Guild Wars 2

300 range cone… really??

+1

Probably more useless than the old spirit weapons.

+1

At the moment the only moderately useful mantra is Mantra of Lore and only for selfish reasons, forget about supporting allies with it, especially in PvE, it’s just not gonna happen.

I mean, I’m not the best player in the game, and maybe i’m missing something here, but – why would I ever want to use Mantras?

Lets say I’m doing 99CM, I ran out of matras – do I just stop attacking and recast all of them – do nothing for like 5-6 seconds?

Remove casting time on mantras, it serves no purpose but being inconvenient.

450 360 degree aoe on all of them.

Rework the elite mantra, it has no use and is just weak. Its an elite and should be a game changer.

You guys love to complain over nothing.

I know you would love to have super overpowered aoe infinite burn support skills but that would break the game.

You should also be clear about what game mode your complaining about, not all elite specs will work for all game modes.

Yall are asking for buffs meanwhile i’m worried we will be nerfed hard, Firebrand does insane amounts of damage.

Firebrand deals insane amounts of damage to a DPS golem standing still at melee range.

That’s about all it does.

Darknicrofia.2604:

Firebrand deals insane amounts of damage to a DPS golem standing still at melee range.

That’s about all it does.

This, it is only good versus a golem, its just crap in wvw and pvp.

Well no more guard for me, got to test my main char “The Deadeye”.

Darknicrofia.2604:

Firebrand deals insane amounts of damage to a DPS golem standing still at melee range.

That’s about all it does.

So we will be gods in PvE, i see no problem here
We can use DragonHunter for PvP.

Arnath.2319:

You guys love to complain over nothing.

I know you would love to have super overpowered aoe infinite burn support skills but that would break the game.

You should also be clear about what game mode your complaining about, not all elite specs will work for all game modes.

Yall are asking for buffs meanwhile i’m worried we will be nerfed hard, Firebrand does insane amounts of damage.

No one is talking about damage you git. Mantras are fundamentally broken in terms of usability. In WvW they’re absolutely useless because they require people to be directly in front of you and within melee range. Why would I take any of those when I can take shouts, burn off two condis on nearby allies a go ans still spam extremely useful boons for pretty much 1/100th of the effort? They’re not good.

And if damage is what you’re worried about: The damage on Flame Rush is mediocre compared to Justice / PW combo. Even if it were fixed I’d take the group support options over it in sPvP and WvW. I’m not giving up tons of sustain and group support for a little extra damage.

Arnath.2319:

Yall are asking for buffs meanwhile i’m worried we will be nerfed hard, Firebrand does insane amounts of damage.

You do know those 20 stacks of burning FB has been getting can be stacked by a base Guardian right? FB doesn’t bring anything to the table, if Anet honestly cared about giving Guardians a burn spec, PvE VoJ would have a baseline 4s duration like PvE and spirit weapons would have been made into true minions. Instead they refuse to buff those because FB was coming along.

And 300 range cones on a melee class would make sense if they were all attacks, but since more of them buff allies they are completely contrary to how the class is designed. DH has the same problem, in PvE you just melee the crap out of people because then you get to at least use your traps.

You’ll be gods in Sabetha, Gors and Xera.

Then do nothing vs the other raid bosses that require more than standing in melee range.

Brutaly.6257:

Darknicrofia.2604:

Firebrand deals insane amounts of damage to a DPS golem standing still at melee range.

That’s about all it does.

This, it is only good versus a golem, its just crap in wvw and pvp.

Well no more guard for me, got to test my main char “The Deadeye”.

Some elite specs are not meant to be played in some game modes, look at the Warrior elite spec, it’s pure pvp.

We are not meant to forget about DragonHunter, elite specs are meant to be switched in and out, let DragonHunter be our elite spec for PvP, and Firebrand our elite spec for PvE, it makes balance easier and allows the devs to make those elite spec strong in their unique ares.

Darknicrofia.2604:

You’ll be gods in Sabetha, Gors and Xera.

Then do nothing vs the other raid bosses that require more than standing in melee range.

Then we can respec and use our other elite specs are talents.

Firebrand is not meant to replace DragonHunter.

Mantras are not meant to replace all our other skills.

If shouts work better in WvW then use shouts, it dosn’t mean Mantras suck, it just means there not meant to WvW.

Arnath.2319:

Brutaly.6257:

Darknicrofia.2604:

Firebrand deals insane amounts of damage to a DPS golem standing still at melee range.

That’s about all it does.

This, it is only good versus a golem, its just crap in wvw and pvp.

Well no more guard for me, got to test my main char “The Deadeye”.

Some elite specs are not meant to be played in some game modes, look at the Warrior elite spec, it’s pure pvp.

We are not meant to forget about DragonHunter, elite specs are meant to be switched in and out, let DragonHunter be our elite spec for PvP, and Firebrand our elite spec for PvE, it makes balance easier and allows the devs to make those elite spec strong in their unique ares.

If FB is our PvE spec, please tell me where you would use it? It sure as hell won’t be raids because why bring a FB when you can get quickness guaranteed from a Chrono and way better DPS from a DH. Open world is useless to count for anything because spamming 1 is too OP.

Azoqu.8917:

Arnath.2319:

Brutaly.6257:

Darknicrofia.2604:

Firebrand deals insane amounts of damage to a DPS golem standing still at melee range.

That’s about all it does.

This, it is only good versus a golem, its just crap in wvw and pvp.

Well no more guard for me, got to test my main char “The Deadeye”.

Some elite specs are not meant to be played in some game modes, look at the Warrior elite spec, it’s pure pvp.

We are not meant to forget about DragonHunter, elite specs are meant to be switched in and out, let DragonHunter be our elite spec for PvP, and Firebrand our elite spec for PvE, it makes balance easier and allows the devs to make those elite spec strong in their unique ares.

If FB is our PvE spec, please tell me where you would use it? It sure as hell won’t be raids because why bring a FB when you can get quickness guaranteed from a Chrono and way better DPS from a DH. Open world is useless to count for anything because spamming 1 is too OP.

Why have Chrono when you can have FB with perma quickness, s**t ton of other buffs and condi dmg at the same time?

Oh, and that’s just HIS skills, God forbid you happen to have 1 Chrono on the team xD

I just hope when they nerf him, they don’t do it to oblivion and make it useles.

Mantras need IMMEDIATE fixing/buffing!!!!! IMMEDIATELY!!!!!! aaaaaaaaaaah

Git gud.

Want to give allies the buffs? Then actually face them. Deal with it.

For the record, it’s much more convenient than expecting my allies to stand in wells, that’s for sure.

Doombringer BG.3740:

Why have Chrono when you can have FB with perma quickness, s**t ton of other buffs and condi dmg at the same time?

Here are the just some of the reasons to take a chrono over a FB:
- Alacrity
- Distory
And the big one:
- Actual real perma quickness because you don’t have to aim kittenty cones and run out of melee (aka DPS loss) in order to hit your team with a buff that should be 360 anyhow

Doombringer BG.3740:

Why have Chrono when you can have FB with perma quickness, s**t ton of other buffs and condi dmg at the same time?

Oh, and that’s just HIS skills, God forbid you happen to have 1 Chrono on the team xD

Chrono wipes the floor with a FB trying to give out quickness. Not to mention alacrity, distort and the craptons of other little things chronos can bring along if they want.

Oh, no, something requires aiming? BLASPHEMY! /sarcasm
I don’t think anyone got that I was joking. Hopefully this clears it.
Also, I think they’re both good for what they are, just cause something is different and people are too lazy to aim which makes it a harder class to play, doesn’t mean it’s bad. Well, maybe it’s bad for the people that can’t play it or are too lazy to learn. Some prefer challenge and more diversity instead of just spam a few abilities and call it skill.
Plus, after years of the same playstyle, it’s nice to have something different. One will be useful in one area, other in another area, some will be completely useless, some will be OP, in the end, it doesn’t matter as long as people have fun.

- “Why you all have to be mad? It’s only game.”

Cones also allow the skills to be stronger, make them aoe and they will have to be nerfed.

Arnath.2319:

Cones also allow the skills to be stronger, make them aoe and they will have to be nerfed.

They’ll get nerfed hard anyway, just hope it’s not into uselessness. x)
I’ve wanted to play proper SUPPORT guardian who GUARDs people in PvE for a while. :s
Don’t get me wrong though, i like my full zerk guard, but I like to support too.

This thread is proof that people that spout their kitten in here do not play the game at all.

Firebrand mantras and books are insanely powerful and will be severely nerfed in the coming weeks.

I don’t know why there are some people defending this design. Mantras are awful. No reason to use the supportive ones ANYWHERE. WvW and PvP are obvious useless, the only people you’ll hit is yourself, there is support doing that. Raids? Good luck with melee in front of you. Fractals/dungeons? Again, you’ll hit only you, if lucky, one extra guy.

They are really bad now, just bad. (I believe) What they wanted to make is to have powerful effects on lower cooldown, but restrict area. The effects are not powerful enough and the cooldown are not low enough (now they are on average 12 seconds) to justify this design. If they really want to work with 300 range and small cone, then they need to reduce by a lot the cooldown or increase the effects (huge buffs) to actually be viable to use.

Darknicrofia.2604:

300 range cone… really??

its a class that needs to stay behind ANet made that to help player positioning.

Wishmaster.7693:

This thread is proof that people that spout their kitten in here do not play the game at all.

Firebrand mantras and books are insanely powerful and will be severely nerfed in the coming weeks.

With no stability and long cast times, how are mantras and toms extremely powerful? Sure in a fight where you don’t get focused it does damage but any remote focus and you’re history.

We are not meant to forget about DragonHunter, elite specs are meant to be switched in and out, let DragonHunter be our elite spec for PvP, and Firebrand our elite spec for PvE, it makes balance easier and allows the devs to make those elite spec strong in their unique ares.

If
1) It is not clearly stated by the devs that FB is for PvE and DH for PvP
2) and other classes don’t have the same situation (an elite for pve and an elite for pvp)
it’s a design failure.
Is GW2 an AAA buy to play MMO or an obscure free to play MMO ?

phokus.8934:

Wishmaster.7693:

This thread is proof that people that spout their kitten in here do not play the game at all.

Firebrand mantras and books are insanely powerful and will be severely nerfed in the coming weeks.

With no stability and long cast times, how are mantras and toms extremely powerful? Sure in a fight where you don’t get focused it does damage but any remote focus and you’re history.

Just stand back and cast from a safe distance.
Oh wait

Go in quick and use your mobility to escape before getting bursted?
Nevermind.

phokus.8934:

Wishmaster.7693:

This thread is proof that people that spout their kitten in here do not play the game at all.

Firebrand mantras and books are insanely powerful and will be severely nerfed in the coming weeks.

With no stability and long cast times, how are mantras and toms extremely powerful? Sure in a fight where you don’t get focused it does damage but any remote focus and you’re history.

It’s extremely powerful vs the DPS Golems that don’t move or hit back.

Darknicrofia.2604:

You’ll be gods in Sabetha, Gors and Xera.

Then do nothing vs the other raid bosses that require more than standing in melee range.

Look, I agree with the mantra comments but this is just exaggerating. Nearly all of them are standing still in melee for the most part at this point and of the few that aren’t, only rly matthias is good for condi dmg anyway (and even then he doesn’t move a lot in a good group).

As a (former) Mesmer who really liked the Mantra build until they broke it, I’ve got two things to say:

1. The Mantras need to trigger in a circular AOE like Mesmer Mantras do. There’s absolutely no reason for them to be a cone and it works against the concept of supporting allies from melee range (which is the Firebrand “thing”).

1. There’s nothing wrong with Mantras having a long cast time — that’s how they are supposed to work — but the cooldown when all charges are expended is utterly unnecessary. The cooldowns should be halved, and the trait that reduced the recharge timers should also affect the base cooldown on top of that 50% reduction.

I honestly believe that the ArenaNet design team is terrified of Mantras, but I’m not sure why. The Mesmer versions have been repeatedly nerfed and are now basically unusable. The Guardian versions are weak out of the gate. Yes, there was a time when Mesmer Mantras were incredibly powerful, but they weren’t “tuned down” so much as “beaten with a nerf bat”.

The good news is that the rest of Firebrand feels really powerful.

What’s with Anet’s obsession with giving Guards cone spells? They just don’t work on a melee focused character. Cone spells are already super awkward to use existing ones, why add them to new ones?

Put the range on 750. This should be enough to be behind your teammates buffing them without being to far away to hop back in.
I need some clarification on mantras. I understand that correctly that mantras refill the charges over time if you do nout use the last charge?

InsaneQR.7412:

I need some clarification on mantras. I understand that correctly that mantras refill the charges over time if you do nout use the last charge?

Yes.

InsaneQR.7412:

Put the range on 750. This should be enough to be behind your teammates buffing them without being to far away to hop back in.

750 is extreme. Just make them the same as old staff auto, wider cones with 600 range.

The thing is, you don’t have to be behind your teammates, you can stand on the other side of the boss, facing your teammates. But with only 300 range, this doesn’t work for large hitbox bosses.

InsaneQR.7412:

Put the range on 750. This should be enough to be behind your teammates buffing them without being to far away to hop back in.
I need some clarification on mantras. I understand that correctly that mantras refill the charges over time if you do nout use the last charge?

Why would you need a longer range if you wanted to get back in quicker? Short cones mean you just take a few steps back and turn a bit to hit the most people. It doesn’t seem to be designed to hit every person.

And on mantras, they even stated on the stream that they have a long cast time but more charges and the charges come back quicker, so you aren’t meant to necessarily blow them all at once and wait for the cooldown. I think the idea is that with the third charge being more powerful, it comes with a drawback when using it.

jief.2509:

InsaneQR.7412:

Put the range on 750. This should be enough to be behind your teammates buffing them without being to far away to hop back in.
I need some clarification on mantras. I understand that correctly that mantras refill the charges over time if you do nout use the last charge?

And on mantras, they even stated on the stream that they have a long cast time but more charges and the charges come back quicker, so you aren’t meant to necessarily blow them all at once and wait for the cooldown. I think the idea is that with the third charge being more powerful, it comes with a drawback when using it.

The final charge comes with a triple drawback, you lose the steady supply of charges, you have to wait a significant cooldown and you have to channel the mantra again for 2.75s.

It’s too much and just not worth it all with the current itteration. The cooldowns should be shorter, at least the healing mantra should be 20s, as the real heal is tied to the final charge. As it is, it’s only there to be used for the quickness traits.

RabbitUp.8294:

InsaneQR.7412:

Put the range on 750. This should be enough to be behind your teammates buffing them without being to far away to hop back in.

750 is extreme. Just make them the same as old staff auto, wider cones with 600 range.

The thing is, you don’t have to be behind your teammates, you can stand on the other side of the boss, facing your teammates. But with only 300 range, this doesn’t work for large hitbox bosses.

Yeah 600 could work too. Just more range and a broader cone would be fine. the effects are actually good IMO. the Elite Mantra could use some improvemets but the triple stunbreak could be very nice on CC heavy bosses.

As mantras are at the current time I wouldn’t use them. The cone system needs to be reworked.

RabbitUp.8294:

phokus.8934:

Wishmaster.7693:

This thread is proof that people that spout their kitten in here do not play the game at all.

Firebrand mantras and books are insanely powerful and will be severely nerfed in the coming weeks.

With no stability and long cast times, how are mantras and toms extremely powerful? Sure in a fight where you don’t get focused it does damage but any remote focus and you’re history.

Just stand back and cast from a safe distance.
Oh wait

Go in quick and use your mobility to escape before getting bursted?
Nevermind.

I don’t understand why more people don’t understand this basic concept. You can have insanely powerful support or damage, but it doesn’t matter if you have no way to reasonably avoid taking damage or being focused.

It’s like playing a glass staff ele except you’re in melee range, it doesn’t work and it never will work unless the spec is so insanely overtuned that it just insta-gibs any enemy it comes in contact with before they can even focus it.

Nick.6972:

Lets say I’m doing 99CM, I ran out of matras – do I just stop attacking and recast all of them – do nothing for like 5-6 seconds?

The answer is that you probably shouldn’t use up all your mantras in the first place.

IMHO one of the problems with them is that burning the third charge is almost never worthwhile unless you absolutely know you’ll have 30s or so of downtime.

The more I think about it, the more I feel like the dragonhunter should have gotten axe and firebrand should have gotten longbow. Of course, the mantras still need to be fixed, as well as the tomes and just about everything about the firebrand need fixing. But think about it, the longbow just makes more sense on firebrand gameplay-wise.

Possibly they could be better. Truly. I don’t debate that.

But mantras were the high point of firebrand when I took a lot at them.

Short 15s recharge means they’re reliably available. The exact opposite of tomes.

what good is a short recharge if they hit nothing?

Darknicrofia.2604:

what good is a short recharge if they hit nothing?

Oh come on. Nothing? Really? Not ever?

Saying things like that, do you want to be taken seriously? Really? Ever?

they’re literally sword auto attack range…

But all of them isnt cones tbh even though the text says they are, might be an hotfix during the beta but this morning i hit stuff/allies behind me with them. Its only mantra of truth/flame that uses the cone. Solace has an animation but gives aegis behind you granting quickness.

If they just fix the damaging mantras to aoe they are imo good to go.

I can’t confirm that. Tested it right now (with some patch since yesterday) and all four support mantras remain frontal cones. The only way to give quickness to someone behind me was the on healing skill trait.

They are all cones.

How wide is the cone? Is it 90? I Didn’t test Guard much