Guild Wars 2

I don’t want to criticize upcoming changes to meditation but the more time elaps the more i think we are missing the guardian role…

What i mean is: why all those buffs on meditation skills? I think meditations are the first skill type to get 5 slot in, really? So if I want to optimize my traits why should i use other type of skills over meditation when i get 5 out 5 skills which benefits from the same traits?

Yes, you would say: because meditation are selfish. And THIS is the problem! Why is guardian getting buffs on the selfish aspect?! Wasn’t guardian supposed to be group play oriented?

Now just to talk about what a guardian can do for the party as a SUPPORT class:
- might stacks (staff and stufs) -> every class can stack the same quantity or even more, and avene warriors now can!
- various random boon spamming -> enginers? elementalists? even rangers can!
- wall -> yes this is the only thing guardian are better than other classes…
- heals -> unless you are running a full healing power build it is pretty hard to seriously heal your party… even warriors got 1.4k aoe heal on shouts…

so what i’m saying is that guardian is loosing its support ability in favor of more selfish skills, why! I chose guardian because i wanted to be a support class not a warrior like selfish, high dps, immortal class.

Just few things about lasts updates to guardian class:
1) Force of Will: +300 vitality.
Why!? Tell me why this trait! Tell me why in honor! Who can use this trait whitout waste previous 2? That line was for shouts… meh i don’t want to know anything else.

2) New healing skill… another meditation. I have nothing against meditation skills and i think a lot of ppl like them for the ability to increase our dps… but why add one more!
It seems nothing but to have 4 meditation means: 16 sec of fury simply pressing them all… which is almost perma fury… to a guardian? really? not vigor (that’s another point), not regen, not protection, not might but FURY!

3) now we got 5 meditations! FIVE! o cmon really? so are you telling me we got 20 sec of fury? Now it is perma FURY or almost… now we got 10k SELFISH heal! CMON! and now we got reduced cd on … renwed focus! WHY?

4) Renwed Focus with reduce CD, 2k heal and fury… Now just follow me a moment, at beginning renewed focus was like: “you are immune to damage, you can stand 2s more against enemy attacks but this skill as big CD and the strength comes from the renew of virtues cd”; now it is like “save you but man! yeah!” Why should that skill refresh virtue cd in a meditation build! To burn for 3 more sec a target and get 10% damage bonus? Virtues was… a long time ago… SUPPORT! 0/0/0/0/5 was a MUST and that was fine becase guardian was SUPPORT… but now… someone say “hey, guardians don’t use anymore virtues in dungeons”… WHY should i use them! Maybe i use them but the party get nothing because 0/0/0/0/5 doesn’t exist anymore!

5) Vigore nerf -> this is not bad… this is the worst thing! we have low health pool and those dodges was usefull to keep heals up (with dodge) and avoid attacks… but hey, we got 300 vitality which no one will use… better than nothing i guess…

6) shouts are still here… sitting at their place since game launch… i love shouts not because they are “strong” or “easy” but because they give much party support… oh wait “they SHOULD give much party support”. All we got for shouts are: reduced cd, condition removal and, well, altruistic healing… really?

Now i give you 3 reason why those traits aren’t enough for the only “party support” skills we have (yes we have consecrations and so but those are usefull only in some circumstances).

1) Altruistic Healing works with shouts… well, so we got the WONDERFULL numer of 72 hp per boon per target (total of 2×5=10)which is… 720hp! WOW now we have 720 hp every … 24? and… 28? … and … 48 seconds! i think this is op…
The truth is that AH is good but not because of shouts but of staff and symbol spamming!

2)retreat? swiftness and aegis… on 60 sec cd? i can understand aegis can’t be on a low cd but cmon… 20 sec of aegis? i don’t think aegis can stand up more than 5 sec… and swiftness? 20 sec on 60sec cd? it is about 40% uptime (traited) which waste our other 2 traits because of those 48 SECONDS! yes a condition removal on 48 sec cd sucks!

3) all we got is 3 shouts over 5 skills now tell me if that is fair:
meditations: reduced cd, fury, heal x5 = 20sec fury (but you can use 2 more meditation and reach 28 seconds), 10k heal
shouts: reduced cd, heal, conditions removed = 2160 hp, 3 conditions removed

so you basically are telling me that
10k – 2k = 8k heals + 28 sec fury are the SAME of 3 conditions removed? REALLY?

i don’t know what to say… if i wanted all those dps and selfish play i’d rolled a warrior… but if it is ok for you… well done.

TL;DR
guardian is becoming even more selfish: group play? nah i have my meditations now!

I stopped reading after the third paragraph and went straight to the tldr, because wall o’ text is a wall.

That being said, why can’t Guardians be Selfish or Supportive? Seems like both are quite viable.

Just because I play a Guardian I have to be forced into support? That mentality goes against one of the driving missions of this game, which is to play how you want.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I stopped reading after the third paragraph and went straight to the tldr, because wall o’ text is a wall.

That being said, why can’t Guardians be Selfish or Supportive? Seems like both are quite viable.

Just because I play a Guardian I have to be forced into support? That mentality goes against one of the driving missions of this game, which is to play how you want.

Guardian can protect people with support or protect them from future harm by lighting people on fire and spinning in circles with a 2 handed sword.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I stopped reading after the third paragraph and went straight to the tldr, because wall o’ text is a wall.

That being said, why can’t Guardians be Selfish or Supportive? Seems like both are quite viable.

Just because I play a Guardian I have to be forced into support? That mentality goes against one of the driving missions of this game, which is to play how you want.

You should have read all … but a wall of text is a wall of text i know…

Anyway what i said is that guardian is being force to do DPS while is supposed to be a supportive class. I know that every class can become everything but if guardians don’t get something on de support aspect rather then meditation for dps other classes will surclass us in the only aspect we were … “unique”.

At the actual state of the game warriors can stack might faster, give precision, heal, regen, toughness, high damage while guardian have to go or full damage with 0 party support or full support with low damage and STILL LOW PARTY SUPPORT! why!?

G U A R D I A N is supposed to help party… now you can say arenanet want to make all rounded classes, ok! give guardian more offensive abilities but COME ON give us SUPPORT above all… i don’t even know why to play guardian anymore! And it is my main class! When i run dungeons/fractals all what i do is try to do the highest damage while support party with boons and… wall… but what i always got in party is:
elementalist which spam might like hell… and ton of damage
warriors which spam crit/power boosts… and ton of damage
engineers/rangers which spam every boon simply planting turrets/spirits

oh… it is becoming another wall of text… .

Short Answer – Every other build can be worked in as support (yes, even spirit weapons w/ Bow & Shield).

Consecrations – Support.
Shouts – Support
Virtues / Boons – Support
Spirit Weapons – Bow & Shield (crappy build overall outside of trolling in spvp)
Signets – Broken – only fun w/ Spirit- hammer / Hammer / Bane for trolling lockdown fun.

Meditations – DPS.

Nuff said.

^
And even then, Merciful Intervention is also supportive in nature. I think guardians should be able to spec for something outside of support and/or bunkering, and meditations are nice for that (not that I would personally use such a build).

I don’t get you at all. Guardian was allways strong of the supportive side, still is and will still be.
What do you talk about really?

PvE – Ppl want Guardians all the time, reflection, condi removal, party blocks, blinds, really good DPS. What do you want more for support? Shouts being viable? I run 2 shouts most of the time not traited and they still work just fine for what I need from them. some support builds you talked there ppl don’t want ever. Shouts heal Warrior? Who wants that crap in PvE really? Turret Engineer? Ppl usually don’t even want Engineer, but if they are there they want them to go damage, not turrets. Same with Rangers. AI builds in PvE are crap.

PvP – Meditations buffs is nice, we got some more viability in a DPS role, which is nice. NA meta doesn’t use much of bunkers, but in EU they do, most Guardians are still wanted as bunker support, where Shouts shine. I really don’t enjoy bunker role and as DPS Guard, Meditations are a bless. And if you see well they are pretty much the only viable way for us to DPS in PvP. Ppl try Shouts sometimes but any Shout dps Guardian will lose to Meditations any day, I think we deserve the buff, if we are locked to a spec to do damage viably in PvP, make that spec viable in the PvP snario, which is what they are doing.

WvW – Unless you roam, you will never got Meditations. Guess wich spec is the most common again. SHOUTS. Shouts with AH is the most common spec for Guardian in WvW for zergs. That or Virtues Guardian, wich also uses Shouts or Concecrations and also focus on Support

I really don’t get what is your problem, the support side of the Guardian was allways the strongest, and will still be wanted everyday

I’m tired of my favorite class being dependent on allies to win. Therefore, I completely disagree with any claim you make about how guardians are supposed to be based around group play.

I would love to see the self centered aspect of the guardian developed as much as the supportive aspect has been. Of course, I’m not sure that really vibes with the concept of Guardian, even outside of GW2. Even so, I’m certainly not interested in seeing meditations boosted any more than tomorrow’s patch would allow.

The whole concept of the class has always been a bit limiting in a game where everyone already has the defensive tools they need for anything but the most difficult encounters. I wouldn’t object to a mode of play where it’s EITHER support OR selfish buffing, but not both.

Meditations were buffed to be competitive. Pigeonholing this class as support has caused it to stagnate. In a game where everyone brings their own dps and main heal, restraining the guardian to support is to ignore how the game is actually played

I think shouts, meditations and consecrations are all in a really good place now.

Signets and spirit weapons could use some/more work to make them viable.

Virtues could use a revamping. I find them handy but not really defining like a unique class skill sould be. Would love for them to be more like Chosen auras in WHO. As they curremtly stand they are a handy buff on a long cd.

Haha good to see such thread to spice up the forum.

Anyway, OP’s rant is valid from the perspective of supportive role he always wanted
to be. Sadly, the current update patch was more for pvp players. Ppl would choose over support bunker engineer =/. Therefore Guardian is more favorable with DPS role in the common match. It also solved disengagement from fight with the changes on MI.

To counter your point :
1) If you cant save yourself, how can you save others? Trait that +300vit is totally valid.
2) Why bother about that new healing skill ? You got your favorite Healing Breeze
that supports anyway? Mosr Medi Guard still choose Shelter over it.
3) Well, the fact is that even with 4 medi skill, Guard is in no way good in sustaining in a fight.
4) I don’t get your rant on revised Renewed Focus, it fits in dps and support role.
5) Vigor nerfed: This i support your rant.
6) Erm..the only shout that i found useful is SYG. Even if traited with remove condi on shout, it could not stop the tidal wave of meta condi users.

So what kind of support are you actually looking for ?

The more allies you have around, the more effective support becomes.
Whenever you expect to be surrounded by a decent number of teamates (Dungeons, WvW zerg or even full roaming group, Spvp main bunker-support, …) meditations get easily outperformed. They are mostly for those cases where the allies aren’t there (sPvP roaming, WvW solo/duo roaming, …).
For PvE, the skillset they offer isn’t even remotely interesting. In fact, I find guardian selfish PvE capabilities somewhat lackluster (still better than many other classes tough).

Here’s wondering why Guardian isn’t the best support class in GW2 but only slightly better than all the other ones.

Nick.6972:

Here’s wondering why Guardian isn’t the best support class in GW2 but only slightly better than all the other ones.

Is it better than Ele?

Relentliss.2170:

Nick.6972:

Here’s wondering why Guardian isn’t the best support class in GW2 but only slightly better than all the other ones.

Is it better than Ele?

Nope, good elementalist can full heal, have more passive speen more ways to run out of combat.

Aeolus.3615:

Nope, good elementalist can full heal, have more passive speen more ways to run out of combat.

Ok guys, before the thread derails let me explain. You are all right but actually only Aeolus got what i said.

The problem with the actual guardian is that while other classes got in the last few months buff and improvements to the supportive side we only got improvements on the dps side; the result? Now we are mediocre at support and not enough at dps… so while before we were “unique” for the support now the only thing we are unique is that kitten WALL only this!

first of all for those who say “guardian isn’t supposed to be supporter” read the description here: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/guardian/

then in order to avoid a wall of text i want to “counter” every skil set of guardian then you can tell me where i’m wrong:

consecrations: these are the only “unique” skills of guardian! Wall and Hallowed Ground are the only reason guardian are needed in party but, BUT these are only for certain situations… who will use a Wall in CoF? Then guardians are useless.

meditations: these are supposed to be the “dps” and gives you effects (teleports, burn etc), heals (2k), fury (4sec), all that with reduced cd and in 5x, really?

shouts: support? 3 condi remove on a 24, 28, 48 sec… and… some boons anyone can spam? … these are quite, QUITE good but as the main support aspect of this class them suck if compared to other classes!

signets: nothing to say; selfish and not usefull at all.

weapons: selfish and not usefull at all… but wait we got a 2k heal on bow! so now them are supposed to be “support”… because of those 2k heal… aoe… really… “support”… not useless… not a waste of space… now it is called “support”… nice.

I’m sorry guys if i look a bit aggressive but i can’t believe i started a class like guardian which is turning into a warrior… a mediocre warrior. And all this is going to improve the zerg mentality of the game… less support more zerging… less defensive abilities more teleports in the face of enemies which award you with heals and fury… well i think i’ll roll a warrior then…

Vargamonth.2047:

The more allies you have around, the more effective support becomes.
Whenever you expect to be surrounded by a decent number of teamates (Dungeons, WvW zerg or even full roaming group, Spvp main bunker-support, …) meditations get easily outperformed. They are mostly for those cases where the allies aren’t there (sPvP roaming, WvW solo/duo roaming, …).
For PvE, the skillset they offer isn’t even remotely interesting. In fact, I find guardian selfish PvE capabilities somewhat lackluster (still better than many other classes tough).

shouts and aoe skills only works on a limited number of target which is most of times 5. So, no. In WvW or dungeon you get the same result from those.

Anet considered that Guardians are on a good spot.
This mean they have to break the class now. This is what they do the best.
Hope they feel thieves are on a good spot soon.

Guardian isn’t master of anything, it does everything average.
Guardian isn’t excelling at anything.
Other professions can do what guardian can just as good if not better.

Nick.6972:

Guardian isn’t master of anything, it does everything average.
Guardian isn’t excelling at anything.
Other professions can do what guardian can just as good if not better.

I disagree…they are the best at team support…or used to be at least.
This is the purpose of the class. Anet should work on improving or adpating how they can do it. Not on making them bursty selfish players like thieves or wars.

Kicast.1459:

Nick.6972:

Guardian isn’t master of anything, it does everything average.
Guardian isn’t excelling at anything.
Other professions can do what guardian can just as good if not better.

I disagree…they are the best at team support…or used to be at least.
This is the purpose of the class. Anet should work on improving or adpating how they can do it. Not on making them bursty selfish players like thieves or wars.

This!

ToL 2 finals. Both teams dropped guardian altogether. They replaced them with celestial ele’s and engi’s.

May as well play selfishly and be the new warrior. Your already outdated and replaced on mid as support.

Kjeldoran.3849:

Vargamonth.2047:

The more allies you have around, the more effective support becomes.
Whenever you expect to be surrounded by a decent number of teamates (Dungeons, WvW zerg or even full roaming group, Spvp main bunker-support, …) meditations get easily outperformed. They are mostly for those cases where the allies aren’t there (sPvP roaming, WvW solo/duo roaming, …).
For PvE, the skillset they offer isn’t even remotely interesting. In fact, I find guardian selfish PvE capabilities somewhat lackluster (still better than many other classes tough).

shouts and aoe skills only works on a limited number of target which is most of times 5. So, no. In WvW or dungeon you get the same result from those.

5 is more than enough people for the support to shine, and it’s a number you’ll always have in a zerg and usually on dungeons too unless you want to do them undermaned.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

ToL 2 finals. Both teams dropped guardian altogether. They replaced them with celestial ele’s and engi’s.

May as well play selfishly and be the new warrior. Your already outdated and replaced on mid as support.

I don’t think we have really been replaced as mid support.
We’ve get somewhat outdated because the meta has shifted to a bunch of all-in-one characters whose combined support is enough to make us unnecessary, but individually we’re probably still the strongest individual support in the game.

Kjeldoran.3849:

first of all for those who say “guardian isn’t supposed to be supporter” read the description here: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/guardian/

Guardian

Guardians are devoted fighters who protect their allies and smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their virtues. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfless defenders who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to empower their allies to achieve victory.

• Seems as if you only ready the first part and conveniently glanced over the second part…. It’s called an “And Statement” for a reason.

Smite & Tactical… why? Cuz we’re glass cannon Medi DPS’ers!

Nick.6972:

Guardian isn’t master of anything, it does everything average.
Guardian isn’t excelling at anything.
Other professions can do what guardian can just as good if not better.

What other class can Blast every 4 sec?

I feel what you are saying. And agree to an extent. But ther are certain areas where guardian is really in demand. In fact they are pretty strong in all parts of the game. Some classes can not participate in some aspects well at all.

Amins.3710:

Guardian

Guardians are devoted fighters who protect their allies and smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their virtues. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfless defenders who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to empower their allies to achieve victory.

• Seems as if you only ready the first part and conveniently glanced over the second part…. It’s called an “And Statement” for a reason.

Smite & Tactical… why? Cuz we’re glass cannon Medi DPS’ers!

That’s not true at all. If you are sure of this then read other classes and look for “damage & support” in warrior’s description, finded? no? sorry but a warrior can support as, if not more, a guardian his party.

To add the sentence “it is a dps class AND SUPPORT” obviously shows the SUPPORT nature of the class simply because others don’t, got it? Well another example:

class 1: dps class
class 2: dps class
class 3: dps and support class
class 4: dps class
class 5: dps and support class

Which class is support? you will never say “no one” but “3 and 5” because they are the exception to the normal routine of “dps class”, and so is guardian.

I’m fine with Guardian not being the best DPS, what I do want is at least one thing Guardian does better than any other profession. And not just by a small margin.

You know why Eles and Engineers are better at mid support? Count the number of blast finishers available in any weapon set/toolkit set and count the water combo fields that can be generated. Now compare that to the Guardian class…

That’s the magical formula.

Guardians have light fields and an occasional fire field (Guardians just need to have variability in combo fields and it fixes the problem).

Now in order to make this thread a bit usefull for Devs here are some changes i would like to see:

-Monks Focus: heal reduce to 1500
why? because actual heal is so big, you can actually heal yourself for 12k in 1 sec while devasting enemies and curing condition and gaining fury and a coffe why not…

-Stand Your Ground
CD: 25 sec (20 traited) 5 sec stability & retailation
-Hold The Line
CD: 25 sec (20 traited) 5 sec protection & regeneration
-Retreat
CD: 40 sec (32 traited) 15 sec swiftness & 10 sec Aegis
-Save Yourselves
CD: 50 sec (40 traited) 10 sec all boons
why? SYG and HTL with 20 sec cd can give only 25% prot, retailation, stability and regen uptime. Do you think it is so much? An engineer can stack 30% prot uptime with 1 trait. Also the new Retreat can stack the same ammount of swiftness but the lower cd help us to keep it also for condi removal and SY… why 60 sec cd if it is already balanced to sacrifice ourself taking every condition around to only get some buffs? And it also got half duration in pvp! 50 sec are still too many but that would be a good update anyway.

-Sanctuary
CD: 90sec same effect 240 radius
why? … 120 sec cd? 120 radius? …

-Merciful Intervention
CD: 40 sec with the new teleport effect should be good if the heal stay on 2k.
why? 2k heal on a 40 sec (32 traited) skill is too much? it is about 62.5 hp sec even anti-toxin spay heals more!

Relentliss.2170:

Nick.6972:

Guardian isn’t master of anything, it does everything average.
Guardian isn’t excelling at anything.
Other professions can do what guardian can just as good if not better.

What other class can Blast every 4 sec?

I feel what you are saying. And agree to an extent. But ther are certain areas where guardian is really in demand. In fact they are pretty strong in all parts of the game. Some classes can not participate in some aspects well at all.

Thieves can spam blasts with their shortbow, and ele has blast in lightning hammer auto attack. And neither of them leave light fields on their auto attack effectively destroying any synergy with a party’s blasting.

@Nick and @Artaz you really got what i said !
also the field variety is a big problem! i think that light field should be reworked…

Kjeldoran.3849:

Now in order to make this thread a bit usefull for Devs here are some changes i would like to see:

-Monks Focus: heal reduce to 1500
why? because actual heal is so big, you can actually heal yourself for 12k in 1 sec while devasting enemies and curing condition and gaining fury and a coffe why not…

-Stand Your Ground
CD: 25 sec (20 traited) 5 sec stability & retailation
-Hold The Line
CD: 25 sec (20 traited) 5 sec protection & regeneration
-Retreat
CD: 40 sec (32 traited) 15 sec swiftness & 10 sec Aegis
-Save Yourselves
CD: 50 sec (40 traited) 10 sec all boons
why? SYG and HTL with 20 sec cd can give only 25% prot, retailation, stability and regen uptime. Do you think it is so much? An engineer can stack 30% prot uptime with 1 trait. Also the new Retreat can stack the same ammount of swiftness but the lower cd help us to keep it also for condi removal and SY… why 60 sec cd if it is already balanced to sacrifice ourself taking every condition around to only get some buffs? And it also got half duration in pvp! 50 sec are still too many but that would be a good update anyway.

-Sanctuary
CD: 90sec same effect 240 radius
why? … 120 sec cd? 120 radius? …

-Merciful Intervention
CD: 40 sec with the new teleport effect should be good if the heal stay on 2k.
why? 2k heal on a 40 sec (32 traited) skill is too much? it is about 62.5 hp sec even anti-toxin spay heals more!

Really? Reduce heal of Meditations? The way you describe the usage of meditation is for a Guardian to pop all at once. Good job, any Medi Guard that does that is a dead Guardian. Do you even played the spec before to give kittenty sugestions about changing it? I don’t think so. Don’t be all kitten just because your build didn’t change.

Also ppl say here Guardian Support is so inferior to other classes support, but last time I checked the best PvP team in all Guild Wars 2, TCG (The Civilized Gentleman aka Team Mist) used a bunker/support Guardian, and beat all the other team in the All stars quite easy. They also used an Ele, they did not repalced the Guardian for the Ele.
Bunker/Support Guardian is still in a strong position and very wanted in PvP

About the rest of the changes, I think they are nice, but it’s not gonna happen.

ALSO, be happy for this change to the Guardian. They are the Best buffs this class ever got since lauch

Kicast.1459:

Nick.6972:

Guardian isn’t master of anything, it does everything average.
Guardian isn’t excelling at anything.
Other professions can do what guardian can just as good if not better.

I disagree…they are the best at team support…or used to be at least.
This is the purpose of the class. Anet should work on improving or adpating how they can do it. Not on making them bursty selfish players like thieves or wars.

Pigeonholing the class to a single, ally-dependent role is the whole reason why the class is in such a ‘meh’ spot to begin with. You even touch upon it yourself: Guardian was a really strong class at launch, but that was two years ago. Other classes have gotten many much needed QoL changes and can now compete for that one role that we were so good at, and now because of this guardian has become all but obsolete.

Kjeldoran.3849:

Now in order to make this thread a bit usefull for Devs here are some changes i would like to see:

-Monks Focus: heal reduce to 1500
why? because actual heal is so big, you can actually heal yourself for 12k in 1 sec while devasting enemies and curing condition and gaining fury and a coffe why not…

-Stand Your Ground
CD: 25 sec (20 traited) 5 sec stability & retailation
-Hold The Line
CD: 25 sec (20 traited) 5 sec protection & regeneration
-Retreat
CD: 40 sec (32 traited) 15 sec swiftness & 10 sec Aegis
-Save Yourselves
CD: 50 sec (40 traited) 10 sec all boons
why? SYG and HTL with 20 sec cd can give only 25% prot, retailation, stability and regen uptime. Do you think it is so much? An engineer can stack 30% prot uptime with 1 trait. Also the new Retreat can stack the same ammount of swiftness but the lower cd help us to keep it also for condi removal and SY… why 60 sec cd if it is already balanced to sacrifice ourself taking every condition around to only get some buffs? And it also got half duration in pvp! 50 sec are still too many but that would be a good update anyway.

-Sanctuary
CD: 90sec same effect 240 radius
why? … 120 sec cd? 120 radius? …

-Merciful Intervention
CD: 40 sec with the new teleport effect should be good if the heal stay on 2k.
why? 2k heal on a 40 sec (32 traited) skill is too much? it is about 62.5 hp sec even anti-toxin spay heals more!

Seriously, Meditations and Shouts guardian don’t compete for the same spot. Nerfing Monk Focus doesn’t make Shout Guardians more interesting at all.

That being said, I could agree with a slight CD reduction on some shouts (Hold the Line and Retreat). On the other hand, Stand Your Ground is incredibly powerful as it is now.
240 radius for sanctuary is kinda insane too. Some not so big radius increase would be welcomed however, at least make it big enough so someone in the middle of the sanctuary isn’t at melee range of outside attackers.

Lol. Who would spam all medis at once just to heal themselves xD im do not main a guardian but ive encountered a lot of medi builds imo the heal is fine since it is very easy to counter.

Ive never seen anyone blow all their cooldowns just to heal themselves though. I dont think anyone is dumb enough to do that.

Guys … that was an “extreme” example… i know meditations have to be used with criteria… BUT spam them all togheter give you more than you expect! really… that is like an anti-panic button easy to use, with great results and devasting effects over enemies…

Kjeldoran.3849:

Guys … that was an “extreme” example… i know meditations have to be used with criteria… BUT spam them all togheter give you more than you expect! really… that is like an anti-panic button easy to use, with great results and devasting effects over enemies…

Your example is bad. Just like blowing all Shouts at the same time for condi clear is extremely stupid. And since you used that “argument” to try to “prove” Medi is too good that needs a nerf on healing (like 2k heal is so OP, those 12k we would get would melt 2 secs after) so that support becomes more relevant (already is, Medi changes did not make Support any worse, if anything they might make it a bit better with Renewed Focus CD reduced, but too ltitle to notice, Bunker Guardian will still be wanted more than Meditation any day) somehow, I will end my contribution here by saying this.

Play Medi Guardian, it’s obvious that you never tried it deep enough to argue about it’s position compared to Support/Bunker Guardian. Support was allways in a good spot for Guardian and still is, even compared to other professions. Now they can support too which is great but they sure did not push Guardian off the table and they never will.

^ This.

No need for the hating on Medi-Guards.

top kek everyone who has every played mediguard has been begging for buffs and here comes the person who knows better and actually thinks it would be better to nerf all the mediguard utilities >___>

Meditations are, same as before, on a good spot.

mPascoal.4258:

Your example is bad. Just like blowing all Shouts at the same time for condi clear is extremely stupid. And since you used that “argument” to try to “prove” Medi is too good that needs a nerf on healing (like 2k heal is so OP, those 12k we would get would melt 2 secs after) so that support becomes more relevant (already is, Medi changes did not make Support any worse, if anything they might make it a bit better with Renewed Focus CD reduced, but too ltitle to notice, Bunker Guardian will still be wanted more than Meditation any day) somehow, I will end my contribution here by saying this.

Play Medi Guardian, it’s obvious that you never tried it deep enough to argue about it’s position compared to Support/Bunker Guardian. Support was allways in a good spot for Guardian and still is, even compared to other professions. Now they can support too which is great but they sure did not push Guardian off the table and they never will.

My example was an example and the simple fact that you actually get 12k heals, 20 sec fury and numbers of effect is simply… i dont want to say OP… but WRONG. Guardian is earning even more offensive abilities while it is supposed to be one of the best support class in the game and ACTUALLY it is one of the worst support and “not enough” at damage. At the actual state of the game the best support class are engineers (just look at boon spam and water blasts) and, if well played, elementalists.

And to reduce heals from meditations isn’t something of strange just follow me:
4 meditations = 8k heal
5 meditations = 10k heal
5 med (1.6k each) = 8k heal
got it? Also to “nerf” heals from meditations can actually help because in a game with even more zerg oriented mentality what whould you do with a “nerfed” dps? Go support, which is most natural thing to do for guardians. Not that we should do 0 damage but simply we should get more love on the support ability than dps.

PS: oh sorry but i actually play medi guard in pvp and … well heals from meditations is in a good spot… no wait WAS in a good spot NOW it is even more! It is not wrong the idea to give more heal, it is wrong to give even more heal on the same skillset!

But hey, we got an update on light field! Now we have Light Aura… it is wonderfull … i like it… really… BUT IT IS ANOTHER DPS BOOST! WHY? why do we need to spam vulnerability on hit? Why not a small aoe heal? Why not a small regen stack? Why not a small SOMETHINGOFSUPPORT!!!

I think i got it too much a personal thing

What, so guardians aren’t SUPPOSED to be able to be offensively built?

Give me a break, OP. This game was originally made with the premise that no class would be restricted to a specific role. This whole stigma of guardian being ‘meant to be support’ goes completely against that and is the whole reason why the class has stagnated on the balance front in the first place.

Black Box.9312:

What, so guardians aren’t SUPPOSED to be able to be offensively built?

Give me a break, OP. This game was originally made with the premise that no class would be restricted to a specific role. This whole stigma of guardian being ‘meant to be support’ goes completely against that and is the whole reason why the class has stagnated on the balance front in the first place.

do you really need me to repeat it again? Maybe it is because of my kittenty english i know… well i’ll repeat again:

“guardian is supposed to be one of the best support class in the game not saying that we should do 0 damage but simply that we should get more love to the support build (thing which is NOT happening)”

and ps: it is different “be able to build in more ways” than “build at average in all areas”…

I don’t know if i’d put meditations in a good spot, let me explain why:

-One of our newest traits, Focused mind now grants Fury to not only ourselves, but within a small area. I was hoping this was to be more of a selfish trait seeing as how Meditations are just that. The group application needs to be removed and the fury uptime needs a buff.

-Merciful intervention is a bit clunky but a good start to where it’s supposed to be.

-Litany of Wrath is still, in my opinion, one of the worst healing skills in the game. It’s an offensive healing skill given to a class that has very little to no capabilities to sticking to its target. It seems this skill should have been given to Warriors and Guardians should have been given the stance heal.

Kjeldoran.3849:

Black Box.9312:

What, so guardians aren’t SUPPOSED to be able to be offensively built?

Give me a break, OP. This game was originally made with the premise that no class would be restricted to a specific role. This whole stigma of guardian being ‘meant to be support’ goes completely against that and is the whole reason why the class has stagnated on the balance front in the first place.

do you really need me to repeat it again? Maybe it is because of my kittenty english i know… well i’ll repeat again:

“guardian is supposed to be one of the best support class in the game not saying that we should do 0 damage but simply that we should get more love to the support build (thing which is NOT happening)”

and ps: it is different “be able to build in more ways” than “build at average in all areas”…

You are contradicting yourself fairly bad now.

See, you’re not just asking for a buff to support. You’re also asking for a nerf to Meditations, which is the DPS route. If they were nerfed, it’d put them back in par to the way they were before, which was subpar to support. So, yes, nerfing Meditation and then buffing support would effective pigeon hole Guardians back into the support only role.