Guild Wars 2

This is a Thread created for the Ideas of the Guardian Community reagrding the Dragonhunter AND the Guardian. Post which kind of Traits, Skills and other Stuff you personally would love to see. Its not meant to be a Thread where People say “Your Idea is sh** and mine is better” or “Dragonhunter is fine, learn to play”. Just open your mind and share your Ideas no matter how crazy they are. Hopefully Anet considers some Ideas of this Thread as an Improvement to the Dragonhunter.

Let me start!

Hey Karl, I love seeing that you actually read our opinions and consider them when improving the DH I played alot of Professions since Guild Wars 2 Beta Weekends back like 3 years ago and made in the 2nd Beta Event the Guardian my Main. I played a lot of PvP on European Servers and like the Way the Dragonhunter is going, but still have a lot of doubts reagrding it. For me personally it seems the DH is by far the least liked Elite Spec till now and I would like to put some of my Ideas into the Discussion to make turn it to a highly wanted Crowd Pleaser. Maybe they will help improving not just the Dragonhunter, but the Gaurdian Issues in the first Place.

What is the Main Problem?

As far as i know Guardian is supposed to be the first one in the fight and the last one who leaves it. So why is my way of sustaining by blocks and heals such an unreliable way of sustaining? Don’t missunderstand me Guardian has alot of sustain in bunker builds, but this doesnt work on offensive builds, cause no matter how strong your heals are you will never be able to outheal the damage you get (except you play DD ele or Soldiers Engi). The better way of sustaining is avoiding the damage by mobility and dodges. Thats why War, Mes and Thief are often chosen in high Rank PvP Matches, while Necs and Guards rarely see the light of day (even though they do a really good amount of damage), so the Guards have to Stick to one Build – Bunker, which will get replaced by Defensive Revenant I guess. Compared to them Offensive Guards simply get hunted down at the moment, because of the power creep since the last balance update.

So what would I recommend?

1st Stop mixing offensive Capabilities of the Guardian with defensive ones. Like you do with our Meditations like “Smite Conditions” & “Judges Intervention” or with “Wings of Resolve”. Or even “Shattered Aegis” & “Smiters Boon”. How can sustain myself, when over 50% of my sustain is used up just to engage and do damage? Its simply a complete remake Guardians need. An example for a solution could be a Trait which knocks down enemies, when they get hit by “Smite Condition” and a Condition gets removed. the Trait could be a nice Master Trait, so it doesnt Conflict with “Hunter’s Fortification”. It could be called “Dragons Stomp” or something like that and would really benefit the control character of the Dragonhunter and would have a Great Synergy with “Smiters Boon”. Also i have to say the Blanacing Team of Anet did a Great Step in Seperating Offensive and Defensive Capabilities of the Guardian, by reworking “Hunter’s Fortification”. I like that Trait alot, because its a Pure Defensive one which removes Conditions on Block

2nd Pushing Guardians sustainability by getting rid of the extremly high cooldowns on the Virtues. I mean, just take Virtue of Courage. When you are fully invested in Virtues you have a 65,25s Cooldown for 1 Aegis, 5s Protection, and 4s Stability, which I simply cant understand. I remember in my first Beta Weekend 3 Years ago i tested some classes (Mesmer, Ele, War, Guardian) and the first thing I’ve noticed back then was “wow these are some crazy cooldowns on the Virtues.” and I bet alot of Guardians share the same experience. So here is my idea. I dont want to sound like someone who compares classes, cause they have differences in mechanic, but what do you think about implementing an Adept Trait (needs to be Adept please) in the Virtues line like the Mesmers one, which recharges the Virtues when you are below 50% health? It actually would Guardians make try other Elite Skills than “Renewed Focus” which would be really refreshing and awesome.

3rd and last one and please read before i get flamed how about giving the Dragonhunter an F4 Virtue, with a weak passive effect like “you blind your foe every 5th or 6th hit” or “10% movement speed increase” and making the active a ground target port with like 65-80 seconds cooldown. It would give the Guardian a little mobility, something like a last resort when things get really dirty, which cant be spammed, because of the high cooldown. That would solve so many problems regarding the Guardian. You could even name it somthing like “Last Resort” and would support the selfish character of the DH.

I hope you will consider some of my Ideas Karl when further improving the Dragonhunter, so that at the release day we all can be Happy with our Elite Specializations, no matter if Thief, Guardians, Wars and the others.

Cheers, Enis!

+ for the F4 and 25% movement speed and if you use that virtue it slows enemies for 2 sec with 30 sec cd.

traps are bad and visible – need change
no instant virtues – need change
trait – need change

we were the first spec shown and we are last in usefulness and will be least played if something doesen’t change

Ragnarox.9601:

+ for the F4 and 25% movement speed and if you use that virtue it slows enemies for 2 sec with 30 sec cd.

traps are bad and visible – need change
no instant virtues – need change
trait – need change

we were the first spec shown and we are last in usefulness and will be least played if something doesen’t change

Traps in general are the worst Utility Skill Class ingame, not used by thiefs and rarely by rangers. They have bad effects and i personally would never use a trap compared to my meditations or shouts.

traps should be symbols. that is all.

Well, I find little to none sustain on PvP, there’s absolutely no way to heal any conditions at all (i feel like we need a trait that could heal conditions with traps or a rune that actually can do that).

Traps take way waay too long to be landed, and even so, the healing trap is just well, awkward to use, I dont know what it is exactly but for PvP feels so difficult to endure a battle against any kind of clash, either the LB skills/traps take too long to hit or the traps just take too long to be landed and activated. (why can’t we actually throw them like the rangers did it before?)

I really want to love DH, even tho I hated the name/theme (still do but to a less degree), the skills and visuals are great imho but from a pvp perspective, it doesn’t fulfill the role it was intended to. Traps need to give some kind of survability through healing conds or giving boons, med skills do that, shouts do that too and consecrations also do that too. so why our traps can’t do that?

traps need to be symbols or new skills: wards. Traps are useless in pve, pvp or wvw.

snoow.1694:

Ragnarox.9601:

+ for the F4 and 25% movement speed and if you use that virtue it slows enemies for 2 sec with 30 sec cd.

traps are bad and visible – need change
no instant virtues – need change
trait – need change

we were the first spec shown and we are last in usefulness and will be least played if something doesen’t change

Traps in general are the worst Utility Skill Class ingame, not used by thiefs and rarely by rangers. They have bad effects and i personally would never use a trap compared to my meditations or shouts.

They are pve mostly skills, they will probably work on a large blob of DH and condi ranger trappers spamming all their stuff in lords room or momments before a enemy zerg breaks the gate.

Ragnarox.9601:

traps need to be symbols or new skills: wards. Traps are useless in pve, pvp or wvw.

No, I dont think so. No matter how they change Traps or which effects they add, traps will be nothing more, than another skill class of the guardian which will get never played, which is very sad, since guardian only plays shouts and meditaions because its whole sustain consists of them. as long as Anet doesnt fix these sustain issues with guardians we will never see guardians play something else than medis or shouts and “purging flames”

snoow.1694:

Ragnarox.9601:

traps need to be symbols or new skills: wards. Traps are useless in pve, pvp or wvw.

No, I dont think so. No matter how they change Traps or which effects they add, traps will be nothing more, than another skill class of the guardian which will get never played, which is very sad, since guardian only plays shouts and meditaions because its whole sustain consists of them. as long as Anet doesnt fix these sustain issues with guardians we will never see guardians play something else than medis or shouts and “purging flames”

They can nerf shouts and meditations so we can switch to revenants

Ragnarox.9601:

snoow.1694:

Ragnarox.9601:

traps need to be symbols or new skills: wards. Traps are useless in pve, pvp or wvw.

No, I dont think so. No matter how they change Traps or which effects they add, traps will be nothing more, than another skill class of the guardian which will get never played, which is very sad, since guardian only plays shouts and meditaions because its whole sustain consists of them. as long as Anet doesnt fix these sustain issues with guardians we will never see guardians play something else than medis or shouts and “purging flames”

They can nerf shouts and meditations so we can switch to revenants

They didn’t even need to do that to already convince me to switch to Revenant.

Black Box.9312:

Ragnarox.9601:

snoow.1694:

Ragnarox.9601:

traps need to be symbols or new skills: wards. Traps are useless in pve, pvp or wvw.

No, I dont think so. No matter how they change Traps or which effects they add, traps will be nothing more, than another skill class of the guardian which will get never played, which is very sad, since guardian only plays shouts and meditaions because its whole sustain consists of them. as long as Anet doesnt fix these sustain issues with guardians we will never see guardians play something else than medis or shouts and “purging flames”

They can nerf shouts and meditations so we can switch to revenants

They didn’t even need to do that to already convince me to switch to Revenant.

Thats the same way that i thought, i mean Guardian has at the moment around 3 builds that are playable in PvP, but are rarely seen in Team Queue because others are simply better.

Offensive Meditation Guards – completly outdatet due tue nerfs and no buffs. If i could choosr between an offguard or a war i would always take the war, because the lack of sustainability.

Burn Guard – High Dmg, but the same sustain problem as Power Guard.

Bunker Guard – Good Boon Supporter, Bunker and team condicleanser, but COMPLETLY outclassed by defensive revenant. Rev has better booms to share, can invul without loosing the point, awesome heals, which scales good with healing power AND the a huge amount of boon duration, which we guards dont habe anymore. Also they can knock back and control enemies. knowing that i wiuld always take rev before guard.

I dint want to sound like a crybaby, but im afraid that guardians will not be seen in competive pvp anymore

The problem with Dragonhunter is deeper than the specialization. Guardians are not in a good spot. I agree with the above post about PvP. After the trait shake up Guardians went from one really good build, mediations, to 3 mediocre builds that can be done better by other classes.

Here is what I want to see. Guardians should guard, that means being able to sustain and hold out which in my mind means crowd control effects. I feel the longbow should be our long range control weapons.

1 Skill- build in a blind effect
2 skill- I like the pierce
3 skill- add a knock back without having to trait. Traiting it makes the knock back random which means the Guard will hurt the group more than help because there will be knockbacks at the wrong time.
4 skill- would love if you kept the fire affect, but if you’re not make it a cleanse for conditions and pulse regeneration
5 skill- quicker, but meets what the bow should do anyways.

Traps should be ground targeted. They are magical so thematically this fits. Make traps more like cleansing fire. Give them an initial effect that benefits allies, a pulsing effect that hurts enemies, and a leaving affect that hurts enemies. This would make them more offensive compared to some of the consecration where are very support orientated.

We have too many passive traits that are now only applied AFTER we block, where prior to the class change were not. There are too many situational triggers for us to use our traits like blocking, rallying ourselves and rallying others. In most cases a heal, extra toughness or extra healing power AFTER we block is useless.

Here is what i would like to see:

Give shield #4 a 12 second cool down 2-3 second block like the Rev and Warrior have. (To keep with the theme have it so it heals 5% of the damage absorbed to the Guardian, and for “stalwart defender” have it affect 5 players in a radius. ) I hate having to use my heal skill (shelter) like a shield. It’s the best active block we have.

Shield #5 i like the bubble, but have it INCREASE in size every second doing an additional knockback each time it grows (also increasing the detonation effect based on stage)
stage 1- heals 1300
stage 2- heals and grants protection to 5 players in the shield
stage 3- also grants aegis
stage 4- also grants might

Have all the after block abilities be offensive for instance, gain might or retaliation after a block, or make the next attack after a block unblockable.

Another idea for a trait in the Virtues line would be, cool downs for resolve and courage are reduced based on current health (above 75%, below 75% and below 50% reduce by 15%, 25% then 40%).

For the mace, on Invigorated Bulwark, instead of making the healing based on blocking, have it based on how many enemies are hit by Symbol of Faith. This makes more sense than having it block based.

Give Guardian taunt. This class could really benefit from all this new tech A-Net has and it feels a little left behind. Could apply taunt on Virtue of Justice active effect.

For Virtues, with the current tech, and the new abilities coming out, we need to be more competitive. As it is, for a bunker support, we have already been replaced with Rev, Warrior, even a water-earth Elle. So, here is what i suggest:

Have the base virtues a toggle, much like the Revenant’s aspects. Have a passive selfish version and an active shared version. Don’t punish the Guardian when using his class mechanic by taking away his chances for survival or DPS.

Delgotta.3817:

We have too many passive traits that are now only applied AFTER we block, where prior to the class change were not. There are too many situational triggers for us to use our traits like blocking, rallying ourselves and rallying others. In most cases a heal, extra toughness or extra healing power AFTER we block is useless.

Here is what i would like to see:

Give shield #4 a 12 second cool down 2-3 second block like the Rev and Warrior have. (To keep with the theme have it so it heals 5% of the damage absorbed to the Guardian, and for “stalwart defender” have it affect 5 players in a radius. ) I hate having to use my heal skill (shelter) like a shield. It’s the best active block we have.

Shield #5 i like the bubble, but have it INCREASE in size every second doing an additional knockback each time it grows (also increasing the detonation effect based on stage)
stage 1- heals 1300
stage 2- heals and grants protection to 5 players in the shield
stage 3- also grants aegis
stage 4- also grants might

Have all the after block abilities be offensive for instance, gain might or retaliation after a block, or make the next attack after a block unblockable.

Another idea for a trait in the Virtues line would be, cool downs for resolve and courage are reduced based on current health (above 75%, below 75% and below 50% reduce by 15%, 25% then 40%).

For the mace, on Invigorated Bulwark, instead of making the healing based on blocking, have it based on how many enemies are hit by Symbol of Faith. This makes more sense than having it block based.

Give Guardian taunt. This class could really benefit from all this new tech A-Net has and it feels a little left behind. Could apply taunt on Virtue of Justice active effect.

For Virtues, with the current tech, and the new abilities coming out, we need to be more competitive. As it is, for a bunker support, we have already been replaced with Rev, Warrior, even a water-earth Elle. So, here is what i suggest:

Have the base virtues a toggle, much like the Revenant’s aspects. Have a passive selfish version and an active shared version. Don’t punish the Guardian when using his class mechanic by taking away his chances for survival or DPS.

I have to say I like your Ideas alot your idea would make me even play my shield, since at the moment shield is nothing more than a weapon with weak skills, which have low cd.

Also I think the same way as you. Dragonhunter and Guardian in general didnt get anything new Anet implemented in the game, since they announced HoT. I was hoping , that guardians may get taunt, but nothing happened. Tbh Dragonhunter feels like no one really cared about it, there is no funny trait, the utilities are complete garbage (even with groundtarget i would ever use a trap over a medi) and the fact that it was one of the first elite specs annouced makes me really feel this way :/

I was also thinking that when traited, shield #5 could also do an aoe rally, kinda like the necro trait in the blood line, but only applies to those under the dome.

Delgotta.3817:

I was also thinking that when traited, shield #5 could also do an aoe rally, kinda like the necro trait in the blood line, but only applies to those under the dome.

Wow dude you have some great ideas i love them, rally as a Weaponskill would be a really nice, since thief also got an instafinish as a elite skill i would play that

seems the discussion here pretty much fell asleep :/

snoow.1694:

seems the discussion here pretty much fell asleep :/

prob cause devs were “unable” to include all the changes in the last bwe, so bwe2 drangonhunter was basically already out of date.

delaying giving us those updates means they only have 1 bwe left for us to qq about before its live.

once its live, they can essentially just ignore it like they have wit most guard req’s.

if they had actually pushed all the updates so we could test in bwe2, then they’d have to continue to work on it. whereas right now, they can say, ‘look bwe2 didn’t count cause we couldn’t put all those updates in there, just wait until bwe3’ and they can just ignore dragonhunter until bwe3 and point to those updates they said are coming but we haven’t seen yet

Jaxom.7310:

snoow.1694:

seems the discussion here pretty much fell asleep :/

prob cause devs were “unable” to include all the changes in the last bwe, so bwe2 drangonhunter was basically already out of date.

delaying giving us those updates means they only have 1 bwe left for us to qq about before its live.

once its live, they can essentially just ignore it like they have wit most guard req’s.

if they had actually pushed all the updates so we could test in bwe2, then they’d have to continue to work on it. whereas right now, they can say, ‘look bwe2 didn’t count cause we couldn’t put all those updates in there, just wait until bwe3’ and they can just ignore dragonhunter until bwe3 and point to those updates they said are coming but we haven’t seen yet

I totally share your opinion, guardians get so often left aside by anet that it makes me angry. However I’ve also learned, that just saying “Anet you dont care about Guards” and being disrespectful to anet, no matter how much everyone wants it won’t solve any problems. Thats why I made this thread. To make people bring up some constructive ideas for Anet and maybe some of them get some attention, at least i like some ideas mentioned in this post also its better than doing nothing :P

right now, i’m working on a few more ideas inline with my previous suggestions, but want to put them in a cohesive form. I am looking through many of the guardian traits and creating a much more realized concept of WHO the guardian is.

here is a sample of a few new idea i had for traits:

King of Kings: has a 20% chance on critical OR when you rally a player to spawn a lesser “sword of justice” (max 5) that remains for 20 seconds and does 40% of the swords regular damage. the sword automatically uses command when destroyed.

Will of the martyr: provides nearby players with a damage reduction of 20% when virtue of courage is used for 5 seconds, but 5% of the damage is instead taken by the guardian. (this in conjunction with the shield idea could create a nice burst heal and damage mitigation, but poorly timed may get you one shot, creating a strategic risk-reward gameplay)

i have a few other trait ideas that would work well with these.

snoow.1694:

I totally share your opinion, guardians get so often left aside by anet that it makes me angry.

I think I’ve this statement posted in every other profession’s forum page over the past month, just replacing ‘Guardian’ with whatever profession that forum is dedicated to. Even just a few minutes ago before coming here I can remember off the top of my head seeing it in the Engineer, Ranger, Necromancer and even Mesmer forums. Maybe its just an MMO thing, because I see it everywhere, but every class/profession seems to be the most ignored and most paid attention too, all at the same time, just depends who you ask.

Sorry though, back on topic, just amusing consider how I read that same statement in different places in just the span of about 20 minutes.

Delgotta had a lot of great points to help move Guardian in the right direction. I’ve always loved shields in MMOs, but here they just seems very under used expect in a tiny handful of cases.

It might a simple request, and nowhere near as pressing as the other big issues that Guardians have. However, I’d like it if they added a trait or change to a utility, that could help with our mobility a bit. Every other professions seems to have a way to keep up at least a good amount of swiftness, if not a flat +25% movement speed. We seems to suffer greatly from a lack of disengage when the going gets a little out of hand.

I fear though that Dragonhunter mostly suffers from just a lack of purpose. I think this could be said about most, if not all the Elite Specializations. Whether conscious or unconscious, I think its become too embedded that Elite means must have. I have been seeing more ideas on how to use the specializations, but dropping the new weapon that comes with them just for some of the utilities and traits. Don’t really see that happening with Dragonhunter though. Very little synergy exists between the Dragonhunter trait line and our other ones. Even more so for Traps. Dragon’s Maw really seems to be the only worth while trap, imo, but even then, other elite skills I think just work better with the rest of our toolkit.

I was really hopeful for the Dragonhunter, the concept around it anyways, because I love bows, generally combined with magic. When I first heard about them, I sort of jumped the gun and thought it’d be a nice substitute for Ice Bow with some flare. I was looking forward to a different range style, because I’ve always found scepter to be rather boring and bland. My friend always compared the painfully slow moving auto attack of scepter, to a dodge ball that even the second to last picked kid could catch and get you out. I personally always felt that the scepter auto attack should be a beam of holy fire, similar to the elementalist lightning scepter auto or Mesmer’s GS auto.

Lokicore.4027:

snoow.1694:

I totally share your opinion, guardians get so often left aside by anet that it makes me angry.

I think I’ve this statement posted in every other profession’s forum page over the past month, just replacing ‘Guardian’ with whatever profession that forum is dedicated to. Even just a few minutes ago before coming here I can remember off the top of my head seeing it in the Engineer, Ranger, Necromancer and even Mesmer forums. Maybe its just an MMO thing, because I see it everywhere, but every class/profession seems to be the most ignored and most paid attention too, all at the same time, just depends who you ask.

Sorry though, back on topic, just amusing consider how I read that same statement in different places in just the span of about 20 minutes.

Delgotta had a lot of great points to help move Guardian in the right direction. I’ve always loved shields in MMOs, but here they just seems very under used expect in a tiny handful of cases.

It might a simple request, and nowhere near as pressing as the other big issues that Guardians have. However, I’d like it if they added a trait or change to a utility, that could help with our mobility a bit. Every other professions seems to have a way to keep up at least a good amount of swiftness, if not a flat +25% movement speed. We seems to suffer greatly from a lack of disengage when the going gets a little out of hand.

I fear though that Dragonhunter mostly suffers from just a lack of purpose. I think this could be said about most, if not all the Elite Specializations. Whether conscious or unconscious, I think its become too embedded that Elite means must have. I have been seeing more ideas on how to use the specializations, but dropping the new weapon that comes with them just for some of the utilities and traits. Don’t really see that happening with Dragonhunter though. Very little synergy exists between the Dragonhunter trait line and our other ones. Even more so for Traps. Dragon’s Maw really seems to be the only worth while trap, imo, but even then, other elite skills I think just work better with the rest of our toolkit.

I was really hopeful for the Dragonhunter, the concept around it anyways, because I love bows, generally combined with magic. When I first heard about them, I sort of jumped the gun and thought it’d be a nice substitute for Ice Bow with some flare. I was looking forward to a different range style, because I’ve always found scepter to be rather boring and bland. My friend always compared the painfully slow moving auto attack of scepter, to a dodge ball that even the second to last picked kid could catch and get you out. I personally always felt that the scepter auto attack should be a beam of holy fire, similar to the elementalist lightning scepter auto or Mesmer’s GS auto.

Yeah what you mentioned about every class feeling left aside by Anet is true, I admit that but in my opinion its another thing with guardians. Litterally EVERY guardian is sick of hearing the words “guardian is in a good spot” and seeing nothing but some bigfixes and nerfs on the balance updates. Also you have to admid that the dissatisfaction about the Dragonhunter is by far the strongest. I dont know about you and it may just be me, but ive seen alot of daredevils, chronos, berserks and reapers, while ive seen deahonhunters and tempests very rarely in PvP i tried every elite spec right now and DH just feels like anet rushed it to finish it fast, it feels uncreative and is paradox running a rage class with traps (which i even wouldnt play when they woulf be ground target – traps suck) and thats why Our Guard community is so upset with it. Hearing litterally every balance update “Guard is in a good spot” and getting such an uncreative and rushed elite spec ofc makes this community rage. I personally just want to be viable in HoT PvP, not OP (i dont want any scrub switching to guard) – just viable enough for my team, because at the moment guardian is sure NOT in a good spot

But also i have to say i like your ideas alot too, i thought about the scepter idea too. I can see that you know what you are talking about and understand the class mechanic of guardians very well. Hope Anet considers some of your ideas, they are great

DH don’t have traits like “% of precision, power into vitality” no 25% moving traits, no real condi synergies, no real condi dmg, no “increasing power, critical chance” when you apply condition or something, it’s just dull like you wield a LB and thats it. Dudue who invented DH had no vision at all, it’s like taking traps and longbow and ta-da you have dragonhunter. It’s the worst spec of them all. Its fun at start but when everyone start to melt you down like ice cream then its not fun anymore. I see lots of weekend warriors saying its fun, yes its fun for you but for us that really care for guardians in pve,pvp and wvw its not that fun at all. “we are in a good spot” is destroying guardians because there are no efforts to make us viable and better in some situations.

Ragnarox.9601:

DH don’t have traits like “% of precision, power into vitality” no 25% moving traits, no real condi synergies, no real condi dmg, no “increasing power, critical chance” when you apply condition or something, it’s just dull like you wield a LB and thats it. Dudue who invented DH had no vision at all, it’s like taking traps and longbow and ta-da you have dragonhunter. It’s the worst spec of them all. Its fun at start but when everyone start to melt you down like ice cream then its not fun anymore. I see lots of weekend warriors saying its fun, yes its fun for you but for us that really care for guardians in pve,pvp and wvw its not that fun at all. “we are in a good spot” is destroying guardians because there are no efforts to make us viable and better in some situations.

Wasnt that what longbow guardians wanted? just a blant class that needs to shoot from range based on high AA damage, like some classes were being played at that time?

Altough:
Dragonhunter Heavy Light — Longbow arrows knock back when enemies are within the range threshold.

More range meta, for sure it will be nerfed, since every class will complain that DH can put out of capture point…
Also this means more condi range will be very good against that class unless speced with some shout but even that is easy to burn (with the actual game).

snoow.1694:

Yeah what you mentioned about every class feeling left aside by Anet is true, I admit that but in my opinion its another thing with guardians. Litterally EVERY guardian is sick of hearing the words “guardian is in a good spot” and seeing nothing but some bigfixes and nerfs on the balance updates. Also you have to admid that the dissatisfaction about the Dragonhunter is by far the strongest. I dont know about you and it may just be me, but ive seen alot of daredevils, chronos, berserks and reapers, while ive seen deahonhunters and tempests very rarely in PvP i tried every elite spec right now and DH just feels like anet rushed it to finish it fast, it feels uncreative and is paradox running a rage class with traps (which i even wouldnt play when they woulf be ground target – traps suck) and thats why Our Guard community is so upset with it. Hearing litterally every balance update “Guard is in a good spot” and getting such an uncreative and rushed elite spec ofc makes this community rage. I personally just want to be viable in HoT PvP, not OP (i dont want any scrub switching to guard) – just viable enough for my team, because at the moment guardian is sure NOT in a good spot

But also i have to say i like your ideas alot too, i thought about the scepter idea too. I can see that you know what you are talking about and understand the class mechanic of guardians very well. Hope Anet considers some of your ideas, they are great

It comes down to a case of indirect nerfing. I’ve seen it many many times in other MMOs and MOBAs. Class X is in a good spot, they are among the favored in game mode 1, 2, 3 and 4. With Class X in a good spot, no real need to work on it, lets help the others “Catch Up”. Class Y and Z get some twinks and reworks. Now I don’t know too in-depth about Anet’s twinking and rework history, but I do know with other devs in other companies, these twinks and reworks tend to overshot the mark. Or what I’ve come to call Knee Jerk. So, now Class Y and Z are a little above, or maybe a little below Class X. A little more work is needed, they’re on a roll. Remember though, Class X is in a good spot, we’ll keep him there as the middle base. With heavier focus on Class Y and Z, their buffs, twinks and reworks have, even though Class X is the middle base, actually nerfed them by not touching them, because now Y and Z have moved up in the favored status and become ‘better’ at the tasks at hand. Before it was, in order from top to bottom, X, Y, Z, now has become Y,Z,X.

What this has created, is the famous Flavor of the Month. Leap frogging through alts while you swing with the meta.

So why can’t you have you have X, Y and Z all on a middle line? Well, as that might be the dream of every Dev, its not possible. If you do, then every class is just the same class with maybe different appearance models. Yay boring. Even then though, you can’t balance players.

One of the biggest things that drew me to this game was they’ve concept of “Bring the player, not the Profession.” I still think GW2 is among the closets MMO to actually reach that goal. The upcoming Raid concept is going to bring in a new chapter though, and there is a lot riding on it and how well that concept is going to hold up. Even today, its still “Bring the player, not the Profession… Except these two Professions.” Yes I’ve heard of certain that even among those exiled professions from whatever game mode they bottom out on, there exist a few that are able to do ‘well’ in it. But, this is more for the community at large. My buddy plays a Necro and has been rejected on several accounts in dungeons because it would make their run 5-10 minutes longer. So sad.

Aeolus.3615:

Wasnt that what longbow guardians wanted? just a blant class that needs to shoot from range based on high AA damage, like some classes were being played at that time?

Altough:
Dragonhunter Heavy Light — Longbow arrows knock back when enemies are within the range threshold.

More range meta, for sure it will be nerfed, since every class will complain that DH can put out of capture point…
Also this means more condi range will be very good against that class unless speced with some shout but even that is easy to burn (with the actual game).

Yes we wanted long range good weapon instead of slow scepter and we got scepter v2. They said that will improve projectile speed so we will see.
plus DH traits are bad especially minor one. No synergies with actual guardian. Even virtues got casting time.

Plus we got traps because spirit weapons needed a friend to play with in “worhless unused and forgotten” zone.

I had high hopes for Dragonhunter but it sucks like it’s name.

Lokicore.4027:

snoow.1694:

Yeah what you mentioned about every class feeling left aside by Anet is true, I admit that but in my opinion its another thing with guardians. Litterally EVERY guardian is sick of hearing the words “guardian is in a good spot” and seeing nothing but some bigfixes and nerfs on the balance updates. Also you have to admid that the dissatisfaction about the Dragonhunter is by far the strongest. I dont know about you and it may just be me, but ive seen alot of daredevils, chronos, berserks and reapers, while ive seen deahonhunters and tempests very rarely in PvP i tried every elite spec right now and DH just feels like anet rushed it to finish it fast, it feels uncreative and is paradox running a rage class with traps (which i even wouldnt play when they woulf be ground target – traps suck) and thats why Our Guard community is so upset with it. Hearing litterally every balance update “Guard is in a good spot” and getting such an uncreative and rushed elite spec ofc makes this community rage. I personally just want to be viable in HoT PvP, not OP (i dont want any scrub switching to guard) – just viable enough for my team, because at the moment guardian is sure NOT in a good spot

But also i have to say i like your ideas alot too, i thought about the scepter idea too. I can see that you know what you are talking about and understand the class mechanic of guardians very well. Hope Anet considers some of your ideas, they are great

It comes down to a case of indirect nerfing. I’ve seen it many many times in other MMOs and MOBAs. Class X is in a good spot, they are among the favored in game mode 1, 2, 3 and 4. With Class X in a good spot, no real need to work on it, lets help the others “Catch Up”. Class Y and Z get some twinks and reworks. Now I don’t know too in-depth about Anet’s twinking and rework history, but I do know with other devs in other companies, these twinks and reworks tend to overshot the mark. Or what I’ve come to call Knee Jerk. So, now Class Y and Z are a little above, or maybe a little below Class X. A little more work is needed, they’re on a roll. Remember though, Class X is in a good spot, we’ll keep him there as the middle base. With heavier focus on Class Y and Z, their buffs, twinks and reworks have, even though Class X is the middle base, actually nerfed them by not touching them, because now Y and Z have moved up in the favored status and become ‘better’ at the tasks at hand. Before it was, in order from top to bottom, X, Y, Z, now has become Y,Z,X.

What this has created, is the famous Flavor of the Month. Leap frogging through alts while you swing with the meta.

So why can’t you have you have X, Y and Z all on a middle line? Well, as that might be the dream of every Dev, its not possible. If you do, then every class is just the same class with maybe different appearance models. Yay boring. Even then though, you can’t balance players.

One of the biggest things that drew me to this game was they’ve concept of “Bring the player, not the Profession.” I still think GW2 is among the closets MMO to actually reach that goal. The upcoming Raid concept is going to bring in a new chapter though, and there is a lot riding on it and how well that concept is going to hold up. Even today, its still “Bring the player, not the Profession… Except these two Professions.” Yes I’ve heard of certain that even among those exiled professions from whatever game mode they bottom out on, there exist a few that are able to do ‘well’ in it. But, this is more for the community at large. My buddy plays a Necro and has been rejected on several accounts in dungeons because it would make their run 5-10 minutes longer. So sad.

I think the word you’re looking for is “tweak”, not “twink”. Twink means something else entirely. >_>

But you’re right about the “indirect nerfing” part. That’s what’s been plaguing Guardian players since launch. We’ve never been nerfed to the ground (although we have been nerfed), but by assuming that we’re doing just fine Anet has effectively left Guardian players in the dust while other classes have gotten the attention they needed to play catch-up, which then renders the Guardian obsolete.

Delgotta.3817:

right now, i’m working on a few more ideas inline with my previous suggestions, but want to put them in a cohesive form. I am looking through many of the guardian traits and creating a much more realized concept of WHO the guardian is.

here is a sample of a few new idea i had for traits:

King of Kings: has a 20% chance on critical OR when you rally a player to spawn a lesser “sword of justice” (max 5) that remains for 20 seconds and does 40% of the swords regular damage. the sword automatically uses command when destroyed.

Will of the martyr: provides nearby players with a damage reduction of 20% when virtue of courage is used for 5 seconds, but 5% of the damage is instead taken by the guardian. (this in conjunction with the shield idea could create a nice burst heal and damage mitigation, but poorly timed may get you one shot, creating a strategic risk-reward gameplay)

i have a few other trait ideas that would work well with these.

Dude ive totally overseen this idea of you and I like them really much and would love to hear some more ideas of you they seem neither too weak nor too op in my opinion

Also what would you guys think about changing deflecting shot into a shot which creates a Wall of Reflection on his paths for 2 seconds which disappears then again?

is anyone happy with the new changes that are coming with BWE3?

not really. the class mechanic needed a serious overhaul to bring it in line with other class mechanics, unfortunately the Dragonhunter now limits any future changes with how it treats virtues (like 3 lackluster utility skills). I realize that the Guardian needed a solid ranged option, but instead of improving scepter, which just needed a projectile speed increase, we got bow. may as well of given us a main hand shield for all it was worth. instead of fixing a problem we got an alternative problem. bow and traps don’t feel “guardian-ish” to me.

an offhand war horn that temporary summons spirits of heroes (like mesmer clones but think lord of the rings with aragorn and the ghost soldiers) or call down pillars of holy fire would of been a better step in a guardian direction.

got another trait idea:
valor grandmaster
sacred ground: leaving a symbol before it ends causes 1 second of stun.

i was initially thinking of having an effect like hammer#5 on symbols as a control mechanic, but thought that was too punishing, so a stun effect for prematurely leaving a symbol gives a control option for mace and staff guardians for support. this can also work great for greatsword for preventing mobs from instantly scattering or some idiot from using aoe knockback after you just finished gathering with gs #5.

granted stability can still counter this.

Delgotta.3817:

got another trait idea:
valor grandmaster
sacred ground: leaving a symbol before it ends causes 1 second of stun.

i was initially thinking of having an effect like hammer#5 on symbols as a control mechanic, but thought that was too punishing, so a stun effect for prematurely leaving a symbol gives a control option for mace and staff guardians for support. this can also work great for greatsword for preventing mobs from instantly scattering or some idiot from using aoe knockback after you just finished gathering with gs #5.

granted stability can still counter this.

this is great except u put it in valor. I’d even take this over that zeal symbol trait. in fact merge this w/ that zeal trait, and i’d be ok with the measly 10% dmg bonus

• Traps are a fail concept and nothing more than a gimmick. I don’t even know what to do, honestly.
• Requires consistently hitting ranged attack that isn’t trivially dodged or reliant on specific conditions

Anything else cannot work, if the foundation is shaky like this. No spec can be fun if performing basic actions and attacks is so cumbersome.

Unfortunately, I imagine this would take a revamp and outright rejecting an idea is going to step on a few toes, so I don’t see any good news until months in. Honestly, this date for HoT seems pretty rushed, IMO, so I do not expect anything.

Delgotta.3817:

an offhand war horn that temporary summons spirits of heroes (like mesmer clones but think lord of the rings with aragorn and the ghost soldiers) or call down pillars of holy fire would of been a better step in a guardian direction.

i am no guard main, but i am a strong sympathizer, but i say i love the idea of a warhorn.
i can imagine that for a paragon like spec. U use the warhorn to call down divine spears and godly powers while using echos or chants. I can think of a nice looking spec.
but to make it, u need to push it, anet mentioned they like the idea of tomes for a later spec, so i think of a librarian like spec

ideally, i want to have a theme for each trait line, and have each line have a flavor and a spec concept. there are alot of useless traits that dont make sense.

I also dont think that having monks focus and altruistic healing in competing spots is a good idea. altruistic healing feels more like a honor trait, as its about boons. monks focus i would put in zeal as its more about conditions.

valor feels more like a defensive line about taking hits (which in itself is against the gw2 idea as evasion is defense and taking hits is often fatal in most cases.) for stalwart defender i would change it so while a shield is equipped, you are immune to critical hits.

add in a trait that gives you a 33% chance to gain retaliation upon being hit

2nd trait: when hit while under the effects of retaliation, cause burning to the attacker.

3rd trait: 15% damage reduction while virtue of courage is on cooldown.

Delgotta.3817:

ideally, i want to have a theme for each trait line, and have each line have a flavor and a spec concept. there are alot of useless traits that dont make sense.

I also dont think that having monks focus and altruistic healing in competing spots is a good idea. altruistic healing feels more like a honor trait, as its about boons. monks focus i would put in zeal as its more about conditions.

valor feels more like a defensive line about taking hits (which in itself is against the gw2 idea as evasion is defense and taking hits is often fatal in most cases.) for stalwart defender i would change it so while a shield is equipped, you are immune to critical hits.

add in a trait that gives you a 33% chance to gain retaliation upon being hit

2nd trait: when hit while under the effects of retaliation, cause burning to the attacker.

3rd trait: 15% damage reduction while virtue of courage is on cooldown.

I really love your Trait Ideas with the retaliation and the burn on reta, I also like the 15% dmg reduction while courage is on cooldown, tbh i wish Anet would consider your ideas while balancing the guardians, they are REALLY creative

But I also have to say Immunity against Crits while wielding a shield might be to strong, make it “immunity against crits while you are below 50% or 30% health while wielding a shield” sounds still really really op, but would definitly make me play shield instad of scepter. That are some ideas which would make shield viable, not reducing the cooldowns, like anet likes to do.

Keep going mate I really love your ideas

snoow.1694:

Delgotta.3817:

ideally, i want to have a theme for each trait line, and have each line have a flavor and a spec concept. there are alot of useless traits that dont make sense.

I also dont think that having monks focus and altruistic healing in competing spots is a good idea. altruistic healing feels more like a honor trait, as its about boons. monks focus i would put in zeal as its more about conditions.

valor feels more like a defensive line about taking hits (which in itself is against the gw2 idea as evasion is defense and taking hits is often fatal in most cases.) for stalwart defender i would change it so while a shield is equipped, you are immune to critical hits.

add in a trait that gives you a 33% chance to gain retaliation upon being hit

2nd trait: when hit while under the effects of retaliation, cause burning to the attacker.

3rd trait: 15% damage reduction while virtue of courage is on cooldown.

I really love your Trait Ideas with the retaliation and the burn on reta, I also like the 15% dmg reduction while courage is on cooldown, tbh i wish Anet would consider your ideas while balancing the guardians, they are REALLY creative

But I also have to say Immunity against Crits while wielding a shield might be to strong, make it “immunity against crits while you are below 50% or 30% health while wielding a shield” sounds still really really op, but would definitly make me play shield instad of scepter. That are some ideas which would make shield viable, not reducing the cooldowns, like anet likes to do.

Keep going mate I really love your ideas

tha positivity from dis guy, must be new to guard forums…

elementalist has a crit immunity while attuned to earth, which gives alot more utility than crit immunity while only using shield. weapon swap at the wrong time and BAM! dead. the swap cooldown also locks you into being defenseless. timing can become a strategic element.

Jaxom.7310:

snoow.1694:

Delgotta.3817:

ideally, i want to have a theme for each trait line, and have each line have a flavor and a spec concept. there are alot of useless traits that dont make sense.

I also dont think that having monks focus and altruistic healing in competing spots is a good idea. altruistic healing feels more like a honor trait, as its about boons. monks focus i would put in zeal as its more about conditions.

valor feels more like a defensive line about taking hits (which in itself is against the gw2 idea as evasion is defense and taking hits is often fatal in most cases.) for stalwart defender i would change it so while a shield is equipped, you are immune to critical hits.

add in a trait that gives you a 33% chance to gain retaliation upon being hit

2nd trait: when hit while under the effects of retaliation, cause burning to the attacker.

3rd trait: 15% damage reduction while virtue of courage is on cooldown.

I really love your Trait Ideas with the retaliation and the burn on reta, I also like the 15% dmg reduction while courage is on cooldown, tbh i wish Anet would consider your ideas while balancing the guardians, they are REALLY creative

But I also have to say Immunity against Crits while wielding a shield might be to strong, make it “immunity against crits while you are below 50% or 30% health while wielding a shield” sounds still really really op, but would definitly make me play shield instad of scepter. That are some ideas which would make shield viable, not reducing the cooldowns, like anet likes to do.

Keep going mate I really love your ideas

tha positivity from dis guy, must be new to guard forums…

Well tbh I play Guardian in competive PvP since BWE1 i just think hate in a game which is supposed to make fun is kinda meh :>

ok, i have to say that after going through the guardian traits, there are so many redundancies and needlessly pointless skills that make no sense. like strenght of the fallen (condi cleanse) and smiters boon (condi cleanse). a fully traited medi build severely out powers strength of the fallen. and the rest of the skills are all “on block” abilities. unlike many other classes, there is absolutely no theme or direction to the traits. ive made some progress with my rebuild, but it will take some time.

please keep suggestions flowing so i can include them in the revision.

Delgotta.3817:

ok, i have to say that after going through the guardian traits, there are so many redundancies and needlessly pointless skills that make no sense. like strenght of the fallen (condi cleanse) and smiters boon (condi cleanse). a fully traited medi build severely out powers strength of the fallen. and the rest of the skills are all “on block” abilities. unlike many other classes, there is absolutely no theme or direction to the traits. ive made some progress with my rebuild, but it will take some time.

please keep suggestions flowing so i can include them in the revision.

Yeah i think the same way. Other classes have straight themes for their elite spec traitlines, while DH’s seem kinda thrown together :/

Also i have a new Idea for Dragonhunter, what about a trap which immobilizes targets on every puls or even better, changing the trait which dazes enemies when stepping in a trep, that it immobilizes targets instead. That actually would make me use one trap

its kinda funny, there are 6 traits involving aegis, and 8 involving blocking. 6 involving retaliation. if you AVOID all of these traits, you end up with most meta builds. rebuilding the guardian traits is like playing sudoku with book pages instead of numbers but not knowing what the story is about.

for my “sacred ground” idea, that triggers a condition (stun) when you leave a symbol early, i was thinking about switching the stun to a 2 second taunt, to give the guardian more control. this could be used quite creatively on a staff guardian to prevent someone from ganking an downed ally, or keeping them close with hammer and mace.

also was thinking of some condition-boon counterplay:

trait 1: when a boon you applied is stripped, has a 50% to reapply the same boon

trait 2: when a boon you applied is ripped, send the converted contition to the stripper.

i also want to find a good way to have more reliable stability, add in resistance, and possibly a way to apply slow that isn’t in the dragonhunter line.

I’ve been going over forum threads, build websites, and trying to give guardians a reason to pick traits that they wouldn’t normally do, with some build concepts that are guardian flavor, but wasn’t really feasible before, like a good signet or spirit weapon build.

i hope to post the information soon

Delgotta.3817:

its kinda funny, there are 6 traits involving aegis, and 8 involving blocking. 6 involving retaliation. if you AVOID all of these traits, you end up with most meta builds. rebuilding the guardian traits is like playing sudoku with book pages instead of numbers but not knowing what the story is about.

That’s because Anet is too afraid of some sort of power creep to actually make any of these traits work at an effective level. If you look at some update history, you’ll notice that many of those traits were much stronger when they were originally proposed, but were then nerfed hard before even getting much of a chance to be tested. It’s quite sad, really, because if most of them weren’t so useless you could actually make a pretty effective, unique build that would make players have to pay attention or else risk getting punished.

so, this is what i have so far, and is by far NOT a final edit, just needs some tempering, scrutinizing and flaming from veterans, guardian lovers and forum trolls. What i have done is moved some traits around for better synergy, combined some that worked well together but were lackluster on their own and came up with a few more. also, at the bottom is the new shield concept.

Zeal
dps line single target and aoe via symbols,

Minor Adept
Zealot’s Speed Create a Symbol of Wrath when you are struck while below the health threshold.

Major Adept
Symbolic Exposure Symbols apply vulnerability to foes. have increased damage and a chance to burn enemies

Major Adept
Shattered Aegis When an aegis you applied blocks an attack, it damages nearby foes.

Major Adept
Zealous Scepter While wielding a scepter, gain might when your justice passive effect triggers.

Minor Master
Fiery Wrath Increases damage against burning foes

Major Master
Binding Jeopardy Immobilizing or blinding a foe also applies vulnerability to them.

Major Master Strenght of Spirit Spirit weapons burn foes they strike. Spirit weapon summon and command skills have reduced recharge and are persistent

Major Master
Zealous Blade Attacks with your greatsword deal extra damage and heal you. Greatsword abilities have reduced recharge.

Minor Grandmaster
Kindled Zeal Gain condition damage based on your power.

Major Grandmaster
King of Kings has a 20% chance on critical OR when you rally a player to spawn a lesser “sword of justice” (max 5) that remains for 20 seconds and does 40% of the swords regular damage. the sword automatically uses command when destroyed.

Major Grandmaster
Focused zeal Gain Zealots speed for 5 seconds, increasing attack speed and skill recharge rate by 10% per stack. max 5 stacks each time you apply burning. all stacks are removed after the 5th stack and cannot be reaplied against the same target.

Major Grandmaster
Symbolic Avenger You deal more damage to enemies standing in your symbols. Symbols last longer, are larger, and heal allies

Radiance condition line focus on virtue of justice combo, burning and retaliation and signet combo

Minor Adept
Justice is Blind When activating Virtue of Justice, nearby foes are blinded.

Major Adept
Retribution 33% chance to gain retaliation upon being hit.

Major Adept
Inner Fire 10icd Gain fury when you strike a foe that has burning stacks over threshold.

Major Adept
Right-Hand Strength Critical hit chance with one-handed weapons is increased. Sword skills recharge faster.

Minor Master
Renewed Justice Virtue of Justice is renewed when you kill a foe.

Major Master
Radiant Fire 10icd Gain zealot’s flame when you critically hit an enemy. Burning duration is increased. Torch abilities recharge faster.

Major Master
Rising Retribution Gain increased damage while under the effects of retaliation.

Major Master
Wrath of Justice Striking an enemy with justice’s active effect triggers signet of wrath.

Minor Grandmaster
Radiant Power Attacks against burning foes have an increased chance to critically hit.Burning damage is increased

Major Grandmaster
Amplified Wrath 1icd being hit while under the effects of retaliation cause burning

Major Grandmaster
Perfect Inscriptions Gain light aura when activating a signet. Signets recharge faster and have improved passive effects.

Major Grandmaster
Watch the world burn applying burning to a new target also applies burnign to up to 5 adjacent targets who also do not have burning

Valor defencive support line. meditation combo

Minor Adept
Valorous Defense 20icd Gain aegis when you are struck while below the health threshold.

Major Adept
Focus Mastery Gain protection when using a focus ability. Focus abilities have reduced recharge.

Major Adept
Smiter’s Boon Smite conditions when you use a healing ability.

Major Adept
Strength of the Fallen 10icd Virtue of Courage is recharged when you revive an ally or when you rally .Lose conditions at a set time interval. Health degenerates more slowly while downed

Minor Master
Communal Defenses 15icd Grant aegis to allies when you block an attack.

Major Master
Glacial Heart Glacial Heart Critical hits with hammers chill enemies. Hammer recharge is reduced

Major Master
Stalwart Defender you and Nearby allies gain Gain additional toughness while wielding a shield. Shield ability recharge is reduced. Immunity to critical hits while using a shield

Major Master
Strength in Numbers 35icd Aegis casts Hollowed ground when it blocks an attack

Minor Grandmaster
Retributive Armor Gain toughness periodically while in combat. 50 toughness per 2 seconds up to a max of 500 toughness.

Major Grandmaster
sacred ground: leaving a symbol before it ends causes 2 second of taunt.

Major Grandmaster
Monk’s Focus Using a meditation skill heals you and grants fury to allies in a radius. Mediation skills have reduced recharge.

Major Grandmaster
Master of Consecrations Consecrations last longer and have reduced recharge. (baseline) concencrations cause slow for 3 seconds per pulse concencrations rally downed allies

Honor healing and support boon line counter play

Minor Adept
Vigorous Precision 10icd Gain vigor when you deliver a critical hit.

Major Adept
Invigorated Bulwark Mace abilities have reduced recharge. Gain increased healing for each foe hit by symbol of faith (10 sec 50 healing 10 stacks) protectors strike triggers signet of Judgments active effect when itdamages a foe

Major Adept
Protector’s Impact 8icd Create a Symbol of Protection when you take falling damage. You take less damage when falling

Major Adept
Sanctified Retribution when a boon is forcibly ripped while under the effects of retaliation, the converted condition is applied to the boon ripper

Minor Master
Selfless Daring The end of your dodge roll heals nearby allies.

Major Master
Empowering Might 1icd You and nearby allies gain might when you land a critical hit.

Major Master
Protective Reviver Activate Santuary when you begin reviving an ally. Health degenerates more slowly while downed

Major Master
Healing staff Boon duration is increased while wielding a staff. Staff recharges are reduced.

Minor Grandmaster
Purity of Body Your Virtue of Resolve passive effect also regenerates endurance.Healing effectiveness to other allies is increased based on a percentage of your vitality.

Major Grandmaster
Pure of Heart When a boon you have applied gets forcibly removed, it has a 50% to reapply the same boon

Major Grandmaster
Pure of Voice Allies affected by shouts have conditions converted to boons. Shout abilities have their recharge reduced

Major Grandmaster
Altruistic Healing: Applying a boon to allies heals you.
.
Virtues

Minor Adept
Inspired Virtue Virtues now also apply the following boons to allies when activated:
Justice: might Resolve: regeneration Courage: protection

Major Adept
Master of Consecrations Consecrations last longer and have reduced recharge. (baseline) concencrations cause slow for 3 seconds per pulse

Major Adept
Retaliatory Subconscious 30icd Gain retaliation and aegis when stunned, dazed, knocked back, pulled, knocked down, sunk, floated, launched, taunted or inflicted with fear.

Major Adept
Unscathed Contender Deal more damage while under the effects of aegis. 15% damage reduction while virtue of courage is on cooldown

Minor Master
Battle Presence Nearby allies gain Virtue of Resolve’s passive effect.

Major Master
Absolute Resolution Activating Virtue of Resolve removes conditions from nearby allies. Virtue of Resolve’s passive effect is stronger.

Major Master
Permeating Wrath Virtue of Justice’s passive effect no longer only burns your target, but also burns the area around your target each time it activates.

Major Master
Supreme Justice Virtue of Justice causes burning more frequently. When activating Virtue of Justice, the burn duration is increased.

Minor Grandmaster
Power of the Virtuous Deal extra damage for each boon you have. Virtues recharge faster. cool downs for resolve and courage are reduced based on current health (above 75%, below 75% and below 50% reduce by 15%, 25% then 40%).

Major Grandmaster
Shared fate when activating a signet or virtue, it will reduce the active cooldown on the corresponding signet or virtue: justice-bane, resolve-mercy, courage-judgment

Major Grandmaster
Indomitable Courage Activating virtue of courage breaks stun and grants stability to nearby allies. Virtue of courage’s passive effect triggers more frequently.

Major Grandmaster
Burning Wrath Light fields are now Fire fields

Shield[edit]
4 Shield of Judgment ½ 12 block for 3 seconds and heal 5% of the damage absorbed to the Guardian and 5 nearby players

5 Shield of Absorption 1½ 24 Create a dome around you that pushes foes back and absorbs projectiles. The dome will INCREASE in size every second doing an additional knockback each time it grows (also increasing the detonation effect based on stage)

5 Shield of Absorption Detonate the dome to heal nearby allies. additional effect based on growth stage
stage 1- heals 1300
stage 2- heals and grants protection to 5 players in the shield
stage 3- also grants aegis
stage 4- also grants might

delgotta, i wish someone in ranger forum would be like you, who sits behind his class and think about traits and changes, that are straight up and not OP af

here are my opinions on the design itself, not on balancing or if its that what the guard needs, etc

Major Grandmaster
King of Kings has a 20% chance on critical OR when you rally a player to spawn a lesser “sword of justice” (max 5) that remains for 20 seconds and does 40% of the swords regular damage. the sword automatically uses command when destroyed.

lets be honest, Anet wont do something like that, i mean “lesser versions” of something. They would need to make a smaller model, new numbers, search for cds and weaknesses and so on.
Suggestion: maybe change it that u summone a weapon that instantly casts command, so u have no pokemon zoo of aegislash behind you. (http://www.pokewiki.de/images/7/70/Sugimori_681.png)

Major Adept
Inner Fire 10icd Gain fury when you strike a foe that has burning stacks over threshold.
I know traits about HP threshold against foes, but idk if anet likes to programm such traits about stack thresholds, u know? I just imagine it a bit difficult to make for them

Major Grandmaster
Watch the world burn applying burning to a new target also applies burnign to up to 5 adjacent targets who also do not have burning
Falls almost under the same reasons like above, maybe change it to a fire nova or like the 6th effect of balthazar runes, u know. i just think of, that it is easier and faster to let anet make things, they already programmed, instead of a bit new technologies

Major Adept
Focus Mastery Gain protection when using a focus ability. Focus abilities have reduced recharge.
it remembers me how a minor worked on ranger, u somehow waste protection on ur focus blocks, while the blocks are up, the prot ticks and remain unused.

Minor Grandmaster
Retributive Armor Gain toughness periodically while in combat. 50 toughness per 2 seconds up to a max of 500 toughness.
sounds incredibly strong, like the Scrapper GM, personally too strong

i think i read two times the consecration trait at different places

Major Grandmaster
Burning Wrath Light fields are now Fire fields
uhhh idk if thats even possible, maybe change it in style like the ele trait which gives fury to explo combos or something like that

maybe i did not see it or something, but what bothers me is, that guard is boon heavy class and after the spec update u got no boon duration trait, that is not linked to a weapon
maybe u can change that

ur ideas definetly deserve its own thread

All you guys need is pets.

for king of kings, I was thinking of having it so the lesser swords cast command, then disappear instead of lingering and being a temporary pet. but i do like the idea of gathering a few up and giving opponents a good visual that the first second of engagement might hurt a bit. also adds extra firepower to scepter and staff guardians too.

retributive armor is meant for long drawn out battles. loosing the stacks on disengage does not benefit short fights at all. lowering the total to 250 and making it each 3 seconds may give it a better feel.

boon duration can be put somewhere in honor. it fits the line. but your right, it needs it there. i still want to find a way to put in better access to stability and resistance. right now there are several classes that have perma stability and i think we should get some love.

as far as inner fire and watch the world burn, several other classes have complex mechanics and special coding, guardians dont. our virtues are little more than fancy sigils. yay. watch the world burn is similar to revinant mace #2 under the hood, but with an added flag check to see if burning has been applied already. i say we NEED something complex, instead of dressed up shouts and sigils.

i know some of these ideas will require a little extra coding, but lets face it, Guardians need it. i feel like we got left behind in all this new tech they developed.

I have mained as a bunker guardian since release, after playing the necro-reaper and revinant and now the details on the scrapper, i am sad to say ill be transferring my ascended to my revinant and running a bunker-support with my guild on him instead. things need to change with guardian desperately.

i understand ur argument about complexity, but i personally think it would be more useful when u do not check how many stacks the other one has and just give them burn

but in the end, its just what the devs think about ur ideas, it would be nice if they really consider them for guardian

Well the Dragonhunter till now isnt quite perfect, but it gotten better, I highly recommend for Anet inplementing a the Trait Idea “Dragons Stomp” which knock downs enemies when removing a condition with “Smite Condition”, it would reall give the Dragonhunter the tiny bit of control it needs and BAM we have a pretty nice class for the release.

P.S. like the changes, just some little more changes and it would get from a not-wanted elite spec to a awesome crowdpleaser

Azure.8670:

traps should be symbols. that is all.

traps should be marks*