Guild Wars 2

The problem isn’t the class or even your skill it is your lack of understanding of what a Guardian is. The following poster is a Guardian

Nerael.9845
“I consider myself to be the first to step in to battle and the last to get out. If I need to sacrifice myself to let even 1 teammate escape the enemy zerg it’s worth it”

You are there to protect/support your teammates, help with dmg, control the enemy, and take hits so they don’t, allowing THEM to escape. A guardian is selfless and that is not who you are(at least in game). Should have probably rolled a warrior instead. Enjoy your ele

TalonVI.1843:

The problem isn’t the class or even your skill it is your lack of understanding of what a Guardian is. The following poster is a Guardian

Nerael.9845
“I consider myself to be the first to step in to battle and the last to get out. If I need to sacrifice myself to let even 1 teammate escape the enemy zerg it’s worth it”

You are there to protect/support your teammates, help with dmg, control the enemy, and take hits so they don’t, allowing THEM to escape. A guardian is selfless and that is not who you are(at least in game). Should have probably rolled a warrior instead. Enjoy your ele

I can do all that Nerael said on any other class. First in Last out but still most get OUT! I can also suicide for 1 teammate on a necro kitten lol Wheres your logic in this?

By your standards of a guardian the devs are twisting our arm to die for others.
So out of all classes we got picked to be fed to slaughter while others get a choice.
We got picked to pay repairs more than anyone else, we got picked ot spend our time walking back to action more than any other class? Is that what your telling me to belive? And your telling me im not guardian material cause i cant settle for this holy burden? Lol just lol

I would rather belive differently and hope for a change. Based on the beta state of guardians with a slight change to our judges intervention and flashing blade they screwed us over big time. At least i see it that way. Revert this and we got a non op way of escape. Save Judges Intervention (port to a friendly person escaping) and flashing blade to get the hell out more. Instead of lookin for mobs! Its sooo simple and i wouldnt be here quitting this wonderfull class!

They should rename Guardian to Kamikaze instead and put it up on Anet Guardian page lol “expect high repair costs”.

@Hostility

Applause man.
I’m convinced that I should stick to PVE.
Yeah. PVE guardian is the best.

I run 6 runes of the soldier for the condition removal, retreat, save yourselves, and stand your ground with a greatsword and staff. I have 0 problems getting into and out of fights and I have been playing on JQ(tier 1 server) the entire time.

Nightbird.2871:

I run 6 runes of the soldier for the condition removal, retreat, save yourselves, and stand your ground with a greatsword and staff. I have 0 problems getting into and out of fights and I have been playing on JQ(tier 1 server) the entire time.

We can remove those conditions all day long mate while the hp drops. I had rune of soldier too and traited even that sigil and F2 removes 3 conditions. Just prolongs death most of the time.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I also noticed you continue to ignore my counter arguments to yours. Does that mean you concede to them :p

No no, just RL keeping me occupied. I promise that ill post, properly tomorrow while i watch jags hopefully beat the jets

I think the problem stems from peoples simplistic view of “There is no holy trinity”

Anet have said there is no fixed classes. Every class can do every role. What Anet did not say was that every class can do every role just as good as each other. There is no equality in GW2. Some classes do better at certain things than others.

Guardians are better at tanking/Defensive play but they can also use ranged if they want. It is probably the worst at ranged combat but its still possible.

Ele, Rangers, Mesmers are very good at ranged combat but they can also melee but not very well.

Escape skills are primarily used for classes with less armour and less defensive skills. These skills will only help them to survive 2-3 seconds at most against a good player before they are found and murdered.

Guardian skills help you survive 2-3 seconds if your a good player (against 5 people)

There is balance after all. Go figure. If you want escape skills. Go play a squishy class. Its the reason they have escape skills.

There is no holy trinity = every class should be the same and have the same type of skills. Yeah right.

Some people are just too stupid beyond help.

Why not try a support build that helps the group rather than helping yourself? My guardian is specced and geared to where I can alternate between tank and support and any given time. Granted that eats up some of my inventory space but it’s worth it.

When I run support my passive heals keep most of the people with me in wvw up a majority of the time. I use Signet of Mercy with Stand Your Ground, Hold The Line, and Tome of Courage for the more intense fights. Yet I don’t do much damage with this setup but it keeps the group going and that’s what matter to me more honestly.

If you’re going with just damage that’s a different story. I use a full exotic knight’s set where I alternate between Hammer and Staff, but if you’re use weapon/shield that might explain why fights haven’t gone your way.

Aside from knowing your guardian’s strengths and weaknesses you must also know where and when it is the best place to fight your battles. Picking off stragglers is all well and good but they could also be a decoy luring you into a trap.

Hostility.4961:

The lack of stuff other almost every other class has: ESCAPE SKILLS!!!

This is pretty much untrue. We have four escapes, which is the same as most other professions with the exception of Thieves and Mesmers. Don’t believe me? Check here:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break

But, who needs escapes? I am a freakin’ Guardian. You want to mess with me, you better plan to stay for awhile and bring friends.

GraynX.8947:

But, who needs escapes? I am a freakin’ Guardian. You want to mess with me, you better plan to stay for awhile and bring friends.

Spoken like a true guardian!

First, thanks for quoting on a previous thread Hostility.

I think the main point here is that Anet has stated many times, that each class has (more or less) equal opportunity in whatever spec / build they decide to play and for that playstyle to be viable.

More or Less.

The issue is, that if we choose to play a DPS Guardian, the class inherently lacks escape modes to make up for the sacrafice in a Tanky build.

We give up raw tankiness (ie, toughness / healing / mitigation), which is the most popular builds right now, for massive dps. What every other class has is Massive DPS & Escapes.

Now, the change to Mediations w/ the focus on players vs pets/npcs will help… alot. We can start to build a more DPS focused w/ Meditation build for more ~escape~, which is what we lack.

The problem is giving us escape while having access to our full tank builds. That’s a bit OP. Too much mobility would definatly be OP.

But don’t pigeon hole us into a kamakaze playstyle while ~every other class~ (outside of Necro) has massive spike / dps and incredible escapes….

Oh, and don’t give me that c r a p about we are suppose to “Support” and that’s what we do, so we shouldn’t be on par with everyone else.

We ~inherently~ support by the class mechanics (boons / healing / CC). Choosing to build a Utility/Support … wait for it… ~build~ is your choice.

@Amins – Please read my post two up. We have escapes that are utility (and don’t need to be traited) and most have DPS buffs.

Stun Breaks are not Escapes.

If we need to define what an ‘escape’ is, that might be a different story. But breaking stun will not save you from being Focus Fired on while in a DPS (non tank) build.

Escapes = Drop Target or provide distance: Blink, Stealth, Teleport, Leap. Those are truely the only escapes.

Breaking Stun will only better your Survivability Build because you’re set up to take hits.

DPS builds need Escapes because they are not set up to take hits.

The Necro has the same issues. SUPER tanky, no escapes. Fighting these guys takes longer then a La Mans.

I don’t think we need to define Escape anymore then it already is. The OP wanted ways to get away from attackers. We have stun breaks that free us from control effects. One of those skills has a long duration swiftness. We have three teleports (one defensive, two offensive) and a leap or two. Most of those are distance closers, but we are melee and that is what we should be doing.

I don’t really care if your play style is to do a quick hit and then make a build that allows you to run away from the battle. But, that is more of a Thief playstyle, imo.

To say we have no means of escape is not true. The point is, we are not large burst with instant disengage. Our job is to be the center of attention. We have distance closers and steady retreats. Our mitigation is what saves us…as long as you play smart.

Konfuzfanten.6503:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I also noticed you continue to ignore my counter arguments to yours. Does that mean you concede to them :p

No no, just RL keeping me occupied. I promise that ill post, properly tomorrow while i watch jags hopefully beat the jets

Oh I was just joking about that Konfuzfanten, and yeah I hope the jags shoot down the jets!

GraynX.8947:

I don’t think we need to define Escape anymore then it already is. The OP wanted ways to get away from attackers. We have stun breaks that free us from control effects. One of those skills has a long duration swiftness. We have three teleports (one defensive, two offensive) and a leap or two. Most of those are distance closers, but we are melee and that is what we should be doing.

I don’t really care if your play style is to do a quick hit and then make a build that allows you to run away from the battle. But, that is more of a Thief playstyle, imo.

To say we have no means of escape is not true. The point is, we are not large burst with instant disengage. Our job is to be the center of attention. We have distance closers and steady retreats. Our mitigation is what saves us…as long as you play smart.

I don’t think you read much of Hostility’s posts have you nor have you read what Amins just posted. Escape is not Stun Breakers. That’s survivability to possibly aid you in escape, which doesn’t if you face more than a couple people with stun abilities. They just reapply them and then what? No escape.

Amins that first post makes a lot of sense there.

I’m glad that you’re defining how everyone should play GraynX, because I really don’t care if you want to be the center of attention w/ a heavy tank/support build.

Clearly you haven’t read this post, i’m w/ LoneWolf on this.

PS: If you’re a “Tanky Support Build” and you’re breaking thier zerg… usually you’re hoping for those Escape Based Burst Classes to come in and finish the setup you’ve just instigated.

IE: You need DPS Burst classes to assist you. More importantly, you ~NEED~ your burst classes to have escape mechinisms or you will never win the push. It’s an ebb and flow man and guardians just don’t ebb to well in the DPS builds.

PSS: Make MI ground targeted.

Saying I haven’t read the OP (which I have) is not a defense. Neither of you have argued the point, just attacked the poster.

If stun breakers do not help your survivability, then I am not sure what you would use them for? Except maybe closing in on a target… And enough targets will take you down, doesn’t matter what profession you play.

I am not defining the class or what your playstyle should be, Anet has already done that.

From the wiki:

“The guardian’s play-style has a defensive feel and are adept at supporting their allies.”

You may believe that Anet promised every profession can play each style equally, but you are mistaken. Each profession can fill rolls, but each profession has styles they excel at and if you do not work your build around that, then your performance will be hindered.

Amins.3710:

IE: You need DPS Burst classes to assist you. More importantly, you ~NEED~ your burst classes to have escape mechinisms or you will never win the push. It’s an ebb and flow man and guardians just don’t ebb to well in the DPS builds.

I agree, if you are trying to break a zerg you will need to have burst, dps classes. A support build guardian is there to keep the others on the team performing at peak and keeping them in the fight longer, so they can hold off on using escape mechanisms. Longer time in battle=more damage overall.

I don’t agree that guardians don’t ebb well, they just ebb slower than other class. And that is by design. But, as I said before, if you get too deep, it wont matter what escapes you have at your disposal.

If you wanted an escape in that sense then I suggest making a Norn Guardian and choosing the leopard for its invis skill.

Thers your escape option. It may not be as good as theif or mesmer but its an option thats available.

We have argued the point GraynX. You’re either just not wanted to acknowledge it or not seeing it.

Stun Breaks support a Surivability Build. You even argue that.

Stun Breaks do not support a DPS Build as a means of Escape: We cannot take the hits like a survivability Build can.

By your logic, every guardian should be supporting and not dps’n.

Failed logic.

The only defense for your position on a DPS build is that we have Shelter + Renewed Focus for 6s of trying to get away. And ofcourse, with the changes to MI, which is helping a little (no doubt).

The fact still remains: Guardians lack Escape, not Survivability. Survivability is our Escape. You must spec your traits for Survivability. Other classes don’t have to spec for Escape, thier weapons take care of that.

How you choose to argue and define these words are up to you, but facts are facts.

PS: from gw descrpition of a guardian (straight from thier mouth, not wiki): Guardian

Guardians are devoted fighters who protect their allies and smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their virtues. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfless defenders who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to empower their allies to achieve victory.

We protect AND smite.

You would have us only protect. A great tactician knows when to JI into a zerg and get out… if only we could get out.

Amins.3710:

Stun Breaks do not support a DPS Build as a means of Escape: We cannot take the hits like a survivability Build can.

This is a given. A survivability build should outlive a dps build.

Amins.3710:

By your logic, every guardian should be supporting and not dps’n.

You are putting words in my mouth. I said you could play however you like, but don’t think that you can or should be able to play like every other professions.

Amins.3710:

Failed logic.

Stun Breaks=mobility=survivability

That is the logic of this game.

Amins.3710:

Survivability is our Escape.

That is absolutely correct.

Amins.3710:

How you choose to argue and define these words are up to you, but facts are facts.

You haven’t provided facts, just opinions. You want to be able to play like other professsions. You want skills (ports, vanish, leaps…in short, panic buttons) like other professions. The “fact” is the guardian does not play that way. Even with a DPS build, you have ways to mitigate damage better then a lot of other classes. You don’t get to run in and blink out when things get heavy.

Amins.3710:

PS: from gw descrpition of a guardian (straight from thier mouth, not wiki): Guardian

Guardians are devoted fighters who protect their allies and smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their virtues. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfless defenders who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to empower their allies to achieve victory.

We protect AND smite.

You would have us only protect. A great tactician knows when to JI into a zerg and get out… if only we could get out.

First, the wiki is an official voice of Anet. Second, again I never said you cant DPS (or smite). I said you can’t play like other professions. You have to play a DPS build with the guardian tools. And those tools are effective.

The only things in this game that provide true escapability are ports, leaps, and stealth. Swiftness, stunbreaks, and condition removal are great when coupled with the above but won’t save you by themselves.

The two classes that I play (necro and guardian) have very poor escapability. They do have good survivability, but that really only prolongs your death unless you are able to survive long enough to retreat into friendly units.

Guardians shine in small group engagements where lack of escapability isn’t a huge issue. They aren’t so hot for fighting zerglings, however. It’s going to take them awhile to kill you if you play well and you might down a few while they are trying, but you will eventually go down.

I’m okay with that since I’ve always been more interested in killing than worried about dying. I’ll let the sissies play the classes good at running away. Guardian is a class for men.

Do you enjoy arguing with yourself GraynX because I think all of us have established that Stun Breaks does equal out to surviving. I don’t know why you keep thinking we are saying otherwise. Just evidence that you aren’t really paying attention to what we are saying.

I do argue with both you and Amins however that surviving = escaping. Two different mechanics here, but as you said, that’s just opinion, and its a pointless arguement.

Honestly though, you do NEED a way to get out with a DPS build. Youre too squishy, even with mitigations/damage avoidance. Those wonderful tools are quickly used up in a zerg situation in W3. So no, the Guardian DPS build does not have tools that are effective.

I don’t think anyone is really asking for an overpowered option here, which is what you and others are making it sound like.

GraynX, there are facts litered within this post alone. If you cannot see them, then you are blind.

Your position is: Play support or don’t survive.

You’ve made that clear. Clearly, you don’t understand what this post is about. It’s about a playstyle you choose not to play (argueably because ~you~ do not or cannot figure out any other way than ‘supporting’ your mates), so do not have anything to contriute other than it’s a “L2P the class the way I see it’s supposed to play or reroll”.

That’s basically the jist of your defense…. right?

I mean, we can’t play range (cough orbs). We can’t play Pure DPS (cough no escape). We can play Tank and we can play “support”.

Right, ofcourse. Why didn’t I see that?!

Here’s a solution for us: Run around with Thieves and Messmers and make them spec into mass invisiblity because that’s the only way we’re going to ESCAPE.

That’s it… we all need pocket Thieves. Maybe we’ll get pets… oh wait.. a Spirit pock theif! that’s it.

right….

This is funny as kitten, I think guardians have it way better than warriors as far as healing and condition removal, I can understand this kinda thread in the warrior section but not the guardian section. QQ on.

@Amins
You obviously do not want to accept that not every playstyle is going to be totally viable with every profession. I think you are going to be frustrated with the guardian class, if you don’t learn to rely on the tools we have, which as you can read throughout this forums, are very viable. But, whatever.

I have to ask, though, why do play a class that is by design not optimal for your playstyle?

Why do people want a perfect, “flawless” class, rather than just play what they enjoy better/fits their playstyle? I could play a Necromancer, but I just don’t like it (no offense, it’s a pretty cool class.) Same goes for Thief, which has way better escape options, but many other drawbacks. Still, many players play a Thief because it’s what they enjoy, not because it has “uber” armor, support options, and health regeneration. Play what you like, not what you feel must be the “best” profession-make what you like the “best” for you, rather than endlessly comparing how “inferior” your chosen class is vs every class that does some things better than yours.

In other words, if you don’t like Guardian for its poor ranged/escape options (for instance), feel free to play what you like! This is not meant as an insult, nor am I implying that the OP doesn’t know how to play Guardian-it’s just that some classes don’t fit certain people best, no matter how good they may be in hands of experienced/skilled players, and that’s totally alright. Play something else, and be happy.

GraynX.8947:

I have to ask, though, why do play a class that is by design not optimal for your playstyle?

Exactly. All classes are viable, but they may not fit everybody out there, hence the several choices. While someone may master all professions, most people do better with a few they enjoy playing the most, rather than forcing themselves to play a supposedly “better/superior” profession they hate to play. Play what suits you, not what’s supposed to be a “flawless/perfect” profession.

You make wide spread assumptions through-out the post GraynX.

You truely do not, did not, get this post.

It’s about a certain style of play that is appealing to ~many~ people, which needs a small tweek to make it work and be extremely viable.

Us old school players who think outside the box are always on the fringe.

PS: My perfered style is a Cleric Build w/ Beryl jewelery and a 0/15/30/15/5 build or a 10/0/30/30/0 build.

Don’t make assumptions. I know how to play the class the way ‘its intended for the masses’.

What makes great players is taking the fringe and making it work for the masses.

No, your not getting it Amins.

Your fringe idea is to change the philosophical design of the class.

This old school player understands that a guardian class is made to take punches, not look for easy ways to escape. That is what other classes do.

You still did not answer my question. Why play a class that is not designed around the playstyle you prefer?

Or is it that you want all the great things about being a guardian, as well as the things that make other classes work?

The Guardian class is made to take punches yes, if you spec for it. It’s also made to do incredible damage, if you spec for you.

Your point is moot. You still don’t get it. You believe that the class was made to be played ONE way and ONE way only.

That’s your opinion <- the point you’re missing.

I did answer your question. Please actually read what is posted because you’re clearly not, as illustrated through-out this entire post.

Lol, now I get it.

You have gone so long trying to create a reality that you think you are right.

I have ignored your baseless personal attacks (i.e. I dont get it, I dont read, I want to tell you how to play, I make assumptions, etc). They are untrue, weak and common attempts during discussions to try to bostler a point of view to seem right.

I have never said you cant DPS (in fact, I said the opposite many times….read my posts). I have said you have to DPS within the design of the class. And we have many tools to do just that, but that point seems to be lost to you.

It is clear now that you are trying to force your idea of a guardian into a state that is not true. Speccing for DPS does not prevent you from wearing heavy armor, use regen or condition removals. These things define our class. They will be there no matter how you spec.

I remember learning back in the BWEs that if you die a lot, you probably are not doing it right. Take a look at some of the videos on this forums. There are a lot of guardians doing great damage and not needing an additional escape (or crutch).

Warlord has it correct. A guardian trying to defend his QQing about not having enough survivability is comical.

…except that NO ONE was really complained about guardian survivability. Perhaps you and Warlord need to re-read the posts again for better comprehension.

WoR and watching people hit themselves for 2K-5K damage or reflecting conditions back onto themselves and then them running away or falling over never gets old.

What I believe the OP is complaining about is really melee and the deficiencies it has in WvW (when facing a zerg) and thus why he is now enjoying the Elementalist (AoE from range ftw). I can understand that but there are more options for a Guardian to melee effectively then there will ever be on my comparable geared and time-invested Warrior (or a melee lol Necro).

This thread should have been titled, “can’t figure out how to play a melee in WvW”. I get it but it isn’t the Guardian class per se.

GraynX.

Calling the kettle black… classic.

Your very first post to me: @Amins – Please read my post two up.

Your second Post to me: I don’t really care if your play style is to do a quick hit and then make a build that allows you to run away from the battle.

You really just don’t get it. Beta we had the escapes. They were put in the DESIGN of the class.

MI has been changed to act more of the tool we need. All it needs now is to be Player Targeted and it’s all good.

So wait, now you’re saying what defines our class: "wearing heavy armor, use regen or condition removals. These things define our class. "

You’re backpeddling. I’m done.

Sorry but.. The plain and simple true seems to be that the OP is very bad at playing Guardian. I feel near invincible in WvW. I’ve taken people on and won 3v1. Not saying this to troll but perhaps another class, maybe one that attacks from range or doesn’t need to think so quickly, would better suit you.

Good luck

~Araris

Coming from someone who has played Mesmer and Guardian both extensively in WvW I do tend to agree with the OP to SOME degree. I do feel Guardian lacks a bit of ‘escape’ but it could easily be fixed by allowing JI and sword 2 to not be targeted. As it stands, Mesmer is better at getting away but definitely is NOT as survivable as Guardian at actually tanking hits (and my mesmer is built straight up tanky). If the zerg chooses the right Illusion, you lose.

You can’t compare running away skill to a mesmer or a theif, period. Invisible has no hard counter… Warrior and Guardian has almost the same level of running away in term of melee encounter, warrior got shield stance, endure pain, GS’s WW and rush., while guardian has renewal focus, shelter, GS’s leap, also timing staff 5 while running can kd ppl that try to chase you.

If you get kd and immobzlie by 10+ people, it doesnt matter how many condition removal or break stun you have, you gonna die. If a class can’t get kill by 10+ people focus fire, that will be unbalance isn’t it? Ranger has worse running skill than guardian if it get attacks by surprise in melee, like thief or someone, cuz it has almost no block, and it can’t keep swiftness 100% of the time. On the other hand, my guardian can have swiftness 100% of the time and with GS leap and brunch of blocks, you can escape from “most” battle. You just have to know when to pull back before everyone else in the battlefield start to target on you.

I’ve been WvWing on my Ele as of late, and two days ago, I decided to get back to the ol’ Guardian. Guardian was always my main, just not in WvW.

It took a bit of work to get the rust off, but I move perfectly fine. I go in with GS and Sword/offhand. If I need to escape, all I do is target a distant mob with JI and flashing blade, and use the GS leap as necessary.

The point that there is not always a mob available has been made several times, but it is a moot point. A point made moot by a little planning ahead. During my engagement with whoever I now need to flee from, I position myself so that there is a mob at about 3k range, in the preferred direction of retreat. Just in case. It hasn’t failed me yet. The instant 1800 range from teleports followed by a GS and Swiftness leaves both Eles and Thieves behind.

By the time by pursuers catch up to me, which they likely will in any prolonged chase, I’ll be where I want to be. Ready to collect my kills.

I’d also like to make a note that there is almost always a mob available, mostly little critters like hawks and rabbits. With a keen eye, you can teleport pretty much in any direction you desire. I use these lil guys to not only stay up with my zerg, but to skip ahead of whoever I may be pursuing. Much more effective than teleporting to them, just to be an inch out of melee, swinging desperately at air, waiting for the next cooldown to finish.

This is not a ideal situation to be honest, but it is sufficient. The Guardian makes up for it and then some in other areas.

And as an extra note, edited in, and as others have said, watching the tide of battle is crucial. If one ends up in the middle of the enemy zerg, then that is there own fault. If the battle isn’t looking well, don’t full on retreat, but position yourself defensively, rather than offensively. When the retreating snowball effect begins, don’t allow the enemy’s forward rush to swarm you.

It’s you, not the class. I play mainly my guardian, but also have completely geared out Thief and Mesmer. My guild runs small man only, generally zerg busting with a max of 10, but usually around 5. We have almost all Ele, Thief, Mesmer in the group makeup, my job is zerg tanking. I’m saying all this because:

2 other 80’s are easily the most faceroll of escape classes. So I can easily compare that to my guardian. Guardians just require a little more awareness, as you can’t tele / SS away. I mentioned the group makeup, we obviously extend kite most of the time, I keep up just fine.

Here’s a few things that help:

• Sigil of Energy on staff
• Use terrain to funnel people, drop staff 5
• Always slot Stand Your Ground, stability is the key to WvW
• Often overlooked is how powerful the non signet block heal is against large groups. 10 second less timer/half heal………but it blocks EVERYTHING for 2 seconds and easily covers the heal gap when trained (which you should be pretty much always)
• You might as well run hammer too, I personally believe it’s not even a choice, so you get the 5 ability to block chasers, plus 2 leaps forward when not targeting someone.
• Judges Intervention, target mobs (we kitten they’re eveywhere anyways as people rally off them) or another enemy to teleport away.

Hostility.4961:

Now im off to make an elementalist that tanks better, gets away better, has better support, better dodge, 3 skills to gain distance, 98%!!!! imunity to chilled, immobilize and cripple. Does same dmg but more range. Wish i did it from the start before burning time and money.

Thanks for reading ^^

Good Luck leveling an Ele, their survivability sucks great big hairy balls. That might change once you get to 80 but tbh my Guard was a cake walk to get o 80 PVE, my Ele well I had to shelve it at lvl 24 because he is just to squishy and not much nukey.

Give me an elite ability that grants stability and swiftness for 10sec on a 300sec CD.

IMO we need another elite anyways, and how OP could this be lol?

Yeah, i feel useless on my Guardian main in WvW…that’s why i rolled alts. Really seems unfair. I feel like a gimped healer. i can’t even direct heal, can’t even get any good longrange damage in…it just feels weak. Love Guardian otherwise, but in WvW, it’s next to useless for many situations.

Same thing as the OP for my guardian in WvW. My ele is much harder to play with all the attunement swapping, but the ability to get away from zergs or to catch a runner is great.

I came onto the forum today looking for WvW advice to play my guardian again. Lots of differing advice that I need to try out. Hopefully I can find a good balance of fun and play style.

OP is right in a certain degree.

I’ve 1 Thief and 1 Guardian, but i use thief for WvW and Guardian more for pve, because of mobility.
Mobility is all in the WvW where there is always zerg vs zerg, with my thief, zerker glass cannon build i kill and survive triple times compared to my guardian full Knight defensive build. Also i made tons of money and tokens with thief, not with Guardian cause their attack are very slow.

This is possible only because thief has escape utilities and great mobility while guardian not, so i realize that in the end no matter how much HP and toughness you have, you will die anyway if you lack abilities to go in and out fast.

Mobility and speed utilities > all, expecially in a game where WvW is limited to s*itty zerg vs zerg.

Yes, is hard to kill a heavy armoured class with glass cannon thief, but again, you can escape if something go wrong, ever, refill and back in action immediately.

ps: Guardian elite sucks too, at least warrior has might, switness and fury that is 100 times better.

Swiftiness last 25-27sec on “Retreat” and affects those near you.
Staff traited swiftiness last 10sec with 12sec skill recharge
Save yourselves also gives some gooood buffs.
Theres also the mace “Protectors Strike”, shield “SoA” wich kb foes and “Stand you
Ground”.
Aegis.

I really enjoy WvW with a guardian since i started playing with a hammer and Judge’s Intervention.
Those of you who have tried know what I’m talking about

Warning… unintentionally long post

O.o

Why do people that put themselves into bad situations without any backup expect to live? No class should expect to live through that.

I’m pretty surprised that so many still feel that they can’t catch/stop a thief. I don’t find it all that hard… especially on a guardian where you can use a shield to knock them out of shadow refuge and Binding Blade hits and pulls in and knocks down stealthed players in the area. It might be that I just know the thief very well since I started out as one.

Surviving in larger scale fights… I’m not going to go into the face of a zerg without first judging the size of them and then seeing what I should be doing (support or front line).

If I decide to do front line… I make sure I have save yourselves and stand your ground. If I need to exit the rush I’ll usually use Shield of Absorption for the kb + absorb first… then pop those 2.

When I started guard I purposefully tested his limits in various situations… and it was fun to just go all LLLEEEERRROOOYYYY!!! I still do that some time just for the lols. This may take some time to learn your limit as situations can shift/change all of the time. Keep testing and learn from it over and over.

If I’m taking a lot of damage during the stable/swift retreat… I’ll pop my defensive virtues to give me a heal, + block and increase the duration on the regen and protection from save yourselves. If it gets REALLY bad that 6 seconds of immunity can save your life… and it lets me pop my virtues again. If you’ve traited into altruistic healing… that can be a huge heal (depends on how many are around you).

At that point if I get downed… it’s usually either my team wasn’t doing their job, I misjudged that I should even be rushing into the front line in the first place, or I over-extended my stay. Even if that happens… you shouldn’t have pushed SO far ahead to where your team couldn’t do something to at least try get you back up.

As a guardian rushing in many focus on you… that’s the point… and there is always a risk when you do that. My team should be doing their jobs and making it not so nice to stand around and need to back off since me and others are taking the damage and they don’t have to worry about it as much. This will also help me get back to them. It’s a symbiotic sort of relationship.

When I’m off solo I pack save yourselves + retreat… and I’m almost always able to get back to a team (know where your commanders are)/a keep/tower/whatever pretty easily without dying. If I happened to get caught unaware, or for whatever reason not be able to run home… then that’s my own fault and yet another learning experience.

If you want a class that can get away easier without having to think about the situations as much… go roll a thief or a long range class or something.

For me having to be constantly aware and have a good feel for how the battle is going is all part of the fun… and why I usually just keep my thief sitting at a dragon spawn to help cut down on those waypoint fees.

last night i ran into a thief in the jumping puzzle, he spiked me so i used empower(staff) and my shouts, save yourselves-stunbreak and stand your ground (wich stacks me with buffs and with the alt healing trait and the voice trait for shouts) i got trough the first part of the spike, then used shelter, wich brought me up to 25 stacks might due to the blocking minor trait.

He vanished, so i quickly swapped greatsworded, did the pull (skill 5) and combined it with the leap for blind and then spinned to win (still had about 20 might stacks left)

Ended up with 3 dead thiefs underneath me, 2 wich i hadn’t seen yet. This all lasted no more then a few seconds or smth like that. I felt pretty great after.

So far, the entire thread’s gone like this:

OP: This class has bad escape mechanics so you die instead of escaping, unlike several other classes.

Reading Comprehension Expert 1: LOL you are complaining that you can’t win a one on one, L2P!

Reading Comprehension Expert 2: OMG what are you talking about if no one focus fires me in the zerg, I don’t die!

OP: That’s not what I’m saying. I can win 1 on 1, I’m talking about when I’m focused. We have to get close, that’s our design. But we can’t get OUT of melee if we need to.

Reading Comprehension Expert 3: Didn’t you read what 1 and 2 said? You’re focusing on the negative! Bad player! Noob! L2P! Error… Error… Forumbot Chestthumper Golem 0.4 experiencing negative logic vortex! Errrrrrroooooorrrrr……