Guild Wars 2

1) They put +33% burning damage on Zeal (Amplified Wrath), and we can think about they’re making of the condition guardian a useless viable build. (still useless compared whit the other condition damage classes). If they put a trait that make you inflict bleeding when you inflict Burning, it will be the best to make us be good to inflict condition damage. But 33% more burn damage don’t make us competitive condition damage dealer.

2) They put retalation that scale whit condition damage instead of power on Radiance, and we can think about a defensive condition build chained whit Virtue traits to obtain retalation by virtues (if you don’t take retalation by virtues you can only take it by shouts or leap combo whit GS). But it’s still a bad condition damage dealer class.

3) They put Communal Defence on Valor, and I think it’s useless compared whit Altruistic Healing, but it’s what I think. It’s a good trait, but not the best the can make. One more aegis when block every 20 sec can be good, but if you combine Altruistic healing whit Empowering Might (trait VIII on Honor line) your heal yourself by 360 per second just hitting the enemy, and if you add the staff skill Empower you heal 1/2 or 1/3 of your hp in 2.5 sec.

4) They put Force of Will on Honor line, that increase your Vitality by 300, giving around 3000 hp. That amount of hp can make you think to be good to increase our chances to fight condition damage, or to make dps live longer, but to obtain that trait you need to spent 30 trait points on a defensive trait line and a DPS don’t do that, and if you want to fight condition damage you must chose to 3000 more hp or Pure of Voice, that clean 1 condition whit shouts (2 if combined whit Soldier Rune). And to fight condition damage I prefer Pure of Voice, than 3000 more hp. A good condiiton damage dealer can inflict 1800 condition damage per second. Whit 3000 more hp you can survive 2 seconds more… and I prefer to clean away conditions and reduce to 0 the damage than increase my hp by 3000 ans curvive 2 seconds more.

5) Resolve’s passive effects increase endurance regeneration by 15%. What do I need to write about that? It’s the useless. Why you need to spent 30 trait points in one of the useless trait line ever to obtain 15% more endurance regeneration? It don’t regenerate 15% of yout endurance every 3 sec, it only increase our base endurance regeneration rate. (if it restore 15% endurance every 3 sec, it can be good combined whit vigor, making you restore 45% endurance in 3 sec, but it don’t do that and is useless if you need to spent 30 points in Virtues to obtain it).

They try to give us 3 new things:

1) Condition Damage Build.
Total fail because we can apply burn to the enemy and make it burn for 1 hour, but to inflict 900 condition damage x second you need to spent all your traits to do that and you’ve no more defensive ability like pure of voice and altruistic healing, two things that take the guardian alive while in combat.
All the other classes can give 1300-2000 condition damage x second, Guardian can only do 900-1000 and reduce it’s defensive ability to make it possible.

2) New Tank Build.
If you want give up Altruistic Healing, that provide you 360+ hp every time you give a boon to an ally (expecially good whit staff, empowering might, shouts and all the symbols) to obtain an AoE aegis every 20 when you block… that’s your choice, I never will.

3) More Condition Damage Resistance.
3000 more hp whit a new trait in honor to make you live longer against condition damage. Good… but you must chose between 3k more hp or shouts that clean conditions to you and you allies…

It’s only me or that trait don’t give us nothing really good to make new builds?
Condition can give more damage but it’s still a useless build, compared whit other classes, expecially in pve or wvsw; 3k more hp obtained whit a grand Master Trait don’t change our situation and an Aegis don’t save your kitten when in trouble better than 3000+ hp to you and 1800+ hp to allies obtained in 2.5 sec whit the Staff skill if you use Altruistic Healing and 360 hp every boon you give. It can be good in some situations, but I prefer Altruistic Healing, that work whit every boon I give, not only 20 sec and if I block an attack (trait good only if you use the bunker build mace+focus/shield, making you block a lot of attacks).

With improvement to Condi damage we deal with burning and the other condis we can deal up to 2k Condi damage per second. Our reapplication for burn is crazy and the only thing we dont have is cover condis.
Against classes with a lot of Condi removal, all we can do is use our reapplication skills. With burning now dealing 1k per sec, it hurts alot more if someone was to gets hit even if its just a second. With might stacks, that’s even more painful.

With regards to retal, i wouldn’t count it out. Until we know the scaling, that trait is a ticking timebomb.

With regards to Communal defences I think it being in the valor tree is a bad idea. The honour line would give it a higher consideration in PvE because everyone loves aegis. It would work in my condition damage build though so that’s a plus but i still think it should be moved to the Honour trait line and the Force of will should take its place in the Valor line.

Indeed only positive update was the 3k trait, even that it wont change much, guardian gameplay is all messed up, might change to warrior or elementalist.

The new traits do not worth invstement imo, hammer build with 2h sword for control and aoe will be always better than other weapon skills, hammergaed train will be even worse and more effective due low boon effect they are planning.

Guardian with low boon duration…

Silv.9207:

4) They put Force of Will on Honor line, that increase your Vitality by 300, giving around 3000 hp. That amount of hp can make you think to be good to increase our chances to fight condition damage, or to make dps live longer, but to obtain that trait you need to spent 30 trait points on a defensive trait line and a DPS don’t do that, and if you want to fight condition damage you must chose to 3000 more hp or Pure of Voice, that clean 1 condition whit shouts (2 if combined whit Soldier Rune). And to fight condition damage I prefer Pure of Voice, than 3000 more hp. A good condiiton damage dealer can inflict 1800 condition damage per second. Whit 3000 more hp you can survive 2 seconds more… and I prefer to clean away conditions and reduce to 0 the damage than increase my hp by 3000 ans curvive 2 seconds more.

I think that the trait may work very well in dps builds; usually those builds work around the use of 2-3 meditations, so probably you will not have the luxury to spent a skill slot in a shout to take advantage from Pure Of Voice, and the extra health can be very handly against burst builds. During the last month and half I was using a 10/10/30/20/0 triple meditation build in PvP and was fine, so I think that a X/X/30/30/0 can work.

The other new traits are bad, I agree.

Dirame.8521:

With improvement to Condi damage we deal with burning and the other condis we can deal up to 2k Condi damage per second. .

This is pants. My condinecro averages bleeds at almost 50% more than that, a burn just shy of 1k with 80% uptime, a poison of high 200’s and a wealth of other nerf/control conditions, occasional torment for extra condition DPS.

Guardian condition is flat out bad, even with these anticipated changes. I love mould breaking Guardian builds, but something more interesting than burning damage needs to be rolled in to make Guardians focus on burns. Like, make the guardian’s fire individual so it doesn’t get messed up by other fire stacks, and allows for 2 Burn Guards to benefit from the build in the same fight. And/or having that individual burn causing other traited effects, like healing the Guard/allies, or other special effects.

But ANet aren’t thinking along these lines for Guardian because they seem to think that, despite condition/SWeapons being useless for Guardian, that we’re just peachy. And we’re not. In a better place than most, but not so good that we don’t need shaken up a bit.

The 3k health trait is actually pretty good. I will run a 0/5/30/30/5 meditations build with full zerker or zerker/knight for WvW

dace.8019:

Dirame.8521:

With improvement to Condi damage we deal with burning and the other condis we can deal up to 2k Condi damage per second. .

This is pants. My condinecro averages bleeds at almost 50% more than that, a burn just shy of 1k with 80% uptime, a poison of high 200’s and a wealth of other nerf/control conditions, occasional torment for extra condition DPS.

Guardian condition is flat out bad, even with these anticipated changes. I love mould breaking Guardian builds, but something more interesting than burning damage needs to be rolled in to make Guardians focus on burns. Like, make the guardian’s fire individual so it doesn’t get messed up by other fire stacks, and allows for 2 Burn Guards to benefit from the build in the same fight. And/or having that individual burn causing other traited effects, like healing the Guard/allies, or other special effects.

But ANet aren’t thinking along these lines for Guardian because they seem to think that, despite condition/SWeapons being useless for Guardian, that we’re just peachy. And we’re not. In a better place than most, but so good that we don’t need shaken up a bit.

Where you and I differ is that I don’t take the Guardian and compare it to a class that is literally built to nuke people with condis. The guardian is a single target dps class most of the time and I can tell you for a fact that a condi guardian can down a Necro. The amount of Necros that have underestimated me when I play my condi guardian, it’s not even funny.

Dirame.8521:

Where you and I differ is that I don’t take the Guardian and compare it to a class that is literally built to nuke people with condis. The guardian is a single target dps class most of the time and I can tell you for a fact that a condi guardian can down a Necro. The amount of Necros that have underestimated me when I play my condi guardian, it’s not even funny.

It is right to compare. After all, these are the professions you’ll face off against, or compete for places in groups with, or whatever, in the category of role. Anybody can down an anything. I’ve seen naked people win 2v1s and up. I’m sure the worst build in the world has won occasionally.

But if you compare the numbers and one is found severely lacking? Mesmer condi does more damage than Guard. As does Warrior. And Engi. So, you want to be the profession with the awful, easily handled, eggs in one basket condition?

Don’t get me wrong. I want Guardians to have interesting Burn/Fire effects. Flames are a hallmark of the class. It’s the Condition system as it stands that breaks this discussion. I personally want Guardian Burn conditions to do something unique, or stack individually, immune to cleansing, or whatever.

So it’s not the condiGuard that is broken, it’s Conditions. Within that context though, the class simply under performs in the role of condition DPS. Bear in mind the classes designed to do alot of powerful conditions easily suffer under this system too, often underperforming or interfering with their own mechanics.

Silv.9207:

It’s only me or that trait don’t give us nothing really good to make new builds?

You actually listed some opportunities for new builds yourself. You quite obviously just don’t like them. The question would then be what you would have preferred instead?

Amplified Wrath
Although I’m a bit sceptical, it might find its use as damange increase to power or hybrids builds when not adding any conditions through runes and sigils (PvP and WvW roaming). This sets it apart from Kindled Zeal which works best in hybrid builds when adding other conditions. I don’t see it being an option for pure condition builds. But it is placed in the power line after all and we can get +100% burning duration without it.

Radiant Retaliation
We don’t know how well it scales yet. However, it actually is a very smart move of ANet to improve the damage of condition builds without simply adding new conditions to the Guardian. It should do well in PvP and WvW roaming. Probably the trait I like the most.

Communal Defense
You complain about it not being as good as AH and Monks Focus. You are right. But only in a solo context. It is a support trait. There would be no point in adding yet another self-centered grandmaster trait to this line. It should be extremly useful in PvE and maybe even for large scale WvW.

Force of Will
Basically the opposite of Communal Defense. So far Honor didn’t have a solo centered trait on the grandmaster level. While the trait is rather boring I can see people using it. Not everyone runs Shouts and Battle Presence is useless when solo.

Purity of Body
This actually is the only new Guardian trait I can’t find useful for any scenario. Even when picking Battle Presence +15% Endurance Regeneration is pretty useless especially when considering that it won’t work when combined with Vigor.

dace.8019:

Dirame.8521:

Where you and I differ is that I don’t take the Guardian and compare it to a class that is literally built to nuke people with condis. The guardian is a single target dps class most of the time and I can tell you for a fact that a condi guardian can down a Necro. The amount of Necros that have underestimated me when I play my condi guardian, it’s not even funny.

It is right to compare. After all, these are the professions you’ll face off against, or compete for places in groups with, or whatever, in the category of role. Anybody can down an anything. I’ve seen naked people win 2v1s and up. I’m sure the worst build in the world has won occasionally.

But if you compare the numbers and one is found severely lacking? Mesmer condi does more damage than Guard. As does Warrior. And Engi. So, you want to be the profession with the awful, easily handled, eggs in one basket condition?

Don’t get me wrong. I want Guardians to have interesting Burn/Fire effects. Flames are a hallmark of the class. It’s the Condition system as it stands that breaks this discussion. I personally want Guardian Burn conditions to do something unique, or stack individually, immune to cleansing, or whatever.

So it’s not the condiGuard that is broken, it’s Conditions. Within that context though, the class simply under performs in the role of condition DPS. Bear in mind the classes designed to do alot of powerful conditions easily suffer under this system too, often underperforming or interfering with their own mechanics.

When I look for a build, I look for the best build that THAT class can create, I don’t look for the best build in the game because that just leads to dissapointment.

I’ve played my build against a variety of players. When I say it works, I’m not saying that because I killed a few new players in hotjoin.

I know where the class excels when it comes to dps and I know where it falls short. I personally will not say no to more improvements to the condi guardian (such as cover condis like Torment) but I will also not say that it isn’t working right now especially for what the guardian is built for.

Melee hybrid burning build would be super fun, but it won’t happen because the only traits that really build for it are too high up the trees. Moreover, once you do invest that heavily into the tree’s, your healing is going to suck sweaty monkey balls.

Our traits are ~all over the fk’n map~ Anet. Fix this first. Stop giving us useless stuff… and honestly, it’s not that the items you’re putting out are useless, it’s jsut because of the pretense of our traits being all over the place that hold what you give us, back.

30/15/x/x/x – With GS + S/F. There’s enough cover there to let the burn work… but what next? Seriously… There’s not enough points for healing… we can go something like 30/15/0/5/20 and have some condi removal… but no sustain and no permeating wraith…. and no Retal = Condi..

Anet, you’re all over the map. Focus. Have some balls and make the changes. There’s more than enough condi removal in game to make this build not OP… but super fun to play in small roaming groups or PvP.

Amins.3710:

Melee hybrid burning build would be super fun, but it won’t happen because the only traits that really build for it are too high up the trees. Moreover, once you do invest that heavily into the tree’s, your healing is going to suck sweaty monkey balls.

Our traits are ~all over the fk’n map~ Anet. Fix this first. Stop giving us useless stuff… and honestly, it’s not that the items you’re putting out are useless, it’s jsut because of the pretense of our traits being all over the place that hold what you give us, back.

30/15/x/x/x – With GS + S/F. There’s enough cover there to let the burn work… but what next? Seriously… There’s not enough points for healing… we can go something like 30/15/0/5/20 and have some condi removal… but no sustain and no permeating wraith…. and no Retal = Condi..

Anet, you’re all over the map. Focus. Have some balls and make the changes. There’s more than enough condi removal in game to make this build not OP… but super fun to play in small roaming groups or PvP.

If you want to specc like that, you definitely leave no space for survivability. Just specc 30 points in valor and grab Monk’s Focus.

Dirame.8521:

Amins.3710:

Melee hybrid burning build would be super fun, but it won’t happen because the only traits that really build for it are too high up the trees.

If you want to specc like that, you definitely leave no space for survivability. Just specc 30 points in valor and grab Monk’s Focus.

And therein lies the issue not being addressed.

I just want to point out that 3k HP wont help much (if noticeable at all) against conditions. The problem is that condition ticks way too much, and is reapplied so fast.

Amins.3710:

Dirame.8521:

Amins.3710:

Melee hybrid burning build would be super fun, but it won’t happen because the only traits that really build for it are too high up the trees.

If you want to specc like that, you definitely leave no space for survivability. Just specc 30 points in valor and grab Monk’s Focus.

And therein lies the issue not being addressed.

Oh you don’t like the fact that we have to go into valor to get survivability? Well, you either do that or you go 30 points in virtues, grab Absolute reso and grab your lovely permeating heat. You get “okay” regen overtime.

Amins.3710:

30/15/x/x/x – With GS + S/F. There’s enough cover there to let the burn work… but what next? Seriously… There’s not enough points for healing… we can go something like 30/15/0/5/20 and have some condi removal… but no sustain and no permeating wraith…. and no Retal = Condi..

I think you’re trying to get too much at once.

I’m going to try two different trait spreads in PvP. Both with GS/Sw+Fc.

30/0/0/10/30 with Carrion (hybrid) . While I won’t get the Blind and Vulnerability on F1 it could still work. Zealous Blades, Focus and Hold the Line should provide at least some survivability. It will be easy to get 100% burn duration (Virtue of Justice = 2s 1,5k area burn) and the AAs will hit like a truck with the burn. If needed, sigils could add another condition as cover up for the burn but I don’t know if it is needed since it can be reapplied quite frequently (Sword AA, GS WW) and we also got a strong direct damage component. Yes, this build will be fragile. But it could still work.

0/30/0/10/30 with either Rabid or Settler (condition bunker). If the new Radiant trait turns out to be useful this set up should work quite well. Main damage sources will be burns and Retaliation. Shouts provide Retaliation and survivability. I can trigger a lot of Vulnerability as cover condition through blinds and consider getting a second condition through either sigils or runes. It should be painful to win against this build.

Xaylin.1860:

Amins.3710:

30/15/x/x/x – With GS + S/F. There’s enough cover there to let the burn work… but what next? Seriously… There’s not enough points for healing… we can go something like 30/15/0/5/20 and have some condi removal… but no sustain and no permeating wraith…. and no Retal = Condi..

I think you’re trying to get too much at once.

I’m going to try two different trait spreads in PvP. Both with GS/Sw+Fc.

30/0/0/10/30 with Carrion (hybrid) . While I won’t get the Blind and Vulnerability on F1 it could still work. Zealous Blades, Focus and Hold the Line should provide at least some survivability. It will be easy to get 100% burn duration (Virtue of Justice = 2s 1,5k area burn) and the AAs will hit like a truck with the burn. If needed, sigils could add another condition as cover up for the burn but I don’t know if it is needed since it can be reapplied quite frequently (Sword AA, GS WW) and we also got a strong direct damage component. Yes, this build will be fragile. But it could still work.

0/30/0/10/30 with either Rabid or Settler (condition bunker). If the new Radiant trait turns out to be useful this set up should work quite well. Main damage sources will be burns and Retaliation. Shouts provide Retaliation and survivability. I can trigger a lot of Vulnerability as cover condition through blinds and consider getting a second condition through either sigils or runes. It should be painful to win against this build.

Rabid is always going to be a bad idea in my opinion.

Dirame.8521:

Rabid is always going to be a bad idea in my opinion.

Well… I wrote Rabid or Settler.

I would prefer Settler even if it means less condi damage. However, I might have to pick Rabid for the additional crit chance because I want to get an additional condition through sigils.

Xaylin.1860:

Dirame.8521:

Rabid is always going to be a bad idea in my opinion.

Well… I wrote Rabid or Settler.

I would prefer Settler even if it means less condi damage. However, I might have to pick Rabid for the additional crit chance because I want to get an additional condition through sigils.

In PvE that would actually be a good idea. But I’m not so sure about PvP.

Buran.3796:

Silv.9207:

4) They put Force of Will on Honor line, that increase your Vitality by 300, giving around 3000 hp. That amount of hp can make you think to be good to increase our chances to fight condition damage, or to make dps live longer, but to obtain that trait you need to spent 30 trait points on a defensive trait line and a DPS don’t do that, and if you want to fight condition damage you must chose to 3000 more hp or Pure of Voice, that clean 1 condition whit shouts (2 if combined whit Soldier Rune). And to fight condition damage I prefer Pure of Voice, than 3000 more hp. A good condiiton damage dealer can inflict 1800 condition damage per second. Whit 3000 more hp you can survive 2 seconds more… and I prefer to clean away conditions and reduce to 0 the damage than increase my hp by 3000 ans curvive 2 seconds more.

I think that the trait may work very well in dps builds; usually those builds work around the use of 2-3 meditations, so probably you will not have the luxury to spent a skill slot in a shout to take advantage from Pure Of Voice, and the extra health can be very handly against burst builds. During the last month and half I was using a 10/10/30/20/0 triple meditation build in PvP and was fine, so I think that a X/X/30/30/0 can work.

The other new traits are bad, I agree.

I see Force of Will allowing you to go x/x/30/30/x running meditations and using pvt armor with beserker weapons and trinkets for some nice crit damage and still having a decent health pool. While not a trait I am excited about for standard WvW it might be nice in SPVP or Roaming.

Condition Build can be made. You can use conditions to inflict a “good” damage. But you must always compare your build whit other classes. Necro, Ranfer, Engi, Ele, Thief, Mesmer, Warrior (all the other classes) can mix 2 or more different condition damage source (burn, bleed, poison, confusion, torment). A Guardian can only use Burning.
You can make a good condition build, you can win against someone whit a condition build, but compared whit all the other classes a guardian is not a good condition damage dealer.
To obtain 33% Burn damage, you must spent 30 points in Zeal, the useless trait line ever for a guardian. That trait can give you a lot of good things but nothing about condition damage, only about direct damage. When you read "10% damage against burned enemy" they say “direct” damage. Whit a condition build how much direct damage you hope to do? And on Zeal trait there’s already the trait called Kindled Zeal, that give you condition damage based on your power. The new trait is only a better version of that trait, nothing more, because your only condition damage is always Burning! They don’t make nothing new, only re-make something bad to be more appreciate to players that want to try a condition build.
But if you spent 30 points in Zeal and 20 in Virtues to maximize your condition damage and your ability to apply burn… how do you hope to defend youself?

Why guardian use only 2 trait line? (Honor and Valor)
Why we have low healt and if we don’t think to heal and/or remove conditions we can’t stay alive!

If you play whitout one of that 2 traits (or both) your defence and your longevity fall.
To obtain what? 900 damage x second whit 500 direct damage every 1/5 sec?

Ranger can inflict 2k condi damage x sec and 700 direct damage x sec + pet damage.
Necro and engi can do better. Mesmer can hide while you die slowly (2k damage x sec isn’t all that slowly…) and you die while try to find the right enemy to attack.

Guardian can be a condition damage dealer, but compared whit all the other classes is the worste condition damage ever. Why do it?

Dirame.8521:

When I look for a build, I look for the best build that THAT class can create, I don’t look for the best build in the game because that just leads to dissapointment.

Theory crafting and testing new waters is interesting and I encourage and applaud that. You may even come up with something viable. But will your build be relevant? is what matters. Right now, and even with anticipated changes, Guardian condition damage is simply not a relevant competitor.

To ignore what everyone else is doing with their professions and focussing on your own isn’t just dedication, it’s willful ignorance. You can play whatever build you want. I’m the last person who will tell people to change build because it is sub-optimal or not as strong as another professions version. What I am saying is, while you may be doing the best that your class can do in some regard, like condi-build, it’s good to know and accept when you are in territory in which your class in that role is a weak performer.

Dirame.8521:

I personally will not say no to more improvements to the condi guardian (such as cover condis like Torment) but I will also not say that it isn’t working right now especially for what the guardian is built for.

You will need to scream from the rooftops to get the changes you need to make this a meta affecting build. I’m not saying Burn Guard can’t be useful, it’s just nowhere near as useful as it has the potential to be.

Silv.9207:

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Condition Build can be made. You can use conditions to inflict a “good” damage. But you must always compare your build whit other classes. Necro, Ranfer, Engi, Ele, Thief, Mesmer, Warrior (all the other classes) can mix 2 or more different condition damage source (burn, bleed, poison, confusion, torment). A Guardian can only use Burning.
You can make a good condition build, you can win against someone whit a condition build, but compared whit all the other classes a guardian is not a good condition damage dealer.
To obtain 33% Burn damage, you must spent 30 points in Zeal, the useless trait line ever for a guardian. That trait can give you a lot of good things but nothing about condition damage, only about direct damage. When you read "10% damage against burned enemy" they say “direct” damage. Whit a condition build how much direct damage you hope to do? And on Zeal trait there’s already the trait called Kindled Zeal, that give you condition damage based on your power. The new trait is only a better version of that trait, nothing more, because your only condition damage is always Burning! They don’t make nothing new, only re-make something bad to be more appreciate to players that want to try a condition build.
But if you spent 30 points in Zeal and 20 in Virtues to maximize your condition damage and your ability to apply burn… how do you hope to defend youself?

Why guardian use only 2 trait line? (Honor and Valor)
Why we have low healt and if we don’t think to heal and/or remove conditions we can’t stay alive!

If you play whitout one of that 2 traits (or both) your defence and your longevity fall.
To obtain what? 900 damage x second whit 500 direct damage every 1/5 sec?

Ranger can inflict 2k condi damage x sec and 700 direct damage x sec + pet damage.
Necro and engi can do better. Mesmer can hide while you die slowly (2k damage x sec isn’t all that slowly…) and you die while try to find the right enemy to attack.

Guardian can be a condition damage dealer, but compared whit all the other classes is the worste condition damage ever. Why do it?

Anet is trying to promote hybridization with the guardian but having to go into 30 into Zeal actually cripples any feasible condition build and won’t create any sort of build diversity if it becomes necessary to do so.
If going into Radiance it becomes easy to realize that going direct damage is preferable to condition damage. 300 condition damage is peanuts in regular condition builds (over 1k condition damage, usually) and can easily be brushed off with passive regen.

300 conditdmg is 403 burning per tick (bpt).

With this incomplete build that I’m going to test out come the update I’ll have a theoretical max of 2664 condition damage which is really droppin balls on the condition meter across the classes.

Still 2664 conditdmg is 986 bpt. For being our only condition the scaling is horrible with damage being a bit over double as if you had just 300 conditiondmg (403 bpt+686). With that much investment burning gets to be about another auto attack thrown on when it procs.

This isn’t a very good hybridization attempt at all, as going all out condition damage or getting even half is still no better for burning as if we had just only invested into Radiance or had no extra condition damage at all.

dace.8019:

Dirame.8521:

When I look for a build, I look for the best build that THAT class can create, I don’t look for the best build in the game because that just leads to dissapointment.

Theory crafting and testing new waters is interesting and I encourage and applaud that. You may even come up with something viable. But will your build be relevant? is what matters. Right now, and even with anticipated changes, Guardian condition damage is simply not a relevant competitor.

To ignore what everyone else is doing with their professions and focussing on your own isn’t just dedication, it’s willful ignorance. You can play whatever build you want. I’m the last person who will tell people to change build because it is sub-optimal or not as strong as another professions version. What I am saying is, while you may be doing the best that your class can do in some regard, like condi-build, it’s good to know and accept when you are in territory in which your class in that role is a weak performer.

Dirame.8521:

I personally will not say no to more improvements to the condi guardian (such as cover condis like Torment) but I will also not say that it isn’t working right now especially for what the guardian is built for.

You will need to scream from the rooftops to get the changes you need to make this a meta affecting build. I’m not saying Burn Guard can’t be useful, it’s just nowhere near as useful as it has the potential to be.

I found that thinking of the relevance of a build compared to other classes only serves to box you in. When i find a build works its because it works. There are so many builds I’ve sat on for the guardian without showing them because i don’t feel they work but this one, this one just needs 1 thing and it would be almost too good ‘cos right now it’s just good.

Dirame.8521:

I found that thinking of the relevance of a build compared to other classes only serves to box you in. When i find a build works its because it works. There are so many builds I’ve sat on for the guardian without showing them because i don’t feel they work but this one, this one just needs 1 thing and it would be almost too good ‘cos right now it’s just good.

Got to agree with this. The only reasonable situation to compare classes directly is when talking about the viability of a class for certain game modes. Guardians are in a very good spot here since they are part of the meta in literally any game mode. Outside of that, don’t compare builds or specific playstyles across classes. It will just limit yourself and make you sad. There is a huge space inbetween ‘being viable’ and ‘being meta’ and just because a build isn’t relevant for a meta doesn’t mean it can’t be played successfully or is total crap by default.

So you’d be happy with a spirit weapon Staff guardian running condition (Rabid) damage in your sPvP team or FotM party?

Because I know of a couple of classes who excel at ranged condition with pet summons but let’s ignore them for the moment because we’re only interested in Guardians.

dace.8019:

So you’d be happy with a spirit weapon Staff guardian running condition (Rabid) damage in your sPvP team or FotM party?

Way of twisting words. I said that builds not being meta doesn’t mean they aren’t viable. I didn’t say all builds are viable. And you came up with a pretty messed up one.

Xaylin.1860:

dace.8019:

So you’d be happy with a spirit weapon Staff guardian running condition (Rabid) damage in your sPvP team or FotM party?

Way of twisting words. I said that builds not being meta doesn’t mean they aren’t viable. I didn’t say all builds are viable. And you came up with a pretty messed up one.

Funnily enough, it’s actually not that bad an idea. Rabid so that you can get AoE torment on crit, Staff to stack might and Greatword to unleash the condis.

Dirame.8521:

Funnily enough, it’s actually not that bad an idea. Rabid so that you can get AoE torment on crit, Staff to stack might and Greatword to unleash the condis.

I’m more concerned about the Spirit Weapon part.

Xaylin.1860:

Dirame.8521:

Funnily enough, it’s actually not that bad an idea. Rabid so that you can get AoE torment on crit, Staff to stack might and Greatword to unleash the condis.

I’m more concerned about the Spirit Weapon part.

Couldn’t figure out how to introduce that into the build unfortunately.

Been brainstorming possible condi builds, I have a lot of gold I don’t need and I enjoy trying new builds so why not?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vUAQRArf8dlsApVolDxZI8DNhkpYlOQrHAECBAVKwn6B-zECB4iDimWAm6Ak8IQZqFRjtMsIasKZER1KlYBAQAYmzcmzcmzsUAwssC-w

Most damage comes from burning and retal obviously, only need three hits to apply two seconds of burning so perma burning is possible with rapid sttacking weapons like scepter and sword. Took the consecration for a bit of condi removal/reduction and more burning, plus might from focus 5. Traveler runes to stay in melee range to proc geomancy and keep up the pressure, plus escape if needed. Condi/boon duration doesn’t hurt either. Bleed and poison from sigils to cover the burning, as well as blinds and lots of vuln.

Damage,
Burning – 795 dps
Bleed x3- 408 dps
Poison – 271
Retal – 348 per hit, assuming 2000 power = 1500 condi, in which case it still goes a little higher
Normal hits – meh, they’re like a stack of bleed especially against tanky foes. Damage is damage though.

Damage is below what other condi classes can output on average, but it is just as durable if not more so than some other specs.

Xaylin.1860:

Force of Will
Basically the opposite of Communal Defense. So far Honor didn’t have a solo centered trait on the grandmaster level. While the trait is rather boring I can see people using it. Not everyone runs Shouts and Battle Presence is useless when solo.

This would have been nice for those with 30 in honor to switch to when not in a group… but the retrait anywhere for free change kind of rendered that moot.

Silv.9207:

3) They put Communal Defence on Valor, and I think it’s useless compared whit Altruistic Healing, but it’s what I think. It’s a good trait, but not the best the can make. One more aegis when block every 20 sec can be good, but if you combine Altruistic healing whit Empowering Might (trait VIII on Honor line) your heal yourself by 360 per second just hitting the enemy, and if you add the staff skill Empower you heal 1/2 or 1/3 of your hp in 2.5 sec.

If you get an all Guardian group all with Communal Defense though… Talk about the elitism that could come from THAT.

Morsus.5106:

Silv.9207:

3) They put Communal Defence on Valor, and I think it’s useless compared whit Altruistic Healing, but it’s what I think. It’s a good trait, but not the best the can make. One more aegis when block every 20 sec can be good, but if you combine Altruistic healing whit Empowering Might (trait VIII on Honor line) your heal yourself by 360 per second just hitting the enemy, and if you add the staff skill Empower you heal 1/2 or 1/3 of your hp in 2.5 sec.

If you get an all Guardian group all with Communal Defense though… Talk about the elitism that could come from THAT.

This game will all of sudden have the tag line; “Just Aegis it!”