Scrubbiest Necro NA.
New heal that magnifies problems with Guards
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If someone sees us CASTING our meditation, they run from us. Since we don’t have any soft CC…they get away and we have a useless heal.
Please, please, please, get off this idea of Guards ‘holding points’ and letting people get away from us. Its gotten old and there are many problems with the Guard. Fix it quickly.
This change in no way “magnifies problems”. First of all you don’t need to take the heal if you don’t like it.
Secondly you are talking from purely a pvp/wvw perspective, and ignored pve applications.
This skill is very good for meditation guards in pve since it is a meditation and will trigger additional heal and fury as well as very good sustain against multiple mobs due to the life gain on damage.
If you run meditations anywhere but open world… i just…
You can run meditations anywhere. Most roaming guard builds are meditation based. And I’ve already stated before, the heal is not required. You can use whatever heal you were using before so this whole post about how the new heal “magnifies” problems makes no sense.
The heal magnifies the problem because in order to get the most use out of the heal you have to do damage. In order to do damage you need to be on your target. In a pvp environment where people don’t come running at you and stand there for you to bludgeon them so you can heal you need to have good gap closers and good snares…
Guards have a laughable amount of either. You can not have a class with only one legitimate and very predictable ranged weapon, have terrible gap closers.
As for those dismissing med guards in pve, bads with no imagination will always be bads with no imagination.
This thread is about the heal so why woudn’t i mention the heal? Also if you use meditations in pve content such as dungeons fractals or world boss fights…. You are possibly the most selfish guardian in the game… Meditations are great for DPS pvp, open world pve, solo wvw. Thats it. Using it in zergs, dungeons, boss fights etc… There are so many great and “imaginative” builds that use other things besides meditations because they provide group support something meditations completely lack.
You can successfully run meditations in any aspect of the game. I’ve ran mediations exclusively for awhile with my static group just to test viability and if it affected my group. It did not.
Then you had someone else providing all the reflects? In things such as dungeons Meditations are completely lacking group synergy…. No fire fields which means less might, no reflects at all… No party wide boons, no stability, no group condition clear….
Viability=/=optimal…. While meditations are great in theory. In group play such as dungeons they are eh…
Saying meditations are great in all aspects of the game is like saying I am going to run clerics in every aspect of the game just because I know its viable.
Would you like to trade them for a Necro’s Corruptions? Or maybe trade heal skills with Signet of Vampirism?
Necro corruptions are one of those things that is actually very strong in a pvp environment but not so much in a pve environment. And the new necro signet I can’t comment on because I don’t have a necro that I play regularly. I can’t see it being too amazing though… But this is about how guardians new heal skill shows just how hard it is to make effective use of that heal skill because it requires you to stick on your target…. which guardians aren’t great at.
The guards that have used them almost never switched the skills for the appropriate fights, had no blast finishers, no team buffs, nada. At high level fractals the last thing that is useful is a meditation guardian. They are on par with the five signet warriors.
This is your problem, associative thinking. You are applying your experience to every meditation guard that might exist in pve. Every meditation guard won’t have blast finishers, every meditation guard won’t switch out skills, every meditation guard won’t have team buffs etc. You see what I’m saying?
Your past experience is causing you to apply this to everyone. And that is just wrong. Which is why I told you in my prior post to you, your experience is simply limited to you.
If you were saying meditations won’t work in pvp, I probably would agree with you. Pvp is dynamic, but when you talk about dungeons….dungeons. Everything is scripted, the exact same thing each time.
Which is funny because in a PvP such as tPvP an offensive meditation guard is quite a force…. In PvE they don’t do much for the entire group which is the point.
A meditation hammer guardian can still provide different types of support:
- Hammer providing symbols granting protection, retaliation, condition removal (projectile finishers are common) and skill 2 for blast finisher.
- You still have plenty of trait points left. You can put 15 points in Radiance for constant blinds and might spam. Or 20 points in Virtues for even more condition removal or stability, and consecration trait for the wall of reflection once in a while.
I am somewhat disappointed how people keep labeling meditation builds as selfish while in my opinion the majority of the guardian’s group utilities are a joke if we want to believe the current ‘berserker culture’. Does the entire PvE group need more defensive guardian utilities when everyone is already playing fully offensive?
If someone sees us CASTING our meditation, they run from us. Since we don’t have any soft CC…they get away and we have a useless heal.
Please, please, please, get off this idea of Guards ‘holding points’ and letting people get away from us. Its gotten old and there are many problems with the Guard. Fix it quickly.
This change in no way “magnifies problems”. First of all you don’t need to take the heal if you don’t like it.
Secondly you are talking from purely a pvp/wvw perspective, and ignored pve applications.
This skill is very good for meditation guards in pve since it is a meditation and will trigger additional heal and fury as well as very good sustain against multiple mobs due to the life gain on damage.
If you run meditations anywhere but open world… i just…
You can run meditations anywhere. Most roaming guard builds are meditation based. And I’ve already stated before, the heal is not required. You can use whatever heal you were using before so this whole post about how the new heal “magnifies” problems makes no sense.
The heal magnifies the problem because in order to get the most use out of the heal you have to do damage. In order to do damage you need to be on your target. In a pvp environment where people don’t come running at you and stand there for you to bludgeon them so you can heal you need to have good gap closers and good snares…
Guards have a laughable amount of either. You can not have a class with only one legitimate and very predictable ranged weapon, have terrible gap closers.
As for those dismissing med guards in pve, bads with no imagination will always be bads with no imagination.
This thread is about the heal so why woudn’t i mention the heal? Also if you use meditations in pve content such as dungeons fractals or world boss fights…. You are possibly the most selfish guardian in the game… Meditations are great for DPS pvp, open world pve, solo wvw. Thats it. Using it in zergs, dungeons, boss fights etc… There are so many great and “imaginative” builds that use other things besides meditations because they provide group support something meditations completely lack.
You can successfully run meditations in any aspect of the game. I’ve ran mediations exclusively for awhile with my static group just to test viability and if it affected my group. It did not.
Then you had someone else providing all the reflects? In things such as dungeons Meditations are completely lacking group synergy…. No fire fields which means less might, no reflects at all… No party wide boons, no stability, no group condition clear….
Viability=/=optimal…. While meditations are great in theory. In group play such as dungeons they are eh…
Saying meditations are great in all aspects of the game is like saying I am going to run clerics in every aspect of the game just because I know its viable.
Would you like to trade them for a Necro’s Corruptions? Or maybe trade heal skills with Signet of Vampirism?
Necro corruptions are one of those things that is actually very strong in a pvp environment but not so much in a pve environment. And the new necro signet I can’t comment on because I don’t have a necro that I play regularly. I can’t see it being too amazing though… But this is about how guardians new heal skill shows just how hard it is to make effective use of that heal skill because it requires you to stick on your target…. which guardians aren’t great at.
Which is why dps guardians aren’t effective in pvp. I’m not even sure why you suggested that offensive guardians are powerful, because they are not. There is a saying, if you can’t hit you can’t crit which means you aren’t doing damage. With no soft cc or mobility, guardian isn’t close to being viable in spvp.
Amd Ryzen 1800x – Amd Fury X -64GB of ram
Windows 10
Windows 10
If someone sees us CASTING our meditation, they run from us. Since we don’t have any soft CC…they get away and we have a useless heal.
Please, please, please, get off this idea of Guards ‘holding points’ and letting people get away from us. Its gotten old and there are many problems with the Guard. Fix it quickly.
This change in no way “magnifies problems”. First of all you don’t need to take the heal if you don’t like it.
Secondly you are talking from purely a pvp/wvw perspective, and ignored pve applications.
This skill is very good for meditation guards in pve since it is a meditation and will trigger additional heal and fury as well as very good sustain against multiple mobs due to the life gain on damage.
If you run meditations anywhere but open world… i just…
You can run meditations anywhere. Most roaming guard builds are meditation based. And I’ve already stated before, the heal is not required. You can use whatever heal you were using before so this whole post about how the new heal “magnifies” problems makes no sense.
The heal magnifies the problem because in order to get the most use out of the heal you have to do damage. In order to do damage you need to be on your target. In a pvp environment where people don’t come running at you and stand there for you to bludgeon them so you can heal you need to have good gap closers and good snares…
Guards have a laughable amount of either. You can not have a class with only one legitimate and very predictable ranged weapon, have terrible gap closers.
As for those dismissing med guards in pve, bads with no imagination will always be bads with no imagination.
This thread is about the heal so why woudn’t i mention the heal? Also if you use meditations in pve content such as dungeons fractals or world boss fights…. You are possibly the most selfish guardian in the game… Meditations are great for DPS pvp, open world pve, solo wvw. Thats it. Using it in zergs, dungeons, boss fights etc… There are so many great and “imaginative” builds that use other things besides meditations because they provide group support something meditations completely lack.
You can successfully run meditations in any aspect of the game. I’ve ran mediations exclusively for awhile with my static group just to test viability and if it affected my group. It did not.
Then you had someone else providing all the reflects? In things such as dungeons Meditations are completely lacking group synergy…. No fire fields which means less might, no reflects at all… No party wide boons, no stability, no group condition clear….
Viability=/=optimal…. While meditations are great in theory. In group play such as dungeons they are eh…
Saying meditations are great in all aspects of the game is like saying I am going to run clerics in every aspect of the game just because I know its viable.
Would you like to trade them for a Necro’s Corruptions? Or maybe trade heal skills with Signet of Vampirism?
Necro corruptions are one of those things that is actually very strong in a pvp environment but not so much in a pve environment. And the new necro signet I can’t comment on because I don’t have a necro that I play regularly. I can’t see it being too amazing though… But this is about how guardians new heal skill shows just how hard it is to make effective use of that heal skill because it requires you to stick on your target…. which guardians aren’t great at.
Which is why dps guardians aren’t effective in pvp. I’m not even sure why you suggested that offensive guardians are powerful, because they are not. There is a saying, if you can’t hit you can’t crit which means you aren’t doing damage. With no soft cc or mobility, guardian isn’t close to being viable in spvp.
In tPvP where you HAVE to be on the point to be scoring it makes it so the DPS guardian doesn’t need very much CC. There is a vast difference between the hotjoin hero environment and tourneys.
If someone sees us CASTING our meditation, they run from us. Since we don’t have any soft CC…they get away and we have a useless heal.
Please, please, please, get off this idea of Guards ‘holding points’ and letting people get away from us. Its gotten old and there are many problems with the Guard. Fix it quickly.
This change in no way “magnifies problems”. First of all you don’t need to take the heal if you don’t like it.
Secondly you are talking from purely a pvp/wvw perspective, and ignored pve applications.
This skill is very good for meditation guards in pve since it is a meditation and will trigger additional heal and fury as well as very good sustain against multiple mobs due to the life gain on damage.
If you run meditations anywhere but open world… i just…
You can run meditations anywhere. Most roaming guard builds are meditation based. And I’ve already stated before, the heal is not required. You can use whatever heal you were using before so this whole post about how the new heal “magnifies” problems makes no sense.
The heal magnifies the problem because in order to get the most use out of the heal you have to do damage. In order to do damage you need to be on your target. In a pvp environment where people don’t come running at you and stand there for you to bludgeon them so you can heal you need to have good gap closers and good snares…
Guards have a laughable amount of either. You can not have a class with only one legitimate and very predictable ranged weapon, have terrible gap closers.
As for those dismissing med guards in pve, bads with no imagination will always be bads with no imagination.
This thread is about the heal so why woudn’t i mention the heal? Also if you use meditations in pve content such as dungeons fractals or world boss fights…. You are possibly the most selfish guardian in the game… Meditations are great for DPS pvp, open world pve, solo wvw. Thats it. Using it in zergs, dungeons, boss fights etc… There are so many great and “imaginative” builds that use other things besides meditations because they provide group support something meditations completely lack.
You can successfully run meditations in any aspect of the game. I’ve ran mediations exclusively for awhile with my static group just to test viability and if it affected my group. It did not.
Then you had someone else providing all the reflects? In things such as dungeons Meditations are completely lacking group synergy…. No fire fields which means less might, no reflects at all… No party wide boons, no stability, no group condition clear….
Viability=/=optimal…. While meditations are great in theory. In group play such as dungeons they are eh…
Saying meditations are great in all aspects of the game is like saying I am going to run clerics in every aspect of the game just because I know its viable.
Would you like to trade them for a Necro’s Corruptions? Or maybe trade heal skills with Signet of Vampirism?
Necro corruptions are one of those things that is actually very strong in a pvp environment but not so much in a pve environment. And the new necro signet I can’t comment on because I don’t have a necro that I play regularly. I can’t see it being too amazing though… But this is about how guardians new heal skill shows just how hard it is to make effective use of that heal skill because it requires you to stick on your target…. which guardians aren’t great at.
Which is why dps guardians aren’t effective in pvp. I’m not even sure why you suggested that offensive guardians are powerful, because they are not. There is a saying, if you can’t hit you can’t crit which means you aren’t doing damage. With no soft cc or mobility, guardian isn’t close to being viable in spvp.
In tPvP where you HAVE to be on the point to be scoring it makes it so the DPS guardian doesn’t need very much CC. There is a vast difference between the hotjoin hero environment and tourneys.
It matters a ton.
Amd Ryzen 1800x – Amd Fury X -64GB of ram
Windows 10
Windows 10
i think jportell meant having the CC to chase people down, which is what many Guards have identified as a core issue for this melee class that IS supposed to, according to the devs, get in a fight and can’t get out, win or lose. so in that sense, in tPvP in this example, it’s not as much as an issue because you won’t be having to chase people down. as people will come to you.
not saying it’s 100% guaranteed to work everytime though, but the need to ways to “stick to your enemies” isn’t as great as say in WvW.
and that’s not to say that hard CC or soft CC, even on point, is not needed or desired.
and to add on, i really only have a Guardian in this entire game. even for the past year and a half. and i love playing my Guard in PvP. i can’t say that i’ve been in situations where i’m like “o gosh i was i was on my ele in that fight just now.” or “ha, if i was on my thief!!! you’d!!!” but simply because i donno the other classes. that being said, is till immensely enjoy my Guard. i am by no means a player above average even but i wouldn’t say that are far from being viable at all in sPvP.
back on track.. i have something to confess guys. i did not walk my talk this time. i still haven’t picked up the new heal skill. :/// even if to try it out. i know SPs come easy, but it’s the fact that the more i thought about the skill, EVEN if i can make it work… personally, to me, it won’t be as valuable as Shelter or SoR. :PPP
Akaimon | Jolly Good Guardian
Akaigi | Warrior Made of Wood
[CDS] – Sanctum of Rall
Akaigi | Warrior Made of Wood
[CDS] – Sanctum of Rall
This thread is about the heal so why woudn’t i mention the heal? Also if you use meditations in pve content such as dungeons fractals or world boss fights…. You are possibly the most selfish guardian in the game… Meditations are great for DPS pvp, open world pve, solo wvw. Thats it. Using it in zergs, dungeons, boss fights etc… There are so many great and “imaginative” builds that use other things besides meditations because they provide group support something meditations completely lack.
It’s irrelevant that you don’t want to comment on pve. The topic does not make that distinction so I commented on it. Also, I’ve already stated this numerous times. The heal is an addendum, and therefore you can choose not to use it if it doesn’t work for you. Therefore it in no way magnifies any problems.
The most useful aspects of the guardian is in the reflects, blinds, and virtues and those are in tact in any meditation build and one of the meditations can be swapped out for consecration or stand your ground for specific encounters that require stability so your statements regarding meditation group play is invalid.
(edited by DeathPanel.8362)
This thread is about the heal so why woudn’t i mention the heal? Also if you use meditations in pve content such as dungeons fractals or world boss fights…. You are possibly the most selfish guardian in the game… Meditations are great for DPS pvp, open world pve, solo wvw. Thats it. Using it in zergs, dungeons, boss fights etc… There are so many great and “imaginative” builds that use other things besides meditations because they provide group support something meditations completely lack.
It’s irrelevant that you don’t want to comment on pve. The topic does not make that distinction so I commented on it. Also, I’ve already stated this numerous times. The heal is an addendum, and therefore you can choose not to use it if it doesn’t work for you. Therefore it in no way magnifies any problems.
The most useful aspects of the guardian is in the reflects, blinds, and virtues and those are in tact in any meditation build and one of the meditations can be swapped out for consecration or stand your ground for specific encounters that require stability so your statements regarding meditation group play is invalid.
Because in Pve yes this heal can be useful with mobs that don’t run away from you. In tPvP it can be somewhat useful since it is all about capping the points. In wvw it is utterly useless…
Also while a meditation spec can “bring” all those things… The wasted 30 trait points spent going into meditations is what kills your group support. They bring no vulnerability (symbols/blinds), No damage modifiers (compared to 25 in any other line besides valor), and no condi removal from the virtues (because if you use meditations chances are you won’t go more than 10 into virtues).
You can’t sit and tell me that you run a full meditation build that brings all the other stuff that a build like 10/25/0/5/25 or any other variation brings… There is a reason the “best” guard builds for pve stay away from valor… Because aside from strength in numbers it is generally useless for pve. In pvp that is another story entirely.
This thread is about the heal so why woudn’t i mention the heal? Also if you use meditations in pve content such as dungeons fractals or world boss fights…. You are possibly the most selfish guardian in the game… Meditations are great for DPS pvp, open world pve, solo wvw. Thats it. Using it in zergs, dungeons, boss fights etc… There are so many great and “imaginative” builds that use other things besides meditations because they provide group support something meditations completely lack.
It’s irrelevant that you don’t want to comment on pve. The topic does not make that distinction so I commented on it. Also, I’ve already stated this numerous times. The heal is an addendum, and therefore you can choose not to use it if it doesn’t work for you. Therefore it in no way magnifies any problems.
The most useful aspects of the guardian is in the reflects, blinds, and virtues and those are in tact in any meditation build and one of the meditations can be swapped out for consecration or stand your ground for specific encounters that require stability so your statements regarding meditation group play is invalid.
Because in Pve yes this heal can be useful with mobs that don’t run away from you. In tPvP it can be somewhat useful since it is all about capping the points. In wvw it is utterly useless…
Also while a meditation spec can “bring” all those things… The wasted 30 trait points spent going into meditations is what kills your group support. They bring no vulnerability (symbols/blinds), No damage modifiers (compared to 25 in any other line besides valor), and no condi removal from the virtues (because if you use meditations chances are you won’t go more than 10 into virtues).
You can’t sit and tell me that you run a full meditation build that brings all the other stuff that a build like 10/25/0/5/25 or any other variation brings… There is a reason the “best” guard builds for pve stay away from valor… Because aside from strength in numbers it is generally useless for pve. In pvp that is another story entirely.
If you know dungeons are ez mode, then why do you persist in trying to debate what is the optimal build is to run them? Its a oxymoron.
Amd Ryzen 1800x – Amd Fury X -64GB of ram
Windows 10
Windows 10
This thread is about the heal so why woudn’t i mention the heal? Also if you use meditations in pve content such as dungeons fractals or world boss fights…. You are possibly the most selfish guardian in the game… Meditations are great for DPS pvp, open world pve, solo wvw. Thats it. Using it in zergs, dungeons, boss fights etc… There are so many great and “imaginative” builds that use other things besides meditations because they provide group support something meditations completely lack.
It’s irrelevant that you don’t want to comment on pve. The topic does not make that distinction so I commented on it. Also, I’ve already stated this numerous times. The heal is an addendum, and therefore you can choose not to use it if it doesn’t work for you. Therefore it in no way magnifies any problems.
The most useful aspects of the guardian is in the reflects, blinds, and virtues and those are in tact in any meditation build and one of the meditations can be swapped out for consecration or stand your ground for specific encounters that require stability so your statements regarding meditation group play is invalid.
Because in Pve yes this heal can be useful with mobs that don’t run away from you. In tPvP it can be somewhat useful since it is all about capping the points. In wvw it is utterly useless…
Also while a meditation spec can “bring” all those things… The wasted 30 trait points spent going into meditations is what kills your group support. They bring no vulnerability (symbols/blinds), No damage modifiers (compared to 25 in any other line besides valor), and no condi removal from the virtues (because if you use meditations chances are you won’t go more than 10 into virtues).
You can’t sit and tell me that you run a full meditation build that brings all the other stuff that a build like 10/25/0/5/25 or any other variation brings… There is a reason the “best” guard builds for pve stay away from valor… Because aside from strength in numbers it is generally useless for pve. In pvp that is another story entirely.
I’d like to see the numbers comparing the build you’re mentioning (vulnerability/damage modifiers), with the meditation build which allows you to have constant fury up. I’m currently leaning towards the fury, but I could be wrong.
Because in Pve yes this heal can be useful with mobs that don’t run away from you. In tPvP it can be somewhat useful since it is all about capping the points. In wvw it is utterly useless…
So you dismiss the skill SOLELY based on lack of wvw applications when you admit yourself that it has a role in pvp and pve? Tunnel vision much?
This thread is about the heal so why woudn’t i mention the heal? Also if you use meditations in pve content such as dungeons fractals or world boss fights…. You are possibly the most selfish guardian in the game… Meditations are great for DPS pvp, open world pve, solo wvw. Thats it. Using it in zergs, dungeons, boss fights etc… There are so many great and “imaginative” builds that use other things besides meditations because they provide group support something meditations completely lack.
It’s irrelevant that you don’t want to comment on pve. The topic does not make that distinction so I commented on it. Also, I’ve already stated this numerous times. The heal is an addendum, and therefore you can choose not to use it if it doesn’t work for you. Therefore it in no way magnifies any problems.
The most useful aspects of the guardian is in the reflects, blinds, and virtues and those are in tact in any meditation build and one of the meditations can be swapped out for consecration or stand your ground for specific encounters that require stability so your statements regarding meditation group play is invalid.
I believe when the OP says “magnifies” problems with the guardian he means that it brings attention to the problems. Not that it makes them worse. Can we move on now? Neither of you are listening to each other.
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