Guild Wars 2

Bash.7291:

Move meditation Traits to Zeal, lower AH healing, We now have an offensive heal based in an offensive line, and if people really want they can pick up AH, but as a med build really isn’t that effective anyways.

Then what would valor do?

I think the new heal seems good, the more damage you do the more you get healed for. One of dps guardians problems in pvp is that they don’t have very good defense, the new heal in theory could help elevate the problem.

It would still be a good trait line? Not sure why you ask that.

You will get killed before doing any damage in zerg fight, it is sometimes difficult to stand with both shelter and renewed focus in full PVT so shelter will still be mandatory for zerg fight.

The only skill to counter zerg burst is shelter. This skill is fine as long as you can stand enough to benefit from it.

Bash.7291:

Move meditation Traits to Zeal, lower AH healing, We now have an offensive heal based in an offensive line, and if people really want they can pick up AH, but as a med build really isn’t that effective anyways.

I agree with moving medi to zeal. It would be a very wise choice indeed.

What i would like is a fourth virtue for a weaker version of AH when passive and AH for the entire team for x sec when activated and the master trait in valor should boost that AH effect. This would move more support into valor which it lacks atm.

This would make 30/x/30/x/x the best burst build (toughness is needed in tpvp and wvw so it only makes sense valor and zeal is the burst since burst is the best form of damage in pvp. It would also make meditations heals available while using AH. I think this would put zeal in a much better shape and full berserker, full offense builds viable in wvw.

This would also improve our virtues greatly and untraited virtues are really weak atm.

username.4932:

You will get killed before doing any damage in zerg fight, it is sometimes difficult to stand with both shelter and renewed focus in full PVT so shelter will still be mandatory for zerg fight.

The only skill to counter zerg burst is shelter. This skill is fine as long as you can stand enough to benefit from it.

With a possible 5k instant base, boosted up to 7k with MF, I really don’t see it being an issue. If your standing too long in the kill zone your screwed anyways. Also keep in mind, that damage → healing wont be the only thing ticking. Dodge heals, resolve ticks, regen ticks. I think your going to be able to heal through alot more than you realize.

http://www.gw2db.com/skills/23649-litany-of-wrath

Basically, another low scaling skill, the tradeoff is that for 5 seconds you heal a percentage of damage. 35 secs CD.

Considering how much anet hates healing and specially guardians healing, do you think it will heal more than perhaps 2%?

What’s the cast time? Instant? If so that’s something.

its already being discussed at the topic above this one,
and its 30 sec cd

its instant because its a meditation

what i dont understand is:

gaurds heal when doing damage
warriors heal when getting hit

shouldnt this be the other way around? 0o

fadeaway.2807:

What’s the cast time? Instant? If so that’s something.

Tbh a skill that converts damage into healing “must” be instant to be effective and all other meditations are instant.

But tbh i fear it will be casting time on it and if so i wont use it or even try it. I have only found cool down on different sites so we can only speculate.

its imposible to have a casting time because its a meditation

I want a shout heal “Get over it!”

SilkySmooth.1574:

its imposible to have a casting time because its a meditation

What? I cant find anything arenanet has published that states that all meditations from here on and forward will be instant? What they did was make meditations instant so they could fit in the lack of fury in that trait and adressing that the trait only improved a couple of the existing meditations.

Ofc its possible, you assume it wont be. I can also assume (i dont though) that there is a casting time since all other healing skills in the game has casting time.

Tbh its logical that it should be casting time on it since there is no trait that makes it instant and there for its easier to balance the percentage of the heal. I hope its instant but i wouldnt be suprised if its not and i can also find reason to have a casting time.

Bash.7291:

It would still be a good trait line? Not sure why you ask that.

Not really, meditations are the best thing about it lol.

Brutaly.6257:

SilkySmooth.1574:

its imposible to have a casting time because its a meditation

What? I cant find anything arenanet has published that states that all meditations from here on and forward will be instant? What they did was make meditations instant so they could fit in the lack of fury in that trait and adressing that the trait only improved a couple of the existing meditations.

Ofc its possible, you assume it wont be. I can also assume (i dont though) that there is a casting time since all other healing skills in the game has casting time.

Tbh its logical that it should be casting time on it since there is no trait that makes it instant and there for its easier to balance the percentage of the heal. I hope its instant but i wouldnt be suprised if its not and i can also find reason to have a casting time.

Anet specifically stated when they changed focus mind that meditations felt clunky with cast times so they made smite condition and merciful intervention instant casts. So I’m assuming that logic will apply to Litany of Wrath as well.

+ you can see on gw2db that it doesnt have a casting time

username.4932:

Boosting dps solo build with this new skill sounds really weird to me. So it will be great for spvp and useless in wvw zerg meta where shelter is and will remain the way to go.

I feel something is wrong with guardian direction, it would have been more coherent to have shout instead.

New heals are not about giving every class a brand new heal that will be better for every build in every situation.

It’s about providing a heal to benefit the playstyles and builds that are currently having to use a heal that doesn’t work so well for them.

This new heal is not intended to replace Signet, Shelter or Breeze, it’s simply meant to be another option.

Most builds will continue to use Shelter and Signet as their optimal skill.

We aren’t all supposed to be using the same best heal, best skill and best this and that, we are well balanced between our traits, weapons and general skills. Which is why there are many different ways to play a Guardian.

Unlike the poorly balanced Warriors who have obvious best in slot skills like Healing Signet, Berserker Stance, Cleansing Ire etc.

Aza.2105:

So I’m assuming

Which was my point. People assume that it will be instant. Im not arguing against, just saying that its an assumption but being presented as facts. Its not a fact that its instant.

I think that assumption might backfire if we instead assume that this meditation follow the general rule of all other healing skills, namely casting time.

And i have read that the main reason for meditations turned instant was that the trait only affected a couple of meditations not that the meditations where inherently clunky. But it might be me, i never experienced them as clunky so i might have added my own assumption when reading those notes back in the day..

dont get me wrong, i hope they make it instant

SilkySmooth.1574:

+ you can see on gw2db that it doesnt have a casting time

I can only see that it has 30 sec cd. That it has no casting time based on third party data mining is an assumption.

if i remember correctly none of the new healing skills have casttime on gw2db.

EDIT: just checked and none of them has casting time on gw2db Sidenote is that shelter doesn’t have casting time either on gw2db.

I’m not sure if casting time would make sense – let me say this differently – would feel intuitive. I would have to watch the cast and then attack to get the heal.

I think it would flow nicer as an instant skill.

But heh, we’ll see next week.

Brutaly.6257:

Yet an other buff to a trait line that dont need a buff.

Im disappointed, i think this just makes the balance of zeal, radiance and condition builds even more difficult.

Yeah, I said earlier in this thread that I didn’t understand this either. The Valor line is great as is. No need for this skill to be Med.

Brutaly.6257:

Bash.7291:

Move meditation Traits to Zeal, lower AH healing, We now have an offensive heal based in an offensive line, and if people really want they can pick up AH, but as a med build really isn’t that effective anyways.

I agree with moving medi to zeal. It would be a very wise choice indeed.

What i would like is a fourth virtue for a weaker version of AH when passive and AH for the entire team for x sec when activated and the master trait in valor should boost that AH effect. This would move more support into valor which it lacks atm.

This would also improve our virtues greatly and untraited virtues are really weak atm.

Don’t agree with moving Meds to Zeal.

However, I think the 4th Virtue idea is a great! This could also remove the dependency on some builds that want to utilize AH from the Valor line, and help strength the sustain with those that remain in 30 Valor. However, not so sure about putting it the master trait for it in Valor. Maybe it would be good for the 5 Honor since they’re about to either move it or nerf it.

Kumu Honua.2751:

I want a shout heal “Get over it!”

LOL!

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Brutaly.6257:

Yet an other buff to a trait line that dont need a buff.

Im disappointed, i think this just makes the balance of zeal, radiance and condition builds even more difficult.

Yeah, I said earlier in this thread that I didn’t understand this either. The Valor line is great as is. No need for this skill to be Med.

Brutaly.6257:

Bash.7291:

Move meditation Traits to Zeal, lower AH healing, We now have an offensive heal based in an offensive line, and if people really want they can pick up AH, but as a med build really isn’t that effective anyways.

I agree with moving medi to zeal. It would be a very wise choice indeed.

What i would like is a fourth virtue for a weaker version of AH when passive and AH for the entire team for x sec when activated and the master trait in valor should boost that AH effect. This would move more support into valor which it lacks atm.

This would also improve our virtues greatly and untraited virtues are really weak atm.

Don’t agree with remove Med to Zeal.

However, I think the 4th Virtue idea is a great! This could also remove the dependency on some builds that want to utilize AH from the Valor line, and help strength the sustain with those that remain in 30 Valor. However, not so sure about putting it the master trait for it in Valor. Maybe it would be good for the 5 Honor since they’re about to either move it or nerf it.

Kumu Honua.2751:

I want a shout heal “Get over it!”

LOL!

Well Zeal already has its niche, its spirit weapons. Unfortunately spirit weapons are bad.

Ludus Rex.1562:

30s? kitten it. I’d have killed for a slightly weaker version on a 20s or 25s timer.

what you dont realise is with the -20% cooldown in meditation this thing is likely to have about 25 second CD.. worse yet its a meditation so it will ALSO provide the healing from the 30 PT healing meditation trait. I think my 40 second healing signet is good for garbage now (laugh)

Withdraw has no cast time.

The precedent is already set.

30 second that moves to 25 when traited gives fury for 4 second and adds an additionnal 2k+ heal to the boot? You kidding me this spell is downright the best meditation build heal ever, i want that on my GS guardian.

I am reserving judgement until I get a chance to try it but as someone that plays about 99% pvp at first blush I am not really that impressed. Five seconds of healing damage you do good luck landing a whirling wrath half the time in pvp with all the dodges. It will be a skill easy to waste imo.

Aza.2105:

Bash.7291:

It would still be a good trait line? Not sure why you ask that.

Not really, meditations are the best thing about it lol.

extra group toughness, Toughness to crit, mace damage/healing power, burn on block, AH, Purity. There are still plenty of decent traits to choose from… I would much rather our zeal line be usable…

Aza.2105:

Well Zeal already has its niche, its spirit weapons. Unfortunately spirit weapons are bad.

I would agree, if it didn’t take 30 points in other trait lines to actually bring spirit weapons up to full speed, which still sucks.

oh! it is a meditation?! Then I cant wait to use it, Im already running a triple meditation build so this cant hurt! Is it instant?!

Yeah this was designed for medi builds, so it needs to compensate 2k heal

shelter heal 75 (as far as i remember without healing power its about 5k)
Littany of wrath heal 80 (about 5k but will likely reach 8k+ with the meditation bonus)

considering this is an instant cast likely usable even when knocked down or stunned with a cooldown of 30 (downable to 25) and with a healing increase of 2k+ from a trait (makes this thing heal somewhat close to the signet of mercy) can you explain me how in hell litany of wrath by its very base wont be a healing machine spell? In all due respect as long as a player is fully traited to medit it will be superior to shelter and signet in all way save for the 3 second invulnerablity wich i tbh couldnt care less about save for pvp when i try not to die from a zerg in order to buy time. This healing spell will just be to awesome for pve dungeons. Altrought i guess this doesnt encourage new guardians to spec for shouts or consecrations. less of all support.

Bash.7291:

Aza.2105:

Bash.7291:

It would still be a good trait line? Not sure why you ask that.

Not really, meditations are the best thing about it lol.

extra group toughness, Toughness to crit, mace damage/healing power, burn on block, AH, Purity. There are still plenty of decent traits to choose from… I would much rather our zeal line be usable…

Yea but they are all adept traits, except mace. There is no denying they are decent.

I feel if spirit weapons became viable, zeal would start to become a bit better. They would also need to consolidate the two rogue spirit weapon traits (virtues and radiance) into the zeal tree.

BTW – 4 meditation build should be able to generate 38 seconds of fury a minute without boon duration bonuses ( +60% boon duration would be necessary to have perma-fury )

I found this via reddit, but in game it appears to heal for 20% of damage done and lasts for 5s.

[&B6BUAAA=]

In PvE I can see this being very, very powerful, barring any “ICD” on the function of the heal. That’d be without any traits for meditations too. I can see using this in some situations, however, Shelter’s block is hard to lose. With meditation traits, I can see this heal being awesome. Too bad all the meditation traits are in the Valor trait line and no dps build will use them (assuming no massive changes come with this patch.)

Ah so Bash was right, it does have a cast time!

The base heal seems to be around 1.7k. So you really do need to trait meds.

Too unreliable for pvp.
Valor sucks for pve.

Trash.

The new heal isn’t even affected by mediation traits afaik.

Mightymealworm.8409:

New shout: “I’ve had Enough!” Guardian instantly defeats himself spreading health and boons to nearby allies, who contue on as if he was never there.

This is a great counter-balace to the new warrior shout: “Give me that!” warrior reaches out and consumes all of his foes remaining health and boons, leaving them too weak to be revived for 15 min.

But seriously, I have idea what skill we will get. 2 out of 3 of ours are pretty good already.

HAHAHA, I seriously imagined my asura guard says “I’ve had enough” then pass out when I read this. this just made my day.

I agree that the temptation in PvP will be to run this with 4 meditations, but smart money is probably still on 3 meditations. One of the utility slots of the longer cycling meditations should probably be Stand Your Ground, so that when the pressure is really on, you can make sure you deliver the pain with Litany.

I’m thinking 10/30/30. The 10 is for the extra power, and 10% damage on when enemy is burning. Now, imagine you’re going to burst you foe into oblivion a few seconds into the fight, you’re going to want to hit Litany for Fury and Sustain, Stand Your Ground so that you can’t be stopped, and Judge’s Intervention to get in and ignite your foe for the damage bump. I think that making sure you don’t get feared off or stunned at a critical moment is going to be more valuable than the 4th meditation.

Aza.2105:

Ah so Bash was right, it does have a cast time!

Wasn’t me that said it lol.

Harbinger.8637:

The base heal seems to be around 1.7k. So you really do need to trait meds.

If this and the 20% heal per hit for 5 seconds is true, Shelter and Signet are still going to be better. Lower that CD, then, we might be talking up to par to them.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Harbinger.8637:

The base heal seems to be around 1.7k. So you really do need to trait meds.

If this and the 20% heal per hit for 5 seconds is true, Shelter and Signet are still going to be better. Lower that CD, then, we might be talking up to par to them.

Actually it’s less then that. About 1.5k, this time I did it with zero healing power. Here’s a screen.

SilkySmooth.1574:

+ you can see on gw2db that it doesnt have a casting time

Because datamining is 100% accurate? ;3
There’s plenty of time for changes to be made.

I’d probably use the heal if it were instant. The healing isn’t worth the 1 sec cast in my opinion.

Bash.7291:

Aza.2105:

Ah so Bash was right, it does have a cast time!

Wasn’t me that said it lol.

lol my bad, I meant Brutality.

Assumptions killed the cat. ;-) I wasnt right. I just didnt make the assumption that it was instant, i didnt make the assumption it had a casting time either.

Sorry for pointing out the possibility for it to have a casting time but hopefully some people read it and it lowered their expectations so we get less whining.

On a serious note, totally useless skill unless you land a focus/mb burst or lay down the smack with symbol bombing on a crowd while having it active.

The pve guys should rejoice, they got the second best thing after sliced bread. The rest of us can go back to shelter.

Might have some use in zergs but a coordinated chain/mb heals for over 1600-2200 alone with AH in zerg clashes so i dont see why you should go medi at all. And in zergs shelter is just to good.

We don’t know how it will function in relation to traits. Perhaps the behavior of “inactive” skills is that they do not consider traits when displaying their tooltips. We’ll be able to see how it actually behaves when it goes live. That said, we have to assume – if it is a meditation – that it will be affected by the traits.

Harbinger.8637:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Harbinger.8637:

The base heal seems to be around 1.7k. So you really do need to trait meds.

If this and the 20% heal per hit for 5 seconds is true, Shelter and Signet are still going to be better. Lower that CD, then, we might be talking up to par to them.

Actually it’s less then that. About 1.5k, this time I did it with zero healing power. Here’s a screen.

I think the tooltip scales with level and you are down leveled. i got 96 at level 5 and 1708 at level 80.

Brutaly.6257:

Bash.7291:

Move meditation Traits to Zeal, lower AH healing, We now have an offensive heal based in an offensive line, and if people really want they can pick up AH, but as a med build really isn’t that effective anyways.

I agree with moving medi to zeal. It would be a very wise choice indeed.

What i would like is a fourth virtue for a weaker version of AH when passive and AH for the entire team for x sec when activated and the master trait in valor should boost that AH effect. This would move more support into valor which it lacks atm.

This would make 30/x/30/x/x the best burst build (toughness is needed in tpvp and wvw so it only makes sense valor and zeal is the burst since burst is the best form of damage in pvp. It would also make meditations heals available while using AH. I think this would put zeal in a much better shape and full berserker, full offense builds viable in wvw.

This would also improve our virtues greatly and untraited virtues are really weak atm.

The 5 sec duration to the buff is just too low. I think we’d be able to get one or two skills off before its gone. Probably not worth it.

Plus, guardian has no way to stick on the target. So it will be even more useless when we get kited.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fdulfy.net%2F2013%2F12%2F05%2Fgw2-new-healing-skills-for-next-patch%2F

Dulfy gets early access to the patches, so pretty sure that’s accurate. Yes, it has a cast time.

Seems like it’ll be very much reliant on Meditation skills to be good. The base heal is pretty terrible without.

20% outgoing damage is pretty decent, though. I wonder if it factors in condition damage as well?