Guild Wars 2

“Guardians are in a good spot”
- Mike O’brien 2014

Dude, I think we have been hearing that since the start of the game, which back then was true at least, now…. just… yeah.

Bash.7291:

Dude, I think we have been hearing that since the start of the game, which back then was true at least, now…. just… yeah.

Nonesense ! 4 second chill every 30 seconds was a great buff. We couldn’t solo anything before that buff, and we can’t solo anything after it. It was great

I agree with Mike O’Brien.

It is not like there is another Melee class, that have Heavy armor. With the option to have either more damage, more survivability, more group healing, more self healing, unique buffs, more self condi cleansing, more mobility. And all though that “Class” can’t have all the things mentioned, they do sacrifice less than we do to get it.

So yes, Guardians are in a “good” spot.

funny how many people lol at that comment ingame and one line lost so much respect and trust in a dev team

Guardians are “in a good spot” = Not allowed to have fun.

#ArenaNetLogic

I want a profession reset scroll sometimes….

Xae Isareth.1364:

I want a profession reset scroll sometimes….

That would be nice. I partially believe that since a good number of players are Guardians. They are trying to entice other players into other classes by keeping Guardians under-powered. Once Warriors enter a plateau phase where the number of players rolling Warriors becomes constant to the other classes; they will nerf it and overpower(/balance) a new class to lure more players into that. Thats just my speculation though since I can’t make any sense of their balancing patches.

evilmaniac.1467:

Xae Isareth.1364:

I want a profession reset scroll sometimes….

That would be nice. I partially believe that since a good number of players are Guardians. They are trying to entice other players into other classes by keeping Guardians under-powered. Once Warriors enter a plateau phase where the number of players rolling Warriors becomes constant to the other classes; they will nerf it and overpower(/balance) a new class to lure more players into that. Thats just my speculation though since I can’t make any sense of their balancing patches.

…. Have you not seen the number of warriors in wvw/spvp alone?

I thought that this was a variety update to include more builds so we don’t get bored, not a balance update? So then why use the phrase “Guardians are in a good spot” as an excuse not to update the class? We want more variety in builds too…

evilmaniac.1467:

Xae Isareth.1364:

I want a profession reset scroll sometimes….

That would be nice. I partially believe that since a good number of players are Guardians. They are trying to entice other players into other classes by keeping Guardians under-powered. Once Warriors enter a plateau phase where the number of players rolling Warriors becomes constant to the other classes; they will nerf it and overpower(/balance) a new class to lure more players into that. Thats just my speculation though since I can’t make any sense of their balancing patches.

That’s a very bad way to design a game. And….

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/loadNews/28455/Infographic-Tells-Story-of-Year-One

Warrior is actually the most popular class in the game as at first anniversary.

Doomdesire.9365:

We want more variety in builds too…

Now you can play a burning guardian :^)

Doomdesire.9365:

I thought that this was a variety update to include more builds so we don’t get bored, not a balance update? So then why use the phrase “Guardians are in a good spot” as an excuse not to update the class? We want more variety in builds too…

Whats the point of having a 33% increase in burning damage though ? You would have to compromise your tank in order to utilize the condition damage build; therefore you would be far more efficient just re-rolling a Necromancer which will deal more consistent damage, and tank far better while doing it (although you are weak to hambow warriors as you lack stability).

On the other hand; if you wanted the 3000 health increase you will lose out on virtue of justice spam, which with altruistic healing provides far more healing and tank than the 3000 health ever will. The only merit the 3000 health increase has is that it will be harder for Theives to 1 shot you. It provides no real resistance against condition classes such as Engineers & Necros as they can reapply conditions faster than you can remove them.

There is nothing at this time Guardians do well that other classes can’t do better with the exception of applying boons. Even then, our boons can be stripped off while Warrior banner buffs can’t.

evilmaniac.1467:

Doomdesire.9365:

I thought that this was a variety update to include more builds so we don’t get bored, not a balance update? So then why use the phrase “Guardians are in a good spot” as an excuse not to update the class? We want more variety in builds too…

Whats the point of having a 33% increase in burning damage though ? You would have to compromise your tank in order to utilize the condition damage build; therefore you would be far more efficient just re-rolling a Necromancer which will deal more consistent damage, and tank far better while doing it (although you are weak to hambow warriors as you lack stability).

On the other hand; if you wanted the 3000 health increase you will lose out on virtue of justice spam, which with altruistic healing provides far more healing and tank than the 3000 health ever will. The only merit the 3000 health increase has is that it will be harder for Theives to 1 shot you. It provides no real resistance against condition classes such as Engineers & Necros as they can reapply conditions faster than you can remove them.

There is nothing at this time Guardians do well that other classes can’t do better with the exception of applying boons. Even then, our boons can be stripped off while Warrior banner buffs can’t.

The problem for me is that even with 33% extra burn damage, a condi-Guardian just won’t match a direct damage Guardian in DPS. That basically kills it because its not like going condi-mesmer, where there’s other benefits of going condi other than just damage.

Darmikau.9413:

Doomdesire.9365:

We want more variety in builds too…

Now you can play a burning guardian :^)

And feel like I’m gimping myself?

Xae Isareth.1364:

Darmikau.9413:

Doomdesire.9365:

We want more variety in builds too…

Now you can play a burning guardian :^)

And feel like I’m gimping myself?

That’s the joke. Even if they could make burning guardian a good/viable build, I don’t think anyone wants to play it.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Darmikau.9413:

Doomdesire.9365:

We want more variety in builds too…

Now you can play a burning guardian :^)

And feel like I’m gimping myself?

Can’t kitten Guradians, they already are :p

They should remove Virtue of Courage since it’s really bad and replace it with a passive block when using a shield. Something like a 10~20% chance to block an attack if you have a shield. That would make our terrible HP and mobility worth it, and even make the shield viable.

Perikittenor.1892:

I agree with Mike O’Brien.

It is not like there is another Melee class, that have Heavy armor. With the option to have either more damage, more survivability, more group healing, more self healing, unique buffs, more self condi cleansing, more mobility. And all though that “Class” can’t have all the things mentioned, they do sacrifice less than we do to get it.

So yes, Guardians are in a “good” spot.

Uh, you do realize Warriors being the only heavy armor class has all of those things that you listed right?

My heavens. . . is this real life?

Judge Banks.9018:

Perikittenor.1892:

I agree with Mike O’Brien.

It is not like there is another Melee class, that have Heavy armor. With the option to have either more damage, more survivability, more group healing, more self healing, unique buffs, more self condi cleansing, more mobility. And all though that “Class” can’t have all the things mentioned, they do sacrifice less than we do to get it.

So yes, Guardians are in a “good” spot.

Uh, you do realize Warriors being the only heavy armor class has all of those things that you listed right?

My heavens. . . is this real life?

Silly egg :p
Hes being sarcastic

Doomdesire.9365:

I thought that this was a variety update to include more builds so we don’t get bored, not a balance update? So then why use the phrase “Guardians are in a good spot” as an excuse not to update the class? We want more variety in builds too…

That’s what I think … being in a good spot doesn’t mean the class should stagnate in mediocrity while updates continue to finesse the other classes to ‘good places’ too.

To give the devs a bit of credit, I don’t think all the traits are as bad as people make out but they will certainly be difficult to use in the current mindset of Guardian players.

The only thing i can think about when hearing the “Guardians are in a good spot”

http://9gag.com/gag/a9dDwXL

Clearly we are moving into a better spot next patch.

Perikittenor.1892:

The only thing i can think about when hearing the “Guardians are in a good spot”

http://9gag.com/gag/a9dDwXL

Clearly we are moving into a better spot next patch.

Lol ;D
Looks about right

On December 10th, 2013 we’ll introduce a new power guardian, solicit feedback, and make some changes. This is what I’m thinking of right now although ‘I’ don’t think this is what we want to do in the long run…

Oh wait. This is March 2014!!!! Never responded. Did what you said wasn’t right, didn’t take any of the feedback, and delivered kitten instead of cards. /boggle.

Read the forums and look at the various posts. On one had you have PvE is fine. Others say play what you want, have fun. Others say you are not doing your part by playing a sub par build regardless if it is fun or not. Others say the class is great, others middle of the road, others it is dead Jim. Personally I’m in the “its dead Jim” camp because Frankly, it is.

PvP is broke. WvW has population and coverage issues. Season one we knew who would come in what place before the matches even started. PvE is easy and any hard core raider will get their fix elsewhere. Now add it gated content or gear and we are almost into the other MMO’s space. Casual or power it doesn’t matter if the meta you play isn’t fun.

About the only good thing going for GW2 is that at least you wont have to regear or pay a monthly fee to take a break. Lord knows if you look at many of the servers it is already happening. Free transfers are not helping any either but making it worse.

Good run, play until it is no longer fun. Guardian is stagnant though.

Obtena.7952:

That’s what I think … being in a good spot +doesn’t mean the class should stagnate in mediocrity while updates continue to finesse+ the other classes to ‘good places’ too.

WHA?! There it is!

Anet’s #1 Supporter saying it how it really is!

Never thought I’d see the day… I almost started to believe you had submitted an Application for Employment and were trying ot boost your “Team Anet” Rank…

Now they ~have~ to fix the guardian.

evilmaniac.1467:

Perikittenor.1892:

The only thing i can think about when hearing the “Guardians are in a good spot”

http://9gag.com/gag/a9dDwXL

Clearly we are moving into a better spot next patch.

Lol ;D
Looks about right

HA. Nice find.

Guardians = Warriors with less stats in every way + fancy burning effects and blue swings.

Drannon.8254:

Guardians = Warriors with less stats in every way + fancy burning effects and blue swings.

THATS IT! We give up the ability to have a condition build because our condition
looks cooler! We have the answer!

Edit: switched conditions to condition, silly me.

Amins.3710:

Obtena.7952:

That’s what I think … being in a good spot +doesn’t mean the class should stagnate in mediocrity while updates continue to finesse+ the other classes to ‘good places’ too.

WHA?! There it is!

Anet’s #1 Supporter saying it how it really is!

Never thought I’d see the day… I almost started to believe you had submitted an Application for Employment and were trying ot boost your “Team Anet” Rank…

Now they ~have~ to fix the guardian.

I support things Anet does when I agree with them. I’m not just a fanboi like you would like to think. I think they do a good job maintaining the concept of the profession. I don’t think they do a good job evolving it to incorporate the deficient aspects of it. We don’t need an upgrade to turn us into warriors; we are in a good place. We need some side-grades to incorporate and make the other conceptual features of the class effective; we are in a stagnant place.

Obtena.7952:

Amins.3710:

Obtena.7952:

That’s what I think … being in a good spot +doesn’t mean the class should stagnate in mediocrity while updates continue to finesse+ the other classes to ‘good places’ too.

WHA?! There it is!

Anet’s #1 Supporter saying it how it really is!

Never thought I’d see the day… I almost started to believe you had submitted an Application for Employment and were trying ot boost your “Team Anet” Rank…

Now they ~have~ to fix the guardian.

I support things Anet does when I agree with them. I’m not just a fanboi like you would like to think. I think they do a good job maintaining the concept of the profession. I don’t think they do a good job evolving it to incorporate the deficient aspects of it. We don’t need an upgrade to turn us into warriors; we are in a good place. We need some side-grades to incorporate and make the other conceptual features of the class effective; we are in a stagnant place.

Two heavy armor class types = fail.
No primary heal/tank/support = fail.
Class ability cross pollination = muddy waters (i.e. might, heal, and other fields).

At this point it seems the Warrior and Guardian should be the same with the only separation being how you trait. I know that may seem odd and people will kitten a brick but honestly why bring a guardian at this point when everyone can do what we do and in some cases better. Frontline should have CC abilities or force the fight forward.

This whole stack, buff, train is boring.

Read this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-June-25th-2013/first#post2339673

While listening to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY

Guardians are in a good spot.

The best? Nope. The worst? lol pls go. Top 3? Yes.

Warrior is just a bit over the top imo and that makes some of you feel inferior. I am sorry about that.

Why are you sorry? Are you one of the b-teamers they have been assigning to development?

Darmikau.9413:

Doomdesire.9365:

We want more variety in builds too…

Now you can play a burning guardian :^)

A ‘burning guardian’ is an oxymoron…

Dynnen.6405:

Read this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-June-25th-2013/first#post2339673

While listening to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY

I prefer reading this https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post999247 And just seeing how far off they went with those ideals within a year.

Boring as it may be, guardian in the top PVE dog right not, tied with the warrior depending on party comp. Guardians + warriors wreck anything PVE content, so don’t get ur panties wet just yet.

Its boring that we have been using the same build for the last year, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon, but we are NOT weak.

If you think guardian is kitten , you are either trying to solo roam WvW or need to get a clue about the game.

why do you think our skills show an old man with white beard?
cause guardians are old men .

Bash.7291:

I prefer reading this https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post999247 And just seeing how far off they went with those ideals within a year.

To be fair, the Guardian is where they envisioned it. Powered by boons in melee. Ok, maybe they should add “and if you roll full pve zerk you like dem blinds too amirite” but let’s not get too picky.

Warrior is hysterically off. Engineer is weirdly off, in that the kits are supposed to be subpar DPS? Grenades and bombs say hello. I had no idea they thought that way about Engi. It looked fine with the boons and the medium range, but then he just kitten ed out there at the end. Mesmers struggling with conditions? Since when?

Hunter.4783:

Boring as it may be, guardian in the top PVE dog right not, tied with the warrior depending on party comp. Guardians + warriors wreck anything PVE content, so don’t get ur panties wet just yet.

PvE is a joke. We’ve already addressed that.

If you think guardian is kitten , you are either trying to solo roam WvW or need to get a clue about the game.

Play the way you want, right? This isn’t about a guardian being Dora the explorer and finding clues. It is about a class that doesn’t get the proper developer attention (see December 10th 2013 thread for example) while other classes have. Thus the Guardian in the state it is.

Remember there are three triads of play. PvE, WvW, and s/tPvP. Ironically WvW + s/tPvP = 2 which is greater than PvE / 1. Yet we can’t seem to find any sort of balance in the game. And we have already seen retaliation get adjusted since launch or changed the way it works across the triad i don’t think this new grandmaster trait will do much…

I thought this thread was serious until I read all the the comments from newbies, that don’t know how good guardians are. what a joke. Just be thankful gurdians arn’t the subject of a witchhunt and all of their OPness goes unnoticed.

Crapgame.6519:

Hunter.4783:

Boring as it may be, guardian in the top PVE dog right not, tied with the warrior depending on party comp. Guardians + warriors wreck anything PVE content, so don’t get ur panties wet just yet.

PvE is a joke. We’ve already addressed that.

If you think guardian is kitten , you are either trying to solo roam WvW or need to get a clue about the game.

Play the way you want, right? This isn’t about a guardian being Dora the explorer and finding clues. It is about a class that doesn’t get the proper developer attention (see December 10th 2013 thread for example) while other classes have. Thus the Guardian in the state it is.

Remember there are three triads of play. PvE, WvW, and s/tPvP. Ironically WvW + s/tPvP = 2 which is greater than PvE / 1. Yet we can’t seem to find any sort of balance in the game. And we have already seen retaliation get adjusted since launch or changed the way it works across the triad i don’t think this new grandmaster trait will do much…

A net balances this game around the ability to solo the personal storyline. Anything else is a bonus. Which explains the sad state some classes are.

PVE may be insignificant to you but its matters quite a bit, and its the largest component of this game.
WvW is seen as group play, where guardians comprise the core of every zerg. If your gonna solo in wvw, you are taking a chance, and the game mode itself is not balanced around that aspect.
PvP I will agree with you, guardians are sad and boring.

This is all a moot point in 4 days…so…

Hunter.4783:

Crapgame.6519:

Hunter.4783:

Boring as it may be, guardian in the top PVE dog right not, tied with the warrior depending on party comp. Guardians + warriors wreck anything PVE content, so don’t get ur panties wet just yet.

PvE is a joke. We’ve already addressed that.

If you think guardian is kitten , you are either trying to solo roam WvW or need to get a clue about the game.

Play the way you want, right? This isn’t about a guardian being Dora the explorer and finding clues. It is about a class that doesn’t get the proper developer attention (see December 10th 2013 thread for example) while other classes have. Thus the Guardian in the state it is.

Remember there are three triads of play. PvE, WvW, and s/tPvP. Ironically WvW + s/tPvP = 2 which is greater than PvE / 1. Yet we can’t seem to find any sort of balance in the game. And we have already seen retaliation get adjusted since launch or changed the way it works across the triad i don’t think this new grandmaster trait will do much…

A net balances this game around the ability to solo the personal storyline. Anything else is a bonus. Which explains the sad state some classes are.

PVE may be insignificant to you but its matters quite a bit, and its the largest component of this game.

Maybe, I really don’t know and I didn’t mean to belittle it I guess. What I meant though is compared to other games this content isn’t that difficult if you know how to dodge. In my opinion though when say I compare it to WoW / original Nax release 4 horsemen or say any of the master levels in DaOC or even the Dragon or beast at the bottom of Darkness Falls (although either of those you could zerg down).

WvW is seen as group play, where guardians comprise the core of every zerg. If your gonna solo in wvw, you are taking a chance, and the game mode itself is not balanced around that aspect.

Zerg play is one form. Probably the easiest for many because it gets the job done faster. However, there are others who actually try and be a bit more tactical or like the challenge of hide and seek via solo. So no, I don’t expect any class to be able to withstand odds greater than say 3 to 1 but still look at the Guardian. It isn’t easy that is for sure.

I will note though that some players on this forum are better than others and can run full zerk build with safety but I think it even pushes them. Sadly it seems several of said players are looking for new and exciting things.

Lastly I’ll say the game is evolving and in some cases isn’t what I signed up for but that is just me. I mean simple things like a change to the EBG JP’ and removal of siege seemed to dumb the game down. Concept great. Execution poor. Darkness Falls it was not but maybe I’m jaded.

PvP I will agree with you, guardians are sad and boring.

See, we agree on some things Good luck with the dye!

I hate to say I agree, but I agree. Guardian is in a good spot…they need to nerf warriors. Guardian is useful in every aspect of the game…whether it is fractals, or dungeons, or WvW….its just that Warriors are too OP right now that it makes guardians seem bad. They are in no way as bad as Rangers or Ele’s right now though….those two classes and even Mesmer needs far more help than guardian.

Moshari.8570:

I hate to say I agree, but I agree. Guardian is in a good spot…they need to nerf warriors. Guardian is useful in every aspect of the game…whether it is fractals, or dungeons, or WvW….its just that Warriors are too OP right now that it makes guardians seem bad. They are in no way as bad as Rangers or Ele’s right now though….those two classes and even Mesmer needs far more help than guardian.

Please pass me some of that Kool-Aid.

I guess if seeing 90% of guardians reroll warriors or get bored and quit is being in a good spot then yeah we are doing awesome.

Guardian is an average class at best and does not look to be improving much next patch. Simple truths are Guardian is a low health, low mobility class whose class abilities are on some of the most frustratingly long CD given their rather average impact on events in game. Until some of these aspects change, I don’t see guardian being any more fun to play.

Guardians are one of the easiest professions in the game to play. Even easier to play than warriors. What else do you want?

Warlord.9074:

Guardians are one of the easiest professions in the game to play. Even easier to play than warriors. What else do you want?

Obvious troll is obvious.

“Guardian is in a good spot” yet we think its dodge capability with the amount of mobility and HP they have is OP so Vigor is getting nurfed……..

Moshari.8570:

I hate to say I agree, but I agree. Guardian is in a good spot…they need to nerf warriors. Guardian is useful in every aspect of the game…whether it is fractals, or dungeons, or WvW….its just that Warriors are too OP right now that it makes guardians seem bad. They are in no way as bad as Rangers or Ele’s right now though….those two classes and even Mesmer needs far more help than guardian.

…… Spirit weapons…. drops the mic

Abe Kleine.3568:

Moshari.8570:

I hate to say I agree, but I agree. Guardian is in a good spot…they need to nerf warriors. Guardian is useful in every aspect of the game…whether it is fractals, or dungeons, or WvW….its just that Warriors are too OP right now that it makes guardians seem bad. They are in no way as bad as Rangers or Ele’s right now though….those two classes and even Mesmer needs far more help than guardian.

…… Spirit weapons…. drops the mic

stop whining about bad utilities. every class has some of those.

compared to warriors they seem lacking, but guardians ARE pretty good in every mode of the game (rather on the OP side of balance, imo). other classes definitely need more attention.