Guild Wars 2

If you use something like x/x/30/x/20 so that you can hit AH and virtues traits, then you’re giving up damage modifiers somewhere (fiery wrath @ 10 zeal, powerful blades @ 20 radiance and the 10% on foes with conditions @ radiance 25) which makes the DPS no longer comparable between the AH and meta builds (so as opposed to 10/30/30/0/0 where the DPS is actually on par).

The meta build absolutely does not need knights gear as demonstrated by obal’s countless videos, my Lupicus duo with Nikaido where he told me afterwards he was using 20/25/0/0/25 (imagine that, not even vigor on Lupicus). You can run the meta in full berserker in Arah perfectly fine, and for fractals you can run the 15/25/0/20/10 or 15/15/0/20/20 builds which revolve around using the hammer symbol to sustain yourself and the team (plus blinds and chaining aegis) which do not use AH.

I have a guardian myself and pug with those builds and use full berserker too and it works just fine. Pretty much the only time you want knights is when doing something like Fractal 49 where you’re expected to hold boss aggro and need to be able to soak a hit while the rest of your team wails on the boss from behind, and even then … you don’t need AH.

I’m not sure why you’ve claimed “most dps build splash in knights or other gear” when that is quite possibly the most incorrect claim you could make.

hendo.1940:

The meta build absolutely does not need knights gear as demonstrated by obal’s countless videos, my Lupicus duo with Nikaido where he told me afterwards he was using 20/25/0/0/25 (imagine that, not even vigor on Lupicus)..

The problem with this statement is his build itself includes knights gear. So he must have a reason to need toughness otherwise it would not make any sense to include knights gear if he didn’t need it as according to you.

Also, the x/x/30/x/20 example you provided may have less dps than the dps build in the link with the SAME GEAR however note that the dps build in the link had knights gear in some slots in order to be not overly squishy while you can afford to go full zerk with x/x/30/x/20 and have more mitigation and sustain. Not to mention the 30% crit damage also goes toward narrowing gaps in dps.

So in the end of the day it’s a trade off of some dps for mitigation and sustain between the 2 builds, which is far from an absolute difference in viability some in this forum are trying to portray it.

Note I’m not exactly trying to endorse any particular AH variants. I simply used the build you provided as an example as part of my argument that AH is by far very viable and not necessarily inferior despite the mindless hate that it gets.

First off there is no bad/wrong build just bad players. Some builds work for some people because of their play style. I’ve seen builds where one person was great with it and another person was constantly downed. Most commonly used builds are typically good for the most part. Judging builds based just on DPS is about as valuable as basing builds on any other one attribute.

I strictly play Different versions of the AH build. My most commonly used build is the AHEM build. I will use any armor that has high precision on it ex: zerker/knights and I only run boon duration runes 2 traveler, 2 water, and 2 monk. I use Chocolate Omnomberry Cream for my food. All that along with traits brings me up to around 85% boon duration.

Since I am running Empowering Might trait every time I crit I’m helping with the dps because everyone is gaining might all the time and the might I apply last longer and is increasing the teams DPS as a whole. Not to mention if you use a sigil of Strength on your weapon you have a 30% chance to get two stacks of might for yourself in one swing.

Boons Boons Boons what does this mean practically every time you swing you are criting applying a boon to your party and healing yourself at the same time. Since your boons last longer they are more effective and nobody complains with swiftness that can go over 1 min 10 secs.

I have never had anyone complain about having me in a party while I was running my build it has actually been the opposite.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.4|1.5g.h1b.e14.0.0|6.5g.h1b.e14.0.0|5g.71m.5g.71m.5g.71g.5g.71g.5g.71h.5g.71h.e16.e16.e16.e16.e16.e16|2s.e14.2s.e14.3s.e16.2s.e14.3s.e16.2s.e14|0.0.u56b.k28.k29|1.7|v.19.17.16.0|e

With the 25 stacks of might that I can generally keep up, jumps me from 3757.66 effective power to 5391.03 being a jump up of around 1633.57 effective power. Remember this is going towards the party as a whole so everyone is keeping their DPS at max most of the time.

Its nice that you are getting awesome might stacks and everything, but the meta build without any food, might stacks, sigil stacks or anything other than traits and gear (and lets nerf it down to exotics to show how low your ascended numbers are) has about double the effective power of your build without boons… Its still more even when you fully buff up. In an organized group where the party or ele stacks 25 might + fury and adding in proper foods it ends up about double your ascended boonguard. Yeah, gives up healing and all that stuff that you never need because you don’t facetank like a newbie…

Now if you talking wvw, nvm different skill set entirely.

notabot.3497:

I Yeah, gives up healing and all that stuff that you never need because you don’t facetank like a newbie…

That is a matter of opinion there and just because someone uses a particular build does not warrant them a title of newbie, novice , amateur, and or pro. Its nice how you reminded me how DPS builds are the only thing that matter in this game.

Its like you didn’t even read my first paragraph. I was simply showing it has more DPS than your common AH build. I also forgot how every pug group in this game includes a ele that knows what they are doing. (sarcasm). We are talking about what guards can provide for their party not what eles can do for guards.

Sure there are optimal groups for every situation I’m simply showing guards have a lot more to bring to the table. We are GUARDians not DPSians. Leave the dps to the classes that are focused on that aspect like warriors.

Excursion.9752:

Sure there are optimal groups for every situation I’m simply showing guards have a lot more to bring to the table. We are GUARDians not DPSians. Leave the dps to the classes that are focused on that aspect like warriors.

Quite the display of ignorance. The meta build is designed to bring the absolute best support needed for dungeon/fractal situations. AH is designed to give only your character healing. So what is AH GUARDing exactly? The meta build contains far more party support.

Okay I’m just here to say that an arguement between this 2 “factions” is useless. Both are to arrogant to listen to the other clearly. And I could bring some speach to the table to tell how everyone is worng trying to force ppl playing some specs but not would listen.
For many time I’ve run AH and not even once I got complains of my build. I try the meta dye x times, and guess who’s without a party. Most ppl don’t even care what i’m running as long as the party don’t get wiped and we end up clearing the boss. And as long as any build allows me to do that, that build is viable no matter what you say. It is optimal? Might as well not be, but it is for me and thats what kittening matters

laharl.8435:

The meta build contains far more party support.

go on? Its funny how people say meta build the one that changes week to week. Also the only reason an AH guard can provide heals to themselves is if they hit others with boons. So that’s hardly selfish. AH does nothing for you when you hit no one with a boon.

Previously in this thread I explained what a AHEM Boon Guard does for the party and even displayed the build I run mostly. I don’t really need to hash that out again.

Excursion.9752:

laharl.8435:

The meta build contains far more party support.

go on? Its funny how people say meta build the one that changes week to week. Also the only reason an AH guard can provide heals to themselves is if they hit others with boons. So that’s hardly selfish. AH does nothing for you when you hit no one with a boon.

Previously in this thread I explained what a AHEM Boon Guard does for the party and even displayed the build I run mostly. I don’t really need to hash that out again.

You dont need to run AH to give boons to teammates….

spoj.9672:

You dont need to run AH to give boons to teammates….

I never said it was the only way. But I’m glad you pointed that out…

If people would read threads in their entirety in this instance everyone would understand that I’m not discrediting any other build. I am simply trying to defend and show that all AH builds are not as bad as people make it out to be.

Its all about the player who is using the build not the build itself that makes something good. I was teamed last night doing HotW with a fellow guardian I asked him what build he was using and he said Meta. The guy died two times and was rallied 4. Not because his team was bad or the build was bad. He was simply inexperienced. I’m sure in time that will clear up. I’ve been teamed with other people using the meta and they did just fine.

What point am I trying to make you ask? Just because you have either not really gave a build a chance or it didn’t work for you doesn’t necessarily mean it is bad. It takes time to really master a build and use it to its full potential. There is just a negative stereotype associated with the AH build and it only being for bad players that only want to heal themselves but that’s really not the case.

Like some people have mentioned on here most people will never care what build you are using unless your team wipes. It would be nice if someone would actually post relative information about the Meta build other than its the best.

Anyway the best build in the game is and always will be the one you like/prefer. Do what is best for you because in the end that’s all you will ever do.

The way I see it, the problem with running AH is not simply because it’s selfish. It does provide excellent sustain, but only if you are able to keep dishing out boons. The only way you can dish out boons all the time is if you use a hammer, but that’s not my point here. What I want to note is that most AH builds I see employ 3 shouts, compared to the meta build’s single shout and 2 consecrations (the shout is always “Retreat!”). It’s not that there’s anything wrong with the idea of shouts, it’s that in PvE they simply cannot provide enough of an advantage to turn the tables on your opponent, which almost invariably have large health pools. Compare them to consecrations, the two most used skills from this category are Purging Flames and Wall of Reflection. PF clears 3 conditions and has a low cooldown, while a well placed WoR can greatly boost your DPS and completely protects you from projectiles at the same time.

Simply put, both builds are actually ok, though I think it’s almost certain that the current meta offers superior support by its very nature. I talk only about the trait setup because gear has very little impact on your abilities.

Are we really still talking about AH guardians as being viable? Really? In 2014?

Scandalous really.

It would be nice if someone would actually post relative information about the Meta build other than its the best.

Like what? There is a comprehensive guide stickied to this forum with more information and videos than you could possibly want.

Really, honestly, truly the single best trait Guardians have for pve is Master of Consecrations. This single Adept level trait enables superior reflect uptime and condition removal. Any instance where you don’t need or want reflects or condition removal you don’t want or need a guardian. If you aren’t utilizing a Guardian for reflects or condition removal your party is better off bringing a Thief or an Ele or a Engineer who will all boost team DPS by more than a Guardian.

Therefore, any PvE guardian build that doesn’t use Master of Consecration should be rejected out of hand as unviable, as Guardians themselves aren’t viable in any instance where MoC isn’t useful. What do we conclude from that? You can show me an AH build that does comparable DPS to the meta build, no doubt. But can you show me an AH build that does comparable DPS to the meta build while having Master of Consecrations? No, you cannot, such a build does not exist until we get 80 trait points.

This is exactly like debating a 30/30/0/0/10 Mesmer build vs the meta which uses 20+ in Inspiration. Ofcourse the 30/30 mesmer build has great DPS, but if you don’t have Glamour cooldowns and Wardens Feedback as necessary, why are you bringing a mesmer in the first place? It makes no sense. If you don’t need a mesmer to do mesmery things, bring another class that will actually contribute more and not be a leech. The same is true here: if you dont need a guardian dont play a leech build, switch to a different toon that would actually compliment your party.

Lindbur.2537:

The way I see it, the problem with running AH is not simply because it’s selfish. It does provide excellent sustain, but only if you are able to keep dishing out boons. The only way you can dish out boons all the time is if you use a hammer, but that’s not my point here. What I want to note is that most AH builds I see employ 3 shouts, compared to the meta build’s single shout and 2 consecrations (the shout is always “Retreat!”). It’s not that there’s anything wrong with the idea of shouts, it’s that in PvE they simply cannot provide enough of an advantage to turn the tables on your opponent, which almost invariably have large health pools. Compare them to consecrations, the two most used skills from this category are Purging Flames and Wall of Reflection. PF clears 3 conditions and has a low cooldown, while a well placed WoR can greatly boost your DPS and completely protects you from projectiles at the same time.

Simply put, both builds are actually ok, though I think it’s almost certain that the current meta offers superior support by its very nature. I talk only about the trait setup because gear has very little impact on your abilities.

PF is useful for certain encounters it’s not useful at all times since rarely will you have the whole team stacked in one place unless you are in teamspeak and coordinating or in some specific encounter where stacking is the de facto strategy. (ie lupi) 35 second cd is not considered low cd.

WOR is an obvious choice for a lot of fractals and exp encounters but again is not useful at all times. Those are situational skills that are swapped in during certain encounters.

Shouts do not require stacking in field and are applied to the team as long as they’re in the general area. You can also trait for shout traits that remove conditions on shouts and lower cds. (At a tradeoff of dps of course but also higher survivability due to the vit/healing from traits.)

Note that you are still not required to run triple shouts regardless since you trigger AH with stuff like Fkeys, hammer, staff, and empowering might as well so you can actually run consecrations anyway if you feel like it.

I’ve already pointed this out before but it merits restating. The “meta” dps build is required to take some non zerk gear to make up for how squishy it is and will only become more squishy once vigorous precision, the cornerstone of its survivability is nerfed in the upcoming patch. (double the cd)

While the AH variant can afford to take all zerk gear, which does in fact go towards making up for gaps in dps it suffers from while maintaining far greater sustain.

It’s basically a tradeoff for slightly greater personal dps vs far greater personal sustain.

AH selfish maybe but still pretty awesome.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJASGlYg67YFiPkCJXQ9h4BThG5RXPoIMkhA-TYAiiUF5KyUksIbRA

groups stack anyhow so this build is best and provides prema protection upkeep
the symbol hammer build.
now you could change out a lot with this build third skill could be reflect or aoe fire/cleanse just know when to switch them. or more power which doesn’t help the group much other then more dmg so other two are probably better.
want more shouts take out large symbols for faster recharge and put in hold the line.
everytime that protection symbol pulses your getting healed provide vun on enemy up to like 3-4 stack upkeep and protection 33% reduced dmg to your party.
and you can pop your virtues for instant heal/ regen more protection and might buff to your group.
glacial heart is nice its like frost version of sigil of fire.
you can also switch in strength in numbers you can switch a lot up in this build.

armor celestial/zerker both work Celestial deals bit less dmg but dam all that healing/toughness/vit you get from it without much drop in dps. zerker if your not careful you might get downed but you should stay with 70-100% hp all the time still.
sigils dmg/crit chance your symbols do crit staff I run hydro chil

downside ITS INCREDIBLY boring as hammer auto is basically all your gonna do. banish boss to get into corners and your blast finisher for more might if your running purging flames which is nice or any other fields.
basically start the fight in staff empower symbol swap mighty blow auto attack the rest the fight if you need to dodge away mighty blow back into the fight also dodging heals.

I know about the Gs/sword build but if it pug you’ll probably get downed a lot and that is just less dmg being done and your only providing quick burst/ a lot of vun stacks for a amount of time. I fine the GS/sword build more selfish then this build your just providing big dmg burst while the hammer is always dealing dmg while buffing allies.

The hammer protects the hammer provides never doubt the hammer.

That build is worse than 15/15/10/20/10 Hammer in every conceivable way.

Glacial Heart is one of the worst traits. Nobody runs it in PvP/WvW, let alone PvE…

DeathPanel.8362:

I’ve already pointed this out before but it merits restating. The “meta” dps build is required to take some non zerk gear to make up for how squishy it is and will only become more squishy once vigorous precision, the cornerstone of its survivability is nerfed in the upcoming patch. (double the cd)

While the AH variant can afford to take all zerk gear, which does in fact go towards making up for gaps in dps it suffers from while maintaining far greater sustain.

Required to take non zerk gear? …wut. Some people recommend wearing some Knight pieces until the players is confortable with the build and content. Meta has better burst and sustain. Most AH players are also running staff further hindering their dps and support.

Also, while Vigorous Precision is very nice, it’s not the cornerstone of survivability.

laharl.8435:

DeathPanel.8362:

I’ve already pointed this out before but it merits restating. The “meta” dps build is required to take some non zerk gear to make up for how squishy it is and will only become more squishy once vigorous precision, the cornerstone of its survivability is nerfed in the upcoming patch. (double the cd)

While the AH variant can afford to take all zerk gear, which does in fact go towards making up for gaps in dps it suffers from while maintaining far greater sustain.

Required to take non zerk gear? …wut. Some people recommend wearing some Knight pieces until the players is confortable with the build and content. Meta has better burst and sustain. Most AH players are also running staff further hindering their dps and support.

Also, while Vigorous Precision is very nice, it’s not the cornerstone of survivability.

The “dps” build does not have better sustain. There’s no evidence whatsoever of this.

DeathPanel.8362:

laharl.8435:

DeathPanel.8362:

I’ve already pointed this out before but it merits restating. The “meta” dps build is required to take some non zerk gear to make up for how squishy it is and will only become more squishy once vigorous precision, the cornerstone of its survivability is nerfed in the upcoming patch. (double the cd)

While the AH variant can afford to take all zerk gear, which does in fact go towards making up for gaps in dps it suffers from while maintaining far greater sustain.

Required to take non zerk gear? …wut. Some people recommend wearing some Knight pieces until the players is confortable with the build and content. Meta has better burst and sustain. Most AH players are also running staff further hindering their dps and support.

Also, while Vigorous Precision is very nice, it’s not the cornerstone of survivability.

The “dps” build does not have better sustain. There’s no evidence whatsoever of this.

You do a lupi solo in your build and I’ll do one in my build, we’ll see who’s faster.

The meta build hasn’t been using Vigorous Precision for a while now, and it hasn’t even been noticeable.

Whats your next excuse?

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

The meta build hasn’t been using Vigorous Precision for a while now, and it hasn’t even been noticeable.

Whats your next excuse?

Lol it’s only not noticeable if you are totally unobservant and don’t know how the build works. Why do you think the devs are nerfing it to double the CD? Because it’s precisely allowing for squishy guardian dps builds to have better viability than they should.

Yep, Nike doesn’t know how the build works…

Guardians have plenty of mitigation at their disposal. If you didn’t rely on AH to keep you alive maybe you’d realize this.

laharl.8435:

Yep, Nike doesn’t know how the build works…

Guardians have plenty of mitigation at their disposal. If you didn’t rely on AH to keep you alive maybe you’d realize this.

AH gives me the sustain to be able to gear more for dps instead of adding in non zerk gear and makes it so you rely less on trying to spam blinds which is not consistent or perma vigor, which is getting nerfed.

And if you actually paid attention at all, you’d know I already mentioned I have 2 80 guardians one of which is in fact using the dps build.

But then again paying attention isn’t a key part of being an AH basher.

DeathPanel.8362:

AH gives me the sustain to be able to gear more for dps instead of adding in non zerk gear and makes it so you rely less on trying to spam blinds which is not consistent or perma vigor, which is getting nerfed.

Personally, I’d rather blind so no one gets hit, keep our scholar bonuses and give vulnerability to the enemy. You’d rather the team take a hit since you can out heal it, ok. AH definitely fits your playstyle.

laharl.8435:

DeathPanel.8362:

laharl.8435:

Yep, Nike doesn’t know how the build works…

Guardians have plenty of mitigation at their disposal. If you didn’t rely on AH to keep you alive maybe you’d realize this.

AH gives me the sustain to be able to gear more for dps instead of adding in non zerk gear and makes it so you rely less on trying to spam blinds which is not consistent or perma vigor, which is getting nerfed.

And if you actually paid attention at all, you’d know I already mentioned I have 2 80 guardians one of which is in fact using the dps build.

But then again paying attention isn’t a key part of being an AH basher.

Personally, I’d rather blind so no one gets hit, keep our scholar bonuses and give vulnerability to the enemy. You’d rather the team take a hit since you can out heal it, ok.

Lol Scholar runes? Really? Now I know you are trolling.

DeathPanel.8362:

laharl.8435:

DeathPanel.8362:

laharl.8435:

Yep, Nike doesn’t know how the build works…

Guardians have plenty of mitigation at their disposal. If you didn’t rely on AH to keep you alive maybe you’d realize this.

AH gives me the sustain to be able to gear more for dps instead of adding in non zerk gear and makes it so you rely less on trying to spam blinds which is not consistent or perma vigor, which is getting nerfed.

And if you actually paid attention at all, you’d know I already mentioned I have 2 80 guardians one of which is in fact using the dps build.

But then again paying attention isn’t a key part of being an AH basher.

Personally, I’d rather blind so no one gets hit, keep our scholar bonuses and give vulnerability to the enemy. You’d rather the team take a hit since you can out heal it, ok.

Lol Scholar runes? Really? Now I know you are trolling.

huh?

laharl.8435:

DeathPanel.8362:

laharl.8435:

DeathPanel.8362:

laharl.8435:

Yep, Nike doesn’t know how the build works…

Guardians have plenty of mitigation at their disposal. If you didn’t rely on AH to keep you alive maybe you’d realize this.

AH gives me the sustain to be able to gear more for dps instead of adding in non zerk gear and makes it so you rely less on trying to spam blinds which is not consistent or perma vigor, which is getting nerfed.

And if you actually paid attention at all, you’d know I already mentioned I have 2 80 guardians one of which is in fact using the dps build.

But then again paying attention isn’t a key part of being an AH basher.

Personally, I’d rather blind so no one gets hit, keep our scholar bonuses and give vulnerability to the enemy. You’d rather the team take a hit since you can out heal it, ok.

Lol Scholar runes? Really? Now I know you are trolling.

huh?

Well at the risk of feeding the troll I’ll explain.

Scholar runes is a ridiculous choice for any dps setup especially if you are planning on taking on serious pve content. There’s near 0 chance you’ll get the 6 pc bonus consistently to take advantage of it in a meaningful way in any high lvl fractals especially with certain types of instability modifiers.

It’s also the reason why bloodlust sigils are not too helpful in fractals 40+ because with dps setups 1 unlucky hit easily downs you.

Frankly even having just ruby orbs would be better than scholars for dps not that I’m advocating for ruby orbs.

DeathPanel.8362:

Frankly even having just ruby orbs would be better than scholars for dps not that I’m advocating for ruby orbs.

Are… Are you actually..

No. I don’t believe.

J Eberle.9312:

DeathPanel.8362:

Frankly even having just ruby orbs would be better than scholars for dps not that I’m advocating for ruby orbs.

Are… Are you actually..

No. I don’t believe.

That’s my line.

J Eberle.9312:

People are actually coming out in this day and age and parading around the fact they are running AH?

How embarrassing.

What’s embarrassing in using AH? I’m pretty sure every Guardian had tryed that at leats once, and also, as explain in this topic multiple times is viable. Non-optimal but viable.

Meta runners allways thinking of themselfs as a superior race, oh well

I like how none of you ever actually provide concrete arguments for WHY AH is bad or soooo inferior to your magical “meta” build while many have actually pointed out the details of how the AH build and traits synergize well with a lot of skills and grants sustain while allowing for more offensive gearing.

With exception of one guy earlier who actually had a real argument 99% of arguments coming from the likes of you is essentially “AH = Poop” (actually quoted verbatim from an earlier post) “because I said so”.

It’s almost as if you people are in some form of cult or something.

DeathPanel.8362:

Scholar runes is a ridiculous choice for any dps setup especially if you are planning on taking on serious pve content.

Why was I even paying attention to you…

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

DeathPanel.8362:

laharl.8435:

DeathPanel.8362:

laharl.8435:

DeathPanel.8362:

laharl.8435:

Yep, Nike doesn’t know how the build works…

Guardians have plenty of mitigation at their disposal. If you didn’t rely on AH to keep you alive maybe you’d realize this.

AH gives me the sustain to be able to gear more for dps instead of adding in non zerk gear and makes it so you rely less on trying to spam blinds which is not consistent or perma vigor, which is getting nerfed.

And if you actually paid attention at all, you’d know I already mentioned I have 2 80 guardians one of which is in fact using the dps build.

But then again paying attention isn’t a key part of being an AH basher.

Personally, I’d rather blind so no one gets hit, keep our scholar bonuses and give vulnerability to the enemy. You’d rather the team take a hit since you can out heal it, ok.

Lol Scholar runes? Really? Now I know you are trolling.

huh?

Well at the risk of feeding the troll I’ll explain.

Scholar runes is a ridiculous choice for any dps setup especially if you are planning on taking on serious pve content. There’s near 0 chance you’ll get the 6 pc bonus consistently to take advantage of it in a meaningful way in any high lvl fractals especially with certain types of instability modifiers.

It’s also the reason why bloodlust sigils are not too helpful in fractals 40+ because with dps setups 1 unlucky hit easily downs you.

Frankly even having just ruby orbs would be better than scholars for dps not that I’m advocating for ruby orbs.

You realize we have youtube channels and twitch livestreams documenting with perfect clarity the fact that the opposite of what you say is true and what we say is correct, right? In fact our guild’s fractal 49 guide is on the first page of this subforum. Enjoy!

You do realize that being in a guild group with teamspeak and coordination is a totally different thing than what 99.9% of actual teams are like right? I’m talking about real game world applications here, not contrived boundary examples of what is possible.

J Eberle.9312:

No. No we don’t.

But to sit there and proudly state you are running a bad build is just hilarious.

No you don’t!? Lol if one dude says he likes to run AH all you do is bash the guys with sarcasm and throwing meta build at his face. As far as I know the game haven’t got to the point of “if you want to do a dgn you must shows us your build” yet, and for me experience no one that I’ve seen was kicked from parties for his build, but yes for not knowing the dgn wich is far more important than the build of the Guard in the party or of the warrior or of the ranger or of whatever.

laharl.8435:

DeathPanel.8362:

Scholar runes is a ridiculous choice for any dps setup especially if you are planning on taking on serious pve content.

Why was I even paying attention to you…

You’re welcome to stop trolling here if that is your choice.

mPascoal.4258:

J Eberle.9312:

No. No we don’t.

But to sit there and proudly state you are running a bad build is just hilarious.

No you don’t!? Lol if one dude says he likes to run AH all you do is bash the guys with sarcasm and throwing meta build at his face. As far as I know the game haven’t got to the point of “if you want to do a dgn you must shows us your build” yet, and for me experience no one that I’ve seen was kicked from parties for his build, but yes for not knowing the dgn wich is far more important than the build of the Guard in the party or of the warrior or of the ranger or of whatever.

No. Meta is simply better. In the first couple pages here you can see the arguments offered in support of this, and you can see people clinging to straws and ignoring reality. If you find that threatening and ‘bashing’ to you when someone offers rational arguments then I suggest you abstain from commenting as it’s clearly upsetting to you.

J Eberle.9312:

mPascoal.4258:

J Eberle.9312:

No. No we don’t.

But to sit there and proudly state you are running a bad build is just hilarious.

No you don’t!? Lol if one dude says he likes to run AH all you do is bash the guys with sarcasm and throwing meta build at his face. As far as I know the game haven’t got to the point of “if you want to do a dgn you must shows us your build” yet, and for me experience no one that I’ve seen was kicked from parties for his build, but yes for not knowing the dgn wich is far more important than the build of the Guard in the party or of the warrior or of the ranger or of whatever.

No. Meta is simply better. In the first couple pages here you can see the arguments offered in support of this, and you can see people clinging to straws and ignoring reality. If you find that threatening and ‘bashing’ to you when someone offers rational arguments then I suggest you abstain from commenting as it’s clearly upsetting to you.

Oh yes I can see those people ignoring reality, but from both sides because there are also ppl satting why they like AH and using arguments showing why is still viable and also admiting that it’s not the optimal spec (most of them admited that they also run the meta) but that didn’t changed anything you keepts shouting “Meta and only meta is viable”. Heck I think most of you don’t even know what viable means since only the meta is viable and there are other builds without behing Ah or Meta also viable

J Eberle.9312:

mPascoal.4258:

J Eberle.9312:

No. No we don’t.

But to sit there and proudly state you are running a bad build is just hilarious.

No you don’t!? Lol if one dude says he likes to run AH all you do is bash the guys with sarcasm and throwing meta build at his face. As far as I know the game haven’t got to the point of “if you want to do a dgn you must shows us your build” yet, and for me experience no one that I’ve seen was kicked from parties for his build, but yes for not knowing the dgn wich is far more important than the build of the Guard in the party or of the warrior or of the ranger or of whatever.

No. Meta is simply better. In the first couple pages here you can see the arguments offered in support of this, and you can see people clinging to straws and ignoring reality. If you find that threatening and ‘bashing’ to you when someone offers rational arguments then I suggest you abstain from commenting as it’s clearly upsetting to you.

Lol you mean the posts filled with detailed arguments such as “AH = Poop” ?(quoted verbatim)

Sorry but with exception of maybe one person none of you has offered any real argument beyond childish assertions and taunts since the beginning of this thread.

No one said the “meta” build isn’t good in fact I’ve already pointed out several times one of my guardians is using that build. However to mindlessly dismiss other builds is not only unconvincing it makes the build in question look bad because of the type of mindless rather than actual well thought support it has.

DeathPanel.8362:

laharl.8435:

DeathPanel.8362:

Scholar runes is a ridiculous choice for any dps setup especially if you are planning on taking on serious pve content.

Why was I even paying attention to you…

You’re welcome to stop trolling here if that is your choice.

Deathpanel, mate. I will try to say it in the most polite way: probably you should stop making a fool of yourself.

We all respect the fact that there are different opinions and theory crafting is always healthy, but here when I read your comments it seems a really desperate rant against people who have proven in many ways the efficiency of the meta, etc.

Nobody is asking you to play the meta and I am interested in different opinions; however, your comments result in being misleading for new players and a waste of time for experienced players. You are really arguing against facts which have been proven in many ways (as much as a game without addons allows).

e.g. I also had problems in playing Scholar runes, but that was not due to the fact that the runes were not the optimal choice for PvE DPS.

DeathPanel.8362:

mPascoal.4258:

J Eberle.9312:

No. No we don’t.

But to sit there and proudly state you are running a bad build is just hilarious.

No you don’t!? Lol if one dude says he likes to run AH all you do is bash the guys with sarcasm and throwing meta build at his face. As far as I know the game haven’t got to the point of “if you want to do a dgn you must shows us your build” yet, and for me experience no one that I’ve seen was kicked from parties for his build, but yes for not knowing the dgn wich is far more important than the build of the Guard in the party or of the warrior or of the ranger or of whatever.

The problem with these bashers is because they are just bandwagoners. They themselves actually don’t understand why it is that the build is good or in what situations it is good they just see the sticky on the forum and automatically assume it is some magical build sent forth from Dwayna herself and all others are automatically unworthy.

It’s also why with exception of maybe one person earlier in the thread none of them actually used any details or game data to support their statements, because they themselves don’t actually understand and don’t ever bother to learn themselves.

It’s basically the standard behavior of cultist or fanbois.

Take the hammer build for instance. Sticking AH in there will make you have to give up more than 1 of these things. The whole build is centered around supporting your group. What would you give up to kitten your group support to save yourself?

Meta:
10% multiplier + 5-6 constant vuln
blind and vuln spam
writ of persistance to get more vuln, dps, and achieve perma prot
master of consecrations
another 10% multiplier, more condition removal, or 150 toughness for group

The point of the meta is to provide all the essential and best group support that you bring a guardian into a group for and dump what’s left over to more dps just like every other class. The best thing to do is mitigate damage using this support in the form of traits, utilities, and weapon skills. Guardians have so many blocks, blinds, and projectile destruction that you can facetank stuff and not get hit by utilizing what you have. Valor stops being a help to your group at 10 points and you need to dump 20 more to get something that won’t help anyone else in anyway.

obal.3218:

Take the hammer build for instance. Sticking AH in there will make you have to give up more than 1 of these things. The whole build is centered around supporting your group. What would you give up to kitten your group support to save yourself?

Meta:
10% multiplier + 5-6 constant vuln
blind and vuln spam
writ of persistance to get more vuln, dps, and achieve perma prot
master of consecrations
another 10% multiplier, more condition removal, or 150 toughness for group

The point of the meta is to provide all the essential and best group support that you bring a guardian into a group for and dump what’s left over to more dps just like every other class. The best thing to do is mitigate damage using this support in the form of traits, utilities, and weapon skills. Guardians have so many blocks, blinds, and projectile destruction that you can facetank stuff and not get hit by utilizing what you have.

Giving up 10% multiplier in damage for example to have higher sustain is a trade off, not a direct decrease in effectiveness. Unless the only thing that matters to you is dps and nothing else then in which case it can be viewed as a direct decrease in effectiveness. And I never stated AH was objectively better than the meta. I was simply pointing out that the childish dismissals of AH by some in this forums is without merit.

You see unlike you 99% of the posts here essentially breaks down to “AH = Poop” (quoted verbatim). I appreciate your build and your outline of the strengths and that’s is in fact why of my guards is running that build. It’s just that most people tend to mindlessly follow trends without knowing or finding out why they are what they are and defend them as if they are in a cult. That’s the thing I do not respect.

For the 100th time one of my guardians IS playing the meta build. Do you people even bother to read or do you just jump at anything that questions the sacred “meta” build which you all mindlessly worship? It’s like I’m trying to reason with a bunch of rabid Bieber fangirls. [/quote]

I understood that you weren’t playing Scholar runes, hence not playing the meta.

Anyway, I tried to be constructive, but it really seems you just want to feed the argument for the sake of it. For this reason, I am out.

You would need to give up more than just a 10% multiplier for AH which is the problem. The last one I listed was the free 10 points you can put to get radiant power, strength in numbers, or absolute resolution based on the core of 15/15/0/20/10. You will still need 20 more points and will lose either writ or 2 of the other things listed. It makes AH not worth it if you run a hammer.

Scholar runes only work if you are in a well coordinated team where you can maintain your hp. Otherwise for dps purposes even ruby orbs are better.

You see the difference between you and I is that while I saw this discrepancy in practice and adjusted for it you mindlessly copycat, follow, and defend it.

obal.3218:

You would need to give up more than just a 10% multiplier for AH which is the problem. The last one I listed was the free 10 points you can put to get radiant power, strength in numbers, or absolute resolution based on the core of 15/15/0/20/10. You will still need 20 more points and will lose either writ or 2 of the other things listed. It makes AH not worth it if you run a hammer.

You are the one that stated that one of them on your list would need to be lost for AH so I was just using your data for my argument.

Like I said before, no where did I pretend that AH build variants would have higher or equal dps to yours. All I said was the difference was a trade off of sustain from AH vs higher dps in your build which is mitigated in some part by being able to go full zerk rather than the few knights pieces you had.

ITT: Arguing for the sake of arguing.

Okay you nerds, shut up. This is the single best build out there. If you disagree with me i will flag and report you btw.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJAWWn4DlCaMIigAIaCJ7BLdgKoVh/p6x+IP5DA-jwBB4iBikGg4AKTtIasFYFRjVJjIqWpETKgF1VB-e

This build revolves around burning and staff autoattack. You have great DPS and burning uptime thanks to the supreme justice and permeating wrath trait. This allows you to apply AoE burning EVERY time you autoattack for over a whole second. You don’t even have to crit to get your god tier DPS which makes it automatically better than any zerker build since they need to crit (lol noobs l2play). Basically all u need to do with this build is autoattack with staff and you will be like god, burning everything by just staring at your opponent. Your utilities will be Sword of Justice, Hammer of Wisdom and Bow of truth for that sweet single target damage. You also get all the spirit weapon related traits to make sure they’re SUPER effective. Your heal will be the antitoxin spray to keep those zerker nerds alive that are just looking at you in awe, as you burn dredge to ashes. Your elite will be the tome of wrath for MORE BURNING. Even satan and hell got nothing on you.

Trust me once u run this build u will see the light pce out my brothers and like and subscribe

xsquared.1926:

Okay you nerds, shut up. This is the single best build out there. If you disagree with me i will flag and report you btw.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJAWWn4DlCaMIigAIaCJ7BLdgKoVh/p6x+IP5DA-jwBB4iBikGg4AKTtIasFYFRjVJjIqWpETKgF1VB-e

This build revolves around burning and staff autoattack. You have great DPS and burning uptime thanks to the supreme justice and permeating wrath trait. This allows you to apply AoE burning EVERY time you autoattack for over a whole second. You don’t even have to crit to get your god tier DPS which makes it automatically better than any zerker build since they need to crit (lol noobs l2play). Basically all u need to do with this build is autoattack with staff and you will be like god, burning everything by just staring at your opponent. Your utilities will be Sword of Justice, Hammer of Wisdom and Bow of truth for that sweet single target damage. You also get all the spirit weapon related traits to make sure they’re SUPER effective. Your heal will be the antitoxin spray to keep those zerker nerds alive that are just looking at you in awe, as you burn dredge to ashes. Your elite will be the tome of wrath for MORE BURNING. Even satan and hell got nothing on you.

Trust me once u run this build u will see the light pce out my brothers and like and subscribe

This is amazing. Anyone who disagrees is just bashing

I said you would have to give up more than one of them. Also I only run knights armor + zerk trinkets for a few fractal things I listed which make it go easier and faster for the group which are Archdiviner #2, Snowblind stab the fire event, Old Tom, Uncategorized Champ room to get the Ettin. They can be done with full zerker without the strategies as well. I put knights gear there in general for people starting out or struggling that aren’t comfortable with moving to full zerk yet. You would ultimately move to full zerk when your ready for everything.

Anyway, running the knights will give you more dps, group support, and practice running an optimal build than AH. AH isn’t absolutely awful for gs + sword/focus builds since you have points to spare for MoC and blind/vuln spam still with 0/15/30/0/10 and points to spare. It just isn’t optimal in any way and no point in runningit. For hammer though it isn’t viable since you lose too much.

Long story short many “pro” players will expect the guardian to run of the cookie cutter builds in PvE for the sake of speed and easiness. Pugs will not give a kitten.

At the end of the day the guardian is half expected to carry he group in either situation. Imho if you want to play a class that gets very little criticism in a a group go with warrior. For just about everyone else they assume the player or the class sucks thus they do not want it.

Listen OP if you ask this question the response will be the same. Play the optimized build in a party or you suck and are a waist to the team. If you do not want to hear this do not ask. Just play what you like and your pug will be none the wiser.