Guild Wars 2

JonPeters.5630:

A couple notes on Dragonhunter.
…
We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept. This one falls more in the third category.

Thanks,

Jon

Trust me. Some of us get it. Some of us even got how it fit into and arose from the setting just by reading the initial blog description of the lore/background/theme.

Thought you might want to put some kind of “dragon hunter chapterhouse” on the Meguma maps just to really ram the point home.

From what I’m gathering people would rather it be called Witch Hunter than Dragon Hunter because the term “Witch” is inherently associated with being evil and that goes against the thematic elements of the Guardian blah blah blah. Now having said that, WHERE ARE THE kitten WITCHES IN THE GUILD WARS UNIVERSE? I don’t know about any of you but I’ve yet to encounter any.

The majority of you people just dislike the name for the simple fact that it has “Dragon” in it and you automatically associate that with a childish mindset. In the GW2 universe the evil and corrupt are the DRAGONS and the DRAGONS MINIONS so why is it so unbearably hard to comprehend the fact that a sect of righteous, holy warriors have chosen to hunt down and exterminate the corruption and evil that’s spreading?

Now you may say “WAHHH BUT EVERYBODY HUNTS AND EXTERMINATES THEM!” and you’d be wrong. During this time there IS a unified effort to combat and stop the Elder Dragons, yes, however that is NOT the main goal of the other classes. Engineers didn’t suddenly wake up one morning and go “Hey, you know what? I think I’m going to become technologically proficient so that years from now I’m going to possess all the relevant skills I need to fight something that myself, nor others actually know is coming or even believes to be real for that matter!”

My god you people are kittening thick.

RabbitUp.8294:

nexxe.7081:

Well, i guess that’s it. The name won’t be changing. It’s a silly name, with the majority against it, but it’s their game.

As Harvest suggested, it’s not about fighting for morality, so it doesn’t make sense. We’re all essentially dragon hunters in our fight against Modremoth, and other dragons. Many other names would’ve been better.

We are not all dragon hunters. Hunters don’t defend themselves or the land from a threat, which is what we are doing against the dragons. Hunter are on the offensive, the ones that stalk their prey and prepare the traps for it. Hunters don’t fight, they murder.

And not all professions/players share the notion that the only way to fight the dragons is to eliminate them, their minions and the entire Sylvari race.

..because the Pact isn’t actively hunting Modremoth, right? Heart of Thorns is exactly all about that. Didn’t you play Season 2?

Srolo.5208:

From what I’m gathering people would rather it be called Witch Hunter than Dragon Hunter because the term “Witch” is inherently associated with being evil and that goes against the thematic elements of the Guardian blah blah blah. Now having said that, WHERE ARE THE kitten WITCHES IN THE GUILD WARS UNIVERSE? I don’t know about any of you but I’ve yet to encounter any.

The majority of you people just dislike the name for the simple fact that it has “Dragon” in it and you automatically associate that with a childish mindset. In the GW2 universe the evil and corrupt are the DRAGONS and the DRAGONS MINIONS so why is it so unbearably hard to comprehend the fact that a sect of righteous, holy warriors have chosen to hunt down and exterminate the corruption and evil that’s spreading?

Now you may say “WAHHH BUT EVERYBODY HUNTS AND EXTERMINATES THEM!” and you’d be wrong. During this time there IS a unified effort to combat and stop the Elder Dragons, yes, however that is NOT the main goal of the other classes. Engineers didn’t suddenly wake up one morning and go “Hey, you know what? I think I’m going to become technologically proficient so that years from now I’m going to possess all the relevant skills I need to fight something that myself, nor others actually know is coming or even believes to be real for that matter!”

My god you people are kittening thick.

I said I would rather have Witch Hunter if they want to go that route with Hunter, someone on the HOT post is suggesting DivineHunter now which is something I would also be alright with.

What childish Mindset are you talking about? If you are using other games as a comparision those with dragon in their class names are related in some way to dragons. We know its a unified force of multi talented people fighting the dragons, and their spawn. But there is no clear rivalry that designates a guardian with longbow as the clear hunter of dragons that is better at it than the over classes.

It actually Cheapens the value to say this Guardian is specializing as a Dragon Hunter, when you have a clear Chronomancer, Druid, and Tempest. Now you’ve probably never studied language or history to my extent, but you shouldn’t need to in order to see that calling this Dragonhunter sounds like a 2nd rate pedestrian in comparison.

ronpierce.2760:

This is the poll on it. Has a pretty significant amount of voters (Over 3000, and was shared on several social media sites), and yes, over 50% is negative, with a portion neutral and the “highly positive” is very very low.

Your poll has 3 different flavours of ambivalence on the topic. Those 3 together far outweigh both support and opposition of the name. With that in mind, a name change would be rather silly.

Never mind factoring in the bias towards a negative outcome inherent in the testing methodology used. (eg. the issue of poll visibility for people likely to be “I love it” voters [people with no complaints are less likely to visit the forums and click on the change this name threads], no “somewhat positive but don’t really care” option to balance the “somewhat negative but don’t really care” option, no “reserving judgment until further information is released” option so people who fell into that category would be more likely to just not vote yet, etc.)

Thanks for posting by the way Jon. It’s always nice to hear from devs.

Edit for fairness It was a really good idea starting a poll on it, it’s just that the results aren’t properly indicative of an overall negative trend in the population as a whole, due to a lack of eliminating bias. If anything it just shows that the majority of the population don’t really give a toss.

Gotta say, I am INCREDIBLY happy with the Longbow, all of the skills are amazing. I’m still curious about the traps but we’ll see. The traits are also awesome in a sense that you DO NOT have to spec into traps to gain significant benefits so overall, amazing specialization.

JonPeters.5630:

A couple notes on Dragonhunter. We went with this name because we felt it was evocative of the medieval witch hunters. Guardians consider themselves protectors of the innocent. Followers of their faith be it in honor, valor, etc. The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions. I understand this is a lot more high concept than Mesmer but at the end of the day we felt like we wanted to try and push a more mature theme here. I hope this helps explain our thinking. We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept. This one falls more in the third category.

Thanks,

Jon

I understand the logic but it fails to apply to this game, not all dragons are evil Glint, and possibly her egg, are allies. Not all Sylvari are corrupt, and the ones who are we (the guardian) should be seeking to save them, not hunt them.

If dragons were not the main enemy of the game and not a key element to the story then i would agree with you, but where is the distinction between DragonHunters and every other profession Hunting Dragons?

Do DragonHunters have an advantage over every other profession when it comes to fighting dragons? Do we receive a 10% buff when fighting dragons for example? Are DragonHunters now the only profession in game capable of defeating the elder dragons?

Harvest.2506:

Srolo.5208:

Snip.

I said I would rather have Witch Hunter if they want to go that route with Hunter, someone on the HOT post is suggesting DivineHunter now which is something I would also be alright with.

What childish Mindset are you talking about? If you are using other games as a comparision those with dragon in their class names are related in some way to dragons. We know its a unified force of multi talented people fighting the dragons, and their spawn. But there is no clear rivalry that designates a guardian with longbow as the clear hunter of dragons that is better at it than the over classes.

It actually Cheapens the value to say this Guardian is specializing as a Dragon Hunter, when you have a clear Chronomancer, Druid, and Tempest. Now you’ve probably never studied language or history to my extent, but you shouldn’t need to in order to see that calling this Dragonhunter sounds like a 2nd rate pedestrian in comparison.

I wasn’t targeting you specifically as other people have voiced similar complaints about it for no other reason than the name. The name is fitting. Whether or not people sit down and actually want to think about it or accept it is another issue. And it’s not “cheapening” it at all. Again, why is it so hard to believe that a holy warrior chose to SPECIALIZE in hunting down the perverse and corrupted that is now tainting the land? That happens to be dragons in this game. That’s just what it is.

I’ll say it again because I’m sure people are just going to skim through it…A holy warrior SPECIALIZING in hunting the Dragons and their minions. The other classes don’t have SPECIALIZATIONS named things like that because the other classes aren’t SPECIALIZING in hunting and killing the Dragons and their minions from a lore standpoint. The “Holy Warriors” e.g. Guardians are. There’s a difference between fighting and killing something out of necessity, and actively wanting to.

Chronomancers and Druids don’t become Chronomancers and Druids to actively hunt and kill the corruption and taint. They do it to manipulate time and to attune to nature.

You’re mixing up lore and gameplay. Gameplay wise, yes every class is able to fight just as effectively because if they couldn’t then there wouldn’t really be a game now would there be? Lore wise, it’s the Dragon Hunters who have taken it upon themselves, whether right or wrong reasons, to cleanse the land of the corruption and taint as they feel it’s their duty. People are mixing the two together and they need to stop.

I think that ANet would have used Paragon, if they hadn’t already tied it to the PVP achievements for Guardians.
As a name, I am seeing Dragon Hunter along the same line as Game Warden, which makes it even funnier.

Srolo.5208:

Harvest.2506:

Srolo.5208:

Snip.

I said I would rather have Witch Hunter if they want to go that route with Hunter, someone on the HOT post is suggesting DivineHunter now which is something I would also be alright with.

What childish Mindset are you talking about? If you are using other games as a comparision those with dragon in their class names are related in some way to dragons. We know its a unified force of multi talented people fighting the dragons, and their spawn. But there is no clear rivalry that designates a guardian with longbow as the clear hunter of dragons that is better at it than the over classes.

It actually Cheapens the value to say this Guardian is specializing as a Dragon Hunter, when you have a clear Chronomancer, Druid, and Tempest. Now you’ve probably never studied language or history to my extent, but you shouldn’t need to in order to see that calling this Dragonhunter sounds like a 2nd rate pedestrian in comparison.

I’ll say it again because I’m sure people are just going to skim through it…A holy warrior SPECIALIZING in hunting the Dragons and their minions. The other classes don’t have SPECIALIZATIONS named things like that because the other classes aren’t SPECIALIZING in hunting and killing the Dragons and their minions from a lore standpoint. The “Holy Warriors” e.g. Guardians are. There’s a difference between fighting and killing something out of necessity, and actively wanting to. .

So where is my 10% damage buff when fighting dragons?
Where in our skills or traits do we get an advantage over every other profession in fighting dragons?
That is the ONLY way the name “Dragon Hunter” will work, if we are going to specialise in hunting down and killing these dragons then lore wise and gameplay wise we need a distinct advantage over every other profession.

Srolo.5208:

Harvest.2506:

Srolo.5208:

Snip.

I said I would rather have Witch Hunter if they want to go that route with Hunter, someone on the HOT post is suggesting DivineHunter now which is something I would also be alright with.

What childish Mindset are you talking about? If you are using other games as a comparision those with dragon in their class names are related in some way to dragons. We know its a unified force of multi talented people fighting the dragons, and their spawn. But there is no clear rivalry that designates a guardian with longbow as the clear hunter of dragons that is better at it than the over classes.

It actually Cheapens the value to say this Guardian is specializing as a Dragon Hunter, when you have a clear Chronomancer, Druid, and Tempest. Now you’ve probably never studied language or history to my extent, but you shouldn’t need to in order to see that calling this Dragonhunter sounds like a 2nd rate pedestrian in comparison.

I wasn’t targeting you specifically as other people have voiced similar complaints about it for no other reason than the name. The name is fitting. Whether or not people sit down and actually want to think about it or accept it is another issue. And it’s not “cheapening” it at all. Again, why is it so hard to believe that a holy warrior chose to SPECIALIZE in hunting down the perverse and corrupted that is now tainting the land? That happens to be dragons in this game. That’s just what it is.

I’ll say it again because I’m sure people are just going to skim through it…A holy warrior SPECIALIZING in hunting the Dragons and their minions. The other classes don’t have SPECIALIZATIONS named things like that because the other classes aren’t SPECIALIZING in hunting and killing the Dragons and their minions from a lore standpoint. The “Holy Warriors” e.g. Guardians are. There’s a difference between fighting and killing something out of necessity, and actively wanting to.

Chronomancers and Druids don’t become Chronomancers and Druids to actively hunt and kill the corruption and taint. They do it to manipulate time and to attune to nature.

You’re mixing up lore and gameplay. Gameplay wise, yes every class is able to fight just as effectively because if they couldn’t then there wouldn’t really be a game now would there be? Lore wise, it’s the Dragon Hunters who have taken it upon themselves, whether right or wrong reasons, to cleanse the land of the corruption and taint as they feel it’s their duty. People are mixing the two together and they need to stop.

I get the point that the purpose of this profession specialization is in taking out the dragons, But it is Very poorly communicated. Traditionally the language to refer to such an opposite would be used with words like Bane., or Slayer, maybe even DragonKnight to get that offensive vibe. With the Hunt, verbs such as Tracking, and patience come to mind, which undermines the whole light magic theme.

Now I get that the traps don’t trigger right away after being set, but I don’t like the idea of a weakness being framed for the namesake. Chronomancers and druids, manipulate time and attune to nature in this expansion as they are Hunting dragons too. that’s the Plot of our story as their ends to justify their means, which doesn’t justify the Name for DH. We have to objectify the methods for which we are going for our results.

Now I’ve done more searching, and would again advise names such as LightSlinger, or DivineHunter be more fitting, as they entail the actions of which makes this a specialization, and can be identified with Guardians. Anet has made it clear they don’t want anymore Class merging in their plan, and Calling this Specialization Dragonhunter not only goes against that plan, but brings about much inconsistency.

JonPeters.5630:

A couple notes on Dragonhunter. We went with this name because we felt it was evocative of the medieval witch hunters. Guardians consider themselves protectors of the innocent. Followers of their faith be it in honor, valor, etc. The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions. I understand this is a lot more high concept than Mesmer but at the end of the day we felt like we wanted to try and push a more mature theme here. I hope this helps explain our thinking. We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept. This one falls more in the third category.

Thanks,

Jon

Christ that is terrible reasoning. “Other generic names”. What could be more generic than “Dragonhunter”? And there is NOTHING subtle or nuanced about “Dragonhunter.”

There is absolutely nothing about this name that evokes imagery of witch-hunters and the fact they have to come out and defend the name proves it’s a terrible name. Additionally, the description of “big game hunter” doesn’t mesh with witch hunting either!

On top of this, it’s insulting that he defends the name by pretending it’s somehow hard to grasp… as if it’s a mature concept that escapes us. NO, no it’s not Mr. Peters. There is nothing “high concept” about this…. and there’s nothing highbrow about the name or difficult to get. In fact, it’s quite “lowbrow” that you’re going with the generic “dragons r evil” route. Previously, the lore held that dragons were akin to forces of nature; part of the natural cycle of magic in Tyria. Would we have Tornadohunters? Earthquakehunters?

You are dumbing down the lore and ruining the Guardian archtype by pigeonholing it into the current PVE story in one fell swoop.

Do the right thing and change the name.

Arnath.2319:

Srolo.5208:

Harvest.2506:

Srolo.5208:

Snip.

I said I would rather have Witch Hunter if they want to go that route with Hunter, someone on the HOT post is suggesting DivineHunter now which is something I would also be alright with.

What childish Mindset are you talking about? If you are using other games as a comparision those with dragon in their class names are related in some way to dragons. We know its a unified force of multi talented people fighting the dragons, and their spawn. But there is no clear rivalry that designates a guardian with longbow as the clear hunter of dragons that is better at it than the over classes.

It actually Cheapens the value to say this Guardian is specializing as a Dragon Hunter, when you have a clear Chronomancer, Druid, and Tempest. Now you’ve probably never studied language or history to my extent, but you shouldn’t need to in order to see that calling this Dragonhunter sounds like a 2nd rate pedestrian in comparison.

I’ll say it again because I’m sure people are just going to skim through it…A holy warrior SPECIALIZING in hunting the Dragons and their minions. The other classes don’t have SPECIALIZATIONS named things like that because the other classes aren’t SPECIALIZING in hunting and killing the Dragons and their minions from a lore standpoint. The “Holy Warriors” e.g. Guardians are. There’s a difference between fighting and killing something out of necessity, and actively wanting to. .

So where is my 10% damage buff when fighting dragons?
Where in our skills or traits do we get an advantage over every other profession in fighting dragons?
That is the ONLY way the name “Dragon Hunter” will work, if we are going to specialise in hunting down and killing these dragons then lore wise and gameplay wise we need a distinct advantage over every other profession.

Try reading my post again then get back to me. I’ve already answered everything you’ve just typed out there. Thanks for showing you’re either trying to selectively use things to further your own opinion/agenda or you don’t care enough to read somebody’s entire post. If it’s the latter then you’ve completely discredited yourself and I’ll refrain from even acknowledging yours in the future.

Srolo.5208:

Arnath.2319:

Srolo.5208:

Harvest.2506:

Srolo.5208:

Snip.

I said I would rather have Witch Hunter if they want to go that route with Hunter, someone on the HOT post is suggesting DivineHunter now which is something I would also be alright with.

What childish Mindset are you talking about? If you are using other games as a comparision those with dragon in their class names are related in some way to dragons. We know its a unified force of multi talented people fighting the dragons, and their spawn. But there is no clear rivalry that designates a guardian with longbow as the clear hunter of dragons that is better at it than the over classes.

It actually Cheapens the value to say this Guardian is specializing as a Dragon Hunter, when you have a clear Chronomancer, Druid, and Tempest. Now you’ve probably never studied language or history to my extent, but you shouldn’t need to in order to see that calling this Dragonhunter sounds like a 2nd rate pedestrian in comparison.

I’ll say it again because I’m sure people are just going to skim through it…A holy warrior SPECIALIZING in hunting the Dragons and their minions. The other classes don’t have SPECIALIZATIONS named things like that because the other classes aren’t SPECIALIZING in hunting and killing the Dragons and their minions from a lore standpoint. The “Holy Warriors” e.g. Guardians are. There’s a difference between fighting and killing something out of necessity, and actively wanting to. .

So where is my 10% damage buff when fighting dragons?
Where in our skills or traits do we get an advantage over every other profession in fighting dragons?
That is the ONLY way the name “Dragon Hunter” will work, if we are going to specialise in hunting down and killing these dragons then lore wise and gameplay wise we need a distinct advantage over every other profession.

Try reading my post again then get back to me. I’ve already answered everything you’ve just typed out there. Thanks for showing you’re either trying to selectively use things to further your own opinion/agenda or you don’t care enough to read somebody’s entire post. If it’s the latter then you’ve completely discredited yourself and I’ll refrain from even acknowledging yours in the future.

Why should my pve/spvp Guardian be forced to “specialize” into some spec named after a PVE threat?

And again, no- nothing about the new spec makes the guardian feel like it is “specialized in killing dragons” other than the name. That’s in. The skills all reference hunting prey, not dragons.

Dragon hunter is not this game’s version of Witch-hunter and here’s why:

Witch-hunters are subtle, sly and solo hunters that seek to ferret out witches hidden among seemingly innocent populations. Witches look human and act human and are generally unlimited in number. Witch-hunters are also often portrayed as religious zealouts, acting to protect an ideology and not civilians.

Dragonhunters will never have a way to fit this trope within the Guild Wars setting. For starters, being a solo hunter is directly opposite of the backline support play style this new class has. As for he world itself, dragons are limited in number and there is no real need to “discover them.” Their minions are obvious and not mingling around as civilians. (They’re large remember? That’s why dragon hunters are "big prey hunters lol.) Finally, there’s no religious zealotry.

PS: Here is what a big game hunter is: https://www.flickr.com/photos/billthepony/2884372000/

Is that what we want Dragonhunter to be?

Alice.5360:

Dragon hunter is not this game’s version of Witch-hunter and here’s why:

Witch-hunters are subtle, sly and solo hunters that seek to ferret out witches hidden among seemingly innocent populations. Witches look human and act human and are generally unlimited in number. Witch-hunters are also often portrayed as religious zealouts, acting to protect an ideology and not civilians.

Dragonhunters will never have a way to fit this trope within the Guild Wars setting. For starters, being a solo hunter is directly opposite of the backline support play style this new class has. As for he world itself, dragons are limited in number and there is no real need to “discover them.” Their minions are obvious and not mingling around as civilians. (They’re large remember? That’s why dragon hunters are "big prey hunters lol.) Finally, there’s no religious zealotry.

PS: Here is what a big game hunter is: https://www.flickr.com/photos/billthepony/2884372000/

Is that what we want Dragonhunter to be?

Big Game Hunter is exactly what they are portraying Dragonhunter as being. Just not as comical as the picture you posted. At this point, the name is being blown way out of proportion.

Do you have another name that better fits the Big Game Hunter rendition?

If the real world had dragons, big-game Dragonhunters would look more like Guardians then they would the typical British Big Game Hunter in that picture.

Somehow I feel as though there would have been much fewer complaints if Dragonhunter was that name for the Engineering specialization, because of that imagery, and history associated with it.

Srolo.5208:

Arnath.2319:

Srolo.5208:

Harvest.2506:

Srolo.5208:

Snip.

I said I would rather have Witch Hunter if they want to go that route with Hunter, someone on the HOT post is suggesting DivineHunter now which is something I would also be alright with.

What childish Mindset are you talking about? If you are using other games as a comparision those with dragon in their class names are related in some way to dragons. We know its a unified force of multi talented people fighting the dragons, and their spawn. But there is no clear rivalry that designates a guardian with longbow as the clear hunter of dragons that is better at it than the over classes.

It actually Cheapens the value to say this Guardian is specializing as a Dragon Hunter, when you have a clear Chronomancer, Druid, and Tempest. Now you’ve probably never studied language or history to my extent, but you shouldn’t need to in order to see that calling this Dragonhunter sounds like a 2nd rate pedestrian in comparison.

I’ll say it again because I’m sure people are just going to skim through it…A holy warrior SPECIALIZING in hunting the Dragons and their minions. The other classes don’t have SPECIALIZATIONS named things like that because the other classes aren’t SPECIALIZING in hunting and killing the Dragons and their minions from a lore standpoint. The “Holy Warriors” e.g. Guardians are. There’s a difference between fighting and killing something out of necessity, and actively wanting to. .

So where is my 10% damage buff when fighting dragons?
Where in our skills or traits do we get an advantage over every other profession in fighting dragons?
That is the ONLY way the name “Dragon Hunter” will work, if we are going to specialise in hunting down and killing these dragons then lore wise and gameplay wise we need a distinct advantage over every other profession.

Try reading my post again then get back to me. I’ve already answered everything you’ve just typed out there. Thanks for showing you’re either trying to selectively use things to further your own opinion/agenda or you don’t care enough to read somebody’s entire post. If it’s the latter then you’ve completely discredited yourself and I’ll refrain from even acknowledging yours in the future.

I did read your post, i assume your referring to your last paragraph in particular where you have successfully proven why Dragon Hunter is such a terrible name:

“yes every class is able to fight just as effectively because if they couldn’t then there wouldn’t really be a game now would there be?”

Lore and Gameplay are intertwined, you can’t have one without the other. Lore wise it is extremely flimsy logic, but when also applied to gameplay it is completely broken and illogical.

JonPeters.5630:

A couple notes on Dragonhunter. We went with this name because we felt it was evocative of the medieval witch hunters. Guardians consider themselves protectors of the innocent. Followers of their faith be it in honor, valor, etc. The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions. I understand this is a lot more high concept than Mesmer but at the end of the day we felt like we wanted to try and push a more mature theme here. I hope this helps explain our thinking. We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept. This one falls more in the third category.

Thanks,

Jon

It was a pretty great Ready Up, and follow/support your choice of the Dragonhunter. Thanks for the further explanation and communication as HoT is being revealed.

Keep up the good work! now howabout them Druids

Ok so on my thief i’ve guarded literally thousands of towns against invading monsters and guarded a little girl through a tunnel of molten lava. Why then do they only call guardians “guardians”? Because its a game thats why. It loosely fits with their general theme so thats what they’re called. Now everyone kills dragons right? Well guess what, now there’s a class that is generally themed towards being a type of specialized dragon slayer. He’s no better at killing dragons than a thief is at guarding villagers but thats his theme so thats what he’s called. Jeez man. I mean, are any of the class names the least bit special anyways? We’ve got thieves and engineers and warriors. Why are we only just now calling out the generic-ness of these class name?

Near.7439:

Ok so on my thief i’ve guarded literally thousands of towns against invading monsters and guarded a little girl through a tunnel of molten lava. Why then do they only call guardians “guardians”? Because its a game thats why. It loosely fits with their general theme so thats what they’re called. Now everyone kills dragons right? Well guess what, now there’s a class that is generally themed towards being a type of specialized dragon slayer. He’s no better at killing dragons than a thief is at guarding villagers but thats his theme so thats what he’s called. Jeez man. I mean, are any of the class names the least bit special anyways? We’ve got thieves and engineers and warriors. Why are we only just now calling out the generic-ness of these class name?

So tell me, How well does your theif guard in pve? aside from the shadow refuge, and smoke blast combo, you would do to hide your npc, or the boon in poision you give to them?

In Spvp i would like to see your theif hold a point over a minute in 1v1 or over 30 seconds 2v1, in Wvw I’d like to see how you would mass support the zerg.

Fact is what you do 90% of the time are defined playstyles with some support if you spec for it, but you are still primary a roamer.

In the case for Dragon Hunter the name mismatches its supporting role, and then tied it to a specific group of enemies, when it should be fighting, everything everyone else is fighting in the game like Other players, krait, inquest, etc.

Wait what? Whats your definition of guard? Pretty sure Im “guarding” them by keeping them from harm. The faster I kill something in PvE the more “guarded” my party is. Now im wondering why my thief isnt called a guardan, kinda messed up. Guess if my thief isnt going to be called a guardian we may as well let the dragonhunter have its name huh?

Just voicing in that I am very excited about the name and the concept.

Saiyan.1704:

Alice.5360:

Dragon hunter is not this game’s version of Witch-hunter and here’s why:

Witch-hunters are subtle, sly and solo hunters that seek to ferret out witches hidden among seemingly innocent populations. Witches look human and act human and are generally unlimited in number. Witch-hunters are also often portrayed as religious zealouts, acting to protect an ideology and not civilians.

Dragonhunters will never have a way to fit this trope within the Guild Wars setting. For starters, being a solo hunter is directly opposite of the backline support play style this new class has. As for he world itself, dragons are limited in number and there is no real need to “discover them.” Their minions are obvious and not mingling around as civilians. (They’re large remember? That’s why dragon hunters are "big prey hunters lol.) Finally, there’s no religious zealotry.

PS: Here is what a big game hunter is: https://www.flickr.com/photos/billthepony/2884372000/

Is that what we want Dragonhunter to be?

Big Game Hunter is exactly what they are portraying Dragonhunter as being. Just not as comical as the picture you posted. At this point, the name is being blown way out of proportion.

Do you have another name that better fits the Big Game Hunter rendition?

They’re trying to portray both a big game hunter AND a witch hunter in one go and it’s just not working. Witch hunter makes me think of Van Hellsing. Big Game Hunter makes me think of the villain from Disney’s Tarzan.

I think they need to scrap the entire “hunter” idea and go with something refined. I was behind arbiter but other names have popped up that fit the ticket. Arclight/Archlight was a very strong contender that references the new found range. Other great names were Harbinger and Sentinel and Warder and Bastion and Stalwart and Valkyr and Seeker.

I posted this imagined rework of the Dragonhunter announcement to prove how easy a name change rectifies bows and traps with the guardian paradigm.

…

…

…

Meet the Arbiter: Guardian’s Elite Specialization

Welcome, friends. I’m Alice, and today we’ll be talking about the guardian’s new elite specialization: the arbiter—a virtuous defender that specializes in ranged combat and back-line support.

Staying true to the base class, these wielders of light have mobilized in the war against the dragons, ready to bring justice to their foes and solace to their allies! With an emphasis on range and mobility, we feel the arbiter brings a style of play previously lacking from the guardian.

…

thisstuffaboutvirtuesandbowswasfine

…

Supremacy through Insight

Favor in battle can often be determined by foresight and preparation, and arbiters will be able to manifest light-based magical traps that will activate when an enemy runs over them. By carefully setting the stage with a variety of new traps, the arbiter can direct the flow of battle from a distance. Judgment is passed when foes advance over the traps, bringing devastating conditions to the unworthy. Tread carefully, enemies of Tyria…or face the verdict of the arbiter and their elite Glint’s Revelation.

Advancing Forward

Guardians will find that the new elite specialization gives them access to some conditions and functionality normally reserved for professions of a more physical nature. They’ll gain a bit of innate mobility, while the ability to cripple or bleed enemies will become an option through their elite specialization traits. One of their elite specialization traits is Rending Light, which will enable all varieties of traps to bleed enemies. Whether taking on the masses or a single enemy, the arbiter is a force to be reckoned with.

Sharpen your justice. Dust off your resolve. Brace your courage. Guardians—the arbiter approaches. See you on the battlefield.

I must be as relentless as justice itself.

Disclaimer: A name change, a skill name change, and a bit of rewording is all it takes to bring the new elite in line with current guardian expectations. I don’t care if they change the name to arbiter. All I want is a name change that puts the “guardian” back in the guardian’s elite specialization. Replace arbiter with Harbinger or Warder or any of the others and change the bit about judgment to fit the name-flavour to get an idea for how those names would sound.

only 5k hours of playing time on guardians should one be able to voice change

Near.7439:

Wait what? Whats your definition of guard? Pretty sure Im “guarding” them by keeping them from harm. The faster I kill something in PvE the more “guarded” my party is. Now im wondering why my thief isnt called a guardan, kinda messed up. Guess if my thief isnt going to be called a guardian we may as well let the dragonhunter have its name huh?

My definition as I’ve written is in the direct actions the class takes in doing something. You think I don’t feel that way too when I go pve on my theif? I know the faster the kill something or cc it that it contributes to the protection of my vip. But i’m doing it via Lockdown, or DPS spike, instead of Warding with blocks , and healing on the guardian so I can take my sweet time. That’s the difference.

Near.7439:

Ok so on my thief i’ve guarded literally thousands of towns against invading monsters and guarded a little girl through a tunnel of molten lava. Why then do they only call guardians “guardians”? Because its a game thats why. It loosely fits with their general theme so thats what they’re called. Now everyone kills dragons right? Well guess what, now there’s a class that is generally themed towards being a type of specialized dragon slayer. He’s no better at killing dragons than a thief is at guarding villagers but thats his theme so thats what he’s called. Jeez man. I mean, are any of the class names the least bit special anyways? We’ve got thieves and engineers and warriors. Why are we only just now calling out the generic-ness of these class name?

No no no. You’re not understanding.

The theme of the Dragonhunter is related to the concept of the Witch-hunter, those who weed out evil hiding amongst the people and to protect the ideals and doctrine of their religion with unrelenting fervor.

The basis of their choice in name was to swap witch with dragon, basically making the dragons corruption the thing that’s evil and needs weeding out. That concept doesn’t work. Dragons are suppose to be forces of nature. Even if they are evil, there is no parallel between fighting heretics and defending your lives from apocalyptic disaster. Not only that but no hunting is necessary. The dragons and it’s minions are hardly hiding. This is a war that had no covert angles for a hunter to stalk.

Also, regarding big game, and hunting, the last thing being paralleled, witch hunts were more like trials or torture not literally picking people off with guns or bows. The only thing left is the big game thing. It makes no sense a Guardian would seek to do this. Purify corruption perhaps but that isn’t big game where you’re pulling down these targets because they’re big (ie their hides). All in all the connections are very loose and other options would be better.

Anet, I implore you to just make up a name that isn’t a word like the French Draconnier, and make the meaning and context for it you desire rather than attempt to go for a lofty conceptual name from existing words.

Leo G.4501:

The basis of their choice in name was to swap witch with dragon, basically making the dragons corruption the thing that’s evil and needs weeding out. That concept doesn’t work. Dragons are suppose to be forces of nature. Even if they are evil, there is no parallel between fighting heretics and defending your lives from apocalyptic disaster. Not only that but no hunting is necessary. The dragons and it’s minions are hardly hiding. This is a war that had no covert angles for a hunter to stalk.

Also, regarding big game, and hunting, the last thing being paralleled, witch hunts were more like trials or torture not literally picking people off with guns or bows. The only thing left is the big game thing. It makes no sense a Guardian would seek to do this. Purify corruption perhaps but that isn’t big game where you’re pulling down these targets because they’re big (ie their hides). All in all the connections are very loose and other options would be better.

Anet, I implore you to just make up a name that isn’t a word like the French Draconnier, and make the meaning and context for it you desire rather than attempt to go for a lofty conceptual name from existing words.

Hehehehe, “lofty conceptual name.” When that phrase is applied to “dragonhunter” it feels like such a sarcastic dig. I love it.

So very hipster of them to pretend “dragonhunter” is anything other than a desperate attempt at a poorly executed theme.

AND YES: right there with you. Dragons aren’t innately ‘evil’ and the “varying shades of morality” is one of the things that made the GW universe so awesome. Dragons are /destructive/ to the world, sure, but as evident by Glint, calling all dragons “evil demons” is ridiculous. And look at the Pale Tree! Should dragon hunters train their hunting scopes on her, too? She’s dragon-adjacent so let’s purge her I guess…. /s

No no no. You’re not understanding.
The theme of the Dragonhunter is related to the concept of the Witch-hunter, those who weed out evil hiding amongst the people and to protect the ideals and doctrine of their religion with unrelenting fervor.
The basis of their choice in name was to swap witch with dragon, basically making the dragons corruption the thing that’s evil and needs weeding out. That concept doesn’t work. Dragons are suppose to be forces of nature. Even if they are evil, there is no parallel between fighting heretics and defending your lives from apocalyptic disaster. Not only that but no hunting is necessary. The dragons and it’s minions are hardly hiding. This is a war that had no covert angles for a hunter to stalk.
Also, regarding big game, and hunting, the last thing being paralleled, witch hunts were more like trials or torture not literally picking people off with guns or bows. The only thing left is the big game thing. It makes no sense a Guardian would seek to do this. Purify corruption perhaps but that isn’t big game where you’re pulling down these targets because they’re big (ie their hides). All in all the connections are very loose and other options would be better.
Anet, I implore you to just make up a name that isn’t a word like the French Draconnier, and make the meaning and context for it you desire rather than attempt to go for a lofty conceptual name from existing words.

yes yes yes, i understand that the dragon hunter hunts dragons and that all the names of all the classes are either generic as hell or random mystical sounding words. its all stupid, nonsensical, and immature, but thats why i play games. I can’t believe how much you people care. I feel like this whole dragonhunter thing just got blown way out of proportion and now people are just having fun with the complaining. I guess it is entertaining for forum dwellers.

DragonHunter is beginning to grow on me, however I feel like DragonKnight might be a better name.

Near.7439:

yes yes yes, i understand that the dragon hunter hunts dragons and that all the names of all the classes are either generic as hell or random mystical sounding words. its all stupid, nonsensical, and immature, but thats why i play games. I can’t believe how much you people care. I feel like this whole dragonhunter thing just got blown way out of proportion and now people are just having fun with the complaining. I guess it is entertaining for forum dwellers.

Then No, you don’t get it or how it’s suppose to have a secondary angle of moral justice.

Make no mistakes, I’m not adamant about the name being changed because I’m immature or blowing things out of proportion. It’s simply an easy thing to improve at a phase in the game that is incomplete. It will be something that we all will have to live with one it goes live and it’s not sounding like something that will carry a pleasant nostalgic flare 8+ years from now.

I feel like there is a big difference between offering feedback to the development team and outright insulting them while you are still spending time eating up the content that they generated.

A whole lot of option B is going down and it completely dismisses their work.

I am not referring to you Leo G.

Lol look what I found, was anyone or ArenaNet aware of this at all?!

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Dragon_Hunter

The term Dragon hunter was first used in Gw1 Factions. Just an interesting side note

JonPeters.5630:

A couple notes on Dragonhunter. We went with this name because we felt it was evocative of the medieval witch hunters. Guardians consider themselves protectors of the innocent. Followers of their faith be it in honor, valor, etc. The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions. I understand this is a lot more high concept than Mesmer but at the end of the day we felt like we wanted to try and push a more mature theme here. I hope this helps explain our thinking. We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept. This one falls more in the third category.

Thanks,

Jon

I hope this higher concept comes to fruition when the expansion releases because currently, for me personally, it’s falling under generic fantasy. I can count on both of my hands in a minute the MMO’s and RPG’s that dwell around a ‘Dragon Knight’, ‘Dragon Priest’, ‘Dragon Hunter’, ‘Dragonborne’ concept – as of right now it comes off as a trope but i hope it will make sense once the expansion comes out and hopefully justifies the name crosses fingers.

Tzozef.9841:

Lol look what I found, was anyone or ArenaNet aware of this at all?!

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Dragon_Hunter

The term Dragon hunter was first used in Gw1 Factions. Just an interesting side note

Well there you have it. We can’t have this name now that its associated with a quest, item, or existing trait in the universe, by their premise. Coupled with the supporting doctine its now too generic as anyone can be a dragon hunter. Satire is like wine to truth not poured into any cup of hypocrisy Saulot.

What we got was a video and a blog post introducing the Dragonhunter as if it was the new Turok: Dinosaur Hunter profession… a big-game hunter specialization that hunts dragons (dinosaurs) People reacted appropriately (shocked). People thought it was disjointed, out of place, and pretty childish.

What was intended was to subtly (two words) push a mature concept (a religious order pursuing a genocide) by evoking a fantasy archetype (witch-hunter) inspired by real-life people who for centuries imprisoned, tortured, hanged, forced into false confessions, dunked, drowned, and burned innocent people while confiscating their land, property, etc. (jerks).

Maybe these profession reveals should have at least as much flavor text as a magic the gathering card. “I must be as relentless as justice itself.” apparently didn’t get the message across.

Saulot.7259:

I feel like there is a big difference between offering feedback to the development team and outright insulting them while you are still spending time eating up the content that they generated.

A whole lot of option B is going down and it completely dismisses their work.

I am not referring to you Leo G.

What does “eating up their content” have to do with anything? We are giving feedback and not attacking the devs personally. We don’t have to take everything they give us joyfully though. It is their job, afterall, to make content that is consumed and enjoyed, not just accepted with disdain. You understand this is their job, right? It’s not like we’re criticizing free work done by a street artist for our amusement.

Saulot.7259:

I feel like there is a big difference between offering feedback to the development team and outright insulting them while you are still spending time eating up the content that they generated.

A whole lot of option B is going down and it completely dismisses their work.

I am not referring to you Leo G.

Ah, will thanks

Like my uncle Norn always said: You attract more. . . Dragons. . . With Dragonhunters…? Or something like that.

Slyfer.6478:

JonPeters.5630:

A couple notes on Dragonhunter. We went with this name because we felt it was evocative of the medieval witch hunters. Guardians consider themselves protectors of the innocent. Followers of their faith be it in honor, valor, etc. The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions. I understand this is a lot more high concept than Mesmer but at the end of the day we felt like we wanted to try and push a more mature theme here. I hope this helps explain our thinking. We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept. This one falls more in the third category.

Thanks,

Jon

I hope this higher concept comes to fruition when the expansion releases because currently, for me personally, it’s falling under generic fantasy. I can count on both of my hands in a minute the MMO’s and RPG’s that dwell around a ‘Dragon Knight’, ‘Dragon Priest’, ‘Dragon Hunter’, ‘Dragonborne’ concept – as of right now it comes off as a trope but i hope it will make sense once the expansion comes out and hopefully justifies the name crosses fingers.

For me it’s falling under “lazy fantasy.” :P

Thanks for posting, Jon. Appreciate the discussion.

My biggest issue with the name is that it implies you are the most and mostly effective against one thing (dragons). Well, what if I’m fighting cows? Or quaggan? Or I’m in SPvP fighting other players? Do I lose some effectiveness? Are other classes not just as capable of fighting dragons as a dragonhunter? Will the dragonhunter have a DPS buff against dragons and dragon minions?

It’s just so specifically tied to just one aspect of the PVE story and to what the class is intended to ‘kill’.

Chronomancer = what mesmers ARE (time controllers, works in any situation)
Druid = what rangers ARE (nature healing shaman types, works in any situation)
Tempest = ? (seems to be what they ARE – weathery storm themed casters)
Dragonhunter = who guardians FIGHT (only works in dragon theme situations)

Anyway… There have been a million brilliant suggestions for creative, lore-appropriate, themeatically nuanced name changes. Honestly just take out the dragon part. Coupla renames and some new bow/gauntlet skins and you’re in business. I would seriously pay your artists myself.

JNetRocks.3652:

Thanks for posting, Jon. Appreciate the discussion.

My biggest issue with the name is that it implies you are the most and mostly effective against one thing (dragons). Well, what if I’m fighting cows? Or quaggan? Or I’m in SPvP fighting other players? Do I lose some effectiveness? Are other classes not just as capable of fighting dragons as a dragonhunter? Will the dragonhunter have a DPS buff against dragons and dragon minions?

It’s just so specifically tied to just one aspect of the PVE story and to what the class is intended to ‘kill’.

Chronomancer = what mesmers ARE (time controllers, works in any situation)
Druid = what rangers ARE (nature healing shaman types, works in any situation)
Tempest = ? (seems to be what they ARE – weathery storm themed casters)
Dragonhunter = who guardians FIGHT (only works in dragon theme situations)

Anyway… There have been a million brilliant suggestions for creative, lore-appropriate, themeatically nuanced name changes. Honestly just take out the dragon part. Coupla renames and some new bow/gauntlet skins and you’re in business. I would seriously pay your artists myself.

They can use the gloves and bow as a reward for the next dragonbash/festival. At the risk of sounding mean, these class “skins” are not even cool- the Dragon’s Jade bow was a dragon bow done right. Chronomancer got kitten shoulders (easier to fit unique shoulders into an armor set) and a clockshield. Druids get an imposing tree looking staff! Dragonhunters get gloves that don’t match anything and a meh bow that looks better on hunters or warriors.

Alice.5360:

Saulot.7259:

I feel like there is a big difference between offering feedback to the development team and outright insulting them while you are still spending time eating up the content that they generated.

A whole lot of option B is going down and it completely dismisses their work.

I am not referring to you Leo G.

What does “eating up their content” have to do with anything? We are giving feedback and not attacking the devs personally. We don’t have to take everything they give us joyfully though. It is their job, afterall, to make content that is consumed and enjoyed, not just accepted with disdain. You understand this is their job, right? It’s not like we’re criticizing free work done by a street artist for our amusement.

Whoosh.

Saulot.7259:

Alice.5360:

Saulot.7259:

I feel like there is a big difference between offering feedback to the development team and outright insulting them while you are still spending time eating up the content that they generated.

A whole lot of option B is going down and it completely dismisses their work.

I am not referring to you Leo G.

What does “eating up their content” have to do with anything? We are giving feedback and not attacking the devs personally. We don’t have to take everything they give us joyfully though. It is their job, afterall, to make content that is consumed and enjoyed, not just accepted with disdain. You understand this is their job, right? It’s not like we’re criticizing free work done by a street artist for our amusement.

Whoosh.

Nothing “wooshed”. You just didn’t have a very good point. :P Pointing out reasons (lore, aesthetic, archetype mismatch, etc.) we don’t like the name IS feedback, even if you want to pretend it’s useless criticism. We aren’t just sitting around saying “we hate it it sucks change it.” We’re offering explanations of why it’s a bad fit for the class and offering many alternatives.

Alice.5360:

Saulot.7259:

Alice.5360:

Saulot.7259:

I feel like there is a big difference between offering feedback to the development team and outright insulting them while you are still spending time eating up the content that they generated.

A whole lot of option B is going down and it completely dismisses their work.

I am not referring to you Leo G.

What does “eating up their content” have to do with anything? We are giving feedback and not attacking the devs personally. We don’t have to take everything they give us joyfully though. It is their job, afterall, to make content that is consumed and enjoyed, not just accepted with disdain. You understand this is their job, right? It’s not like we’re criticizing free work done by a street artist for our amusement.

Whoosh.

Nothing “wooshed”. You just didn’t have a very good point. :P Pointing out reasons (lore, aesthetic, archetype mismatch, etc.) we don’t like the name IS feedback, even if you want to pretend it’s useless criticism. We aren’t just sitting around saying “we hate it it sucks change it.” We’re offering explanations of why it’s a bad fit for the class and offering many alternatives.

….Yes whoosh. I said “I feelI feel like there is a big difference between offering feedback to the development team and outright insulting them” as in several of the posts on this and other threads there were many references to laziness, unoriginal or stupid which are not constructive and tiresome to read. Making statements for why you do not like the name make perfect sense.

Maybe I made a mistake by calling out one person, his post was just the bottom one and I was agreeing with his statement of how/why he was bringing up his concerns.

So please take a breath and continue using this thread for it’s purpose instead of looking for a fight with someone who is agreeing with you.

Saulot.7259:

….Yes whoosh. I said “I feelI feel like there is a big difference between offering feedback to the development team and outright insulting them” as in several of the posts on this and other threads there were many references to laziness, unoriginal or stupid which are not constructive and tiresome to read. Making statements for why you do not like the name make perfect sense.

Maybe I made a mistake by calling out one person, his post was just the bottom one and I was agreeing with his statement of how/why he was bringing up his concerns.

So please take a breath and continue using this thread for it’s purpose instead of looking for a fight with someone who is agreeing with you.

Sorry, I reacted very poorly.

Saulot, please provide a more relivant understanding of your position, rather than a critique of the critique. So far you’ve just deployed a standard deflection of a supposed figuritive witchunt. Alice has done nothing to warrant an apology to you.

After reading that “witch hunter” explanation, if you absolutely HAVE to have “Dragon” in the name, I wonder why you didn’t go with “Dragon Persecutor,” “Dragon Oppressor,” “Dragon Purger,” or “Dragon Crusader.”

ronpierce.2760:

http://strawpoll.me/4303143/r

This is the poll on it. Has a pretty significant amount of voters (Over 3000, and was shared on several social media sites), and yes, over 50% is negative, with a portion neutral and the “highly positive” is very very low.

Nice, that there was an actual poll about it. However, how was the sample controlled? Did you account for the effect, that especially in such a case the outraged population is more likely to vote?

Also the question is not clear. “Your thoughts on “Dragonhunter”?", doesn’t really say, if it’s about the name, the theme or the skills or a combination of it.

However, I at least admit the possibility that a big part, if not necessarily the majority really does not like the name (and don’t try to straw man this sentence back to me, I did not say that no majority in the poll dislikes Dragonhunter).

My main character is a guardian and I’m very disappointed they named it Dragonhunter. I played many RPGs and I don’t remember any class named ‘whateverHunter’ to be heavy armored. The name doesn’t fit neither the class nor GW lore. It sounds like achievement title.

If you would asked players earlier what class could be Chronomancer, Druid or Tempest I think that 95% would assign them correctly, but Dragonhunter???
For me it will be just specialization S1. If they will add another silly name for other guardian specialization than it will be S2…