once gain i ant edit.

People need to know that hammer gameplay described in this guide isnt defensive gameplay, its extremely offensive and used properly there are few melee, if any, weapons in the game that even come close to hammer dps on multiple targets.

Added chapter 21 due to feedback:
21. Killing the myth of low dps on the hammer

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Scepter-DPS-Tested-To-Equal-GS-DPS

You tried, but my tests are much more conclusive.

This is the problem with your numbers:

1) You are using a steady weapon with a low attack value. This scales down your direct damage but it does NOT scale down your burning procs from Justice. You are also not using any other skills besides the auto-attack so of course the auto-attack chain that does the most hits will kill the fastest. That’s why sword is on top even though in reality its DPS isn’t that good either.

2) NONE of the hammer skills increase damage output. This is another common misconception, that Mighty Blow deals damage. It does not. It is a frontloaded burst of damage that causes you to LOSE overall damage, because you actually do MORE damage with the auto-attack in the same amount of time. In fact, it interrupts your auto-attack chain, so you get fewer symbols (and the vast majority of hammer damage comes from the symbol) so if you’re using Mighty Blow on CD, you’re losing way more than you would be otherwise.

3) Hammer benefits from relatively few traits. Mace and scepter benefit from Right-Handed Strength to significantly boost DPS, while Greatsword and Staff gain the advantage of Two Handed Mastery. One-handed weapons can also use a traited Zealot’s Fire or Shield of Wrath to boost DPS even more. Pretty much everything benefits from Writ of Persistence, except Scepter. By comparison, hammers only benefit from Writ of Persistence.

4) You can’t weapon swap to boost DPS. If you sit on the GS constantly and don’t swap, you already have a higher DPS than the hammer. If you use the symbol, whirl, and bind, then swap and use the skills from another weapon set, you get the damage boosts from the skills of both weapon sets without having to wait for recharges. For example, Wrath > WW > Binding > Smite > ZF > CF > Smite > repeat is an extremely high damage rotation. By comparison, you’re going to lose half of that advantage with the hammer because you have no skills to recharge when not using it.

I get that you like the hammer and want to promote its use, but really, don’t spread falsehoods.

Your test is a little odd, you are not testing the raw damage of a weapon, but different builds with different weapons. (and different builds means different stats, different output values)…
and another thing, why test GS and staff using 2h mastery, and hammer without it? ok using the classic 1112 rotation, you see this trait only in a -1 sec MB cooldown, but it help to have a MB every rotation whitout lose much time.

@Guanglai Kangyi

1. I infact used 3 skills in the last test in the post on gs. And only two on hammer.

2. Mighty blow infact improves dps versus a single target, even though very little, but not if you chain+mb or chain+chain+mb. If you chain+first step of chain+mb then you do max dps on the hammer. Only a couple of percent but it do increase dps.

3. Hammer is greatly improved by writ of exaltation, larger aoe more damage and since the symbol has 80% uptime (untraited) its huge.

4. ofc you can weaponswap, you dont swap based on cds, you swap based on the opponents, if there are more then 1 opponent then hammer is superior, if its a single target then gs or 1h sword is better.

As ganzo said you are comparing apple and pears, take the same set up in traits and stats and then you compare dps.

Ofc you can squeeze out more single target dps from a 1h sword, no one is arguing about that, but compare them with equal stats and reasonable builds then we can start talking. otherwise the entire discussion is kind of pointless.

And yes the hammer do increase overall dps in any situation with more then one opponent since mb is aoe and infact hits multiple enemies. No other weapon has 100% uptime on aoe.

As i said single target gs and 1h are better, with two opponents or more the hammer becomes more then valid.

And no the majority of single target damage doesnt come from the symbol, it hits for much less then the chain it self. The symbol hits three times and the chain hits three times and you cant argue that the individual hits in the chain in fact hit harder then the symbol.

if you cant accept the test get a veteran in cursed shore and the you do the same test and compare dps with the same build and what weapon which will fastest bringing it down. bring it down. its not mace/scepter/staff, that is for sure.

It will be 1h sword, followed but gs and then hammer and the differecne will be about 2-4% between gs and hammer and the only diffference is that the hammer killed all adds faster with the aoe.

Very good guide Brutaly thanks for putting the time and effort in.

The links for your builds seem a little broken as none of the traits are selected but the points are in there

smero.5279:

Very good guide Brutaly thanks for putting the time and effort in.

The links for your builds seem a little broken as none of the traits are selected but the points are in there

That was the point :-).

All traits are in the guide and i only posted the builds to display a number of possible distributions. Several of the traits are interchangeable which means like 30 different builds to post.

Instead read it and decide what you want and then find a distribution that “gives” you that.

Hey Brutaly, awesome stuff here, this thread made me pick my guardian up again and play it. Currently farming dungeons for better equip for my guardian and twinks.

I have two questions, you say you don’t have mace on yourself, why? Do you feel that what mace brings is too similar to hammer? It seems like good defensive, single target option with the heal and block.

Second thing, I looked at your suggested stats and I can barely make the low point for each stat, I am wearing rare jewelry, exotic hammer, 3 pieces exotic, 3 pieces rare armor; armor imbued with orbs. I tried to mix and match so I can get your suggested stats and I am currently sitting at

43% crit before food
~2800 Attack
14k health
~2400 armor
300 heal power
61% critdamage

so basicaly the low point for each, is this normal? I don’t see much room for improvement, bit here and there from getting exotic jwlry and some inherent defense when I upgrade my armor to exotic. It feels to me, that in order to get the high end on one or few stats I can’t get the low end on some other ones.

Anyway, great approach to what I originally felt as slow and clumsy weapon, I am beginning to love it. I didn’t see much mention in the text but at least in dungeons when you can afford to stand in one place you have very high uptime on retaliation, not only for you but for all the melees on the boss. Coupled with some shouts I think you can get 100% uptime easily.

On the one hand, Hammer is very good DPS because if you check it on the golems, the hammer symbol ticks four times from anywhere from 400 non-crit each on the heavy golems to 1000+ crit on the light. On average I’m getting 2500 damage every time I lay down a symbol for every creature in the symbol, and have gone over 4K from a single symbol several times (in which case it exceeds the hammer chain damage itself) .

On the other hand, the symbol damage is a lot better than what MB is giving me in a similar time frame. And if you take Writ of Persistence over Two-Handed weapon spec, you increase that already high symbol damage by 25%—at that point it will be more than half your damage.

As such I’d recommend going with both Writs to maximize symbol damage, and only use MB as a gap closer against players (who tend to move out of symbols) or as an advantageous combo finisher (and a light field doesn’t warrant it).

The symbol hits for three hits, not four unless traited and trating it increase symboldamage with 33%, its detail but right is right. You need to check that again, i havent seen a single symbol tick for more then 3 ticks untraited. I done hundreds of chains in the tests i done to figure out damage from different weapons and never seen it hit four times, but i might be bugged.

And no it doesnt exceed the hammer chaindamage.

The symbol and the chain are equally improved by power, crit and crit damage.

If you dress down and remove the crits and crit damage and use purple weapons you will find that the chain hits for:
72+81+90 which is 243 and the symbol hits for 45+45+45 which is 135 on a medium golem in the mist.

So i cant see how the symbol hits for more then then chain. It is a substantial contribution but not more, not even close or am i missing something here. Even with writ of persistence the symbol is still 25% less damage then the chain.

i tested the dmg of the weapons myself on Mist with 0 traits anywhere and no stats on the wepons. This is what i got:
scepter (with skill) > GS (with skills) > 1hsword(skills dont improve dps) > Hammer (skills dont improve dps) > Mace (with skill)

I was kind of shocked that the 2nd skill from hammer doesn’t improve the dps even with combo field. I attacked like this: 1112,111,1112,111 etc. which killed the golem 0.40 sec faster than with auto-attack only. GS is 4 sec faster than hammer.