Guild Wars 2

Nethod.7068:

Hey thanks for telling me i’m salty and whiny.

Sorry for alerting a clear problem along with the original OP.

Can I have a refund for the content I’ll be missing? Only time will tell..

You’re welcome, I call it as I see it. The problem may be there, but the way you present yourself means nobody will want to support you or your ideas regardless of whether or not you’re right. The only thing stopping you from getting through the content is you. That’s like me asking for a refund on a burger and fries because one of the fries was at the bottom of the bag and I don’t want to have to dig around to get it.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Nethod.7068:

Hey thanks for telling me i’m salty and whiny.

Sorry for alerting a clear problem along with the original OP.

Can I have a refund for the content I’ll be missing? Only time will tell..

You’re welcome, I call it as I see it. The problem may be there, but the way you present yourself means nobody will want to support you or your ideas regardless of whether or not you’re right. The only thing stopping you from getting through the content is you. That’s like me asking for a refund on a burger and fries because one of the fries was at the bottom of the bag and I don’t want to have to dig around to get it.

I can’t even list an idea or feedback here without personal attacks that de-rail the conversation. Half the thred is basicly “your stupid”.

The OP has a clear point, I have a right to support it without being personally attacked on the forums. Sorry.

Nethod.7068:

I can’t even list an idea or feedback here without personal attacks that de-rail the conversation. Half the thred is basicly “your stupid”.

The OP has a clear point, I have a right to support it without being personally attacked on the forums. Sorry.

The OP may have a point, but that point is obfuscated by complaining without giving constructive ideas or open questions. I’m not calling you stupid, I’m calling you whiny. The tone and format of your posts are just that. If you were to calmly and thoroughly explain why you think they need to up the ratio of tanks:dps in raids, that’s fine. If you write a dissertation that guardian dps is too high and needs a nerf, I’d disagree but you can say so. Asking the validity of requiring more support-y builds in fractals? Go for it. But what you’ve done is assert and complain in a manner that makes people annoyed with you from the get-go. Most of this would probably change if your posts didn’t use so many unnecessary capitalized words and seem so emotionally-charged. Stuff like this:

“The developers suck, and people like blaming people over the developers suckage is stupid.”
-Just a bunch of pointless, non-contributing QQ. This is worse than the revs whining for a hammer buff. Your apology is cute but not accepted, you have no such right when your means of support is through posts along the lines of ‘I don’t get to play my class, refund me ANET!’

Beyond your tone, I would like to see more calls for tankiness. I personally want one raid wing that requires a tank to go full potato and focus on survival to survive. Primarily because Anet has put all these tank sets in the game but 1) they aren’t optimal for PvE because it isn’t hard to survive 2) they aren’t usable in PvP; they keep putting in these sets that are worthless but for niche wvw builds (i.e. nomads in the healway build). Beyond that, maybe one other wing that calls for several tanks in a split to hold points. Maybe one raid wing or even just a single boss that requires the DPS to take a set with a little toughness or vitality in some way. Of course DPS mains wouldn’t like that and that’d mean needing multiple ascended sets or paying for runes again, on top of not working because people would probably just take two healers instead.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Beyond your tone, I would like to see more calls for tankiness.

Thanks, it sounds like your agreeing with me.

Nethod.7068:

Thanks, it sounds like your agreeing with me.

I agree with the underlying principle to an extent. I had to dig through a lot of nonsense to find it though, and I certainly don’t agree with what you said about the devs. So I don’t really agree with you. That’s all.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Nethod.7068:

Thanks, it sounds like your agreeing with me.

I agree with the underlying principle to an extent. I had to dig through a lot of nonsense to find it though, and I certainly don’t agree with what you said about the devs. So I don’t really agree with you. That’s all.

Good point. I agree. Everything I am angry about is about the game, I should have stuck to that point.

Reading all this gave me a headache

Nethod.7068:

Deal with the design guy, just deal with it and good luck.

I can’t even play that raid.
I can’t because of the design and you want it to stay that way.
You want me to change my build and the way I have always played and learn a completely different way to play so I’ll be able to enjoy this raid.
You want me to swap characters and gear just for this raid because if I don’t I just wont’ be able to play it. THanks guy, you care.

Can i get a refund yet ANET? I can’t even see what I paid for.

I never said you needed to swap class. I only said you needed to use your brains and not take useless traits/gear.

And yes, I very much want this design to stay. Why would I prefer having raids deteriorate to dungeon difficulty? If anything I hope the next wing is even more difficult.

As for all this refund crap, you were given more than enough information to make a decision on whether you’d buy it or not, including a beta tested raid boss with more than enough videos about it to realise it had a dps check. It’s not anet’s fault you were ill informed.

Kam.4092:

I think you need to read the definitions of sarcasm and pretentious. Then read his post again, and mine. He basically talked down on the game, and then made some sarcastic comments that could be mixed with being passive aggressive. To top it off then, his reply to me summed up his attitude. My reply was defending the game and telling him how he chose how to vent poorly, and that this type of thread did not need to be made.

I told him they could tank in raids, but he was in a dungeon.

Inserting a 3 boss raid that allows different uses of profession mechanics and gear options, does not mean the game overall is going to be reflected of what raids are.

Trying to tank in a dungeon like you would in a raid would not work well, and just slow things down. I know because I’ve tried doing what he’s said before. It’s just simply something that you can’t really do in this game.

Oh, sorry, I misread his post and didn’t know he was talking about dungeons specifically. Still don’t feel he was being sarcastic though, but otherwise I generally agree with you.

Obtena.7952:

Nethod.7068:

Obtena.7952:

The reluctance to accept change and adapt is strong with these ones. Funny that these people even subject themselves to MMO gaming in the first place.

I love my guardian, 5 thousand hours and I can’t play him in this raid.

Yeah, I read that. It doesn’t change the fact you don’t understand you are playing an MMO; MMO’s change all the time and how players interact with them must changes as well if they want to go along for the ride … so if that’s not something you’re willing to accept, why do you play them? If you don’t want to adapt, you shouldn’t be subjecting yourself to these kinds of game.

I played priest in WoW for several years. I played dominator in Lineage 2 for several years. Neither of these games ever forced me out of elite content. Actually, in wow, every class was viable in raid and it wad almost purely about the personal skill of the player. Healer could be priest, shaman, paladin, druid. Tank could be warrior, paladin and partly druid. DPS could be anything.

Why do i have to change class (not to play my main and most favourite character) in anet’s raids just because they don’t know how to design content/classes? I say, it is their fault. Yes, as a player i should be able to adapt – by changing gear, traits, and skills. It is completely unacceptable to be forced to play some chronomancer just to be allowed to be in raid and to tank. Chronomancer was never supposed to be tank anyway. That class sounds like pure ranged dps/support. However, anet fails to design their professions in the light of a bigger picture. Currently it just looks like they can just delete 4 professions from the game and they would not mind it at all.

This game does not force you out of elite content. That’s a sensational statement. If you want to be SELECTIVE in the roles you take in a raid with the profession you want, then its YOUR responsibility to find the other 9 people that DON’T want to be selective with the roles they take in raids.

If that’s not plain enough English for you, here is the rule you should be abiding by.

If YOU want to choose your role and profession in a raid, then it is YOU that must make and organize your own raids.

The insane thing here is that you should already know this by now because of the meta/PUG/dungeon debacles we used to have for 2 years prior. It’s the SAME debate and the result is STILL the same: Make your own teams.

heh crazy thread, ya’ll need to get outside.

So having given up on any real tanking in GW2, I worked this weekend on this PvE DPS burn build, it’s pretty kitten fun. It’s not min/max, as a tank I cannot play a glassy build, makes me want to stick forks in my eyes. So it has enough toughness and vit to make it resilient. The burning is a kick. BURN BABY BURN. I have my own build generator, see attached.

Rotation for Vets and above is Judges, Zealot’s Flame, throw it (Zealot’s Fire), Purging Flames, (by here you have 12 stacks or so of burn), Feel My Wrath, then sword skills or Torch 5 until Zealot’s comes back up. Always throw your Zealots it gives you 3 stack of burning.

On trash don’t waste Judges or Purging use Sword 2 to leap and then Zealots, sometimes Purging if a mass of trash.

Obtena.7952:

This game does not force you out of elite content. That’s a sensational statement. If you want to be SELECTIVE in the roles you take in a raid with the profession you want, then its YOUR responsibility to find the other 9 people that DON’T want to be selective with the roles they take in raids.

If that’s not plain enough English for you, here is the rule you should be abiding by.

If YOU want to choose your role and profession in a raid, then it is YOU that must make and organize your own raids.

The insane thing here is that you should already know this by now because of the meta/PUG/dungeon debacles we used to have for 2 years prior. It’s the SAME debate and the result is STILL the same: Make your own teams.

Yeah, wish me good luck with that. It’s not the same to form 5-man party for semi-casual content and 10-man party for HC content when LFG doesn’t even work for 10 people and commanderless squads are annoyance – i’m not a comm so I can’t really be a leader

@Nethod.7068: gw2 pve is faceroll, and only damage output is needed, faster u kill the target lesser problem ur party will have, game isnt about every class has the same chance to win depending on player skill, but rather play what Anet makes strong and be clever.

Do as i do, move along sir, move along.

Aeolus.3615:

@Nethod.7068: gw2 pve is faceroll, and only damage output is needed, faster u kill the target lesser problem ur party will have, game isnt about every class has the same chance to win depending on player skill, but rather play what Anet makes strong and be clever.

Do as i do, move along sir, move along.

Bravo. You see a problem and you are willing to get used to live it it. Good for you.

What I don’t understand is why you people see the guardian only in a tank role. It could easily pick up its former job of support dps too in future raid wings. All they need to do is create encounters that actually require it. There’s no need to push the class into a niche role.

Look at it this way, if they’re only good as tanks they have 8 other classes to contend with for a single raid spot. It’s not because it’s called a “guardian” that it’s all about soaking up dmg.

Mortifer.2946:

Chronomancer was never supposed to be tank anyway. That class sounds like pure ranged dps/support.

I guess that’s why they gave it a shield huh? An offhand to go with their many one handed range options.

cranos.5913:

What I don’t understand is why you people see the guardian only in a tank role. It could easily pick up its former job of support dps too in future raid wings. All they need to do is create encounters that actually require it. There’s no need to push the class into a niche role.

Look at it this way, if they’re only good as tanks they have 8 other classes to contend with for a single raid spot. It’s not because it’s called a “guardian” that it’s all about soaking up dmg.

Mortifer.2946:

Chronomancer was never supposed to be tank anyway. That class sounds like pure ranged dps/support.

I guess that’s why they gave it a shield huh? An offhand to go with their many one handed range options.

Yea, Arenanet should give elemetalists shield too, then they would be tanks too, right? Or maybe they can give it to thieves! Amazing! So many tanks in rags and pyjamas!!!

….The problem about support guardian is that other professions do it better than us.

Mortifer.2946:

cranos.5913:

What I don’t understand is why you people see the guardian only in a tank role. It could easily pick up its former job of support dps too in future raid wings. All they need to do is create encounters that actually require it. There’s no need to push the class into a niche role.

Look at it this way, if they’re only good as tanks they have 8 other classes to contend with for a single raid spot. It’s not because it’s called a “guardian” that it’s all about soaking up dmg.

Mortifer.2946:

Chronomancer was never supposed to be tank anyway. That class sounds like pure ranged dps/support.

I guess that’s why they gave it a shield huh? An offhand to go with their many one handed range options.

Yea, Arenanet should give elemetalists shield too, then they would be tanks too, right? Or maybe they can give it to thieves! Amazing! So many tanks in rags and pyjamas!!!

….The problem about support guardian is that other professions do it better than us.

Ele is not of the best tanks. I’d take a shield

Azure.8670:

Mortifer.2946:

cranos.5913:

What I don’t understand is why you people see the guardian only in a tank role. It could easily pick up its former job of support dps too in future raid wings. All they need to do is create encounters that actually require it. There’s no need to push the class into a niche role.

Look at it this way, if they’re only good as tanks they have 8 other classes to contend with for a single raid spot. It’s not because it’s called a “guardian” that it’s all about soaking up dmg.

Mortifer.2946:

Chronomancer was never supposed to be tank anyway. That class sounds like pure ranged dps/support.

I guess that’s why they gave it a shield huh? An offhand to go with their many one handed range options.

Yea, Arenanet should give elemetalists shield too, then they would be tanks too, right? Or maybe they can give it to thieves! Amazing! So many tanks in rags and pyjamas!!!

….The problem about support guardian is that other professions do it better than us.

Ele is not of the best tanks. I’d take a shield

You know what? Let’s do this! And also let’s give guardians alacrity and more quickness, also let’s give them burst heals and nonstop boons and 12K burning. You know…just to shake things up.

Mortifer.2946:

cranos.5913:

What I don’t understand is why you people see the guardian only in a tank role. It could easily pick up its former job of support dps too in future raid wings. All they need to do is create encounters that actually require it. There’s no need to push the class into a niche role.

Look at it this way, if they’re only good as tanks they have 8 other classes to contend with for a single raid spot. It’s not because it’s called a “guardian” that it’s all about soaking up dmg.

Mortifer.2946:

Chronomancer was never supposed to be tank anyway. That class sounds like pure ranged dps/support.

I guess that’s why they gave it a shield huh? An offhand to go with their many one handed range options.

Yea, Arenanet should give elemetalists shield too, then they would be tanks too, right? Or maybe they can give it to thieves! Amazing! So many tanks in rags and pyjamas!!!

….The problem about support guardian is that other professions do it better than us.

Mesmer was always a support class with plenty of survivability in PvE. The fact that they gave it a shield with even more support and low dmg kinda points towards a design decision of a tankier spec. Combine that with the fact it’s an offhand and your only ranged one handed weapon being condi based I really don’t understand how you could come to the conclusion of chrono being ranged dps.

Your comment on 2 of the classes brought only for their DPS further shows how little logic and how much salt went into that post. That being said, both could fill a tank role even tho it’s not optimal.

And you really think that? What classes are better at support DPS exactly?

2x herald, 2x PS warrior, 2x alacrity chrono and you have all the support you need. One healing druid and the rest can be pure DPS.

Banners are exclusive to warrior + they have nice ress skill on downed ppl. Chrono has exclusive boons too. Herald has non exclusive boons, but his uptime is 100%. Guardians never have 100% uptime. Plus, their DPS is lower than herald’s.

There is a reason why nobody on LFG looks for guardians. (and in raiding guilds too)

Mortifer.2946:

2x herald, 2x PS warrior, 2x alacrity chrono and you have all the support you need. One healing druid and the rest can be pure DPS.

Banners are exclusive to warrior + they have nice ress skill on downed ppl. Chrono has exclusive boons too. Herald has non exclusive boons, but his uptime is 100%. Guardians never have 100% uptime. Plus, their DPS is lower than herald’s.

There is a reason why nobody on LFG looks for guardians. (and in raiding guilds too)

Thanks for stating the obvious. None of that has anything to do with active defense.

People claim there is no trinity, and the game is meant for such, yet we have tanking gear, healers gear, support gear, hybrid gear… and we have the rolls to support the gear, yet the only viable roll is dps. its not that the game doesn’t HAVE these roles or options, its that ANET doesn’t ENDORSE the rolls.

If dps was meant as the only role, get rid of gear stats and only give damage increases. get rid of healing and tanking builds. DO NOT have these options in the game if its not wanted.

But, we DO have support builds, we do have support stats, and new stats, skills and builds are being added in with every content update, proving that ANET is going in a diverse build direction in which support has a place.

If tanking wasn’t considered, agro wouldn’t be attached to toughness. with all the gear stat variations, it actually seems that ANET wants build diversity but doesn’t want to offend the gentle dps snowflakes.

The guardian was meant to be a healer, tank and support. and has the potential to do all these roles with excellence, but ANET’S fear of committing to the system they created is holding back the class, as well as several others.

Either support and commit to ALL builds, or remove them. no more of these subtle “you have the option of tanking, healing and support, but we really don’t want you do do that. just ignore that gear and those skills. its loose code we will eventually get rid of”

Yeah, guardian shines at active defense, but in the end, is party aegis good enough compared to distortion by a mesmer who can time the skill right? Guardian doesn’t even have that much party aegis: F3, Shield 4, Retreat…is there something else?

Delgotta.3817:

People claim there is no trinity, and the game is meant for such, yet we have tanking gear, healers gear, support gear, hybrid gear… and we have the rolls to support the gear, yet the only viable roll is dps. its not that the game doesn’t HAVE these roles or options, its that ANET doesn’t ENDORSE the rolls.

If dps was meant as the only role, get rid of gear stats and only give damage increases. get rid of healing and tanking builds. DO NOT have these options in the game if its not wanted.

But, we DO have support builds, we do have support stats, and new stats, skills and builds are being added in with every content update, proving that ANET is going in a diverse build direction in which support has a place.

If tanking wasn’t considered, agro wouldn’t be attached to toughness. with all the gear stat variations, it actually seems that ANET wants build diversity but doesn’t want to offend the gentle dps snowflakes.

The guardian was meant to be a healer, tank and support. and has the potential to do all these roles with excellence, but ANET’S fear of committing to the system they created is holding back the class, as well as several others.

Either support and commit to ALL builds, or remove them. no more of these subtle “you have the option of tanking, healing and support, but we really don’t want you do do that. just ignore that gear and those skills. its loose code we will eventually get rid of”

Ehh, what? Both tanks and healers are used in raids. Even before that the guardian didn’t necessarily go for max DPS and traited for longer reflects/condi removal/etc as well as used many defensive skills.

You also seem to be forgetting about a game mode called WvW. But I guess ranting is more important than making sense. ^^

Mortifer.2946:

Yeah, guardian shines at active defense, but in the end, is party aegis good enough compared to distortion by a mesmer who can time the skill right? Guardian doesn’t even have that much party aegis: F3, Shield 4, Retreat…is there something else?

Because aegis is the guardian’s only active defense…

Cranos, I’m trying to be polite.

So what do you mean by active defense? Spamming Hammer 1 for protection and mace for regeneration?

Mortifer.2946:

Cranos, I’m trying to be polite.

So what do you mean by active defense? Spamming Hammer 1 for protection and mace for regeneration?

Active defense goes from reflects to blocks to condi cleanse, etc etc. Let me also clarify that this whole time I’ve clearly been talking about future wings as I’ve literally said a few posts earlier.

Oh, okay, I get it… in future wings guardians have a lot of potential. It is just sad that in the first wing not so much.
Gotta focus on my work now. Have a nice day

Mortifer.2946:

Obtena.7952:

This game does not force you out of elite content. That’s a sensational statement. If you want to be SELECTIVE in the roles you take in a raid with the profession you want, then its YOUR responsibility to find the other 9 people that DON’T want to be selective with the roles they take in raids.

If that’s not plain enough English for you, here is the rule you should be abiding by.

If YOU want to choose your role and profession in a raid, then it is YOU that must make and organize your own raids.

The insane thing here is that you should already know this by now because of the meta/PUG/dungeon debacles we used to have for 2 years prior. It’s the SAME debate and the result is STILL the same: Make your own teams.

Yeah, wish me good luck with that. It’s not the same to form 5-man party for semi-casual content and 10-man party for HC content when LFG doesn’t even work for 10 people and commanderless squads are annoyance – i’m not a comm so I can’t really be a leader

Right … so let’s make excuses why we don’t try to do something, turn that into “I CAN’T”, blame Anet and go for the field goal with “Refund PLZ”. It’s a good plan, but I don’t think it’s going to get you guys anywhere.

What I said was true because if you think it’s reasonable for you to be able to be selective in a raid, but the guy organizing the raid can’t, that’s just a nonsense position to have … yet here we are, people thinking their special snowflakes.

Huh?

Don’t worry. A good tank is a powerful facilitator. Everyone like me in my guild.

My Guardian Video

Balthazar (Hero Point)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR0gttFrbos

Fotm 77 Mossman (Werewolf)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19ARHXTh1BQ

champion coztic bladedancer (Hero Point)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yHBP7szDoM

COE Boss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R9xJS37WX0

Raids are first content that try to incorporate roles but the game was designed as role-less

What Anet should have done first is:
1. Major ballance patch and traits-skills overhaul for all proffesions and define roles for them.
2. Introduce Raid content

Kam.4092:

Reading all this gave me a headache

Ya, its no point tbh, every classforum looks like this, theress always something, always. ANd it’s just confusing…..seams like all classes sukks, so I guess in a good way atleast not that unblanced ^^

Why doesn’t Guardian make the cut? The current wing simply does make use of all a Guardian has to offer.

So for the most part, there’s a general consensus/plea that Guards should have the Tank role. Okay, what does a Guard have to offer? Group Boons (stab, Aegis, Proc, Regen), condi clear, AoE stunbreak, Projectile management, Blinds, area denial, moderate healing, and moderate DPS (quick list, I know I’m missing things). Now how much of that do we actually need in the first wing?

The other problem is that Guardians relies on more active defenses than passive ones. In other words if you miss a dodge or don’t have the right boons/blocks up you’re in for a bad time. Compared to a Necro? That guy can just stand there and take a beating (to an extent) while dishing out a very respectable amount of damage. Chronotanks? Yeah, they rely on a healthy mix of active and passive defenses, but the buffs/boons they can simultaneously offer make them quite the contender for the Tank spot. Heck, I’ve even seen Warriors outshine a Guardian in the tanking role since, like a Necro, they can take a beat but offer party buffs at the same time.

So yeah….Guards got the short end of the stick on this wing. Maybe on the next wing we’ll be presented challenges that better cater to the package that a Guard can bring. I’m not saying that you can’t bring a Guard to tank, it’s just that other classes can fulfill that role with more efficiency and with more to offer so most teams will opt for the more optimal/efficient choice.

Ultimately though, if you’re not setting up your own runs you’re at the mercy of what you team is demanding. And seeing how Guards aren’t on the “meta list” I can understand why there’s a potential for gripes when you try to present yourself as a Guard tank.

savacli.8172:

Why doesn’t Guardian make the cut? The current wing simply does make use of all a Guardian has to offer.

So for the most part, there’s a general consensus/plea that Guards should have the Tank role. Okay, what does a Guard have to offer? Group Boons (stab, Aegis, Proc, Regen), condi clear, AoE stunbreak, Projectile management, Blinds, area denial, moderate healing, and moderate DPS (quick list, I know I’m missing things). Now how much of that do we actually need in the first wing?

The other problem is that Guardians relies on more active defenses than passive ones. In other words if you miss a dodge or don’t have the right boons/blocks up you’re in for a bad time. Compared to a Necro? That guy can just stand there and take a beating (to an extent) while dishing out a very respectable amount of damage. Chronotanks? Yeah, they rely on a healthy mix of active and passive defenses, but the buffs/boons they can simultaneously offer make them quite the contender for the Tank spot. Heck, I’ve even seen Warriors outshine a Guardian in the tanking role since, like a Necro, they can take a beat but offer party buffs at the same time.

So yeah….Guards got the short end of the stick on this wing. Maybe on the next wing we’ll be presented challenges that better cater to the package that a Guard can bring. I’m not saying that you can’t bring a Guard to tank, it’s just that other classes can fulfill that role with more efficiency and with more to offer so most teams will opt for the more optimal/efficient choice.

Ultimately though, if you’re not setting up your own runs you’re at the mercy of what you team is demanding. And seeing how Guards aren’t on the “meta list” I can understand why there’s a potential for gripes when you try to present yourself as a Guard tank.

In my case of feeling sad and cheated, it is my own fault. I should have waited longer before I committed to something. I saw a lot of videos by guilds like DnT who were killing VG with DH tank, so after 3 nights of failed attempts in semi optimal gear, I decided I will stop raiding until I get geared up properly and accordingly to the DH tank build posted on DnT forums in order to MINIMIZE the probability of me being a weak point in the squad and consequently being kicked out or forced to change character. By the time I finished everything and burned all my gold, I found out this DH tank tactics is obsolete and nobody wants me… yeah.. and now I am supposed to get hero points for my revenant or warrior, give him my gear, reforge it, craft some more weapons and play with that. If only I waited and saved up the gold I could now just rant about not being able to play with my main toon, rather than being forced out of the whole content.

Nethod.7068:

Deal with the design guy, just deal with it and good luck.

I can’t even play that raid.
I can’t because of the design and you want it to stay that way.
You want me to change my build and the way I have always played and learn a completely different way to play so I’ll be able to enjoy this raid.
You want me to swap characters and gear just for this raid because if I don’t I just wont’ be able to play it. THanks guy, you care.

Can i get a refund yet ANET? I can’t even see what I paid for.

Let me just get this right: you want your specific build to be viable in raids? Do you know how many build combinations the trait + weapon + stat allow? if they should all be viable you’d have to make raids faceroll easy – like dungeons. And that just result in people only wanting max damage builds to make it faster and get over with the boring gameplay just for rewards.
Or they would have to remake the whole stat, trait and weapon system to something simple where you can balance everything. Not gonna happen.
Just understand that this isn’t a tank, healer and dps game. dps is ruling GW2 with support as a PvP / WvW thing.

All the OP did was state their regret that tanks arent much of a thing in gw2, and all of this rage/qq comes out of the woodwork? Some people need to grow up. In a major way.

Mortifer.2946:

I played priest in WoW for several years. I played dominator in Lineage 2 for several years. Neither of these games ever forced me out of elite content. Actually, in wow, every class was viable in raid and it wad almost purely about the personal skill of the player. Healer could be priest, shaman, paladin, druid. Tank could be warrior, paladin and partly druid. DPS could be anything.

Why do i have to change class (not to play my main and most favourite character) in anet’s raids just because they don’t know how to design content/classes? I say, it is their fault. Yes, as a player i should be able to adapt – by changing gear, traits, and skills. It is completely unacceptable to be forced to play some chronomancer just to be allowed to be in raid and to tank. Chronomancer was never supposed to be tank anyway. That class sounds like pure ranged dps/support. However, anet fails to design their professions in the light of a bigger picture. Currently it just looks like they can just delete 4 professions from the game and they would not mind it at all.

I am only commenting on this for one reason, you clearly did not play BC or pre BC, There were indeed certain specs of classes that were EXTREMELY frowned upon in raids. So I would advise picking a better reference.

Oh yes the time a cement shaman had better aggro-holding abilities than a warrior…

The time no paladin had poisoned the Horde…

The time mages spent hours to knead the bloody Bread and made the Water.

And the freakin’ time to wait till somebody ride to the MeetingStones…

Good Ol’ times indeed

This is the content I signed up for. Seeing the cries and anguish of stubborn players. It fills me with strength.

I run a Guardian Tank and a Chronotank. I run whatever is needed. Yet I have the Eternal Title. Oh no I can’t raid :^)

Triggerbrand.8072:

This is the content I signed up for. Seeing the cries and anguish of stubborn players. It fills me with strength.

I run a Guardian Tank and a Chronotank. I run whatever is needed. Yet I have the Eternal Title. Oh no I can’t raid :^)

lol yeah I get it that it might be a lot of fun for some people

I also love playing tanks in mmos, but I didn’t let that ruin Gw2 for me. I’d like to encourage you to try out other classes; there’s surely at least one that you enjoy. Find a class that you like and just stick to it. If you like guardian because it’s supportive and tanky, then go with that.

You call yourself a “DPS” as if that’s a bad/inferior role to be. There are no “DPS” roles in the game, so you shouldn’t have that mindset. Just forget about the “holy trinity,” because that’s a dying system and nearly every upcoming and new mmo has gotten rid of. If you want to be an unkillable, unrealistic, dungeon tank, then go play World of Warcraft version 102830. Guild Wars 2 is an mmo that changes things. This game has a huge amount of unique aspects that make it different from other mmos. Players that come to the game expecting the normal mmo features that EVERY other mmo has will be disappointed.

Chazcon.1867:

You know I’ve been a gamer a long time, and I’ve played a tank in every game. But in GW2 I’m a tank without a job, with little or no aggro mechanic. So I have tried to adapt, I love a tanky build, and I have a tanky support/healer build. But no one wants that. I was in a dungeon run tonight:

Leader: I didn’t know people still ran non-DH builds.
Me: I’m a melee, not a kitten archer.
Leader. haha. Well what kind of Guard are you?
Me: support
Leader: Can you switch out to DPS, we already have a Druid.

I built a DPS Guardian, and I built a Warrior, but I am not a DPS, I don’t like DPS. I’m a tank. I really don’t think GW2 is the game for me in my usual role.

Maybe I’ll just give in and roll a mage. Robe & sandals, staff, zoom pow zippp. Ugh.

This game does not have the holy trinity (specific tank, healer and dps roles).

Classes are roughly selfsufficient (which I really like).
Some support a bit more, some can take a bit more hits, some deal more dmg etc. but in general, there arent specific roles like someone only healing, someone only tanking, someone only dpsing.

With a bit more research before starting this game, you could have known this.

So your usually tank role desires wont be met in this game.
I dont think that this is the game for your usual role.
Maybe you will like something else pve wise or maybe you will like some pvp?
If not, than this might not be the game for you.

Yashuoa.9527:

This game does not have the holy trinity (specific tank, healer and dps roles).

Classes are roughly selfsufficient (which I really like).
Some support a bit more, some can take a bit more hits, some deal more dmg etc. but in general, there arent specific roles like someone only healing, someone only tanking, someone only dpsing.

With a bit more research before starting this game, you could have known this.

So your usually tank role desires wont be met in this game.
I dont think that this is the game for your usual role.
Maybe you will like something else pve wise or maybe you will like some pvp?
If not, than this might not be the game for you.

When I researched before buying, all the talk was of a “soft trinity” of control, support, and dps. Even now in the GW2 introductory combat videos on the main website, there’s one that says something along the lines of “thief can make a good tank because of all of the evades”. It’s not that the roles weren’t meant to exist, it’s that they were supposed to be flexible in that every class could do a role in some wonky way at least. This is somewhat true with how guard was meta for all dungeons. Thing is the old PvE encounters are designed around dodgerolling and simply killing everything (instead of point-holding like PvP), so you don’t need defensive stats like in PvP or WvW. I don’t like that you don’t need supportive stats to be a support, or defensive stats to be control. It feels weird, like wearing a tuxedo top with work jeans.

What irks me is they keep adding defensive stat sets, even though they’ve had 3 years to see how things shape up across game modes. Defensive stats are nearly useless in PvE. They couldn’t (or didn’t want to) balance around them in PvP, so first they removed nomads and minstrels amulets (I still can’t believe minstrels was in for a few days on HoT release considering nomads was too tanky), and then to try to bust the bunker meta without touching class-specific over-sustain they simply removed more defensive amulets. So there’s a whole lot of stuff that’s only considered using in WvW, and even then a lot of it isn’t worth it. Eh, just seems weird to me.

Hello!
I could understand your frustfrate, but in a certain ’’view’’ they are correct by have to be more open to have option for a builds itself ..either is it ’’tank’’, ‘’support/healer’’, dps.
I have enjoyed a tanking also in a other mmorpg games.

I can even give my own opinion about why there is so many ’’dps’’ in mmorpg and less tanks/healers. Simple because most of a people cannot handle what by choosing being a tank/healer in a mmorpg games gives in a shoulders to carry either is it in a dungeons or Raids.
I highly respect a PVP healers..dear god that responsiblity. (anyone can imagine to try out that with all kind of a people, and not just with a good onces). I would lose my mind really fast while listening they ’’excuses’’ and blames even most of a players doesnt wanna see they own mistakes done, just pewpewpewp…
Like its a key for every encounter…..

Been a long time away from a game, and after reading this i have also a question in wich i wait contsructive and mature anwsers.. ‘’ like waffles ’’ or other unmature anwsers you can leave away from it also. Will contact to support if i have to.

I still keep myself kind of ’’newbie’’ in a world of guild wars 2. I did test a classes when i first start it to look a game and its offer by aspects and playing content. A classes like: engineer, necromancer, warrior(one of my favourite class mostly for tanking in other mmorpgames like world of warcraft, or similar sword+shield allowed playing mmorpg like age of conan, and so on… cannot say star wars was that type but similar..juggernaut i believe and trooper tank was cool), and also all others but a mesmer suprised me.
I also start it a Guardian character, and first in my mind was yes ’’anchor’’ or tank or whatever you call it in this game builds was first in my mind. So in wich purposes guardians are ’’required’’ to be in a higher end gaming ?

( i left back then, because i felt a a dungeons or higher end playing was actually more closed minded wich did ignore a definely a certain classes out from it, with its stacking, exploiting, and other boring things wich i dont call ’’versality’’ playing).
ps. hopefully they have fixed these, and made all classes more avaitable for a runs and not just these ’’specific’’ party allowed wich is more shame for open, and versality playing.

OP was 6 days ago and I am not about to read every single reply, so sorry if this was already mentioned, but…

You CAN run tank in this game, even in dungeons, and be an asset. Just, you don’t run full nomad’s or something. You still need to have damage (because there’s no reason not to), but you can be way tankier than the rest of the party without doing 0 damage.

For example, I run marauder’s+crusader’s on my guardian. This makes me 30-50% tankier than someone running full berserker’s, while a full berserker build would only do 20% more damage. Then, I use hammer for primary dps in extended fights, which not only does a lot of damage due to the symbols (and over a large area), but also gives everyone protection and some healing. Greatsword for a quick burst to start out fights, since hammer takes a few seconds to get going.

Can work for other classes too. On my ele I run a very support heavy build that’s quite tanky (gear is apothecary’s + shaman’s), offering loads of heals and boons, but I also put out quite a lot of burning damage