Guild Wars 2

Yes, another one of these DPS threads. I’ve been reading through tons of them, and there’s certainly a lot of good info in them as to how to build a DPS Guardian. I’ve been a Guardian since I started the game in November, and have played primarily an AH/EM build throughout this time. I play mostly PVE content, and a little bit of WvW. I’m growing tired of the open world solo, though, and would like to get into doing dungeons regularly. I’ve done the story modes of all but two, and a few exp modes in AC, CoF, and HotW.

The only problem with 0/0/30/30/10 for me now is that I feel like I’m wasting much of my potential. The few times I’ve done dungeons I’ve found myself dead quite a number of times despite my toughness-heavy build, so I’m not entirely sure I am getting as much bang for my buck there as I think.

I’ve read that survivability doesn’t really go down that much in a DPS build; many people seem to be of this opinion. However, in none of the threads I’ve read has anyone been very specific as to how survivability is sustained in a DPS build, particularly in a dungeon setting with a PUG (which will be my destiny). Is it a question of simply knowing the enemies so thoroughly by heart that you know exactly when to dodge their most destructive moves, or are we talking about damage negation through boons/food/skills?

Even with an AH/EM build, I’ve found myself in these simpler dungeons in situations where all my skills and endurance are blown, I’m near death, and the only option left is pretty much standing out of dmg range and wait. My concern with a DPS build, presumably being less defensive, that the increased damage output would be a moot point if I have to spend even more time out of the mob’s range just to stay upright.

It is undoubtedly a L2P issue, but that’s part of why I am asking in the first place.

As a dps guardian, your main form of survivability comes from aegis (retreat/ virtue of courage) and dodges. Plus killing fast means less time in danger also. To utilize dodges and aegis effectively, u have to be able to tell when the boss is going to cast the big hit and dodge or block it. U also have to move around the boss and not stand still and let him hit u.
The best example I can come up with is COE boss, subject alpha, if ur party stack against the boss, u only need to learn how to dodge his red aoe circle attack. Normally 1,2 dodge or 1,2,3 dodge depending on how fast u count. Toughness doesn’t matter much since his aoe is almost a one hit down cause they overlap…

You are right with your conclusion about the L2P issue, as far as I can tell from what you’ve written. What kind of armor do you use? Something like Knight’s, as “toughness-heavy build” suggests? Anyway, I don’t think that you’ll be happy with a DPS build unless you want to spend a lot of time practicing how to dodge. DPS builds don’t lack survivability if you know how to do that, but you seem to have quite some problems avoiding damage correctly. In a high-toughness AHEM, you should be nearly immortal, so if you already die often in that build, you’d probably spend most of the time dead in a DPS build.

If you want to try a DPS build, I do suggest looking into Valkyrie sets to mix in with Berserkers to increase your HP in addition to maintaining a high amount of Crit Damage for good survivability. Don’t forget that other than the usual Aegis and Dodges, it also depends on your weapon type. For example, with the Focus, you’ll have an additional 3 blocks. Also a good idea to use up Defiance stacks on the enemy with Scepter’s #3.

I personally run a Monk’s Focus, DPS build with meditations with a Sword/Torch and Scepter/Focus combination, enabling me to adapt to nearly any situation and at any range most content needs me to be in. Using a Superior Rune of Blood and certain food also allow me to maintain my HP through my high crit chance and damage as well.

Play as you like, as long as you have a synergy that works for you. High DPS Guardians usually have a signficiantly smaller window of error due to our low HP, but a skilled Guardian DPS can also significantly outlast one with the tools at his disposal.

Don’t forget that you aren’t totally forgoing your support capabilities when doing so as well; You’re still capable of removing conditions and healing with the Torch and Focus, with well-aimed uses. Otherwise, its a very “Selfish” build so to speak, and even if I do like the spec, admit thakittens not fully utilizing the Guardian’s full potential of party support when compared to a high boon duration build with might/protection stacks.

Even when using two-handed weapons instead, one good advantage we have over other classes is our sheer ability of placing light fields and to combo with ourselves. Telling your party members to utilize these fields can easily be a force multiplier when the going gets tough, continually removing conditions and applying the protection buff whenever you need it. If you prefer playing a shout-oriented AH/EM build instead, just do remember that you’ll really need to save those shouts for the moments that count, due to your lack of boon duration, eg. Stand your Ground for the godkitten Graveling Lurkers in AC for example.

CptAurellian.9537:

What kind of armor do you use? Something like Knight’s, as “toughness-heavy build” suggests?

Knight’s primarily. I’ve a set with Soldier runes, and a set with Divinity. I blew my laurels when I thought I’d never want to move out of the PVT comfort, so my trinkets reflect it: 4xPVT, 1xPPT. I do have PPC replacements for all the trinkets but they’re not ascended. I have enough gear options that I feel I can mix & match them to adjust the stats to where I want them, but as long as I am putting 30 into Honor and Valor, I’m not sure it makes much of a difference.

You can go (for AH) 0/0/30/30/10, 15/0/30/20/5 or 0/15/30/20/5, full zerker GS (or something else) / Staff. This works fine to me, I rarely get downed and I have an insane DPS.

Mikau.6920:

You can go (for AH) 0/0/30/30/10, 15/0/30/20/5 or 0/15/30/20/5, full zerker GS (or something else) / Staff. This works fine to me, I rarely get downed and I have an insane DPS.

Agreed, you don’t have to give up AH (and all that toughness/crit dmg) to dish out some serious damage, although you will not give the overwhelming bucketload of a full zerker build/gear. I run a 10/25/30/5/0 build with knight’s armor/divinity, zerker weps and zerker trinkets. Add sharpening stones and omnom pies if I’m dungeoning. I find this set-up gives me great damage while allowing me to get a bit reckless and wade into trash to lay down light and fire fields.

You really don’t need AH. If you really want to retain support, run Pure of Voice.

Mikau.6920:

You can go (for AH) 0/0/30/30/10, 15/0/30/20/5 or 0/15/30/20/5, full zerker GS (or something else) / Staff. This works fine to me, I rarely get downed and I have an insane DPS.

You have kitten dps.

Dub.1273:

Mikau.6920:

You can go (for AH) 0/0/30/30/10, 15/0/30/20/5 or 0/15/30/20/5, full zerker GS (or something else) / Staff. This works fine to me, I rarely get downed and I have an insane DPS.

You have kitten dps.

I wanted to be blunt as well but then I was like F**k it nobody listens.

swiftpaw.6397:

You really don’t need AH. If you really want to retain support, run Pure of Voice.

AH isn’t for support, AH is for sustain.

Mikau.6920:

swiftpaw.6397:

You really don’t need AH. If you really want to retain support, run Pure of Voice.

AH isn’t for support, AH is for sustain.

Oh god.

You don’t need sustain from AH.

Usually I get this excuse: ’I’m an anchor guardian. I provide good support by holding agro on all the mobs with AH keeping me up!’

This was better.

“this guy is really good at holding aggro”

Said no GW2 AI mob ever.

Sorry guys, I’m lost. Or I’m not understanding what you want to say or you aren’t understanding me. I tried to say that for a really good dps with sustain you can go FULL ZERKER (weapons, armor and trinkets) and reliable with AH/Staff when you are out of heal options (also, symbols helps to keep up).

For what I know AH (Altruistic Healing) only heals the guardian.

There’s a lot of speculation that higher toughness = aggro generation. Do you find that you’re always the one being focused down? Is that why you run out of dodges / aegis / blinds?

Mikau.6920:

For what I know AH (Altruistic Healing) only heals the guardian.

Yea I’m not sure why that constitutes as support to other people.

Mikau.6920:

Sorry guys, I’m lost. Or I’m not understanding what you want to say or you aren’t understanding me. I tried to say that for a really good dps with sustain you can go FULL ZERKER (weapons, armor and trinkets) and reliable with AH/Staff when you are out of heal options (also, symbols helps to keep up).

For what I know AH (Altruistic Healing) only heals the guardian.

If you are lost, it’s because people have an axe to grind. You have been trolled in this thread by proponents of the DPS-only approach to PVE. These specific individuals look down upon anyone that has survivability issues in a DPS setup. In otherwords, you offer a nice trolling target to them because in their perspective, everyone that doesn’t heavy-DPS or does DPS and can’t survive in PVE is a leecher, a noob and is knowingly countering the efforts of their team to complete content.

Ignore that nonsense. You are your own player and you do have options.

1. You can learn the DPS approach by learning the optimized use of your intrinsic dodges and heals. To do that, you need good knowledge of the encounters and knowing how anticipate and time your defensive tool usage. Even if you can do that … if your team isn’t playing the same DPS approach to self-survivability, your going to have a hard go.

2. As strongly as people are pushing the full DPS load, it is in you and your team’s best interests to have at least another set of gear you can fall back on in case you are getting focused and downed more often than you feel is reasonable.

You get focused more with a bit of toughness. Just learn the encounters and dont waste dodges, aegis, blinds. When switching to a dps guard take pure of voice so you have a bit more hp while you are practising with beserker gear (0/30/0/30/10). Pure of voice gives you very good team condi cleanse so its a decent trait to have. When you have more experience you can switch to 10/30/0/5/25.

Obtena.7952:

Ignore that nonsense. You are your own player and you do have options.

Be a strong independent guardian woman who don’t need no man!

Obtena.7952:

Mikau.6920:

Sorry guys, I’m lost. Or I’m not understanding what you want to say or you aren’t understanding me. I tried to say that for a really good dps with sustain you can go FULL ZERKER (weapons, armor and trinkets) and reliable with AH/Staff when you are out of heal options (also, symbols helps to keep up).

For what I know AH (Altruistic Healing) only heals the guardian.

If you are lost, it’s because people have an axe to grind. You have been trolled in this thread by proponents of the DPS-only approach to PVE. These specific individuals look down upon anyone that has survivability issues in a DPS setup. In otherwords, you offer a nice trolling target to them because in their perspective, everyone that doesn’t heavy-DPS or does DPS and can’t survive in PVE is a leecher, a noob and is knowingly countering the efforts of their team to complete content.

Ignore that nonsense. You are your own player and you do have options.

1. You can learn the DPS approach by learning the optimized use of your intrinsic dodges and heals. To do that, you need good knowledge of the encounters and knowing how anticipate and time your defensive tool usage. Even if you can do that … if your team isn’t playing the same DPS approach to self-survivability, your going to have a hard go.

2. As strongly as people are pushing the full DPS load, it is in you and your team’s best interests to have at least another set of gear you can fall back on in case you are getting focused and downed more often than you feel is reasonable.

If you want to run a zerk staff ele that deals 9.5k instead of 12k, I can deal with that. A 2.5k DPS loss is pretty severe in a speedclear group but if you can play properly with a staff I can accept it. Staff puts out fire fields and has good AOE so it’s not a total unilateral loss.

If on the other hand you want to run a subpar build with no redeeming merits other than to enable yourself to play lazily (assuming you are decent enough to play without the AH crutch) then you’re just purposefully being useless. And if you’re just going to be useless from the start, I might as well just run the dungeon with one less player and sell the slot at the end for some free cash.

There are plenty of ways to avoid damage (arguably even more ways) in a DPS build, for one thing if you invest at least 15 points into radiance you get a spammable AoE blind during trash mob encounters, that more than makes up for survivability issues since you’ll likely not get hit much if at all, during boss encounters you’ll roughly have the same since 300 toughness isn’t going to save you much damage when the boss deals so much with a single hit

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

If you want to run a zerk staff ele that deals 9.5k instead of 12k, I can deal with that. A 2.5k DPS loss is pretty severe in a speedclear group but if you can play properly with a staff I can accept it. Staff puts out fire fields and has good AOE so it’s not a total unilateral loss.

If on the other hand you want to run a subpar build with no redeeming merits other than to enable yourself to play lazily (assuming you are decent enough to play without the AH crutch) then you’re just purposefully being useless. And if you’re just going to be useless from the start, I might as well just run the dungeon with one less player and sell the slot at the end for some free cash.

All this is true, but only applies to whole teams, usually a pre-determined group, who are focused on competitive PVE; for example, clearing dungeons in record times. I might be on a limb here but it doesn’t sound like the OP is at that stage. I mean, selling team slots for cash? Is that even a real thing? Sounds like the way you are playing the game is exceptional.

Obtena.7952:

I mean, selling team slots for cash? Is that really a thing?

Run arah path 1 in 10-15 minutes, sell 4 slots for 8-10g each.

News flash: If you eat a big hit from any boss (Alpha red circle spam, golem 3shot/spin, Ascalon P2 shiny ground thing, etc), the next one is more likely going to down you, AH is not going to save your kitten , your healing skill (and dodges) is.
TL;DR: AH is useless, move along.

In GW2, Build and Stats got zero relation with Survivability in dungeon. However, skills of a player does.

I’m comfortable with having 14k HP and dealing best DPS, but some other guardian do not feel the same as i do. Thus its all bounce back to the player themself.

To comment about your build, no offense but i can imagine being in a slowpoke progress if anyone shall go to any dungeon with you.

I didn’t mean to invite an argument about DPS v. AH/EM, although I guess it was inevitable. I was primarily interested in how to maintain the same (or close as possible) level of self-sustainability in more offensive build as you find in an AH build. I had wondered whether there were specific skill sets, traits, weapons or some other tricks that enabled this survivability, or if it was simply a question of knowing the content so well you could run it with your eyes closed.

As an example I’ll use last night’s AC P1 run. We were 3 warriors and two guardians. Everything else went more or less fine but we had great difficulty with Hodgins. I don’t know how many times we failed it but it was over 5. I was left to guard the NPC while the rest went to kill the burrows on one side, then the other, and finally we’d do the one in the middle. It was fine at first, I was kiting them to the best of my ability, trying to keep the trail away from Hodgins yet grabbing the strays off of him. By the time my party passed Hodgins and moved to the other side, I had quite a lot of them on me and a lot of my skills down. Typically either the strays from the passing mates finished Hodgins or after one or two of the warriors had died on the burrows, the leftovers finished us both. At any rate, I switched my trinkets back to PVT options and I was still surviving with the skin of my teeth, eventually.

It wasn’t until later reading more about it that I found out you’re not supposed to pass Hodgins from behind, but I guess none of us knew it or there was something I as the protector was supposed to do to prevent strays from their trails from latching onto him. It was my fault for not reading a guide thoroughly before waltzing in there, but I also feel like this is not an atypical PUG experience. My guild doesn’t do events aside from bounty/rush/trek, so these are likely what I will have from hereon out.

I feel as though the defensive build allows me that “skin of my teeth” by which to live through the unexpected, but I also feel like there’s a certain amount of defensive overhead that just lingers there the rest of the time, doing nothing, contributing nothing. I want to provide the optimal contribution, within the confines of my skill and lack of experience. I’m trying to improve on both.

Probably someone already pointed this out in here, but if you want to bring defensive stuff as a guardian, just put pure of voice on, maybe use hammer to spam blast finishers and protection if you group really needs it (in case you’re playing with people that just reached l80 and doesn’t have gear, or just aren’t l80 at all) and swap utilities (Shield of the avenger, WoR, Purging Flames are great skills to have from time to time, also keep in mind that WoR scales of your critical chance and damage if i’m not mistaken).
About survival tricks… i guess it comes down to dodging and clutch aegis pop, using focus #5 and renewed focus to save yourself when needed, LoSing stuff at the right places, using sword #3 to block projectiles, using line and ring of warding, etc.

TL;DR: PvE survival and sustain (to be honest, there is no sustain in any real fight, everything is about healing yourself fast in case you get hit and then dodging the upcomming hits) in this game comes down to how well you know your class and the encounter you’re facing.

If you had more DPS, Hodgins wouldn’t have been a problem. In fact, one of the easiest ways to clear that fight with PUGs is to have ALL the pugs guard Hodgins while you as a zerker (guardian or ele works best) clear all the burrows solo. PUGs always try to leave 1-2 people at Hodgins while a bunch of low-DPS characters try to kill the burrows. That means that you don’t have either enough health to tank gravelings or enough DPS to burrows, and you’re just screwed.

Hi, wanted to share a little of my experiences as I find myself in the same shoes as OP. I PUG most of the time too, so I do have some armor pieces to switch just in case.

I did learn alot more about the class after dropping 30 Valor and Toughness/Vit gear. At first I switched my trinkets and weapons to Berserkers then gradually the armor pieces. I’m still not confident taking off 30 points in Honor, so I guess it’s more practice till I’m comfortable with a lower HP pool. I do feel discouraged at times when I get downed alot in the beginning, but it gets better Besides the numbers you see will make it tempting to play

One does have to be more proactive at dodging/positioning/activating skills and paying attention to the animations of bosses. Knowing your encounters helps alot and swapping utilties/weapons beforehand helps too.

I found most of the tips on surviving from the community: (GW2guru is also good if you’re looking for more DPScentric builds)

- 15 in Radiance would give you spammable blind for trash mobs
- using combos like light field from symbols or Wall to cure conditions
- keep protection up with hammer when you need it
- reflect projectiles / absorb with shield bubbles
- moving in fights/staying behind bosses
- Shelter, focus #5, aegis from Retreat / Virtue gives on demand block for the big hits if timed right
- getting your crit chance high for vigor if you have points in Honor
- Sigil of Energy if you need more dodges
- Renewed Focus gives invulnerability
- Virtue tree has good support (Absolute Resolution/Indomitable Courage) and increases your boon duration

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

If on the other hand you want to run a subpar build with no redeeming merits other than to enable yourself to play lazily (assuming you are decent enough to play without the AH crutch) then you’re just purposefully being useless. And if you’re just going to be useless from the start, I might as well just run the dungeon with one less player and sell the slot at the end for some free cash.

Truth

Obtena.7952:

If you are lost, it’s because people have an axe to grind. You have been trolled in this thread by proponents of the DPS-only approach to PVE. These specific individuals look down upon anyone that has survivability issues in a DPS setup. In otherwords, you offer a nice trolling target to them because in their perspective, everyone that doesn’t heavy-DPS or does DPS and can’t survive in PVE is a leecher, a noob and is knowingly countering the efforts of their team to complete content.

I see nothing but truth in the “dps-only approach to pve”. Stuff doesn’t die without dps. The only merits of non dps builds are to either hold the hands of sub par players or to compensate for self sub par play. If zerk players, of any class, can clear the content faster, more efficiently, and without excessive deaths….then what other conclusion can you come to? I’m not saying that full zerk is the only way, because hybrid builds are very nice in some cases. I’m just saying that focusing on toughness and vitality are a detriment to pve dungeon efficiency…therefore it is directly countering what most pve dungeon groups are trying to accomplish.

rojak.1894:

Hi, wanted to share a little of my experiences as I find myself in the same shoes as OP. I PUG most of the time too, so I do have some armor pieces to switch just in case.

I did learn alot more about the class after dropping 30 Valor and Toughness/Vit gear. At first I switched my trinkets and weapons to Berserkers then gradually the armor pieces. I’m still not confident taking off 30 points in Honor, so I guess it’s more practice till I’m comfortable with a lower HP pool. I do feel discouraged at times when I get downed alot in the beginning, but it gets better Besides the numbers you see will make it tempting to play

One does have to be more proactive at dodging/positioning/activating skills and paying attention to the animations of bosses. Knowing your encounters helps alot and swapping utilties/weapons beforehand helps too.

I found most of the tips on surviving from the community: (GW2guru is also good if you’re looking for more DPScentric builds)

- 15 in Radiance would give you spammable blind for trash mobs
- using combos like light field from symbols or Wall to cure conditions
- keep protection up with hammer when you need it
- reflect projectiles / absorb with shield bubbles
- moving in fights/staying behind bosses
- Shelter, focus #5, aegis from Retreat / Virtue gives on demand block for the big hits if timed right
- getting your crit chance high for vigor if you have points in Honor
- Sigil of Energy if you need more dodges
- Renewed Focus gives invulnerability
- Virtue tree has good support (Absolute Resolution/Indomitable Courage) and increases your boon duration

Excellent post for any trying to switch from turtle to dps.

ODB.6891:

Obtena.7952:

If you are lost, it’s because people have an axe to grind. You have been trolled in this thread by proponents of the DPS-only approach to PVE. These specific individuals look down upon anyone that has survivability issues in a DPS setup. In otherwords, you offer a nice trolling target to them because in their perspective, everyone that doesn’t heavy-DPS or does DPS and can’t survive in PVE is a leecher, a noob and is knowingly countering the efforts of their team to complete content.

I see nothing but truth in the “dps-only approach to pve”. Stuff doesn’t die without dps. The only merits of non dps builds are to either hold the hands of sub par players or to compensate for self sub par play. If zerk players, of any class, can clear the content faster, more efficiently, and without excessive deaths….then what other conclusion can you come to? I’m not saying that full zerk is the only way, because hybrid builds are very nice in some cases. I’m just saying that focusing on toughness and vitality are a detriment to pve dungeon efficiency…therefore it is directly countering what most pve dungeon groups are trying to accomplish.

Thumbs up!

ODB.6891:

The only merits of non dps builds are to either hold the hands of sub par players or to compensate for self sub par play.

Yes, and there are alot of players don’t play at that level needed for the DPS builds. Those players still need to exercise some level of competence when teaming. Ergo, non-dps builds have merit for them. It’s not a hard concept.

If the idea that non-optimized DPS players doing non-competitive content is so offensive to DPS people, then DPS people have the option to organize their own teams with each other. Forcing this “DPS-only for PVE” philosophy on players isn’t going to have much of an impact when it goes against the VALUE those players place on the ability to choose how they want to play, even if you think it’s bad.

For example, do you think the guy that wants a PVE/WvW build cares if a single build won’t be optimized for either? You simply don’t understand or respect how other people want to play the game. You guys might have a point if you paid the initial cost of the game and compensated people for their time to play. Only then can you tell them what and how to do it. Until then, you have no authority to dictate that people SHOULD be doing something in game, especially for those of you appealing to the sense of shame by insults and downplay of people’s capability.

PvE burning build. 110% done with this thread.

Obtena.7952:

For example, do you think the guy that wants a PVE/WvW build cares if a single build won’t be optimized for either? You simply don’t understand or respect how other people want to play the game. You guys might have a point if you paid the initial cost of the game and compensated people for their time to play. Only then can you tell them what and how to do it. Until then, you have no authority to dictate that people SHOULD be doing something in game, especially for those of you appealing to the sense of shame by insults and downplay of people’s capability.

It seems the guy in pvt paid for the initial cost of the game for the other 4 guys in the group. That must be why the guy in pvt has the authority to dictate that the run must go at a slower pace than needed. pvt guys are rich.

I missed the part where the PVT guy is complaining about DPS teammates … he’s not dictating anything. He doesn’t care what gear his teammates use. He doesn’t care if it takes a minute longer to finish a dungeon. He’s not going to shame you for the build your using. He’s not going to jump on people if they make a mistake. He’s just there to play the game because unlike you, he’s not putting arbitrary goals on non-competitive PVE content. You don’t get it. If you did, you would see why the DPS-only approach isn’t appropriate for everyone.

You do realise we only inform people dps is the way to go because the chances are atleast a few people will listen and then the proportion of properly built pugs increases slightly. Most of us who post on these forums dont run with pugs but getting people to pug with better builds is something all players should be encouraging. Slowing runs down and potentially ruining peoples experiences because of hour long runs with multiple wipes is not fair to those you are grouping with.

You’re telling that to someone who plays a burn build on a Guardian. He doesn’t care that people carry him through every dungeon he does.

spoj.9672:

You do realise we only inform people dps is the way to go because the chances are atleast a few people will listen and then the proportion of properly

Stopped reading there. What is proper to you is not necessary to play the game, have fun, complete PVE content, etc… Again, what you consider the ‘proper’ way to play is a matter of your opinion. You don’t seem to be the kind of person open-minded enough to realize there are many ways to play the game and not any of them is the most correct.

I’m not debating if DPS is the best for PVE. I agree that it’s how the game leans you in that ultimate direction. I’m just disagreeing that it’s what you have to do because of some preconceived player-instituted notion it’s the correct way to play.

You dont have to but its pretty selfish to slow the group down because of your awful build. Most players, even casual players, prefer to be useful. So telling them how to build an effective way to help their group is something they are all to happy to do. Not the case on the forums because everyone on forums is stubborn as hell (Im the same).

spoj.9672:

You dont have to but its pretty selfish to slow the group down because of your awful build.

Depends on the mentality of the group… again, there are some portion of people out there who honestly don’t care if they take some extra minutes to finish non-competitive PVE content. In those cases, player knowledge of the content far exceeds any build they are using. If your building a high-performance PVE group, you are going to filter those people out anyways.

Think about it … you’re trying to appeal to a group that doesn’t care about shaving seconds from a dungeon run with arguments about saving time. Your trying to appeal to a group of people who are self-centered and self-sufficient enough to run DPS builds in team PVE content about the merits of being a better teammate. I just don’t get what kind of convincing argument you have for either of those things.

The mentality of a group doesn’t make your build any less selfish.

colesy.8490:

The mentality of a group doesn’t make your build any less selfish.

It doesn’t actually matter what label you want to call a build if the team doesn’t care about someone’s build. Again, PVE isn’t a competitive element of the game unless you decide to make it that way. If that’s what you do, great. But your not going to convince people that don’t see PVE as competitive and make them realize that they HAVE to use a DPS build as the final conclusion.

It’s no more selfish to run a build your comfortable with than it is to tell people they have to run a DPS build. Again, the point you seem to miss is that you make the team based on your values, you don’t randomly create a team, then enforce your values on them.

The point you miss is your burn build is bad.

The average pug/player wants to complete dungeons smoothly and within a reasonable time frame. So the average group would prefer decentish dps. If your pugging you should atleast be building around some form of dps to be fair on the average player. If you want to play useless builds go play with your friends/guildmates. Just like we elitists do. Although generally pugs are all to happy to be carried by us, not sure they would be to happy having to carry a complete dead weight though.

Obtena.7952:

spoj.9672:

You dont have to but its pretty selfish to slow the group down because of your awful build.

Depends on the mentality of the group… again, there are some portion of people out there who honestly don’t care if they take some extra minutes to finish non-competitive PVE content. In those cases, player knowledge of the content far exceeds any build they are using. If your building a high-performance PVE group, you are going to filter those people out anyways.

Think about it … you’re trying to appeal to a group that doesn’t care about shaving seconds from a dungeon run with arguments about saving time. Your trying to appeal to a group of people who are self-centered and self-sufficient enough to run DPS builds in team PVE content about the merits of being a better teammate. I just don’t get what kind of convincing argument you have for either of those things.

I’m sure that is exactly what that one guy who joined who joined a dungeon midway then went “hey guys can you wait for ten minutes, jormag just started, please don’t kill anything cause i want the loot” thought.

It’s not about minmaxing speedclear times. It’s just having the basic consideration to actually help out in dungeons rather than just sitting there in the back doing nothing expecting everyone to do the work for you. Or are you going to defend the guy who just joins and afks at the entrance so he can get the dungeon reward, too?

^
Just what I was trying to say haha.