Guild Wars 2

Blasino.3128:

then use knights and a ruby orb… I suggested either one. So what would be the issue of going knights or a combo?

And how are you calculating this to a millimeter?

i cant put on knight because ill lose vitality and then i cant get more without unbalancing all… it’s a really difficult situation…

anyway i have some fixed parameters:
toughness -> capped at 1500 in order to don’t die too fast
vitality -> 1000 more hp togheter with thougness make you really harder to kill
precision -> a cap of 50% (with food) is enough for pve (and wvw ofc) because if you want to get more (for exemple 60% +) you need to greatly improve your crit damage and you can’t since you have to cap before toughness and vitality.
critical damage -> read above, 100% is enough to deal massive damage
power -> the only flexible parameter: the more power you have, the better is.

so that was the only build i finded who respected every single paramenter

I will say I went and swapped to a spec discussed here and posted by Foofad (below). I’ll say this. It isn’t for the beginner. And…if you come from a supporting role build, say healing, swap hats because you can’t just go flying into the middle of a battle and expect to survive any longer – lol.

I’m not even sure if the build (any sole DPS build for that matter) is good for a average player to be honest. It provides a metric ton of DPS but if you don’t know when to bail forget it. You will be a loot bag in a matter of seconds. However, on the other hand play smart, mitigate the initial burst, then usually it is a win and loot bag.

Initially Thiefs using this build mow through my 16K in heal leaving me only about 2500 or so left. This morning I’ve actually got it to where I don’t worry about it and go on the offensive taking them out instead. The play style seems faster. Much faster than what I’m used to. And like I noted, you can’t just jump into the furthest target player behind everyone and attack You, er, I mean me, need to be a bit more selective and oppertunistic I guess.

What a bad idea to do this after a WvW server reset weekend Tarnished Coast and Dragonbrand are both highly populated servers that always seem to roam the field in very large groups. Camps, yaks, and even outposts have someone in a duo hanging out and guarding. Then when you do find one, they (rightly so) fight for a second, then turn and beat feet out and bring friends So far this weekend has been a relearning of playing an offensive guardian.

Its tough (for me). Interesting to see how many of you have been doing this for a while now like it is nothing – lol.

Nice build.
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.4|c.1g.h15.d.1g.h2|1.1g.h15|1c.74.1g.74.1c.74.1g.74.1c.74.1g.a7|4s.0.1c.67.1c.67.1g.67

Hey Crapgame.6519,
i’m happy for you to find here a good build. I will also suggest you to compare my last build with the one posted by foodfad and you will find that mine has more in any stats (power, vitality, crit damage and especially crit chance) and ofc a better survivability. The only difference is the stack of fury wich is very important but with only a 5% chance on hit… which is pretty hard to activate and can’t be used for burst damage.

Both builds are hard to use but with mine you have a better survivability in 1vs1 and zerg vs zerg. See you

Kjeldoran.3849:

Blasino.3128:

then use knights and a ruby orb… I suggested either one. So what would be the issue of going knights or a combo?

And how are you calculating this to a millimeter?

i cant put on knight because ill lose vitality and then i cant get more without unbalancing all… it’s a really difficult situation…

anyway i have some fixed parameters:
toughness -> capped at 1500 in order to don’t die too fast
vitality -> 1000 more hp togheter with thougness make you really harder to kill
precision -> a cap of 50% (with food) is enough for pve (and wvw ofc) because if you want to get more (for exemple 60% +) you need to greatly improve your crit damage and you can’t since you have to cap before toughness and vitality.
critical damage -> read above, 100% is enough to deal massive damage
power -> the only flexible parameter: the more power you have, the better is.

so that was the only build i finded who respected every single paramenter

Ok, so those are your parameters. But how did you come to them? What are your calculations that determine those things are optimal?

Kjeldoran.3849:

Both builds are hard to use but with mine you have a better survivability in 1vs1 and zerg vs zerg. See you

What? Mine has 100 more armor and 1500 more health than yours.

Crapgame.6519:

snip

What did you run before this? The damage you get in Altruistic Healing builds like this is mediocre at best, there are much higher sustained and burst builds out there. This is also way, way tankier than most zerked out burst builds, too. I’m not sure if more tank is going to help you out much.

foofad.5162:

Kjeldoran.3849:

Both builds are hard to use but with mine you have a better survivability in 1vs1 and zerg vs zerg. See you

What? Mine has 100 more armor and 1500 more health than yours.

Crapgame.6519:

snip

What did you run before this? The damage you get in Altruistic Healing builds like this is mediocre at best, there are much higher sustained and burst builds out there. This is also way, way tankier than most zerked out burst builds, too. I’m not sure if more tank is going to help you out much.

Me? I was running a healing build with Clerics gear and various weapons. I was just saying I am using the build you linked on the 2nd page. And that it takes some getting used to coming from a support / out last everyone build.

In short – try has hard as I might, I always end up charging in thinking I can mitigate the incoming damage like my previous build. I can’t. So it makes me think a bit more on how I enter a fight. Especially around solo roaming and thief duo’s.

Your post below – sorry for the confusion:
——————————————————————————————-

foofad.5162

Switching around 10 points and leaving everything else roughly the same yields this:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.4|c.1g.h15.d.1g.h2|1.1g.h15|1c.74.1g.74.1c.74.1g.74.1c.74.1g.a7|4s.0.1c.67.1c.67.1g.67.1g.67.8g.67|a2.0.u64b.u28b.0|55.7|w.17.19.18.1i|e

Has higher effective health, and more damage, using cheaper runes and only an ascended amulet. On top of that, it has extremely high Fury uptime due to the combination of SY! and Citadel runes.

foofad.5162:

Kjeldoran.3849:

Both builds are hard to use but with mine you have a better survivability in 1vs1 and zerg vs zerg. See you

What? Mine has 100 more armor and 1500 more health than yours.

yes actually you get 148 more vitality which is a good quantity… but you damage is really ridicolous (more than 1000 less EP) so you survivability is still nothing inside a zerg or in 1vs1 because you cant simply kill anyone.

foofad.5162:

What did you run before this? The damage you get in Altruistic Healing builds like this is mediocre at best, there are much higher sustained and burst builds out there. This is also way, way tankier than most zerked out burst builds, too. I’m not sure if more tank is going to help you out much.

“Mediocre damage” i dont think
yesterday i had some wvw and with the previous build (less damage and survivability) i hitted for someting like 6k every Wirling Wrath and 5k Zealotr defense which is a pretty nice burst of 11k and can allow you to 2 shot some elementalists or thiefs (always if they dont run away or try something to escape… because this is gw2 not wow … ).
Another important difference is the crit chance which in my build is the double… and you can easily understand that with 22.29% crit chance you chance to crit really a miracle and even with a crit you dps i lower than a full tank gear

PS: tried yesterday the second combo, from my guide, inside a zerg; 7.5k aoe istant damage ^^

Anyway now i’m working on a way to optimize the use of Hammer in the build because chill for 4 sec will be really usefull… just trying to optimize that block…

Blasino.3128:

Kjeldoran.3849:

Blasino.3128:

then use knights and a ruby orb… I suggested either one. So what would be the issue of going knights or a combo?

And how are you calculating this to a millimeter?

i cant put on knight because ill lose vitality and then i cant get more without unbalancing all… it’s a really difficult situation…

anyway i have some fixed parameters:
toughness -> capped at 1500 in order to don’t die too fast
vitality -> 1000 more hp togheter with thougness make you really harder to kill
precision -> a cap of 50% (with food) is enough for pve (and wvw ofc) because if you want to get more (for exemple 60% +) you need to greatly improve your crit damage and you can’t since you have to cap before toughness and vitality.
critical damage -> read above, 100% is enough to deal massive damage
power -> the only flexible parameter: the more power you have, the better is.

so that was the only build i finded who respected every single paramenter

Ok, so those are your parameters. But how did you come to them? What are your calculations that determine those things are optimal?

ok i’ll explain but is very hard to understand…
1) my purpose is to optimize stats not only in the offensive way but also in the defensive one.
2) 1500 toughness is the perfect quantity related to vitality because:
-> if you drop below in order to get more hp you will find that for every 1 less point in toughnes you will gain 0.5 vitality (or less) without lose crit chance and/or crit damage and/or power.
-> if you get more than 1500 toughness you will surely lose power and/or crit chance in order to improve your vitality
-> with 1500 toughness (i’m not sure if this is the exactly quantity but if not it’s really near to 1500, maybe 1495 or 1512) you will get the best balance between toughness and vitality.

ok now some numbers to show my calculations:
every 33 toughness are 1% less damage
1% less damage is something like:
1000 damages -> 10 less hp lost
2000 damages -> 20 less hp lost
the averange damage is 2000 so basically you gain 20 hp every attack
(if you want to consider full life it’s 150 more hp but you can’t because of the great quantity of regenrations and heals)

as i said above every 1 toughness is 0.5 vitality (try it yourselves) so:
every 33 thougness correspond to 16.5 vitality which is 165 more hp
that can be considerate a good exchange but it isnt basically because in every fight you will always get more than 8 hits (20hp x 8 = 160) and because:
-> if you have 160 more hp but you take more damage the effectiveness of your healing skill is reduced by 160 points
-> if you havent 160 more hp but you take 1% less damage the effectiveness of your healing skill is improved or simply optimized.

that limit (of 1500 thougness) is defined by the equip itself because there isnt an equip which give you power/precision/vitality so you have to mix soldier and berserker and you still get or excessive vitality with a great loss of precision or the right quantity of precision and bit more vitality but with a great loss of thougness and/or power

so that all… 1500 (or around 1500) is the best quantity of thougness to optimize you character defense without waste your damage or crit chance.

Please tell me if you find anoher equip mix which allows you to keep up 50% precision, about 100% crit damage (without food) and about the same power but allows you to exchange toughness for vitality with a rate greater than 0.5

Do you mind showing the math as to how you got the 1500 toughness? Meaning can you show your baseline and comparisons, like whats the numbers look like with 1450 toughness and why isn’t it optimal or 1550 toughness?

And does this 1500 toughness apply to all classes or just guardian/warrior?

And what about your other parameters? Can you show the math?

Where did you get the average damage is 2000?

I appreciate the explanation but seeing the actual calculations with the formulas, tables, or graphing you used would help me since I’m a numbers person.

Sorry to interject guys but you are all getting carried away by theorycrafting at this point and forgetting 2 important things:

- Condition pressure from necroes right now is considerably more deadly than lets say a direct damage from a thief or warrior.
- When you are focused you will die, no amount of toughness will save you.
- Poison is being tossed around in WvW like candy, which makes pure sustain considerably less effective
With these 2 points, we can conclude that:
Vit > toughness.
Extra condition removal aside PoV is needed.

Therefore, soldier runes and lyssa runes >>> Citadel, divinity, and whatnot

You might want to consider a healthy dose of PVT armor /w lyssa/soldier runes and zerker accessories.

In fact, i would try to min max you build based on soldier/lyssa runes, not the other way around

Kjeldoran.3849:

“Mediocre damage” i dont think

Considering the 35k Whirling Wraths the guys are pulling in the Guardian DPS thread, yeah – it’s mediocre.

Kjeldoran.3849:

foofad.5162:

What? Mine has 100 more armor and 1500 more health than yours.

yes actually you get 148 more vitality which is a good quantity… but you damage is really ridicolous (more than 1000 less EP) so you survivability is still nothing inside a zerg or in 1vs1 because you cant simply kill anyone.

Again, not sure what you’re talking about. Your build has 134 more effective power, mine has 3132 more effective health (mostly from higher HP), and that’s without using more than an ascended amulet.

With ascended gear, there is no difference in effective power and mine still has more health and general survivability from using Omnomberry Pie instead of squash soup.

These are the builds I’m comparing, in case there is some confusion; mine is

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.4|c.1g.h15.d.1g.h2|1.1g.h15|1c.74.1g.74.1c.74.1g.74.1c.74.1g.a7|4s.0.1c.67.1c.67.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|a2.0.u64b.u28b.0|55.7|w.17.19.18.1i|e

And this is the last one you posted;

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|1.1g.h1|c.1g.h1.d.1g.h4|1g.a7.1g.a7.1c.a7.1g.9c.1g.a1.1n.a4|2s.d1e.2s.0.3s.0.3s.0.2s.d1e.2s.d1e|0.5.u54b.u28b.5|39.1|w.17.18.19.1i|e

Hunter.4783:

Sorry to interject guys but you are all getting carried away by theorycrafting at this point and forgetting 2 important things:

- Condition pressure from necroes right now is considerably more deadly than lets say a direct damage from a thief or warrior.
- When you are focused you will die, no amount of toughness will save you.
- Poison is being tossed around in WvW like candy, which makes pure sustain considerably less effective
With these 2 points, we can conclude that:
Vit > toughness.
Extra condition removal aside PoV is needed.

Therefore, soldier runes and lyssa runes >>> Citadel, divinity, and whatnot

You might want to consider a healthy dose of PVT armor /w lyssa/soldier runes and zerker accessories.

In fact, i would try to min max you build based on soldier/lyssa runes, not the other way around

1) for conditions i have a strong quantity of removers (which your build has not but ill explain this later)
2) sure if you are focused you will die… so this is the wrong point of view sorry.
3) read 1 and anyway is better to have tougness because poison damage is ridicolous but your incapacity to heal will lead you to death if you cant mitigate damage

vitality → toughness is really wrong… i think you havent learned anything from wvw.
Vitality = thougness and you need to optimize both if you want to survive a bit more
only vitality? squished by the first zerker
only thougness? squished by the first full condition
the right is in the middle (said someone…)

Kjeldoran.3849:

Hunter.4783:

Sorry to interject guys but you are all getting carried away by theorycrafting at this point and forgetting 2 important things:

- Condition pressure from necroes right now is considerably more deadly than lets say a direct damage from a thief or warrior.
- When you are focused you will die, no amount of toughness will save you.
- Poison is being tossed around in WvW like candy, which makes pure sustain considerably less effective
With these 2 points, we can conclude that:
Vit > toughness.
Extra condition removal aside PoV is needed.

Therefore, soldier runes and lyssa runes >>> Citadel, divinity, and whatnot

You might want to consider a healthy dose of PVT armor /w lyssa/soldier runes and zerker accessories.

In fact, i would try to min max you build based on soldier/lyssa runes, not the other way around

1) for conditions i have a strong quantity of removers (which your build has not but ill explain this later)
2) sure if you are focused you will die… so this is the wrong point of view sorry.
3) read 1 and anyway is better to have tougness because poison damage is ridicolous but your incapacity to heal will lead you to death if you cant mitigate damage

vitality -> toughness is really wrong… i think you havent learned anything from wvw.
Vitality = thougness and you need to optimize both if you want to survive a bit more
only vitality? squished by the first zerker
only thougness? squished by the first full condition
the right is in the middle (said someone…)

When did i EVER say not to use toughness?
I don’t remember posting any specific builds either
I am merely suggesting that since conditions in general are more deadly in WvW than BS thieves, GC warriors or izerkers, you would need more vit than toughness.

I did indirectly mention that you are on the right track by using lyssa runes yet i didn’t specifically aim my post at anyone in particular.

So relax guy, no one is calling you out, don’t be so paranoid. I realize you are getting needless fire from the forum top theorycrafters with extremely big egoes but its not enough reason to jump on others needlessly

foofad.5162:

Considering the 35k Whirling Wraths the guys are pulling in the Guardian DPS thread, yeah – it’s mediocre.

I hope you are kidding, right? we are talking about playable classes… PLAYABLE which is different from “look this kitten ed crit on a stupid mob with 25 vulnerability while i have 25 might, tons of boon, 25 stack of any sigil, fury, zerker gear, a sure hitting skill, aegis (? do you think you can use 20% bonus from aegin in pvp ahaha), allies banners, food against mob classes and tons of damage increasers”.
Or do you want to tank again about stunningstyle videos? you still confuse “entertaining” with “good one”. Please stop this useless discussion as every your discussion before.

foofad.5162:

Again, not sure what you’re talking about. Your build has 134 more effective power, mine has 3132 more effective health (mostly from higher HP), and that’s without using more than an ascended amulet.

With ascended gear, there is no difference in effective power and mine still has more health and general survivability from using Omnomberry Pie instead of squash soup.
These are the builds I’m comparing, in case there is some confusion; mine is

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.4|c.1g.h15.d.1g.h2|1.1g.h15|1c.74.1g.74.1c.74.1g.74.1c.74.1g.a7|4s.0.1c.67.1c.67.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|a2.0.u64b.u28b.0|55.7|w.17.19.18.1i|e

And this is the last one you posted;
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|1.1g.h1|c.1g.h1.d.1g.h4|1g.a7.1g.a7.1c.a7.1g.9c.1g.a1.1n.a4|2s.d1e.2s.0.3s.0.3s.0.2s.d1e.2s.d1e|0.5.u54b.u28b.5|39.1|w.17.18.19.1i|e

[/quote]
oh man man man… dont try to trick me, i know you want to be considered as the best one… in everything… but you aren’t ^^

so lets’ explain something… again and for last time i hope.
your build was 10/0/30/30/0 so it’s normal you had more power than mine … with my traits (0/5/30/30/5) you have 103 less power (-1)

you have exactly 148 more vitality (1480 hp) wich make you survivability surely better… but as i said before YOUR dps is meaningless with 600 less Effective Power that mean you can’t kill anyone in wvw unless it’s afk… very good.
Your survivability is still lower and i dont suggest you to look at Effective Health of the build calculator because it strongly depends from your ability and isn’t something you can calculate with precision… so your 3000 more effective hp can be 0 more hp if you do the wrong action (-2)

Your precision, in the end, is still nothing because you used 2 foods to improve it and it’s still under 50% wich is ridicolous for a build based on crits and “Omnomberry Pie” so you effective damage is really low on both crits and not.

Thank you for participation

Hunter.4783:

When did i EVER say not to use toughness?
I don’t remember posting any specific builds either
I am merely suggesting that since conditions in general are more deadly in WvW than BS thieves, GC warriors or izerkers, you would need more vit than toughness.

I did indirectly mention that you are on the right track by using lyssa runes yet i didn’t specifically aim my post at anyone in particular.

So relax guy, no one is calling you out, don’t be so paranoid. I realize you are getting needless fire from the forum top theorycrafters with extremely big egoes but its not enough reason to jump on others needlessly

sorry man i confused you for Foodfad which is really unbearable (look to the reference to his build)… i’m not paranoic but i can’t tollerate such attitudes.

returning at your post i only wanted to show that the right way is to equilibrate thougness and vitality… why are you so angry for that information?
Second i never told something like “you said: dont use toughness”… so dont be so hasty i’m not killing anyone

No hard feelings, i understand how you feel. The problem with this forum is that everyone acts as if they are the best player out there, constantly own people 3v1 while in full zerker gear, wipe out 40v10 raids every day, clear lvl 48 fractals naked with only a zerker greatsword.

Oh, and they have hot girlfriends and a job that pays 100 grand a year.

Now back on topic

Y

Hunter.4783:

No hard feelings, i understand how you feel. The problem with this forum is that everyone acts as if they are the best player out there, constantly own people 3v1 while in full zerker gear, wipe out 40v10 raids every day, clear lvl 48 fractals naked with only a zerker greatsword.

Oh, and they have hot girlfriends and a job that pays 100 grand a year.

Now back on topic

Y

ahahah what? XD i’m not sure of the last part of your post… what “Y” mean? and referred to what?

anyway the problem is that i’m only trying to optimize my build and every help will be well accepted but i cant tollerate something like “your dps is meaningless” or “this is kitten” or “you CAN’T do this and that” because these are really stupid answers especially if you (refered to foodfad and more) can’t argue your discussion with real information but only with presumptions.

[update] confirmed the previous build as a good one and added to main post

Kjeldoran.3849:

foofad.5162:

Considering the 35k Whirling Wraths the guys are pulling in the Guardian DPS thread, yeah – it’s mediocre.

I hope you are kidding, right? we are talking about playable classes… PLAYABLE which is different from “look this kitten ed crit on a stupid mob with 25 vulnerability while i have 25 might, tons of boon, 25 stack of any sigil, fury, zerker gear, a sure hitting skill, aegis (do you think you can use 20% bonus from aegin in pvp? ahaha), allies banners, food against mob classes and tons of damage increasers”.
Or do you want to tank again about stunningstyle videos? you still confuse “entertaining” with “good one”. Please stop this useless discussion as every your discussion before.

I have builds that regularly stack 25 Might and 12 Vuln, with plenty of damage modifiers. If you pop Retreat right before major attacks like Whirling Wrath or Mighty Blow or what have you, it’s very easy to score the extra bonus damage from Unscathed Contender. Anyone in a party with a warrior is going to have plenty of Vuln on target, with banners and all sorts of other fun buffs. There’s nothing untenable about it: If you want big damage, you can make it happen, and it isn’t hard.

Kjeldoran.3849:

oh man man man… dont try to trick me, i know you want to be considered as the best one… in everything… but you aren’t ^^

so lets’ explain something… again and for last time i hope.
your build was 10/0/30/30/0 so it’s normal you had more power than mine … with my traits (0/5/30/30/5) you have 103 less power (-1)

you have exactly 148 more vitality (1480 hp) wich make you survivability surely better… but as i said before YOUR dps is meaningless with 600 less Effective Power that mean you can’t kill anyone in wvw unless it’s afk… very good.

Why do you insist on changing my build to your trait distribution in order to attack it? Is it because that’s the only way you can attack it? My build is not 0/5/30/30/5. It’s 10/0/30/30/0. As presented in the links I provided, my variation has equal or greater damage capability. If you change my trait distribution, of course it’s going to be different. It’s also not my build anymore.

Furthermore, the only difference in survivability between our trait distributions is that you have Inspired Virtue, which provides minor boon support from active virtues. This is not the be-all and end-all survivability trait, and compared to the higher armor and higher health of my variation it can’t be said that yours is more survivable.

Kjeldoran.3849:

Your survivability is still lower and i dont suggest you to look at Effective Health of the build calculator because it strongly depends from your ability and isn’t something you can calculate with precision… so your 3000 more effective hp can be 0 more hp if you do the wrong action (-2)

You “strongly suggest” that we don’t look at the parts of my build that are superior to yours? Okay.

Kjeldoran.3849:

Your precision, in the end, is still nothing because you used 2 foods to improve it and it’s still under 50% wich is ridicolous for a build based on crits and “Omnomberry Pie” so you effective damage is really low on both crits and not.

Your build uses food, too. Everyone sane uses food, food is amazingly good. If Omnomberry Pie bothers you so much, switch it for Curry Butternut Soup.

You keep bringing up effective damage, so I’m going to just go ahead and do you a favor and calculate your Whirling Wrath damage. I’m assuming this is your primary burst skill.

Damage for Whirling Wrath is calculated as: (((2.8 * 1047 * Power)/Armor) + Projectiles) * Modifiers
Damage with criticals is calculated as: (Base damage) * (1 + (Crit chance * crit damage))

I’m ignoring the projectile damage because there’s no guarantee they’ll all hit, whereas there’s reasonable guarantee you can get all 7 main whirl hits.

Your Whirling Wrath stats:
Total modifiers: 10% (Elusive Power)
Absolute damage, no criticals: 2756
Absolute damage, all critical hits: 7165
Average damage: 4975

My Whirling Wrath stats:
Total modifiers: 25% (Elusive Power, Fiery Wrath, Sigil of Force)
Absolute damage, no criticals: 3163
Absolute damage, all critical hits: 7338
Average damage: 4883

That’s assuming you’re still using Omnomberry Pie in my build. If I switch to the same food you use, Curry Butternut Soup, my new stats are:

Total modifiers: 25% (Elusive Power, Fiery Wrath, Sigil of Force)
Absolute damage, no criticals: 3163
Absolute damage, all critical hits: 7654
Average damage: 5077

So, in summary: My build, using Omnomberry Pies (which are cheaper to obtain than your food, incidentally) does more damage if you get lucky and land all of your crits. On average, it does about 90 less damage. If I were to switch to Curry Butternut Soup, it always does more damage than yours.

So, if you’re quite done berating me for absolutely no reason I’m perfectly happy to continue this discussion in light of the above.

foofad.5162:

stuff

uff… man you are boring… why do you want me to write pages and pages and pages only to explain you that your build isn’t what i’m looking for?!
my build is 0/5/30/30/5 and have no sense for you to post another build in order to compare equip and stats because traits greatly influences stats!

your build stacks 25 might?… really? in 1vs1 you can stack 25 might? … ok i don’t want to know how because i still know it’s not possible… and i’m really bored of your ego of superiority

you can stack vulnerability 25 times… with a warrior … yes… but only if you are 2 vs 1 and in a zerg vs zerg fight i really don’t think you have the time to say “cmon stack vuln on —-—” because if you still try to do it… will be really ridicolous.

i “strongly”(is a your word) suggest you to dont look at effective hp because it simply isn’t something of considerable… EHP don’t even increase your chance to kill someone nor to escape nor to save yourselvess

my build uses food but, as i said, is optimized in order to be playable also without food while you are food dependent because without your double precision food your crit chance is nothing (and also with food isnt enough)

i dont know where did you take those stats but are wrongs because you are considering a full 10% damage bonus from burning and an even increased power and damage from your 10 points in zeal (which isn’t my build… so you cant compare). Anyway your 10% increased damage will proc only 5 sec every 30 sec… which is pretty useless and i get 3 free might stacks wich mean 105 more power and so i can overpass you dps easily and get multiple boons which mean heals and damage at the same time (regeneration and protection). Your argomentation is kinda useless united with a superficial knowledge of game mechanics… you need to read between lines in order to get the real power of something… not the illustrated number (which is a lot of time also bugged).

Kjeldoran.3849:

foofad.5162:

stuff

uff… man you are boring… why do you want me to write pages and pages and pages only to explain you that your build isn’t what i’m looking for?!
my build is 0/5/30/30/5 and have no sense for you to post another build in order to compare equip and stats because traits greatly influences stats!

You were looking for a good Altruistic Healing build. That’s what mine is. As you recall, your earlier versions weren’t even 0/5/30/30/5, they were 0/0/30/30/10. You’re obviously willing to be flexible in trait distribution as long as you can still keep Pure of Voice and Altruistic Healing. If you would be flexible again, I think you’ll find that 10/0/30/30/0 is even better.

Kjeldoran.3849:

your build stacks 25 might?… really? in 1vs1 you can stack 25 might? … ok i don’t want to know how because i still know it’s not possible… and i’m really bored of your ego of superiority

As I said, I have builds that can stack 25 might solo, yes. Here’s one of them which I posted in my sticky thread not too long ago. Between Sigils of Battle, Empower, Empowering Might, and Greatsword autoattacking it’s quite easy to hit 25 stacks in the course of a battle.

Kjeldoran.3849:

you can stack vulnerability 25 times… with a warrior … yes… but only if you are 2 vs 1 and in a zerg vs zerg fight i really don’t think you have the time to say “cmon stack vuln on —-—” because if you still try to do it… will be really ridicolous.

Most Greatsword Warriors I know, I don’t have to ask to stack Vuln since they do it automatically with their autoattacks. Plus, most people who are specced for pure damage also dip into Radiance, which gives them Vuln on Blinds, and since Greatsword + Sword/Focus builds have four blinds, well… It’s not hard to get a bunch up.

Kjeldoran.3849:

i “strongly”(is a your word) suggest you to dont look at effective hp because it simply isn’t something of considerable… EHP don’t even increase your chance to kill someone nor to escape nor to save yourselvess

Really? You seem really keen on keeping your EHP up since you’re stuck on keeping 1500 Toughness. If you really don’t care about EHP, why don’t you run full Berserker?

Kjeldoran.3849:

my build uses food but, as i said, is optimized in order to be playable also without food while you are food dependent because without your double precision food your crit chance is nothing (and also with food isnt enough)

Okay, let’s compare our builds without any food.

Kjeldoran.3849:

i dont know where did you take those stats but are wrongs because you are considering a full 10% damage bonus from burning …

I can explain every part of how I came up with that damage in detail if you like. As for the full 10% damage bonus from Burning, yes, I did. You only care about burst damage, so that’s what I showed you; It’s trivial to use Virtue of Justice on someone before you Whirling Wrath them.

Kjeldoran.3849:

… and an even increased power and damage from your 10 points in zeal (which isn’t my build… so you cant compare).

Yeah, actually, you can compare them. You can compare any build. The fact that there are differences between builds is precisely the reason why we compare them, to find out which one is better for a given role. You apparently don’t want to compare mine to yours because you don’t like me for some reason, though I still can’t figure out why.

Kjeldoran.3849:

Anyway your 10% increased damage will proc only 5 sec every 30 sec… which is pretty useless and i get 3 free might stacks wich mean 105 more power and so i can overpass you dps easily and get multiple boons which mean heals and damage at the same time (regeneration and protection).

5 seconds is all you need if you can burst the guy down in that amount of time. This is what we care about in this thread: Altruistic Healing burst damage builds. If we include your 3 stacks of might, your Whirling Wrath damage becomes:

Base: 2886
All critical hits: 7504
Average: 5210

So yes, your average Whirling Wrath when you pop Justice is going to be about 133 points higher. Once every thirty seconds… just like me. Well, 28.5. But that’s splitting hairs. As for the rest of it: Yeah, you get slightly higher uptime on your boons. That said, we both have Save Yourselves, so our boon uptime is pretty high regardless. It’s not like I don’t have access to Protection and Regeneration and you do.

Kjeldoran.3849:

Your argomentation is kinda useless united with a superficial knowledge of game mechanics…

And yet I’m the only one in this thread who has even attempted to calculate actual damage instead of arguing with pretend numbers.

Kjeldoran.3849:

you need to read between lines in order to get the real power of something… not the illustrated number (which is a lot of time also bugged).

Lol.

Without food, your Whirling Wrath:

Non-food damage stats: 2084 Power, 45.67 crit chance, 100% crit damage

Base: 2585
Max crits: 6462
Average: 4536

My build, without any consumables, Whirling Wrath:

Non-food damage stats: 2244 Power, 30.87 crit, 82% crit damage

Base: 3163
Max crits: 7337
Average: 4942

Blasino.3128:

Do you mind showing the math as to how you got the 1500 toughness? Meaning can you show your baseline and comparisons, like whats the numbers look like with 1450 toughness and why isn’t it optimal or 1550 toughness?

And does this 1500 toughness apply to all classes or just guardian/warrior?

And what about your other parameters? Can you show the math?

Where did you get the average damage is 2000?

I appreciate the explanation but seeing the actual calculations with the formulas, tables, or graphing you used would help me since I’m a numbers person.

I’m curious if you have answers to my questions.

Blasino.3128:

Blasino.3128:

Do you mind showing the math as to how you got the 1500 toughness? Meaning can you show your baseline and comparisons, like whats the numbers look like with 1450 toughness and why isn’t it optimal or 1550 toughness?

And does this 1500 toughness apply to all classes or just guardian/warrior?

And what about your other parameters? Can you show the math?

Where did you get the average damage is 2000?

I appreciate the explanation but seeing the actual calculations with the formulas, tables, or graphing you used would help me since I’m a numbers person.

I’m curious if you have answers to my questions.

Man are you serious? There isn’t a mathematical formula to explain that… try it yourself and you will se i haven’t the time to retry every single build only in order to show you that 1500 toughness for some reason is the right quantity… but again… TRY it yourselves.

1) 1500 tougness isn’t a quantity “to apply” to a class but it’s simply the quantity of thougness which an equip can give you (with 0/5/30/30/5 traits) in order to don’t lose other stats for vitality… so basically it depends from equip and build and so every class with this build (0/5/30/30/5) get the best equilibration between toughness and vitality at 1500 (there also some other factors to consider…)

2) read above

3) personal experiences and anyway i showed you the % in Hp so don’t care about a number… because this is an assuredness

PS: do you want to see what? a graphic? tabulas? are you kidding right? man this is a game… direct experience is the best to learn something… you can’t use a graphic (o.O ??) to learn to play… so go in wvw and try yourselves and you will find that every math formula or graphic is useless because all depends from circumstances …

foofad.5162:

stuff

Ok man stop. I’m tired of repeating the same things… you will never learn nothing… continue in this way.
Your build is perfect! Are you happy now? Do you want to compare 2 different builds in order to discover which one is “better” but you forget that the aim of the topic was: new AH build, can someone give me some help? and it isn’t: new AH build, where is foodfad with his fantastic build, incredible and unbeatable?
Again, and for last time, your build is better only on a calculator because in facts i get 10 times your stats… but continue in your way, so you will be an easier bag of badges in wvw (yes… don’t worry i know that you in wvw are unbeatable! i was kidding).

your 10% damage bonus is kinda useless: removers, condition reducers, miss, invulnerable and stuns will show you who is the real “good player”… you will learn that yours 5 sec of burning are nothing the most of the time and so your 10% damage is less than useless

YOUR build who can stack 25 might ins’t THIS build (the one you posted) so you can’t say i have these stats AND 25 might stacks… cmon man.

Your boon uptime isn’t comparable to mine: i have 5 more sec of protection and 5 more sec of regeneration and a stupid 5% more boon… this isn’t a boon way build… but i still have a better boon duration that you.

You are calculatin “damage” in a wrong way… you can’t consider your calculations “corrects” nor “usefull” so it’s better to avoid that kind of no sense afirmation instead of write no sense words… because as i said before you damage and crit damage is still lower than mine… very lower!
remove a 10% bonus from your and ad 105 power to mine… you will find the difference even with food is greatly more high.

So in conclusion this forum offers very bad occasions for learning something but only for some unbearable people… I hope there is still someone who can reason with his head and look at your false adfirmations because you are only trying to impose your useless build without give any help to others. You are comparing a full zerker build (with every kind of boon) to others only in order to show that their damage is low… or you compare a boon way build with an AH build to show thakittens boon uptime is lower… you are a very hilarious man.
But now i’m off… enjoy your victory (because you aren’t prepared to a defeat) and please if there is a Moderator delete the entire thread because of the great quantity of no sense adfirmation inside (not from me of course).

Thank you to Brutaly and Akamon for help… someone tried to help… but others (like foodfad) have much to learn so this is crearly the wrong section for them.
Enjoy the forum with foodfad ignorance and ego… you will never learn something here but copy his useless builds and die in wvw because of them…
I out of forum because i don’t want to waste more time here. The forum is where players help players not where foodfad (and some other) pretend to be… (i don’t know the right word) … but do you have understand
see you in game and please don’t answer more to this thread: it has no sense.

Kjeldoran.3849:

Blasino.3128:

Blasino.3128:

Do you mind showing the math as to how you got the 1500 toughness? Meaning can you show your baseline and comparisons, like whats the numbers look like with 1450 toughness and why isn’t it optimal or 1550 toughness?

And does this 1500 toughness apply to all classes or just guardian/warrior?

And what about your other parameters? Can you show the math?

Where did you get the average damage is 2000?

I appreciate the explanation but seeing the actual calculations with the formulas, tables, or graphing you used would help me since I’m a numbers person.

I’m curious if you have answers to my questions.

Man are you serious? There isn’t a mathematical formula to explain that… try it yourself and you will se i haven’t the time to retry every single build only in order to show you that 1500 toughness for some reason is the right quantity… but again… TRY it yourselves.

1) 1500 tougness isn’t a quantity “to apply” to a class but it’s simply the quantity of thougness which an equip can give you (with 0/5/30/30/5 traits) in order to don’t lose other stats for vitality… so basically it depends from equip and build and so every class with this build (0/5/30/30/5) get the best equilibration between toughness and vitality at 1500 (there also some other factors to consider…)

2) read above

3) personal experiences and anyway i showed you the % in Hp so don’t care about a number… because this is an assuredness

PS: do you want to see what? a graphic? tabulas? are you kidding right? man this is a game… direct experience is the best to learn something… you can’t use a graphic (o.O ??) to learn to play… so go in wvw and try yourselves and you will find that every math formula or graphic is useless because all depends from circumstances …

Ummm you told me you calculated this to the millimeter. For someone who makes this claim, I do expect things like formulas, statistics, and such.

So basically this is all based on the eye test? Which is fine if that is what you want to roll with, but don’t claim about your precise calculations when you didn’t make any.

Kjeldoran.3849:

foofad.5162:

stuff

Ok man stop. I’m tired of repeating the same things… you will never learn nothing… continue in this way.
Your build is perfect! Are you happy now? Do you want to compare 2 different builds in order to discover which one is “better” but you forget that the aim of the topic was: new AH build, can someone give me some help? and it isn’t: new AH build, where is foodfad with his fantastic build, incredible and unbeatable?

The build I posted is Altruistic Healing, which is precisely what you wanted. I’m also open to real criticism that has merit. For example, when you brought up that you could get 105 additional power from firing up Virtue of Justice before your burst: That was something that I had forgotten to account for, which I then had to include in order to get a more realistic comparison between the two.

Kjeldoran.3849:

Again, and for last time, your build is better only on a calculator because in facts i get 10 times your stats… but continue in your way, so you will be an easier bag of badges in wvw (yes… don’t worry i know that you in wvw are unbeatable! i was kidding).

I’m not going to address sarcasm.

Kjeldoran.3849:

your 10% damage bonus is kinda useless: removers, condition reducers, miss, invulnerable and stuns will show you who is the real “good player”… you will learn that yours 5 sec of burning are nothing the most of the time and so your 10% damage is less than useless

This is a valid concern, however in my playtime I’ve noticed that most players don’t cleanse burns from guardians, and sometimes don’t even cleanse vulnerability. One of the nice things about sword/focus is the number of blinds it can add, which often get cleansed instead of the burning when you’re setting up your burst. But considering how quickly you can burst (Shield of Wrath takes no time to cast and Whirling Wrath takes 2.5 seconds) you can generally just wait until the very last moment to hit Justice and then apply the burning. You can also wait, in longer fights, until you suspect they’ve run out of condition cleanses. There are ways to get around condition clearing, you just have to pay attention.

Kjeldoran.3849:

YOUR build who can stack 25 might ins’t THIS build (the one you posted) so you can’t say i have these stats AND 25 might stacks… cmon man.

I never said that this build could achieve 25 stacks of might. I said that one can achieve 25 stacks of might because earlier you had mentioned that it was impossible – I just wanted to show you that it wasn’t just possible, but trivial. Just not with this build.

Kjeldoran.3849:

Your boon uptime isn’t comparable to mine: i have 5 more sec of protection and 5 more sec of regeneration and a stupid 5% more boon… this isn’t a boon way build… but i still have a better boon duration that you.

We both have Stand Your Ground Save Yourselves, which gives 20.8% uptime when traited for cooldown. That’s the baseline. On top of this, you have an additional 5 second source of Might, Regeneration, and Protection. However, those are on a 30, 60, and 90 (28.5, 57, 85.5 when traited) second cooldown each. So yes: You do have higher uptime. This is true. But for Regeneration, even if you spam Resolution and Courage, it’s only ~9% more Regeneration and ~6% more Protection; and again, that’s only if you spam those abilities. I don’t know about you, but I don’t spam them since I try to wait until the right moment to block big attacks with a timed Aegis, and so on.

Kjeldoran.3849:

You are calculatin “damage” in a wrong way… you can’t consider your calculations “corrects” nor “usefull” so it’s better to avoid that kind of no sense afirmation instead of write no sense words… because as i said before you damage and crit damage is still lower than mine… very lower!

You can say it as many times as you want, but that doesn’t make it true. You’ve said the damage is wrong, but you don’t offer any reasoning as to why or how. If you can identify a specific error with the calculation, I’m very open to hearing it.

Kjeldoran.3849:

remove a 10% bonus from your and ad 105 power to mine… you will find the difference even with food is greatly more high.

I already added your 105 power to the last round of calculations I posted. Of course yours will be higher if I remove the 10% bonus. It also won’t be my build anymore.

Edit: Typo

Kjeldoran.3849:

So in conclusion this forum offers very bad occasions for learning something but only for some unbearable people… I hope there is still someone who can reason with his head and look at your false adfirmations because you are only trying to impose your useless build without give any help to others. You are comparing a full zerker build (with every kind of boon) to others only in order to show that their damage is low… or you compare a boon way build with an AH build to show thakittens boon uptime is lower… you are a very hilarious man.

I really don’t know what you’re talking about, but in any event, there are plenty of reasonable people on the forums, including myself I think. The issue is that whereas I attempt to quantify the differences between our otherwise similar builds, you refuse to acknowledge any facts regardless of how they are presented if they don’t conform with your view.

Kjeldoran.3849:

But now i’m off… enjoy your victory

Is there cake? I was told there would be cake.

last minor update and end of the build:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|1.1g.h1|c.1g.h1.d.1g.h4|1g.a7.1g.a7.1c.a7.1g.a1.1g.9c.1g.a7|2s.d1e.2s.0.3s.0.3s.0.2s.d1e.2s.d1e|0.5.u54b.u28b.5|39.1|w.17.18.19.1i|e

enjoy.

Kjeldoran, the issue is that builds in games like these usually come down to numbers, as combat is literally simply mathematics. Now i realize that theorycrafting can’t always take into account everything, but in the case of foofad’s builds it would be nice if you could quantify and explain why you hate it so.

foofad seems to have been very helpful throughout the thread, and comparing the builds, i too don’t understand what your issue is, nor why you seem incapable of explaining why 1500 toughness is the break-even point, or why you think effective hp and effective power are completely meaningless, and what metric you use instead to quantify damage and survivability.

For someone claiming your build is best and/or better than others, it’s kind of on you to explain and show why, in greater detail than ‘try it, you’ll see, once you read between imaginary lines only i can see’. Also, resorting to simply insulting others who are attempting to be helpful or critical isn’t doing anything to help your case.

Yeah, have to say, nice stats, but honestly, cool off with the “this is the best AH build ever” attitude.

1500 toughness as a limit has no basis what so ever. Not sure if you are aware, but our self healing scales directly with our toughness, as we can heal up better from smaller hits than larger ones. Not to discredit our need for vitality, but running any build with somewhat solid condition removal and a good amount of self healing will allow toughness to easily outshine vitality.

Second, You didn’t even know about sigil cool downs and you are lecturing people on min/maxing regarding stats? You do realize that foo’s build actually has around the same, possibly a bit more due to citadel runes and the fury up time they give? 5% chance may not seem like a lot, but in a zerg it is pretty easy to activate, and its not something that you have to sit there and keep activating, considering its a 1min cd with a 36 sec duration.

After actually punching in buffs and manual things such as full bloodlust stacks, and fixing certain traits (stupid strength in numbers) His build actually has a 5000 effective health difference, which by the way, is just what your health is, and then factoring in how much reduced damage you take due to your armor, so there really is no reason to shrug it off, as it has nothing to do with healing and dodging. And without the fiery wrath trait is only 300 effective power behind. with the trait he is 200 effective power ahead. Meaning that yes, you have more sustained damage, but he has more burst potential. and ALOT more survivablity