Guild Wars 2

Mighty blow is also a much more reliable way of getting retaliation than leap of faith.

That MB doesnt add any significant single target damage to hammer in pve/static targets isnt a surprise at all, it was known.

And your observations regarding using all skills on gs for max dps are in line with my observations as well. Single target gs is slightly better.

which makes the hammer totally independent on cds to do damage.

What i dont get is that you found that ZD+Blink didnt improve damage on 1h sword, i got very different data there. How many runs did you have in the sample? i done numerous runs with GS and 1h and 1h always have higher base dps then the gs. weird!!

Edit
did 4 new runs on heavy golem and all 1h runs scored higher then the gs runs. Using skill 1-3 on 1h and skill 1-4 on gs. Something is fishy here.

If we’re talking about practical PvE environment (especially dungeons), you can’t MB every time it’s up (2>111>12). You have to time it with your team’s combo field. Also, depending on how long protection is already on you and/or do you need the extra AH healing, it’s good to cancel the attack chain Symbol of Protection for some of the combo fields such as poison for AoE weakness, fire for AoE might, or water for heals.

I also want to mention that hammer has the most consistent AoE between SoP and MB. Greatsword chain attack can only hit up to three targets (same as hammer but it has SoP that hit everything in the radius). SoP deals slightly less damage (10%) than SoW but has way more uptime. Whirling Wrath’s damage is split between swings and projectiles making the damage uneven among the targets (some will get hit more with projectiles. In some cases, the projectiles will just plainly miss).

I guess I was misreading the combat log. It shows the third hammer hit as an SoP hit, and when traited you get 5x SoPs in a row on the log.

Still, 243+135 = 378, while 243+135+45 = 423. This puts writ of persistence as nearly a 12% DPS gain. This is pretty significant and I’m certain that with that trait MB becomes a significant DPS loss (given that MB adds no significant damage but WoP most certainly does). I’m not even sure Greatsword can catch up to that, but I haven’t tested it.

i didnt even test blink because i just assumed it wouldnt improve the dmg. same thing with leap of faith on the GS. With ZD i killed my golem just 0.5 sec faster, which still is worse than GS (1hsword: 22.0sec to kill golem, with GS: 20.4sec).
There is always a luck factor in there: the critical hits. It’s possible that my GS just landed a few more crits on my test. I don’t have a large sample, so maybe it’s that.

Ganzo.5079:

Your test is a little odd, you are not testing the raw damage of a weapon, but different builds with different weapons. (and different builds means different stats, different output values)…
and another thing, why test GS and staff using 2h mastery, and hammer without it? ok using the classic 1112 rotation, you see this trait only in a -1 sec MB cooldown, but it help to have a MB every rotation whitout lose much time.

Think about what you’re saying for a minute. If I use the same build for every weapon then the weapon that build was designed around will show as the one with the highest DPS. If you’re testing greatswords with 30 points in Radiance for RH Strength then greatswords are going to look like crap compared to scepters and maces, and vice versa. That’s pretty obvious. The point is to test max DPS.

Also, if you actually read the topic (and it’s a long thread so I don’t blame you for not doing so) you’d see that there’s no reason to take 2H Mastery with a hammer because hammers have no DPS skills. You are better off investing those points elsewhere.

Honestly, too many people here try to make factual assertions on the basis of BUT I ONCE SAW MIGHTY BLOW CRIT FOR 50K SO IF YOU SPAM IT IT’S LIKE INFINITY DPS. Seriously, guys.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

there’s no reason to take 2H Mastery with a hammer because hammers have no DPS skills. You are better off investing those points elsewhere.

Well, yes, and because of how quickly SoP is recast, the extra tick from WoP is a huge DPS increase for hammer. This is something you did not take into account in your testing. So you’re right about the other hammer skills, but you’ve misjudged hammer by about 1 on your scale by misjudging the full effect of WoP (it’s closer to 14 instead of 12.5 in my testing). At the same time, your DPS weights given for GS to both binding blade and symbol of wrath are inaccurate for sustained DPS, as neither can be cast inside every 10 second window (the only measure you’ve tested) because the cooldowns are much longer than 10 seconds. That in my mind is going to drop GS down below hammer (with Writ of Persistence) for sustained DPS. But as you wrote in the other thread, we’re going to need to see exact numbers on activation times for proof; it’s close.

Meanwhile yes, scepter is #1 for guardian DPS. Who’d have thunk it.

@ VulcanLogic

Read the thread again. DPS measurements for skills with a CD is average damage gain per second. In other words, damage over auto-attack divided by CD. And I already included Writ of Persistence in the hammer’s DPS calculation. My estimate is between 10-12.5 for hammer auto. It may be slightly more or less, but not significantly.

As I also noted, GS damage is actually on the LOW side since it measures Symbol damage pre-buff and also uses the lowest damage value for WW (melee range on a small target). So you have hammer at 12.5 with a generous estimate and GS at 15 with a very conservative one. No way in hell is that ever going to get up with GS being weaker than hammer no matter how you skew the number in the hammer’s favor.

From a practical perspective, it’s quite obvious as well. It takes half an hour to kill anything with a hammer. If you haven’t realized this the very first time you equipped a hammer, you’re intentionally blinding yourself to the truth.

Hammer has good CC and the protection can be useful in specific situations. However, it is NOT for DPS. It’s ridiculous to think the DPS is even average, much less “the best”.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Ganzo.5079:

Your test is a little odd, you are not testing the raw damage of a weapon, but different builds with different weapons. (and different builds means different stats, different output values)…
and another thing, why test GS and staff using 2h mastery, and hammer without it? ok using the classic 1112 rotation, you see this trait only in a -1 sec MB cooldown, but it help to have a MB every rotation whitout lose much time.

Think about what you’re saying for a minute. If I use the same build for every weapon then the weapon that build was designed around will show as the one with the highest DPS. If you’re testing greatswords with 30 points in Radiance for RH Strength then greatswords are going to look like crap compared to scepters and maces, and vice versa. That’s pretty obvious. The point is to test max DPS.

Also, if you actually read the topic (and it’s a long thread so I don’t blame you for not doing so) you’d see that there’s no reason to take 2H Mastery with a hammer because hammers have no DPS skills. You are better off investing those points elsewhere.

Honestly, too many people here try to make factual assertions on the basis of BUT I ONCE SAW MIGHTY BLOW CRIT FOR 50K SO IF YOU SPAM IT IT’S LIKE INFINITY DPS. Seriously, guys.

No but if you gonna test dps you need to do it with builds with similar stats and characteristics.. Testing a bunker build versus a dps build its kind of misleading.

The whole point with the thread is to display actual performance in real situations, not creating some sort of theoretical dps chart.

For instance most of us know that scepter does loads of damage but at the same time we also know that if the target moves just one inch the dps drops dramatically.

So it has high theoretical dps and medium practical.

The hammer is the opposite in pvp, it has medium/high theoretical dps but high practical due to availability on cds and a very nice chain. In pvp 2h mastery increases damage but a lot, in pve not so much even though it does.

This means the hammer is less depedent on cooldown, its not the same as inherent low dps, its actually the other way around, then max dps of the hammer is always at your fingertips., being deependent on cool downs or specific builds/traits isnt something good. The hammer instead has great synergies with sixe/duration on symbols and ofc AH through the shear amount of boons it spews out..

Once again, dress up and go to cursed shore and grab a veteran troll with the build of your choice and then try the weapons out. With a usuable offensive AH build, 0/30/30/5/5 isnt viable but the ones i posted in OP are. so use one of those and do some testing and so whats real.

If you really think different builds should be used when discussin this then by all means lets do that in a pve situation and you will find that infact that the hammer is one of maybe two weapons (mace might be the second) that actually can have aggro for minutes with a 0/30/30/5/5 versus Grenth or any other hard hitter.

What weapon do you have highest dps in an aggro situation.

Regarding your finishing remark, even though diminishing, you can actually have those huge hits on a fairly regular basis and also with 100% certainty. The hammer is infact the only weapon suited to do those on a regualr basis and with 100% certainty.

One more reason why swapping with hammer actually do pay off.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

@ VulcanLogicNo way in hell is that ever going to get up with GS being weaker than hammer no matter how you skew the number in the hammer’s favor.

From a practical perspective, it’s quite obvious as well. It takes half an hour to kill anything with a hammer. If you haven’t realized this the very first time you equipped a hammer, you’re

First part, you are absolutely correct. GS has 6-8% higher single target dps, its higher but not substantial.

Second part, dead wrong, the aoe dps of the hammer is great versus multiple targets. As you wrote some where you didnt try it out that much and so there for i suggest you do that within the context of this thread.

Take one of the builds in this thread and charge into 2-4 veterans and see what weapon performs the best.

Wait wait wait, are you trying to say that HAMMER has high DPS in PVP? What? With what skill? Symbol? People stand in your symbols? Hook me up with these people man, I could use the free glory.

Also lol 6-8%, try 50-100%.

Hammer DPS is crap bro, deal with it. It’s not good AOE DPS, and it isn’t good single-target DPS. It’s not even that good defensively for reasons I’ve stated before. It’s pretty much purely a CC weapon. If you think hammer DPS is good then it’s because you’re running crap builds for your other weapons. I suggest you take a GS into those Orr mobs you’re so fond of and marvel at how now you can actually kill things in less than the time it takes to cook a microwave dinner. I’ve given hammer a fair shot. It takes days to kill anything.

as much as numbers can be supportive for a discussion like this, i feel what’s even more important is what each player likes and likes to play with. let me ask everyone in here, if you’re not interested in the hammer, why are you here? rather, let me spin that around a little, if you absolutely LOVE how the hammer plays, and someone tells you that it’s NOT the highest DPS weapon, are you just going to drop it? most likely not.

i appreciate numbers, but i don’t buy into it solely. if traited well and with the right stats and personal PLAY style, the hammer can hit a kittenload. am sure Brutaly and other players can more than attest to that. sure, GS definitely makes killing feels a lot faster, and i haven’t calculated the numbers exactly, but i love the hammer and how i’ve developed to play it. the AoE IS great on the hammer. and i’ve been abel to 1v multiples on WvW while i know for sure i wouldn’t be able to do so with the GS. sure you can say i am more familiar wiht the hammer, and thus, which is why i’m sticking with it. if i can take down several enemies one by one, i can definitely handle one.

@Brutaly – just wanted to let you know, been practicing even more and i think i’ve got the hang of the animation skipping and DOES make a big difference. though i’ve started to stand in place hitting chain1+2 while focusing on the timing of the dodge for canceling the animation. BUT i’m slowly getting the hang of it. now to further hone my target changing skills and symbol placement.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Wait wait wait, are you trying to say that HAMMER has high DPS in PVP? What? With what skill? Symbol? People stand in your symbols? Hook me up with these people man, I could use the free glory.

Also lol 6-8%, try 50-100%.

Hammer DPS is crap bro, deal with it. It’s not good AOE DPS, and it isn’t good single-target DPS. It’s not even that good defensively for reasons I’ve stated before. It’s pretty much purely a CC weapon. If you think hammer DPS is good then it’s because you’re running crap builds for your other weapons. I suggest you take a GS into those Orr mobs you’re so fond of and marvel at how now you can actually kill things in less than the time it takes to cook a microwave dinner. I’ve given hammer a fair shot. It takes days to kill anything.

Yes it has, as long as there is more then one target in 400 range. The thing is that the gameplay isnt as obvious as with a GS. Once again for single targets there are better options and in tpvp i have a second set for that.

Regarding you smug “Also lol 6-8%, try 50-100%.” comment. You always hit with at least one tick from the symbol in addition to the chain and even if you miss the target, which you also do with other weapons, you will hit with the symbol since its placed around the target with 300-400 range. So no the difference isnt as big as you point it out to be and its less depdent on cd to do dps and you also miss with ww and the SoW, those are only dependable sources of dps versus cced or skilless people.

Basically 6-8% lower dps and 3 cc to add to that and ofc combofinisher with 4 sec cd.

Oh i play other weapons too, in both tpvp and wvw, and they all have their uses but stating that hammer is just a cc weapon is kind of the whole point of this thread, its not.

The reason i use the mobs as a reference is that those are one of the most controlled environments to test stuff. Personally i do over 90% pvp and mostly tpvp but testing stuff in that environment is close to useless due to the number of variables.

Its really weird that as long as you are stating your opinion then pve tests are alright but as soon as i try to bring a shed of light from my perspective then pve tests are something bad and alright to ridicule.

To present date i have over 200 tournements with hammer as main weapon and in bwe i got three chars to level 10 or higher, before bwe3 i didnt even touch the hammer since i, as you, thought it was crap but after i got a lesson by a guy on gw2guru.com on how to play it i decided to make a real effort. And after maybe 100 hours of gameplay i started to get why its so underestimated.

You think im free glory is actually hysterical, not that you think it, but that is how people treat me in tpvp when they see i got a hammer “here comes an other bunker and cc build” and about 6 seconds later when they have 40% hp left they change their mind.

Cool that you try to diminish arguments by making them personal btw, it really brings the whole discussion in a positive direction.

akamon.2769:

@Brutaly – just wanted to let you know, been practicing even more and i think i’ve got the hang of the animation skipping and DOES make a big difference. though i’ve started to stand in place hitting chain1+2 while focusing on the timing of the dodge for canceling the animation. BUT i’m slowly getting the hang of it. now to further hone my target changing skills and symbol placement.

Yeah it does a kittenload of difference in performance in pvp and also versus hard hitters and the ability to take on huge packs in pve. The effect is that when you truly feel confident with it you start to wish there was an even more offensive set then berserkers, movement and constantly dodging around on a huge area, bouncing back in allows you to play with some crazy setups in gear.

Super. super guide. Well done. I am going to have to read it a few times to truly absorb it. I am n ot 80 yet and have been leveling with a greatsword and Scepter/focus combo. After reading this I am going to try out the hammer.
Thankyou

I wanna ask.. is the build editor working properly? I cant seem to see the traits used.
Great guide btw… I cant wait to try it out later.

Its working, i only posted the distribution of points in a number of valid builds, the traits you can find in the guide. So choose the traits you want from the guide and then try to find a distribution that suits you and the choices you make based on gear, playstyle etc.

Alright.. Thanks for the info.

@ yurtshone – glad you’re open to trying the hammer out! it really is truly fun and i love it. mixed and matched with different weapon sets you can achieve a lot!

@ Brutaly – agreed! and i say this running rare MF gear (explorer’s for the prec) which is what i run usually. apart from WvW and dungeons then i switch to my rare Knight’s. i don’t even have full exotics or the appropraite jewelry yet so i am intrigued to see how much a difference it can make with a full-intended set made for this build. been practicing dodgeing in, out, and sideways as well for better positioning and making use of the field, position of my allies and mobs. way too much fun.

Brutaly mentioned about “animationskipping”. I’m still not sure how this works. Can anybody do a video of this. Or is there any videos out there that demonstrates how to do this maneuver.

Hello brutality,

1)Would you play this build with a GS/Staff ? Do you feel like you lack mobility with a hammer (Not having the charge and the grapin of the sword)

2)Do you play sometimes in WvW with something else than a Staff in second weapon ? I run a small comp roaming grp and i use mainly the staff for the speed + Wall for escapes and 4 for some heals, but i was thinking about taking septer/shield instead..

izzo osbourne.3490:

Brutaly mentioned about “animationskipping”. I’m still not sure how this works. Can anybody do a video of this. Or is there any videos out there that demonstrates how to do this maneuver.

The easiest way to understand it is to infact abort the third step of the chain with a dodge. And then you keep on trying to do that until you abort the animation midsving but you still apply damage/symbol.

So:
- Got to the mist
- Use a purple weapon so you do as little damage as possible so you can do as many tries on the golem as possible before killing it.
-Start the third hit
-dodge and try to dodge as early as possible and still apply the damage.

Dawg.5376:

Hello brutality,

1)Would you play this build with a GS/Staff ? Do you feel like you lack mobility with a hammer (Not having the charge and the grapin of the sword)

2)Do you play sometimes in WvW with something else than a Staff in second weapon ? I run a small comp roaming grp and i use mainly the staff for the speed + Wall for escapes and 4 for some heals, but i was thinking about taking septer/shield instead..

1. Yes it works almost as well with GS/staff. It can be used with mace, scepeter and 1h sword as well, suprisingly well with 1h/scepter with the proper gear. Hopefully i will get back to that later. An other community member and i are trying out stuff that isnt in the guide that seem very promising when it comes to 1h sword and scepter.

Yes ofc the mobility is an issue but it can be compensated for by using utilities like judges intervention. This isnt what you primarily chase people down with, then there are better solutions, GS being one of them. For pure movement the staff and retreat/SY are enough for high speed of movement out of combat.

Even though skill 5 on gs is great zealots embrace is pretty neat in masspvp, its cooldown compensates really well compared to the gs leap and skill 5.

Yes i use other secondaries as well, scepter/shield being one of them.

Brutaly, can you comment on the stats, I made a post close to the end of second page, I guess it got a bit lost in the hammer dps discussion

@Poplik
Reason why i didnt answer was that the thread is about the content of the guide, not stats on indivivual builds. But here it goes.
Basically you miss more then half the gear and only have rares. Get the exotics and you will be well in the stats.

You can always lower critdamage a bit and try to get more critchance instead.

I dont use the mace of two reason:
Mace is primarily defensive, or at least that is how i play it, and i find protection to be more useful as a defensive stat then incoming healing. This isnt a defensive setup tbh but its a setup that can take a huge beating while also deal a considerably amount of damage. I just dont see it fit in, but its more personal then anything else.

Mace is also nice if you have tons of healing power, i only have that in one set and then i find the dodge (which i do every fifth seconds when in combat) to be more effective (over 200 hps to me and the team) in combination with the hammer.

Mace works nicely with some the builds in the guide, if you want to use it, do!

Thanks for your quick answer,

i will test GS or Hammer for main and Staff or septer+shield for secondary and test the blood(main)+energy(secondary) sigils.

First of all thanks for this great guide, very helpfull.
I have a simple question: talking about dungeons, I usually play with the same group of friends in which I am the only melee.
My impression, but it might be just lack of my skills, is that AH isn’t that helpfull because of the fact my teammates are usually as far as possible from mob, so they don’t take all the boons I spread out.
Am I wrong? Should I go for another setup in order to gain some healing (meditations?)? Thanks.

Brutaly.6257:

I love hammer

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Wait wait wait you should not …

Brutaly.6257:

… but I still do.

I think you two should call it even. You are not gonna change each others opinion, obviously. I still think the guide is great an gives a lot of insight on hammer. If it performs the way you describes and if it suites their prefered playstyle is for everyone to decide on their own.

I did play a lot of crithammer the last two weeks and i liked it. Yet i do feel that while my damage is good I am getting too much heat. (not really getting the hang of dodging a lot). I find myself switchen back to great sword all the time even for mutiple mobs its just a lot easier. Although i am not extremely happy with the damage of crithammer its still a very good build. is it highest dps? probably not. does it have cool synergies? yes it does!

@ Guanglai Kangyi: Thanks for bringing a diffrent view to the topic

@Brutaly: Thank you for the effort you put into this. Still a great compilation!

Marmag.5823:

First of all thanks for this great guide, very helpfull.
I have a simple question: talking about dungeons, I usually play with the same group of friends in which I am the only melee.
My impression, but it might be just lack of my skills, is that AH isn’t that helpfull because of the fact my teammates are usually as far as possible from mob, so they don’t take all the boons I spread out.
Am I wrong? Should I go for another setup in order to gain some healing (meditations?)? Thanks.

i play a charr and in case of doubt my warband likes me boons a lot!

@Cannon
No theories at all. All been tested and works really well. Im not the only one playing this setup, amongst other setups, and made it work.

There are very few recent clips overall on youtube regarding guardian gameplay and if you search for altruistic healing you find very little even though its very common in both bunkerbuilds and in wvw, regardless of choice of weapon.

@Marmag
That is one of the downsides, in order to make it work you need a group that actually want the boons and understand what they do.

Change friends or make them hug you is my advice and .if that aint working meditations might be a solution. But try to change friends first.

Asmodal.6489:

(not really getting the hang of dodging a lot). I find myself switchen back to great sword all the time even for mutiple mobs its just a lot easier.

Which sums it up, its not as straight forward and its not for everyone.

Sticky McStickington from Sticky-Town USA!

(seriously, why hasn’t this been given a proper sitcky yet?)

Great work a comprehensive guide for players who want to give the hammer a serious go.

@ cannon
it really works if that helps… AH became a close to mendatory trait for guardians. i always miss it if i do not have it.
but like brutaly stated there is actually not one single build. lots of options around AH

infact you can use the build with greatsword and still get good results because of attack 3 on GS 1 which also adds a boon frequently.

You can choose mace/focus and shift to 15/0/30/20/5. trait for burn after block and 10% more damage vs. burning target (which will be the case all the time) —> my favorite pve solo spec for multiple targets. (its not a dps spec)

Super guide, I just got finished with the Guardian guide that is stickied too. You deserve a place alongside it too. Well written and very enjoyable to read.

I hope the mods see this and sticky it.

Contacted the moderator, no response so far, and asked for sticky.

Don’t worry about the non-sticky status guys.. I’m sure A.net is paying attention and is working on how to nerf this build.

Since there’s a lot of questions regarding animation skipping, I made a GIF for it:

I considered making an exception regarding clips and so i have done.

Sat down this morning and made this and i think it contains all the stuff i put into the guide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9MiF6P1Z0
First of all sorry for the poor quality but i get very bad lag when recording which also makes it a bit unprecise so this is the best i can do.

Here is what you see:

3 sec dodging between step 2 and 3
8 sec animationskipping on step 3 and most step 3 practice animationskipping, this stunt reduces the time of exposure to hostile damage greatly and keeps dps about 2-3% lower then a max dps rotation. In pvp its my conviction that practical dps is increased greatly due to less cc hitting you and also you can be in fights for longer periods of time thru negating damage and heals from dodge.

Watch this carefully and you will find that it applies the damage really “late” and im on my way away from there and the damage is applied almost in mid air, that is a perfect skip.
19 sec the true range of MB
19 sec Triggering the symbol when jumping into it.
24 sec triggering the symbol after the animation has vanished.
44 sec the range of the symbol
56 sec target swapping illustrated by pointing out the target with the mouse, normally when all hostiles are red then you dont use the mouse ofc. Also notice the aoe when jumping from the heavy golem to the medium golem.
65 sec triggering the combofield by jumping out of it and after the animatoin has vanished.
75 sec Check the size of that aoe
100 sec check the distance between the two golems and pay attention to whats going on in the right corner. Yes its the aoe also hitting the target you jump from, that aoe is beyond huge.

Pretty nice clip considering its one take and all moves are made after a script, made to display the guide. ;-)

With more then one target the dodging is almost never ending due to crits and vigor.

will add it to the guide later on but now its lunchtime.

@Trung – appreciate the GIF! that’s pretty cool actually. hopefully it helps illustrate this technique to those who are interested.

@ Brutaly! glad you finally decided to post a vid. sadly, it’s not working for me. :/// not sure if it’s because where i’m located but i get error 500 (and youtube’s silly monkey reference). hopefully i’ll get to check it out soon! very detailed breakdown and YES i can tell you folk the AoE range is massive on this.

[Edit: got the video to work now!! had to copy and paste the link into browser and it worked. might be an issue with trying to access it through the forums.]

great video and good to know what i think i am doing is pretty much what you’re doing lol. you move so fast between target switching and i love doing that too. lot more practice needed from my end though! this is a great display of how mobile you can be with the hammer instead of being rooted in one spot mashing #1 and your CDs when they’re up. and this is only using the first two skills available.

Long-time reader, recent poster here.

I started with the old crithammer thread and it’s great that you made a new thread about it. Thanks Brutaly! Very informative despite the fact that you’re not a native speaker. This deserve to be stickied.

I started with the 15/30/20/5 build with Knights armor and Berserker weapons and trinkets after hitting 80, and I started deviating from there… tried out a bunch of combinations involving mixing gears and trying out the 5/30/30/5 builds, but I still found 15/30/20/5 to have the best balance – not just between the offensive and supportive playstyles, but between PvE and WvW as well. I run a small personal guild with friends and I help them plow through general PvE content, and Renewed Justice is just too good to pass up. It’s also not too shabby in WvW in some group settings. So if you’re just getting started with the hammer, you can’t go wrong with starting at 15/30/20/5 and continue deviating from there

Also, thanks for the gif and video showing the animation cancelling. I’ve got the dodging part down but the animation cancelling needs more work. Once again, great guide.

@Brutaly
After i have see your video, i have taken my rare hammer from the bank, and i have test it in the mad king labirint.
Well now even if i continue to dislike hammer (im GS lover inside ^^) i can say that is funny, fast and powerful as hell! The slow hammer is a myth, when you know how to play it, it become an kitten killer, more fast then GS, and well, This leaves me with a bitter taste.

Explain to me the point of this “animation skipping”? It’s pretty much a waste of endurance and you actually lose DPS. In fact you don’t even recover any faster because the roll actually takes longer than the hammer swing. It’s a funny gimmick but that’s really all it is.

If you’re burning all your endurance every time you attack instead of, you know, rolling when you actually need to avoid something, you’ll just die that much faster.

The worst thing is with so many threads like this we’re significantly lessening the chance of Anet actually buffing the hammer even though the general consensus is that it sucks hardcore. Although I guess Anet devs aren’t as likely to fall for a bogus thread like this as some people here.

Although the Golem testing provides valuable information on a weapons potential use, the fact that this game relies so heavily on movement almost makes the argument moot. It’s very difficult to hit someone with the third swing and even if you can, they symbol surely won’t. The only issue with the hammer is every skill on the bar has an easily recognizable and avoidable telegraph and slow cast time.

@Akamon
Not so good infact, normally i have much better timing and aiming with both hits and dodging but as i said making clips make my comp lag like hell and then this turns into a guessing game.

@Ganzo
Cool, then the clip actually contributed, yeah its fun, its fast and its furious and it covers huge areas. I dont know if its faster hen gs but its definitely more dynamic and less predictable.

@guanglai Kangyi
1. it reduces the amount of time you are exposed to damage
2. The relative slowness of the third hit can be reduced by dodging out of reach after the second step and then perform part of the third step out of reach from the opponent. You actually run in the hit and time contact on max distance or just place the symbol at range, forcing them to move.

3. dodging after the third step makes you either get out of range (versus melee) or stay in range (versus ranged) and the dodge removes the gap between the chain and MB.

4. It exploits the range of MB which is kind of long, you dont have to be in 160 range to hit. What the real number is is unclear but somewhere between 280 and 300 is my estimate of the aoe on a static guardian.

5. The time between the third step of the animation and the first step in a chain+chain isnt productive, no value to the target is infact added. The dodge infact removes that inproductive time and adds value, the dodge in itself is value.

Check the clip again, most of the time there is room for an other dodge and versus multiple opponents there are plenty more vigor. if short on endurance there is a reason why i have energy in my weapons.

And no im not burnign all the energy when i attack, i dont roll for the sake of rolling. If there is room for not dodging ofc i dont but most of the time people actually hit back and dodging keep me out/in range depending on opponent.

Hammer needs no buff, i wouldnt mind that it estetically was made faster so more people would enjoy it but a buff, seriously, no.

And no the dps loss isnt that bad and the reason for that is that the hammer and the gameplay i support allows for very offensive choices i gear compared to if you stand at melee range 24/7. The dps is the same as if you are stationary and doing chain+mb+chain+mb etc. Ofc lower then chain only and chain+first step chain+mb but the mobility MB offers increases practical dps by a very large chunk.

Clearly you havent tried this, or at least that is how i interpreted your post when you asked for the point of animation skipping. Clearly you dont see and may i suggest you actually try it before having the types of opinions you have.

Actual experience might change your mind just as it apparently have done with other no-sayers, like Ganzo.

Once again why not be civil, its much nicer and also more productive and also kind of smart since you seem to not even have first hand experience but still is very opinionated.

Arken.3725:

Although the Golem testing provides valuable information on a weapons potential use, the fact that this game relies so heavily on movement almost makes the argument moot. It’s very difficult to hit someone with the third swing and even if you can, they symbol surely won’t. The only issue with the hammer is every skill on the bar has an easily recognizable and avoidable telegraph and slow cast time.

Regarding movement
This weapon infact offers supreme movement due to the aoe on mb and ofc range.

in reality i estimate the aoe to be an elipse with 300 width and about 600 in length.

Difficult hitting is relative and as i said its not for everyone and lot of people have issues with it. Personally i have no issues hitting, i hit almost as often as with gs or 1h sword.

Correction, the symbol always hit with at least one hit and most of the times with two since its placed around the target, not the guardian so you have infact have two “ranged” options. It doesnt matter if you hit with the chain itself. With larger symbols you always hit with two hits at least.

yes its easy to avoid, hence its not suited for one on one but as long as there are two opponents then this isnt as easy to avoid anymore. Its like fighterpilots its very common that the wingman makes the kill since he has a better angle of attack.

I hope i been clear in the guide, if its a duel weapon people want then hammer is far from optimal but never the less not useless, far from it actually.

Dawg.5376:

Hello brutality,

1)Would you play this build with a GS/Staff ? Do you feel like you lack mobility with a hammer (Not having the charge and the grapin of the sword)

Obviously not Brutaly, but I have been running a 0/15/30/20/5 GS/Staff build for a while now with great success in general PvE, dungeons (I tend to WvW on a different alt). It’s been the most fun I have had in game so far.

Today for the episode of GW2’s MythBursters, I now will question the myth of: “Does animation skipping increase your damage?”

I conducted and fraps two videos of the hammer chain attacks, one normal sequence and one with animation skipping. The videos were filmed in 30 frames per second.

I then put each clips into Adobe Photoshop CS3 and count how many frames it takes to complete the chain. I calculate from the very beginning of the first attack when you first see damage number to the time the 3rd attack Symbol of Protection damage first appears.

Here’s the results:
Normal chain attacks takes 120 frames or 4 seconds to complete applying Symbol of Protection.
Animation skipping takes 75 frames or 2.5 seconds.

So in conclusion, a good "animation skipping* is 37.5% faster than attacking normally. Does this mean it will equal to more damage? Pretty much, it will allow you to start the next chain faster. If you wonder what’s a “good” animation skipping, scroll up and look at my GIF.

Due to anonymous request, I’ve uploaded two clips regarding the animation skipping and a little explanation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDPdy8xMDTo&feature=youtu.be

If you guys need an even more thorough explanation, let me know. I’ll try my best.

Trungalung.7850:

Since there’s a lot of questions regarding animation skipping, I made a GIF for it:

Thanks man..

@Trung – WOAH, it’s that big of a difference?? just watched the video and i’ve been doing it similarly, but i’ve never gotten to cut it as short as your first demonstration! do you mind explaining how you perform this exactly execution wise? Brutaly, feel free to chime in here as well or anyone else who does this.

i have disabled auto attack to better time my attacks. so for the first two hits, it’s 1, 1 and then do you dodge immediately and then hit 1 again right after for the completion of the #1 chain? or do you hit 1, 1, 1 for the full chain and then dodge between the second and third hit? i want to say i’ve tried that and the third hit doesn’t come back in after the dodge since the dodge acts as a cancel iirc. so is it a matter of dodging right after chain hit 2 and then hitting 1 immediately?

@Brutaly – lol, does that mean i am doing it all wrong??? :/// as mentioned above, after watching Trung’s vid, i noticed i don’t cut my animation as short as that. although sometimes it’s close. i wouldn’t be able to run fraps at all on mine so i’ve never bothered. still appreciate the effort though! XDDDD especially for the one time policy haha

@ general public – just to add, the hammer may not be great in 1v1’s, but that’s precisely why you have a second set available. i don’t believe there is ONE weapon that is great in all situations. that’s why i carry every single item avaiable to me as a guardian in my inv. note i don’t play sPvP or tPvP. and if i can prep for the next battle, i’ll always switch around based on what i know is coming up. that being said, in PvE or against multiple enemies/mobs, the hammer is great and gets the job done very well.

[edited due to having watched the video. lol couldn’t wait]

I didn’t read through the entire thread, sorry if this is a repeat.

But how is this for solo leveling and general pve? I don’t do much PvP but I am looking for a strong Hammer build as it’s my favorite weapon. Would some kind of Power based build (which I couldn’t find either) serve me better?

It looks as if Trung’s animation skip and Brutaly’s animation skip affect the 3rd attack differently. Trung’s animation skip cuts off the beginning of the downward hammer swing and cancels the dodge animation, which seems to shorten the casting time of the 3rd hit as well as allowing the next chain to immediately continue. Brutaly’s animation skip cuts out the recovery animation that occurs after the 3rd hit, but replaces it with a dodge.

If my observation is correct, then there are two different ways of skipping the 3rd hammer swing. Trung’s way looks to increase dps, while Brutaly’s allows for survivability. Can someone check this observation?

@Akamon

After you see the damage of the 2nd hit, you dodge instantly then hit 1 again during the roll. This will cancel your dodge animation and enter the slam mode of the 3rd hit.

It also has another effect beside increasing your DPS. It will evade any interrupt that people try to stop you from putting up SoP. The window to interrupt is also smaller since you cut down the time needed to execute SoP.