Guild Wars 2

After watching the ready up, I can say the Guardian is FINALLY getting a viable condition route, very impressed with what they showed, they showed skill by skill, trait by trait, giving us a good insight to the spec.

But the name doesn’t fit….

Hearing what Karl said about going beyond defending – guarding, they cross a line that borders in obsession.

So why not name it something different (technically all the classes are dragon hunters)

Here are a few examples of different class names that could fit the Guardian better:

Vindicator
Admonisher
Abolisher
Zealot
Inquisitor
Fanatic
Vanquisher

I’m spent, can you guys come up with better names?

Vengeance
Lighthunter
Farlight

I like the names Seraph, Sentinel, and Crusader.

Cupid.

15 chars

lol

Nemitri.8172:

But the name doesn’t fit….

Hearing what Karl said about going beyond defending – guarding, they cross a line that borders in obsession.

Yeah, even the Twitch streamers were describing the new guardian specialization more as a ‘witch hunter’ than a ‘dragon hunter,’ suggesting something along the lines of an Inquisitor, Vindicator, or Vanquisher.

“They hunt not only dragons, but all the dragon minions”

So, If you are a Sylvari Guardian and set yourself on fire… Would you be a successful Dragon Hunter?

NumenorLord.6539:

“They hunt not only dragons, but all the dragon minions”

So, If you are a Sylvari Guardian and set yourself on fire… Would you be a successful Dragon Hunter?

I’m still hoping that they reconsider a change at the very least, just change the name of the spec, let traps be traps (still they could’ve come with a better name like “Seals” or “Runes” and give them a trap mechanic).

Gameplay wise, the new spec looks interesting (not gonna lie on this one), HOWEVER the name is still unfitting and dull.

It would be very easy for them to remove the dragon theme from this specialisation.

Rename the following:
LongBow 5 skill “Hunter’s Ward”.
Elite Trap “Dragon’s Maw”.
Traits “Hunter’s Determination”, “Hunter’s Fortification” and “Big Game Hunter”.
The elite spec name “DragonHunter”

—>That would take the devs less then a hour to do.

Change the following:
The animation for “Dragon’s Maw”.
Sell the unique Longbow and Glove skins on the gem store, give us new unique skins not Dragon themed.

—>This would take slightly longer to do compared to name changes, but should still be easy to do.

Done. I just fixed this elite spec, you are welcome ArenaNet.

Arnath.2319:

It would be very easy for them to remove the dragon theme from this specialisation.

Rename the following:
LongBow 5 skill “Hunter’s Ward”.
Elite Trap “Dragon’s Maw”.
Traits “Hunter’s Determination”, “Hunter’s Fortification” and “Big Game Hunter”.
The elite spec name “DragonHunter”

—>That would take the devs less then a hour to do.

Change the following:
The animation for “Dragon’s Maw”.
Sell the unique Longbow and Glove skins on the gem store, give us new unique skins not Dragon themed.

—>This would take slightly longer to do compared to name changes, but should still be easy to do.

Done. I just fixed this elite spec, you are welcome ArenaNet

You didn’t fix anything. The name has nothing to do with gameplay, and given the explanation from the Ready up, have a valid lore reason now. The difference between DH players, and non DH players is lore wise, the DH players are going to be more suspicious and aggressive towards Sylvari, and the like.

I still don’t understand why everyone is acting like the name is a big deal. ArenaNet should just keep it as is, insteading of wasting time brainstorming about another name. Sure, they could be lazy and just name the DH a Paladin, or any other word for Guardian, but since it’s just a name, and not gameplay, why change it? It’s such a shallow criticism.

People have been more critical about the name of a specialization, than most of the other things announced so far. Some people like the name, others don’t, most people care more about its gameplay, so who should they listen to? In this case, Anet shouldn’t change the names of things, unless there’s a valid reason; like if there’s a skill named Holocaust or something. They gave a lore reason as to what the DH is, and its fine. It’s too subjective to make a big deal about it.

Ryuu.5608:

I’m still hoping that they reconsider a change at the very least, just change the name of the spec, let traps be traps (still they could’ve come with a better name like “Seals” or “Runes” and give them a trap mechanic).

Gameplay wise, the new spec looks interesting (not gonna lie on this one), HOWEVER the name is still unfitting and dull.

And this is the problem with this whole discussion. That is your opinion, not a fact. If you prefer burgers over pizza, or rap over rock that is your opinion. The name has nothing to do with the gameplay, and they’ve given it a lore explanation to make it fit, and since this is their IP, they can work on that explanation to make it fit. This entire issue is superficial and shallow.

It’s a slippery slope if Arenanet starts making decisions based on the personal tastes of the playerbase who is active on either the forums, or other media outlets they have access to. Unless it has an affect on gameplay, there’s no valid reason to change it.

I know this is too mainstream but the preview and the skills make me utter a single word.

“Paladin”
why the hell not. They are the holy guards mostly associated with “light/holy” element. They are known for their ranged support and heavy armor. Nothing else fits better.

I am against the name “dragon hunter” as it is too specific to a class of enemies and also brings us very much close to rangers who are known as hunters in most mmos….
However, they might be naming this specialization because of introduction of bow to the class. Adding more specializations would mean that there will be other names depending on the unlocked weapon.

SilverThorn.5047:

I know this is too mainstream but the preview and the skills make me utter a single word.

“Paladin”
why the hell not. They are the holy guards mostly associated with “light/holy” element. They are known for their ranged support and heavy armor. Nothing else fits better.

It also fits the Guardian, and the thousands of different ways to say Guardian. Nothing about those names screams specialization. How do you specialize in something you’re already good at? It’s like saying a branch of medicine should be called Healing. Or a Mechanic who fixes cars, calling themselves a Car fixer; they already do that. So where does the specialization part come in?

I am against the name “dragon hunter” as it is too specific to a class of enemies and also brings us very much close to rangers who are known as hunters in most mmos….
However, they might be naming this specialization because of introduction of bow to the class. Adding more specializations would mean that there will be other names depending on the unlocked weapon.

That’s sort of the point. They’re specializations. It is supposed to sound specific. In this case, the ready up described them as the equivalent of a Witch Hunter. In other words, they’re hunting everything related to the Elder Dragons, including Sylvari.

Alasteir.7031:

It also fits the Guardian, and the thousands of different ways to say Guardian. Nothing about those names screams specialization. How do you specialize in something you’re already good at? It’s like saying a branch of medicine should be called Healing. Or a Mechanic who fixes cars, calling themselves a Car fixer; they already do that. So where does the specialization part come in?

What were you saying about subjectivities of opinion being presented as fact?

FYI, the Guardian already hunts the dragons.

Alasteir.7031:

Arnath.2319:

It would be very easy for them to remove the dragon theme from this specialisation.

Rename the following:
LongBow 5 skill “Hunter’s Ward”.
Elite Trap “Dragon’s Maw”.
Traits “Hunter’s Determination”, “Hunter’s Fortification” and “Big Game Hunter”.
The elite spec name “DragonHunter”

—>That would take the devs less then a hour to do.

Change the following:
The animation for “Dragon’s Maw”.
Sell the unique Longbow and Glove skins on the gem store, give us new unique skins not Dragon themed.

—>This would take slightly longer to do compared to name changes, but should still be easy to do.

Done. I just fixed this elite spec, you are welcome ArenaNet

You didn’t fix anything. The name has nothing to do with gameplay, and given the explanation from the Ready up, have a valid lore reason now. The difference between DH players, and non DH players is lore wise, the DH players are going to be more suspicious and aggressive towards Sylvari, and the like.

I still don’t understand why everyone is acting like the name is a big deal. ArenaNet should just keep it as is, insteading of wasting time brainstorming about another name. Sure, they could be lazy and just name the DH a Paladin, or any other word for Guardian, but since it’s just a name, and not gameplay, why change it? It’s such a shallow criticism.

People have been more critical about the name of a specialization, than most of the other things announced so far. Some people like the name, others don’t, most people care more about its gameplay, so who should they listen to? In this case, Anet shouldn’t change the names of things, unless there’s a valid reason; like if there’s a skill named Holocaust or something. They gave a lore reason as to what the DH is, and its fine. It’s too subjective to make a big deal about it.

There is no valid lore reason, they gave no valid lore reason, the guy in the live stream struggled to find words, you could see the looks on their faces that they knew the name was stupid and completely illogical.

Guardians should NOT be “more suspicious and aggressive towards Sylvari” that goes against everything the Guardian represents. It goes against it’s entire values, morals, gameplay, EVERYTHING. We should be PROTECTING Sylvari!

The overwhelming majority hate the name, the overwhelming majority hate the illogical dragon theme they obviously forced into this specialisation at the very last minute.

The name and theme of a class is SUPER important, otherwise i would just play a ranger. I don’t want to play a ranger! I want to play a holy warrior who protects his allies with the light.

If names and theme of a class are not important they might as well call Necromancers “Emos” and make them shoot flying pink birds that sing Lady Gaga when they hit the enemy.

Alasteir.7031:

SilverThorn.5047:

I know this is too mainstream but the preview and the skills make me utter a single word.

“Paladin”
why the hell not. They are the holy guards mostly associated with “light/holy” element. They are known for their ranged support and heavy armor. Nothing else fits better.

It also fits the Guardian, and the thousands of different ways to say Guardian. Nothing about those names screams specialization. How do you specialize in something you’re already good at? It’s like saying a branch of medicine should be called Healing. Or a Mechanic who fixes cars, calling themselves a Car fixer; they already do that. So where does the specialization part come in?

wth was that?

you know there are branches of medicine and each “specialization” has it’s own term. Guardian is a common term same as “doctor” but “paladin” emphasizes mastery in range and magic (same as cardiologists is doctor specialized for heart).

Even though Anet has right to decide what they want to do with their game. Players are still allowed to voice their opinions. That is what forums are for. They do make changes based on player response.

Genesis.8572:

Alasteir.7031:

It also fits the Guardian, and the thousands of different ways to say Guardian. Nothing about those names screams specialization. How do you specialize in something you’re already good at? It’s like saying a branch of medicine should be called Healing. Or a Mechanic who fixes cars, calling themselves a Car fixer; they already do that. So where does the specialization part come in?

What were you saying about subjectivities of opinion being presented as fact?

FYI, the Guardian already hunts the dragons.

Because its thematically a synonym. You can’t honestly sit there and think that names like Sentinel is a word that carries a different meaning to Guarding. This isn’t subjective; there exists things such as connotation, and meaning. If two words carry the same connotation, and meaning as a Holy Warrior, then they’re synonyms.

I’ll repeat myself from the part of my post you’ve quoted. Calling a Guardian a Paladin, is sort of like calling a Medical Doctor, a Healer, and then saying they’re different. Or any other synonym for Healer. Guardian, Sentinel, Bulwark, Crusader, Paladin. They’re all in the same class as each other. Crusader is debatable from a real life standpoint, but in terms of character classes, they’re synonyms. The Crusader from D3 for example is a freakin Paladin/Guardian.

FYI, the Guardian doesn’t actively devote themselves to taking down everything dragon related. Lore-wise, if any profession is going to be the ones hunting down Sylvari, its the DH.

There is no valid lore reason, they gave no valid lore reason, the guy in the live stream struggled to find words, you could see the looks on their faces that they knew the name was stupid and completely illogical.

This is utterly nonsensical. They’ve invented the lore, they can make it fit. And logic doesn’t work that way.

Guardians should NOT be “more suspicious and aggressive towards Sylvari” that goes against everything the Guardian represents. It goes against it’s entire values, morals, gameplay, EVERYTHING. We should be PROTECTING Sylvari!

That’s the distinction. At least I hope. Sure, Gw2 can be a game with a rated G story with all lovey dovey hand holding, but it makes NO SENSE, for every person in the world to be trusting of an entire race that was created by an entity that wants ALL LIFE, dead. THAT is what is illogical.

The overwhelming majority hate the name, the overwhelming majority hate the illogical dragon theme they obviously forced into this specialisation at the very last minute.

Care to provide statistics to back this up?

The name and theme of a class is SUPER important, otherwise i would just play a ranger. I don’t want to play a ranger! I want to play a holy warrior who protects his allies with the light.

You’re being completely irrational. The DH is still a guardian, all of their spells, and traps are light related. Their longbow skills are entirely different. Each skill has a different effect. Even skill 5, despite its initial animation, has an entirely different effect. Just because they have a longbow, and traps does not make them rangers. This is as superficial as you can get.

If names and theme of a class are not important they might as well call Necromancers “Emos” and make them shoot flying pink birds that sing Lady Gaga when they hit the enemy.

They’re only important to a degree. Emo is a word that doesn’t carry the same connotation as Necromancer, however, if Emo was a common staple of serious fantasy RPGs, and not a way to rail against teenagers going through an emotional phase, then it wouldn’t matter.

The names are nowhere near as important as the gameplay.

SilverThorn.5047:

Alasteir.7031:

SilverThorn.5047:

I know this is too mainstream but the preview and the skills make me utter a single word.

“Paladin”
why the hell not. They are the holy guards mostly associated with “light/holy” element. They are known for their ranged support and heavy armor. Nothing else fits better.

It also fits the Guardian, and the thousands of different ways to say Guardian. Nothing about those names screams specialization. How do you specialize in something you’re already good at? It’s like saying a branch of medicine should be called Healing. Or a Mechanic who fixes cars, calling themselves a Car fixer; they already do that. So where does the specialization part come in?

wth was that?

you know there are branches of medicine and each “specialization” has it’s own term. Guardian is a common term same as “doctor” but “paladin” emphasizes mastery in range and magic (same as cardiologists is doctor specialized for heart).

Even though Anet has right to decide what they want to do with their game. Players are still allowed to voice their opinions. That is what forums are for. They do make changes based on player response.

Please look up the names of those branches of medicine and notice how each name is very distinguishable. If you have ANY semblance of scientifikitteneracy you would know that there is a big difference between a Cardiologist, and a Psychiatrist. Both medical doctors, but both distinguishing fields. A Cardiologist focuses on the heart, and its immediately affected systems, while a Psychiatrist focuses on the treatment of mental disorders. Notice that huge distinction? They’re both healers, but the differences are noticeable. Same thing when it comes to a Nuclear Physicist, and a Particle Physicist. Or an Evolutionary Biologist, and a Molecular Biologist.

A Paladin is NOT specific, nor distinguishable from a Guardian. The Guardian itself already plays thematically to what a Paladin would play as. A defensive heavy armored class utilizing Holy/Light magic as their source of power.

Alasteir.7031:

Genesis.8572:

Alasteir.7031:

It also fits the Guardian, and the thousands of different ways to say Guardian. Nothing about those names screams specialization. How do you specialize in something you’re already good at? It’s like saying a branch of medicine should be called Healing. Or a Mechanic who fixes cars, calling themselves a Car fixer; they already do that. So where does the specialization part come in?

What were you saying about subjectivities of opinion being presented as fact?

FYI, the Guardian already hunts the dragons.

Because its thematically a synonym. You can’t honestly sit there and think that names like Sentinel is a word that carries a different meaning to Guarding. This isn’t subjective; there exists things such as connotation, and meaning. If two words carry the same connotation, and meaning as a Holy Warrior, then they’re synonyms.

I’ll repeat myself from the part of my post you’ve quoted. Calling a Guardian a Paladin, is sort of like calling a Medical Doctor, a Healer, and then saying they’re different. Or any other synonym for Healer. Guardian, Sentinel, Bulwark, Crusader, Paladin. They’re all in the same class as each other. Crusader is debatable from a real life standpoint, but in terms of character classes, they’re synonyms. The Crusader from D3 for example is a freakin Paladin/Guardian.

FYI, the Guardian doesn’t actively devote themselves to taking down everything dragon related. Lore-wise, if any profession is going to be the ones hunting down Sylvari, its the DH.

You are very much confused here. Though they are synonyms a specialization maintains more specific relation to the subject. A patient with heart issues gets referred to a cardiologist. No one will refer him to “That Doctor on 5th floor”.

On topic… saying a guardian implies many different meanings but a “paladin(or any other specialized name)” would give the guard it’s specialization. Guardians weild magic through “Faith” losing faith in Sylvari will power them up?? For 1 piece of lore you wanna make Guardian into a kiting cheerleader.

You sir are no guardian!

Alasteir.7031:

A Paladin is NOT specific, nor distinguishable from a Guardian. The Guardian itself already plays thematically to what a Paladin would play as. A defensive heavy armored class utilizing Holy/Light magic as their source of power.

Not necessarily, O ye of negligible imagination. D&D is a good example that demonstrates how wrong you are. The new sub-classes/specializations for paladins in 5th edition D&D, play out differently from each other. One is more defensive protector like a guardian, while another is incredibly offensively-oriented and focused on being an “avenging angel of wrath.”

SilverThorn.5047:

Alasteir.7031:

Genesis.8572:

Alasteir.7031:

It also fits the Guardian, and the thousands of different ways to say Guardian. Nothing about those names screams specialization. How do you specialize in something you’re already good at? It’s like saying a branch of medicine should be called Healing. Or a Mechanic who fixes cars, calling themselves a Car fixer; they already do that. So where does the specialization part come in?

What were you saying about subjectivities of opinion being presented as fact?

FYI, the Guardian already hunts the dragons.

Because its thematically a synonym. You can’t honestly sit there and think that names like Sentinel is a word that carries a different meaning to Guarding. This isn’t subjective; there exists things such as connotation, and meaning. If two words carry the same connotation, and meaning as a Holy Warrior, then they’re synonyms.

I’ll repeat myself from the part of my post you’ve quoted. Calling a Guardian a Paladin, is sort of like calling a Medical Doctor, a Healer, and then saying they’re different. Or any other synonym for Healer. Guardian, Sentinel, Bulwark, Crusader, Paladin. They’re all in the same class as each other. Crusader is debatable from a real life standpoint, but in terms of character classes, they’re synonyms. The Crusader from D3 for example is a freakin Paladin/Guardian.

FYI, the Guardian doesn’t actively devote themselves to taking down everything dragon related. Lore-wise, if any profession is going to be the ones hunting down Sylvari, its the DH.

You are very much confused here. Though they are synonyms a specialization maintains more specific relation to the subject. A patient with heart issues gets referred to a cardiologist. No one will refer him to “That Doctor on 5th floor”.

On topic… saying a guardian implies many different meanings but a “paladin(or any other specialized name)” would give the guard it’s specialization. Guardians weild magic through “Faith” losing faith in Sylvari will power them up?? For 1 piece of lore you wanna make Guardian into a kiting cheerleader.

You sir are no guardian!

This is inaccurate. Perhaps the biggest, however debatable, distinction between a Guardian, and its base Archetype, is that the Guardian is agnostic. There is no faith required. Its ultimately defensive magic.

I’m getting the feeling that your entire reason for hating the name DH is not logical, and is nothing more than a Post-Hoc rationalization. Am I right to assume that you wanted the Guardian elite spec to be an upgrade to their existing playstyles, in which they lack a strong ranged weapon? And the resulting disappointment with the name is more of a disappointment that the elite spec won’t be an upgrade?

Genesis.8572:

Alasteir.7031:

A Paladin is NOT specific, nor distinguishable from a Guardian. The Guardian itself already plays thematically to what a Paladin would play as. A defensive heavy armored class utilizing Holy/Light magic as their source of power.

Not necessarily, O ye of negligible imagination. D&D is a good example that demonstrates how wrong you are. The new sub-classes/specializations for paladins in 5th edition D&D, play out differently from each other. One is more defensive protector like a guardian, while another is incredibly offensively-oriented and focused on being an “avenging angel of wrath.”

You mean the 5th edition DnD in which each of the Paladin’s specializations are referred to as Paths. Path of Devotion, Path of Vengeance for example? The Paladin in that edition you cited is still thematically identical to a Guardian. An offensive Guardian would go into Zeal for example.

Alasteir.7031:

You mean the 5th edition DnD in which each of the Paladin’s specializations are referred to as Paths. Path of Devotion, Path of Vengeance for example?

Path. Specialization. It’s a rose by another name. Guess what? They still play differently.

The Paladin in that edition you cited is still thematically identical to a Guardian.An offensive Guardian would go into Zeal for example.

It’s also thematically identical to the Dragonhunter. Do you have a point? No? I thought not.

Arnath.2319:

The overwhelming majority hate the name, the overwhelming majority hate the illogical dragon theme

I doubt the validity of this statement.

There’s a word for this type of phenomenon that I can’t quite remember, but something like confirmation bias or an echo chamber effect or something.

I think it vastly more likely that it’s a minority of the player base kicking up a stink over something inconsequential and suggesting limp flavourless alternatives.

No offence meant to you by the way. I just don’t share your opinion or your taste in names.

Reading some of the posts here I guess you would be OK if they named the Warrior spec Alchemist and give him a pistol shooting elixirs, right ?

Come on, you know Dragonhunter is plain stupid…
When I saw some of you considering the explanation given by Karl McLain as a valid lore reason I almost fainted. Even a child can find something better than “well, you know, they really wanna kill dragons and dragon minions…”

And what about the fact that, after seeing Ready Up, the Dragonhunter doesn’t look like a hunter at all ? It’s just a Guardian. Guardian with a bow, and traps, but still a Guardian.
Nothing could justify the Dragonhunter theme, it’s just totally random. And if not random it is extremely awkward and poorly designed.

Let’s put it this way: If the Guardian elite specialization had been ‘inquisitor/avenger/arbiter/paragon’ or just about anything else that has been thrown around , how many apologists of the name ‘dragonhunter’ would have thought that a ‘dragonhunter’ would have been a more apt name and clamoring for that change?

Genesis.8572:

Let’s put it this way: If the Guardian elite specialization had been ‘inquisitor/avenger/arbiter/paragon’ or just about anything else that has been thrown around , how many apologists of the name ‘dragonhunter’ would have thought that a ‘dragonhunter’ would have been a more apt name and clamoring for that change?

Exactly.

Btw, let’s look at that from another angle :
What if some day they want to make a real draconic spec ? Something that has a real lore justification, that is well made, coherent etc.
Now they can’t ! Because we have this Dragonhunter, that makes no sense at all…
If anybody wanted to make a real Dragonhunter (or whatever it should be called) it wouldn’t look like this Guardian spec we have there.

Part 1:
After having seen the stream, these are the things that I would rename/change, before its to late to let that thign ruin the game with its unfitting immersion breaking design thats completely out of any guardian related context, but shares only parts of its gameplay…

Name: Drahonhunter to Seeker

Weapon: Longbow to Shortbow (seriously, we don’t need another heavy armored Longbow User, we already have the Warrior, if you want to give Guardians a long range weapons, thats also easily possible with a Shortbow and Traits, that increase the range of the Shortbow for them due to using magical light arrows that can be shot on longer distances due to flying much faster than normal physical arrows that have also a weight and by that sre affected by gravity, which magical light arrows ARE NOT AFFECTED BY!!

Skills:

Spear of Justice > Chains of Justice
Its whole animation looks more like hurling a piercing chain at foes, than a spear …
Keeps spears out of the game, until you bring finally Polearm Weapons to the Game and use them as part of another Guardian Elite Spec Weapon (Halberds which could be then thrown like Spears – and name underwater spears then Harpoons/Harpoon Guns > Bolt guns and merge Staffs with Tridents seriously, tridents are so obsolete as Weapon Category, when Staffs woudl do the job aswell underwater, but other topic)!!

Wings of Resolve > Remove the Wing Animation > Leap of Resolve
just keep the whole wannabe angel stuff out of the class design, it just doesn’t fit together at all with the Class Name, keep that for a kind of Patron Elite Spec that is far more a kind of sanctus style holy defender that could work like a kind of guardian angel using Shields as main hand weapon

Shield of Courage > Barrier of Courage
That animation has nothing to do with a shield basically, it looks far more like a protection barrier, some kind of energetic force field in front of you that just shields you and your allies behind it from attacks/projectiles

Heal/Utility/Elite

Change the Traps to “Wards”, the Guardian has ANYWAYS unlike Ranger/Thief no single Specialization at all ,which affects their heavy kitten CD times, so why not give them a Skill Type, thats UNIQUE for them and gets named “Wards”, or "Stigmas, or “Fields” or "Signs or “Banishments” (Exorcist? = one who fights against all evil with the power of light)

Fragment of Faith > Fragments of Trust
Simply would come over a bit more creative, together with Test of Faith and make it sound a bit more different also.

Procession of Blades > Blades of the Sinner
Would sound this way much cooller for a Skill uses by a relentless for justice striving Seeker to punish those who commited crimes with Blades of the Sinner to let them for for their sins that payback what they have done to themself letting them deal slightly lesser hits (in its current form its OP absolutely) and add instead for the reduce amount of hits the effect, that it gives conditions back to their souce, when this skil activates… So Necro spams me full with conditions, runs into my blades of the sinner and for every hit they deal, I lose conditions and spread them over to targets that are affected by blades of the sinner… this way this skill becomes more of a lifesaver, therefore that it deals lesser hits/damage and it would fit more to the theme of the elite spec of beign a Seeker that strives for justice.

LoJ is perfect, maybe the OP looking Vulnerability should get toned down. Yes its 1s, but instant 25% more damage does really look OP to me, especialyl when playec together with other total op burst professions that can spam too much bursts in too short time, like rangers with rapid fire, which add on top also too easily 25 stacks of vulnerability with much longer duration!!

Dragon’s Maw > redesign this skill completely with a different animation. In fact, it would be good, when their new elite is no trap like skill, its enough that their heal and utilities are all this mechanic, no need to make the elite one also too.
Make the Elite some kind of special unique Elite VIRTUE that could work as Signet basically like “Virtue of Faith” which on activation slows nearby foes and as passive gives the Seeker every now and then some seconds of Resistance and which can be given also onto allie,s like the original Guardian Gameplay, so that you have with their new elite skil lat least 1 skill that keepos the oldguardian virtue gameplay for their basically most strongest virtue – Faith.

Part 2:
Weapon Skills

True Shot > Arrow of Truth
True Shot sounds so cheesy and lets you automatically question yoursel,f how a shot can be anyhow true, or not true, but an Arrow of Truth, that actually sounds more compelling, for an shot arrow, that shows your true potential and it could give potentially the chance to let this attack also reveal targets maybe..just a thought.

Hunter’s Ward > Heaven’s Punishment
Just to get that unfittign hunter reference out and giving that skill for its animation a much nicer sounding fitting name that suits to the prison effect that comes from the heaven punishing the foes that get struck by the arrows

Symbol of Energy > Symbolic Arc
Imo a much better fitting name for a skill thats define as an arrow shot in an arc to creat at its point of impact a symbol.

Deflecting Shot > Forcefield Shot/ Deflector Arrow
Verbic skill names always sound so dull. Skill that don’t sound like based on verbs sound much better in my opinions, but I guess, heres thats just a matter of taste ands thats how I do prefer skill names to be.

Puncture Shot > Seeking Arrows
I find this way the autoattack does fit alow better in combo with the rename of the Skill. In fact, its also bonded with nostalgia as there was a GW1 skill named after this
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Seeking_Arrows
It would find its way back into GW2 as Auto Attack Skill for the Seeker this way.

Specializations

Piercing Light > Punishing Light
Hunter’s Determination > Determination of the Watcher
fits simply alot better for a Seeker, who watches very determined to find the right moment to brign justice upon all sinners that need to be punished.
Hunter’s Fortification > Harbinger of Justice
Heavy Light > Radiant Light
The light is not heavy /facepalm, its so radiant and bright, that it blinds foes, so that they retreat by stepping back to get out of that bright light.
Big Game Hunter > Manacles for the Sinners
Suits better for a sinner under chains to get manacles on also to punish them even more for their sins

Pure of Sight
Add to this Specialization also a Range Increase from 900 to 1200 for Shortbows.
Et voila, we would have a long range guardian elite spec, without the need to give them Longbows and that simply with the help of Specializations!! Brilliant, no???
Seriously, can’t believe, that Anet didn’t get on that simple idea as it looks …

Genesis.8572:

Let’s put it this way: If the Guardian elite specialization had been ‘inquisitor/avenger/arbiter/paragon’ or just about anything else that has been thrown around , how many apologists of the name ‘dragonhunter’ would have thought that a ‘dragonhunter’ would have been a more apt name and clamoring for that change?

If the guardian elite specialisation had been inquisitor I’d be asking them to remove any overtly religious references. They’ve done a good job of doing that so far, and the specialisation isn’t anything to do with enforcing religious doctrine or rooting out heresy, no matter how close that is to making a pun.
If it had been avenger I’d have rolled my eyes, but thought eh, it’s childish sounding but it’ll do I suppose, must have been an off-day in the office. Kind of generic and a cynical person would claim jumping on a current band wagon.
If it had been arbiter I’d have laughed my kitten off because setting traps doesn’t sound like the kind of thing that should be in the skill set of someone trying to settle disputes between two factions.
If it had been paragon I’d have considered it far too generically similar to guardian to stand out. It doesn’t highlight any of the differences in play style or skill set.

Dragon Hunter may not have it’s true meaning shrouded behind simple access to a dictionary, but it’s functional in conveying the theme and flavour of the specialisation. No other suggestions I’ve seen to date are similarly functional.

There is no sense of Justice in Dragon Hunter, Its a Matter of Survival, not a matter of fighting for Morally. You could have just called it “Witch Hunter” and be done with it.

Now I understand you guys like to run your social experiments, or maybe have a cooperate head from NCsoft/nexon suggesting this , Thus making you unable to speak freely. So as a Free unbias person I can call your reasoning flawed. edit for (spelling/grammar)

No Thanks Jon.

JonPeters.5630:

A couple notes on Dragonhunter. We went with this name because we felt it was evocative of the medieval witch hunters. Guardians consider themselves protectors of the innocent. Followers of their faith be it in honor, valor, etc. The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions. I understand this is a lot more high concept than Mesmer but at the end of the day we felt like we wanted to try and push a more mature theme here. I hope this helps explain our thinking. We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept. This one falls more in the third category.

Thanks,

Jon

While i respect and your logic, the explanation, and even the name choice for the Elite Spec, allow me to play devils advocate for a moment. I belive the crux of the argument is that for the majority of players, because the games primary antagonists are the elder dragons, they feel in some way they are already hunting dragons, and are thus Dragonhunters. Both the players idea of that, and your explantion of where the name Dragonhunter comes from are valid, but to the players, the subtleness and nuance of the title gets overshadowed by the preconcived ’I already was a dragonhunter". The other known names, Chronomancer and Tempest have the distinction of being things other classes cannot claim to already be. A warrior cannot claim to be a chronomancer, a Ranger cannot claim to be a Tempest. The community would feel better as a whole if the name reflected that nature as well. “A Guardian can be a (elitespec) but a Necromancer cant”

When you fill in Dragonhunter; at its most literal level that creates a false statement in the eyes of the player, thus creating a diminished feeling, since the idea behind Elite Spec was to bring something unique.

I am fine with the name, but I feel this is the core argument against the name.

Yeah… I mean I can see your “point” but I still tend to disagree. I would have much preferred something along the first two because in this specific case the “high concept” just sounds uninspired. And I have a feeling it will feel more like that as people are focusing on various parts of the story or goals in general. I guess while I dislike the sound of the name, it also doesn’t feel like it describes the specialization in a well-rounded manner either.

Thanks for replying Jon, really let’s us know you guys are paying attention to what we are saying but I have to say the logic doesn’t make sense. You can literally have any train of thought for any name you want but at the end of the day its still a generic name. Dragon Hunter is just bland and in the end that’s all it is. I love the bow and I’m accepting of the traps but the name has just got to go. It has nothing to do with Guardian.

Please listen to your fans/customers. We don’t like the name at all.

Well, i guess that’s it. The name won’t be changing. It’s a silly name, with the majority against it, but it’s their game.

As Harvest suggested, it’s not about fighting for morality, so it doesn’t make sense. We’re all essentially dragon hunters in our fight against Modremoth, and other dragons. Many other names would’ve been better.

nexxe.7081:

Well, i guess that’s it. The name won’t be changing. It’s a silly name, with the majority against it, but it’s their game.

As Harvest suggested, it’s not about fighting for morality, so it doesn’t make sense. We’re all essentially dragon hunters in our fight against Modremoth, and other dragons. Many other names would’ve been better.

We are not all dragon hunters. Hunters don’t defend themselves or the land from a threat, which is what we are doing against the dragons. Hunter are on the offensive, the ones that stalk their prey and prepare the traps for it. Hunters don’t fight, they murder.

And not all professions/players share the notion that the only way to fight the dragons is to eliminate them, their minions and the entire Sylvari race.

People are getting way too hung up on this whole name business… Isn’t what it does a lot more important than what it’s called? To be honest, they could’ve called it the Whippersnapper and I still would’ve liked it, simply because they value (for me, at least) lies in the mechanics ten million times more than the name. Didn’t see people complain as much it became known that Ranger’s would be Druid, which I think sounds way more generic and boring than Dragon Hunter. xD

Kreed.2768:

People are getting way too hung up on this whole name business… Isn’t what it does a lot more important than what it’s called? To be honest, they could’ve called it the Whippersnapper and I still would’ve liked it, simply because they value (for me, at least) lies in the mechanics ten million times more than the name. Didn’t see people complain as much it became known that Ranger’s would be Druid, which I think sounds way more generic and boring than Dragon Hunter. xD

Feel of something matters a hell of a lot. its the same way visuals, cosmetics, names, general concepts ALL matter. It’s a lot of what makes people drawn to something. And frankly, the play draws me in but the name leaves a bitter taste.

nexxe.7081:

Well, i guess that’s it. The name won’t be changing. It’s a silly name, with the majority against it, but it’s their game.

As Harvest suggested, it’s not about fighting for morality, so it doesn’t make sense. We’re all essentially dragon hunters in our fight against Modremoth, and other dragons. Many other names would’ve been better.

Interesting, how did you measure this? I’d like to see that statistic.

It is mind blowing to me, how many of you don’t understand the thinking behind the name and the theme. To me it was unexpected, but it was an understandable choice.

Guardians are devoted fighters who protect their allies and smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their virtues. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfless defenders who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to empower their allies to achieve victory.

This is from the GW2 website describing the guardian. How is dedicating oneself to fight the greatest danger in the history of the world not a worthy cause for a profession that lives to protect? You all seem to compare it with mercenary style demon hunter themes. However, the idea behind Dragonhunter is very obvious. You seem to be more entangled in your expectations of a profession theme than with the actual profession theme itself. The reason for disappointment seems to lay within yourself instead with the actual profession.

And about the reasoning of ‘us all being dragon hunters’, regardless of profession… We are also all warriors, should we now change that class name too, because it doesn’t really describe the uniqueness of warrior?

To me, just simply adding to the word ‘Dragonhunter’ the word ‘order’ (instead of faction, as Jon did it), makes it suddenly sound way different, than what you make it to be. And being part of a dedicated order of Dragonhunters sounds in my ears like a very worthy cause for a guardian.

Part 1:

@ Jon Peters
And what do you guys make, if the majority of the community simply doesn’t like “high concept” names that stand completely out of context from the original class?
I can naturally speak only for myself, but that massive reaction on the name here in my opinion speaks for itself.

What if it is more than enough for mostly everyone to have just generic and tyrian fantasy in GW2 to make the result look as congruent with each other as possible?

First I want to thank you, that you are the first who breaks the ice and says something about the name here.
However, don’t you think something like a Seeker, or a Justiciar, or an Inquisitor could have worked also too in regard of your “Witch Hunter” vision without that the name totally alienates with the origin of the Guardian to make it forcefully look like something completely different that acts more aggressively out of a sudden???

All options of proper alternatives like Seeker, Justiciar, Inquisitior, Crusader, Templar, Arbiter would have been also all very well functionizing as very subtle nuanced versions of a Guardian, that could give the player the feeling of providing a more aggressive orientated playstyle, but without losing actually it’s context to the Guardian as much as like the Dragonhunter, where it’s complete design is somewhat incongruent with all parts of it in itself together with that unfitting name, that in itself it is practically a bad grammared violation against your own naming schemes so far just to make it look more fitting into the list and not being visually that much of a black sheep under white ones by letting it be a dragonhunter and not how it would be correct basically a dragon hunter.

Heck, I could even live with something simple as like just “Hunter” (that way it sounds again more like a profession and not like a generic title that everyone has by default basically), if there would be a good and understandable lore reason behind all of this which explains this.
Normally I would expect something like Hunter under the possible Ranger Elite Specs…

Dude A to Dude B: Hey, what is your Speciality?
Dude B: Me? Oh I’m a Dragonhunter!
Dude A: Oh, cool, me too!!
Dude B: Oh really? But you look more like a Scholar in Pyromancy. Are you sure you’re not an Elementalist?
Dude A: Oh yes, I’m an Elementalist who killed already tons of thousands of Dragon Minions. So this makes be an absolute Pro Dragonhunter! I’m famous for that you know? – this title spreads around faster than I can walk! What was again your Speciality?
Dude B: /facepalm Forget it …

Part 2:

When you want to make Justice = Erase all Dragons the principle of the Elite Specialization, I must disagree with you, because that principle does work also with generic or tyrian fantasy names that aren’t of “high concept”
However, I don’t understand what about something like this “high concept” is at all about.
For me is naming things, that have no contextual connection to its origin and sharing just with each other only a few mechanics just “Low Concept” of poor creativity/quality.

A good counter example to that is the Chronomancer, because there fits simply everything out of mechanics and context perfectly together. Yes, its a made up word, one may argue here now, but its in the MMO Genre a rather uncommon used fantasy term thats widely accepted as a synonym for time mages mostly due to Offline RPGs already like the Final Fantasy Series which mostly likely will be the game where most people get the concept from time magic, as that game series is one of the most well known ones for having also Chronomancers basically wioth that alot of people of the current generations grew up with.

The point is, and thats where I simply can’t get an answer on, what is something only you Devs could answers:

What is the problem with giving the Guardian Elite Specialization a more generic/tyrian fantasy based name, that doesn#t sound like a generic title, but is at the same time in the MMO Genre so uncommonly used, that ANet could easily turn it into something unique, thats helps to push this game further into a direction of providing more fun and different unque experiences with fitting catchy names still, that you mostly never saw before being used in any other MMOG before?

Do you know any MMOG so far out there, that has a playable Seeker/Justiciar/Inquisitor Profession?

I know of just only 1 MMO in development, that will get to see a “Seeker” Class, but that will be somehing totally different of what GW2 would have, thus our version would still be 100% unique then and a completely different playstyle experience.
I’m speaking of Dragons Dogma Online, where the “Strider” will be basically get renamed for that game from the Offline Version to “Seeker” in the MMO, but gameplay won’t change very much, they will still be a very nimble class thats using lots of strings and acrobatic moves, than being a heavy armored kind of light magic archer.

Thats where I basically have my inspiration from as I was the first here, who suggested that name as a rename option, where most others prefered the Arbiter early here.

Naming the Elite Spec something like Seeker, Justiciar or inquisitor woudl make the Elite Spec not more mature? Are you serious? Do you reeally believe such an total out of context name makes the guardian Elite Specialization do look in any way more “mature”?

Seriously, if thats it what was the mere intention, then you failed very hard at this goal, because in my opinion you just reached the complete opposite thing with that name, than what was intentioned with it.
Why? Because this name simply comes over like from the mind of a 10 year old CHILD that can’t think very good in contexts and just decides rather things over, what sounds “cooler”, than what sounds “more mature and appropiate”.

TyPin.9860:

nexxe.7081:

Well, i guess that’s it. The name won’t be changing. It’s a silly name, with the majority against it, but it’s their game.

As Harvest suggested, it’s not about fighting for morality, so it doesn’t make sense. We’re all essentially dragon hunters in our fight against Modremoth, and other dragons. Many other names would’ve been better.

Interesting, how did you measure this? I’d like to see that statistic.

It is mind blowing to me, how many of you don’t understand the thinking behind the name and the theme. To me it was unexpected, but it was an understandable choice.

Guardians are devoted fighters who protect their allies and smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their virtues. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfless defenders who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to empower their allies to achieve victory.

This is from the GW2 website describing the guardian. How is dedicating oneself to fight the greatest danger in the history of the world not a worthy cause for a profession that lives to protect? You all seem to compare it with mercenary style demon hunter themes. However, the idea behind Dragonhunter is very obvious. You seem to be more entangled in your expectations of a profession theme than with the actual profession theme itself. The reason for disappointment seems to lay within yourself instead with the actual profession.

And about the reasoning of ‘us all being dragon hunters’, regardless of profession… We are also all warriors, should we now change that class name too, because it doesn’t really describe the uniqueness of warrior?

To me, just simply adding to the word ‘Dragonhunter’ the word ‘order’ (instead of faction, as Jon did it), makes it suddenly sound way different, than what you make it to be. And being part of a dedicated order of Dragonhunters sounds in my ears like a very worthy cause for a guardian.

Well first of all Anet doesn’t approve of us conducting independent polls, hence why they’ve all been shut down when linked to the forums. Go find the straw poll on reddit or take your own tally to find out.

The actually profession Theme has everything to do with light magic, It would actually make more sense to call the Class Holomancer, like the one in the personal story. This would take away any ambiguity. But from the looks of things Anet is either just too proud and Stubborn to admit their own mistake, or they are really intrigue by their God game of testing forum interaction.

This might also be a classical case of falling out of touch. As someone with an Bacherlors of Fine Arts degree and a Certified IT, I know the feeling getting a different response than what I had intend during production. Public Critique like this is for the very purpose of bringing back focus. Focus which is clearly lost in communicating, and presenting this class, I know cause I have written, and Reviewed hundreds of Essays, proposals, and articles.

TyPin.9860:

nexxe.7081:

Well, i guess that’s it. The name won’t be changing. It’s a silly name, with the majority against it, but it’s their game.

As Harvest suggested, it’s not about fighting for morality, so it doesn’t make sense. We’re all essentially dragon hunters in our fight against Modremoth, and other dragons. Many other names would’ve been better.

Interesting, how did you measure this? I’d like to see that statistic.

It is mind blowing to me, how many of you don’t understand the thinking behind the name and the theme. To me it was unexpected, but it was an understandable choice.

Guardians are devoted fighters who protect their allies and smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their virtues. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfless defenders who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to empower their allies to achieve victory.

This is from the GW2 website describing the guardian. How is dedicating oneself to fight the greatest danger in the history of the world not a worthy cause for a profession that lives to protect? You all seem to compare it with mercenary style demon hunter themes. However, the idea behind Dragonhunter is very obvious. You seem to be more entangled in your expectations of a profession theme than with the actual profession theme itself. The reason for disappointment seems to lay within yourself instead with the actual profession.

And about the reasoning of ‘us all being dragon hunters’, regardless of profession… We are also all warriors, should we now change that class name too, because it doesn’t really describe the uniqueness of warrior?

To me, just simply adding to the word ‘Dragonhunter’ the word ‘order’ (instead of faction, as Jon did it), makes it suddenly sound way different, than what you make it to be. And being part of a dedicated order of Dragonhunters sounds in my ears like a very worthy cause for a guardian.

http://strawpoll.me/4303143/r

This is the poll on it. Has a pretty significant amount of voters (Over 3000, and was shared on several social media sites), and yes, over 50% is negative, with a portion neutral and the “highly positive” is very very low.

John, EVERYONE believes that justice is the eradication of dragons. Dragons are indisputably evil monsters without the tiniest shred of goodness. If you want “Dragon hunter” to be as compelling as “Witch hunter”, you would have to give dragons even a single sympathetic trait, which so far you have completely failed to do.

Here’s a better question: What kind of person WOULDN’T believe that justice is the eradication of dragons? The Sons of Svanir? The Inquest? People who make Hitler look like a saint that’s who. People who are so exaggeratedly evil that it’s comical. Setting yourself apart from them is not even the slightest bit of an accomplishment.

Eggs.3142:

JonPeters.5630:

A couple notes on Dragonhunter. We went with this name because we felt it was evocative of the medieval witch hunters. Guardians consider themselves protectors of the innocent. Followers of their faith be it in honor, valor, etc. The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions. I understand this is a lot more high concept than Mesmer but at the end of the day we felt like we wanted to try and push a more mature theme here. I hope this helps explain our thinking. We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept. This one falls more in the third category.

Thanks,

Jon

While i respect and your logic, the explanation, and even the name choice for the Elite Spec, allow me to play devils advocate for a moment. I belive the crux of the argument is that for the majority of players, because the games primary antagonists are the elder dragons, they feel in some way they are already hunting dragons, and are thus Dragonhunters. Both the players idea of that, and your explantion of where the name Dragonhunter comes from are valid, but to the players, the subtleness and nuance of the title gets overshadowed by the preconcived ’I already was a dragonhunter". The other known names, Chronomancer and Tempest have the distinction of being things other classes cannot claim to already be. A warrior cannot claim to be a chronomancer, a Ranger cannot claim to be a Tempest. The community would feel better as a whole if the name reflected that nature as well. “A Guardian can be a (elitespec) but a Necromancer cant”

When you fill in Dragonhunter; at its most literal level that creates a false statement in the eyes of the player, thus creating a diminished feeling, since the idea behind Elite Spec was to bring something unique.

I am fine with the name, but I feel this is the core argument against the name.

Bump^

A good example that backs this up would be to call the Elite spec Divinehunter, which no other class can claim to have, and can be connected to the Guardian UNIQUELY

Ever do that trick with a magnifying glass to set things on fire when you were a kid?

Magnifier.

Thanks for the reply Jon, really appreciate it