Guild Wars 2

Oh come off it, DH is obviously a bad name for the spec, it forces a motivation on the player, and it follows no theme the core class had, unlike the other 3. DH is the anomaly.

^
The mere fact that this name (and specialization) needs so much justification shows how bad it is.

Ghotistyx.6942:

What do you do for work Farzo? Whatever it is, I hope you’ve found someone else to do anything that your work isn’t, because obviously you can only work on what your title is.

It’s funny because I’m not working at the moment.

So my title is Jobless.

Someone can gladly do that for me if they want to.

I liked what I saw for the new skills, weapon, and virtue changes.

But the name “Dragonhunter” just doesn’t at all fit the heart of what a Guardian is. And if its supposed to be a high concept name, that almost seems like a joke.

humm dragonhunter… do we tame dragons as pets o.O?… Do we fly a dragon with a 600 range as gap closer?… If all classes killed a dragon does that mean they are also dragonhunters??

O.o?

For sure they will change the name ^^, hope so…

Aeolus.3615:

humm dragonhunter… do we tame dragons as pets o.O?… Do we fly a dragon with a 600 range as gap closer?… If all classes killed a dragon does that mean they are also dragonhunters??

O.o?

For sure they will change the name ^^, hope so…

Think it is too late for a name change, they wouldn’t change all of the marketing and in game references to Dragonhunter that easily. I would rather for Heart of Thorns to come out and not be delayed due to a name change.

reapex.8546:

Think it is too late for a name change, they wouldn’t change all of the marketing and in game references to Dragonhunter that easily. I would rather for Heart of Thorns to come out and not be delayed due to a name change.

How many times does one’s profession get mentioned in game? Most instances of a profession name is generally the now useless trainers who stand around capital cities with [X Trainer] above their heads.

reapex.8546:

Aeolus.3615:

humm dragonhunter… do we tame dragons as pets o.O?… Do we fly a dragon with a 600 range as gap closer?… If all classes killed a dragon does that mean they are also dragonhunters??

O.o?

For sure they will change the name ^^, hope so…

Think it is too late for a name change, they wouldn’t change all of the marketing and in game references to Dragonhunter that easily. I would rather for Heart of Thorns to come out and not be delayed due to a name change.

Marketing ? I can’t really see what kind of marketing there can be behind a spec name…

Delay the expansion for a name change ? How ridiculous is that :p
I’m not trying to make fun of you. But do you realize that only balancing that can already represent a LOT of work, and it is clearly not done so they will keep working on it for a while. This will clearly last longer than changing a name, which wouldn’t represent more than a day of work once they made the final decision in my opinion.

By the way, profession names never appear anywhere in the story. So spec names, which are facultative because you can choose not to equip them, will probably never be refered anywhere.
Then why is it so important ? Well, it is for some people. It is for A.Net also, otherwise they wouldn’t bother giving names. Important enough to matter, but if it’s not very present in game then it will be easy to change.

Wow what a thread!

It’s been very interesting to see every bodies thoughts with regard to the “Dragronhunters”. I can see how the Protector’s & the Virtuous are at odds with Dragonhunter as this sepcialization does not enhance or expand this profession that was a guardian, a protector & a supporter.

But for me like others I was surprised with the name & reveal, but after reading & watching each of the little bits of information “Dragonhunter” really started to grow on me and I’m really enjoying theorycrafting each of the components the Dragonhunter brings to Guardian’s and how the core profession & this elite could interact.

For me the Dragonhunter is in the theme of the Zealous, the Smiter, the Fanatic end of the Guardian theme and this works (at least for me & some others). For other they’re really not liking it and this bring for me the question about “Only Releasing One Elite Specialization Per Profession”

Would we all be this up in arms over the Dragonhunter’s theme & name if a 2nd Guardian elite spec was also released but along the Protector, this Guardian of Righteousness theme.

And with this I’m not so sure. Lastly for some of the names & theme ideas players have put forward I would look & be very excited for these to be future Elite Specialization.

Fashion Mage.3712:

^
The mere fact that this name (and specialization) needs so much justification shows how bad it is.

+1

Ojyh.9842:

reapex.8546:

Aeolus.3615:

humm dragonhunter… do we tame dragons as pets o.O?… Do we fly a dragon with a 600 range as gap closer?… If all classes killed a dragon does that mean they are also dragonhunters??

O.o?

For sure they will change the name ^^, hope so…

Think it is too late for a name change, they wouldn’t change all of the marketing and in game references to Dragonhunter that easily. I would rather for Heart of Thorns to come out and not be delayed due to a name change.

Marketing ? I can’t really see what kind of marketing there can be behind a spec name…

Delay the expansion for a name change ? How ridiculous is that :p
I’m not trying to make fun of you. But do you realize that only balancing that can already represent a LOT of work, and it is clearly not done so they will keep working on it for a while. This will clearly last longer than changing a name, which wouldn’t represent more than a day of work once they made the final decision in my opinion.

By the way, profession names never appear anywhere in the story. So spec names, which are facultative because you can choose not to equip them, will probably never be refered anywhere.
Then why is it so important ? Well, it is for some people. It is for A.Net also, otherwise they wouldn’t bother giving names. Important enough to matter, but if it’s not very present in game then it will be easy to change.

1) “Marketing ? I can’t really see what kind of marketing there can be behind a spec name…” There have been several game magazines, youtube videos, blog post, and more all covering The Dragonhunter. That is spreading press and news about the class, this is marking to others.
2) "Delay the expansion for a name change ? How ridiculous is that :p " I agree, its high ridiculous that is why Anet more than likely won’t change it. It isn’t worth changing a name and going through the localization all over again.
3) "By the way, profession names never appear anywhere in the story. " You haven’t played all of HoT Story missions to know this.

Fashion Mage.3712:

^
The mere fact that this name (and specialization) needs so much justification shows how bad it is.

Just because some vocal people make a stink about something, doesn’t mean its actually a problem. Just because your group is loudest doesn’t make it correct.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Fashion Mage.3712:

^
The mere fact that this name (and specialization) needs so much justification shows how bad it is.

Just because some vocal people make a stink about something, doesn’t mean its actually a problem. Just because your group is loudest doesn’t make it correct.

I love this type of arguments. Let me use it against you: Just because you think this is not a problem it doesn’t mean it isn’t.

Templar.3418:

Fashion Mage.3712:

^
The mere fact that this name (and specialization) needs so much justification shows how bad it is.

+1

Actually, I bet EVERY profession elite special has such a justification. It’s just that we don’t see them. The fact that Jon came and explained this is NOT an indicator of how bad the name is.

Obtena.7952:

Templar.3418:

Fashion Mage.3712:

^
The mere fact that this name (and specialization) needs so much justification shows how bad it is.

+1

Actually, I bet EVERY profession elite special has such a justification. It’s just that we don’t see them. The fact that Jon came and explained this is NOT an indicator of how bad the name is.

Maybe they do, but either way people understood and liked the names given to reapers and chronomancers with no need for some bad attempt at justification.

That still doesn’t make it a bad name. I get people don’t like the name, but they can be much smarter about the way they complain about it. The name is not bad because we were given an explanation. That’s just dumb. IF people want Anet to take this name business seriously, then don’t waste time with “bad name because <explanation>”

Obtena.7952:

Actually, I bet EVERY profession elite special has such a justification. It’s just that we don’t see them. The fact that Jon came and explained this is NOT an indicator of how bad the name is.

You don’t get it.
Of course every spec probably has some kind of justification behind it. But every spec name we know speaks for itself, the Dragonhunter doesn’t. If they have to make a specific intervention to explain the name it means that many people felt there was something incoherent in that name.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Just because some vocal people make a stink about something, doesn’t mean its actually a problem. Just because your group is loudest doesn’t make it correct.

How can you know it is just “some vocal people” ?
This thread is pretty big already, but the one on the expansion sub-forum has almost 1500 replies !
You can also see in every video, every article that speaks about Dragonhunter, and also on reddit that a lot of people want this name to be changed.
I believe you don’t really know what you’re talking about.

reapex.8546:

1) “Marketing ? I can’t really see what kind of marketing there can be behind a spec name…” There have been several game magazines, youtube videos, blog post, and more all covering The Dragonhunter. That is spreading press and news about the class, this is marking to others.
2) "Delay the expansion for a name change ? How ridiculous is that :p " I agree, its high ridiculous that is why Anet more than likely won’t change it. It isn’t worth changing a name and going through the localization all over again.
3) "By the way, profession names never appear anywhere in the story. " You haven’t played all of HoT Story missions to know this.

1) How is that even important ?
All those people who are relaying information are happy as long as they have something to talk about. It gives them more clicks and views anyway.
While on this subject, if you take time to read some articles or watch some videos you will realize that most them are unenthused by the Dragonhunter name (some more than others)
Also it’s not uncommon to see changes during game development, even for something that has already been announced.
2) You didn’t get it…
I meant that it is ridiculous to think a name change could delay the release of the expansion. It’s not that much to do.
Localization is made by profesionnals. If you give them a word, they can find instantly what will be the best translation depending on the context. Since there aren’t many words to change… (another proof that the theme hasn’t been very well thought)
3) But I played everything since then. I can’t see any reason for them to emphasiss the presence of profession names in the game, and even less for the spec names. At least for the player characters.
Then considering the NPCs… What would be the point ? It never happened anyway. Maybe ONE NPC will represent that spec, but he will be called by his name like every others, not by his profession/spec.

Obtena.7952:

That still doesn’t make it a bad name. I get people don’t like the name, but they can be much smarter about the way they complain about it. The name is not bad because we were given an explanation. That’s just dumb. IF people want Anet to take this name business seriously, then don’t waste time with “bad name because <explanation>”

I quote myself :
“Even when a name looks/sounds bad it is easier to accept it when we feel that it is a good thematic choice. This is something many people can’t find in the Dragonhunter. And there is no need to discuss it actually, that’s just how people feel about it and the feeling is important. This is something A.Net worked on a lot when they created their core professions, so why are they destroying this continuity of profession-feeling ?

We have to explain why we have that bad feeling. Because it’s useful to identify where the things went wrong. But we don’t need to explain it to argument or give any weight to what we say. It’s not about knowing who is objectively right or wrong. Nobody is. The simple fact that we don’t like it and we say it feels wrong should be enough to make the devs react.
That’s one of the reasons why giving a high concept aspect to the name with a specific background can’t work as a good argument, because it won’t change the feeling we have."

Ghotistyx.6942:

Fashion Mage.3712:

^
The mere fact that this name (and specialization) needs so much justification shows how bad it is.

Just because some vocal people make a stink about something, doesn’t mean its actually a problem. Just because your group is loudest doesn’t make it correct.

I’d like to think that 10 pages here and 30 pages in the HoT subforum indicates that it’s a problem. If it were your standard “vocal minority” there wouldn’t be nearly this much backlash.

Ojyh.9842:

We have to explain why we have that bad feeling.

Yes, and you don’t have a bad feeling because Jon gave an explanation of the DH theme. That is a stupid reason for thinking the name is bad. If you don’t put forth the effort to understand my point, don’t bother responding to me.

When a name even needs an explanation there is already something amiss. When it generates over 2k posts in a little over a week, it is a bad name.

If someone needs to explain something as simple a name as DragonHunter, it means people are obtuse to generate fuel for their fire ot justify their bad arguments for why the name is ‘bad’. As I already said, there is likely one of these justifications for every profession, so the fact that it was provided is simply a courtesy ot further people’s understanding. It’s not some massively revealing evidence of poor work or bad ideas. It’s actual an opportunity that people are wasting; the explanation was meant to engage in discussion and give people a chance to make smart comments about why they dislike the name, not ones like “OMG, explanation = bad name”.

I’m not debating if the name is good or not, but the reasons people are giving for why it’s bad are rather dumb.

Why do you think the reasons people are giving are dumb? What are you basing that on? So far you have not actually expressed your reasons for liking the name.
So I am not sure why you are posting in this thread, apart from just enjoying a bit of trolling. Which is fine, but not very productive to the points raised by the op.

Look up a few posts.

Nobody is saying “explanation = bad name”. They are saying that in addition to all the other points in this and in the other much bigger thread, the fact they even had to explain the name is already pointing to a problem.

I just wish we could get a dev response on this, is it even a possibility that the name/theme can be changed? Or are we all wasting our time giving this feedback?

A simple “we are considering changing the name/theme please continue providing feedback” or “we apologise but we are far to deep into development to change the name/theme it is permanent” would be greatly appreciated.

Arrk.4102:

Nobody is saying “explanation = bad name”. They are saying that in addition to all the other points in this and in the other much bigger thread, the fact they even had to explain the name is already pointing to a problem.

Yes, actually there are people that are saying that. That problem which is being pointed to because of the explanation isn’t one with the name itself. Put it this way, people though the name was a problem, explanation or not,. The explanation is an opportunity for people to understand why the name was chosen.

Arnath.2319:

I just wish we could get a dev response on this, is it even a possibility that the name/theme can be changed? Or are we all wasting our time giving this feedback?

A simple “we are considering changing the name/theme please continue providing feedback” or “we apologise but we are far to deep into development to change the name/theme it is permanent” would be greatly appreciated.

Yes, it would and the fact we haven’t seen that …

AikunFelcis.7258:

Ojyh.9842:

Black Box.9312:

40 pages of essentially the same names saying it is or is not a problem doesn’t really seal the deal for me. Even if every page was full of unique posts purely against the name, it would still constitute a very small minority of players, but as we know that’s not the case. We have the same people posting many, many times, and posting both for and against. I don’t think we can constitute forum activity as proof there’s a problem. I’ll leave it to the Devs to determine if its A) A problem and A problem worth caring about.

Like, what are you planning on doing if they don’t cave to your demands? Not play the game because of a name? or maybe you don’t like the DH aesthetics either. You still have 8 other professions to spend your time with. Are you not going to eat at a restaurant because they serve waffle fries? “Uhh… I don’t like the name waffle fries as they don’t really fit with the theme here, and uhh… waffles are a breakfast item, not something that you eat for lunch or dinner like fries normally are, so you really need to like, completely redesign the whole thing you’ve got going here. I suggest the name change to something more appropriate like square-hole flapjack fries”.

Arnath.2319:

I just wish we could get a dev response on this, is it even a possibility that the name/theme can be changed? Or are we all wasting our time giving this feedback?

A simple “we are considering changing the name/theme please continue providing feedback” or “we apologise but we are far to deep into development to change the name/theme it is permanent” would be greatly appreciated.

Anet asked for our comments (maybe). They did not ask for feedback. The name was never up for discussion. This has been explained before.

Are you trying to be funny and failing, or are you just an kitten
People had made many more arguments that are much more than “doesn’t match the theme”. There have even been a really nice analysis of it.

And considering that the Engineer forums had a thread that had way less posts and they were pretty much the same people speaking over 2 years and their problem was aesthetics of the class, and it is getting fixed, so I see no reason they wouldn’t fix this.

And this is not a Singleplayer game, this is a mmorpg, player feedback matters, because if it didn’t, well lol, what’s the point of making a mmo game.

Thankfully there are only the same three or four people who pop up in these dragonhunter threads to say that the name is not a problem and tell detractors they are vocal minority idiots. Clearly, these people represent the vacuous silent majority who supports the name.

Obtena.7952:

Ojyh.9842:

We have to explain why we have that bad feeling.

If you don’t put forth the effort to understand my point, don’t bother responding to me.

WAW !.. You know what ? That’s exactly what I should say to YOU.
I know what you mean, okay ? But I am trying to explain that you missed the point of our argument. But instead of trying to understand you stay focused on the fact that we don’t accept what you’re saying… Don’t worry we understand what you mean, we just disagree and we try to make you understand what WE are saying.

So first, we already responded to Jon’s explanations, and basically we were not satisfyed with them. I don’t think we need to do it again and again everytime someone new enters the discussion.

Secondly, I already told that every spec name speaks for itself. Not only the themes are clearly pointed out, but they make sense as expansions of the core profession and the names they have fit into the theme. Which, in our opinion, is not the case of the Dragonshunter.

Lastly, we never said that if there is an explanation it means the name is bad, that would be completely stupid ! But the fact they feel that Dragonhunter needs more justifications while the others didn’t indicates that they missed something in their spec’s theme and coherence, otherwise we would feel that the name fits just as well as the others do.

Ghotistyx.6942:

AikunFelcis.7258:

Ojyh.9842:

Black Box.9312:

40 pages of essentially the same names saying it is or is not a problem doesn’t really seal the deal for me. Even if every page was full of unique posts purely against the name, it would still constitute a very small minority of players, but as we know that’s not the case. We have the same people posting many, many times, and posting both for and against. I don’t think we can constitute forum activity as proof there’s a problem. I’ll leave it to the Devs to determine if its A) A problem and A problem worth caring about.

Like, what are you planning on doing if they don’t cave to your demands? Not play the game because of a name? or maybe you don’t like the DH aesthetics either. You still have 8 other professions to spend your time with. Are you not going to eat at a restaurant because they serve waffle fries? “Uhh… I don’t like the name waffle fries as they don’t really fit with the theme here, and uhh… waffles are a breakfast item, not something that you eat for lunch or dinner like fries normally are, so you really need to like, completely redesign the whole thing you’ve got going here. I suggest the name change to something more appropriate like square-hole flapjack fries”.

Well, if you bothered reading a bit more of those posts you would know that the name itself is not the only problem.
As if we couldn’t play the game anymore just because of that… (although it disgusts some players enough to not want to use the spec or play their Guardian, which is a bit overdone even for me…)
At least the devs will know what we like and what we don’t. That’s always useful for future specs. Speaking about future specs, they will probably become numerous at some point. But you can already see that it will be hard to have any well done dragon related spec or any well done hunter spec because of Dragonhunter that will overlap those concepts. If they do that for every spec they will quickly run out of possibilities and they will have to create even more twisted and inconsistent concepts.

Hey, sometimes people just like to sling insults around because they can’t develop a coherent argument. I try to use analogies so they can maybe understand a bit too.

Just because some people on the engineer forums complained doesn’t equate to a chance something will change. Anet has to determine it was a problem, and that it was a problem with caring about. Evidently both occurred, but it took some time and resources to accomplish, so it wasn’t some simple task. But hey, maybe in two years we’ll see a red post about the name.

Single player vs MMO has no bearing on the desirability of feedback. Like, if Anet stopped asking for feedback would GW2 turn into a single player game?

And considering the silent majority is silent, I don’t think we can claim if they support anything.

If the name wasn’t a big problem, why are we taking at length about the name, posting on a thread titled “yo, liked the presentation, but the name still don’t fit.”?

If the silent majority cared enough they would voice their opinion. They don’t and thus if the name was changed they would not be affected.

Arrk.4102:

If the silent majority cared enough they would voice their opinion. They don’t and thus if the name was changed they would not be affected.

Ah yes, apathy is the reason things are the way they are.

Have you considered the replacement name could be worse for the silent majority? They would certainly be affected by a name change, regardless of if they vocalize.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Ah yes, apathy is the reason things are the way they are.

Have you considered the replacement name could be worse for the silent majority? They would certainly be affected by a name change, regardless of if they vocalize.

Or they could support the name change.

If we only have their silence to go on, then the only people voicing opinions are those supporting the name and dissenters of the name. Regardless of the silent majority, it appears to me that the vocal dissenting party is larger than the vocal supporting party. Would you disagree?

I couldn’t say. I haven’t counted who’s on each side or to what degree. However, only using the vocal population is a poor sample in my opinion.

Ghotistyx.6942:

I couldn’t say. I haven’t counted who’s on each side or to what degree. However, only using the vocal population is a poor sample in my opinion.

Of course. But neither side should be pretending to speak for the silent majority. I can only speak for myself and those I know who have voiced opposition to the name.

Some people seem to like to say what is and isn’t in their arguments. I tend to speak in the realms of possibility, even if it means playing the devils advocate (this of not one of those times). Using phrases like “the majority of guardians” or implying such is just not kosher unless you can prove you have a majority support. (Not calling anyone out specifically, just commentating on a meta or conceptual level)

hummm it looks like it is quest related to meet a cult that call themselves the Dragonhunters, a dedicated guardian group that hunt dragons…. looks a bit imcomplete to me, maybe the have something hidden on the sleeve. >,>

i dont main guardian but seing as the mesmer = chronomancer, necro = reaper, ranger = druid all make sense w/o devs even trying to explain the name. guardian = dragon hunter? rofl i feel bad for guardians good set of skills tho.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

i dont main guardian but seing as the mesmer = chronomancer, necro = reaper, ranger = druid all make sense w/o devs even trying to explain the name. guardian = dragon hunter? rofl i feel bad for guardians good set of skills tho.

These are my exact thoughts. I like showed gameplay, but the name… ugh. Terrible.

I imagine it like this…

The Scene – 3 adventurers gather outside a cave in the Maguuma jungle. It is the hideout for a group of grawl that have been dragging off survivors from the crashed pact airships that have become stuck in the jungle canopy. They sacrifice these to their primitive gods and the adventurers are readying their weapons and will soon attack the cave and free any prisoners they find there.

A pact scout that has led them to the cave organises their plan of attack.

“Chronomancer, I think your ability to mess with time shall confuse the grawl and help us free the prisoners quickly”.

“Reaper, you are clearly a terrifying, scythe wielding warrior. You should be our main fighter against the grawl.

“Dragon-Hunter [long pause] what is it you do again?”

Ghotistyx.6942:

Arrk.4102:

If the silent majority cared enough they would voice their opinion. They don’t and thus if the name was changed they would not be affected.

Ah yes, apathy is the reason things are the way they are.

Have you considered the replacement name could be worse for the silent majority? They would certainly be affected by a name change, regardless of if they vocalize.

But, like you insist, it’s just a name. Surely they wouldn’t give up playing the spec just because of a name they don’t like, right?

P.S.: I’m flattered that my name is prominent enough for you to take notice. But three people is not enough to take an argument up to 40+ pages.

For what it’s worth, a guy in trade chat thought all the names were crappy except, “Dragonhunter they got a cool name.”

He was amazed when I told him there was two threads about wanting a name change, one of which being 27 (at the time.. now it’s 31 :P)

In spite my opinions about the name and whether it truly be a high concept or not, the majority of people don’t like it :p

I really hope we will get Dragonbrawler for Warriors. The complaints would blot out the sun.

Arrk.4102:

I really hope we will get Dragonbrawler for Warriors. The complaints would blot out the sun.

Me too. I also hope it’s magically themed, and gets Glyph utilities.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Arrk.4102:

I really hope we will get Dragonbrawler for Warriors. The complaints would blot out the sun.

Me too. I also hope it’s magically themed, and gets Glyph utilities.

Dragon-themed Glyphs.

Genesis.8572:

Thankfully there are only the same three or four people who pop up in these dragonhunter threads to say that the name is not a problem and tell detractors they are vocal minority idiots. Clearly, these people represent the vacuous silent majority who supports the name.

Yeah, pretty much. It’s very, very clear that the name was a bad choice. The thing they don’t pause to consider is that, whether it’s a “majority” of players or not, people who don’t post don’t post because they don’t care, not because they actually support the name.

Thing is, that’s not because they think the name is good, it’s simply because they don’t give a kitten, probably because they don’t care about thematics in general. Anet could have named the class turdburglar and they wouldn’t care. I know the type very well. That doesn’t mean it makes for a good class name.

At the end of the day, the fact that there are two huge threads about it where the vast majority of posters think the name is stupid speaks for itself. Jon’s attempt at justification were almost laughable. As someone else said – “this is not the first time Anet adds 1 and 2 and gets 12 when the rest of the world gets 3”. They have demonstrated a tendency to do this numerous times.

How can you prove they don’t care? Did you ask each of them?

What makes you think you know Anet’s “type”? Like, do you study the psychology of corporations?

How have you determined there’s a vast majority against the name? Have you counted all the unique names and properly assessed where they stand on the issue?

Have you considered maybe " the rest of the world " is getting 12 when ArenaNet is the one getting 3? And where is the proof they’ve done this numerous times?