Guild Wars 2

I’m actually looking forward to the vigor nerf. It’ll open up some interesting options for that last 5 points. 10/30/0/0/30 or 20/25/0/0/25 are niice.

I didn’t even know vigor was being nerfed. When is this happening?

laharl.8435:

I didn’t even know vigor was being nerfed. When is this happening?

The devs mentioned they were looking into how easy some classes have it. I don’t think they outlined any time table or exact plan to nerf it. But expect something…

Aza.2105:

foofad.5162:

Aza.2105:

Painbow.6059:

You could probably conjure up some kind of viable healing build but it’s the fact that people use AH and ignore damage multipliers as well. In good parties anything but zerker is not needed. But in pugs you could probably mix some zerker with some healing with battle presence ect and be useful (picking up damage multipliers aka 10% while endurance not full). But some guards just stick to GS with cleric gear and think they are useful using AH

What skills/traits are most players using primarily for healing?

I don’t know about most people but I run 10/0/0/30/30 Hammer/Mace+x. SYG, PF, and third utility is a wildcard for whatever situation.

I was curious because when examples of cleric guardians are used they seem to be very polarized. Honor maxed out, staff, signet of mercy, writ of the merciful, basically taking every last healing skill/trait and nothing else.

But when you look at zerker users, they don’t run 30/30/0/x/x. I’m saying the zerker builds that others advocate aren’t taking every last trait that has to do with damage. Its a mix of offense and defense. So why are cleric build so polarized? Could a cleric build be designed similar to its zerker counter part? Were as there is a intelligent picking of traits and skills while allowing the user to take advantage of healing power.

I think it’s polarized because of the all-or-nothing attitude that most of the vocal elements on the forums have about the game. If you aren’t full berserker, you’re wearing training wheels. The logical flipside of that is that if you aren’t full cleric, maximum healing power then you’re doing it wrong.

The reality though is that full, 100% maximum healing power necessitates completely negating your damage. It’s kind of like saying, “Well, I have this umbrella, so I’m just going to stand in the storm indefinitely instead of walking to the front door.” Sure, you don’t die. But you also don’t get anywhere fast. Since the objective of the game remains the same – complete the dungeon, or beat the other team, or whatever – you have to allow yourself room to actually accomplish the overarching objective. So while it’s logical to maximize healing power given that that tactic works for DPS builds, it’s ultimately unhelpful.

It’s a lot of work minmaxing a damage build that can heal, or a healing build that can do acceptable damage. Not everyone wants to do the work. It’s a lot easier to just stack modifiers and berserker gear, or stack healing power.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

My point is zerkers do try to do maximum damage. We only have 5 points that go into defense generally, which is into honor for Perma vigor. Everything else goes into trait lines for DPS. The only non dps trait is master of consecrations generally, but even that adds dps with our wall of reflect….

So, then my point is, why shouldn’t we polarize Cleric guards to being the max healer they can be. (Since healing is useless in general, might as well go full retar….)

Alright, I see what you are saying. And I can’t necessarily disagree with it. However, I do feel its not such a black and white comparison. There are no healing modifiers, there is only healing power and a variety of different skills/traits that apply healing in different ways.

So wouldn’t it be better to avoid having a overabundance of healing? Many of the healing traits can be substituted with weapon skills and healing skills. Faithful strike can replace wit of persistence and healing breeze could be used if you really want to heal allies. The mace trait can be picked up to avoid having to put so many points into honor, leaving points to be placed else where. This is just my perspective on the matter.

Also, I think its better to say that healing power is far behind in pve. But in spvp its very good.

Vigor nerfs have already hit for medium classes – see changes to invigorating speed for engineer, natural vigor for rangers and Acrobatics III for thieves.

From dev comments they’ll be applying similar changes to the other weight classes later.

Aza.2105:

Alright, I see what you are saying. And I can’t necessarily disagree with it. However, I do feel its not such a black and white comparison. There are no healing modifiers, there is only healing power and a variety of different skills/traits that apply healing in different ways.

So wouldn’t it be better to avoid having a overabundance of healing? Many of the healing traits can be substituted with weapon skills and healing skills. Faithful strike can replace wit of persistence and healing breeze could be used if you really want to heal allies. The mace trait can be picked up to avoid having to put so many points into honor, leaving points to be placed else where. This is just my perspective on the matter.

Also, I think its better to say that healing power is far behind in pve. But in spvp its very good.

Well I am as against healing power in PVE as it gets lol. Fighting the Hammer/Bow guy in arah P3 is a very easy fight, when the hammer dude melts from team DPS. But you can definitely tell a difference when someone isn’t pulling their weight in that fight. So the thought of a “healer guardian” makes me cringe. Luckily I run 90% of the time in a full premade so this isn’t a problem as I am the guardian of the group. I just feel bad for pugs…

As far as PVP, yeah I run a Bunker Guardian with cleric amulet, so I am not against it everywhere. Just dungeons and fractals.

Maladon.5760:

I didn’t mean to hurt anyone’s ego, I’m just reading the thread like everyone else. If there’s no consideration that needs to be taken defensively for pve then you simply can’t claim it takes very much skill to participate. This thread is actual proof of that concept.

There is consideration for this however, it’s not where you think it is. Dungeons are different to pvp/wvw because relying on tanky gear will drag things out and likely get you killed. You need to rely on something else now. Knowledge of boss mechanics, dodging and utility/weapon usage.

This thread involves people who think that tanky or healing gear, eg. Cleric’s is a good idea in this situation. They may want to outheal damage instead of relying upon their and their team mate’s skill to mitigate damage all together through situational awareness.

The whole argument here is that you you are better off canning this notion, going full glass and becoming a better player. If you believe that ‘speccing for max damage and blowing kitten up’ is all that is involved, then I invite you to try that on Giganticus Lupicus or high level fractal Dredge power suit/ice ele.

swiftpaw.6397:

Knowledge of boss mechanics, dodging and utility/weapon usage.

healing gear, eg. Cleric’s

You are implying these two things are mutually exclusive. This is not the case.

icewyrm.5038:

swiftpaw.6397:

Knowledge of boss mechanics, dodging and utility/weapon usage.

healing gear, eg. Cleric’s

You are implying these two things are mutually exclusive. This is not the case.

Nope. But you don’t need one if you have the other. I’m sure there are people who are aware of mechanics and what skills to use and yet completely ignorant of the time they waste running a cleric’s set.

fadeaway.2807:

Yaki, a cleric with a spec like 20.0.0.30.20 won’t even hit half the damage a zerker 10.30.0.5.25 will bring. The zerker will bring a lot more than half of the survivability the cleric brings though, simply through reflects, aegis, virtues, conditions removal and blinds. The healing really is the smallest part of our group support.

But damage rarely determines success of failure of an encounter, only the speed of the run. Going cleric’s means your run is going to be slightly slower but you will tend to be more successful. This really only applies to PUGs since everyone else is so pro that they never make mistakes, exploit every advantage, and optimize their group and it’s all about getting the job done quickly.

foofad.5162:

Aza.2105:

Painbow.6059:

You could probably conjure up some kind of viable healing build but it’s the fact that people use AH and ignore damage multipliers as well. In good parties anything but zerker is not needed. But in pugs you could probably mix some zerker with some healing with battle presence ect and be useful (picking up damage multipliers aka 10% while endurance not full). But some guards just stick to GS with cleric gear and think they are useful using AH

What skills/traits are most players using primarily for healing?

I don’t know about most people but I run 10/0/0/30/30 Hammer/Mace+x. SYG, PF, and third utility is a wildcard for whatever situation.

Then you don’t have 70% of the dps of a zerker build and you also don’t have the healing of a heal build. Worst of both worlds.

If they are nerfing perma vigor everyone is just gonna go 10,30,0,0,30 its not exactly gonna open up a ton more builds. I for one am certainly not looking forward to this happening because I pug all the time and slow teams doing stuff like hotw with the troll boss which you need vigor to keep up with dodging it, or soloing alpha in coe before he ices you because the rest of your team can’t dodge, ah how i will miss my dodges

laharl.8435:

vlad.3467:

so i can tell only one thing. The other day I was playing with some random ppl lvl 26 or 29 fractal I dont remember exactly now. We were doing that lava fractal with grawls. We couldnt kill the boss at the end, so i swithed to Soldier/Cleric guardian I have. We made it on the first try, it took like 5-10 mins. Nobody was complaining about my cleric gear.

Guardian is op on the Legendary Grawl because of projectile reflects/blocks. It’s probably the fact that you brought in a guardian that helped, any guard build has reflects.

Or maybe also that heals are great in that fight since your group takes lots of damage from the adds but no big 1-shot hits.

Nick.6972:

Yes, my mistake, the spin attack.
And that’s Arah. My warrior 100b is still more effective in nearly all places.

its more effective for you because you dont understand its a chain over 3,5 seconds.
and people already played full berserker guardians in lvl79/80 fractals. it just comes down to how you PLAY and how you CONTROL your guardian.

Yaki.9563:

foofad.5162:

Aza.2105:

Painbow.6059:

You could probably conjure up some kind of viable healing build but it’s the fact that people use AH and ignore damage multipliers as well. In good parties anything but zerker is not needed. But in pugs you could probably mix some zerker with some healing with battle presence ect and be useful (picking up damage multipliers aka 10% while endurance not full). But some guards just stick to GS with cleric gear and think they are useful using AH

What skills/traits are most players using primarily for healing?

I don’t know about most people but I run 10/0/0/30/30 Hammer/Mace+x. SYG, PF, and third utility is a wildcard for whatever situation.

Then you don’t have 70% of the dps of a zerker build and you also don’t have the healing of a heal build. Worst of both worlds.

Except that, for reasons I’ve outlined in a subsequent post, straight healing builds aren’t good for anyone because they don’t facilitate progress.

Not to mention, there is no case where having 800 healing power instead of 1200 isn’t good enough. 800 is plenty. And I’d hardly consider 70% “the worst”; most people that don’t spec for damage get barely 30 or 40% of a full Zerker, and straight healing builds get 20% or less. It’s awful.

foofad.5162:

Aza.2105:

foofad.5162:

Aza.2105:

Painbow.6059:

You could probably conjure up some kind of viable healing build but it’s the fact that people use AH and ignore damage multipliers as well. In good parties anything but zerker is not needed. But in pugs you could probably mix some zerker with some healing with battle presence ect and be useful (picking up damage multipliers aka 10% while endurance not full). But some guards just stick to GS with cleric gear and think they are useful using AH

What skills/traits are most players using primarily for healing?

I don’t know about most people but I run 10/0/0/30/30 Hammer/Mace+x. SYG, PF, and third utility is a wildcard for whatever situation.

I was curious because when examples of cleric guardians are used they seem to be very polarized. Honor maxed out, staff, signet of mercy, writ of the merciful, basically taking every last healing skill/trait and nothing else.

But when you look at zerker users, they don’t run 30/30/0/x/x. I’m saying the zerker builds that others advocate aren’t taking every last trait that has to do with damage. Its a mix of offense and defense. So why are cleric build so polarized? Could a cleric build be designed similar to its zerker counter part? Were as there is a intelligent picking of traits and skills while allowing the user to take advantage of healing power.

I think it’s polarized because of the all-or-nothing attitude that most of the vocal elements on the forums have about the game. If you aren’t full berserker, you’re wearing training wheels. The logical flipside of that is that if you aren’t full cleric, maximum healing power then you’re doing it wrong.

The reality though is that full, 100% maximum healing power necessitates completely negating your damage. It’s kind of like saying, “Well, I have this umbrella, so I’m just going to stand in the storm indefinitely instead of walking to the front door.” Sure, you don’t die. But you also don’t get anywhere fast. Since the objective of the game remains the same – complete the dungeon, or beat the other team, or whatever – you have to allow yourself room to actually accomplish the overarching objective. So while it’s logical to maximize healing power given that that tactic works for DPS builds, it’s ultimately unhelpful.

It’s a lot of work minmaxing a damage build that can heal, or a healing build that can do acceptable damage. Not everyone wants to do the work. It’s a lot easier to just stack modifiers and berserker gear, or stack healing power.

Yep thats what I mean.

Stacking enormous amounts of healing power and having too healing traits/skills doesn’t get you anywhere. This is why I brought up alternatives, such as using healing skills such as faithful strike, healing breeze etc. While trying to focus on maintaining respectable damage.

From what I’ve gathered overall, the culprit to the adversity to cleric gear isn’t with the gear itself. But a combination of cleric and the trait build. If you take mace of justice with a cleric set, that alone puts you at around 1300+ healing power without honor. Leaving points to utilize in a line like radiance to obtain right handed strength. The 30% crit damage should come in handy for a cleric user, since they have no critical damage to begin with.

Also despite its clunkiness, healing breeze is one of the strongest ally heals guardian has. With 1300 healing power, it heals allies for around 6300hp.

If they nerf Vigorous Precision again I will be a very sad guardian. =(

edit:

actually i thought about this some the change to Vigorous Precision was probably for the better, back when they changed it the first time around I was using AH setups.

Anyway I like vigor, I like dodging through enemies and swording their backside, oh and survival is good too.

I made a cleric guardian once, i wasn’t happy.

Yaki.9563:

laharl.8435:

vlad.3467:

so i can tell only one thing. The other day I was playing with some random ppl lvl 26 or 29 fractal I dont remember exactly now. We were doing that lava fractal with grawls. We couldnt kill the boss at the end, so i swithed to Soldier/Cleric guardian I have. We made it on the first try, it took like 5-10 mins. Nobody was complaining about my cleric gear.

Guardian is op on the Legendary Grawl because of projectile reflects/blocks. It’s probably the fact that you brought in a guardian that helped, any guard build has reflects.

Or maybe also that heals are great in that fight since your group takes lots of damage from the adds but no big 1-shot hits.

If you don’t understand the strength of projectile defense in this encounter, you have a small understanding of the guardian class and the game mechanics in general. My team often runs 2 guardian for high level fractals and used to routinely melee the shaman at 48 (I’m not back that high yet due to time constraints). That fractal is a joke with guardians. Considering my entire guild runs full zerker builds, heals have nothing to do with it.

icewyrm.5038:

Vigor nerfs have already hit for medium classes – see changes to invigorating speed for engineer, natural vigor for rangers and Acrobatics III for thieves.

From dev comments they’ll be applying similar changes to the other weight classes later.

Their endurance gen traits were different though. They didn’t have to do anything to get their endurance gen. With guard endurance gen, you have to be critting to keep it up, so it’s not really permanent. You can’t get your “free vigor” from running (in a pvp setting, which these nerfs were intended for), so the trait is probably safe, since you have to be actively fighting and scoring crits to keep it up.

Maladon.5760:

Who cares? It’s just a dungeon run. You can go naked if you want.

This is how I see it. If you’re wanting a group to blast through dungeons, find people with the armor that suits your speed running needs. Don’t tell me my armor is wrong. I know its not the best but I’m not going to change gear so you can finish a dungeon 2 minutes quicker and then stand in LA for hours.

Most of us care as we don’t want unskillful leechers auto attacking with staff feeling good about themselves

Is it just me or is this “Zerker only or leave” thing only on official forums?
Almost 1000 hour total playtime and no one has ever asked me to ping my gear.
Weird.

Nick.6972:

Is it just me or is this “Zerker only or leave” thing only on official forums?
Almost 1000 hour total playtime and no one has ever asked me to ping my gear.
Weird.

I think most of us that preach it. Play mostly premade now. So I don’t ask pugs to ping much gear anymore. I have added all the good zerkers I have ran into. And now I have a healthy pool of players I enjoy playing with. Puging reduces years on your life span. I prefer to do without the stress.

And I only care about gear in arah and fractals. Everything is so easy, I just accept whatever group I get.

Nick.6972:

Is it just me or is this “Zerker only or leave” thing only on official forums?
Almost 1000 hour total playtime and no one has ever asked me to ping my gear.
Weird.

Pretty much, because it’s the only place that gives competitive PVE players a voice. Gear matters little when it comes to successful PVE encounters. We all know this.

I never kick anyone because of their gear but if there is a full soldiers guardian in my team using AH i will tell them why they suck

Nick.6972:

Is it just me or is this “Zerker only or leave” thing only on official forums?
Almost 1000 hour total playtime and no one has ever asked me to ping my gear.
Weird.

pretty sure it’s a forum thing, people posting on here thinking they are better then everyone else.

BobbyT.7192:

Nick.6972:

Is it just me or is this “Zerker only or leave” thing only on official forums?
Almost 1000 hour total playtime and no one has ever asked me to ping my gear.
Weird.

pretty sure it’s a forum thing, people posting on here thinking they are better then everyone else.

It’s not that that people think they are better than everyone else, it’s that people want others not to suck. If you play full clerics or full tanky I will tell you that you are bad in pve because it is the truth

Nick.6972:

Is it just me or is this “Zerker only or leave” thing only on official forums?
Almost 1000 hour total playtime and no one has ever asked me to ping my gear.
Weird.

So, you want me to kick people based on their gear?

I am convinced clerics and pvt is suboptimal, and if someone wishes to discuss that topic, count me in. But that doesn’t stop me from playing (and having fun) with them.

It’s almost funny. First you don’t want us to flame people based on the gear they use, and then, when we don’t, you wonder why you cannot see that behaviour ingame…

…maybe all the elitist forumscumbags aren’t that mean at all…

Guide to succeeding high level fractals:

Use wall of reflection and shield of the avenger when needed.
Use aegis during hard trash mobs and bosses
Blind spam mobs
Use hammer for perma protection which is so much better than regen and cleric heals
Line of sight and group mobs
Use ring and line of warding as the mobs come to the line of sight spot
Use stability whenneeded
Use scale venom since it’s OP in fractal
Dodge when needed
Rally off of good DPS is always win
Blind, weakness, grouping mobs, projectile reflection/destruction, aegis, CC, stability, prot, good dps…. you can do all these things as a guardian
Other classes can bring additional support of all these things and it will mitigate damage beyond anything a set of clerics, pvt, knights, celestial, sentinel, cavalier, giver, or settlers gear or weak heals could dream of

What not to do:

Facetank
Don’t use the proper utilities
Die slow deaths as your down and your group lacks dps to rally and will die reviving you
Think your heals do much good since your group will still most likely still get 1-2 shotted
Don’t group mobs or LoS
Don’t use blinds or weakness
Ignore good builds and strategies and call people elitists that use and preach them to help others
Take 2-3x as long for being stubborn or ignorant
Take the effort and learn to play and improve instead of asking for advice and ignoring it or claiming it doesn’t work

So basically Clerics gear is detrimental there. The same would apply to dungeons which are easier so there is even less of a need for weak heals.

Whenever I visit the forums and read anything involving armor in PvE it’s always the same thing. It’s zerker or nothing. If you prefer zerker gear over anything else, that’s fine. But I personally prefer knights armor and have always been perfectly fine with the amount of damage I do. I do not buy the “damage saves time” argument. I agree that more damage will make the dungeon/fractal end faster, but me being in knights gear wouldn’t prolong it more than a a couple of minutes. If you’re going to complain over such a trivial amount of time then you obviously don’t have the time or the patience to be playing in the first place. Never have I felt that I was dragging a team down by not using zerker gear. But the forums always manage to give me the feeling that if I’m not wearing zerker gear then I am a bad player, should feel bad, and should stop playing. Is it true? Does not using zerker gear mean I should just kitten off to my own dark corner of the game since I apparently have no place in anyone’s group? Or should I just skip all that and uninstall?

I would also like to remind everyone that this game is a very casual game. Telling everybody to go with a single gear set unless they want to be bad makes you sound like an elitist. Advising that zerker gear is more useful is one thing. But when a lot of people openly say that non zerkers have no place in groups and are terrible players, it starts to be a problem.

If you really want some healing power, splashing in some clestial pieces is probably a better bet than getting clerics.
Celestial will at least give you some crit damage, while also bolstering your thoughness and vit by a bit, so you can dish out some damage. You will be highly reliant on having those might and bloodlust stacks to boost your power, tho, preferably with some external source of power(read: warriors) cause the base power on celestial is rather low.

Obtena.7952:

Nick.6972:

Is it just me or is this “Zerker only or leave” thing only on official forums?
Almost 1000 hour total playtime and no one has ever asked me to ping my gear.
Weird.

Pretty much, because it’s the only place that gives competitive PVE players a voice. Gear matters little when it comes to successful PVE encounters. We all know this.

This is exactly right.

icewyrm.5038:

akamon.2769:

if

I bolded the important part. If the party doesn’t need the extra support provided by clerics, then by all means swap gear or build.

Here’s news for you – I don’t run my guardian everywhere I go, or use it to fill all roles, because other classes can do it better.

Thieve’s are best at blinds and stealth, engies (imo) at vuln stacking and AoE on greater than 3 targets, warriors are the best class for group damage buffs, mesmers and guards are the best classes for reflects (and AoE stability among other things). Guardians also happen to be the best healing/sustain support in the game along with their other uses.

If I’m running an AC P1 or P3 and we’ve got some lowbies in the group (possibly using weapons which aren’t well suited for it, or who aren’t familiar with the dungeon), I’ll often swap to my ele just for conjure frostbow on burrows. We’ve probably all done that before, right? Same thing.

Of course all of the classes have strengths in different parts of the game, but for the most part this is what PVE boils down to.

If the party doesn’t need anything in particular, I’ll just bring what I feel like bringing unless the party objects. Lot’s of the time though I don’t have that luxury, and so I bring what the party seems to lack for the given situation.

If I feel the party needs some extra support via boons/heals, I slap on my clerics gear and trait to keep the party up in the situations that require it. I can’t in any way imagine how you’d find this objectionable or unreasonable.

well that’s the whole point of my post. if they can do it, so let them. what i don’t get it people always telling Guardians to play warrior instead if they want to DPS…. or saying that Guardians shouldn’t spec for damage at all. this isn’t directed to you personally, by the way. just in general.

i personally only play Guardian as my main because i have limited amount of time to play so i can’t invest as much into the other classes and tbh, the other classes don’t entice me as much. i enjoy playing my Guard. so it’s a personal choice for me. and within those parameters, i do what i can as a Guard. and over the past weekend, i’ve been in groups where my setup wasn’t optimal for myself AND the group, so guess what? i too knew to switch my armor to be able to help myself and the group out more. i’m not so thick to only stick to one thing.

so essetianlly, we do the same. the only difference is how much offense vs defense vs support our personal thresholds are going to take is all. adn i HAVE been ni fights where i believe that even full cleric’s wouldn’t have saved us. undeniably, a high healing power, support specced Guard can do wonders in PvP / WvW, though.

i’m glad you’re able to switch classes at will. that’s a “luxury” i do not have. and i’m not complaining, please note this. i never claimed that i can do other things better than other classes. i never said “DPS Guard is the best OMG don’t play anythign else”. so for me personally at least, is that i am doing the best i can with what i can offer.

but i am just not a fan of this whole debate of zerkers or nothing.

Aza.2105:

Obtena.7952:

Nick.6972:

Is it just me or is this “Zerker only or leave” thing only on official forums?
Almost 1000 hour total playtime and no one has ever asked me to ping my gear.
Weird.

Pretty much, because it’s the only place that gives competitive PVE players a voice. Gear matters little when it comes to successful PVE encounters. We all know this.

This is exactly right.

We’re not talking about successful runs, we’re talking about efficient runs. Sure some Clerics could successfully run arah p4 in ~1hr 30mins ( if they can beat Simin), but we’d rather finish it in ~40. And we’re trying to enlighten others to be able to have fast, easy, fun runs.

If a group of these non-zerker builds were to do the same dungeon tour my guild does, they would finish hours after we finished.

OK, so for all the people agreeing in this thread that Cleric’s is kitten and ’zerkers is best… exactly how far into ’zerkers do I need to go to be “acceptable” in a dungeon group?

I’ll preface that by saying I really, really don’t want to go 100% full ‘zerk. I don’t have the desire to completely change my builds, and I certainly don’t have the funds to change out my entire gear setup (heck, some of my characters don’t even have full exotics yet because I just don’t have the money for it).

I don’t want to be a useless burden either, though, especially since I have no idea what I’m doing dungeon-wise, since I’ve never done a dungeon before sans the LS ones. (which are probably nothing compared to the regular dungeons except maybe the Aether TA one, which was hell every time I attempted it though I did finally end up finishing it >.>) I’ll watch some videos beforehand, but I’m sure there’s some aspects that you only get by actually playing and not from videos, so I don’t expect to be “pro” even after doing my research.

So I’m looking for the minimum amount of DPS / ‘zerker stuff to not be a burden, but avoid completely altering the builds I enjoy or breaking the bank. I’d say the order of stuff I’d be looking to change would go something like jewelry > armor > runes > weapons / sigils > traits (from most willing to least, with jewelry being the first thing I’d probably be changing and traits being what I would really rather avoid changing if at all possible).

Or even better, just give me an idea of what stats I need to shoot for to obtain “worthwhile” DPS and I can puzzle it out on my own.

laharl.8435:

If a group of these non-zerker builds were to do the same dungeon tour my guild does, they would finish hours after we finished.

… and so?? You see the problem here is very fundamental and is based on an unreasonable exception by a certain group of like-minded players. I will waste my time trying to explain it to you because I think it’s worth it at this point, but I don’t think you will buy into it:

Everyone gets value from playing the game. Everyone is different so everyone values different things when they play and by different amounts. It’s common for a group of people who share values to ‘attract’ each other and play together. The problem starts when Group A try to assimilate Group B with non-compelling arguments that Group A’s values are morally superior to Group B’s. That falls apart when all players, regardless of their values STILL get the experience they are looking for from the game. That’s what is happening here.

No one will ever be able to convince a person that doesn’t value efficient runs that the way they play the game is ‘wrong’ when that person can still play and feel accomplished regardless of their gear. It’s the most absurd concept in gaming I’ve ever seen. I can only assume it’s some throwback from people migrating over from WoW. GW2 isn’t WoW, it doesn’t cater to competitive PVE’s AT ALL. If it bugs you that much that ‘amateur’ players cramp your style ingame by extending a dungeon a few minutes, you should really re-think your motivation to play entirely.

Go Full zerker trinkets with knights armor. And TBH, your build should be one of the 10/25/0/x/25 variants. That is where your DPS will grow a ton.

I like to stand at the bottom of the stairs and reflect the harpy fractals traps onto the backside of my friends. It’s hilarious.

obal.3218:

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What not to do:
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Ignore good builds and strategies and call people elitists that use and preach them to help others
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Wolfex.4968:

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Telling everybody to go with a single gear set unless they want to be bad makes you sound like an elitist. Advising that zerker gear is more useful is one thing. But when a lot of people openly say that non zerkers have no place in groups and are terrible players, it starts to be a problem.

Someone give this man a Nobel Peace Prize! I was about to respond to obal’s post with something similar to what I quoted off Wolfex, but this is quite well said so no need. Though, I would extend the gear part into total build.

Also, well said Obtena. Well said.

These pve guys get aggravated really easy

Never had a problem with running Cleric’s gear in 28/38’ths. I should mention I only run with other WvW scrubs too.

Using berserker builds doesn’t really save that much time, and can be easily offset if they are played by bad players.

PvP players usually have a lot more in depth knowledge about their profession, and a good player in any portion of the game will most likely perform well in another part of the game too.

I know a pretty good guardian who uses cleric/pvt gear and a 0.0.30.30.10 build in fractals, he was 70+ pre patch, fairly high now. Perhaps his runs could have been quicker as zerker.. But the end result was still a completion, and every time I run with him things are perfectly smooth sailing, just a little slower.

As long as the five you set out to chill out and have a relaxing time and don’t specifically want to run a set amount of dungeons in a set amount of time… Then the anything goes.

But as soon as the rest of your party consists of people who want to get the most done in the least amount of time with no downtime or messing around.. You are doing them a disservice by not running zerker.

2 totally different ways of playing the game.. both of which are valid but it is rude to waste people’s time If they are not of the same opinion as you.

fadeaway.2807:

2 totally different ways of playing the game.. both of which are valid but it is rude to waste people’s time If they are not of the same opinion as you.

Equally as rude to rush people, degrading their game experience if they are not of the same opinion. It works BOTH ways.

Absolutely. The trick is to find people who like the same thing as you. And if one night you fancy a change, try some different people or suggest your friends all trial a different approach

On this we can agree. If people just stick to playing with groups of like-minded players, threads like this would be considered ridiculous.

that’s the whole point though – what i see constantly is people who enjoy a certain type of game play complaining about other another type of gameplay. it happens both ways. or triple ways. multi-ways. whatever it is.. that’s what you get when you choose to go with the LFG tool. that’s what happens when you choose to go with people whom you don’t know a SINGLE thing about apart from their in game name and what race and sex they are.

Obtena, i think i see where you’re coming from, but don’t forget, this happens both ways. there are plenty of people who put down those who wish to complete things faster as well.

at the end of the day, if you want to wear cleric’s and run dungeons, then run with people who don’t mind you wearing cleric’s in dungeons. and vice versa, yes it works both ways, if you want to run zerkers and only zerkers in dungeons, then run with people who only run zerkers and only zerkers as well.

i’ve said this too many times, but i’ll say it again. don’t label people. they do nothing for the community. we all have different preferences and there will ALWAYS be people who don’t share the same view or feelings as you. so go surround yourself with those who do. get to know them. gw2 has an extremely positive social aspect, you just need to want to see it.