Guild Wars 2

I was quite disappointed to see that Guards weren’t getting any love this patch or even mentioned as needed fixing. I love the class, but there are some things that need to be addressed.

1) Scepter 1
2) Sword 3
3) Shield CD compared to other shield classes.
4) Zeal/Radiance tree traits/stat allocations (especially the GM traits)
5) 4 second daze that thieves can steal from us
6) Hammer 2 needs to be adjusted just like Greatsword 3.

(EDIT: Removed the GS5 bug, added #6)

Dynnen.6405:

3) GS 5 not affecting players in stealth anymore

What?

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Dynnen.6405:

3) GS 5 not affecting players in stealth anymore

What?

It will do damage to the target, but not apply the dot that does damage and allows you to pull them back to you.

I just played before going to work and pulled a thief out of refuge with Binding Blade.

Are you sure that you just didnt miss with the skill?

Comparing to the other classes, guards are the most balanced in all aspects of pve, pvp, and wvw. They are more then likely to focus on other classes and do minual changes with the guardian patch per patch.

Dynnen.6405:

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Dynnen.6405:

3) GS 5 not affecting players in stealth anymore

What?

It will do damage to the target, but not apply the dot that does damage and allows you to pull them back to you.

In some cases, couldn’t they still be in stealth if you did pull them? If so, how could you see if the pull worked or not?

Overall, I think the state of Guardians is quite good. We have various good builds for any content and there is a consistent desirability for one or more Guardians in a team. Picking particular issues with weapon skills is a narrow assessment for the overall state. I would think that’s probably why we aren’t the focus of many changes for each patch. .

Obtena.7952:

Dynnen.6405:

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Dynnen.6405:

3) GS 5 not affecting players in stealth anymore

What?

It will do damage to the target, but not apply the dot that does damage and allows you to pull them back to you.

In some cases, couldn’t they still be in stealth if you did pull them? If so, how could you see if the pull worked or not?

Overall, I think the state of Guardians is quite good. We have various good builds for any content and there is a consistent desirability for one or more Guardians in a team. Picking particular issues with weapon skills is a narrow assessment for the overall state. I would think that’s probably why we aren’t the focus of many changes for each patch. .

Partied with a thief from another server. Ill try it again with another thief and a mesmer if I can find one.

Definately agree with 2 and 4… Really with shield and sword was as viable as hammer. So much damage potential in sword if #3 actually hit stuff!

What is wrong with scepter 1?

Apart from these couple of issues I feel like guardian is pretty good at the moment.
Although – and this is going to sound wierd – After playing around with 1hs and hammer, GS feels really underpowered.

I think Guardians need some certainty.

We’re given contradictory messages, “Guardians are supposed to feel the pressure when boons run out” and “Guardians are supposed to get into a fight and keep going”. Which one is it?

1. “Keep going” or
2. Not keep going (i.e. “feel the pressure”)?

We have one condition and yet we are told that it can dish out some heavy damage (see video at 42:40). We are told that we have options (see same video) but we have to wear Vitality gear to even have a reasonable health pool (reducing our options by 33%).

I think we need some clarification.

Forgot one thing, Hammer 2. If I have quickness (from Mesmer or from sigil of rage proc) and I try to hit anything other than a char or norn, the explosion happens over their head. Also if I am on a small incline they have to be a tall norn for it to land. Needs the same love they gave Greatsword 3.

this might be a little picky but it would be awesome if ANet would make up their kitten minds and put every gap closer for all weapons on the same frikkin button or let me rearrange skills myself!

Pulling stealthed players still works just fine.

If you’re separated more than 600 meters before you make the pull, it will fall off. That’s the leashing distance for the DoT.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Pulling stealthed players still works just fine.

If you’re separated more than 600 meters before you make the pull, it will fall off. That’s the leashing distance for the DoT.

Yea, it worked fine for me after another test. The thief that I tested it with probably backed away too far or something. And people are dodging a lot more as well =P

Dynnen.6405:

I was quite disappointed to see that Guards weren’t getting any love this patch or even mentioned as needed fixing. I love the class, but there are some things that need to be addressed.

1) Scepter 1
2) Sword 3
3) Shield CD compared to other shield classes.
4) Zeal/Radiance tree traits/stat allocations (especially the GM traits)
5) 4 second daze that thieves can steal from us
6) Hammer 2 needs to be adjusted just like Greatsword 3.

(EDIT: Removed the GS5 bug, added #6)

wow all of these abilities have amazing uses and by far hammer 2 is amazing and iif u are complaining about it u are obviously doing something wrong or move to another class becasue guard is not for u

I think 1 and 2 could use some attention but overall, I think we are in a good place.

1) would be nice if it was a bit faster, the damage is fine.
2) I would like to be looked at because it does only a little more damage than auto attack and is much hard to hit a moving target with. Would be nice if it blocked projectiles, rather than absorbed them or something so you could use it with on block traits.

Problem is, there is no “pressure” in PvE. Either you keep going or you run out of endurance and die.

All I want is CD reductions from Mace/Sword traits.

I wish the scepter 1 was akin to the downed 1 ability. All other scepter using professions get a channeled ability, why can’t we?

From an spvp perspective, the Guardian’s skills are too focused on point control. What do you guys think will happen once they introduce more types of pvp? As of right now for the conquest setting, the guardian does well. I just think if they tied some of the skills to have more use in mobility, the class would do well in other areas instead of just sitting on a point.

I just wish for 4 things

1) Upgrade us to T2 Health pool because we lose options from awesome and cool specs (as we need to invest @ Vit armor)
2) They should make scepter 1 faster because it’s kind of fail when you defend in a castle in WvWvW and you cant do anything good from up there (I know that we supposed to be in front line and i respect that, but we cant do that either because its kind of pointless 2-3 guardians againt 10-20 enemies and i also know that scepter 3—→2 are very strong but…)
3) Better skills with the shield.
4) Maybe reduce the cooldowns a bit from Virtues and especially lower the seconds of the passive trigger of VoC.

Overall form my experience in PvE, Dungeons , SPvP , WvWvW I am very glad that I picked guardian

I’m not saying that guardians Dont have anything wrong with them because let’s be real, every class has their problems. I do think that guardian is low on the list of problems however. Guardian is my favorite character out of my 5 80’s and I feel like it needs the least amount of work.

the tin foil armor should hold a litle more due small health pool(dont talk about boons becouse easilly removed and health regen is useless)

The damage reduction between a light and heavy armored class is about 5%. The difference here is almost unnoticeable. So when light armored classes talk about the advantages of having the “extra” armor, it’s really just bull crap.

Aeolus.3615:

the tin foil armor should hold a litle more due small health pool(dont talk about boons becouse easilly removed and health regen is useless)

Also, the boon duration and upkeep of a guardian is relatively small when compared to an elementalist or condition engineer.

Dynnen.6405:

1) Scepter 1

Guardian doesn’t really need a ranged weapon specifically for DPS. We’re already nigh invincibile. That’s not to say it doesn’t need a buff in the department of hitting moving targets, but it should get a penalty as well. Give it some slight homing capabilities or a faster movement speed, but add a damage fall-off (deals less damage over distance).

2) Sword 3

I haven’t played around with Zealot’s Defense much. I’m assuming some sort of collision bug where the projectiles will hit the terrain. In all honestly, the skill sounds more like it should be called “Zealot’s Irony” as it destroys projectiles by casting projectiles that can be destroyed or reflected as well. Other than that, I’m not sure what’s wrong with a well timed projectile counter.

3) Shield CD compared to other shield classes.

The Guardian’s shield also affects allies. The Guardian’s shield has the same cooldowns as the Engineer’s shield. There’s nothing wrong with the shield’s cooldowns. The only issue I have with the shield is the healing sub-ability on Shield of Absorption. You have 1.5 seconds to detonate a shield that lasts 4 seconds. I feel that should be adjusted, but that’s all.

4) Zeal/Radiance tree traits/stat allocations (especially the GM traits)

Zeal is lackluster, but Radiance is decent. I find it odd that Zeal focuses heavily on both Spirit Weapons and Symbols. Some kind of change to traits should happen (especially to remove the mediocre traits), but it’s primarily Zeal.

5) 4 second daze that thieves can steal from us

I have to agree with this one. We don’t even have access to a daze let alone 4 seconds. This is more like a method to counter a Guardian instead. Thieves can steal an axe from a warrior for a whirlwind attack. Why do we get the short end?

6) Hammer 2 needs to be adjusted just like Greatsword 3.

Adjusted? You mean the range of Leap of Faith? If so, it doesn’t. Mighty Blow is a blast finisher. It doesn’t need range. It already applies some of the most powerful effects to you and your allies with the right combo fields, and it does it every 5 seconds (4 seconds with traits). It also causes significantly more damage than Leap of Faith. It doesn’t need a change. Hell, I will go as far as to say that the three two-handed weapons the Guardian has are balanced. I find myself using each on different occasions by tweaking my major traits slightly.

Nigh invincible? I’ve seen Bunker engineers, Rangers and Elementalists last longer without sacrificing mobility and still put pressure on their attackers. A bunker guardian is absolutely no threat to the opposing team in terms of pressure.

Arken.3725:

Nigh invincible? I’ve seen Bunker engineers, Rangers and Elementalists last longer without sacrificing mobility and still put pressure on their attackers. A bunker guardian is absolutely no threat to the opposing team in terms of pressure.

And how many of those are using a melee weapon? My point is not how defensive a Guardian can be, but how well a Guardian can survive in melee. Bunker is defined as absorbing or avoiding as much damage as possible (recently stated by the developers as well). The Guardian can be a viable melee bunker if the player is skilled enough to use it. If you give a bunker Guardian a ranged weapon, especially one that can immobilize, what kind of results would you expect? I’d expect it too would be harder to kill as the Guardian will be able to avoid combat just as easily as any profession using a rifle, bow, or staff. Scepter doesn’t need a speed or homing buff without a nerf. The Guardian feels much better suited to a melee role, but it should still have a ranged weapon for bosses and enemies that are far too difficult to encounter in melee.

I agree the Guardian is more suited for melee but that doesn’t take away from the fact that if another class can bunker just as well(if not more) when utilizing a ranged weapon, we have a problem.

We only need two things imo. A projectile finisher, and for our staff #3 to be fixed.

Arken.3725:

The damage reduction between a light and heavy armored class is about 5%. The difference here is almost unnoticeable. So when light armored classes talk about the advantages of having the “extra” armor, it’s really just bull crap.

Right here. Nail on Head.

This is my BIGGEST freaking complaint….

Heavy ARmor……

HEAVY ARMOR…

Wait, Dev’s, let me just spell it out…

~H~E~A~V~Y ~A~R~M~O~R

Spread between medium and heavy is what, 140 toughness? 140 Toughness at 3k+ armor (which rangers easily run with), is a whooping 3-4% dmg rreducton?

Really? 3-4% damage reduction from wearing Heavy Armor?

Please correct me if I’m wrong… but this is just BAFFLING.

Kryptonite.7580:

Dynnen.6405:

I was quite disappointed to see that Guards weren’t getting any love this patch or even mentioned as needed fixing. I love the class, but there are some things that need to be addressed.

1) Scepter 1
2) Sword 3
3) Shield CD compared to other shield classes.
4) Zeal/Radiance tree traits/stat allocations (especially the GM traits)
5) 4 second daze that thieves can steal from us
6) Hammer 2 needs to be adjusted just like Greatsword 3.

(EDIT: Removed the GS5 bug, added #6)

wow all of these abilities have amazing uses and by far hammer 2 is amazing and iif u are complaining about it u are obviously doing something wrong or move to another class becasue guard is not for u

Scepter 1: You can avoid it by strafeing from 300-400 range very easily.
Sword 3: 600 range attack that has the same issue as Scepter 1. Its only really effective if you are in someones face.
Shield CDs: Look at everyone elses shield CD and how effective they are.
Zeal/Radiance trees: definitely need some work, I don’t think I’m alone on this one.
4 second daze: A joke, but would like a 4 second daze
Hammer 2: If I have quickness from Mesmer the damage will actually hit in the air above the target, missing asura and some humans/sylvari. Then if you are on an incline it will miss all but Norns. Not talking about the damage, just talking about the leap needs the same adjustment they gave to Greatsword 3.

Viralseed.9362:

Adjusted? You mean the range of Leap of Faith? If so, it doesn’t. Mighty Blow is a blast finisher. It doesn’t need range. It already applies some of the most powerful effects to you and your allies with the right combo fields, and it does it every 5 seconds (4 seconds with traits). It also causes significantly more damage than Leap of Faith. It doesn’t need a change. Hell, I will go as far as to say that the three two-handed weapons the Guardian has are balanced. I find myself using each on different occasions by tweaking my major traits slightly.

Adjusted in the sense that quickness screws with it. Kind of like how Heartseeker range is only 50% when you have quickness, rather than moving the same distance but twice as fast.

Even with full buf over 3k+ armor and much hp, anybody can hit me like 8k damage or more, and i get lol.

Because i play mostly wvw and the zerg is extrmely higth i just go to boomer build and semi support , but as a veteran guardian from first beta and over now i see tomany ex guardian moving to other classes , always i see tons of others classes but not guardian, and i fell so sad about it. Anyway i love my guardian at all but sometime i fell something is going wrong with my class, compared to the others tclkitten are always geting buff. I think i have the old list how many nerf i have on all my build lol.

Viralseed.9362:

Adjusted? You mean the range of Leap of Faith? If so, it doesn’t. Mighty Blow is a blast finisher. It doesn’t need range. It already applies some of the most powerful effects to you and your allies with the right combo fields, and it does it every 5 seconds (4 seconds with traits). It also causes significantly more damage than Leap of Faith. It doesn’t need a change. Hell, I will go as far as to say that the three two-handed weapons the Guardian has are balanced. I find myself using each on different occasions by tweaking my major traits slightly.[/quote]

Two or three patches ago they improved the leap on GS 3. In the last portion of the leap they made it lock onto the target better and nearly completely fixed it. It still misses on occasion, but it hits about 90% of the time. They need to do the same thing to Hammer 2. Making it lock onto the target better in the last portion to improve the chance to hit. With haste its a small problem, trying to Mighty Blow down an incline will get you no damage at all.

[quote=1667848;Viralseed.9362:]

Dynnen.6405:

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Pulling stealthed players still works just fine.

If you’re separated more than 600 meters before you make the pull, it will fall off. That’s the leashing distance for the DoT.

Yea, it worked fine for me after another test. The thief that I tested it with probably backed away too far or something. And people are dodging a lot more as well =P

More thieves are dodging in the stealth house to avoid being pulled or knocked out, yup.

My main complaint about Mighty Blow is that it doesn’t work well when the fighting is on any kind of slope since it will miss due to the z-axis nature of the ability. It needs to be fixed to work more reliably with z-axis differences. I’m getting tired of seeing multiple red misses just because my target is slightly below me.

Other than that it is one of the best weapon abilities in the game.

Tumbero.3945:

Even with full buf over 3k+ armor and much hp, anybody can hit me like 8k damage or more, and i get lol.

Because i play mostly wvw and the zerg is extrmely higth i just go to boomer build and semi support , but as a veteran guardian from first beta and over now i see tomany ex guardian moving to other classes , always i see tons of others classes but not guardian, and i fell so sad about it. Anyway i love my guardian at all but sometime i fell something is going wrong with my class, compared to the others tclkitten are always geting buff. I think i have the old list how many nerf i have on all my build lol.

agree with your sentiment. I feel guardian class needs a slight bump in health pool or some extra % for dmg reduction, if the role is truly front line dps/ support instead of healer.

rchu.8945:

agree with your sentiment. I feel guardian class needs a slight bump in health pool or some extra % for dmg reduction, if the role is truly front line dps/ support instead of healer.

I imagine that’s pretty tricky to balance. Say we get our base health bumped to 15/16k – that would make a full zerker with 8.5-9k effective power build an absolute monster.

rchu.8945:

agree with your sentiment. I feel guardian class needs a slight bump in health pool or some extra % for dmg reduction, if the role is truly front line dps/ support instead of healer.

Nah Guardian has enough defense in both PvE and PvP to hold the ground for long.
It’s just one specific class that can burst a full defense Guardian to the ground in 3-4 hits, and it’s that class that needs changes not us.
And hearing the last Anet video they want to change that next patch so maybe things will be a bit more balanced.

Red Falcon.8257:

rchu.8945:

agree with your sentiment. I feel guardian class needs a slight bump in health pool or some extra % for dmg reduction, if the role is truly front line dps/ support instead of healer.

Nah Guardian has enough defense in both PvE and PvP to hold the ground for long.
It’s just one specific class that can burst a full defense Guardian to the ground in 3-4 hits, and it’s that class that needs changes not us.
And hearing the last Anet video they want to change that next patch so maybe things will be a bit more balanced.

They’ll be changing that some? Sort of like how you squeeze one side of a long balloon, one side is reduced but the other is inflated. However, its still the same sized balloon. They’ll still be able to 2-4 shot Guardians with the proposed ideas.

Aren’t we supposed to get a 10% damage reduction in the next path? And which class is this that can burst a Guardian in 3-4 hits? I haven’t come across anything like this in WvW… well there was this one guy that hit like a truck.. Thief then I take it. But they are super glassy if they spec that way.

I don’t see much wrong with being hit for alot by a glass cannon. Isn’t that the point? There would be something seriously wrong with balance if a glass cannon build would glance off our defenses. Where would that leave anyone NOT glass cannon hitting us?

Obtena.7952:

I don’t see much wrong with being hit for alot by a glass cannon. Isn’t that the point? There would be something seriously wrong with balance if a glass cannon build would glance off our defenses. Where would that leave anyone NOT glass cannon hitting us?

Very good point. Kinda like reading in the warrior forum where a bunch of warriors where kittening about Healing Sigent being too weak and need a buff. Reason being because it could not passively heal against Ranger or Necro conditions. Yup something is weak because it can not negate total another persons dmg passively.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t see much wrong with being hit for alot by a glass cannon. Isn’t that the point? There would be something seriously wrong with balance if a glass cannon build would glance off our defenses. Where would that leave anyone NOT glass cannon hitting us?

Nope.
A glass cannon Warrior hits a defensive Guardian for lulz dmg, you can tank him down to him autoattacking due to all on CD.
Thief still hits bazillions and has more chances of escaping you than a Warrior.

The reason I stopped playing my Thief (even though I spent a ton of money on him) is that everything really feels too easy.
Killing people is unsatisfying because it requires zero skill.
You 3-shot a tanky Guardian inside a zerg of 20 people and port far away as if nothing happened.
Come on.

There is a reason everyone and their mothers are running Thieves in WvW and sPvP.
If not even Guardians can take their burst then who should?

Of course tank builds should beat glass cannons.
They already do, and there is only one exception to that.

Well, then what is everyone talking about? You’re telling me glass cannons hit tank Guardians for LAWL damage, there is another guy telling us he’s going down in 3-4 hits … it’s not both. Someone is exaggerating (or everyone is). Usually when I see two extreme positions on the same topic, the reality is something in the middle of those two.

Obtena.7952:

Well, then what is everyone talking about? You’re telling me glass cannons hit tank Guardians for LAWL damage, there is another guy telling us he’s going down in 3-4 hits … it’s not both. Someone is exaggerating (or everyone is). Usually when I see two extreme positions on the same topic, the reality is something in the middle of those two.

His and others’ point is that as a Bunker/Defense Guardian, you should be the counter to a Glass Cannon. Period. That isn’t so with a Thief, who is about to get something called Boon Hate and boons are what a lot of Bunkers rely on as part of their defenses. And what’s even worse is that it doesn’t take a lot of player skill for a Thief to be good.

And yes, there probably is some exaggeration going on with both sides. But I can tell you one thing, I’ve seen plenty of Thieves 3-4 shot Guardians within a couple seconds. In fact, there was someone in /map the other day that said they had received 20k damage by a single thief in less than 5 seconds and he was a bunker build.

I’d just like them to fix our shouts so they all have sound and other players here them.

Mainly for the awesome factor, but also because if your with another guardian you can stagger abilities better without having to watch little icons so much.

Be nice if Anet stopped pretending we had loads of viable builds to. But mainly just the shouts thing.

It’s clear my point isn’t understood:

If glass cannons are destroying Bunker Guardians, then there is no way their damage is LAWL on a Guardian. If glass cannons are doing LAWL damage on a Guardian, they aren’t destroying Guardians. I’m not disputing either is right or wrong but it can’t be both. Someone is just not representing Guardians properly with their claims.

The intent of the thread is to get a feeling for the overall performance of Guardians for game content. If there are two extreme and contradicting positions, seems to me that an objective reader would have to dismiss both, resulting in the conclusion that Guardians are in a nice, average position.

I’d like to see Smite (scepter 2) be made into a symbol, would make it more viable running with it for certain trait builds.