I think the best pug build is 10/25/0/10/25 since shout reductions can come in handy in different situations since pug encounters last longer, and pugs like to cause unnecessary bubbles on lupi.
Lord Chuck I – Guardian
Chuck The Stampede – Engineer
[Lg] Agatha – Dragonbrand
Depends if you insist on carrying a greatsword I suppose. I prefer the 15% extra crit as it allows night/force sigils, bloodlust stacks, power/potion consumables and power food while keeping 100% crit. Overall the EP is higher unless you ever switch to greatsword… which I don’t. Even for aoe I just put a little more effort into lining up the sword auto penetrations. I really like that I can use a scepter as my weapon swap with this build without losing anything, which means in pugs that insist on ranging everything I can still bring huge dps without fear of instagibs.
Max dps is achieved through a gs + sword rotation. And gs is far superior to sword when it comes to clearing trash and positioning mobs. There is no reason not to carry a gs on your second set even if you use RHS.
You should know where you might have to range in a pug so you can just swap to scepter before the fight. Sometimes i run gs + scepter focus because scepter is actually pretty ridiculous for large mobs/bosses.
It really just comes down to the situation to spend the last 10 points which is why I made the guide the way I did. Like Cat says the 10/25/0/10/25 is best for pugging since fights will last longer.
In an organized group shout cd is kind of useless since things die too fast for it to matter. You mine as well trait for more power at that point. For something like Arah or Fractal you will want the perma vigor trait. RH strength is a good trait to dump 5 more points to at that point or even 5 in zeal for fractals since sword cleave sucks for things like clown car. The shout cd would be nice in fractal, but it still shouldn’t be needed since you should be running hammer build and if you still run 2 guards the hammer guard will have it and you will add even more overkill support without it traited. If you don’t need the vigor 20/25/0/0/25 with perception stacking is the best choice.
Max dps is achieved through a gs + sword rotation.
In a perfect world with full boons I disagree & have shown why with some numbers I feel to be correct
In a pug world, greatsword takes more advantage of the times you notice you’ve actually received some might stacks. The aoe capability will always be a reason to pack greatsword if you are so inclined though.
I think the best pug build is 10/25/0/10/25 since shout reductions can come in handy in different situations since pug encounters last longer, and pugs like to cause unnecessary bubbles on lupi.
thats just wrong. 10-25-0-25-10 is better for pugs because of empowering might.
10-25-0-10-25 is good for organized groups when you dont like rhs.
thats just wrong. 10-25-0-25-10 is better for pugs because of empowering might.
10-25-0-10-25 is good for organized groups when you dont like rhs.
That’s just wrong. The 20 in virtues gives you more access to condi removal since you can’t trust your teammates to do so in a pug. I personally would never run 10-25-0-25-10 since I don’t like the low endurance damage modifier, and EM is lack luster IMO to lose all that condi removal(and if you don’t need condi removal for a particular encounter, swap it for 20% more damage with unscathed contender while maintaining master of consecrations. Or you could run master of consecrated WoR and 50% longer SOA for fights like alphard. 20 in virtues is clutch).
Lord Chuck I – Guardian
Chuck The Stampede – Engineer
[Lg] Agatha – Dragonbrand
and where do you need condition removal in pve except if you are trying to provoke an ooze war in arah path 1?
and as mentioned above, rhs doesnt affect reflections + it only affects 1h sword. so its pretty much waste considering a gs, sword/focus rotation is higher dps than pure 1h sword.
and where do you need condition removal in pve except if you are trying to provoke an ooze war in arah path 1?
I added more to the post about other options you can swap it out for. But I have seen a many pug die from the 1st boss in arah P3, due to being immobilized or slowly dying of poison. So…. I’m trying to help the common man out. If you think your build is superior for the every day pugger, then please explain in more detail so the newer guardians who still pug can understand all the benefits.
EDIT:
1?
and as mentioned above, rhs doesnt affect reflections + it only affects 1h sword. so its pretty much waste considering a gs, sword/focus rotation is higher dps than pure 1h sword.
Is that in response to me? I doubt it since I don’t talk about RHS, just checking though.
Lord Chuck I – Guardian
Chuck The Stampede – Engineer
[Lg] Agatha – Dragonbrand
Not a fan empowering might. The buff radius is kind of small. Pugs are often very spread out.
I will concede that gs5 pull is a great way of forcing Pugs to bunch up mobs.
I absolutely do not agree, simply because you always have a organized group where you can maximum your dps and do not need to consider surviving for you own. This build is very misleading. The way I see guardian is that you cannot do damage or span skills if you are down by running glass dps build. Same way as I play thief.
I do agree that EM + AH is selfish, or not? Because only if you live can you continue supporting the team. The guardian should definitely be the last one standing even in a wipe. So from this perspective, AH is the best support for the team, especially in high end pve.
I absolutely do not agree, simply because you always have a organized group where you can maximum your dps and do not need to consider the suitability for you own. This build is very misleading. The way I see guardian is that you cannot do damage or span skills if you are down by running glass dps build. Same way as I play thief.
I do agree that EM + AH is selfish, or not? Because only if you live can you continue supporting the team. The guardian should definitely be the last one standing even in a wipe. So from this perspective, AH is the best support for the team, especially in high end pve.
What do you mean by high end PVE? Like Fractal 40+? Also, AH teaches people bad habits. Like running things just to get boons. When consecrations are generally the better route for most content. Just run Knight’s armor if you need help staying alive. AH is pure bad….
Lord Chuck I – Guardian
Chuck The Stampede – Engineer
[Lg] Agatha – Dragonbrand
I absolutely do not agree, simply because you always have a organized group where you can maximum your dps and do not need to consider surviving for you own. This build is very misleading. The way I see guardian is that you cannot do damage or span skills if you are down by running glass dps build. Same way as I play thief.
I do agree that EM + AH is selfish, or not? Because only if you live can you continue supporting the team. The guardian should definitely be the last one standing even in a wipe. So from this perspective, AH is the best support for the team, especially in high end pve.
I added a how do I survive section. It’s a long list of stuff you have at your disposal. The builds I went over give the right support as well as great dps. Guardian is one of the highest sustainable dps classes in the game and isn’t worth building it to tank and lose things that would help your group survive like blind spam, vuln spam, condition removal, and great dps so you can facetank and hit like a wet noodle. I still pug once and awhile and do fine running the builds I listed as ones I personal use that are the max dps versions and I do fine. It takes some time to get used to dps guardian after running the AH facetank builds. You will become a better player and do more for your group then you could ever dream of compared to running AH builds in the process.
The same can be said about your thief. Survival comes from playing the class properly. You can just chain black powder on mobs and laugh as they can’t do anything to you or your group. Do smoke screen against foes with projectiles, stealth past trash or just skip whole events like this http://youtu.be/YerTi1PM6YU , use pistol whip and evade, or just dodge when needed. Again you will be keeping you and your group alive doing the proper support and good dps at the same time. I started playing glass theif in fractals and can see how OP they are and I do fine.
I would just give it a shot and learn how to play the classes to their full potential rather than run a build from 6+ months ago when people were still learning the game and didn’t know any better. If your struggling just put on a set of knights gear and run the hammer build since it will give you more survival and group support than AH as well as hit harder.
This may be a noob question but why don’t you take 30 in valor for the extra crit damage? The ‘meta’ is to get as much dps as you can because most sources of damage can be avoided, but you’re missing out on like 30% crit damage by not putting anything in valor.
The only place you can take points from is virtues, since Radiance and zeal are so powerful for Dps. You do gain a fair bit of Dps, but you lose a portion of that Dps through power of the virtuous. You also lose consecration mastery and absolute resolution which are both very handy. You also may lose vigor from honour depending on build.
Dps is great, but that’s a huge amount of group survivability you give up in exchange for a tiny bit more Dps. Valor is a rather selfish line.
I have just ;levelled up my guardian and want some knight’s gear in it.
Where do I swap the knight’s gear?
Helm, chest, leggings or shoulders, boots, gloves?
And which would be the alternate main set zerk or assassin?
Thanks.
I’m just testing out the build eventually I’ll swap to full zerker as I did with my Warrior meta build. Just for starting up which armor composition would be good.
I have just ;levelled up my guardian and want some knight’s gear in it.
Where do I swap the knight’s gear?
Helm, chest, leggings or shoulders, boots, gloves?
And which would be the alternate main set zerk or assassin?
Thanks.
Get ascended zerker trinkets and weapons and an exotic knights armor set. Craft ascended zerk gloves, boots, shoulders and assassins chest, pants, helm to be optimal.
Get ascended zerker trinkets and weapons and an exotic knights armor set. Craft ascended zerk gloves, boots, shoulders and assassins chest, pants, helm to be optimal.
Didn’t know guards were doing this too. You still stacking perception? I usually just stack perception and food plus warriors to get my crit chance at 99 last I checked? You go Sin armor to swap to bloodlust?
Lord Chuck I – Guardian
Chuck The Stampede – Engineer
[Lg] Agatha – Dragonbrand
Get ascended zerker trinkets and weapons and an exotic knights armor set. Craft ascended zerk gloves, boots, shoulders and assassins chest, pants, helm to be optimal.
Didn’t know guards were doing this too. You still stacking perception? I usually just stack perception and food plus warriors to get my crit chance at 99 last I checked? You go Sin armor to swap to bloodlust?
Nike did calculations and found that to be better. The difference is only <1% no matter if you have RH strength or not. If you run RH use bloodlust and if not perception. I usually just run hammer for fractal and 20/25/0/0/25 for everything else and stack perception. The crit chance from that with full zerk gear (armor exotic) + banner + 25 perception stacks + fury + minotaur steak = 93.71% so you still have a bit more to go.
Some1 ever tried 10/25/0/25(Writ of persitence)/10(I if VI is not needed) Hammer+ GS rotation?
In my tests Hammer AA+MB (or AA only) is pretty equal to sword AA. So, this build could be a alternative idea for people who want to play with the hammer and/or gs instead of 1h sword.
Proper use of MB can give your team a few more mightstacks. Disadvantage is…stupid light field on hammer AA Chain…..
Some1 ever tried 10/25/0/25(Writ of persitence)/10(I if VI is not needed) Hammer+ GS rotation?
In my tests Hammer AA+MB (or AA only) is pretty equal to sword AA. So, this build could be a alternative idea for people who want to play with the hammer and/or gs instead of 1h sword.
Proper use of MB can give your team a few more mightstacks. Disadvantage is…stupid light field on hammer AA Chain…..
The 15/25/0/20/10 would be better than 25 in honor since you can keep up around 5-6 vuln if you auto attack with hammer and you won’t trigger elusive power most of the time between not having to dodge at trash mobs and perma vigor for when you do have to dodge. You also wouldn’t want to compare it to sword only since the build is to do gs + sword/focus rotations. Doing tests on the indestructible golem with no gear buffs I got a few seconds quicker kill doing 15/25/0/20/10 hammer + gs doing the normal gs burst rotation → 3x hammer chains → gs burst compared to 10/25/0/10/25 gs + sword rotations. The difference in dps is pretty minimal considering other things but the whole reason to run hammer is for perma prot. Just doing hammer is a noticeable loss compared to the gs + sword rotations, but it isn’t huge. That is why you run hammer if you need the prot and the gs + sword if you don’t and focus on dps. Both builds do great damage but suite different needs.
Ok, I already wrote a lot more, but I should really keep a low profile, so here is the short version:
So, if i am a masochistic Hammer/GS fetishist who loves Pugging fractals lvl 49, i realy need to have a second Guardian with xxx/25 or something who can purge more efficently? (Unfortunately there is not enough place in the group-description, to say all the things need to be said) … well… the ppl don`t read it anyway….
Atm I run with (15/25/0/20/10) http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUEQJASRlUgiC3FSHEfIFSWhC0mBAhQ1HiHMFYkHB-jwBBYfDRjKYIaZmERjJPoFXFRjVXDT5iIqWKgIGGB-e
But It bugs me to spend so much Points in Writh of Persistance and Master of Consecrations.
I mean… well… I loose 3% Vunerability and three ticks dmg @1k/mob (and have a shorter timeframe).
So what if I go for an unbuffed-higher over-all-stat-pool?
Maybe I didn`t think this through, but it says in this thread, that Crit-Chance is much more important than stacking Power and Crit-dmg. On the other hand, some ppl wrote about this matter… but I don’t see a very good alternative… Perhaps somebody can do the mats and combine it with real-combat-situation- knowledge
Is my dmg-modifier/support loss to big? (Regarding the PuG-Fact, that ideal Combat- and Buff-situations are rare enough?).
If you don’t like Writ of Persistance or Mantra of Consecration, maybe Guardian isn’t the class for you. A guardian who wont use MoC is like a warrior who wont use a banner.
I was watching your fractal video(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYg2_WU_7rA&feature=youtu.be) and I do not see your VOJ refreshing when the adds die. Are those adds not procing the refresh, or are you running something other than 25 into radiance in this vid?
I was watching your fractal video(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYg2_WU_7rA&feature=youtu.be) and I do not see your VOJ refreshing when the adds die. Are those adds not procing the refresh, or are you running something other than 25 into radiance in this vid?
Most summoned enemies won’t proc it like stacking sigils.
This days im just using much more GS that 1H sword in the rotation or indungeons or Arah and just for fun in PVE events, im thinking to change from 10/30/0/5/25 to 15/25/0/5/25 to win Weakness in GS symbol over the RHS.
Should i do this or stick to 10/30/0/5/25 or change it ? Another option is go 10 honor for the shout CD trait.
This days im just using much more GS that 1H sword in the rotation or indungeons or Arah and just for fun in PVE events, im thinking to change from 10/30/0/5/25 to 15/25/0/5/25 to win Weakness in GS symbol over the RHS.
Should i do this or stick to 10/30/0/5/25 or change it ? Another option is go 10 honor for the shout CD trait.
thx
I would suggest running one of the 3 I have. You won’t be able to maintain the symbol for long so you won’t do much vuln with gs alone. It’s also short vuln so it will overwrite better vuln which would hurt your group if they have good sources of vuln. If your group sucks for stacking vuln it would be ok. The only time I would really run it is fractals since sword cleave sucks for some parts and I just use hammer instead. It’s great for the hammer build though since you can maintain the symbol and around 5-6 stacks from just auto attacking.
Ok thx a lot , i stick to 10/30/0/5/25 then, i was using your 20/25/0/0/25 and i really like to dynamic event with GS and easy dungeons where we dont need vigor and i was searching something hybrid to do Arah and Fractals without Hammer without change the build many times , its a shame that we dont have any fast change build method like the GW1 templates.
For those who know my post history, I have bad wrists (due to a bus accident). So atm I’m forced into bunker-form builds (mostly Healway variants), simply because they allow me to react slower (and prevent RL Agony :p ).
But after the ‘correction’ to PoV (and the new heal skill), I’ve finally become interested in DPS builds.
Would it be possible to stay permanently in Knights armor (currently in Cleric), keep my existing Zerk Ascended trinkets, and adjust traits? If so, which GS layout would work as a ‘base’ to build from?
Note I prefer to use one build in both PvE and WvW (with the ability to just swap weapons or individual major traits), so I’ll be making some adjustments of my own to suit. I fully understand that I’m gimping myself in both by doing this, but in the end I’m more concerned about preventing my RL ‘gimping’ from getting any worse (plus my guild puts fun above all, so they’ve been fine with my current setup – it’s just that I’m not fine with it any more).
“The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever.” — Me
I like to view MMOs through the lazy eye of a Systems Admin, and the critical eye of a
Project Manager. You’ve been warned. ;-)
Running knights armor + zerk trinkets with the builds should be fine. That is what a lot do at first or stick with. You won’t give up a ton of damage and you avoid getting 1 shotted by more things. Given your situation the hammer builds would probably be better since there is a lot less work with doing dps rotations since the optimal rotation with hammer is press 1 and you will have perma prot and more health.
Having the same build for pve and wvw isn’t good. You should run different builds and gear for both. It’s annoying but they are 2 different modes that require 2 different setups to be more effective than just running the same one.
Obal,
If I mainly PUG, should I switch out some of my Berserker gear for Assassin’s to get my crit-chance up? And if so, which pieces should I switch out? (exotic gear, btw) Thanks.
Obal,
If I mainly PUG, should I switch out some of my Berserker gear for Assassin’s to get my crit-chance up? And if so, which pieces should I switch out? (exotic gear, btw) Thanks.
Get head, chest, pants assassins like Nike suggested. It will raise your EP more than full zerk but it isn’t a big diff.
So, in the 15/25/0/20/10 Hammer build, I was wondering if taking 25 in Zeal instead of 10 in virtues is worth it for the Symbolic Power (since hammer/gs would be constant symbol) if MoC isn’t needed. Basically, is the symbol damage increase (and 100 power) high enough to be worth it.
If you take out MoC then yes 25/25/0/20/0 would be the best option. Still, I stick with MoC since all I use hammer for is fractals and MoC is OP there. It would be a decent boost to DPS but I’d rather still take MoC.
If MoC is not needed, u can switch it to I unscathed contender which is pretty strong too.
About 50% uptime will give u more dmg then 10 more in the first tree. > 10% dmg
25% ~ 5% more dmg.
Especially if u´re using MB to trigger fire/other kombofields intead of spamming AA.
How’s 10/0/0/30/30 hammer with longer symbol compared to Sw/F builds in term of DPS? I just want to know the numbers, like 15% inferior or something.
Assuming following factors are always active: 10% when endurance is not full / 20% when aegis is up / 10% to burning targets / 3% from number of boons.
fadeaway made a chart which you can look at to compare builds but 10/0/0/30/30 isn’t one of them and I wouldn’t suggest that spread. Also, you don’t just use sword/focus you use gs to burst and do rotations so I would factor that in too. You do the same with hammer for easy mobs and bosses. I guess you can compare 10/25/0/10/25 to 15/15/0/20/20 since they are the pug friendly balanced variations. He factored in 5 boons but not unscathed.
honour isn’t great support (pov is overrated, empowering might is useless), virtues 30 isn’t much more support than 20 virtues. on the other hand 15 radiance is blind + vuln stacking…
I’m hesitant because I can’t seem to spam F1 fast enough in mass trash clearing. And 15 radiance is almost useless in single boss fights. On the other hand, I get 10% damage mod from honor and 3-5% from virtue with two free trait slots. ._.
Oh, and 15 minor trait in Zeal is.. kinda underwhelming. Especially in boss fights, only 1-2 stack of vuln.
I like PoV because shouts are instant-cast like Virtue of Resolve’s cleanse. Pop them and conditions go bye-bye right away.
normally you don’t have that many shouts on your bar because you need consecrations. POV also makes you save your shouts for condition removal rather than using them for the buffs they provide (like SYG stability)
in any case, absolute resolution + purging flames is more than enough condi cleansing anyway, so I don’t see the point of going heavy honour.
don’t forget that 25 radiance is also a damage modifier with superior uptime to honour 25, and that it also gives you the 10% sword modifier. even if you don’t use a sword it’s still better because 0 radiance = pathetic crit chance.
I’m hesitant because I can’t seem to spam F1 fast enough in mass trash clearing. And 15 radiance is almost useless in single boss fights.
If you have a mouse with more than 2 or 3 buttons bind f1 to a mouse button it’s really easy to spam it that way, when we clear trash we tend to get up to 25 might just from spamming this, plus all the vuln from the blind it’s one of the strongest guardian trait for clearing trash in my opinion.
- “No tears, please. It’s a waste of good suffering.”
DPS Rotation (Hammer + Greatsword) = GS2 -> GS4 -> GS3 -> GS5 if no pull is needed -> GS auto until GS2 is up -> GS2 -> Swap to Hammer and do 3 AA chains (If need to dodge or use Mighty Blow then complete current chain while swap becomes available and swap) -> repeat GS and Hammer rotation.
[…]
Why GS2 → GS4 → GS3 and not GS4 → GS3 → GS2 to inflit several stacks of vulnerability before our bursty GS2?
